With Dannie playing ball tonight, I’m in charge of the game notes for the Sixers. In all 4 games this year, the Sixers have come out strong and in 2 they have given up their lead, and in the other 2, they’ve blown out the competition. Tonight, they delivered a serious beat-down on an overmatched Kings squad, winning 125-91 and resting their starters for the entire 4th quarter. They were impressive in every aspect of the game: shooting well, forcing turnovers, and playing unselfish basketball.
Just a couple notes on the game, and then I’ll let you guys do the talking.
- The most important thing I’ve seen so far this year is that both Young and Williams seem to have improved. I was worried that we were getting too excited about the pair, and they might be expected to do too much this year, but it looks like they could even exceed our expectations.
- I’m not sure where Iguodala fits in with this team. And that is a problem. He’s not playing poorly and was a lot more involved in the 2nd half. But, with Brand getting more touches in the low post, he’s not getting as many shots. We aren’t fastbreaking as much so far, so he hasn’t been getting a lot of transition points. And, he’s being flat-out out-played by the impossibly smooth Thaddeus Young:
Thad: 15.3 ppg, 57.8 FG%, 4.5 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.3 spg, 28.5 mpg
Dre: 12.0 ppg, 42.8 FG%, 4.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.8 spg, 36.5 mpg
If this team is going to be as good as many think, Cheeks is going to need to find a way to utilize Iguodala’s very expensive talents.
- It was very interesting to see Marreese Speights come in and play some meaningful minutes. He certainly has a lot of talent, and it would be great if he could be a solid contributor a la Young last season, by the end of the year. Everyone was concerned about his effort, but that really doesn’t seem to be an issue. He showed a lot of emotion (and athleticism) after stealing the inbound pass to end the first half.
- Lou Williams is the most exciting Sixers’ player since Iverson. He is absolutely unstoppbale off the dribble and can finish with the best of them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him lead this team in scoring next year, and I will almost guarantee he will if Miller leaves.
- One thing about this team that I like is that there isn’t one player that could get hurt and ruin the team’s season. During the Iverson years, if he was out, we were pretty much done. This year, if anyone gets hurt, we have enough talent and depth to stay afloat until they return. It was even great to see Rush and Marshall light it up when they got in the game.
- A couple notes on the Kings: With the exception of Jason Thompson, there is nothing I would be terribly excited about if they were my team. I thought that Kevin Martin was a 25ppg scorer? They didn’t exactly run their offense through him. And perhaps the most surprising development of the night? Spencer Hawes shoots 3’s!!
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{ 29 comments… read them below or add one }
Pete, I think Iggy has to find a way to contribute more so than Mo finding a way to use him. Morty, disagree about Willie and L.Will. not working together from an earlier comment; they seem to be trying to defend and Mo, in the last 2 games made a point of having Thad out there with them to allow them to kick it out to a shooter on their drives to the hoop.I wish Kareem and Donyell would have saved some of those threes for another night.It is only 4 games but Willie is playing well and before tonight filling the boxscore [20 min.,9 pts., 2 reb.,2 ass.,1 steal and 1 block; not bad.
Iggy’s is not a No. 2 scorer because of his relatively weak mid/long range game and tendency to turn the ball over. He does a little of everything and is best when he compliments — like he did tonight. I have never been comfortable with the ball in his hands to take critical shots at end of games. However, if we forget about how much money he makes and not expect/demand high ppg, he can be a very important piece of a winning team. And I can be happy with that.
After 4 games Andre Iguodala is probably the 6th or 7th best player depending on your opinion of Sammy.
I am going to let this play out for probably a quarter of the season or so but right now I have an idea it won’t be long before I write a post about Iguodala and Young completely swapping roles. For a while everyone was shooting for Thad to become a better version of Tayshaun Prince for the Sixers. Now I actually think that role might be better suited for Iguodala (minus the $80 million).
I don’t trust him with the ball ever, let alone in late game situations. And right now his offensive game doesn’t lend itself well to running lots of plays for him on this team as currently constructed. He is an ok mid-range shooter, a good penetrator, a poor three-point shooter, a weak post up player and an unpolished iso player. I am still trying to figure out how to work a player with those characteristics into the Sixers offense.
About the game, from what I saw and heard on the radio Jason Thompson looks like a real player and very versatile for a big man. Over time he will make the choice to select him at 12 not look like a reach.
How is Thad scoring like this only being in an “opportunity scorer” role? He seems to take advantage of ever single offensive touch he gets.
Kareem Rush’s stroke is flawless. Every time I see him shoot it looks like he can’t miss. He needs to be on the court more and with Brand. Right now the way guys are playing he should be taking minutes from Iguodala to help take advantage of Brand being double teamed so much. If only we had a coach that played guys solely on production and not pay grade or perceived value.
Good job by the Sixers to pound a team they are suppose to pound. By the looks of things we should see this often against the bottom feeders in the league.
Gotta agree about Thad, Pete. He is really stroking it, especially from beyond the arc. It’s really something how he has developed his outside shot so quickly. We have been told that Iguodala has worked on his jumper more and more each offseason, but we have yet to see progress approaching Thad’s. That tells me something about each of them.
About Iguodala. Watching him on offense, I see a guy looking for (instead of being in the flow of the offense) spots to do something (and finding very little). To his credit, I don’t see him forcing things too much. I wonder how long that will continue if he doesn’t get into some kind of comfortable role in the offense.
About Rush and Marshall. I realize that they were not in a tough, defensive game at crunch time, but it was still great to see them knocking down shots like that. That’s why we picked them up, right. Mo has got to find some minutes for them because they will not make any of those shots or any impact on the team from the bench.
Iguodala isnt scoring much, but he is still getting rebounds, assists and scoring when the opportunity presents itself. As long as he isn’t making a big deal about his decreased touches and ppg, I dont care how much he scores as long as they win. I do see the possibility of Thad becoming the 2nd option and Igg becoming more of a defensive minded player. I think it’ll be just fine, it’s still very early. When the Sixers get in true game shape,getting into the passing lanes, start running better and he gets out on the wing I think his numbers wil pop back up. Maybe not the same numbers as last year, but he will still be a huge part of their success. I just checked his line tonight, it wasn’t bad at all for a 24 min stretch.
I expect to see more of Rush and Marshall in the Orlando game on TNT and more frontcourt depth against Dwight Howard!!
Iguodala has been a slow starter his entire (short) career. He’s still getting people involved and he’s still facing constant double teams.
Just like the rest of the team, he’ll get used to “the Brand Factor” and settle into a role on the offensive end. I’m happy for Thad and Lou and to a lesser extent Willie Green. Those three are playing without thinking and I suppose Iguodala is over thinking a little bit (trying too justify his contract maybe).
He’ll get it together or Stefanski will find somebody who will.
Like I said last year on Deep Sixer, Thad young will is a future dream teamer. Iguodala is a nice player but he will never live up to that contract and here is the problem for us sixer fans. If Iggy tries to justify that contract by trying to be the man late in games then were in troubl. In order for us to succeed we need Iggy to be our 4th option behind Brand, Thad, and Lou. What we need out of iggy is 15-16 pts, 6 assists, 6 rebounds, and 2.5 steals. His on ball defense is very overated. I would rather have a real sg on this team. Later on I will compose a list of all sg’s that i would take over iggy along with some sammy dumbass hazes
Dre, well said. Most players sign a big deal and are asked to do more, he is being asked to do less, in a way. My biggest hope was he puts MORE effort down the defensive end and can become a lock down guy but I don!t see that yet and if he doesn!t excel at thaty aspect than it was a bad signing.
Speights, Lou Will, and Thad are going to be the nucleus of this team for a long time and it is going to be a very fun ride. My jaw drops watching Thaddeus Young play. Who would have ever thought that Thaddeus Young could turn out to be a better pro than Greg Oden. (Yes, I realize I’m jumping the gun a bit).
suede: I am happy to be proved wrong, but it just seems like Green and Lou are too similar in how they play the game to be on the court at the same time. I can see the offense consistently stagnating, and the only chance of success is if both are hitting their shots. Willie has played well so far, but over the course of a full season, he is unlikely to significantly improve his career numbers for FG % and 3 point %. Remember, he had a excellent 1 or 2 month stretch last year where he shot close to 50% from the field, but still finished at 43% for the year. I still say Willie can be effective if used smartly, and with a tight leash by Mo, but not if given a consistent 20 minutes every game.
The growth in Thad’s game is mighty impressive, if not unexpected. Lou, on the other hand, has disappointed so far. While his jumper certainly looks improved, his decision making does not. I have seen mostly unproductive and selfish play out of him. Of course, I am not going to draw too many conclusions from a 4 game sample. Like others have noted, AI2 has yet to find his place in the new lineup, but again, small sample size.
The games against the Knicks and Kings show that, once they figure everything out, this yeam will win a lot of games. Good teams destroy bad teams. Mediocre teams merely get through bad teams.
Suede and Morty If you watched game on Comcast, you may remember John Nash saying that Mo actually liked the way Williams and Green paired up, applying their scoring instincts and quickness, intensifying pressure on opponent defense.
Morty Though you obviously carry a bias against him (”Green still stinks”), Willie doesn’t require “a leash”, as you often assert, any more than any player on roster. So far, bashers
have been provided little fodder. If minutes were purely earned, and contracts/player status didn’t enter into minutes
granting, AI2, SD and LW would’ve had seated views of big portions of first 4; Mo has a banquet of options this year. Willie G, prominent scapegoat in recent years, useful vet, has played well; not surprising to me.
jjg: I did see the Comcast bit, just disagree. I like more balance, and think it is a bad idea for your 2 primary ball handlers at any one time to be ball hogs. Happy to be proven wrong, and I am far from a basketball expert (no kidding!)
As for Willie, the stats accumulated over 5 years in the league for a 27 year old player don’t lie. He is what he is: a streaky player who, over the long run of a season will shoot +/- 42% from the field and +/- 30% from 3 point range. Unless you think he will continue to shoot 64% from the field and 44% from 3? He’s having a nice run. and helping the team – kudos.
I agree that Willie is a useful vet, but for a streaky shooter who does not contribute unless he is shooting a high percentage, like Kenny Rogers says, you gotta know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em…
I any case, jjg, debating merits of Wilie Green is probably done to death. And then some. What is your take, acknowledging the small sample size, on the best way to integrate AI2 into the offense?
Anybody looking forward to the Florida Trip? Hopefully, Mo will go 10-11 deep (including Rush, Marshall, Speights). We are an unbelievable team on offense, let’s see if we can keep it up!!
WHAT A GREAT DAY FOR US?
-ELECTION DAY
-PHILLY SPORTS
What more could we ask for, other than a recovering economy and more championships?
Anyone else read about the comments from Rush? Fourth game of the season and he is already complaining about playing time. Not the way to build a relationship with your team and coach if you ask me. Hopefully this guy is not a trouble-maker because from the sound of it, he is a good role player for this team. But is that good enough for him?
“It’s very discouraging,” Rush said. “I didn’t plan on this when I signed here, but it’s the way it is. A lot of these guys have been here for a number of years and played with (coach Maurice) Cheeks a number of years, so I think it’s a familiarity thing that he has with these guys.”
Morty Theoretically, an 80 million dollar player isn’t integrated into anything, he’s built around. But specific to AI2, his strength of disrupting offensive patterns and igniting and getting out on break will naturally come into play. As for his place in halfcourt offense? Like any good player, he should know his limitations, run plays with precision (and improvise when it suits), take what the defense gives him, see teammates, distribute ball with timing, stroke shot (within range) from a strong base when it’s there, slow down, let game come to him, don’t mistake oneself as team’s premiere offensive threat, hit boards harder, lessen personal scoring expectations, establish pride in team result.
As for Green, I disagree with you that he doesn’t provide Sixers with productive play unless shooting a high percentage. A solid, composed player like Willie isn’t a one-trick pony.
TormentedinBeantown – I don’t mind Rush’s comments at all actually. All he did was tell the truth in a non-offensive or disruptive way and I am cool with that. I don’t view it as complaining because as a player at one time myself I can relate to sitting on the bench all game and not getting an opportunity to the help the team on the court. Especially when you have been working your butt off and potential could be better than a guy or two ahead of you getting minutes. He didn’t say anything disruptive or derogatory about anyone in the organization. In fact he said exactly what we have said here on the blog which is Mo playing the guys who have been here so far this season.
I could go into a huge rant about my very strong concerns about Mo’s coaching ability, but basically I just think he is taking the easy way out which is playing the same team he coached and is used to from last year with the unavoidable addition of Brand. Trying to integrate new players, allocate minutes with a deep rotation and clearly define roles is hard and I think he is shying away from that in the early going. Whether that is right or wrong is a matter of opinion at this point. He will really be put to the test when Green, or Lou or Iguodala really have as stretch when they play horrendously. Will he sit them and go with a new guy or not will be something to watch for.
The Willie Green debate will always be there. Right now he is hot and I am certainly all good with riding the hot hand. But when it cools I really need to see Kareem Rush playing more minutes.
I like Willie Green as a person. In every non-basketball related thing I’ve seen him he comes off as a really good dude. I also think he is a good vet in terms of personality on the team. He seems like a good teammate.
But from a production standpoint it’s very hard to argue with the numbers. Willie is a below average player in the NBA. I’ve done research myself on nearly every guard in the NBA and the sum Willie’s stats is near the bottom. That’s ok though because on the flip side the Sixers have quite a few good and productive players on the squad. So it’s just about riding Willie when he is hot and keeping him off the court when he isn’t.
The only thing that has bothered me about Willie this season is he has been gambling and going for steals more than usual or that I’ve noticed in the past and he is getting burned. Many of the open perimeter shots opponents have been getting are coming from him playing an A.I. style of defense and putting the other 4 guys in a severe help rotational defense that hasn’t ended well for the Sixers. I think he could be a much better defender if he simply focused on staying in front with less lunging for passes.
Does anyone else besides me see some parallels between Mo Cheeks and Charlie Manuel? To me, they would both be categorized as a “player’s coach”. They both seem to have a good relationship with their players and handle the personal, off the field/court concerns well. They both appear to be patient and to stick with their guys.
Manuel took a lot of guff, and rightly so, during his first few years here for his questionable in-game decision making. He has now progressed to the point where he has just out managed Sveum, Torre, and Maddon (as well as several others during the stretch run) on the way to winning the world series. He has developed a much better sense of situations and now routinely outmaneuvers the opposing manager to get the matchup he wants.
Cheeks continues to catch heat, again rightly so, for his in-game decision making. Can Cheeks possibly progress the same way Manuel has? Does anyone see him learning and improving in that aspect of his job? If not, does Stefanski step in and “suggest” some changes in the rotations and the doling out of minutes? Stefanski stepped in last year and told Mo to play the young guys and to play an up tempo game, so he could step in again, couldn’t he?
bski: There is certainly hope for Mo – his name is Doc Rivers. Rivers was a longtime punching bag in Boston, until last year. Was it ever announced whether Cheeks’ extension was for 1 additional year beyond the current one, or was it for 2 years? Let’s hope it was not 2 years.
Dannie: You put it quite well. Willie seems like a very nice guy, well meaning, etc. But if he is not shooting a high percentage, he is not doing enough of the other things (rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, getting to the line) that help the team win. When he is hot, for sure ride him, but just recognize when he is not. If I were coach, I would fluctuate Willie’s minutes between 10-25 minutes per night. Basically, he should 5 minutes each half to show whether he is hot, and then go from there.
Blski, have to disagree on Charlie; I believe by putting a veteren coaching staff around him to help with the strategy part of the game it allowed him to “handle” his players and improve our chances of winning. Same goes for D.Rivers with Theobidoux,did I spell it right ?, Giving Mo the right sidekick to lean on,[Lynum?] could allow him to repeat what Charlie just did. Dannie, last week I felt Brand was wasted when Willie and L.Will. came in and basicly ignored him on offense. But if Mo can get Sam and Elton a rest during the second quarter[5 to 8 minutes?] by playing Reggie, Marreese, [Thad/Iggy/Kareem], Willie and L.Will. with L.Will. and Willie dominating the ball then it may allow this team to get early leads and be ready to go after the half. I thought it was big to get Marreese in early but I want to see Mo have confidence in him against a quality team. Agree about Willie getting beat but last game it seemed he and L.Will. stepped up the pressure when they came in.
suede: Great point about the player’s coach needing the veteran adviser. Do we have that? Who choose the current staff, Mo or Stefanski?
Morty & Suede…I can see that about Manuel, up to a point, and Rivers. Maybe we can get Cheeks to make like Paterno. Cheeks can have a couple very good assistants run the offense, the defense, the Xs and Os, and the rotations, while he oversees things from an upper level box.
Blski, in Mo!s case they play hard for him but I would love to see an offensive inovator of some type that can put these pieces in their proper roles. As far as rotations, we will never be happy with all of them but if we are winning, it will be fine.Morty, I would lose respect for any coach that isn!t allowed to pick his own staff but a suggestion by E.S. of a guy that may be available would not be a bad thing. I don!t know if J.Lynum is that guy but I hope he is.
Suede…Sounds like a good idea to me. Since you specifically mentioned the offense, I’m guessing that you feel Cheeks is ok on the defensive side of the ball then?
Blski, they seem to play hard for him, I would hope that would be enough on that side of the ball. Just had a longgggg talk about Iggy with a good friend of mine who feels the same as most of us that quicker decisions by him would make this offense more efficient. If for some reason Iggy has to miss a week or so [injury,suspension?] and Rush was inserted, how would this offense look then ?
Willie Green: a stabilizer on a team with a few ‘nerve endings’. Won’t give you the “wow” factor. Will help you win. With a good attitude. Respectable man defense, pretty careful with ball, scoring punch. Eyes supercede Bill Jamesian stats. It’s a fresh year.
Dannie, they can be very frustrating. First play, Sammy 5 ft. from the ball waving his hands,gimme,gimme. Iggy giving Wade 2 straight offensive rebounds early. If I!m Mo I tell Sam, ala M. Bol, get as far away from the ball as possible,or you will sit,period. The high pick and roll is not working, keep Elton on the block and use Iggy, he has to do something, to backscreen for Elton. Sorry, very frustrated, expected Elton to eat up their frontline and see regression rather than progress.