The two biggest questions or concerns are resigning restricted free agents Andre Iguodala and Louis Williams. Well, those questions have been answered - early. In a conversation with Phil Jasner of the Philadelphia Daily News, Ed Stefanski said about his two biggest free agents:
“I would say, ‘Thank God they’re restricted,’ because we have no intention of not matching any offer from another team,” Stefanski said. - Philly.com
But what does that mean? If someone comes in and offers Iguodala something crazy like 5-years, $75M is Ed willing to match that offer? What if a team decides to pay Lou starting player money in the range of $4-5 million per season? That is more than Willie Green, the current starter, is making. 1. That can’t go over well with Green and 2. Does it really makes sense to pay Williams starter type money when most of agree he isn’t a starting caliber guard on a championship contending team?
Those were my first thoughts after reading that quote. Then I starting thinking of a few more considerations.
- I don’t believe Stefanski would have made that comment if he believed there were teams in the market that could offer Andre Iguodala and Louis Williams more money than the 76ers are willing to pay.
- By making that comment public he is clearly sending a message to the rest of the league that teams have very little chance of stealing these guys from us. That could do two things for the Sixers…
- Scare some teams off who might have thought about going after Iguodala and Williams, therefore increasing the chances of the Sixers signing these guys at the best price for the future of the team because the market is less competitive.
- Negotiations could go smoother and more quickly with less competition. We saw what happened to the Chicago Bulls’ young players this season when having the distraction of contract talk leading up to and during the season. We don’t want any possibility of a lengthy contract battle this summer when clearly both Iguodala and Williams need to be 100% focused on improving their games for the upcoming season.
I also assume Stefanski’s quote means both Iguodala and Williams won’t be signed and traded either. What’s next then? I really believe Ed is playing to win, and win big, in free agency. Meaning he will make every effort to get an impact player to provide inside scoring and rebounding.
But I still have questions about what the 76ers’ next step is for Thaddeus Young and Andre Iguodala position-wise? I think the Sixers need to solidify where Young is going to play most of his minutes so he can focus on refining the skills needed to play that position at a higher level. If the optimal situation is the plan, Young at the SF and Iguodala at the SG, then Andre needs to become more of a threat from behind the arc as well as continue to improve his overall offensive game. I don’t care how good Tayshaun Prince is defensively; no way should the best player on the team be shut down entirely 4 out of 6 games in the playoffs.
This is easily the most anticipated offseason for Sixers fans in recent memory. I am really confident Ed is going to make the right moves this summer to improve the team and build the 76ers into contenders. Are you as confident?
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Pretty pretty confident. I think ES is just trying to head off any other offers, which only a few teams can do without a sign and trade. As far as for what Lou makes, well, who cares what Willie Green thinks, hopefully he is gone. Green + cap space for Lamar Odom is my personal favorite recliner GM trade.
Of course you don’t want to lose those two and not get anything in return, that would be foolish. However, I think neither one is untouchable in terms of sign and trade. Louis won’t be a starting PG on a championship caliber team and we have Young at SF. Also, I’m starting to warm-up to the idea of starting Carney at SG. If you consider Iguodala and Williams as expendable but valuable trading chips, those holes might be plugged more efficiently.
PF should be a priority this offseason but I think both the PG and C position should be looked at as well. Willie Green, Dalembert, and Miller could all be moved and I wouldn’t mind a bit.
If only the Lakers weren’t run by Kobe Bryant would that trade be possible. The black mamba would bite Willie Green’s head off after 2 games. But I don’t think Lamar Odom would fit personality-wise on this team. He has been an on and off type player and doesn’t bring the effort all the time. He is one of those guys with a ridiculous amount of ability at the perfect size and never quite lived up to it. I personally think Kobe is getting the maximum out of him and I am not sure we have a leader or dominant personality on this team that could command/demand the most out of Odom.
Carney is not a starting SG right now IMO. He has good size and his shooting the second half of the season was better but I don’t think he is ready. He is Andre Iguodala with even weaker ball handling skills.
I agree they need to see if there are any takers for Dalembert. But if they don’t trade for another center, who is the Sixers starting center? Jason Smith? I can’t live with that scenario at all. Bare minimum they would have to get another center who can maintain the weak side defense Sammy brought or I think the team is worst off.
It seems like you are prepared to blow the whole team up raro.
recliner,
Tayshaun is great on D, but Andre made it easy by not having an outside game. The Pistons could sag back and give Tay help. Andre must develop an outside game. Once the Pistons forced the 76ers into a halfcourt game, Philly had no prime time scorer.
Williams is important, because he can shoot. Philly needs to find an outside shooter for their starting lineup. Williams may not have the all around game to be that starter.
Morty I love Rodney Carney…as an energetic hustle guy that can both play D, and get some points by his slashing ability as well as shooting the three. But he’s a great bench guy, not someone I think we’d want to ever be in our starting lineup. I’d be fine though including Carney, Lou Williams, Willie Green, Jason Smith, or anyone really in a sign and trade to help us land a true post talent.
I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but I actually think Dalembert should be our one untouchable (especially given my recent posts killing him on the fact he still NEVER BOXES OUT and sucks at weakside defense). We can’t lose Dalembert. He is a good enough defender in the middle that he can alter shots even if he doesn’t block them, is a solid defensive rebounder, plays with energy, and is still young as hell. He’d be the PERFECT compliment to an offensive minded PF (be it Elton Brand, or whomever).
I don’t get the attachment people have to Andre Miller. I love the guy, and he is most definitely the reason we are in the playoffs…but he’s 32 (33?) and it’s just senseless to extend him for 3-4 years when he’s just entering the age where PG’s start rapidly going downhill. He played incredibly for us this year…makes everyone around us better, is a great leader and a pass first guy (all traits I admire)…but I think we need to be realistic and cash the Andre Miller chip in while his stock is high.
There are teams that want/need a veteran PG…we need a guy to groom at this position.
And with Iggy…I still think if we can land him at the 10-12 million range this would be a GREAT thing. He’s being exposed because he is being forced to play something he’s not right now. You get Iguodala next to a true #1 option, and he’d be one of the best all around versatile 2nd or third options in the NBA. We need him, and I’m not very sold (yet!) on the whole “Thad Young will be a superstar!” thing to me…at least not to the point where I’d let Iggy walk with the impression that Thad would be our “man”.
I’ve said it once, will say it again…if we whiff on Brand, Chris Wilcox should be explored. He’s still young, still improving, has shown an improved game every year, and we could probably nab him from Seattle given their youth movement and draft picks. He’d be a cheaper PF option, that while not an all star, would be a nice offensive post player to tag team with the defensive Dalembert. I’d certainly prefer him to Jason Smith (god forbid) someday getting 35 mpg.
I would be very wary of overpaying for secondary players. The new AI is definitely a quality player, but I see him as no more than a great third option on most title teams. The Sixers would need to nab an absolute stud (someone along the lines of a Chris Paul) for me to be comfortable with Iguodala as my second best player (if he’s going to command a salary commensurate to his status on the team).
Dannie, I’m with raro, the Sixers aren’t YOUR team, they’re Mo Cheeks’ team, the question isn’t whether or not Carney is a SG, it’s if Carney is the right SG for the Sixers. I think he is. I think we leave Iggy at SF and keep Thad on the bench. Let’s say we stay with that predictable motion offense that Mo runs. What would spread the floor more, the Carney/Iggy combo or the Iggy/Thad one? Which one defends better, is faster, and has more experience?
Also, I think you’re underestimating how good Carney is going to be next year. The Sixers don’t do a good job of developing players in general, but Mo has done a fantastic job with Carney. He’s taught him that he’s not gonna get playing time unless he busts his butt off every second he’s on the floor. At first that lesson wasn’t sinking in, but in the latter half of the season it finally did, and it showed. Every minute he was on the floor, he contributed with rebounding, clutch shots, energetic defense, and close to 50% 3-point shooting.
I’m not saying it would be a bad thing if the Sixers were your team, I’d actually prefer that to them being Mo’s team (still can’t believe the non-adjustments against Detroit). But consider the organization and the coaching staff before saying whether or not someone is a starter. Another example - Luc Longley at center worked for the Bulls, but not for the teams he was subsequently traded to, the Suns and Knicks. I’m sure you can think of more examples.
Last note: I brought this up on Deep Sixer, but only Morty was willing to tackle the following question: what are the chances that Thaddeus Young is the next Tim Thomas? I’ll tell you what I saw in the Detroit series - great play at first, which made me think, “Oh yeah, Thad’s gonna bring it on, NBA, this is gonna be your official introduction to Mr. Thaddeus Young!” But after that stretch, very, very little, don’t you agree? I really felt like he could’ve done more, and whenever you get that feeling, isn’t it usually about someone like Tim Thomas? Someone with all the talent in the world, but is content with just a few good possessions per game? I don’t get that vibe with any of the other Sixers’ young guys. And this is the guy who everyone has stamped “FUTURE ALL-STAR” on, and thus, untouchable? I think people should be more worried about this…
Sixerzguy - I know it’s not “my” team or any of the other recliner GM’s leaving comments on the blog either. What I said were my thoughts on what I think would work best for the Sixers in context of what they run, the personnel and the coaching staff they have. Just like Raro and you just did. With that said in response to your question “Which one defends better, is faster, and has more experience?” I think Iggy/Carney and Iggy/Thad in those areas are about the same at best and I personally give the edge to Iggy/Thad because of size at the SF position. Tayshaun Prince killed Iggy on defense because he could shoot over the top and post up. That will remain true against most bigger SF in the league. Prince also shut Iggy down offensively as well because of that size. You eliminate those playoff issues (IMO what really matters) with Thad at the small forward and I think the Sixers are a better rebounding team as well. Here is a random stat for you: The best player pair on the 76ers regarding +/- is Thaddeus Young and Andre Iguodala at +174.
Experience is irrelevant you’re talking about a 1 year player and a 2 year player and Carney has the same amount of playoff experience as Thad in terms of games, but half the experience if you consider actual time on the floor in the Detroit series. Speed, Thad would be one of the fastest small forwards in the NBA as well as very athletic. I think that is a fair statement right?
Just as you think I am underestimating Carney I think you are overestimating him. I love Carney defensively at the shooting guard because he has good size, athleticism and effort. But I think you are vastly overestimating his shooting and completely overlooking the rest of his offensive game (lack therof). First - he is a 64% foul shooter in two seasons that bugs the crap out of me and therefore would not trust him in the game late in a 4th quarter. 2008 post All-Star break Carney shot 38% from three (31% for the season) and 42% from the field (40% for the season). He only shot close to 50% in April (only 8 games and 19 attempts) which is hardly a big enough sample size to get excited about IMO. Further, I don’t see any other offensive game from him. He has never been a strong ball handler, or a player that can consistently create his own shot, and I watched a fair amount of him when he was at Memphis. Could that aspect of his game improve? Sure, but I am just less optimistic as you are about it. I think Carney is a perfect back-up SG for the Sixers.
You picked the wrong example with Luc Longley since I probably watched every single Chicago Bulls game when MJ was still there. Luc Longley is the perfect starting center for the Bulls and it’s pretty obvious. He is big enough to be a decent defender and he can get the hell out of MJs way since he can hit the 15-17 foot jumper. That goes for Bill Wennington and Will Purdue as well. Longley was simply the best of the 3-headed center they had.
Here is my take on your last note:
Let’s start with the facts from the Detroit series: 26mpg, 10ppg, 4.5rpg, 1spg, 48% from the field, 20% from three (5 attempts), 86% from the line and most importantly 0.6 turnovers per game.
Lets quickly look at those numbers in context: he scored 10ppg with the Sixers maybe running 1 play per game for him. I think his low rebounding number is directly related to him playing out of position against much bigger and stronger opponents.
What more exactly were you looking for considering his minutes played and lack of offensive play calls?
I think we all agree Tim Thomas had the body and skill set to be an all-star caliber player in the league. The questions with Thomas always surrounded his work ethic, effort and attitude. I don’t have any of those concerns with Thaddeus Young even a little bit. Do you? In comparison to Thomas I do think Young is not as develop on offense as Thomas at all though. But developing skill in a 19-year old with good instincts, great raw talent and a strong work ethic and attitude for the game make me much more confident in Young becoming an all-star caliber player then another Tim Thomas.
I agree with your comment about him being “content with just a few good possessions per game” if what you mean is he is really passive right now. If you are saying he doesn’t have enough drive, or desire then we disagree on that. I just think his opportunities were limited all year and that could be confused as contentment. I have seen countless times when he attacked the offensive boards aggressively on every missed shot, hit the passing lane at the perfect time to get a steal. Great example of this was in that ridiculous lose to the Cleveland Cavs that I was at. (5th bullet)
My biggest issue with Young all season has been passiveness and not going strong at the basket. There were too many times when he could have attempted a dunk and used his athleticism to finish the play or get fouled and instead he went soft with a lay up and/or avoided the contact only to miss some gimmies. But these are things I think will improve as he develops his NBA body and skills around the basket after contact. I just see that as normal for a young guy adjusting to NBA physicality.
Basically no I am not worried about Young becoming the next Tim Thomas mainly because I am not concerned about this character, work ethic, effort or attitude. It think he genuinely wants to get better and has the drive to do so. And that comes from everything I have read, heard, and watched this season. Just my opinion.
Danny is right…Tim Thomas was became the pathetic underachieving Tim Thomas we know because he had no work ethic, no heart, and no desire. Thad Young proved at G-Tech and his rookie year he has an incredible work ethic, is a great lockeroom guy, and is very disciplined and takes criticism from coaching well.
How does saying, “He could have done a little more…” compare anyone to Tim Thomas? This kid is 19 years old…I think he’s been nothing but a pleasant surprise (although back when the draft happened, I personally wanted, and still would have chosen, Kansas’ Julian Wright). Most rookies get the jitters in the playoffs, and are going to make all kinds of mistakes…they need time to learn, grow and come into their own.
Just wanna say first that anything I say is all in the name of good discussion… Also, I can’t write really long paragraph responses here at work, I’m gonna have to take 3~5 sentence shots at what you said.
First off, I did not pick the wrong example with Luc Longley. I think you saying “Luc Longley is the perfect starting center for the Bulls and it’s pretty obvious” supports my point that in most cases, player X is a starter for Team A, but not for Team B, and that general statements that a certain player is an NBA starter shouldn’t be made.
Sixerzguy - always in the name of good discussion!
watching comcast the other nite, and the organization has set a goal for rodney carney to become the exact player that richard hamilton is….so he will need to work on his game—b/c rip is from our area (coatesville) i had the chance to see him play as a young guy and even in college, he killed you with his atleticism, a la rodney carney—but in the nba, rip’s atleticism is there, but he relies more on craftiness now, running off the ball, good ball fakes, and is the best mid-range jump shooter in the league—carney certainly has the motor to run off the screens–if he could improve his mid range game and increase his b-ball IQ a bit, i think he could turn into a similar player…
and i wouldnt be so sure that igoudala is “definitely” a sixer next season—the way he played int eh playoffs, the sixers would be fools to offer him a max contract ($65M)…remember that stefanski has no ties to this guy nor anyone else on the team for that matter—i wouldnt be surprised to see some big moves…
Dannie, I think that with young NBA players TRENDS should be looked at instead of sample size. In Carney’s overall valuation, more weight should be given to what he’s done recently than on how bad he was earlier in the year.
I think we should consider both. You need at least a decent sample size to characterize something as a trend especially in a game where players go on hot and cold streaks often. The sample size helps normalize and distinguish between a real upward or downward trend vs. just another hot or cold streak. If that made sense.
Mole - agree Carney definitely has the size, energy and probably has close to the endurance it takes to play Richard Hamilton still of offensive ball. But the big thing that is different is Rip has always been a very good shooter from anywhere inside this arc and he has just steadily increased his range and smarts using screens. He had great shooting ability to start with.
I don’t think Carney is anywhere near that good of a shooter and I have yet to determine whether he is a good consistent shooter or just a streaky shooter. That is a huge difference in my eyes and something that will take more shot attempts from Carney to really determine.
Brandon - I think Iguodala is definitely a secondary player for the Sixers and only if a current player (Thad Young potentially) develops into a all-star caliber player would Iggy drop down to a 3rd option. With that said he is only 26 and still has time to grow as a player and be a lock #2 guy you can count on without blinking. But I don’t ever see him as the true super star player that can carry a team. Random question what is Iguodala’s highest scoring game in his career? Do you guys even think he is capable of getting 45 in a game if he hasn’t already?
mole, I saw that comcast piece also, and although it sounds like a positive thing, I don’t think it is. I think it’s just another example of this organization lacking originality and vision. WHY do they want him to be more like Rip? Who’s setting screens for him? Does the Sixers’ current personnel understand floor spacing enough to pull off Rip Hamitlon-type plays? Are the Sixers’ passing and timing even good enough?
Sixerzguy - I second that on the screening. I think the 76ers might be the worst screening team I’ve watched this season, sad to say. And in the Detroit series it was a clear factor that lead to the dry spells the Sixers had on offense. They just weren’t coming off for a lot of clean looks, whereas Detroit is probably the best screening team in the league and it seems like Rip is WIDE OPEN every damn play.
Carney needs to develop his game into a defensive stoper and he will get more minutes. He is super athletic and has the size and speed to be able to D up any player in the league. Forget about him bein an offensive threat, he’s not going to develop into that ever.
Mike, I disagree with saying Carney will NEVER be a threat, but it’s definitely an uphill battle for him. But I like that you saw he has the potential to be a defensive stopper, and I wish the Sixers would think similarly with everyone - how many different skills can (player) develop?
I would absolutely love if Carney could develop into “RajaBowen” (yes I just made that up on the fly). Basically a 40% or better three point shooter, defensively could clamp down on PGs, SGs and some SFs. That would be a tremedous asset for the Sixers organization.
Maybe I shouldn’t have said “Never” because that is left to be seen, but in my opinion, I don’t think he will develop his game offensively the way we would like him to. He doesn’t have the ball handling skills to create his own shot and is very erratic with the ball at times. I just don’t see it happening, and would like to see the Sixers coaching staff work with him to become that “RajaBowen” (as Dannie put it) type of player.
lol… Agree on “RajaBowen”…
I think some common sense needs to be applied here with Rodney Carney. If I was to answer the following question, giving myself no real time to think and analyze, if I asked: “Is Rodney Carney ever going to be a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd scoring option on any NBA team?” The easy answer is a no.
Carney’s game has not changed much since college…at Memphis he had turned himself into a super athletic, great defensive player that can score off slashing and get hot from three point land. He came into the L as a gritty college veteran…I haven’t seen him improve his game by leaps and bounds, or add an extra dimension. He’s not a good passer, and his rebounding is pretty crappy for a swingman of his size.
Now, do I think Carney could be a starter on an NBA team? Sure…in fact, I’ll compare him to Anthony Parker on Toronto (games are very dissimilar, how they fit in a system is not). With both Carney and A Parker…you know your team is in BIG trouble if either of these guys are being banked on to be guy #2 in the offense. That said…if you DID have two go to guys, or a third, and you needed that last scorer to give some punch, an extra 10-12 ppg, and bring some specialties, that’s when you’d want a Carney or Anthony Parker getting some PT. A. Parker’s “specials” are his bball IQ, 3 point shooting, and passing…Carney is his defense, slashing, and streaky 3’s.
The obvious problem here is that if Carney were to start at SG…he becomes our #2 option…and that would be the single most pathetic thing in the entire NBA lol. This guy has great potential to be an off the bench sparkplug…that can D up the hell out of people, score, and hit some threes. Or to be that “4th” starter scoring option…but our team does not have the personel needed to have Carney succeed where he gets 30 mpg. Love the guy in the 18 -25 mpg mode though…and in fact I think what we should do is to groom Lou Williams and Rodney Carney to be our bench mob…one guard and one swingman that can come in, bring some hustle and energy and light it up for a bit. It would give us a great bench (and a cheap one) going into the future.
Also, about his shooting…Carney is not a “shooter”. By that I mean…he can hit threes, in fact can get very hot from outside…but he has no midrange game to speak of at all, and he in no way is a Korver, Kapono, Reddick type talent as far as having a shooting stroke. He’s one of these DeShawn Stevenson types that isn’t a pure shooter, can’t hit a J from 15 feet, but can shoot 36 - 39% from 3 point land without actually having a true, reliable shot with great form.
Hey Pete, how about a redo of your “Philadelphia Spurs” post?
Dave T, first off, Andre Miller is our #1 scoring option, Iggy is #2, making Carney, if he started, our #3. Second, I agree that this year’s Carney wasn’t that great, but with two years of experience and Mo’s guidance under his belt he’s going to be much better next year than he was this year. In your own words, rookies “…need time to learn, grow and come into their own.” I guess I see a higher ceiling for Carney than you do.
Dave T and Sixerzguy - Compromise: I would say A. Miller and A. Iguodala are scoring option #1 a and b rather then categorizing them as #1 and #2.
It changes game to game and I would lean toward Iggy because he gets the ball at the end of games. At least to my memory very rarely did they go to Miller in end game situations.
By they way the guys on Deep Sixer are killing me with the Roy Hibbert talk and campaign for him to be a Sixers. I guess I am going to have to write another post about why I don’t like that idea.
“eh” to Roy Hibbert.
Last year the “Big men we don’t want under any circumstances” award went to Josh McRoberts and Aaron Gray (although Gray, in his defense, did wind up having a decent rookie year).
This year the award goes to: Roy Hibbert, Hasheem Thabeet. I think by now Hibbert has proved the true stiff he is capable of being…any big man that can’t dominate or take over at the college level is just going to get mauled at the pro level. Although, I will say he’s transformed his game over the years and has really improved…but the guy just is not worthy of wasting a 1st round pick on in any way shape or form.
And thank goodness Thabeet is staying at UConn. I hate him. One of the lowest bball IQ’s and most raw, unmotivated players I have ever seen. Quite possibly the single worst pick setter in college basketball, horrendous defense, only offense is close putbacks…can’t stand him lol. People think he’s talented because of his height, and he blocks shots. Well, he’s going to be the bust of the decade unless he 180’s his game over the century.
*over the summer.