You are referring to the following season in which they started 11-10 and Van Gundy stepped down.  I would have accepted that in the Sixers case with Brand but they started 9-14 under Cheeks.  Miami then went 41-20 the rest of the way  that is a .672 winning percentage and I certainly do not see that happening do you?

Also, you factor in what management says because it speaks to their opinion of the player and his impact based on their assessment.  It’s fine for fans to disagree with GMs but those are the people making the decision so I pay close attention to what they say and do.

If they believe he is the answer and he proves not to be regardless of whether we believed their propaganda it tells you something about how those guys are building the team. If they are really willing to move Brand it means they believe they could do better.

Gotta run.

I actually think the 2005 Shaq actually argues your point. The majority of that season Miami sucked.  They started, like our Sixers, with a sub-.500 record, and amidst the pressure, weak record and team not clicking Stan Van stepped down so Riley could take over.  Even with Riley they were right at a .500 ball club most of the year, not intimidating at all, and the majority of the year were not considered a realistic threat. 

Then right towards the end…late February after the all star break I believe…they starting clicking, getting on the same page, Shaq’s stats helped to cause W’s, Riley got them playing good defense, and they walked into the playoffs real hot, and “beat” Dallas (thanks to 100 touch foul calls on D-Wade).  IMO, if you look at that year as a whole, Miami was an incredibly overrated team that had one very good stretch in the 2nd half of the year and got hot at the right time. 

My point being: many teams, or individuals, are capable of doing things in the second half of the year when given patience…and turn things around. I’m willing to give Brand the benefit of the doubt on this one, given what I’ve seen in Clipperland, his work ethic, positive attitude, and strengths.  I don’t think we’ve seen yet what he’s capable of, and if he is capable of getting 100% healthy and in game shape…I want to see him with this now-energized Sixers team, as opposed to the poorly coached Mo team. 

Also…why would how much management touts a player have anything to do with an opinion on a forum? Personally I thought ES overhyped and oversold his skills during the signing period, so what ES thinks isn’t going to have much correlation with my own thoughts on Brand, and I’m sure most fans disagree with quite a few viewpoints or beliefs their GMs have. 

I’m just very surprised that given all of us have JUST watched our own Sixers go from seven games below .500, to playing up to their Non-Brand potential…why would people not think the same thing could happen for one individual player in the 2nd half of the year in our system?  I still think with the talent we have now, this is a 47-49 win team IF properly coached, and IF healthy, and it makes perfect sense for a team to start below .500, then get to .500, and then click better in the last quarter of the year to start impressing people as they get to know each other better and round into form. 

I’m with others that say the Andre Miller situation is what we should be concerning ourselves with, not Brand.

I have merely been pointing out the fact that he has lost his “bounce” since getting hurt and we haven’t seen it yet.  That is a MAJOR concern for me.  Sure he can use his girth to make space and get OK shots.  But without the quickness and decent jumping ability he is not going to be the impact we need him to be.

And he was scoring an inefficient 16 ppg at the beginning of the season.  Shouldn’t need 13 shots to get it done especially at the power forward position which traditionally should be a higher % scoring position in your line up.  This team doesn’t shoot well enough for Brand to be posting a 45% field goal percentage.

Look, this is how things go.  When players and teams stink you talk about them sucking because it’s the reality of the moment.  If Brand get’s his game back and his agility and quickness back all the chatter will go away.  But all we’ve seen are less than a handful of solid games against so-so opposition.  That isn’t what we got him for.  The deal would have to really be good to move him. 

The biggest reason I was OKAY with the Marion deal is because it gives you two options, resign him and play your style or collect the cap space, most deals don’t give you that kind of flexibility.  But even that deal isn’t ideal.

I am less concerned about him being integrated effectively and more concerned whether we got shorter, weaker passing Chris Webber.

But I do think because of recent moves in the past year (KG to Boston, Gasol to LA, Billups to Denver)…there is a perception of “trades need to work now” because for those respective teams, chemistry happened quickly with their veteran movement.  I just think that they are the minority and not the majority…that usually team growth requires long term patience.

I don’t know if I can agree with this on two fronts. 

First – Like I said, when you bring in a proven veteran the expectation is results immediately from him and the team because his impact is assumed to be extremely positive and his production contagious.  You don’t go out and sign a 30 year-old superstar and talk patience.  Strategically that doesn’t make sense to me at all.  You paid a premium for instant results.  Now “results” is relative.  I am not saying they should have come out and been the best team in the conference, but their level of play was near the bottom and that is unacceptable.

To add to that, the GM who made the move has openly said he isn’t preaching patience

Second - I think you may be doing what you think we all are doing by looking at recent moves and assuming it’s the minority.  For example:

• 2005 Season: Shaq to Miami.  First season they won 59 games, 7 straight playoffs games and took Detroit to 7 games in the Eastern Conference finals.  Following year they won 52 games and an NBA Finals.  Instant success.
• 1983 Season: Moses comes to Philly.  Previous season they won 58 games and lost in the Finals.  Season they added Moses they won 65 games and rolled through the playoffs and won the Finals. Instant success.
• 1997 Season: Lakers get Shaq they lost in the first round of the playoffs the previous year and won 53 games.  ’97 they won 56 games and one a playoff series. Immediate improvement.
• 1993 Season: Suns get Barkley. They have an 11 game improvement and go to the Finals.  They lost in the semis in the West the previous year.  Instant success.

The Sixers with Brand have been marginally better in terms of wins and that isn’t saying anything considering how dismal the team was last year.

I know Brnad isn’t on any of those guys level, BUT the point is you sign a guy that is a proven player with proven production that is highly touted by management as the answer (which Ed and Dileo have) the one thing that absolutely can’t happen is regression serious regression in terms of the players individual performance and team success certainly can’t regress or even remain flat.

I am not for patience, if he doesn’t perform our team will be a .500 team for a while, which some of you sound content with, and in 5 years when his contract runs out a lot of our “young” guys won’t be so young anymore.  He is a vet, all-star caliber player, you were brought here with confidence to do a job.  Do it or you’re expendable, that goes for anyone.

Myself, and most of you spend a considerable amount of money and even more time watching and talking about this team.  Succeed or find a way, however it may be.