Sixers got their asses kicked against last night by the Jazz. They basically quit in the 4th quarter. And EVERYONE, players, coaches and management all look and sound completely lost as to what the hell is going on. Doesn’t get any easier tomorrow either.
Is there any chance the light bulb with turn on for anyone in this franchise this season?
The Players
At what point do you give up on these players and start cleaning house?
I personally don’t think we at all have the raw talent, both in terms of overall talent or mix of talent on this roster to be anything worth getting excited about as a team. I’ve thought this for a long time and I think most of the regulars knows this. I am on the other side of of the fence to someone like Brian at Depressed Fan who actually likes many of the players on this team.
I don’t.
I think some of the players are alright but that’s about it. No one is untouchable in terms of moving them in my mind. I think they are weak mentally and lack winning skills and toughness.
The Coach
At what point do you fire the coach, if that point hasn’t already come and gone?
Eddie Jordan needs to go. He is a loser. Forget the 29 games as the Sixers coach. He was a loser before coming here and is proving this still.
All I ask of a coach is to maximize the players he has.
I fully understand Jordan can’t do anything about the players he has, I don’t believe he has that level of power. Now “maxmize” might not equate to a lot of wins but you can tell by the way the team plays and monitoring individual player improvement if the coach is doing a good job or not. I’ve watched plenty under talented teams compete and fight until they got the talent necessary to win. Jordan isn’t doing that or getting that out of this team.
This team needs a Larry Brown type coach, someone who does well with average talent and knows how to teach young players and maximize what he has until he gets the right guys for him. OR they need to bring in an up and coming coach with some perceived potential and stick with him.
You don’t bring Eddie Jordan in here to win later or to be a part of a rebuilding team. You bring in someone with a track record for rebuilding and teaching or you bring in a person new to the head coaching ranks and just stick with him through the process.
The GM
What is this team?
Stefanski has been a gigantic fail as GM. His decisions range from solid (Kapono, drafting of Speights) to questionable (Elton Brand) to outright bad (Eddie Jordan).
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?
Does he even know?
In all the interviews I’ve heard he says contradictory things with regularity and his moves don’t mesh either. One moment he is talking about youth and growing. The next minute he is bringing an aging PF coming off a serious injury to his already non-explosive lower body. Let’s Miller walk and plans to run with Lou and a rookie at point. Then starts talking again about having to wait for young players to develop before getting to the next level.
He clearly doesn’t have a coherent plan or grasp on what is needed to turn this club into a winner.
Dude, are we rebuilding? Competing for something of substance? Waiting? What? We can’t be all of those things at the same time.
Pick one and let that decision drive all decisions.
Also, where the hell are you Stefanski? You are hiding and that’s weak. Any season ticket holders out there? Has he been communicating with you?
The team is the 2nd worst team in the NBA right now. The coach doesn’t look like he has a clue. The players not only look like they don’t have clue but they are verbalizing it in the media as well as calling each other and the coach out directly and indirectly. And the GM is no where to be found.
To make matters worse the local media has absolutely nothing to report on the whole situation. Where is the insider information? The rumors? In fact they go so far as to cover bullshit surrounding the team rather than saying nothing at all. It’s a joke. Everything Sixers (outside of their charitable giving and community service) is a damn joke.
I have a couple questions for you:
- Are you still watching the Sixers religiously, if at all? (we already know no one is going to the games)
- As far as Sixers commentary, what are you interested in reading/discussing?
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{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }
Have not been up on the Sixers schedule lately like I used too. Last night I realized they were on and turned the game on in the late 3rd quarter and after watching for about 15 20 mins turned the game off they looked awful. Haven’t watched a game since the celtics game.
I would be interested in trade rumors and draft talk thats about it. This season is a wrap. I say leave jordan here for at least the rest of the year and keep on losing. We get a top 5 pick and Sammy D in the last year of his contract next year. Stefanski has to go with Jordan because I dont want him making any of the decisions next year. He will be making desperate moves not ones that will benefit the team in the long run.
Dannie, I would like to know how you feel about a guy having both G.M. and coaching titles, I don!t but it may be a way of luring somebody here by giving ultimate power [Van Gundy?]. Who are the unknown candidates throughout the league that may come here for little money to gain head coaching experience and do what needs to be done. What does E.S. make , and would Snider let him go? I am higher on our talent level than you, but would move 3 of our young players if a star level talent [M.Ellis?] could be acquired and built around because I agree with you that you need to get your star in place first. Is it time to move Iggy? I love what he brings but he also brings a lot back in a deal. Does Elton look appealing if he continues to play well and teams saving cap space run out of options this summer? That is about all I have; I D.V.R. ed last nights game and will watch it today, though I am not sure why.
I watch every game (DVR), but I’m grasping at straws now in terms of what I’m hoping to see. I’m beyond expecting wins or good offensive or defensive execution. I’d like to see player development, but its becoming clear that its hard for young players to improve on a team that is imploding and absent of leadership. Last week I hit rock bottom and called for the “nuclear option” of firing the Eds and trading Iguodala and Brand (http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2009-12-23/The-Sixers-Beyond-EJ-Time-for-the-Nuclear-Option…-by-tk76)
I don’t want to just get angry after losses. In general if Jrue, Thad or Speights show some promise I’m happy- but as the team gets worse its harder to know what to look for. Feels very much like the weeks befoer AI was traded 3 years ago.
BTW, credit (or pity) to the loyal fans still watching. At some point when they are good it will be even more rewarding having watched them come all the way from rock bottom. The most exciting time as a fan is when a team is starting to ascend, and they can’t go much lower.
I know I got less enjoyment out of the Phillies winning it all because I had abandoned them back around the strike. There is nothing wrong with waiting to jump on the bandwagon, but you do get less joy from winning when you only root for teams that you would expect to win.
I am among the ones who think that this a prettty good roster with a lot of talent and even more upside. I predicted 43 W before the season started and was thinking about a progressive rise in the next 2-3 years.
Boy I was wrong. But I am not ready to give up on these players (except some marginal ones, like Jason Smith, or Carney, they can go), I would like to see them performing under a coach. A real one.
Dannie you believe(d) that this Sixers’ roster would have been at 7-22 at this point of the season? I don’t think so, as long as you valued the players less then me, Brian or other fans do/did.
They surely have limits, but there is no way a team with Iguodala, Brand, Young, Williams etc etc is 15 games under the .500 mark, when Houston or OKC are above, and Milwaukee is 5 W above us. Compare the rosters and you’ll see that there is something wrong.
Not blaming only Jordan, of course, I ripped the players nearly just as many times and said that coach’s many shortcomings should not hide the fact that many players are underperforming.
Sorry Danny, wrote the comment before reading the GM part. Solid analysis there, I agree 100%.
I think Stefanski’s long silence is anticipating some important decisions
Dannie, I just posted at some length on last thread (#36). Would you transfer it to this one to add to the discussion? Thanks.
Suede – I strongly dislike one individual:
I think there is just to much to do in both positions for one individual.
I think all the good organizations the coach and GM have a really strong working relationship when player decisions are concerned. They don’t necessarily have to get a long great (Phil Jackson with both Buss now and Krause before) but the two fully understand what it takes to win and the coach can provide insight about what he thinks will help the team win. But having a different person make that decision is important because there is always a filter in place so a coach doesn’t just go crazy with the power.
Like I am sure Doc, Pop, Phil, Sloan all have vital input in player decisions but they aren’t making the final call.
Ricky – No I didn’t think the players were THIS bad but I never thought they were much better than a .500 team at best and a fringe playoff team likely to lose in the first round as currently assembled.
In our season preview we had them at a 7th seed in the East and middle of the pack in the NBA with a 43-39 record.
I thought if Jrue played he could help defensively. I hoped Brand would have a positive impact and Thad and Speights would improve.
A few things happened that I think no one expected or that people were expecting that hasn’t panned out:
1. The impact of Andre Miller’s loss
This is both Stefanski and Eddie Jordan’s fault. Jordan conned Stefanski into believing he doesn’t need a pure, heady point guard to run an NBA offense and that the “system” is the key more so than the players.
They believe a team could win with no pure passer on the perimeter (entire roster?) and not enough good passers on the roster in general. Can’t have good ball movement with guys that 1. don’t like the pass and/or 2. are incapable of executing smart/effective passes
I thought this would hurt offensively but not this bad. That was my underestimation and overestimation of Eddie Jordan’s ability to teach these players how to play good offense.
This is mainly because the players are pretty dumb and there is no leader to dictate the action effectively so shit goes the hell with a bunch of individuals doing their own thing.
2. The coaching style and ineptness of Eddie Jordan
Look I am not blaming Jordan for all the issues. The players are too soft and lack mental toughness and smarts. They don’t have any grit.
BUT you combine that with a coach who is equally as bad, if not worse than these mediocre players you get 7-22.
On top of that you have a coach whose focus and background is on offense and that’s just not the right way to win games in the NBA, especially with a team without a strong point guard/playmaker or strong shooters.
3. Thad is the same player, Speights is the same player, Iguodala is the same player, Lou is the same player
Where is the development? Particularly all the talk about who all the playoff experience will help these young players. I call bullshit on that.
Thad is still a scorer only. Speights is still a scorer only. Iguodala is the same dude. Lou is still a scorer only.
We don’t have enough defense. We don’t have enough two way players.
4. Look at who the veterans are (5 years or more experience)
Brand, Sam, Iguodala, Ivey, Kapono, Green, Brezec and now Iverson
Nuff said
Dannie, I’m not backing Jordan necessarily (didn’t like the hire; reread my early comments if you doubt it), am just not digging a hole for him with a backhoe (as many seem bent to do) at this point – 29 gms in – because unprepared-for-success players litter the roster and, by sad necessity, the playing floor. If anyone should catch the brunt of the blame it is the roster creationist, Stefanski. And a generous helping of the rap should be heaped at the feet of Brand, Iguodala and Dalembert – the wealthiest players on the roster who gladly take the loot but who fail miserably as team leaders/spiritual wellsprings and who fail as dependable rallying figures, in both play and demeanor. Hefty contracts imply hefty responsibilities, like it or not.
This team IS NOT comparable in composition to last year’s, thus a “predictable track record” is out the window. Gone – veterans Miller, Evans, Ratliff, Marshall, Rush; arrived – veterans “Kaboom” Kapono (stiff), Bresac (invisible), Carney
(recycled), raw rookie Holiday. Increased responsibility – Williams (uh oh), Speights (uh oh). Injury returns: Brand (grandstander; malcontent; recent subversive voice; underwhelming player), Smith (stiff). Injuries: Williams, Speights, Brand. Homecoming concert pause: Iverson.
Some different and extenuating circumstances and conditions have entered since last Spring’s Magic Series finale meltdown. Jordan is just one of them. I’m not willing to scapegoat him like some are; once hired, deserves more of a chance than 1/3 of a year. His tenure to date has certainly been unimpressive. On the other hand, I watched the guy play guard well for a Rutgers team that ran the table in ‘76 regular season, made Final Four. I’m confident that Jordan’s not a basketball dunce like some of his charges. And if time isn’t a curative, change will eventually take place.
It’s a player’s league, isn’t that the conventional wisdom? Giddyup, 76ers players.
The won-loss record is definitely a group effort; What has hurt this team more, the loss of Miller or our new coach, who could lessen Miller!s loss by playing the one true p.g. [Holliday] more minutes.
Speights response to Brand’s comments.
I called for a lousy start and then a second half run. But nobody thought they would start this lousy. And I have yet to see “green shoots of a recovery.” No doubt in my mind they’ll make a late run (triggered by a vet like AI or after a trade) and end up with the 7th-10th pick.
-I think Eddie Jordan is bad, but not as bad as it seems. He is a headstrong believer in his system (not a bad thing if the system is worthwhile- which is debatable.) I think he is willing to “break down” the players so that he can build them back up into his system. His previous 1st years with a team he averaged 25 wins- but those teams were not .500 playoff teams the year prior.
-Teams can play good or bad based on mentality, coaching, system, motivation. Compare how the Magic and Sixers played during there series (or the Pistons sseries the year before.). Comparing the teams at the beginning and end of that series was night and day, even though the talent and players did not change. The Magic finally asserted their will and the Sixers backed down in the last game. Shows how the Sixers can go from looking like world beater to looking like garbage over the course of a few games.
Unfortunately only the garbage version showed up this year. I agree with Fagan that this was due to a combination of lack of leadership on and off the court and poor mental strength of the players: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/7-22.html
Sixers epic fail, go Phils
Dannie, Thanks for placement adjustment.
On tonight’s former Sixer: I was all for letting Miller walk. Thought he dominated the ball to average results, got scorched on D too often, and contract expectations were too weighty. As for his going’s effect on Sixers, I suppose the loss of his headiness and intangible “swagger” factor (that Portland’s McMillan referred to in today’s article by Kate Fagan) has had its cost on the court. Still, 41-41 and a playoff fizzle is nothing to write to Grandma about. He worked as an illusionist and a pacifier, now at least the Sixers’ front office is forced to confront the realities of their talent base.
Sixers team: FG % .446 3 % .339 Def. Rbs. 28.4 Assists 19.7
opponents: .476 .422 30.3 22.4
Conclusion: 76ers in need of better shooters, rebounders, passers; outside of that, going great guns. A different head coach may have positive sway on above numbers, but that’s debatable.
addendum to #16 … insert ’steadily smart and willing defenders’ (a crucial team need and obvious lack) to “Conclusion”
Jumpin, A.Miller gave your boy Willie props, did you read it?
Dannie, D.V.R. ed Texas/ N.Carolina game and watched it recently, a couple of comments. E.Davis seemed like the only Carolina big that didn!t back down against Texas!s physical play and until that game he reminded me of B.Wright. Avery Bradley looked real good ,though a small 2 guard isn!t something high on my wish list. Pittman is a beast but I wonder if once he gets a big money contract if the hunger leaves him. If you had a choice of Aldrich or Henry who would YOU pick for this team?
Leadership, suede, leadership. (But we already knew that.) In spite of it, the ship be sinkin’. All hands on deck tonight in the Rose Garden. Miller’s presence and comments – “[Some Sixers] didn’t go to college; [with Princeton offense] gotta think” - may stoke his formers to increased intensity.
You sayin L.Will. may try to defend, yuk yuk.
Lou Williams & defense: Do not drive a motor vehicle or operate machinery after use.
its the one winnable game on their schedule because Portland, having lost Pryzbilla (Oden a non factor anyway) is playing small and seemingly wont give the 6ers much headache on the glass. and they are more likely to take the 6ers lightly unlike the Kings who always play with a chip on their shoulder. the other three teams, no chance.
Suede – I’d take Henry. He is good now and has more potential. Kid is shooting 48% from three and 53% from the field. He is 6-7 and can play 2 or 3.
I hate that he is a little like Thad right now in that he isn’t really a playmaker and his rebounding numbers aren’t as good as Wesley Johnson’s. But he defended the hell out of Manny Harris (who too his credit still had a decent game offensively) last week and that really got me interested in him. Harris is tough offensively and Henry really took the challenge to dog him and make him work for his points.
I like Henry a lot.
jkay – That is beyond wishful thinking. Portland has rallied around each other after the losses of those guys and are playing about as good as anyone in the NBA right now. Four wins in a row:
You have a crash course between a team playing extremely well and a team infighting and lost.
Winnable game? Huh? I think people need to start quantifying “winnable.” Every game is “winnable.”
HOW winnable is it?
He reminds me of Harden a bit, smooth and under control offensively. Is W.Johnson more of a 3/4 or 3/2 ? Was checking out 2 guards on draft express and will try to watch certain teams as the year goes on; Bouldin, Landesberg and Hopson [Tenn.] along with Harris are intriguing. Is there any way you would take Favors over Wall? I think I know your answer but just curious.
Suede - Three big differences between Henry and Harden:
I 100% think Johnson is a 2-3 and is NO WAY a “stretch PF”
WALL
What was the number one reason in hiring Eddie Jordan?
To fit Elton Brand into a system in which he can play cohesively with the other players?
What if we never signed Brand? What if we got a player that easily fits into our transition style team such as Josh Smith?
Smith provides toughness, defense (not lock down), Blocks/Steals that ignite fast breaks, rebounding, and has really grown as a player this season with the Hawks. He no longer is jacking up 3’s like he is Ray Allen and is playing very well.
How much better or worse would we be if we never got Brand, but instead got Smith? The fact that Stefanski is hiding behind all the decisions he made to get this team to this point, makes me sick. I think something needs to happen before the season ends… whether it’s a trade or the firing of EJ. Something to kick start this team into a 2nd half run like the last two seasons.
Looking at Okl. City!s boxscore this week makes me very envious; Harden AND Maynor off the bench, impressive. Watching Westfall and Evan!s affect on Sacramento!s record should give us hope if the right player and coach are added to this group. I just wish I had more faith in E.S. to get it done.
Guest, was Smith ever REALLY an option? Atlanta and us are really an interesting comparison though: We get rid of Miller, they keep Bibby; we get rid of cheeks, they hang in with Woodson; they resign a young 3, M.Williams, that hasn!t lived up to the hype and we don!t play our young 3 ,Thad, at his natural position; they get a stud defensive big in the draft, Horford , and we try to get him in f.a., Elton, and he may still become close to what we wanted.
After much humble pie (20 of 24), pride’s gotta kick into overdrive for one 48 min. surge, one of these West Coast nights, doesn’t it? Confidence has to be fragile at this point but odds of a drubbing by Portland are slim imo. Last year, if I recall correctly, Roy was held in check.
Didn’t know Portland was Cortez the Conqueror of late; 4 impressive pelts for a team missing a couple of its big men.
Yes, Josh Smith was an option.
He was an option until Atlanta matched the SIXERS offer. Memphis tossed a low ball offer that played right into the Hawks hands. It was a gift. No pressure at all.
I think the perception is that Atlanta would match any offer just because they said they would match any offer. But no one can know until they were put to the test and up against it.
What would Atlanta have done is Stefanski did one of two things:
Two options.
Stefanski didn’t want to gamble though. He knew any offer to Smith would take 7 days to go through most likely and that would mean they couldn’t make the offer to Smith and if it failed still turn around and get Brand.
And at the end of the day, you end up with either Smith or a lower payroll on a team that can’t sell tickets to support the payroll as it is now.
Smith was an option if Stefanski created the option by putting the Hawks to the test.
So Brand was an impulse buy of a sort, given that Stefanski extended a contract to him because Smith offer & resolution would require time and the risk of signing neither. Let that be a lesson to you young economists (you too, suede).
read “a Brand on hand isn’t worth Smith in Atlanta“
I am not too upset with not getting him, jumpin. He, to me, is reason #4 why the hawks are where they are behind Johnson, Horford, and Bibby. A jump shooting 4 who isn!t a good jumpshooter. Though his recent refusal to throw up 3#s is a positive and he is a good help defender though not the best man on man type. Dannie, I doubt Atlanta lets him go but your right about E.S. hesitating but with our new coach I have this vision of adding more ugly jump shots to the mix.
suede, Would love to have seen Smith on Sixers. A bold talent. Smith/Brand = Now/Then (+ misfit)
Suede - I can’t at all agree with you on that.
#4? Have you been paying much attention to that team or just assuming that is the case?
I think the biggest improvement this season has been because of Smith. Forget that his numbers are all up. His attitude has changed. He’s grown as a player and he’s bought into what Mike Woodson wants him to do and what the team needs him to do to win.
If I had to point to two things – 3 three point attempts all season. That’s coming off seasons where he shot 87, 99, 152, 110. Increased assists to 4 per 36 minutes from a career number of 2.9.
More passing, less three point shooting, more rebounding a defense, higher field goal percentage.
It finally click for him. He knows his role and how he should be playing as a PF, what his strengths are and what his weaknesses are and he is playing to them.
Oh yeah he is now 24 compared to Brand being 30.
I was happy when we got Brand and actually preferred him over Smith for two main reasons:
Now, Smith is on the right track and the Sixers are not and Brand is a waste in this situation now.
I remember thinking that both seemed risky to give huge contracts. But I was leaning toward Smith because the worst case was better. If Smith was a poor fit it you could always trade him for value since he is young and talented. If Brand did not work you were stuck with him.
At the time I was hoping they could be creative and use the cap space in some sort of one sided trade. Or worse case do what the Clippers did and trade for Camby (with his 2010 expiring) for a 2nd rounder.
It’s hard to judge ES too harshly for swinging for the fences. Criticism should be more that he misjudged that the team was ready to win right away.
I know it seems strange deciding between 2 players based on worst case, but it was hard to know which player would be the better fit. Brand filled their biggest weakness but at the risk of hurting chemistry. While Smith reinforced their strengths without addressing the weaknesses.
Also, as a fan who likes fast paced basketball, the thught of Lou/Iguodala/Thad/Sam sounded like a recipe for exciting basketball. Exciting does not always mean winning, but it is fun to watch.
My original thought was without Brand, there is no Jordan. Without Jordan, we are still a young team on the inner edge of the playoff picture (in my opinion). Even if Smith doesn’t make us that much better than Brand does… history is rewritten because we might not fire Cheeks, and we most likely would never hire Jordan.
All of that is just pointless “what if” talk… but it is worth noticing how much Smith and the Hawks have grown into a contender… something we were looking to do by signing Brand.
Dannie, don’t worry, there will always be stuff to talk about with the Sixers. Here’s what’s been on my mind recently:
“As always with the Grizzlies, there’s a problem looming: Rudy Gay (playing well) has moved into the deadly Iguodala Zone for nonfranchise players who will get overpaid and, even worse, start believing this makes them franchise players.” That’s from Bill Simmons’ latest. I chuckled and didn’t give it a second thought, but then I skimmed through Depressed Fan’s “Iguodala is NOT Overpaid” and remembered that there was a recent discussion on Iguodala here, and then that second thought came, along with a third.
second thought - because of Simmons and team blogs like this, are GMs more hesitant to make trades than they were before? Are they deathly afraid of a player they ship out unexpectedly blossoming in a new place because of the criticism they’ll receive? Are they always looking to be on the winning end of trades, like how Mitch Kupchack fleeced Pau Gasol from Memphis? I really hope that’s not the case, because I think players constantly moving from one team to another is really good for the league. Fans love player movement, both good and bad, and it’s something that generates interest in their teams, more so in the NBA than in any other sport. For me, the biggest reason player movement is important is because it seems like A LOT of players bounce around until they find just the right situation for them, and this can produce All-Stars (like Caron Butler) and solid role players (Eddie House). I think there are A LOT of players right now who really need to be in different situations; off the top of my head:
+ the entire Warriors team except for Ellis, Morrow and Biedrins
+ T-Wolves’ Rubio and Kevin Love
+ Sixers’ Jason Smith – I don’t think he’s Mark Madsen quite yet
+ Yao Ming – simply put, the Rockets should’ve gotten somewhere with him already; I say give him a chance in the Eastern Conference; Dalembert & Green for Yao works money-wise
+ Jeff Green is good in OKC, but I think he can be even better separated from Durant and Westbrook
third thought – Simmons assumes that Rudy Gay “will get overpaid” – where does that assumption come from? Are the consequences of losing Rudy Gay or a similar “Iguodala Zone” player that dire? I haven’t gone beyond thinking about it this way: if a team’s goal is to acquire as much talent as you can, then you shouldn’t do anything to limit the how much talent you can acquire. I don’t think Iguodala does that, I think there’s a lot of winning basketball in his game, and if you started from scratch and had Iguodala and his contract and nothing else, you could build a championship team. If you were starting out with Rudy Gay and an Iguodala-like contract, I don’t see how you could build a championship team from that – if that’s the definition of the “Iguodala Zone”, then I think Bill Simmons chose the wrong guy to name it after.
@ Dannie (late reply, sorry)
We had basically the same opinion of his team before the season started then, both of us predicting 43 W.
Only few “adjustments” to your points, that I can subscribe for a good 80%.
1) Loss of Andre Miller. You are talking to a big fan of Miller but I was ok with letting him go, the move then made some sense, for financial and basketball reasons (no need of a pure PG in EJ’s ’system’ etc etc)
2) agree 100%
3) agree, I don’t see much improvement in these players either. I am probably just a little bit more patient with you, considering that these guys are in their 3rd-2nd season. I think the emphasis that over the summer was put in the “playoffs experience for the young guys” point was meant mainly thinking about the next playoffs appeareance
4) completely true
read it “more patient THAN you”, not “with” you, sorry
Josh was an option. Boozer didn’t want to stay in Utah so they signed Milsap instead knowing Boozer would opt out. Why not go after him? I love the jazz offense and I agree with Dannie why don’t more teams run it that style. I pictured this offense being that style, pick and roll, backdoor cuts with a 4-man able to spot up and hit the jumper. This collection of players is worse than the Jeff Hornacek era. (not much of an era). Get rid of this entire staff except McKie and go with an interim coach. Start this mess all over. Ed S., isn’t a good GM its obvious. Somebody has to step in and safe this franchise. Somebody that cares.
save this franchise. Geez, I’m frustrated.
Couple questions for you Zack and all.
We know Iguodala is a second tier player at best. He isn’t a build your team around him and his dominant strengths and weakness, franchise player. He is a supplementary player whether that’s a second or third fiddle I don’t care to distinguish right now.
Hypothetical, how does he compare to other non-elite, non-franchise players who have been in the finals recently?
Dannie, I just don!t think Smith is a 15 mill. a year player, in fact I don!t think he is better than Iggy, just my opinion. I think there are a lot of maybes to the above question. He makes a lot of those teams better defensively but other people would have to score a little more. For Pierce for example, Garnett and Allen would be the top option in end of game situations .
i’ll tell you who on that list i would rather have as piece to a championship puzzle:
pierce, allen, ginobili, josh howard, rip hamilton, rashad lewis maybe.
i think i prefer iguodala to RJeff, jason terry, odom, and turkoglu.
i dont think very highly of iguodala at his current salary, but im trying to ignore that aspect now. the guys on the first list i think bring more to the table AND do not bring as many negatives. what i dislike most about Iguodala is terrible shot selection. in my mind that really hurts a team when he is on the floor. i would certainly feel more confortable to the ball in any one of those players hands at the end of a game./
Also with more talent around him [Iggy] and better coaching along with a better defensive system he may develop into a Pippen clone.
Brand is 31 in early March. That’s old for a plowhorse who tilled NBA fields early (age 20). His defensive rebounding is way down compared to last season.
The gifted and energetic Smith seemed to enjoy the ‘08 summer courtship, appeared to want to play here. My take is Stefanski didn’t want to gamble on
Smith’s perceived prickly or erratic personality. Chose the neater, more
predictable Brand, a Dukie of fine repute. (And then fate’s irony set in.) Lost the ’better talent-and-upside’ sweepstake due to a conservative lean.
Jumpin, I won!t rip E.S. for that, as Dannie said there have been off the court issues since high school with Smith. He seems to have turned the corner in that respect but I just don!t know how good a fit he is here. He has a legit #1 scoring option, a legit low post threat and a legit 3pt. shooting p.g., three things this team doesn!t have if you discount Brand .
Suede – I think you are missing the central point of the question.
It’s not whether Smith is a $15M player in of itself. It’s is he a better option as a $15M per year player if the alternative is Brand?
Right now Brand is a jumpshooting, face-up power forward. The same compliant people have at Smith.
Smith is better defensively at this stage IMO and comparable rebounding the ball. In fact the only area Brand is better right now is FT%.
Stats
Now if you say okay Smith isn’t a $15M player than I think you have to admit that neither is Brand at this stage right?
Superimposed, Iguodala is a wrench in all of mentioned champion’s works, unless corraled and explicitly directed regarding role and parameters. Due to crazy shot selection and a streak of unpredictabilty, he would improve upon none of the listed imo.
Other than age, I like Brand more and hope we get a coach in here that can show that. But out of the 3 options you mentioned, Brand,Smith or not spending, I take #3 without a doubt. Dannie I just think we would be a real ugly offensive team that could be stopped easily with no low post threat, outside shooting and good decision making because our G.M. refused to get a coach that could have used this teams athletism as a weapon. In answer to your earlier statement I think the additions of Crawford, Joe Smith and Teague have as much to do with their improved record as J.Smith!s play, but he has played better this year.