Haven’t done one of these posts in a while, but I figured it would be good since I won’t be around this weekend to write a new post. So hopefully the multiple topics I toss out there via the links below will help keep the conversation going through the weekend.
Sixers sign Royal Ivey
The Daily News is reporting that the Sixers have reached an agreement with back-up point guard Royal Ivey. I have been a big fan of this guy from watching him play at Texas. He is a lock-down defender with good size for the point guard position. I believe the Sixers got a nice quality back-up to Andre Miller. Since I won’t be very active on the blog over the next few days, I want to address a comment from a loyal reader about the signing…
Don’t like the signing. Royal Ivey is Eric Snow 2.0, with more height. I think it’s ideal to sign a backup PG that actually gives you a different look then your starting PG. Andre Miller, despite his odd looking manner of doing anything on the court, is a fundamentally sound PG interested in involving teammates, running an offense, passing and playing D.
Royal Ivey fits the same mold. I’d rather have a PG coming off the bench that could hit some jumpers and three point shots, or gives an extra burst of speed for a bit…something. The signing certainly gives us a solid, dependable PG, which is nice…but having Royal Ivey in the game isn’t so much improving our team on the court but holding par until Andre M is back in. - Dave T
I think the expectations are a bit high coming from this comment. We are talking about a career back-up being paid the veteran’s minimum. He brings a different skill set than you may have wanted, but that doesn’t make it a bad signing. In fact I think Dave paid the best possible comment to Ivey by saying “having Royal Ivey in the game isn’t so much improving our team on the court but holding par until Andre M is back in.” Isn’t that exactly what you want your reserve to do? That’s why he is a reserve. If he doesn’t screw up you are even, if he maintains the level of a starter you come out WAY ahead in my opinion. If he provided more than what your starter does then you wouldn’t have him riding the pine, and you certainly wouldn’t have gotten him for the veteran’s minimum. I agree Ivey is not a good shooter or has ever been. But I don’t think we need him to do that. He can lead the break well, does not turn the ball over and can defend the better guard when he is paired in the backcourt with Louis Williams.
It is clear the Sixers are still fully focused on the defensive end, and I love it. They went out and got a guy with a strong basketball IQ, strong defensive ability and physique. We finally have a GM who is building a winner the right way, and I look forward to seeing the rest of the players he chooses to fill out the roster. Stefanski said he will get a shooter, and I believe him. Ed Stefanski is gaining more of my trust everyday. Does he have yours yet?
If you’re looking for more information about Royal Ivey check out this write-up courtesy of regular Recliner GM reader, Zack aka Sixerzguy (thanks). Here are Ivey’s NBA and college career stats if you’re interested.
Andre Miller is talking a bit this summer…
“I think it’s great that Elton Brand chose to sign with us,” Miller said. “The way we came together at the end of last year was the first step, and adding one of the best power forwards in the league shows that we aren’t satisfied with just making the playoffs.”
“I really think we can do great things this year and I’m excited to be a part of it.” - NBA.com
Does that sound like the comments of a disgruntled point guard? A player that isn’t happy with his current playing situation? All I heard this past season and going into the off-season was that Andre Miller wasn’t happy in Philadelphia. Yet, not once did that feeling show up in his play, his public quotes or his on or off-court demeanor. Many people seem to mistake his “keep to myself” attitude for being unhappy as a Sixer, almost completely giving up the idea that he would resign with the Sixers next summer, which has a lot of people pushing for a trade deadline deal involving Miller. Please show me some proof that he is unhappy, and that it’s not just misguided assumptions and speculation.
I agree he may move on next summer but not for that reason. Not because he doesn’t want to be a Sixer. Rather because at the end of his career he just wants to go back home. If presented with the opportunity to play for a winner closer to home at a fair price who wouldn’t make that move? Elton Brand sure did - and we are all thankful for that in Philadelphia, aren’t we?
Possible contract extension coming for Mo Cheeks
Question to Maurice Cheeks: Have you had a conversation with Sixers president/general manager Eddie Stefanski about an extension beyond the 1 year that was added to your contract during last season?
Cheeks: “We’re working on it.”
Q: So, you’ve had the conversation?
Cheeks: “We’re working on it.”
Q: Are you close?
Cheeks: “We’re working on it.” - philly.com
What are your overall feelings on Mo Cheeks? If this extension comes before the season, how would you feel? Was the work he put in last season with a .500 club sufficient to warrant a longer contract?
I hear a lot about his weakness in strategic game planning and in-game adjustments. I don’t disagree and in fact have written about it myself. He definitely could be better. But is that really the most important trait of the head coach? I think that’s a large part of what assistant coaches are for. What I really look for in a head coach is how he handles and motivates players. Does his team respond favorably to him? I think Cheeks shines in both those aspects. Now it’s time for him to improve his game as well, or be humble enough to recognize his weakness and defer to an assistant when appropriate.
Iverson for Brand for Camby, huh?
That is the creative viewpoint Clips Nation is taking on the blockbuster developments that happened this summer. In essence the Nuggets, Clippers and Sixers were a part of a rare three-team trade involving top tier players that took 19 months to be completed. At the end of the day the question will be who made out as the winner in the deal?
6 reasons the Philadelphia 76ers will have a shot at the East next year
The Hoop Doctors take a look at the Sixers’ chances for a big season next year. They provide 6 legit reasons. But, this comes from (to my knowledge) a non-diehard Sixers fan. So I throw it out to you guys. Can you come up with better or additional reasons our 76ers will run through the Eastern Conference next season?
Have a great weekend.
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{ 61 comments… read them below or add one }
Dannie: following up about Ivey from the last thread: I think, but not certain, the defensive ratings are an attempt to isolate players. Each team has an overall rating, and then the individual players have their own ratings. I looked at all 4 years of Ivey’s career and he was below the team average all but one year.
Like I’ve said, I have never paid attention to him on the court, so I am sure I am missing something, and if he is merely an upgrade over Kevin Ollie, that is OK with me. Frankly, I have not been expecting an impact shooter to be on our team this year anyway, unless ES can pull off a Smith/ Green swap.
As for Mo, I can see where you are going with your remarks, sort of how we now view Manuel with the Phils. I am not opposed to that line of thinking, however, I am opposed to another 3 year deal with Mo before he has proved himself over the course of an entire year with a team like he now has with Brand. If the team is healthy, but does not win 50 games this year, would we be happy with the job Mo has done?
Morty - You are right about the defensive rating (I have Basketball on Paper
actually - fantastic read for die hard basketball heads) the key word is “attempt.” I think most of these advanced statistics are great for enhanced analysis but still have their flaws and just forces people to do what they should be doing anyway which is watching the games.
I also agree Mo still needs to prove he can win when the expectations are higher and the talent is greater. With that said I come from the school of thought that players still are the most important factor in winning games (Celtics get better players they win, when Boston fans were calling for Rivers to be fired because his players were inadequate). What the team did last year speaks to Mo getting the most out of what he had to work with.
Having him coach on a year to year basis doesn’t seem like a good idea to me, which is why I think he got that early extension last season. If he isn’t extended this summer I look for Stefanski to again get something done during the season but for a longer term deal if things go as we hope.
I just don’t like having a coach go into the playoffs uncertain of his job.
Great topic for the weekend Dannie, I see another 100+ posts coming.
I couldn’t come up with another reason for success off of the top of my head. I really like the six that the hoops doctor came up with.
Reading the comments about the post mentioned a name that wasn’t (if it was I must have missed it) said before, Bonzi Wells, he would be a good addition.
@Morty:
I agree with Dannie…statistics in general for defense are very misleading. Steals have nothing to do with defensive ability, nor does rebounding…and I have yet to see any defensive statistic that is actually capable of measuring a player’s defensive ability. This isn’t necessarily an “anti-stat” rant…I just really think there isn’t a quantifiable way to show good vs. bad defense.
I think when it comes down to it you just have to watch guys play in a game. Truly great defense…the Pippens, KG’s, Artest’s of the league…their magic comes from such nuanced things like footwork, cutting off angles, subtly forcing a player a certain direction, etc that numbers can’t really produce. IMO, probably 90% of defense isn’t so much about stopping guy X from scoring, but “changing what the individual player’s plan was”. Cutting off a players vision, or if you see him thinking one potential option is open, you cut off that option and force him to make a quick decision…etc. It’s just so improvisational and subtle that numbers can’t do it justice.
Perfect example of this is when players play excellent defense but the offensive player scores anyway. You could have a guy that takes away penetration dribble, doesn’t bite for any fakes, takes away passing lanes, and gives the offensive player only one option: shoot a wild turnaround crazy jumpshot…that goes in. By any statistical measurement, that’s a failed play…but in watching, it’s Grade A+ defense.
(didn’t mean to come after you there Morty…but I was always that basketball player that thrived off great D and hustle plays, so the subject of what comprises great defense is always near and dear to me haha. I spent the ten years AI was here lambasting people when they’d say he’s a good defender because of his steal count).
@Royal Ivey: I didn’t see much of him at Texas, but I saw him fill in a lot for the Hawks…and I will readily say that, even though I still don’t love the signing, Royal Ivey is an excellent defender. He flat out gets it, and adds another level of toughness to what is rapidly becoming a hard nosed, take no BS team on the defensive end. I honestly think we have potential to be the best…as in #1…defensive team in the NBA next year.
Ivey was regularly used as a late game foul specialist I believe throughout his career since he is a smart player and an expendable body. That may explain his lower defensive rating. I figured I would throw that out there since fouls committed are likely included in the calculation.
I LOVE the signing for the minimum. He is a smart player who gets after it defensively. He has a bit of that “dirty” player in him as well. As the youtube video of him punching Aaron Gray in his “man region” as Reggie Miller calls it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=natJK96nU_g
And this may remind you of a current Sixer… http://youtube.com/watch?v=QFcinlrgojk
Joe - I was waiting for someone to bring that incident up. I am cool with one or two tough slightly dirty role players on the squad.
Ivey’s a solid signing. We still need a shooter, but it never hurts to have a smart, defensive player especially for the league minimum. Not to mention he’s only 26 years old.
I’m trying not to over-anaylze this signing, but there’s not much else going on. It’s not like Ed broke the bank for Royal or signed him to a long-term deal. I’m just estimating, but if BK was still here. 4 years 10 million? Probably.
As for Mo Cheeks. I love the guy. I think he’s been very underrated throughout his career.
Dannie, “Slightly dirty?” That’s like calling this blog “almost accessible.” Hadn’t known of the Gray incident. Viewing it made me think of Ron Behagen (Minnesota) kicking Luke Witte (Ohio State) while on floor back in 70s. Also brought to mind Conrad Dobler. Royal Ivey didn’t learn that twist in dancing school.
@Jordan
TO be fair, all the Sixers had was the minimum, so Billie couldn’t give him more. Ed did give him a 2nd year. That could be criticized. I wouldn’t, but it could be.
@Dannie
You gotta have guys who are willing to kick at a taped up ankle, slap at an injured pinky, and occasionally toe the line. Thats part of being a competitor. You need to play “no lay up” basketball to get things done in the playoffs. That is why I hate Rudy Gay and love James Posey.
jjg - I say slightly dirty because one incident doesn’t translate into a full blown reputation of dirty behavior.
@Joe
Your right. In hindsight, my comment was hypothetically speaking. I’m sold on Ed being an absoulete stud.
And I completely agree with your assesment of what wins playoff games. Let’s not forget the other “Special Place Puncher/Grabber” we have on our team basically won us a playoff game. Ivey just seems like a scrappy, San Antonio Spur-like player. I’ll take it.
Good call Jordan haha. I’m sure Reggie Evans will teach Ivey all the dirty tricks for how to properly grab a nutsack so that no ref ever sees it.
@Joe:
Couldn’t disagree more man. Kicking at a taped ankle or injury? Not cool, and I hate any kind of dirty play. There’s a huge difference between players that won’t take sh*t from people, can be intimidating, and very physical…versus players (Bruce Bowen) that take cheap shots and actually break minor rules because refs can’t see them.
I’m all about the former. I like guys that foul…and foul HARD. I like a guy that will mix it up in the paint, and send a guy to the floor by not letting them score a layup. I LOVE physical players that put it all on the line and have no fear, and intimidate the other team…every team needs that.
But dirty players that hold jerseys, grab arms, take cheap shots, kick, punch the stomach, etc…just unnecessary. That kind of stuff insults me…I see that like rooting for an injury to the other team’s best player, just to win the game. I want my team to win the right way, by the book, outplaying the other team…not out-dirtying them.
That’s why I don’t like Evans. Doesn’t play the game right. Lacks sportsmanship. I guess that’s a part of “hustle” in 2008. He should work as much to shoot foul shots at 60%.
JJG:
You’d think Evans would have learned how to shoot free throws from his “skill-set twin,” Danny Fortson, while in Seattle.
Dannie:
Nice post, man. I’m very much in agreement with locking Mo up. I wouldn’t be comfortable working on a year-to-year contract, much less working like that in the revolving door that is NBA coaching.
Dave T: Agreed that defensive stats, especially a defensive rating of isolating one player’s points per 100 possessions is difficult; I do not know how the rating is computed. However, I do trust advanced stats after seeing how well they work for baseball. And we are not talking about a single game, or even season. In 3 of his 4 seasons, Ivey has been rated as below his team’s defensive average, and was only at the average in the 4th. To me, that signals a trend.
Continuing: according to Basketball Reference, the best defenders, of our rotation, were Sammy, Igoudala and Evans. The worst were Green, Miller and Williams. I think our eyes would agree with those statistical assessments.
Dave, agree with 99% of what you said about defense except that rebounding wasn!t part of it. If you play great defense for 24 seconds and don!t get the rebound its all for naught because you have to do it again.
Morty: I’d be open to seeing and embracing a defensive statistic system that could accurately measure defensive ability in basketball. But I don’t think such a thing exists…too much of what goes into defense is intangible and not quantifiable.
Even if these stats are “advanced”, or comparing an individual player to his team, I can’t even possibly comprehend how you analyze something numerically that involves subtle things that happen on every play at every time down the court. It would be like trying to quantify “basketball IQ”, which is far more then just versatile points, assists and rebounding numbers. I’d be very curious though to see the rubric that your site used to come up with the defensive statistics for the team/individual.
All I know is that in having seen Ivey play his backup minutes for the Hawks, he’s shown himself to be an extremely capable defender, hustles his butt off, and is a solid point guard that can run a set in the ilk of Eric Snow.
Dave T: You’ve observed Ivey and I have not, so I’ll defer to you until shown otherwise.
That said, the individual defensive statistical ratings for the Sixers confirm exactly to what our eyes tell us as well, so the ratings must have something down right.
@Dave T.
If a player is playing injured, I want that exploited and tested. That is what I was saying. In basketball, you could “accidentally” make contact with some injured ribs. You could “accidentally” slap at his broken finger. You could accidentally pick a guy who has a hurt back. That is what I was getting at.
I suppose “kicking a taped ankle” was poor wording. I don’t advocate outright “cheap shots.” I do advocate Robert Horry aiming his screen at David West’s bad back.
Holding jerseys and arms is fine with me as well. It is the refs job to watch for those things and they don’t increase the chance for injury at all really, so it is just competing in my opinion.
Ivey lost his cool for one play. I don’t buy into it too much. Youtube NBA and punch and I am sure you will find plenty of guys who occasionally lose their cool. Some are “class acts” as well. It just shows that a guy is emotionally invested in the game and occasionally a line or 2 is crossed. It happens. I want my guy to play as hard as he can though and sometimes that line is toed. James Posey isn’t a saint by any means, neither was Robert Horry, but I would take their play style and competitiveness any day.
DAVE T: I’m with you. I don’t like dirty players at all. If that kind of stuff is allowed, basketball then degenerates into hockey.
I know we don’t talk about hockey here, but give me a little latitude. I think that is one of the major problems with hockey. Guys with 1/4 of the ability of a Sidney Crosby, Mario Lemieux, etc… are allowed to grab, clutch, hold, pin against the boards, etc…All of that negates the gap in skills between the two guys. That brings the superstar talents down closer to the level of a half-goon. They are not able to show the full range of their abilities. I think it really diminishes the game.
Ok. Now for the segue back to basketball. I believe it was in the spring of 1994 during the playoffs that Sports Illustrated had a split cover (1/2 hockey and 1/2 basketball) with a title like “Who’s Hot/Who’s Not”. Back then hockey was on the rise. Scoring was up, the games were faster paced, and fans really took to it. At that time in the NBA, defenses were allowed to take over and there were many games in the high 70s-low 80s. Pat Riley’s Knickerbocker Goon Squad would regularly win games with scores like 82-74. There were way too many slow, plodding, foul festivals with no rhythm or flow and fans were tuning out.
Since then, each league has gone in opposite directions. I would hate to see the NBA revert back because dirty play is allowed or goes undetected. Guys need to have more respect for the game and for each other.
JOE: See my post above. Again, the Sixers are playing in the NBA, not the NHL.
@Bski:
And here I was thinking hockey sucked just because it was a far inferior sport in every conceivable way possible haha.
Bski I actually hugely disagree with you about the 90s style of play. I think today’s NBA is pretty horrible. Why? The handchecking rule. The NBA is such a league of wussies its not even funny. I cannot stand these ticky tac fouls that are called on a regular basis…Dwyane Wade shooting those 25 FT’s against Dallas two years back was one of the most pathetic things in basketball I have ever seen.
If you get a chance to ever go back and watch mid 90’s basketball games on ESPN classic…I personally find the pace is MUCH better on the eye. The game had a better flow, the whistle wasn’t called as much, less tv timeouts. I think the biggest mistake people make in arguing that the rule changes helped the game is to say, “Look, scoring is up! See, teams score 100+ again!”
BS, as far as I’m concerned. The extra scoring is coming from made FT’s and more FT attempts…and I don’t know about you guys, but having the game constantly stop to become a free throw fest is like watching paint dry on a wall. Obviously those Knicks/Heat slugfests were boring to watch, but I think that was more extreme. They need to bring hand-checking back and stop calling touch fouls in the interior. If you look at the top 15 in scoring back 10 years ago…it was VERY good if you scored 22 ppg+. 24+ was a rarity. Now the top 10-12 are all in that 22-24 range. Not good for the game.
@bski
Before I say anything, I would have to say that the players don’t control league rules and how they are enforced. I think we are arguing different things. I am discussing how I want my favorite team’s players to play within the current NBA rules, not how I want the league to enforce rules.
How the league enforces rules is a whole nother argument, where we would likely disagree in some areas and agree in others.
I want my players to compete within the league rules for the most part, but I would also like for them to face guard off the ball occasionally. I would like them to grab a guy’s jersey if they are beat a little bit. If the foul is called, take it out on the sideline. I want my guys to take a foul when facing a 3 on 1 if they can. I want my guys to break the rules on purpose when it is advantageous but not dangerous.
If someone wants to play injured though, I think that is different. Some people might not agree.
@Dave T.
The Wade FTs were a travesty. That wasn’t league rules though. There was more going on there IMO.
@Dave T.
FTAs(team average)
92: 2188
93: 2273
94: 2184
95: 2220
96: 2164
97: 2078
98: 2155
…………
06: 2157
07: 2138
08: 2045
I can’t attest to games in the mid-90s since I have only been more than a casual basketball fan for about 5 years, but the statistics don’t support your claim.
The game lengths and TV timeouts are out of control though. I agree with that.
Dannie - enjoy your weekend, check up on us if you get a chance (unless you’re going to be in a hotel room with Big Ed and the agents for Iggy and Lou trying to hammer out the contracts).
I love all the basketball passion from you guys. I’ve never read about defensive rating systems (I tend to trust my eyes).
Nobody followed up on the Bonzi Wells idea, 6′5″ G/F, not the pure shooter we really need but has hit big shots for New Orleans & Houston.
Dave T, I’m with you about certain aspects of the game being NOT fun to watch. I don’t think the purpose of any possession is to score by trying to get to the line. I watched all the summer league games, and watching the Sixers’ guards drive right into 2~3 defenders every 3rd possession was really… (checking thesaurus) …can’t quite find the wording, but it felt like they were desecrating basketball in some way. But you’re right, it’s not just in summer league, it happens quite often during the regular season and playoffs, too.
The reason the Bulls were able to win all those championships was because they were the smartest and most skilled team of their era, and that was the only way you could overcome all the physical play of the 90s. Brains over brawn. I think you could make that statement about the champions of the 80s, too. But now, you don’t need to be as smart and as skilled. Now, the NBA has made it so that the most important skill you should have is the ability to bull your way down the lane and draw fouls.
Maybe the NBA thinks that the game needed to be made simpler for the casual fan, that great passing and off-the-ball movement and spacing was boring TV, but drive after drive to the rim would draw in more viewers. I think the NBA wanted to encourage more teams to be more like the Jason Williams Kings and the Steve Nash suns, but they just weren’t smart or skilled enough to pull it off.
JOE: I’m sure we agree more than we disagree. I would agree with you about everything in #24 up to the injury part. If you know a guy has a balky ankle and is having difficulty moving laterally or has a bum knee and doesn’t have a lot of lift off the floor, you should definitely take advantage of that. Where I draw the line is deliberately stepping on or kicking a guy’s bad ankle or banging into his bum knee. Contact is going to happen. It’s part of the game and any guy with an injury understands that he is risking further injury by stepping on the floor. That being said, there is no justification for deliberately trying to injure a guy further or trying to get him out of the game.
dre, I looked into it as soon as you mentioned him, but we’ve got no room for anyone except 7~10 minute role players. I like that Bonzi was pretty good under Mo in Portland, so maybe because of that he’d give him a lot of Willie Green’s playing time, but that’s a really big “maybe” for me. And he’s not that shooter, like you said, so he’s not taking the shooter’s minutes. Where do you think he’d fit?
ZACK: I haven’t seen you on any of the baseball posts. You got me back and now you’re not there. What gives?
@Joe:
Glad you found the stats to show FT’s per year, and interesting that it doesn’t match what I “felt” seemed like more free throws being called now. Given that…then I guess on my end the explanation would be that the fouls called in the early to mid 90’s seemed more in the flow of the game. Maybe I’m thinking this way because more off the ball fouls are called, or ticky tac fouls are called now…but the overall # of fouls is still roughly the same.
One thing I find interesting when I catch 90’s games on ESPN classic…there are numerous times when I watch a guard barreling into the lane, or a big guy in traffic in the paint…where I feel my body tense up and my head is thinking “Damnit, he just got fouled,”…and then there is no call. That, to me, says that there are certain plays and situations that I’ve gotten accustomed to being called as fouls in 00’s, but in the 90’s simply were not treated as fouls and they let the players play on. That’s what I miss. I miss more harder fouls being able to NOT get called…whereas now if a guy is touched, I know the whistle will blow. Thanks again for the stats Joe!
@Dre:
I’ve been a huge Bonzi Wells fan since his Portland days, and feel the guy has gotten a far worse personality rap then is actually do. He’s a creative scorer, extremely clutch player, doesn’t take BS, has a nice midrange shot, real good post game for a guy his size, and has always been a very good defender.
I’m still kind of shocked the Hornets didn’t play him as much in the playoffs last year…especially given how he has proven to HUGELY rise to the occasion, when given minutes, in the playoffs with the early 00’s Portland team (one year, maybe 01? I remember him playing phenomenally), and more recently just two years ago when he was a one man offensive juggernaut for the Kings, and played out of his freaking mind against San Antonio. He’s a total steal to sign at the vet minimum if healthy and used properly…IMO, far better then James Posey (although Posey is obviously a better teammate).
But for us to sign him? Kinda the same I feel about Jamont Gordon. Great talent, not the greatest fit for our team right now because Bonzi has always been a pretty crappy 3 point shooter. He might hit some money shots every now and then from behind the arc, but he’s a career low 30’s guy with %, mid 30’s on a good year. Now, if we made W Green disappear, signed Bonzi to be a versatile scoring/defensive swingman…AND signed another vet swingman for purely shooting purposes…that would be incredible.
ZACK: You’re right about guys just bulling their way down the lane. It’s the lamentation about the lack of a mid-range game with today’s players. If it’s not a spot up 3 pointer, then it’s going all the way to the rim, which is where all the free throws come in. We don’t see much in between.
Zack, we got the closest thing to K.Weaver in Ivey, you were right after all. Guys, in what other city could the acquisition of R.Ivey at the end of July create such a buzzsaw of conversation, props to all. Dre, if Dannie is in that room with E.S. iGGY WILL BE A sIXER!!
@bski
I don’t know. I have kind of always thought that an injured player is well… injured and that if he wants to play like that, then the opposing team makes it hard for him.(assuming he is good) You put a little extra into everything when that injury is in play. You initiate contact with the place of injury as often as you possibly can within the flow of the game. That is the approach I have always believed in.
Robert Horry knew David West had back problems. He is a crafty guy. He lined up that screen and gave it an extra little bit to get that exposed back nice and good. It was “cheap” to some. It was just smart to me. He was playing injured. Horry did what you gotta do.
Apparently Royal Ivey can shoot a little bit…
nba.com/hotspots
From midrange…
04-05 — 40.0%(20/50)
05-06 — 41.0%(48/117)
06-07 — 50%(29/58)
07-08 — 48.4%(44/91)
Those last 2 seasons seem to show some solid improvement. Those are really good %’s for a midrange shot. I don’t take them as too much, but it certainly isn’t bad.
I know Stefanski is trying to find that shooter the team needs, I’m just not sure that guy exists via FA.
That’s why I think the Royal Ivey signing was more than just a roster filling move. To me it feels like step one in a bigger plan that may involve Willie Green and one of our PF’s (Jason Smith), in a trade senerio to get a veteran shooter.
Ed has made very good and calculated moves so far but the wait is killing me.
Dre, I would hope your right but this move was probably more important than the shooter he acquires because it allows L.Will., a player he seems to really like to be on the floor longer, thus improving our offense. I think the main competition for minutes this year is between Thad and L.Will.. If L.Will. can hit from deep and become a B.Gordon type than Iggy may split time at the 2 and 3. Options,options,options!!!
@Joe:
No offense meant man, but your point of view sounds pretty draconian with this whole injury thing. Yes, it’s true that often in sports coaches teach players, sadly at young ages, that it is a “smart” thing to go out of their way to initiate contact with the specific spot of an injured player. To me, that’s one of the most warped ways of playing sports that could possibly exist.
Joe, it basically sounds like you are saying, “Winning is more important then the health of another person’s body.” If you think it is right to actively go for a cheap shot and dirty play…I mean, advocating it?…I just can’t agree. It’s not part of the game. The reason we have sports is to give us a platform where our competitive juices can come out in a non-violent way. If you’re literally fighting and defending yourself, then yes, you go for the weak knee, or rib, or whatever.
But in a sports game? If my defender has a bad knee and they keep him in the game…I’ll take advantage of that using basketball…give some kind of hesitation fake or move where I know he physically can’t compensate and score. But to actually go in and HIT him in his area of injury is showing a total lack of regard for the sport.
Sports are about two people/teams playing to the peak of their abilities, and going up against another player/team to test their own inner strength, drive and determination. Hurting and injuring another does not fit into that equation, and does not reflect any semblence of the work ethic and practice a team has put in to get where they are.
I agree somewhat suede, by that I mean this is the year Mo can build on what he started instead of starting over. Minutes will go to the guy that hot or that’s playing best at a given position. If Iggy and Thad are in agroov then they’ll stay on the floor (for example).
@Dre
If you know a team willing to take Willie Green, whether we’re getting a shooter back or not, please give Stefanski a call and let him know!
@Dave T.
Situation 1: A player has a bad back of something. No mobility concerns really. Just can’t hold his position really. You push this guy around and crash the boards constantly.
Situation 2: A player has a bum knee affecting him mobility. You take him off the dribble.
I assume you advocate both of these.
Situation 3: A player has a taped up finger. In a legit game, not some pick up game. I would purposefully make consistent contact with that finger throughout the game.
This is where we differ. I don’t think this is disrespectful to the sport whatsoever. You think it is. I think it is competition in a nutshell. I think Barkley has mentioned this numerous times while commenting. You “test it” when a guy comes out with tape on. If he flinches when you tough his shoulder, you go after the shoulder constantly.
In a pick up game? I would do 1 and 2. Probably not 3. Luckily people don’t do 3 because I have been playing with tape on my broken finger for 2 months now lol.
I’m in Atlanta I’ll give them a call. haha They could use him, although I don’t see anyone on their roster I would want back. Horford & Joe Johnson is the whole team now.
Joe - fair play is fair play and right is right. You should never go out with the intention to hurt someone, even if he’s already hurt.
If you hit a guy on his hurt wrist trying to steal the ball, fine, but you should not purposely attempt to hit it.
My girls are just learning the game and I taught them that the number one lesson was good sportsmanship.
Joe…the only time a person should ever use the words: “…go after the _____ constantly” when referring to an injury…is in war, or a fight to defend yourself. If you are using these words at any other time, you are disrespecting someone else unnecessarily. And yes, Charles Barkley and any other athlete that advocates this is disrespecting sports, and people, with this attitude. You are basically saying, “It is ok to go out of your way to hurt someone to win a game involving throwing a rubber ball inside of a metal circle.”
And Joe, why the difference in pickup games and professional sports? Why would you hold the standard any differently? Competition is competition, whether you are playing for fun, money, glory, alone or in front of others. If you would never go after a friend of yours on the court that had injured himself in a pickup game…why is it ok to in the NBA or college? Wouldn’t any one of your peers you played with think you are a total asshole if they had a bum knee and you kicked it?
Dre, I wonder who the Hawks have to score off their bench, I see Claxton is back, maybe Law plays some 2.
Law was injured most of the season so we didn’t get alot of playing time. I can’t see him playing SG though.
They gambled with Childress and lost and Smith may be next. He’s hinting at signing the one year tender if a sign and trade isn’t worked out.
oh yeah, suede - thanks for the props, but I was actually leaning towards your suggestion of getting more of a shooter for that guard to go alongside LouWill. One thing that really surprised me this season was how much we got away defensively with Willie at the SG position. Offensively, he hurt us more often than not, but why didn’t opposing shooting guards burn us more often? Let me ask you something: QUICK! - name the top 10 shooting guards in the league…
There are only a few true superstars out there, right? For the NBA’s most glamorous position, there aren’t that many dominant players, very few who could abuse ol’ Willie possession after possession.
My point is, I think we definitely could’ve gotten away with a Chalmers-LouWill backcourt.
(This is a bit incomplete, but I gotta go…)
@Dave T.
We are way off topic. This isn’t right. If you want to continue I will give you my email…
I think Ivey will fit in nicely with the image this team is putting out. No defensive letdown when he is in the game, I like that. Plus it will add a little size out there when Lou/Willie are in the game as the second unit. There wont be much expected of him as far as production goes, there is enough offensive potential on this team.
I am not so worried about the shooter right now. They can roll with what they have for now. And wait and see out guys like Lou and Igoudala have improved their shooting. You can always find a shooter at the deadline, ala Kyle Korver.
@Suede:
Looks like the Hawks just answered your question of whose going to score off the bench for the swingman position. They just signed Maurice Evans to a 3 year, $7.5 million deal.
Hoopshype is also reporting a “Western Conference power” and “Eastern Conference big player” have sign-trade offers on the table for Atlanta’s Josh Smith. Out of the East “big dogs” I think Detroit would be the one…if lesser teams got involved, I could see the Bulls making a run at him by offering some combo of resigning one of the Deng/Gordon pieces, and coupling that with either Ty Thomas or J Noah…or maybe Hinrich. Could get interesting.
@Zack:
Seems like a lot of us are in agreement about the Mario Chalmers idea. Such a shame we didn’t have a late 1st round or early 2nd round pick.
@About the Sixers chances next year:
I’m curious where people see the top 8-10 teams in the East landscape next year. (Dannie, it would be great if we could get a post to debate this in August sometime). Personally I see the 3-6 spots in the East as very interchangeable like last year…except with all having drastically improved. There is going to be a war between us, the Magic, Raptors and Wizards (note I don’t include the Cavs).
I’m not saying the Raps or Wiz will both be incredible, but I think people are sleeping on the chances of one of the two having a total breakout season. If (and it’s a 12 out of 10 on the “big if” scale) J Oneal is healthy and resembles, or comes 75% close to, his 2001-05 form, that Raptors nucleus of Bosh/Oneal inside, and Calderon getting a full 35+ mpg as the new starting point, with one of the best all around glue guys in Anthony Parker, is a very nice combination. And the Wizards big three healthy, with an improved Blatche, and Arenas looking to mature this season…petrifies me when things click on all cylinders with them.
Dave, 2 teams I thought of first were Detroit [Prince/Maxiel] and Dallas [J.Howard and Bass]. Don!t think Smith is locked in at the 4 spot, could be looked at as a 3 on a lot of teams.
Suede,
I’m with you, Detroit is def. the team that makes sense in the East. I think you nailed the players too…the only thing I could see different is maybe Atlanta going for Amir Johnson, or possibly Walter Hermann as a thrown in for a third player, but I’m sure they’d get the more sure-thing big in Maxiel. Also agree about his position…I see him as a natural 3, and a guy that can slide down to play the 4 spot, but not an ideal PF. Although with him and other versatile players, position doesn’t really matter so much.
I wasn’t thinking Dallas for the West team, but that makes a lot of sense. Atlanta would probably try to get either Stackhouse or Eddie Jones thrown in as well for extra depth at the 2/3 spot.
Cuban has been too quiet this summer, he probably feels he has to do something. Tough to figure the western team though.
@Dave T.
Curious… why not the Cavs? How many years straight do they have to beat the Wizards?
anyone heard details on RealGM about Eskins “reporting” that Sixers signed Rush?
Yeah. He said they are “close to signing him.” Done deal essentially.
Good signing. He isn’t a good player really, but he can shoot and he was gotten for the minimum so I am not complaining.
Ivey was a good addition. Rush would be as well. Steve Novak would be as well if that happens.
Thought after Ivey signing our shooter would be a 3 more than a 2, Rush can!t play much 3, can!t cover them, another sign if done that Iggy is gonna play a lot of 3 this year; wonder if they are gonna bring Thad off the bench again with 4 two guards if this signing takes place.
The Ivey signing told me Willie and L.Will. get plenty of two guard minutes [25 to 30 combined?]. Wish a Novak type was the next move but E.S. must like Rush as an athlete also.
I’m back - got a short post coming this morning and will address some of the new developments that have been going on this weekend.
@Suede:
I’m really hoping they start Thad. Sometimes too much importance is placed on the whole starting lineup, when in fact much of the game is played with a lineup that isn’t that one…but I really want the message sent that: Thad = starter = he’s our guy for years to come.
About K Rush…really like the signing. And I actually think it won’t be a problem position wise, he’s played plenty of NBA SF before, and at 6′6 can get away with being our backup three. I don’t think any of us can argue a move where we get a guy that has hit 100 three’s in only 20 mpg at a 38% clip from long range.