Huh!, you say. Well according to Peter Vescy Cheeks and Randolph didn’t have the horrible relationship it was made out to be in Portland. And if that is the case Randolph does kind of, sort of fill the low post scoring need for the Sixers.
“If Cheeks stays put, look for him to pester Philly’s president to acquire Zach Randolph Zach Randolph , who has the goods to provide everything the ahead-of-schedule Sixers are offensively lacking in the low docks. Contrary to common belief, Cheeks and Randolph had great respect for each other in Portland.” – New York Post
But I hate the idea of bringing this clown to Philly. Why? Take a look at this video Pete showed me and ask yourself do you want to watch that for 82+ games?
We don’t need that kind of nonsense in Philly, do we?
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bski, Phils ain’t exactly on my mind right now, with the draft lottery and all. Here are some thoughts:
1. Dannie, it sounds like you wanna keep Sammy, but do you think Minnesota would take him and the 16th for the 3rd pick for Brook Lopez? How about something with the Bulls, where we get Ty Thomas and Larry Hughes for Sam and Willie?
2. How about trading Miller to Portland for their pick and one of their guys?
JUST ONE MONTH+ ‘TIL THE DRAFT!
Right on – back to some Sixers talk!
I want to keep Sammy absolutely. Are you that confident Brook Lopez will be a better pro especially on the defensive end than Dalembert? I just think the fact that he is a top 5 shot blocker and top 10 rebounder gets overlooked a bit because is not ideal offensively. I’d much rather have a 100% defensive minded player at center and have strong offensive players on the wing and PF positions.
Larry Hughes – Why?
TY Thomas – Why?
I don’t like either of those players. Larry Hughes doesn’t help with 3-pt shooting from the shooting guard position at all IMO. And what purpose does TY Thomas have on our team? He isn’t a low post scorer so I wouldn’t put him in the starting line-up unless we have a center that was a scorer. To me he is just a younger, more athletic Reggie Evans type role player. If we are talking Chicago Bulls players I’d much rather “consider” Kirk Hinrich who may be expendable if the Bulls take Derrick Rose. I only say “consider” because he makes just over $11M and that is a bit much for him in IMO.
I think A. Miller is worth more than the 13th pick in this draft and a role player from Portland because they certainly wouldn’t give up their top 3 guys in Roy, Oden and Aldridge (who I love).
DANNIE: There are lots of rumors and wishes being tossed around. Zach Randolph, Elton Brand(if he opts out), Chris Wilcox, Josh Smith(if we can get him to leave Atlanta). Who do you think we have a realistic shot at bringing in? Would it be smart to bring in the best PF option now or should we wait a year on that?(I don’t know who might be available after next season, or at the trade deadline for that matter). My thinking is that the Sixers have multiple needs and are most likely a couple years away from being a serious title contender. I feel we have some time to get what we need. If the best option out there is picking up shooter or a replacement PG(we don’t know Miller’s status), whether through the draft, via trade, or free agent signing, shouldn’t we do that now and put off the PF. I don’t want to pick up the best available PF now just because we’ve identified it as our top priority if we can do better in that area by waiting a bit. How would you like to see the Sixers play their hand in attempting to address their needs?
SIXERZGUY: I have come over to the basketball discussion with you now. I expect you to come back to the baseball discussion at some point. Fair enough?
DANNIE: I just popped over to the Deep Sixer blog and saw your post about Wilcox. It just kind of goes back to my previous question. Is there a PF option out there who is attainable and will be a significant upgrade for us. It also led me to another question. If you are concerned about Wilcox’s defense would it be ok to pair him with Sammy. We could have a big man rotation similar to the Cavs (Varejao/Smith and Wallace/Ilgauskas) with one offensive and one defensive player in each pair.(Wilcox/Sammy and Evans/Smith).
Just another question to toss on the pile. Let me know your take on all of it.
Bski – I am actually with you on the point of not settling just because the we designate PF as the top priority. I actually would rather the Sixers take a long-term view this summer and take the best available player at any position. So if that means we bring in a SG or PG that is fine with me.
I don’t like Wilcox as “the answer” at PF but I think he would be a good piece of the puzzle if we could acquire him at a reasonable price (meaning I actually like him better than Reggie Evans as our back-up PF but he could be a starter for now until we find that franchise guy). He is only 25, shoots a good % from the field and doesn’t turn the ball over. My defensive concerns are that he averages less than 1 block per game (.4 career to be exact) and is 6′10 that is kind of disturbing to me for some reason.
You’re right not every player on the floor needs to be a defensive stalwart and if Wilcox provides consistent inside scoring pairing him up with Sammy would work pretty well.
In fact Wilcox would only be signed through next season so if we got him and he looks like a viable option at PF we could lock him up long-term. Or if we don’t think he is the guy he would come off the books next summer and not prevent us from being a player in free agency again. If we could keep Wilcox around that $6.5 million/year mark after next season he would only be making a little over a $1.5 more than Evans and I think we get a better player as back-up or interim starting PF. We would just need to find a way to move Evans.
Sixerzguy…have you seen Larry Hughes play before? On our Sixers, G-State, Washington, Cleveland, or Chicago? Why on earth would ANYBODY want this guy? Abe Pollin of the Wizards made one of the best and underated moves of recent years in the NBA by deciding not to pay the guy big bucks, and instead let him walk to Cleveland.
Seeing “Larry Hughes” and “Sixers” in the same sentence scares me as much as seeing “Zach Randolph” and “Sixers” in the same sentence. Luckily, the Zach Randolph thing is from Vescey, who should have a one on one battle with Sam Smith of the Chicago Times for “most ridiculous rumors reported that are nothing but smoke and mirrors” since the mid 90’s.
Also, with Portland…think of it from their end. Why would Portland go out of their way to trade for an aging veteran PG? They have one of the top 2-3 young and upcoming teams with an amazing nucleus; you’d want a younger PG then a guy in the 32-33 range to be leading that team. Although I’m sure they’d love to have an Andre Miller type as a veteran backup for cheap, no way they’d trade for him. Only contenders or veteran teams that need a PG upgrade would consider trading for A-Miller.
Sixerz…the one thing I do agree with you on very much (and I know Dannie is 100% against lol) is Ty Thomas. I think it’s a very big mistake to write players off after 1-2 years in the league. I do not see Ty Thomas as another Stromile Swift at all, nor as some athletic-only forward. I think it’s VERY worth exploring big men whose stocks are down right now or they haven’t panned out as well as expected…to me Ty Thomas and Marvin Williams would be the two best examples. Ty’s REALLY improved his game this year, which showed back in November-December with an improved jumpshot and jump hook in the post. I just think Skiles drill sergeant ways weren’t the best fit for Ty, and Ty got in his dog house and never got out.
The other thing to keep our eyes on might be, surprisingly, David Lee. Although most NY’s love the guy to the point of man crushage, a report came out saying he could be had if a team took on Jerome James’ contract as well. I’d do that deal in a second, he’s a 14 and 12 waiting to happen if given proper playing time.
Dannie, you know how a lot of fans were screaming for Thad to play more early on, how we could see this guy was good but Willie and Reggie seemed to get more time? That’s how Bulls fans feel about Tyrus Thomas. Most of them think you’ve gotta take Derrick Rose, and they already have their PF of the future in Thomas. That trade I proposed above, I think most Bulls fans would reject it outright!
Are Sixer fans smarter than Bulls fans? Definitely, but their evaluation has to have some weight, right?
Feel free to bring up our clamoring for Willie Green to get more playing time a couple of years ago as a counter to what I just said…
Dave T, my thinking regarding Larry Hughes is that his contract is on the books for just two more seasons, whereas Sammy and Willie are here for 3 more. I tried the same trade with Nocioni, but the numbers just wouldn’t work, according to ESPN’s trade machine, Sam makes too much money. And it had to be something Chicago would consider. “You want Ty? You gotta take Hughes.” “Well, you want Sammy? You gotta take Willie.
Dave T, one last thing before I get fired – reading Portland blogs and news, they fully expect to make noise in the playoffs next year. Sure, they’d love to get a point entering his prime instead of aging Miller, but can’t think of anyone besides Calderon. It all depends on what they’re thinking regarding HOW they want to make the playoffs. Faith in their young guys developing enough next year? Or with veteran help?
DANNIE: Thanks. We are of the same opinion. I am squarely in the take your time, think long term camp. I don’t feel that a 2 year buildup plan is unreasonably long. We can add a couple pieces now and a couple more next year(possibly even make a move at the deadline as well). This will give us time to incorporate all the pieces and give our young core time to develop. I am very much against making major changes and turning over half the roster now.
SIXERZGUY: Interesting point you’ve brought up about Portland, regarding how they want to make the playoffs. We just made the playoffs by showing faith in our young guys, yet many Sixers fans feel that we will get nowhere if we stay with them. Many have no faith at all in their continued development. Like I said in my previous post, I completely disagree with blowing up the team, giving up so soon on some of our young guys, and bringing in a pile of new players.
Sixerz, that’s definitely a great point, but I think it comes down to this. How many more prime years does Andre Miller have left in his tank?…two, tops (you could argue though, and I would, that he’s never reached his potential or prime).
How many years does the B-Roy/Aldridge/Oden core have with this team in the L, given their age, work ethic, and mature personalities?…I’d say 5-7 years…and in an NBA where most coaches and players get hated on, loved again, and hated on in a span of five seasons…that is a LONG time in NBA years. Meaning, why spend the time, and more to the point cap space, on a guy that would probably get you to the playoffs for a year or two, only to then be too old to continue to do so, and cost way too much.
Portland’s got a lot of smaller tradable assets teams would want: Travis Outlaw (who I doubt they’d let go), Martell Webster, Jarret Jack, Channing Frye, rights to Rudy Fernandez, Raef’s expiring contract, etc. There are already some teams overloaded at the PG spot (Grizz: Conley/Crittenton/Lowry…Seattle: Ridnour/Watson…Chicago: Hinrich, Duhon and now possibly Derrick Rose)…Portland is a team that could get very creative and land themselves, if not an all star point, certainly an upgrade.
Larry Hughes for 2 years and losing Sammy is a big big big loss for the 76ers in my book. How does that help the team now or even 3 years from now. I can’t emphasize this enough – you can’t just replace a top 5 shot blocker and top 10 rebounder in the NBA! Sammy is off the table unless you can package him and another player and/or draft pick for a legit star. Getting Larry Hughes (= scrub) and Ty Thomas (= completely unproven player) is no where near equally value for Dalembert. The center position is the most difficult position to fill with a quality player and then I would say point guard. We have a 26 year old center who serves a very good purpose on our young team. Why blow that up, just doesn’t make sense to me even a little bit.
Sixers fans are definitely smarter than Bulls fans, and their opinion does have some weight as well. But not that much in this debate for me. It is less about Thomas and more about the fact we would be trading a proven, young center (who by the way probably still hasn’t reached his potential either) for a guy we HOPE lives up to his potential and has pretty much done nothing in 2 NBA seasons (guys he shot 42% from the field this year in 18 minutes/game). I just don’t like that gamble. If you can find a way to bring Thomas over without giving up Sammy, Thad, Miller, Iguodala and maybe even Williams (i am not all that attached to him though) than I am cool with that.
Dave T – I like your thought on David Lee much better. If we could find a way to swap Evans for Lee I am all for that. But my god is Jerome James’ contract terrible.
Dannie, look at the 2nd round frontcourts:
Oberto/Thomas + Duncan
Gasol + Odom
Chandler + West
Garnett + Perkins
Wallace + McDyess/Maxiell
Howard + Lewis
Okur + Boozer
Ilgauskas + Smith/Varejao/Wallace
Look at the lesser frontcourt guys – what do they have in common? They are all much more fundamentally sound, and much smarter basketball-wise than Sam. They are much better team defenders than Sam. They pass better than Sam. Is it easy to find guys like that? Yes. If you think about really good teams from the past ten years, did they have anyone like Sam in their frontcourt? No.
We’re paying Sam all this money, and all he can do is provide defense and rebounding. There are obtainable guys in the league who can do those two things and are cheaper, and to boot they have some offense outside of lobs, can pass some, and play much better defense than Sam. He is taking up way too much of our cap space, and will continue to do so for 3 more seasons (unless there’s excessive salary inflation).
I personally think that last season is as good as it’s gonna get for Sam, that his value will never be higher, and that we should take advantage of that. People saw the Sixers in the playoffs, they’re not gonna sneak up on anybody, and Sam won’t be as effective next season. His value will go down, and if we did wanna trade him then, we’d get a lot less back.
I hate Larry Hughes, too, but he’d be an upgrade over Willie Green as long as Mo corrals him some. Getting Ty Thomas is a risk – unproven, like you said. But I’d be willing to take that risk for the potential reward of getting a stud power forward, because Sammy was never going to take you to the promised land.
Where I disagree is thinking Sam “needs” to take us to the promise land. He is a piece of the puzzle, not the driving force. We still lack that player right now.
I actually think your list proves my point further. You just showed me 1. a list of completely unattainable players in Howard, Duncan, KG, Sheed, Chandler, Boozer, Gasol, West and you could probably add Odom and Lewis to that list.
Then you gave me some good role players (not on sam’s level). And have you looked at some of the salaries of those role players? Kurt Thomas for one makes over $8M and Ben Wallace over $15M! The guys that aren’t paid that much aren’t really that good are older than Dalembert and provide no where near the defense and rebounding Sam does.
Sam serves a purpose for this team at a position that is difficult to fill with a quality player. What free agents are available that can fill Dalembert’s shoes? Even if we get a stud PF Dalembert provides protection for him on the defensive end so he doesn’t get in foul trouble against bigger and better big men.
IMO Larry Hughes is no better than Willie Green except when he is motivated to play great perimeter defense. I doubt there is any way you can convince me he should be on the Sixers.
Further, why do you want to trade off players after they have a good season? I like our core guys and don’t think we should be thinking about blowing this team up for really no reason at all.
DANNIE: Thanks for backing me up. I like our core guys as well and, as I posted earlier, am against blowing the team up.
I just think that when you get into major overhauling of the roster it leads to more major overhauling. What I mean by that is while we may address certain needs we have now we very well may create other needs. If we trade away too many players it could weaken the bench or another area of the starting 5, which we will need to address next year. Too many changes at one time leads to too many variables to assess in an effort to understand whether or not we’ve actually addressed our needs and are moving in the right direction. Also, no matter how many changes we make to the roster, we eventually have to settle on a core group of players.
I think we already have a core group of players so why can’t we build on that? We all more or less agree that the Sixers need to address 3 spots(PF, SG/SF shooter, PG). The rest is good and hopefully will get better. We can address our needs with the addition of a couple pieces and allow it to develop. I feel going this route will also allow for easier assessment of the team’s development and whether or not we’ve actually addressed our needs sufficiently.
Man, I hate Kobe and the Lakers, San Antonio had that game…
Dannie – First off, I digress on Larry Hughes, man was he bad last year! Just finished reading a lot of the funny posts on heylarrhugesstoptakingsomanybadshots.com! Worse than Willie! What happened to this guy?
About Sam, I’ll just come out and say it – Sam is an airhead. Airheadedness doesn’t win championships, ever – it keeps you from winning championships. I disagree about Sam’s defense – if it was so good, in the last 2 1/2 games of the Detroit series, you would’ve seen some of it, but you didn’t. Also, I think you’re overvaluing his rebounding – in these playoffs, players not as long and athletic are rebounding just as well, they’re showing that you can beat those bigger guys for rebounds if you just want it more. In the Detroit series, I didn’t see Sam wanting it more, did you?
Let’s say we get Elton Brand, and next year we face the Pistons again. Does Brand and Sammy beat Rasheed and Maxiell/McDyess? How about the Celtics’ Garnett and Perkins? Can you just imagine Sammy turning it over in crucial spots, being outrebounded, and not knowing where to be both on offense and on defense?
About blowing the team up, I don’t think I went there, I thought I was pretty focused in talking mainly about trading Sam for Ty Thomas, and discussing Sam. But you made me think of a good discussion point: how good is our core? And another question, after checking what I wrote: what are the expectations for next year?
Damn, I wish these playoff games were earlier…
Sixerzguy – I don’t like Kobe either but I also don’t like the Spurs and am torn on who to root for.
Yeah I linked to the Larry Hughes website a while ago in my NBA mid-season awards post. It is hilarious.
Let me start by saying if we got Brand I feel very comfortable with Dalembert/Brand matching up against both the Pistons and Celtics front line. Mainly because it completely focuses Sam on defense and rebounding. He won’t need to think much about scoring and the less he needs to worry about the better. But what we have to understand is, do we really expect anyone to stop Sheed besides Sheed himself? Do we really think someone is going to stop a motivated KG? These are elite players and I think Sam can do his part in rebounding and defending them. You really believe Ty Thomas would do a better job?
You’re right you weren’t one of the Sixers crazys proposing to blow up the team so I apologize for that.
Lets look at your move from a whole team perspective and long-term view. Thomas isn’t a center he is a PF a thin one at that. Who plays center for the Sixers going forward if you make that deal and Thomas is our starting PF? Please consider the difficulty of getting a top center either through the draft, trade or FA. It is simply the hardest position to fill with a quality player IMO, do you agree with that statement?
So now we have a starting line-up of Ty Thomas, A. Miller, A. Iguodala, Thad Young and who as currently constructed Jason Smith. What center do you bring in if we don’t believe Jason Smith is a starter and I hope we all believe that is the case.
I think many people will quickly say draft Roy Hibbert. Well I think you already know my thoughts on Hibbert, but ok that is a legit thought. You like this team Hibbert, Thomas, Young, Iguodala, Miller better than our current team. I have to insist you consider the fact that our front line would be a rookie and 3rd year player both unproven and both with many question marks. Does that team even make the playoffs? Do you like that front line match-up against Detroit’s and Boston’s?
Just some thoughts.
Dannie, I wanted to take a second to thank you for your educated responses to some of the “ideas” of posters. I have posted similiar rebuttles on DeepSixer for the whole season. It seems that some of these guys read names and stats and salaries but don’t take the time to judge the impact of the deals.
I like Sammy, he needs to mature some and dedicate himself to the nuances of the game more but I agree that you are not going to find an NBA center on the streets.
There are maybe 20 teams looking for a legit center right now and we have one. I say he’ll get better with stability and lots of hard work (and a stud PF), where’s Derrick Coleman when you need him?