We’ve had tons of Sixers draft discussion on the blog lately, and people have been asking about insider information and rumors about whether or not the team will trade up or down in the draft. Here is a 76ers draft+trade rumor hot off the presses that should be of interest for you guys (and gals).
One trade that is making the rounds would involve the Knicks sending Zach Randolph and the rights to the #6 pick to Philadelphia for a smaller contract, such as Reggie Evans, and the rights to the #16 pick-after July 1st (when Philadelphia’s cap space kicks in). New York would move into position to have significant cap space in the summer of 2010 (possibly to make a run at LeBron James) by unloading the 17.3 million dollars owed to Randolph in 2010/11, and would still be able to keep David Lee around.
Philadelphia would fill a big void at power forward with a 20 point per game scorer in Zach Randolph, and possibly pick up one of Jerryd Bayless, O.J. Mayo or Eric Gordon in the process, while only sacrificing the 8-9 million dollars they are expected to have in cap space, which likely wouldn’t get them very far anyway. - DraftExpress
This makes sense on the surface for the Sixers in a few ways.
- We wouldn’t be able to move up that far in the draft without taking on something we don’t deem optimal (Zach Randolph). This is especially true since Isiah Thomas is no longer running the team, and we can’t expect the bone-head deals to continue now that Donnie Walsh is in charge for the Knicks.
- I posted in early May that Maurice Cheek might have some interest in bringing Zach Randolph to the 76ers to fill our power forward need. He is a legit 20-point scorer and when motivated can get you 10 boards per night as well. Considering he also has a fairly decent mid-range jump shot he provide some versatility in pick-and-roll situations as well. Is he a DOPE and as Pete says a loser? Yeah probably. But that doesn’t mean we should completely ignore what he can provide this team in areas of need.
- We weren’t going to get an impact player at #16, Stefanski has already said this. But at #6 that is a different story. We then would be in position to draft any number of players who can come in and contribute immediately (Eric Gordon will be there and maybe even Mayo if the top 5 teams are idiots - DraftExpress already has him falling to 6 for no real reason at all).
- We keep the core and chemistry of this team intact. That is if you even like our current core players, which many Sixers fans on the Philly.com forums have expressed that they do not. (Lots of blow-the-team-up talk going on over there)
I am purposely taking the side of making this deal happen if it becomes more real because I know most people hate the idea of Zach Randolph in a 76er jersey (Me). So feel free to play devil’s advocate (Sixerzguy).
Do you like that idea? Is the best move the Sixers can make to improve the team now and for the future? Who would you take at #6 if this deal went down? Lots to talk about - have at it.
P.S.
If you look at the next paragraph in that link you will see the Sixers mentioned as a possible team moving up to grab Memphis’ #5 pick. None of the top players want to play there and are refusing workouts. Why would they? The GM gave away a top 5 NBA center in his prime and the owner seems to be pretty clueless about the whole situation!
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42 comments ↓
If that deal is out there, I’d have to make it. I will look on the optimistic side and say 1) We can fill two needs at once without blowing up the team. This is a big step on the road to contender status 2) Cheeks had Randolph in Portland. He obviously knows him well and figures he can handle him. 3) Hopefully getting out of New York and coming to a team on the rise will minimize any potential attitude problems. 4) He only has three years left on his contract, so we’re not tied to him forever. 5) Having him will allow us time to see what we’ve got in Jason Smith and Herbert Hill and get a better understanding of our big man situation.
Whew…I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but…if that offer is actually legit and on the table, we HAVE to take that. Our lineup would have a ten man rotation of:
PG: Andre Miller / Lou Williams
SG: Eric Gordon / Rodney Carney
SF: Andre Iguodala / Thad Young
PF: Zach Randolph / Thad Young / Jason Smith
C: Sammy D / Herbert Hill
I know some might disagree with my Eric Gordon choice at #6, but if we pick that high, I want a guy with a set position. He plays SG, will always play SG, and everyone knows exactly what Gordon can do: shoot the lights out, a great slasher that can finish at the rim, great bball IQ, and a hard worker. At 6′4 he’s a bit small, but with the bigger Andre Miller I think that’s a great combo. When you watch Gordon play, he looks like a Duke-coached, 3-4 year college vet. A poised college player is a great asset to have.
Zach Randolph thoughts:
-Pros: Zach is behind only Duncan, Brand and Boozer as far as having the best true post game in the NBA. He is a BEAST on the block, has excellent footwork, explosive taking the ball with his back to the basket…truly one of the few legit post talents in the league. He’s also shockingly quick for someone his size…not fast getting up an down the floor, but extremely quick in a halfcourt set and with his hands/feet. Is also an awesome rebounder, and unlike some other Sixers (yes you Sammy!!!) he actually is fundamentally sound and boxes out.
The other thing that gets most overlooked with him: work ethic. He is (you’d never think it, but it’s true) one of the hardest workers in the off season at improving his game each year. He was one of the most raw draft picks Ive ever seen come into the league, and his hard work has transformed him into a different player. Every coach, assistant coach, and player around him has always said this about him, media tends to gloss it over.
Cons: Lot of obvious ones…THE definition of a black hole on offense, and one of the worst passing PF’s in the NBA. Pretty awful defender. FG% not nearly as high as it should be because he takes some iffy jumpers from midrange too much. Not a great teammate off the court, not a reliable leader, potential locker room cancer…etc.
There’s some huge concern here, but I think we do it because:
-Mo is a far better coach now then he was in Portland. He’s more assertive and a better communicator, and has (apparently) ok relations with Zach. As others have said…I cant imagine he’d want Ed going after him if he didn’t think he could handle it.
-I’m ok with Zach’s lack of defense, given that the rest of our team is slowly turning into a bunch of freak defensive athletes…we’ll be able to hide him, especially with Sammy there.
-We REALLY need some size, rebounding, and an intimidation factor. Zach fits that to a tee.
-His post game opens the floor up for all our slashers and shooters…I really think it would help Iguodala up in particular, he’d get double teamed far less driving to the hole, and would finally have a big guy to dish to when he gets caught with no where to go.
-No matter how bad of a cancer he was in Portland…I truly think he had matured a bit, needed a change of scenery to flourish, and coming to NYC was ready to evolve as a person. NY was Isaiah’s mess, and I almost feel Zach going there was like a recovering alcoholic hanging out at a happy hour at a bar…a situation that catered to his bad side. I think with the solid unit and mindset we’ve got going on in Philly, he’d turn himself around.
-Zach probably has one of the biggest chips on his shoulders in the NBA…he’s in the top 3 in the League right now for wanting to pull the “shut everyone up by averaging a 24 and 11 and making the all star team” card. I think if he’s given playing time and a support system, he can do just that.
As Bill Simmons might say: *banging head on desk for defending this guy in a public forum*
woooow… I agree with bski, you HAVE to make that deal. You move up into the top half of the lottery and all you give up is Reggie? And what about the cap space? Doesn’t look like Elton Brand is going to opt out, Atlanta won’t let Josh Smith get away, and Chris Wilcox to me is not a significant upgrade.
I dislike Randolph as much as the next guy, but for the 6th pick… And who knows (not that I want to talk myself into this) what effect Cheeks would have on Randolph? Also, this team has embraced a certain mentality due to the leadership of the two Andres. Those guys play hard and motivate their teammates to do so as well.
Now that I’ve started talking myself into this, how would Dalembert and Randolph look together in the frontcourt? Is Thad moved to the bench? Who do you take with the pick? Take a big man like Randolph II or Love? Or a guard like Gordon or Augustin?
I really think this would be a sweet deal. Plus if we move up to the sixth spot, who says we can’t move up higher? There as been some talk of the top three teams wanting to move down…
Dave T - I would probably take Eric Gordon as well but he is essential a much better Ben Gordon. He is only 6′3 and a quarter with shoes on, so although I agree he has a definite position as a shooting guard he is still undersized. I am hoping his wingspan, strength and athleticism will make up for his stature a bit on defense. Not really worried about his offense.
Raro - I think the top 3 spots are locked in. Miami might trade down but only one spot as Pete has suggested if they aren’t sold on Beasley and prefer Mayo to play along side Wade (apparently the two have been working out together in Chicago and developing a good relationship).
Just hit me as well we would now have an undersized shooting guard and undersized small forward. Makes me cringe, but I know we would have better skilled players.
put me in the minority that would have to think long and hard about this trade. why? here are the records of the teams in which Zach Randolph was a main piece.
Blazers
03-04: 41-41
04-05: 27-55
05-06: 21-61
06-07: 32-50
Knicks
07-08: 23-59
He is the Stephon Marbury of forwards. Puts up numbers, but makes the team worse.
I would really, really like to get up into the 5 or 6 slot to take Gordon, Mayo (if he drops) or Love. But I think getting Randolph would ruin the team.
Everyone is saying you HAVE to make the deal… why?
Sixers aren’t losing their cap space anytime soon. Why wrap up 2-3 years in Z-bo? He is after all a pretty horrible overall basketball player. Most starting PFs in the NBA could put up 19 and 9 like Zach does at 45% from the field. It really isn’t THAT hard… especially when you only play on one side of the court AND shoot it every time you get it.
I would think the Knicks would demand Jason Smith rather than a draft pick. Just my opinion. I think Mike D has to salivate over what Smith could be in 2-3 years… a 3 point threat that can block shots and run the could as well as any 7 footer…
Memphis? That is a little bit different. A deal to get Miller and #5 wouldn’t be a major stretch imo and taking on Darko or Cardinal would hurt for one less year than Zach and hurt a lot less.
Joe, I gotta assume you are just playing devil’s advocate here and can’t possibly believe “it really isn’t THAT hard” to score 19 and grab 9 boards per game in the NBA. That is well kind of ludicrous. Guys have a hard enough time shooting just 45% from the field as it is (38 PFs and C combined shot 45% or better this past season who qualified to be ranked). Especially when we come back to reality and acknowledge that no player shoots “every time they get it” and no player plays zero defense. No team would allow that.
Also, he was on a completely dysfunctional team with a terrible head coach. I don’t think the Sixers would allow the freedom to run a muck that we saw in New York.
Joe…disagree with a lot of what you just said. This isn’t just “some power forward”. He has one of the best classic post games in the NBA. What do the Sixers need most? A PF that has a classic big man post game. Who is the only one out there better then Zach? Elton Brand…who will ask more then we can afford, and why on earth would he walk away from sunny LA, and the potential best frontcourt in the NBA with him and Kamen, not to mention a possible young rising scorer in Thornton?
Also I don’t care who you are…20 and 10 is not something just any old shmo can do…that takes great talent, skill, and consistency. Sure 45% isn’t great, but that would improve if he bought into a team system. Just my opinion, but the huge knock against the guy is his off court issues and chemistry issues on the team…his on court talent is undisputed around the league. If you’re knocking his actual basketball talent, I honestly think you haven’t seen him play enough. Watching his post game is a pleasure.
And no we don’t “have” to make this trade…but I’ll rephrase: “We’d be foolish as hell not to.” Why? Here’s how I’m looking at it:
If I were the Sixers GM, would I trade a role player (Reggie Evans) and the #16 pick, for the #6 pick straight up? In this draft…absolutely, I see that as a no brainer. Zach has two years (correct me if I’m wrong on that?) left on his deal…worst case scenario, we give Zach a shot, he becomes team poison, we let him walk, and still come away having traded a role player and backup PF for a potential future all star, mega scorer, or at least competent NBA starter with whoever the #6 is.
Best case scenario? Zach, who has the single largest chip on his shoulder in the NBA for just wanting to shut his critics up and play ball, completely opens up our team offense by putting in a consistent 20 and 10 or 18 and 9 and becomes a legit post up threat on the block, which we have not had since freaking Barkley (unless you count Spoon or DC. I don’t).
This seems completely win-win to me. The potential ceiling of this deal is well worth the risk…and there really isn’t much risk, because we are retaining, as Dannie said, ALL our core pieces. I’m not interesting in being a “hover around the 1st and 2nd round playoff team”…I say push our chips in and see what happens.
Dave T,
Lou Williams as our future point - during practice, Mo probably went up to him and said lots of sentences beginning with, “As a PG in this league…” or “When you run the team…” I bet Andre Miller did his share of wisdom-imparting himself. But I can’t say for sure, who knows what was said in practice. I’ll tell you what I did hear - during games, Salmi and Zumoff would constantly say how lucky Lou was to have Mo and Andre Miller around to teach him the point guard position. But LouWill seems pretty low-key, just does what he does, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that he was really content with that 6th man role. If we stayed pat and went with Augustin at #16, I could envision something similar to this year, where DJ would play the 1st and 3rd quarters (like Willie) while Lou would get the 2nd and 4th.
It’s kind of hard to play devil’s advocate with that Knicks trade though, I can’t believe there’s a chance that’s on the table. I even like what our 4th quarter lineup will be: LouWill, Miller, Iggy, Zach, Sammy. Then we have that 6th pick contributing in spot minutes (for now). I like Gordon at #6, but where I disagree with you is how we should use him - I would have no problem with an experiment trying to turn him into a combo guard instead of a pure “2″. That would take some vision and commitment from both Gordon and the Sixers, though.
I still can’t believe we’re even talking about moving up to the 6th pick, AND getting Randolph…
Well, I’ve read everything so far and I’m sticking with my original position. Dave T. went into much more detail than I did, and I agree with all of it. It just flat out makes sense to do this deal because the chances are extremely good that we come out way ahead. We need to get much better to be a championship contender and this deal will go a long way toward getting us there. We will fill our two most pressing needs in one fell swoop with minimal disruption. And, like Dave T. said, even if Randolph is a bust, the end result will be that we traded Reggie Evans and our #16 to move up to #6 and get an immediate impact player that should be a major contributor for years to come.
Dave T - according to Hoopshype, Zach has three more years left on his contract with the last year valued at 17 million.
Joe - Darko and Cardinal would be around for two years at a combined 14 million in the last year.
I would be fine giving up some young talent (Smith, Williams, or Carney) and absorbing those two contracts for the number 5 pick. If only Memphis were that dumb…
Thanks for the info about Zach’s contract Raro, I was wondering about that!
I think we’d all agree it would be great to get Memphis’ #5 pick, but no way in hell they are trading that baby away with their need for a forward or center. One thing I’d love for the Sixers to explore though is pursuing Javaris Crittenton (I’m assuming they have tagged Conley, rightfully so, as their PG of the future of the three).
We don’t really have the pieces to land Crittenton (with our pieces we could move…we have players that are either too talented or not talented enough to warrant that)…but I love Javaris’ talent, and was praying last year he would slip to us at #21 so we could draft the G-Tech duo in one swoop. Unfortunately, Miami got in the way and beat us to the punch.
A guy I’d be real curious to see if we could land as both a backup PG, as well as a possible interim replacement for Andre Miller down the line, would be Chicago’s Chris Duhon. Rock solid, poised vet player, an assist machine and amazing defense. Either him or Hinrich will have to go if they draft Derrick Rose.
A tweak trade (involving Willie Green, Jason Smith, a 2nd round pick, etc) for one of another’s teams logjammed PG’s might also be worth looking at as a backup for A. Miller…Earl Watson/Luke Ridnour, Jarret Jack/Steve Blake would make nice additions to our team if we weren’t able to get a Grizz. The Seattle duo especially are nice, as both can knock down the long ball and have been looking to get off that team for years.
@Dave T.
Memphis may not have a choice as to whether or not to trade down. It has been reported that 6 of the 7 top prospects have refused to work out for them and would refuse to play for them. Love is the only one that will.
OK. Let me ask a few questions about Zach before I start to make my argument as to why I would not do this deal. I may see this deal as different than you guys.
Why are the Sixers doing this deal.
a) Zach is an elite post player. He will be the answer in the post. Book it. They will most likely resign him long term and contend. Sammy and the rest of the Sixers can cover up for his subpar D anyway. The #5 pick will then be used on a guard to sure up the #2 spot in the lineup. Maybe the Sixers find a way to trade up for Mayo?
b) We are doing this for the #5 pick. There is such a large discrepancy between the talent at 5 and 16 that the Sixers should be willing to take on an extra 33 million dollars to move up 11 spots. That 17 million dollar expiring contract could be useful as well…
c) It is worth it to take a flier on Zach. Maybe Mo, Miller, and the rest of the Sixers’ unselfishness will rub off on Zach. Maybe it won’t. It is worth the risk. At worst the Sixers get the #5 pick out of it, who should surely be another piece to the puzzle. Zach’s expiring contract could bring in a great player…
If you see it as a. More power to you. No point in us arguing. You see something I don’t see. I have seen Zach play a limited number of times. I know his stats are PITIFUL all around though. From stats and viewing him, I think he gets 0 offensive boards unless they fall to him or it is a put back off his miss. He doesn’t defend and is about as much of a shot blocking presence as Nate Robinson.
If you say b. I think you are wrong. 33 million to move up 11 spots is stupid imo.
If you say c, I agree in a lot of ways, but ultimately this move will cost us any chance whatsoever in case Amare Stoudamire becomes disgruntled or Carlos Boozer amongst many others. It will also cost us 33 million dollars and watching Zach would make me want to vomit. No thanks.
@Dave T. No thanks on Duhon. Infamous party animal. Has a lot more talent than he shows. He doesn’t show any sign of getting his act together. Ask a good Bulls fan and they are likely to tell you he is wasted talent. The guy has had some 40ish point games in the NBA if I recall correctly. I don’t want to see him photographed with his eyes swollen shut from being so hammered 3 weeks after the Sixers give him a 3 year deal.
I like Jason Smith a lot. I would rather have Smith than 16 in this draft by a lot put simply. He has shown effort and has a ton of skills for the PF position in the NBA. Throwing him into a deal for an MLE-type PG doesn’t seem smart to me.
Watching his post play may be a pleasure, but every other minute is pain especially when he takes 3 pointers for no reason.
Joe, as I explained, I see the reasons are A, B, and C combined, not separately. I just don’t see the downside. In my opinion, we don’t have a shot at landing an elite player via free agency. If we strike out with Brand, and I believe we would, that means we have 11-13 million to offer…3rd tier pieces. Zach Randolph is an elite talent. Why not take the gamble? I never said he was “in the book”…he is a gamble.
He’s got three years left on his contract. That means he gets two years to prove he can put up 19 and 10, and not be a cancer for the locker room. Best case scenario, he does the above, and gives us the post presence we need. Worst case scenario, it doesn’t work, we gave it a shot for two years, and year three use his expiring contract to trade for another talent, pieces, or to let go and get under the cap.
You’re kinda twisting my words around there man…I didn’t say it’s worth it to take “33 million for the #5 pick”…I said I think it’s a no brainer to trade the 16 and a backup PF, for the #5 on its own, because we can get a huge cog for our team at #5. So if I’d do that on it’s own, AND I have a chance to take a two year trial run on a guy that has the potential to toss up a double double and is an all star level talent? Sign me up, and take the two year $ hit.
As far as Duhon…I think you’re over judging the guys character based on one incident. And…I certainly don’t think he “hasn’t gotten his act together” or “hides his talent”…he’s a marginal PG with some great skills. Everyone knows what he is by now…a guy that with 20 mpg, will get you 8 points and 5 assists…if he ever started, he’s get 10 points 7.5 assists. He’s certainly not a scorer, so not sure why you even bring one 40 game aberration up. Like with a younger Brevin Knight, I know I wouldn’t mind having a tough minded PG that get get 5-7 assists in 20 -25 mpg. I’m not saying he’s our savior ha, was just throwing an idea out there for a “tweak” trade.
Last comment about Zach…we’re not signing him to be a versatile, all around guy. We have versatile players with Andre, Iggy and Thad. The main thing we need in our PF is a guy that provides good enough offense to the point that he commands double teams to open up the floor. Zach is that. No, he doesn’t play defense, nor block shots…I’m not saying he’s Elton Brand. He does two things extremely well: is a MONSTER post presence, and a great defensive rebounder. I’ll take that any day over the crap we’ve got at the position now.
And…Carlos Boozer is going to be extended in Utah, and Stoudamire isn’t a free agent for another 3-4 years, so I’m not really sure what “elite PF’s” you’re worried about escaping from our claws. This is a rare trade where we could actually get $2.00 on the .25. That’s almost unheard of.
Anyone else notice that the Sixers have only worked out (or planning to) Javale McGee, CJ Giles, and Callistus Eziukwu? Maybe I’m just being impatient, but if you go over to TrueHoop, there’s lots of info about who’s working out for who, and there’s no mention of the Sixers at all! What gives?
Two and a half weeks left to be trying out people…this is just day one buddy!
I pity any team that drafts Javale McGee…the kid is completely not ready for the NBA in any way shape or form. Definitely the big man bust of ‘08 just waiting to happen. Which probably means the Wizards will be taking him.
I should have readdressed after the first Memphis comment. I meant to ask the whole board that a, b, c question. Not you specifically. I wasn’t attempting to show your words whatsoever. I was trying to gauge what other people saw in the deal.
Carlos Boozer has made it known he may leave Utah when his contract is up. Apparently his daughter has an illness and the higher altitude in Utah is bad for this. That is what I have read. Utah fans are also clamoring to give Millsap, a young stud, more PT since he has shown flashes of a game that could rival or even surpass Boozer since he can defend.
Amare’s contract could be up in 6 years and it wouldn’t matter. If he looks around the roster at some point after next year and sees Leandro Barbosa as the next best player on the team, he isn’t going to stay, especially for a team that consistently sells their first round picks. The Suns are an old team. Amare is young. He isn’t going to want to wait around while they rebuild. If the Sixers have cap space, they could easily step in and make a deal.
I diasgree about Duhon. Duhon is pretty well known for getting obliterated when he goes out.
Duhon is wasted talent in my book. He hasn’t improved in any aspect of the game since his soph year. He appears to me to have been a promising rookie that never put in any work to improve and thus has relegated himself to a 2nd-3rd PG role.
As for Zach, I don’t see him as an elite talent. I see him as an inefficient scorer from the PF position. He would be our best option in the low post surely, but he take away PT, and development, from guys like Jason Smith, Herb Hill, and Thaddeus. Guys like this are, without fail, available every single offseason. Zach, himself, was traded for nothing just a year ago…
The Sixers aren’t going to lose their cap space any time soon. Why wrap up their cap situation for 2-3 years?
Wrap up the cap situation so we can win now. When do you want to win Joe? You are talking about saving cap room for guys under contract for multiple years, hoping and wishing they will change teams and of all the teams coveting them that they choose the Sixers. You can build a team that way if you want, but I doubt anyone in the Sixers organization is thinking along those lines.
And we aren’t even talking about players of the caliber of a Kobe or LeBron. Are you kidding me, save our money for 4 years and hope to get Amare or Boozer. That would piss just about every Philly fan off but you. I can see it now, fans irate because the organization is being cheap and not spending money to make the team better. We’ve seen it with the Eagles in the past already.
Ultimately the dispute comes in the ability of Randolph to be a reliable cog at PF without disrupting the team chemistry and style of play. I don’t know if he can, but I am not going to sit here and say it isn’t a possibility that he can. We see it all the time when players finally find the right home with around the right coaches and players.
He isn’t Elton Brand or Rasheed Wallace (this is a whole other issue in of itself) at all, we fully understand that. But he is significantly better than anyone we have (Young IS NOT A PF!) Jason Smith hasn’t shown me much of anything yet. Not necessarily his fault because he hasn’t played considerable minutes to really evaluate him from a fan perspective, but it is what it is. He is just ok as far as I am concerned and he is far from untouchable and a solid back up at best long term in my opinion. In this draft the 16th pick could easily be a significantly better player than Jason Smith (20th pick from Colorado State)
Not sure what the talk is about Duhon, he is ok as a back up point guard.
Joe, thanks for the Duhon party info - I looked into it, I saw the “stripper” photos, awesome!
But remember this about Jason - he likes his porn stars, he was lucky no one was around with a camera up in NYC…
Elton Brand is exploring his options. His agent, David Falk, is talking around the league. The Sixers are definitely on Brand’s radar because of their cap space and young nucleus for him to play with. That is from a radio interview with Phila. 950 AM. Very promising. I would far rather get Brand, even giving him a longer extension than Randolph’s, than Randoplh and the #6. T
However, Brand aside, the rumored deal is pretty pretty cheap for the Sixers, although part of me wants Ed to hold out for subbing Willie into that deal instead of Evans. But you gotta give to get.
@Dannie
All I can say is that every single year there are elite players available because their contract ends, they are disgruntled, or a team is looking to shed their contract. next year won’t be different. The following year won’t be different. That is all I have to say when you insinuate it isn’t intelligent to run a team with thoughts on the future, instead of solely the present.
Boozer has one more year left on his deal, not multiple years as you say. He has a player option he isn’t exercising for obvious monetary reasons. The Jazz aren’t going to be willing to go into the luxury tax. Boozer is heading out very soon most likely.
Calling the Sixers “cheap” because they don’t spend to exceed the salary cap simply in the NBA doesn’t make sense to me. Not exceeding the luxury tax and being an elite team would be an example of being cheap. *Looks at Phoenix*
I’m not paying 11 million dollars more per year to “upgrade” from Evans to Randolph. No thanks.
I would not take much from that Brand interview on 950. The problem is he has to opt out so you’re going to have pony up a big, long contract.
Real reason to do this Randolph deal is to get Eric Gordon but the black hole and contract makes me nervous. This team has really good chemistry and as much as Sam should be a defensive player, he is always on the verge of creating problems because he is ignored offensively
JOE: WHAT are you talking about? Of course it is intelligent to run a team with thoughts of the future. You just can’t run it thinking of the future exclusively. You also must give some thought, preferably more thought, to now. I say preferably because we know about now while the future is a lot more cloudy. We know the players we have now. We know the cap space we have now. We know who’s available now. We have very little idea about any of those things in the future.
Let’s say we go your way and wait on Stoudamire. Even if it is only a two year wait, where will we be? What will our cap situation be then, Joe? How about Andre Miller, Lou Will, Iguodala, and the rest? Who will still be here and how will they be performing? Will we have a more pressing need to fill then? I don’t know and neither do you. No matter how long you keep planning for the future, you need the future to arrive at some point. You simply cannot always be waiting for next year or two years down the road.
You may be right. We may have the opportunity to pick up a Boozer or a Stoudamire in the not too distant future. What’s your plan B if we don’t, look ahead a couple more years until we might have a chance at getting someone else? C’mon be serious, will you? We have a very good opportunity right now to take a major step toward being a contending team and right now is the time to seize that opportunity.
Elton Brand 950 ESPN Radio Interview
RC:
Of course you have to give out a big contract. But would you rather have 3 years of Zack Randolph, or 5 years of Elton Brand? Brand is head and shoulders above Randolph, talent-wise. No question which deal you do if presented with both opportunities.
I am with Morty (welcome back) I would pay more for Brand if we can legitimately get him than do the Randolph deal. The Randolph deal is in my opinion is a viable plan B or C type of situation. Obviously plan A is get Brand.
Joe so we are clear I would do this Randolph deal as a plan B or C not before exploring other/better options. The assumption of this debate was that the chances of getting Brand were slim.
All I read when I look at your comments is the idea to sit on our cap space and basically doing nothing to improve the team until a player of your choice is available through free agency. Then hope we have enough money and a good enough sales pitch to snatch him up. That to me is faulty thinking and to the casual fan looks cheap.
Few things I think you are neglecting to factor in is how the landscape of the NBA will be at that time and the progress or regression of said players. Save our cap space and Boozer gets hurt, plan dead. Save our cap space and Amare regresses, plan dead. Right now we are one of very few teams with an abundance of cap space, will that also remain true when these players you mention are available? Will competition be higher therefore driving the price up and chance of the Sixers winning a bidding war go down. Further, how do you know Utah won’t have the money to resign Boozer? They could move Okur (smart play) or Kirilenko’s 16M contract as to ensure they keep Boozer if he is the player they deem most important (Williams and Boozer=modern day Stockton and Malone)
Also, how does your plan also fill other positions of need? Don’t forget as RC pointed out the Randolph deal gets us two impact players in positions of need.
Guys this is great discussion.
Agree with what some of the others have said. I think we’re all agreed that overpaying, even going over the luxury tax for a 4-5 year deal for Brand in the 15 million per year range, is something that we all want. Any of us would take that over Zach Randolph…I mean, no one here is saying Zach Randolph is anyone’s primary target. There is a reason, after all Portland gave him away to NYC for “Franchise” and then bought Stevie out.
Joe, the one thing I think you’re kinda downplaying, which Dannie mentioned, is players entering better situations, and time allowing for growth and maturity. The majority of the NBA is not a bunch of Sprewells, Marbury Isaiah Riders. Those guys certainly would kill pretty much any team they were on, and were all ridiculously talented. But most people, even if they cause their team’s headaches with chemistry issues or make stupid decisions aren’t bad people. People change over time, they learn from their lessons.
Zach Randolph wore out his welcome with some dumbass decisions, but this is a guy that has unreal work ethic that just needs a chance. I do not blame Zach Randolph at all for anything in NYC…that was a titanic mess that no one player deserved the brunt of, and if anyone did, Zach was certainly not a primary culprit. He came into the league real immature at age 20, he’s only 26 now…I definitely take a glass if half full attitude with him, but that’s just me. He needs a support system around him with hardworking players, and I think he’d do fine.
As for Stoudamire and Booz…Joe I’m with you on Stoudamire might wanting to leave in a few years, Phoenix has done a horrible job building for the future. But why on earth would any city except NYC, LA, Miami or Phoenix (the only places NBA guys WANT to go to) save up money for a 1/30 chance a player might come to that particular team? It’s really hard to woo a player via free agency…most teams are built through trades and smart drafting.
I’d be shocked…SHOCKED…if Carlos Boozer left Utah. On the court, Booz likes demanding coaches that teach the game right, and loves and respects the hell out of Jerry Sloan. Him and Deron have fabulous chemistry, and any team that already has their 1st and 2nd option…or two 1st options, however you want to label them…is set to build on and contend. Boozer grew up as a humble, small town kid in Alaska, loves the outdoors, Utah is the ideal setting for him, and he knows Utah will pay him whatever he asks for, as they have always taken care of players worthy of the dough.
They also have tons of great pieces to set up possible trades with to boost their roster with a legit #3 option, an 17-18 ppg SF type. Okur & Kirilenko have their flaws but are very talented, and teams would also have interest in Morris Almond, Ronnie Brewer, CJ Miles, and I’m sure they’d move Millsap if a great player came along (if I’m Utah, I do everything in my power to go get Richard Jefferson).
Hmmm, Brand is throwing a monkey wrench into the Randolph rumors.
Everyone is focusing ZR, but the potential 6th pick is likely the big ticket. If it’s Eric Gordon, this guy is going to be a tremendous pro. He fell doen the stretch due to a wrist injury and the chaos @ IU, but he is a beast.
Yes, he’s only 6-3, 6-4, but he has a tremendous wingspan and he is built like a tank.
This deal would add a potential 30 points to the rotation.
(back after few days, new job, new town etc etc..)
DO THIS TRADE IMMEDIATELY !! As soon as I read it, I said: “Let’s go !!”
I think this is a no brainer and I am NOT a great Randolph fan (well, who is it, BTW?). But Dave T in his first post explains very well why we should do that, I have nothing to add
One thing no one mentioned: remember Sixers have another big contract expiring in 2009, Andre Miller (that I absolutely love) and his 10 mill, so it’s not that by adding Randolph and his fat deal we’re f’ing our cap up for the next XXX years, Sixers will have another card to play in the summer of 2009, in the worst case
Get Zach + that pick, that would be a REAL upgrade over the current situation, we’d add somethng we really lack, low post scoing + outside shooting, and we wouldn’t lose nothing but a (nice) role player and a mid pick
I’m pumped, LOL
Dave T.
You make a solid optimist’s case for Randolph. And although the 3 years left on his contract make me very nervous, the #6 pick is a real pot sweetener. But if Brand is out there, he’s got to be your number 1 option.
Here’s a thought, Plan A - Brand, we can all agree on that. Plan B on the other hand can be debated. What happens if Joe Dumars really blow up the Pistons? Would Rasheed Wallace become Plan B or is the #6 pick a must do?
Let’s begin!
I would also rather, depending on the cost, acquire Wallace than Randolph and the #6. Rasheed is in the last year of his deal.
Morty, good question, what is Wallace worth? On the other hand, I’d be careful dealing with Joe Dumars, he usually ends up on the better end of most deals. Like you told suede (can’t believe I remember that), let’s deal with teams in flux, and less-than-competent management.
I wouldn’t get near Sheed with a 100 foot pole…I literally can’t see a single positive or gain to come of him + Sixers uniform…but will wait for Dannie to write his Sheed rumor article before delving into details on why.
Sorry for the late responses fellas… I considered posting the last couple nights, but was too drunk.
@everyone
Brand and losing pick(s) > Randolph and getting pick(s) imo. Brand is a terrific player.
@BSKI
Few things…
“We know the players we have now. We know the cap space we have now. We know who’s available now. We have very little idea about any of those things in the future.”
I don’t agree that we know what players we have now. Lou, Thad, Smith, Herb Hill, Carney are all too young to be known quantities. We can project cap space pretty easily as well. I can post our outlook on the future cap if you want… I have mapped it out a few times on other boards.
“Even if it is only a two year wait, where will we be? What will our cap situation be then, Joe? How about Andre Miller, Lou Will, Iguodala, and the rest? Who will still be here and how will they be performing? Will we have a more pressing need to fill then?”
Miller is gone or else we have no chance at cap space. We keep the rest of the core intact. I think the fact that a more pressing need might appear supports my argument.
Whats my plan B? I think it is plan A. We use our young assets to get a player to fit our greatest need. Some team is going to want to rebuild… right?
I don’t think we become a contender with Zach. Plain and simple.
@Dannie
If Boozer and Amare aren’t available, someone else will be. Someone always is. The competition remark is valid. Looking around the league, I see few teams that are going to get there though. Next offseason, I see noone really. Memphis doesn’t count because noone wants to go there ever.
I disagree with your Utah assessment. I think they NEED Okur. He is only a bad defender, not horrible like Boozer. Okur spreads the floor for them. They don’t really have any range coming from the 2-3 spots, so they need it to come from Okur imo, unless Ronnie Brewer learns to shoot, which is a real possibility. AK-47 is unmovable I would think unless they dangle the Knicks 2010 first rounder with it. That pick could get them their missing piece though, so I doubt that happens. I think Millsap has a great chance to be a better fit in Utah as well personally, since he can defend.
@Dave T.
I don’t like Zach’s game on the court. I never have. His overall statistics aren’t anything special. Add in the off the court nonsense and I just don’t want him.
Getting Richard Jefferson would be a horrible move imo, unless he can go back in time a couple years and also become a better shooter along the way. They can’t afford him either anyway. Millsap is a great asset as well. I wouldn’t part ways with him.
With regards to Sheed, I think him mentoring Jason Smith would be valuable to happen. Sheed is an incredibly fundamentally sound player in every aspect of the game and is probably going to coach one day. I wouldn’t get him though.
@Lloyd
Adding points to this team isn’t an issue for me. Lou. Thad, and Iggy all well be 20 ppg scorers at some point during their career. Scorers are overrated anyway. I’ll take an Iggy over a one dimensional 25 ppg scorer any day of the week.
@Ricky
I think if you get Zach you extend Miller, meaning no cap space, but they could use Zach’s expiring contract to get someone.
Sorry if any typos. I am running out the door at the moment.
I agree with joe. i wouldnt take randolph and a #1 overall for calvin booth! He has proven to be nothing on and off the court. he is a disease hes fat and out of shape lazy on defense he cant pass the ball, he is just garbage. Every team hes played for has sucked if you put him on a team where hes not the 1 option there is no way he would average 20/10. I believe reggie evans should be as untouchable as any player on the team, he is a work horse who makes barely any money and almost beat sammy for rpg…
none of these guys in the draft are lebron or kobe or wade…its not worth risking the integrity of the team to move up in this draft.
you get brand or j smith or you wait you dont have to risk the team just to make a change, if noone remmebers we made the playoffs this season with the team we have
I see tremendous chemistry issues if we bring in Zach Randolph. I understand people’s view that if we make this trade, we get a PF and a solid guard at the top of the draft (not Eric Gordon, I watched him too much this season and he’s mentally weak, repeatedly failing in the clutch–you need toughness when you reach the playoffs, just look at lamar odom and gasol. mental toughness is something you have, its hard to develop) instead of just getting elton brand. My thing with this rumor is that if they’re going to have to bring in Randolph for the #6, they have to get Bayless, a quick guard who can shoot the ball while also possessing the little traits that go a long way from being a solid player to a star. Unfortunately, Bayless won’t be around at #6 so I just don’t see Randolph being worth moving up for #6.
Lock up AI and sign Brand, then hope a Joe Alexander’s around at 16.
Actually, Russell Westbrook is also an intriguing name at #6. He’s the best defensive guard in this draft and he possesses tremendous length and athleticism. His shootings not the best, but its still better than what we have at guard right now. But still, even with our cap space we have right now, I wouldn’t want this fool in Randolph and his contract on my team.
The thought of Zach Randolph in a sixers uniform just makes my stomach hurt. Yes has talent, but it is wasted on him. Plus that contract, no way. I would love getting the 6th pick, but not if it meant getting Gordon. I am just not sold on him. Augustin or Westbrook I am all for. Brand or Antwon Jamison are a much better option then Randolph. Then draft this JJ Hickson kid and let him develop.
Randolph is not a match with this up-tempo running offense. Did you see how Randolph and Eddy Curry walked down the court all year for the Knicks? Believe me folks, this is a poor fit. Let’s talk about putting the CORRECT pieces together with this RARE cap space…
This deal cannot happen because the Sixers won’t have the $11 million in cap space until July. Even if it could, it’s not worth the risk from the Philly perspective.
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