I have a feeling this will be an interesting trade deadline.
Instead of just putting everything into the comments field, I’m going to put any and all rumors I find here.
Also, on our twitter account, I will be “retweeting” rumors from the Twitter accounts of Buster Olney, Ken Rosenthal, Jon Heyman, etc… I will put some of those in here, but you can see them in our twitter feed on the left hand column.
Feel free to post anything you find in the comments field.
Most Recent Updates will continue after the jump.
Thursday (2:48pm)
Rosenthal says its Happ, Gose and SS Jonathan Villar. An absolute steal.
Thursday (1:52pm)
Jim Salisbury says his sources say Gose and Happ are definites
Thursday (1:13pm)
We are getting $11 million in the deal. We are not picking up the 2012 option (yet).
Thursday (1:00pm)
He’s in!!!! They just announced on SportsCenter that Roy Oswalt will accept the trade to the Phils..
Thursday (11:42am)
Rosenthal says no Singleton in deal. “Hearing A) Singleton not in deal and B) #Philliesgetting less than 12M, though number is in that range. Educated guess: 10-11M”
Thursday (11:02am)
He’s scoping it out… I’m thinking this gets done…
Jim Salisbury: Oswalt has been asking questions about the lay of the land in Phila, has received texts from Lidge, people close to situation say
Thursday (10:42am)
On the timing…
Jayson Stark: No formal deadline for Oswalt to OK trade to Phillies. But he & Happ scheduled to start tomorrow. So both teams prefer answer today.
Can’t imagine the Phils would trot Happ out there and risk something happening to him. The other thing at play here is Oswalt is ONE win away from tying Joe Niekro for the franchise record for wins. You have to imagine he wants that record.
Thursday (10:06am)
Ken Rosenthal: Source: Deal is 3-for-1. Happ in. Astros would pay “very significant” part of Oswalt’s remaining salary, which is over 23M.
Happ, Worley and Cosart maybe? If it’s 3 players, and Astros are throwing a lot of money our way, you have to think that 3rd player in a significant one. Cosart, Colvin or Singleton. I’d prefer Singleton, let us keep the pitching.
Thursday (9:49am)
Jon Heyman: hearing astros are paying a lot of $ to philly in oswalt deal. he has $24 mil left thru ’11.
I would imagine that this means that we are giving them a pretty big prospect haul. Maybe Singleton or Cosart could go.
Thursday (9:36am)
A name popping up for the Phillies today is AL-HR leader Jose Bautista. I can’t imagine this deal happening because the price would obviously be very high, it’s pretty clear Bautista is having a fluky season (he’s 29, previous HR high is 16), and you aren’t going to trade for the AL HR leader and then throw him on the bench once Utley comes back. I guess they could be thinking he could be a RH OF next year when Werth leaves, but where does that leave Dom Brown?
Thursday Morning (8:50am)
Well good morning!
About a million outlets are reporting that the Phillies and Astros have agreed to the parameters of a Roy Oswalt deal. It is in his hands now whether or not he wants to come.
While some on this board are against such a move because Oswalt “doesn’t want to be here” – consider this: He has the choice now. If he accepts the deal, then he DOES want to be here. And he should be given the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. I also suggest you read Ken Bland’s excellent post in the comments field on the matter. He’s an excellent pitcher, one of the best in the NL. And if you can’t get extremely excited about a Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt trio – then I suggest you go buy a Robert Person jersey and root for the Mets.
As for what the deal is, the very reliable Jon Heyman says J.A. Happ, Vance Worley and 2 lower level pitchers. Provided those lower level pitchers aren’t Jarred Cosart or Brody Colvin, that would be a slam dunk deal for the Phillies. Every report I’ve read says Jon Singleton is not in play, and I truly doubt Cosart or Colvin is either.
I will continue to update this thread as new information becomes available. Right now it looks like a waiting game though. The ball is in Roy’s court, we’ll see what he does.
Wednesday Night (10:10pm)
Olney on Twitter: Heard this: A third team that was involved in the Phillies-Oswalt talks has backed out. Philly-Houston now dealing head to head
Heyman on Twitter: phillies remain favorites for oswalt. yankees checked in on roy only once. but its always hard to rule them out entirely.
Rosenthal on Twitter: (Aaron) Cook could go; #Phillies among interested.
(10:23pm)
Jayson Stark says talks between the Astros and Phillies have intensified.
Officials of multiple teams that have been speaking with the two clubs said Wednesday they believed the Phillies and Astros were close enough to agreeing on the players who would go to Houston that the players were no longer viewed as a major obstacle. The Astros would receive pitcher J.A. Happ, plus prospects. But the teams were said to be “not in total agreement” yet on the prospects. However, one source said there was still “a large gulf” between the teams on how large a portion of the $23 million remaining on Oswalt’s contract the Astros would be willing to pay…Nevertheless, it was also clear the Phillies weren’t particularly confident that they were going to be able to trade for Oswalt themselves. They made contact with the Cubs about Lilly and with about both Jake Westbrook and Fausto Carmona. And they had a scout in Cleveland to watch Carmona’s start against the Yankees.
Heyman: “houson’s FOX 26 reporting #Astros, #Phillies have deal for Oswalt. hed still have to approve deal, assuming true.”
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/19802101656
like someone said earlier it looks like we are pretty much bidding against ourselves at this point so hopefully we won’t have to give much up besides Happ, Singleton, and midlevel guys….
There are some people who are coming across with what I’d call naive opinions on this Roy Oswalt deal. This is a complicated trading environment in which we live in modern times. Scoop driven reporters competing for an edge as if nobody will respect them if they don’t get stories first, ballclubs trying to deal million dollar contracts and get superior if not equal value. Men with families being uprooted and facing new environments in which to raise kids with the prospect of it being short term. It’s a mess, and involves a lot of posturing along the way.
Comments are made throughout the process by all parties involved. Some emotional, some with guided purpose. Reporters tripping over each other means nothing is secret. Some of the feelings can change with the swing of a bat. But particularly at the accomplished player level, with a no trade, or 10 amd 5 protection, you might as well have Ken Rosenthal and John Heyman doing the trading since every step of the way is so public.
Roy Oswalt is indisputably a very good pitcher. He would figure to have 3-5 good years left, defined as 15-18 wins, 3.5 or less ERA. Real solid number 2 guy in a championshi team rotation, and quite possibly the guy you could count on as your number 1.
There is no question he’s good. Questioning how good might be plausible. And in the current economic environment, not too overpaid for what he’s done, or what he will do.
The guy is 32-33, and after a solid decade in Houston, not too outrageously far from his roots in Mississippi, which has more of a common denominator culturally than other parts of the country, the guy is tired of losing.
When word first broke of the Phils being interested in him, the Phils were headed south, barely in a position mathematically to get excited about, and performing as poorly offensively as any Houston club Oswalt ever threw for.
If, and I emphasize if, he was the one that actually implied he wanted no part of the Philadelphia Phillies, all those factors above could have been seen as valid reasons for him to be part of the negotiation scheme and make it harder for Houston to trade him to the Phils. And there is no reason whatsoever the guy shouldn’t be seen as justified for preferring the Cardinals. Culturally, its a lot closer to what he’s known. Geographically, its closer to home, and pitching in the same division, he’d be closer to home more often if he hose not to relocate his family. They have as much chance, if not better than the Phils at winning. They have a deeper pitching staff that would not put as much pressure on him.
It appears that a deal is done, pending Oswalt’s approval. Nobody except the Oswalt family has any business having an opinion on whether he should accept a trade. If the parameters of the deal are now done, and its time for Houston to present Oswalt with a specific option, he needs to seriously consider if it’s right for him. Players have worked long and hard for that privelege on an individual basis, and as a collective union. I see that as right and proper in terms of unique talent, and human rights.
Chances are, Roy Oswalt, from the little I know of him will take the deal and be a Phillie. And be happy to be here. And for any fan to begrudge him for something he may or may not have said 2 weeks ago that might well have been a negotiating tactic is in my opinion ridiculous, but to each their own. And if Oswalt does decide this deal isn’t right for him, I applaud him for having decided he wanted to hange his situation, but determining that the one offered to him was not what he wanted.
Well stated, as usual, Ken B.
I’m personally of the belief that no-trade clauses are B.S. Players in all sports are getting paid 100x that of the average American to play a game. Every player should be honored that a team wants to trade for them as it says that said team thinks that the player could improve their chances to win. Players should willingly pack their bags and go wherever needed. I understand that players don’t want to uproot their families or don’t like leaving their “comfort zone”, but to balk at potentially going to a team that went to the World Series the past two years because of its’ “harsh media” shows lack of character and determination to win. If Oswalt says no then he’ll be coined a “loser” in the eyes of true baseball fans.
David Murphy says the Astros have been scouting Lakewood – so the other pitcher(s) could be Jon Pettibone, Colby Shreve or Trevor May. Hopefully not May.
If Oswalt says no then he’ll be coined a “loser” in the eyes of true baseball fans.>>
I guess they never put he was a true Baseball fan on my gravestone. But it is nice to share board space with someone qualified to judge true babseball fans versus those that aren’t.
Now I’ll break some news to you. Character and desire based on alleged opinions of the media is absurd. Character and desire are relavant only to the extent that they effect performance. Roy Halladay has character because he works hard. Not because he wanted to play here. Wanting to play here gave him marketability and popularity.
If Roy Oswalt read your post, do you think he’d learn from it, and behave, or laugh at it?
Kindly supply the link where Oswalt or a “source close to Oswalt” said anything about a harsh media in Philly being a negative or a dealbreaker . Until then, I will continue to believe that no such thing was said, or implied because I find it impossible that a grown man in his early 30s would say something that ridiculous. Even more surprising would be if he actually let it effect his thinking.
I get my minor league stuff over at Phuture Phillies, not to promote another site Pete I am here a lot too. You have to see the outrage from people in the comments over there. I just don’t get it. Do people really think RAJ can pull the fleece over Wade like he did Shapiro in Cleveland. If we can can get Oswalt and money for Happ, Worley, and a Rizzotti, Pettitbone, Shreve, Ramirez, Aumont, James type I would be ecstatic! But if we have to give up one of Singleton, Cosart, Colvin, or May so be it. You have to give to get. It just makes me laugh what people think will get a trade done like the GM we are dealing with just came strolling out from a sewer that he lived in for 5 years and into Rube’s office with his pants down. Hilarious!
“The rumor that has been going around is that the Phillies would get some money along with Oswalt — the figure I saw was $8 million — and that in exchange they’d send back J.A. Happ and prospects Matt Rizzotti and Vance Worley.”
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/some-chatter-while-we-wait-for-roy-oswalts-decision.php
Matt Gelb of the Inquirer reported,
“one or two of the Lakewood pitchers could go: From Jarred Cosart to Brody Colvin to Trevor May or Josh Zeid. Jonathan Singleton has been mentioned as a possible player to move, but the Phillies have insisted before he be kept out of talks”
I would rather give up Singleton than any of the the first three pitchers mentioned…..
I’d rather keep Colvin and Cosart over Singleton, not May.
But it seems more and more like the 3rd player is significant.
probably not Cosart, he hasn’t been pitching.
hopefully May.
Happ, Worley and May and getting a lot of salary relief would be an great, great deal.
Ken Rosenthal: “Deal is 3-for-1. Happ in.#Astros would pay “very significant” part of Oswalt’s remaining salary”
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19828125404
keep an eye on this post – I’m updating stuff, but you don’t see it on the home page. you only see it after you click through.
Thanks, Pete.
I would love it if the deal was Happ, Worley, and just one more player. No matter who it is. It is so funny though how much tension there is on this decision. Now I know how Cleveland fans feel with Lebron. It’s the Decision 2.0. Maybe not as big, but for us it is.
Roy Oswalt: “I’m taking my talents to Souf Philly”
Ken, maybe it’s just me but I know that when I played organized sports growing up I wanted to play for a winner. I didn’t care who was on the team, who the coach was, how far I had to travel, etc I just wanted to win. If a person is content to stay on a losing team instead of going to a team that has been to the WS 2 years in a row and is poised to make a deep playoff run again (especially with that person’s help) then I think it’s fair to categorize them a loser am I not? He can choose to stay with the Astros and not make the playoffs for the remainder of his career or hope that maybe they can work out a deal with a winning team in the south in the offseason or go the current NL Champs. The choice is any easy one for anyone who cares about the game and cares about winning.
So while in your eyes my opinion may be wrong or not the norm, but I’m curious to see how many people in baseball would feel the same way.
Should we start calling the Astros our AAA affiliate?
Pete I was just laughing hysterical at my desk just now at that. That would be classic! I hope he does that.
UPDATE II: Jayson Stark emails that he’s confirmed some other details. One is that Houston would get three players back — J.A. Happ and two prospects. Nobody is revealing names of the prospects, but Houston has pressed hard for Phillies’ best hitting prospect now that Domonic Brown is in the big leagues, Class A first baseman Jonathan Singleton.
Stark also heard from one strong source that the Astros offered to pay $12 million of the $23-plus million left on Oswalt’s contract through next year. No confirmation that this is the exact figure.
Pete and Adam on the mark…
About the trade, I’m not sure how the “payroll certainty” Phils handle this type of move. Not just next year, but moving forward it has them committed to another big ticket pitcher. Even if Oswalt is gone in ’12, I don’t see a farm arm ready to step in- so they will have to pay top dollar to fill his slot. Happ is not as good, but was a bargain rotation guy for years to come.
The biggest thing about these last few trades is that the Phillies are giving up roster ready players they control cheaply (Happ, Taylor, Drabek) for big ticket stars. It makes sense from a talent/wins perspective, but really cuts into the number of bargain players they can field. When you hold onto a Dom Brown it is only partly because you hope he will be a star. The other important part is that he will give you bargain production for 4 year allowing you to spend dollars on other positions of need.
But maybe they are not as locked into a certain payroll structure as they let on?
Roy Oswalt: “I’m taking my talents to Souf Philly”
Amazing
No Singleton. Hopefully, no Cosart either.
Former Phillies on the Stros: Myers, Figueroa and soon to be Happ, Worley and X. That’s a lot of talent.
don’t forget Michael Bourn, Pedro Feliz and Jason Michaels
But maybe they are not as locked into a certain payroll structure as they let on?
>>
Seems to me that they are locked into a player budget amount, at least from what they reveal, as opposed to a budget.
I might be wrong, but I think part of their strategy is to lock some guys in for contracts that combine fair value that might be tradable. Not necessarily specifically them, but Blanton and Victorino come to mind. And it’s not to say that their guesses are always right.
It’s interesting thatpeople are speculating so much on who’d leaving when seemingly such a major stumbling block as Oswalt’s approval is lingering.
Dan – thanks for the response. Let’s let it go at differing views. People are probably more interested in whether the trade goes through, who its for and how it effects things.
When you hold onto a Dom Brown it is only partly because you hope he will be a star. The other important part is that he will give you bargain production for 4 year allowing you to spend dollars on other positions of need.
Very true, tk76. The tough part about prospects is knowing what you will get, from whom you will get it, and when you will get it.
Will what we get from Brown be enough to keep us winning (our division, in the playoffs, another championship) for the next few years while he is cheaply under our control?
Who between Cosart and Colvin will be the better big league pitcher and, if the answer is they will both be very good for us, when will either one or both of them start winning games for us?
There are no easy answers and in our case we have crossed over to being a built-to-win-now ball club. You certainly want to try to keep it going as long as you possibly can but do you want to let your chance to win a championship slip away for a year or two in an effort to retain your promising prospects?
I completely understand what you are saying and I wonder when it might come back to bite us. It’s just not that easy to make that call and to balance things when you have a club that has been to the WS two years in a row and looks poised to make another run at it.
I’ll take a guess at something involved in Oswalt’s decision. I think he looks at the deal more favorably if the Phils extend him by minimally exercising the option on the 16 mil for 12. The Phils might turn around and say okay, but if we can soften the no trade clause to at least give us some flexibility. Based on the structure, the Phils may or may not see 16 mil for a quality starter as excessive, particularly since they won’t pay all of his 10 and 11 salaries. I’m sure compromises will be explored if not reached. I doubt it went this far if Roy was so opposed to playing for the club.
I think the quality of player we give up may be considered too much. The more we give up, I suspect the more money Houston gives us. That money may prove helpful in other ways.
Taylor, Carrasco, Marson, Knapp, Drabek, D’arnaud, and Donald, Cardenas. All guys we haver recently parted with in the RAJ era. Cardenas was Gillick though. Only D’arnaud is playing well. Drabek had a no hitter, but is in AA and is not looking like the “Ace” he was looking like last year. The point is we gotta give Rube credit for atleast going for it every chance he has while holding onto clearly the best prospect in Brown.
Sure, Singleton, Colvin, and Cosart could be All Stars, but they are in Low A not even High A Clearwater yet! They also could get hurt in the next 3-4 years or be complete busts. If it is one of them we gave up then so be it.
Richard Justice is a veteran writer for the Houston Chronicle. In addition to other things, he thinks Oswalt takes the deal.
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2010/07/astros_awaiting.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Fsportsjustice+%28SportsJustice%29
All this negativity that seems to be coming from Oswalt worries me a bit. I understand that it’s tough decision with moving his family, but all I’ve heard is how he’s reluctant to play in Philly and now he doesn’t like the ballpark (even though he’s pitched well there). Comeon dude. I like the pitcher, but his head needs to be in the right place if he comes here.
jaysonst:
Roy Oswalt plans to OK deal to #Phillies, source says. But deal not official yet. More to come on ESPN.com #trades [via Twitter]
we gotta give Rube credit for at least going for it every chance he has while holding onto clearly the best prospect in Brown.
Yeah. There was a lot of debate on this site (and I’m sure amongst the Phils brass and minor league development people) last year concerning Taylor vs. Brown being included in the Lee deal.
Many people felt that we should have kept Taylor because he was much closer to major league ready and somewhat easier to project because he was further along/higher up the organizational ladder, while Brown was an athlete with a lot of potential that needed to translate his ability into becoming a good baseball player, with many people not too sure that he would be able to accomplish that. Based on how things have played out so far since then, you’d have to say that Amaro made the right decision in trading Taylor and keeping Brown.
As great as it would be to keep on winning while simultaneously being able to hold on to all of our promising prospects, it’s just not realistic. I know it’s simplistic but we just have to hope when we are trading prospects in a deal to help the club that we know our prospects well enough (at least better than the other guy) so that we keep the ones that will make a difference for us at the major league level more often than not.
sorry for links…copy/pasted…
he’s reluctant to play in Philly and now he doesn’t like the ballpark (even though he’s pitched well there).>>
Yo, Zach. Let me offer you a totally different interpretation.
I’ll take liberties and assume you lifted the doesn’t like the ballpark from the Stark tweet an hour ago. Exactly what the tweet said was “I (Stark) heard” he doesn’t like the ballpark. How dependable is that? Not even a sources told me attachment. I don’t mean to be disrespectful towrd Jayson Stark, but I saw that an hour ago and chose not to post it because it seemed so conjectural.
And along the same lines, not working as a reporter in the social media times we live in, is it that unfair to ask how reasonable it seems for Stark, Olney, Rosenthal and countless others to be looking for any angle?
My own personal take is at this point, it’s a business decision. Not a ballpark, or cultural deal.
My source is common sense. All the side stuff would have negated a prospective deal from reaching this far. Oswalt has known for close to 2 weeks this was a decent possibility. I think he’d have killed it a while ago if that side stuff was a dealbreaker.
jaysonst:
Roy Oswalt plans to OK deal to #Phillies, source says. But deal not official yet. More to come on ESPN.com #trades [via Twitter]>>
good work, SABR. Wish you wrote more often.
All I will say in closing is that I hope the front office has the stamina to still examine the club with the non waiver trade deadline running another 48 hours.
Whether we need and can afford anything else, like a reliever maybe I leave to them in full confidence.
Some interesting facts from Buster Olney’s recet Blog:
Oswalt in Houston
Justin Ray from ESPN Stats & Information adds this section, regarding Oswalt’s time in Houston:
With Roy Oswalt likely on his way out of Houston, it’s worth recounting his importance to the organization he’s spent his entire career with. Even while on winning teams in the first half of the previous decade, Oswalt spent much of his tenure with Houston out of the national spotlight. Hopefully a few of these notes can offer perspective on his place not only in the Astros franchise but also in baseball history in the state of Texas.
Getty ImagesRoy Oswalt, if gone from Houston, will leave quite a legacy.
• Oswalt has 143 wins since being called up to the majors with Houston in 2001. In that span, no other Astro has won more than 59 games (Wandy Rodriguez). His total of 143 victories since the beginning of the 2001 season is 28 more than any other pitcher in the National League (second is Greg Maddux, 115), and three more than any other pitcher who did it entirely for one organization (Mark Buehrle, 140).
• Oswalt started Game 3 of the 2005 World Series — the first World Series game played in Texas. Between the Colt .45′s/Astros and Rangers, there were 12,519 major league baseball games played (regular season and playoffs) between the two Texas franchises before Oswalt started that game Oct. 25, 2005.
• In Oswalt’s seven postseason starts, the Astros went 5-2. Oswalt’s postseason record is 4-0. Nolan Ryan’s was 1-2. No pitcher has recorded more postseason outs in Astros history than Oswalt, with 134. Ryan, the man synonymous with baseball in Texas, recorded 123 playoff outs in an Astros uniform.
• With more than 1,932 innings pitched as an Astro, only Larry Dierker and Joe Niekro have thrown more innings for the franchise. Since 2001, no other Astro has 1,000 innings pitched. The two who are closest to Oswalt in that span, Rodriguez and Wade Miller, combined are still more than 350 innings short of Oswalt’s total.
• Oswalt won 20 games twice — in 2004 and 2005. Ryan never won 20 games as an Astro. Mike Scott did it once, as did J.R. Richard and Dierker. Only one other pitcher in team history won 20 games twice: Niekro. There have been 12 19-plus-win seasons by pitchers in team history, and Oswalt has a quarter of them.
• The Astros have won three playoff series in their team’s somewhat meager history. Oswalt won two of the clinching games in those series, both of which came on the road: Game 5 of the 2004 NLDS against Atlanta and Game 6 of the 2005 NLCS in St. Louis — the game after Albert Pujols‘ soul-crushing home run off Brad Lidge. Game 6 of that series was the last game played in the old Busch Stadium.
Last offseason, another Roy was traded after being the most important player for his franchise for about a decade. One can argue that Oswalt means far more to the Astros than Roy Halladay did to the Blue Jays — his successes in the postseason gave Houston baseball fans some of their fondest memories. Now, it’s likely that the two men named Roy, trapped in baseball mediocrity for the past few years, will be on the same staff in Philadelphia.
Thanks for all the great e-mails and messages about Amelia on Wednesday, folks.
And today will be better than yesterday.
Who’s going to Houston besides Happ and Worley?
Happ, Worley and Gose?
Good stuff, Bob.
Happ, Worley and Gose would be IDEAL
Pete,
Happ, Worley and Gose for Oswalt + $11M definitely makes up for the Lee mistake. We get the best rotation for this year’s run and at least next year. Can’t beat that.
Tony,
Would be hard to argue with that. Gotta get the prospects confirmed though!
I would like to take this time to remind EVERYONE that if the season ended today, we would NOT be in the playoffs!
Gargano on 610WIP says its Singleton in place of Gose…
mlbtraderumors is still kicking around names and saying we’re interested in Tejada and Bloomquist, so maybe that $11 mil from Houston means we’re not done yet and we could still end up getting an infielder and/or reliever as well.
The KMart Bluelight special is on. Today is the last day you can root for the Washington Nats for a while.
And they lead the Braves, 4-2 in the 4th.
Do I hear 2.5?
Buck Showalter got the O’s gig. Commendable choice. Miguel Tejada deal would now figure to be an extra voice to get through.
I know this is goofy but it always stuck in my head and it pops up whenever I see Buck Showalter’s name.
After Showalter was fired by the Yankees, I read an article that suggested that after having a Bucky (Dent) for one year followed by a Stump (Merrill) for one year and a Buck (Showalter) for four years that the next Yankees manager would be named Stumpy.
It ended up being Joe Torre.
I’m still guessing Singleton is in the deal.
Happ, Worley, Gose AND getting $11 million would be a joke.
But it IS Ed Wade…
The $11M is the biggest surprise of the day for me…
I do not have any problem giving up good prospects who are several years away. The Phils need to make the most out of their chance to win now.
My earlier comments more more focussed on the “Joe Banner” side of things. Assuming the team has a “salary cap” there is major trickle down effects when you upgrade a cheap/solid player with a big ticket/great one. You can ameliorate this in the short term ny the $’s kicked in by the Astro’s and Jays- but it will hit them hard in 2 years, which is still in their contending window.
Say you had 9M per yr committed to your #3/#4 starters in Blanton and Happ.
Now you have 20M per year comitted to Oswalt/Blanton.
That is a major upgrade, but if you now have to deal away Victorino and his 7M and replace him on the field with Gillies and still find a way to clear another 5M. Does that make you a better or worse team overall? Maybe it does, but it is more complicated then just saying Oswalt is an upgrade from Happ and prospects don’t help you now.
I don’t like Oswalt but a Happ, Worley, Gose and cash is a good deal.
ny should read by. Maybe I have NY always on my mind.
If the deal is for the reported prospects you have to do it if you ar ethe Phils. But I have a feeling this won’t work out like we all hope. Here is hoping I am wrong.
Rosenthal just tweeted its Happ, Gose, and Jonathan Villar…that can’t be right, can it?
Jurnee-
Sure it can!
I mean, we are kind of forgetting that Happ could be a quality starter for 4-5 years. Usually you don’t get that out of any deal. Gose and Villar have nice upside to them.
Ummm…is Ruben cool again?
What is Villar’s ceiling? An above average glove with the ability to hit a little?
On Villar:
Toolsy SS who is currently hitting for a good average and stealing a ton of bases. Has a TON of errors.
I’d say his upside is an average all-around MLB SS.
No, he is not cool again. He gives out bad contracts. And while every one gives him credit for the Halladay deal, we have to realize that, that was a no brainer. Any Gm would of gotten that deal done.
Rosenthal tweeted deal is done!
Oswalt and $11 million for Happ, Gose and Villar????
IT’S A BLOODBATH!!!
Wow.
Pete,
I’m not sure it’s necessarily fair to lump them all together, but I’d like to see your analysis of the net gains/losses from the Halladay, Lee, and Oswalt deals.
Like Rosenthal pointed out, why didn’t we just keep Lee to begin with?!? (And I’m aware that we would only be guaranteed Lee through this year, while we now have Oswalt through next year and maybe the year after).
I just wanna make sure. Villar IS the second prospect?
I agree with Rosenthal, 100%.
jeez I may not like the fact that they went after him but RAJ deserves a golden ski mask on this one. pure thievery. cant believe they agreed to pay that much of his salary. Happ, Gose?? r u kidding me.
unreal. Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels… wow. i’m taking this all in, slowly.
You know, it could of been Halladay, Lee, Oswalt and Hamels. Just sayin.
Hey Pete, Gose or Gillies?
RAJ is impressive. he knows how to get deals done. Even if not every trade or signing is to our liking, the fact that he can close deals of his liking gives him a leg up over GM’s who swing for the fences and miss. Remember all of those dark years were the Phils were left at the alter by numerous big name FA’s that were playing the Phils for leverage in negotiations with higher profile teams?
Also, getting all these millions back from the Oswalt and Halladay deals is one way for the Phils to get around their self imposed salary cap- at least in the short term.
in one week we’ve seen a 7 gm win streak, closed the gap in NL east to 3.5GB, call up for Dom Brown and traded for the NL’s best available pitchers.
pretty good week.
Derek Jeter had 56 errors in his only season in the south atlantic league so i don’t know how much we should buy into Villar’s defense. Still, Worley or Singleton definitely has way more value than Villar! looking forward to oswalt’s first start tomorrow!
Why was Houston paying a dime of his salary? Why not just keep him? I would have considered it a fair trade for Happ and the prospects. I don’t understand why Houston was willing to giv eup so much cash to get rid of him. Nothing they got back will match his performance. So if you are going to essentially pay for him next year anyway, why trade him. You could have traded him next year and got as much or more. I don’t get it.
2 Dope Royz and a Cadillac
.Roy Story 2
.2 Roys 1 Mound
.Royz in the Hood
Some of you people on here just like to whine no matter what. Ruben you agree with Rosenthal 100% and it could be Lee, Oswalt, Halladay. Sure, but it isn’t and we finally have a GM that gets things done, and when he makes a mistake he tries his hardest to make up for it. He knows he messed up with Lee, but at the time he felt he had to do it and I’m okay with it. Blanton was coming off a nice season and he rewarded him with a 3 year deal. Get over it! The guy is trying his best out there and doing everything in his power all the while fleecing these GMs on almost every deal, but people still wanna cry about Lee.
Sure he didn’t give Lee a chance to explain the fact that he might have signed a deal after this year with the Phils, but Ruben didn’t want to take that chance. Move on!
We have the best team in baseball on paper and I am excited to see how it plays on the field!
Well said Richie. I cannot think of a deal RAJ has made where we thought he gave up too much. And he has now aquired arguably the three best pitchers over the last 3 years in the league. Over the last three years, Halladay, Oswalt, and Lee stats would rank up there with the stats of any other pitcher over that same period, perhaps except the long haired dude in San Fran. To get all those guys and never overpay is quite an achievement. I am a big RAJ fan.
Love me sexy!
Houston flips Gose to TOR?
looks like Braves have shot their wad for the year. Drop 2 of three to Nats, 2 of 3 to Florida, and probably get swept in Cincy this weekend. Phils may be in first by Sunday night.
Toronto gets Gose for Brett Wallace.