September 20, 2014

Draft Prospect Measurements Released: Where Sixers Targets Stand

DraftExpress has released the official measurements from the Chicago combine. Just height/weight/wingspan, etc… no vertical, shuttle etc. While these seem trivial, it’s always interesting to put an exact number on these things when the college numbers can often be fudged. Also, wingspan is not a commonly reported item, but in many cases is more important than height. Here are how the prospects that are relavant to the Sixers measured out. I’ve included their best comparison (draftexpress keeps a database of these things) so you can visualize what these guys would look like in the NBA.

A couple notes on each guy…

  1. John Wall (who I put on here just in case something crazy happens) has an insane wingspan for someone his height. Not as insane as Arenas though, who is a 1/2 inch shorter, but has a 1/4 inch longer wingspan. Other than that, they are the same dimensions.
  2. Evan Turner is 6’7” in shoes, and his arms are kind of short for his height (6’8” wingspan, average draft prospect is 6’10” at that height). This isn’t anything we didn’t know already.
  3. Derrick Favors has almost exactly the same dimensions as Emeka Okafor (and very close to Dwight Howard). Exact same height, wingspan,  and only 1/2 inch shorter on standing reach (9’2”) and only 10 lbs lighter (Favors is 245). This tells me that Favors can play center in this league easily. It also tells me that when he puts up potentially ridiculous numbers in the vertical leap, etc…, the Favors/Turner argument might get a little more pronounced.
  4. DeMarcus Cousins is fat. He apparentely looked much skinnier than a couple months ago, but was still almost 300 lbs. I couldn’t find an exact comp. because of his weight, but other than that, he was the same as ‘Zo. His wingspan is massive too. Just a massive human being all around.
  5. Wes Johnson was also hard to find a comp. for because of how skinny he is. He’s taller and longer than I thought. A skinnier ‘Melo.

This has me thinking about Favors in a different light. I had assumed he was more of a PF because that is what I had read, but he really could be a legit center. Anything you guys take from this?

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Comments

  1. deepsixersuede says:

    Dannie, that is why I want him; I discussed this with D.Bodner the other night and he thought eventually he could play both, can we pass on an oppurtunity to put him and Jrue together early to develop some chemistry?  Did you watch the combine?  P.George is a very interesting player who outplayed Henry and Anderson at a workout recently. He is supposedly able to play the s.g. spot at 6!8″ and at one point buried 4 straight from the top of the key.

    The reason I mention him is the Minn. rumor making the rounds. #2 for #4, #16 and #23 plus they may attempt to have Minn. take L.Will.!s salary off us over the summer when they are under the cap. If these 4 guys [George,Henry,Hayward and Anderson] are there at #16 it could allow us to get our center [Cousins] and our s.g. along with a rotational guy at #23. But, and here is the big but, only if Cousins is close to Turner and Favors in talent AND passes the interview test. Would ya?

  2. Pete says:

    just to be clear, I wrote this. not trying to poke fun at you, I just have no idea if Dannie agrees with anything I wrote.

    It sounds like (from draft express) that Cousins already failed his first interview test. He has no idea why people think he has attitude problems on or off the court. He also was stand-off-ish with most of his answers.

    If Favors were to drop to #4, I’d do it – but I think you have to leave this draft with Favors or Turner.

  3. deepsixersuede says:

    Pete, I apologize; Maybe we can get our boy K.Love from Minny.

  4. Dannie says:

    I love Turner.  I really like Favors.  I like Cousins.  I like Johnson.

    That is where I stand right now.

    I want to learn about Turners athletic testing.  I want to know if he can jump and move quickly in these tests.  I don’t have any worries about his skill level or his basketball instincts.

    I could care less how Favors does in the athletic tests.  I want to know about his offensively skill level.  His man-to-man post defense.  His pick and roll defense.

    Cousins needs to prove he isn’t a douche bag and a slacker.  I don’t question his offensive skill level or his defensive and rebounding ability.

    Johnson I want to know about his heart, his toughness, his ability to develop ball handling skills and his overall mentality as a player.  Basically, is he soft or tough. Will he ever be able to do some things with the ball in terms of scoring, creating, passing.

  5. Dannie says:

    Suede - I already banned Pete for writing about a K.Love to Philly trade!!

  6. deepsixersuede says:

    Dannie, Alabi was the only big to use the glass on the wing shooting drills and T.Booker looked real smooth from both elbow spots. The more I read about Turner!s meanstreak the more I do like him. Should be a fun month ahead.

  7. Pete says:

    Cousins needs to prove he isn’t a douche bag”

    That was hilarious.

    Will def. be a fun month suede – we can really focus in on these 4 guys instead of when you are picking 16th or something and 12 guys could be options.

  8. Pete says:

    also – someone who isn’t being talked about enough that I would throw into your 16th pick area is Dominique Jones from USF. He’s gonna be a riser I think.

  9. bebopdeluxe says:

    A couple of people have laughed at my suggestion of trading the #2 pick to the Nets for the #3 pick and Courtney Lee.  Favors’ measurements definitely are part of that thought process…and if I think that it might make sense to take Favors, what can we get from the Nets for the rights to Turner?

    Lee won’t play much with Turner there, but the guy is only 24, a legit 6’5″ who seems to like to play D, and I think there could be something there…

    Holiday
    Lee
    Iguodala
    Favors
    Sammy

    or

    Holiday
    Lee
    Iggy
    Thad
    Favors

    or

    Holiday
    Lee
    Iguodala
    Brand
    Favors

    You still have a young backcourt, and your frontcourt gets a LOT younger.

    Hmmm….

  10. Dannie says:

    Nope – You can probably get much more from Minnesota via trade in the form of more first round picks and maybe them taking a player (salary) from us (like Lou/Willie/Kapono etc.)

  11. bebopdeluxe says:

    Yeah…but you won’t get Favors.

    You might get the Nets to take one of those salaries as well.,..say, Louis’ contract for an expiring in 2011…

    #2 and Lou for #3, Lee and Kris Humphries

  12. Pete says:

    interesting idea – particularly if the Sixers decide they like Favors better anyway.

  13. Dan says:

    Did any of you guys actually watch Favors play last year? Or do you just want him because of his measurements? The kid has immense physical talent but completely disappears for stretches, looking lost and even lazy at times. He’s extremely raw and scored a lot of his points by just physically dominating guys, rather than using true post moves (reason why a lot of his highlights are dunks).
     
    Flat out, the guy should have dominated in a weak ACC this past season. He can’t use the excuse that he had to split minutes or floor space with Lawal, or that GT didn’t have a point guard, as the ACC had very little at PF and C this past season. What’s he going to do when he gets to the league and he is facing guys with his athleticism?
     
    I think Favors has a chance to be one of the best players in the draft but also a chance to be “just ok”. I personally don’t want to take a building project with the #2 pick in the draft, nor would I want to take one at #3 or #4. I want the best player available, who fits a glaring need, and is ready to contribute immediately. And that’s Turner.
     
    BTW, being a Big East fan I watch a lot of Cuse games this past season. Johnson is a guy who’s going to be a solid starter in the pros, nothing more. Not really sure why people are so enamoured with him. And we’ve already got a guy like him on the team, his name is Thaddeus Young. If I’m the Sixers and I’m taking a Cuse player, it’s going to be Andy Rautins with a 2nd round pick acquired in a trade or as a free agent.

  14. pg says:

    ” “Cousins needs to prove he isn’t a douche bag”
    That was hilarious.”
     
    I was going to post the exact same thing.
    Surprised about the Favors comparison to Okafur.  Makes me almost think of KG in terms of what scouts might be hoping for.

  15. Chuck says:

    Thank you dan.. spot on

  16. Chuck says:

    If im the Sixers I am not trading the second pick period end of sentence. Turner and Wall are the only sure things in my mind and the Sixers can’t afford to miss on this pick. Wesley Johnson was a very good player at Syracuse but I don’t see star potential. Derrick Favors could be the real deal given his immense physical talent and athleticism.. however he was so inconsistent against the ACC. His potential is there.. as he did improve towards the end of the season.. but in the two tournament games he didn’t really show up.. he is what he is… a potential pick and while their is the chance he could turn into a really good NBA player, I expect Turner to turn into a really good NBA player. As far as DeMarcus Cousins is concerned while his footwork in college was incredible.. he doesn’t have a great body.. and is a complete dbag.

  17. Dannie says:

    I don’t think Dan is spot on even a little bit honestly.

  18. jjg says:

    Sixers’ 2 pick isn’t a no-brainer.  History shows it.  You have to go all the way back to ’92 (Shaq, Alonzo) to find a drafting of 1 and 2 that didn’t include a mistake. 

  19. Dave T says:

    Dan – I’m 100% with you regarding Favors.  I think people are really, really obsessing over his athleticism and upside, as opposed to actually having watched what he did last year at ‘GTech.  There were a lot of stretches where he wasnt involved on offense, looked slow, raw, unsure, and honestly the guy is an enormous project.  Could he pan out?  Yes.  He could be GREAT.  But I dont see how anyone could possibly know that, any more or less than  anyone will truly know how good Jrue Holiday or D’Andre Jordan wil be from last year.  I’m sure he’ll make a good pro, but dude is way too raw.  Cousins offensive game is light years beyond Favors.
     
    With Cousins, I think it’s amusing that even his own teammates (Orton) comment on his attitude / crazy side and acknowledge it.  Not exactly a good sign for the NBA.  Everyone seems to say the same thing: “He;s got a good heart, but huge anger / tantrum issues and right now is a kid that needs to grow up.”  I stil think, talent wise, he’s the #2 pick in this draft, but no way Id touch him.
     
    Evan.  Turner.

  20. Chuck says:

    Well you can  make the argument that Gtechs lack of chemistry and true point guard play hurt Derrick Favors… as I think Paul Hewitt is an awful coach… plus he did improve toward the end of ACC play. Listen their is no doubt Favors has a lot of potential… it’s just that when you weigh the negatives and the positives I would give the edge to Turner. I think the reason a lot of people are thinking about Favors is because of the whole Dwight Howard/Emeka Okafor draft. Okafor dominated at the college level like Evan Turner while Dwight Howard was just a high schooler who tons and tons of athleticism ala Derrick Favors.. and I understand that I just don’t see as much potential with Favors. Plus I am not sold John Wall is the first pick.. I know im in the minority here but I got a sneaky feeling turner is closer to the first pick then people think… I also predicted we would get the second pick so who knows.

  21. Pete says:

    Since Okafor is at least somewhat similar to Favors, lets compare their freshmen years (per 36 minutes)…..

    Okafor (30 mpg): 9.5 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 1.0 apg, 4.9 bpg, 1.0 spg, 59 FG%, 62 FT%

    Favors (27 mpg): 16.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.3 apg, 2.8 bpg, 1.1 spg, 61 FG%, 63 FT%

  22. tk76 says:

    FYI
    Compared to Roy coming out…
    Turner is 0.5″ taller, same wingspan, 2.5″ longer reach, 0.5″ more no step vert (34.5″) (so 3″ higher max point on vert.) Same 3/4 court sprint time.
    So by the available numbers, similar athlete, slightly better length.
    ..

    Top 5 no-step vertical list:
    .
    Jordan Crawford Xavier 36″
    Evan Turner Ohio State 34.5″
    John Wall Kentucky 30″
    Darington Hobson New Mexico 29″
    Xavier Henry Kansas 28.5″
    .
    .
     


    25-yard sprint (unofficial times)
    3.14 for Wall (fastest of the day)
    3.27 for ET (5th fastest time)

  23. deepsixersuede says:

    To Chuck and Dan, Turner!s freshman numbers ; 8 PTS., 4 reb., 3 ass.; I guess he isn!t a top ten pick. He is almost 3 years older than Favors. The 2nd half of his freshman year Favors numbers went way up and Turner was in a very good situation for his skills this year, surrounded by some real good catch-n-shoot guys. I like Turner a lot but if Favors can be a dominant defensive presence he is tough to pass on.

    Getting a big is tougher to me than getting a wing scorer, although Turner does more than that. In Deleo I will trust.

  24. Dannie says:

    TK – Where are you getting these numbers?  Not posted on Draft Express yet.

  25. Dannie says:

    I have two concerns with Favors…

    1. His assertiveness
    2. His ability to improve on the offensive end

    Those are the same two knocks I have with Dwight Howard from the time he came into the league until now.  I just don’t think he is the beast offensively he should be.  That’s both skill-wise and with his aggression.

    I think of Favors the same way.

    I hate passive players.  I have passive bigs even more.  Favors had on and off assertiveness his freshman year.  Some of that had to do with the team he played on.  But, that isn’t excuse enough for his passivity.  I think he is a good kid and that’s cool, but I want a monster physically AND mentally.

    Also, I think its immensely harder for bigs to develop offensively because of the lack of game touches and situations.

    I have no doubt he will be a force defensively in the league.  But there is a real chances that’s all he becomes.  I very strong defender/rebounder that you really can’t rely on offensively.

    Is that worth the #2 pick?

  26. deepsixersuede says:

    He doesn!t seem robotic like Dwight but it is a concern. Definitely will need a bigman coach to refine him. Dannie, if Horford is a 6 and Howard a 10 on a scale where do you see Favors eventually?  Patterson measured out well and Udoh wasn!t as long as I expected; Davis measured well and Aldrich weighed in the 230!s.

  27. Chuck says:

    He doesn’t have the body Dwight Howard had though.. that is something to figure in. When you look at Dwight Howard you can only argue Lebron maybe more of a freak of nature physically speaking. When you look at Derrick Favors it is just kinda meh. I don’t see the physical presence in Favors that Dwight brings each night.

  28. Dannie says:

    Suede - That’s hard to answer.

    For one I don’t think Howard is a 10.  He is a 10 defensively.  I’d say Favors could be on the level of Horford overall, with more emphasis on his defense and less offense than Horford brings.

    I do agree that Favors seems like he is a bit more fluid offensively than Howard (who by his own words said he sometimes plays like a robot).

    I like the way Favors can run the floor, I’ve seen some potential to face up and make a move to the basket with his right hand.

    He has a lot of potential as a basketball player.  But, what is the likely scenario?

    Lets say Favors reaching a good deal of his potential, but not all.  Is he really better than Turner is now?  And that’s not even considering the fact that Turner will get better as well.

    Suede, let me ask you this… What is your goal with this pick?  How much risk are you willing to take with this pick?

  29. jjg says:

    Favors looks limber though.  Physically impressive kid.  Big men are hard to find, especially ones interested in lane play.  If they’re waiting on Jrue to develop, why not add Favors and bring him along too.  Team will be somewhat improved through Collins’ intensity and know-how, but the addition of another 6’7″ swingman in Turner won’t turn the tide unless he’s the second coming of John Havlicek or George Gervin, which I highly doubt.  Gimme 5ft. grunting over 20 ft. ballet
    any day.  A championship was never had without strong paint service.

  30. Dave T says:

    Why the Howard / Favors comparison is not valid:

     
    I’m a big believer in trying to look out for “flashes” and small details in a young player’s game during their freshman or rookie year…especially if they arent getting a lot of touches, minutes, or the offense doesn’t run through them much.  While it’s true that all 18-21 year olds have massive room for improvement, I think you have to possess a certain skill level or natural sense of the game to begin with.
     
    Dwight Howard, even though his ’05 season is obviously far inferior to the player hes become, always showed a natural capability for DEFENSE.  This was a guy who, for his age, showed an awareness on defensive rotations that was far beyond other young player’s years.  He had natural shot blocking instincts, had been taught defensive fundamentals (legitimately boxed out, used center of gravity in his stances, showed excellent form in fronting defenders as well as playing behind them, etc), and you could see in his rookie season not just the raw tools of the body, but flashes of the type of defender he would become.
     
    IMO, Favors has not shown the same thing in any area of the game. I dont see any area with BASKETBALL he excels at, right now.  None.  He’s not a particularly good shooter, his footwork in the post needs a lot of work, he is very slow on the block, a ballstopper on offense, and his IQ is really lacking, not a great passer.  I’m not saying he”s bad at these things…he’s shown to be “pretty good” in many areas.  But there’s no way you can look at him and accurately predict where his money will be in the NBA.  I think, for the #2 pick in the draft, you need to have SOME sense of the type of player he’ll become.  Right now Favors is a real good defensive rebounder, showed huge improvement with his face-the-basket game (great 10 foot jumpshot), and seems to have a vague sense of footwork in the post, but not how to apply it yet.  And, as Dannie said, he’s clearly not a guy that’s going to light the world on fire with his intensity, drive, and passion.  To me, that’s not enough to justify the 2nd pick in the draft.
     
    I also think people underrate the amount of growth juniors/seniors in college can show. Just because you are an older college player, doesnt mean your improvement stops.  In fact, I think Turner’s best trait is just how much he’s shown willingness to dedicate to his game.  OSU teammates have talked openly about how shocked they were that he turned it around and became this good from his freshman year…he plays with a chip on his shoulder, and that is something you can’t teach.

  31. deepsixersuede says:

    Chuck, I believe they are basically the same at 18. Dannie, I keep coming back to this; if we take Turner we are out of future lotteries without a big. We have a jack of all trades wing [Iggy], a young p.g.[Jrue] and basically that is all, if Sammy leaves. A spot up shooter between Jrue and Iggy seems easier to get in future drafts in the 12 to 20 range than a starting defensive 5/4. I would rather get my center and add my scorer than viceversa but only if they are close talent wise. My question to you is, does Collins get Sam to buy in if they start winning and stay ?  And if Sammy leaves can we get a big without a high pick or cap space.

  32. deepsixersuede says:

    DaveT., did not see either in senior high school season or know their highschool stats but Favors was rated very highly. Dwight, after a few years in the pros still looks raw offensively. Howard, on the defensive end really understands where to be it seems but offensively is taking small steps. Lets not forget that Howard went straight to the N.B.A. where it is easier to beat one guy than the types of defenses colleges throw at you. Favors seemed a lot more polished in the last 10 games or so .

  33. Dannie says:

    Disagree.

    Finding big men is not hard.  Finding bigs who want to play in the lane is not hard.

    Finding GOOD big men is tough.  Finding bigs who are good at playing in the lane is tough.

    There are more than a handful of legit bigs in this draft who all like to patrol the lane.

    Where the discrepancy is right now regarding Turner and Favors is the actual talent level.  To me, people seem to think they are on the same level and they aren’t.

    One is far and away superior as a basketball player.  Let me repeat, as a basketball player.  And one is superior physically, but has not developed into a basketball player yet.

    So the pick between the two comes down to draft a player or draft a trainee who may or may not turn into a real player.

  34. Dave T says:

    Suede – I see what you’re saying man, and we def. start need to thinking about our post Sammy big man.  Let’s not forget Speights though, it’s not like he’s chump change, and I think we can all agree that EJ completely destroyed half our player’s confidence throughout the season with his utterly ridiculous rotations.  Speights has shown a surprising dedication to his game, and if we can get him to play efficiently in the team defense area, offensively I think many people would be ok with his output as a post Brand starting PF.  Time will tell.
     
    It’s also not like you can’t get a skilled big man through the draft, trade or free agency.  Now, it’s rare to get a dominant big this way, but I’d rather take the overall better player, regardless of position, and groom him, and worry about the big later.  Plenty of solid centers come out in the draft each year that can rebound, play defense, and be nice role players.  Many are available in the 6 – 15 ranges in the draft.

  35. Dannie says:

    I get the positional distinction and importance.  But if you draft Favors you are drafting a better body and athlete but not even close to a better player now and possibly (most likely) ever.

    I don’t think I can take that chance with this pick.

    Further, by drafting Turner you now create more assets with which to go after the big you want.  Thad becomes more expendable.  Lou is more expendable.  And to a MUCH lesser degree Iguodala is more expendable.

    Hypothetical, say we draft Turner we could offer a sign and trade for Al Horford next summer with Iguodala if Joe Johnson leaves Atlanta.  You can go after Kendrick Perkins. Jokim Noah.

    Hell, would Toronto do a sign and trade for Bosh if we offer Iguodala?  What about Boozer?

    These are all bigs that have proven themselves in this league already.  Most are young.  Takes a good, creative GM to make things happen.

    And besides that, no one has still addressed the fact that I think Favors is passive and I just don’t think that changes over time.  And that is a REAL concern.  And I think passive players have a MUCH higher chance of not improving or reaching their potential than more aggressive, competitive guys.

  36. deepsixersuede says:

    If they take Turner, Sam stays and Spieghts becomes an 18 and 8 guy that Collins can push to defend than we will be in good shape. What did you guys think of the back and forth between Collins and Brand? He has to see tape as a commentator right, can he get more rebounds and better picknroll defense out of him?

  37. deepsixersuede says:

    Dannie, all good points; How bout Dirk opting out possibly?

  38. Dannie says:

    This is also a deep draft for bigs, which is unusual.  The Sixers should be working the phones to get a later first round pick that they can use on the best available big later in the draft (Alabi, Sanders, Brackins, Patterson or whoever drops).

  39. Dannie says:

    Dirk has to be frustrated with not succeeding more and he should look at all his options.  But I think there is a less than 1% chance he leaves Dallas.

  40. deepsixersuede says:

    What did you take out of the Spurs interest in Favors? Does Parker and Blair or Jefferson move them up that far?  That aren!t gonna blow it up, are they?

  41. jjg says:

    Nice diatribe, Dannie.  Tell me something I don’t know. 

  42. Dannie says:

    JJG - One minute you talk about guys whose main attribute is athletic ability (Iguodala) as a negative, then the only thing you have to say about Favors is that he is big and limber and that being enough to take him over a far superior basketball player that is 3 inches shorter.  Consistency?

  43. jjg says:

    No, Iguodala’s main attribute is a screwy head.  Make no mistake about that.  I’ve alluded to his athletic ability to be fair and kind.  

    My comments on Favors are based only on a highlight tape recently viewed.  I really liked what I saw.  And just read that he pledged to work hard and give it his all at next level.  Words are cheap, yes, but his potential is obvious.  My consistency is in valuing defense, rebounding and firm interior play over headlining ballhogs/perimeter scorers.  Given the store of Sam the Sham, Mumbles Brand and Crazy Speights, I’ll take my chances on a very athletic-looking baby big since they started a nursery direction with Bugs Holiday.

      

  44. jjg says:

    With early leavings and talent dilution, College Player Of The Year isn’t  what it used to be.  I’ll be surprised if Turner equals the career of Jerry Stackhouse.  Wing players come and wing players go.  The playmakers and big boys make the difference.    

  45. Pete says:

    where did we see that Spurs had interest in Favors?

  46. Dave T says:

    Highlight tapes – (warning: the following is not meant to sound like a jackass statement, but I just happen to feel strongly about this one).  Highlight tapes, particularly the ones found on youtube, are the single most misleading, worthless, non-valuable, worst tool of judging and evaluating a player that currently exists on the internet.  Why?
     
    1.  Film is an art of manipulation.  Any good editor and writer with a camera knows how to provoke any emotion they want out of a viewer.  You are talking about editing out 403124830284328342 clips from a player’s season that are awful, horendous, boring and show their flaws and weaknesses,and highlighting select plays that cant help but elicit a “WOW!” effect from a viewer.
     
    2.  It is impossible.  IMPOSSIBLE.  To judge any one player from such a small body of work.  Splicing in the several seconds of time they make some dunk, amazing pass, shot..I mean, what does this show?  You could make a equivalent highlight reel taking Kobe Bryant’s terrible plays, turnovers, missed shots, trigger happy game and blown defensive assignments and make Kobe look like a shmuck.
     
    3.  It is ignores the small details of a players game.  A highlight mix tape doesnt show how a player sets a pick, how a player sets up his man to come off a pick, how a player defends xyz situation, how a player’s on ball defense is, how a player’s rotation is, a player’s subtle footwork in the post, a player;s form in missed shots as opposed to made shots, a player’s body language, and most importantly, the ebb and flow of how a player reacts during a game.  There are honestly about 50 separate categories of details of basketball a highlight reel DOES NOT SHOW.
     
    4.  Highlight reels that you find on youtube, are specifically catered for the same audience ESPN highlights are for: the casual fan, to keep them entertained.  Usually playing basketball the “right way’ wll never make a highlight mix.
     
    5.  I highlight reels, athleticism is usually what is underscored, NOT knowledge of the actual game.  It is not possible to judge basketball IQ, moving without the ball, intuitive sense of the game from videos that are taylor-made to show dunks, how high people can jump, and how fast they run, and how much they embaress an opponent.
     
    So if very single important basketball trait CANT be shown in a highlight reel…what can you learn, aside from, “Oh, wow, this guy is athletic and moves fast?”  You guessed it…nothing!  True talent needs to be evaluated from watching actual games.  There is no way opinions should ever be formed off manipulative highlight reels made for fans.
     
    The highlight reels that ARE worthy, the only ones, are where you might be specifically looking for a player’s offensive plays where he has the ball, and scouts will edit individual games shortcuttingto every important play that the player in question has the ball for a lengthy period of time.  Even THIS is silly, as just as important as when the players have the ball is when they dont, and to watch how they react without the ball, if they are able to read and know the play ahead of the play, if they are doing small things off the ball to help the team win, leading their man to areas, playing decoy, getting in position to set a pick for a future ball swing…etc, the list goes on.
     
    Youtube highlight reels are worthless endeavors and opinions based on them, IMO, are worthless.  Gotta watch the actual games to be able to hold a valid opinion.

  47. jkay says:

    …and the award for best-point-driven-home goes to….
     
    interesting discussion guys. Whoever makes the pick, I am supremely confident we will all be satisfied with the result. Is really not much of a dilemma. we have too much time on our hands to consider all the endless, meaningless possibilities and scenarios.
    close your eyes, open them, 3 seconds to decide, gotcha moment – you have the #2 pick, who do you draft?
    over-thinking?
     
    Evan for Philly.
    Redemption 2010.

  48. jkay says:

    does anyone believe Courtney Lee is a starting caliber 2 guard?
    if so then proposed trade may hold some merit.

  49. deepsixersuede says:

    Pete, I read, I believe on Draft express, that Favors surprisingly was interviewed by the Spurs and commented,” I think they are going to move up and pick me”. Splitter seems like a dead end because of the money he makes in Europe.

    J.Kay, we can!t go wrong if they don!t do anything stupid.

  50. Dan says:

    Dannie, I don’t mind not being spot on, or even a little bit spot on. But can you elaborate as to why?
     
    Suade, I appreciate your enthusiasm for Favors but have you actually watched him play? He would not start for the Sixers next year and would be the second or third big off the bench. The kid fundamentally is not that good of a basketball player right now. I don’t understand what the kid has done to convince you that he’ll not only be a starter, but an all-start player, in the NBA? I can see more of an arguement for Cousins, as he can contribute right away and showed it last year. Same with Monroe. But Favors??? I really just don’t get it.
     
    I think a lot of people are getting caught up in “talent” and “rankings”. Evan Turner and John Wall are far and away the two best players in this draft. The Sixers have the second pick. They would make a major blunder if they did not take either of the two.

  51. jjg says:

    Dave T,  Your enthusiasm outlasted your wisdom.  9 paragraphs on that subject?!  A response drenched in hubris.  Tip:  pomposity will get you attention but ya need 2 bucks for a good cup of coffee.

    A “valid opinion” … hmmm … like yours of last July? …

    “Marco:  I just saw the same move on Hoopsworld before logging on here, and had the same exact thought as you. “Why couldn’t we have landed Bellenelli?” [practice what you preach for credibility's sake]

    OR

    [regarding Jordan & Sixers]“… at least we’ll have a coach that runs a proper basketball offense, instead of this ridiculous isolation garbage that has destroyed the NBA.  WE WILL BE FUN TO WATCH.”
    [Caps, mine]

    Someone isn’t as impeccable in judgement or as astute in evaluation 
    as he would have you believe.  Right, Dave T? 
     
     jkay, I beg to differ … best point driven off pier.

  52. deepsixersuede says:

    Dan, neither Turner or Monroe would of started in the N.B.A. after their freshman year and neither were probably top ten picks, it is all relative. But Dannie is winning over to Turner with one thing he mentioned, personality. Favors and Johnson do seem a bit passive where Turner and Cousins seem to want to rip your heart out. That is something that the sixers have to take into account for sure. That personality separates a Wade from a player close in skill and is a good reason to pick said player.

  53. jjg says:

    Turner competed in current Big 10, not big 10 of 80s.  May turn out to be a fine player, but Wade’s ferocity combined with his natural ability is a rare mix.

  54. jkay says:

    suede: though it sounds vague. it cannot be underrated. the sixers havent interviewed anyone yet right?
    I doubt that Doug Collins would allow Stefanksi to pass up Turner, if he were so dumb. unless Collins possesses zero leverage or sumthin.
     
    Favors is the player you want…at #3. Turner is very good now. and will get better. as much as big men are valuable, you cannot gamble your franchise’s only shot at a lottery pick in the last 12 yrs or so, on a project that may or may not make it there. we dont have that luxury. we are the Philadelphia Sixers remember? do I really need to bring out the highlight reel out from our games against Memphis, Minnesota or Washington?

  55. jjg says:

    Temperament is a key consideration though when drafting.  Turner has had some attitudinal bumps in the road at Ohio State, based on what I’ve read.  Could signal a personality weakness or it could be an offshoot of high expectations and ambition. 

  56. Dan says:

    It’s not all relative Suede. Turner can contribute at a high level next year. Favors may NEVER be able to contribute at a high level. You’re basically stating that we should take a shot on Favors because he has a chance at being a good player. But Turner is ALREADY a great player.
    My point is that Favors is a gamble. A big gamble. You don’t know what you’re going to get.  Most big men who make the jump after a year are studs who smashed the competition in college (i.e. Cousins). Favors showed glimpses, but that’s it. Add in the fact that he fundamentally is not a good basketball player and picking him at #2 makes no sense, especially over a sure thing in Turner.
     

  57. guest says:

    I certainly think that our management will take picking Favors into high consideration.  Why wouldn’t they?  We obviously aren’t going to completely make up our mind this early on.
     
    So what do you guys think we could get from New Jersey if they want to trade up to #2?  I think that is something to consider if you’re leaning towards Favors, because not only do we get him, but we might just get something else as well.

  58. Chuck says:

    JJG Im an ACC and Big East guy but the big ten with Ohio State, Mich St, Purdude before Hummel got hurt was a pretty strong confrence. I watched all the interviews on draftexpress and was very impressed by John Wall, Turner, and Daniel Orton. As for the not so much Demarcus Cousins (big shocker) Greg Monroe. I wasn’t at all suprised by John Wall being impressive being that I follwed his recruitment very hard since he was deciding between Duke and Kentucky and he came off as a very inteligent young man. I love Turners attitude and I get the sense he believes he will be a go to guy unline Iggy who just wants to believe it.

  59. Dannie says:

    JJG – “Turner has had some attitudinal bumps in the road at Ohio State, based on what I’ve read.”

    Link? Share the knowledge.

  60. Dannie says:

    By the way – Good discussion all, keep it coming.

  61. jjg says:

    Chuck, Interesting takes.  Have only seen & heard Cousins (seems to need a life coach, mentor or John Thompson-like guidance … someone he can trust; some of reporters’ questions, offensive) and Turner (OK, wasn’t wowed by him; seems eager to launch NBA star journey) being interviewed.  Of course both viewings were of just a moment in time.
    Didn’t know Wall was courted by Duke.      

  62. jjg says:

    Dannie,  Don’t have source/link offhand.  If I find it, I’ll pass it along.  Recently read though.

  63. deepsixersuede says:

    Dan, I have to disagree; compare Cousins and Favors numbers this year, very close; and now flip flop them to the others respective team and think of what Favors couldv!e done with 2 rather than no p.g. . As far as Turner being more finished a product? Let!s compare Favors to last years pick, Holliday; Both are the youngest in their draft class and Favors had a better year than Jrue did and Jrue ended up starting here and contributing at 19 so how can you sit here and say Favors can!t step in and play next year, what are you basing that on. I think if N.J. picks him he slides right in next to Lopez.

    Jumpin, you know who I want but I!ll be honest with you, your underestimating Turner, in my opinion, he seems to be a guy that makes everybody better and doesn!t have tunnel vision when it comes to scoring the ball. I actually think he may be a better p.g. than s.g. . The reason I want Favors is I think he can be a top 5 big for the next 15 years where Turner will be the same thing at a position I value less, that!s it in a nutshell to me.

  64. jjg says:

    suede,  I very well may be underestimating him.  Jerardi loved him.  That tells me he’s a player.  We’ll see how much of one on next level.  Am eager to learn more about each of the top guys.  I prioritize prime beef too.  Favors and Cousins have chances to be very good.  Draft Day is shaping up as a captivating one.  Could be some trades and selection position movement.   

  65. deepsixersuede says:

    Guys, what is harder to build around, a ball dominant wing [Turner, Lebron] or a defensive big [Favors,Howard]. Orlando and Cleveland seemed close to figuring it out yet both took major steps back this year.

  66. Dan says:

    I can sit here and say he would be unable to step in and play right away based on watching him play multiple times last year. He relies on his athleticism to score, does not have a go to offensive move under the basket, looks lost and disinterested for stretches, has shitty footwork, etc etc. He would be behind Brand, Sam, Speights, and Jason Smith.
     
    Flip flop Cousins and Favors and Cousins averages 20 ppg and 12 rpg in the shitty ACC and Favors averages the same numbers. Cousins is much more skilled from a basketball point of view than Favors and would have absolutely destroyed the competition in the ACC.
     
    I agree that the kid has potential, but the Sixers are in no position to take a gamble on a phsyically talented big man with raw raw raw basketball skills with the #2 pick in the draft. Want to know what happened the last time they did that? They took Shawn F’ing Bradley with the second pick in the 1993 draft over Penny Hardaway!!!
     
    Please tell me what you’ve seen in Favors that gives you the impression that he’ll be one of the top 5 big men in the game for the next 15 years?

  67. Chuck says:

    Yeah Duke threw everything they had at him… Coach K gave him Jason Williams comparisons and his father figure Brian Clifton had a man crush on coach K…. but Wall really seemed to love coach Cal (something I will never be able to figure out) and it worked out for both parties obvisouly as Wall has positioned himself to be the first pick and Duke won the national title with Scheyer as the point guard due to his IQ not his skills or athleticism.
     
    Another note… based off articles I have read and maybe im just being naive.. I don’t think its a sure thing Wall is the first pick. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/21/AR2010052104601.html
     

  68. jjg says:

    Both teams were stifled by the same veteran Celtics team whose members were intent on playing well as a unit, are past the juvenile ‘rock star’ showboat stage, bring game face and game.  In my opinion, both James and Howard need to grow up or at least grow past their present comfort levels.  Can’t say their teams’ executives aren’t trying to build support, grab the Ring.

  69. deepsixersuede says:

    Chuck, Wall and Cousins seemed like complete opposites in the interview process and Patterson, along with measuring out over 6!9″, seemed to guarentee himself a top 10 pick. How about N.Orleans not interviewing any players that didn!t participate in the basketball skills drills? Ballsy but a bit counterproductive. Dan, we can agree to disagree and time will tell . I saw a good midrange jumpshot, a decent spin move down low and an above average offensive rebounder who didn!t get many touches early in the year. I actually like Lawal as an off the bench big, ala Millsap, and think ,like Collison did this year, he will show why Favors had to wait and earn his touches like Jrue had to at U.C.L.A. .

  70. Dave T says:

    Suede – Agree about Lawal, he’d made a nice 2nd round pick as a rebounding big.  I don’t think he’s comparable to Millsap, a guy who is just a bulldog in the paint and will overpower and workhorse teams for rebounds and putbacks, but I think Lawal could definitely play himself into a 7th – 8th man on the right NBA team.



    Dan – We are on the same page regarding Favors.  I love the kid’s potential, love his size/athleticism, but to me that doesn’t mean squat compared to your most important point: right now, he lacks, big time, a lot of fundamental areas of the game.  What he’s shown in glimpses to me doesnt warrant gambling a #2 pick on him.  I think the word “gamble” should not be used with the 2nd pick for the most part…at least in our situation this year.  We’re playing with house money, and shouldnt mess around.
     
    Chuck – I’ve been reading the same comments about the Wiz…Wilbon actually brought it up (Wall not 100% to go #1) on PTI the other day, and one of the local Wash Post reporters wrote the same thing (I’m based in DC right now).  From my vantage point down here, everything Ive read makes it seem like they are def. going with Wall, and I certainly know the entire fan base is basically treating him like he’s a part of the Wizards, and that he and Gil will be their backcourt next year, with Josh Howard or Thornton at SF, Blatche at PF, at McGee at C.  I think those types or articles coming out are the kind of necessary articles the media needs to put out to put a bit more excitement into things, and for the Wiz to throw out just so they can say they are really doing their homework and not making kneejerk decision.
     
    The Sixers, on the other hand, I think really are going to look into trading the pick.  Not that they will do it…just put whispers out there and see the type of trade packages that teams would be willing to offer.  The SG/SF position is a pretty big hole for a lot of teams, so I’m sure GMs will calling left and right.  I just hope we make the right decision, stay patient, draft Turner, and see what the Holiday/Turner/Iguodala threesome can do.
     
    JJG – Yes, 9 paragraphs was a little much, but as I said at the beginning of the post, its something I care about.  I see so many people make judgements based on these videos, and IMO, its just 100% faulty information.   I have no problem with, and welcome, all views of anyone no matter how much I agree or disagree with them…as long as it comes from actually people watching a player during a game.  I’m not sure what bringing up a past point that I made a year ago…which, yes, turned out to be wrong…has to do with my arguing over the invalidity of youtube highlight videos though?



    Dannie – In an earlier post you made a point that I really agree with: that Thad Young is the truly expendable one, whereas Iguodala is far less so.  I just like your line of thinking there…I think it’s probably a mistake to just up and trade Iguodala now that we have a strong rookie coming in…important not to forget the guy is and has always been a borderline all star type, and on the right team, would be an all star, and 3rd banana.  We are starting to amass a young core that is legitimately talented and can, Speights aside, defend…would be great to see Iguodala evolve with them.  I think trading Iguodala, like all “ideas” should be explored for now…but wouldnt rush to move him.

  71. Dave T says:

    Evan Turner on working on his shooting this summer (from Hoopsworld.com):

    “I’m making 550 shots a day – threes, off the dribble, stuff like that.  Going in twice a day – trying to keep a good rhythm going – get a lot of shots up and gain confidence through repetition.”
    “It needs to be more consistent but I don’t think I’ll ever be the guy who just sits there waiting for a three,” said Turner.  “I like to penetrate and work on the mid-range level then get my teammates the ball – put pressure on the defense.  I definitely need to hit the three-point shot to keep the defense off balance.”

  72. deepsixersuede says:

    DaveT., I feel it is less of a gamble than most, just because everything I read about Favors seems to say he is a hard worker and coachable and with Collins here it seems like a can!t miss to me. My one question on Turner is how good he will be off the ball and will he drift into the same spots as Iggy. Iggy is a good catch-n-shoot guy according to numbers accumulated by D.Bodner and synergy and Jrue showed good at catching and shooting also so if we take Turner let those 3 get used to each other and get a highpost 5 [S.Hawes type] or a more polished Spieghts to join the party.

  73. Pete says:

    When do they do the vertical, shuttle, etc?? Any guesses on who will have the highest vert?

  74. Dannie says:

    TK76 posted some numbers above.  Though I have no clue where he got them as they aren’t posted anywhere I’ve been able to find online.

  75. Ken Bland says:

    Dirk has to be frustrated with not succeeding more and he should look at all his options.  But I think there is a less than 1% chance he leaves Dallas.>>

    I don’t know about tat 1% chance.  Cuban seems to have a way of getting on one’s nerves, and Dirk does an exemplary job of sounding vanilla in his press comments.  Steve Nash walked.  That wasn’t expected.  I’d put the chances at 20 per cent. 

  76. Marcus says:

    Just scrolling through the comments I thought Evan Turner was the hands down pick that everybody wanted???????????

    I dont follow college ball but what do u guys think about Monroe what do u think his ceiling is ????????????? 

  77. Dannie says:

    Ken - That isn’t accurate.

    Nash did not want to leave Dallas.  Nash is a really loyal guy and really liked playing with Dirk and in Dallas.

    Instead Cuban chose not to match Phoenix’s offer (6 years, 63M) when Nash was a free agent.  Cuban offered something like 4 years, 9M per year with an partially guaranteed 5th year.  Nash was 30 at the time.

    Nash tried to get Cuban to match, he didn’t.

    Cuban apparently didn’t want commit that much to Nash at the time.  He didn’t see him getting even better as he aged.

    That was Cuban’s mistake.  I don’t think he will be making the same one with Dirk.

  78. tk76 says:

    Dannie, it was from NBA TV’s live coverage,  Here’s one screen shot:
     
    http://www.libertyballers.com/2010/5/23/1484337/here-are-the-unofficial-top-5-no
     
    If I’m doing the math right, Turner’s no step jump max reach is 11’6″, which is close to he highest for a top 15 picked SG or SF ever on record. Higher than Iguodala, Wade and even Durant, A. Randolph and Blake Griffin. Similar to guys like Okafor and Noah.So anyone who wonders why he is such a good rebounder…  At very least it suggests his college success should translate.

    .
    JJG, I think Turner has every reason to be confident in himself given he was head and shoulders the best college player in the country.  He almost single handedly led his team to a #1 seed and nearly led the Big 10 in scoring, rebounding and assists while shooting 52%.
     

  79. Dannie says:

    Curious what his max vertical is.  That number is more important for wing players since they aren’t doing as much standstill jumping.

    But what his no step vertical tells me is he has very good power development/maximal strength in his lower body and is capable of more explosive leaping with proper training.  If his max vertical isn’t off the charts it just means he needs to work on his rate of force development or in layman’s terms he needs to work on speed and quickly converting the power he already has into a jump while on the move.

  80. joof says:

    I’m suprised at how intense the sixers fans are on this site.

    The site should be renamed recliner76ergm.com

    If the flyers make it to the finals wil there be an article on the team in general?

  81. Pete says:

    I’ll put something up on the Flyers if they get there.

  82. Dave T says:

    Marcus – To your question, Greg Monroe is an extremely talented big…that unfortunately, has Lamar Odom / Rasheed Wallace disease and will float in and out of games sometimes giving his all and looking like one of the best players in the country, and other times looking passive, soft, and disinterested.  He’s a gifted passer for a big man, has a real high bball IQ, moves without the ball really well, is very unselfish, and has a nice developing mid range jumpshot.  He can also be a beast on the boards…when he wants to.


    I don’t think on any draft board, fan site or analyst column anywhere would you see Greg Monroe even sniff the top 3, let alone our pick at 2.  He will likely go in the 5 – 8 range, and depending on the system he winds up in, could be a huge gamer or a real non factor.  He’d be ideal in a system like the Laker’s triangle offense, or with Sloan in Utah (I’m sure Utah will be looking to replace the oft-injured Okur with either Monroe or Aldrich…unless Wes Johnson is still left).

  83. Dave T says:
  84. deepsixersuede says:

    Dannie, I am won over; your mention of assertiveness evidently is a concern of some N.B.A. g.m.!s also and the fact that the rules, less contact, have allowed for it to be a wing and p.g. league over a big man!s league.  Turner has the proper mindset to be a star and that is my main reason. His athletism from the combine is icing on the cake, so to speak.

  85. Chuck says:

    When is Collins presser.. or did it already happen?

  86. Dannie says:

    Chuck - It happened at noon.  Should be video/transcript on Sixers.com.

    Here are some quotes

    Specifically:

    “This is going to be a defensive-minded team, with speed, quickness, high energy. We have some players on the team that I am going to have to revitalize, get their joy in the game back. When I look at the Eastern Conference, everything is so fluid … I feel very strongly the Philadelphia 76ers can be very competitive. I promised Mr. Snider this is a team he will enjoy watch to play, compete, play passionately and give fans their money’s worth. Nobody knows the pulse of the city as an athlete like I do. I know if you play hard, play with joy and play as a team these people will support you. I want people to come back, be happy about their team, build it day-by-day. I’m a builder. The bigger the challenge, the more it excites me. I’ve taken on challenges everywhere I’ve been.” ~ Doug Collins

  87. Dannie says:

    Suede – If we had the 3rd pick I wouldn’t hesitate but to take Favors.  I just don’t think he is currently a better player or will likely become a better player than Turner.  I have nothing against Favors, I really like him and think he is going to be a good pro.

    I think Turner is really going to be an impact player.

    I get the concerns about duplication but that’s not my problem.  That’s the coaches job to make it work AND the GMs job to make it work.  But you don’t pass on the better player this high in the draft for fit alone.

    I am not sure the Sixers are 100% a lock to draft Turner.  They could draft Favors (though I am not sure how that isn’t also duplication) or could trade the pick.

    If they draft Favors I’ll be fine (not happy) with it.  If they trade the pick I’ll most likely be furious, unless Stefanski pulls something off he hasn’t proved he is capable of.

  88. Dave T says:

    Dannie – Thanks for the quote from D Collins.  To me, the two highlights:
     
    1.  This is going to be a defensive minded team.  Nice to hear this out of the gate.
     
    2.   We have some players on the team that I am going to have to revitalize, get their joy in the game back. I like the fact Doug addressed this…clearly targeting Elton Brand, and likely Dalembert and Lou as well.  I like the fact he said that “I” am going to have to get back; the fact he sees it as his responsibility as coach to get this team amped up for playing cohesive ball again is great to hear.  It sounds like he’s ready to light a fire under some butts and remind players of the talent they once had.
     
    I really see Elton Brand having a revitalized year under Collins…I just think Collins is a vet that’s been around enough to see the ridiculous way he was yanked around and mistreated by EJ last year (as well as Brand’s low confidence)…I think it’s great he sees improving this area as an important part of the Sixers.

  89. tk76 says:

    Brand can be the same player but get credit for being “revitalized” if the team starts winning and playing better defense.   Collins, Turner and an improving Jrue could result in a big jump in wins next year.  Brand won’t be the focus of anything, but he will get a lot of credit for a “comeback.”

  90. Chuck says:

    tk76 it sounds to me like youre already preparing yourself to say Brand had nothing to due with out turnaround if we have a good season and he plays well… that’s an intelligent way of looking at it.

  91. Zack says:

    Would you do #2 and Jrue Holiday for #4 (DeMarcus Cousins), Flynn or Rubio and their other picks?  I watched Amare go for 40 yesterday and it just made me think – could we put up with Cousins’ crap for the regular season and just unleash him for the playoffs?  Can we expect that from Turner, someone who can carry us in playoff games?  I remember that Louisville/Kentucky game around New Year’s, Cousins looks like he could be reliable as a playoff go-to scorer/monster rebounder.
     
    Plus, I want the other picks, the Sixers need to start addressing our role player issues, we can’t have 8 guys who want to start: Sam, Brand, Young, Iguodala, Holiday, LouWill, Willie Green, our lottery pick.  I guess that’s one thing I like about Speights, he seems happy-go-lucky enough to settle for being a bench guy.

  92. Dannie says:

    Zack - No.

    Just as easily as you can point to the Louisville vs. Kentucky game in favor of Cousins I can point to the NCAA tournament game (read: the  playoffs!) where he was arguing with the coaching staff and completely lacked focus on the task at hand.

    Further, Amare is in tip top shape.  Cousins is not, nor do I expect him to ever be to be honest.  At least, I am at a “I’ll believe it when I see it” point with Cousins.  His people are saying he is in the best shape of his life – and that is still at least 30 pounds overweight.

    Minnesota isn’t trading Rubio and Johnny Flynn isn’t all that good to me, certainly not at all a better player than Jrue.  Also, you transition from defense (Jrue) to score-first, weak defense (Flynn aka Lou), for what?

    Also, I expect Cousins to be much weaker defensively in the NBA game as I don’t expect him to defend the pick and roll very well at all, I don’t expect him to handle face up bigs very well and I think he will have to deal with a lot of foul trouble.

    I am very curious what his athletic measurements turn out to be.

    His size (minus all the excess fat), and low block offense are great.  But that isn’t enough for me to draft him.

    Right now, I’d probably take Wesley Johnson over him if I had the choice at 4.

  93. Dannie says:

    Zack - I do agree that  I wish the Sixers franchise would value the draft more and make moves to acquire more picks both in the first round and second round.

    When was the last time we actually drafted in the 2nd round?

  94. tk76 says:

    Chuck wrote:
    “tk76 it sounds to me like youre already preparing yourself to say Brand had nothing to due with out turnaround if we have a good season and he plays well… that’s an intelligent way of looking at it.”

    Nope.  I’m just saying that the big name/salary guys are judged heavily based on team results.  Same applies for Iguodala.  In both cases they could put up similar stats/impact but be seen as heroes if the team wins.  And when you lose people look first to the big ticket players to assign blame.

    It comes with signing the big contract.

  95. tk76 says:

    “When was the last time we actually drafted in the 2nd round?”
    … and made the roster.

  96. deepsixersuede says:

    Dannie, if you didn!t here the Collins interview by Missanelli you should, a good draft story about Theo and D.Reid makes me feel good about his possible imput in roster evaluation. I hope he coaches as good a game as he talks because today was flat out beautiful.

    What he said about Iggy from amount of 3!s to amount of free throws was beautiful.

  97. Dave T says:

    Suede – Any person with any authority in any realm of Sixers brass pushing in Iguodala’s face that he needs to cut down on the threes and horrendous shot selection is music to all our collective ears haha.  Nice find man.

  98. Chuck says:

    Just watched the collins presser and I gotta say Dannie I was extremely impressed and believe in this dude. I was all for Avery Johnson the last two years but Doug Collins has made me a believer. He was exactly right about Iggy and shooting less threes and attacking the rim to drawl free throws… inspiring new confidence in Brand and Thaddeus which I believe he will be able to do.. and adjusting your style to your personal accordingly.

  99. Dave T says:

    Wow, just finished up listening to the whole Missanelli interview Suede mentioned…very inspiring stuff.   I think we’ve all forgotten what it is like to have a leader in the clubhouse, and Collins is one.
     
    Some of Doug Collins’ thoughts worthy of noting:
     
    -We lack toughness, teams need toughness to succeed in this league, and we will need to get some.  I’m assuming he means more than just Turner through the draft, and that we will be doing a few much needed tweaks and minor roster shake ups to bring some Reggie Evans like players back in our lockeroom.
     
    -Iguodala at the 2 and Thad at the 3 are both out of position; he feels Iguodala is a SF and Thad is a quick, undersized PF that can stretch the floor with shooting and get out and guard the perimeter on defense.
     
    -He will be talking to Iguodala a lot about the comparisons people have made between him and Pippen, and really push Iguodala to want to be one of the best defensive SF’s in the league.
     
    -Has heard great things about how A Mckie has worked with Jrue last year, and wanted to keep him on staff as a great vet. presence that have the player’s respect, and feels he’s a great symbol of the work ethic and toughness Philly is all about.
     
    -His 1st Pistons team lowered their opponents PPG by roughly 13 points.  That is a really impressive stat, even though FG% is a much more accurate statistic in general.
     
    -Talked about how important it is to have a great tandem of defensive wings at the 2 & 3 spots, and brought up MJ/Pippen and how nice it was for the Bulls to have lock down defenders that could neutralize opponents top scorers every night.  Reading between the lines, I’d imagine he’s gunning for the Sixers to take Turner to give us that same type of 2/3 athletic, defensive lineup with Turner/Iguodala.
     
    Compared Elton Brand at this stage in his career to the mid-90′s Joe Dumars…which I think is a great comparison, in talking about how Elton’s all star days might be behind him, but he could still be a very good and effective player.

  100. deepsixersuede says:

    DaveT., I have been pushing for a L.Will. for Maxiel trade if we draft Turner and Detroit goes big. He is young [27] . physical, and like L.Will. slightly overpayed [5 mill. per]. But he may push Spieghts and add the toughness Collins talked about.

  101. Zack says:

    suede, about Robin Lopez – what you expected or exceeding those expectations?  If you’re interested, here’s an SI write-up on his contributions in game 3 (thanks TrueHoop), I hope Speights can give us that one day, though I’m not holding my breath.  When Lopez was taking those crunch-time shots, I was thinking, “What the heck is he doing, who does he think he is, the Suns are dead…  OH MY GOODNESS the shot went in?”
     
    Also, thanks for the Missanelli link.

  102. deepsixersuede says:

    Zack, your welcome!!  I am still hoping our new coach can get Marreese to maximize his potential; A starting 5 of Sam/Marreese [18,8,1] ,Iggy,Turner and Jrue is pretty good if Spieghts can become an okay defender and passer.

    Lopez, to me, isn!t as good a rebounder as I thought but sure takes up space in the lane. He seems to fit next to Amare but I wonder if he ever gets to Sam!s level.

  103. Dave T says:

    You know who we need? We need us some Louis Amundson.  Honestly.  I have friggin loved watching this guy excel as a bench spark in Phoenix all year, and he’s proving his worth again in the playoffs.  A nice surprise to see how effective our former Sixers castaway has become.  Dude brings energy, hustle, intangibles, awesome defense and rebounding to every game, and never backs down or plays less then 100%.
     
    We could really, really use a 10-15 mpg bench player like that right now.  The last one we had was Reggie Evans, we need a new one in that Najera/Amundson/R Evans type of mold.

  104. Dave T says:

    …on the above note, James Singleton, FA from the Mavs/Wizards this past season, would make a great, cheap addition.  Wouldn’t cost more then $1-1.5 million, and is just a flat out banger that likes to mix it up inside, hustle is butt off, and has developed a nice jumper the last few years, and even extended his range to the 3 point line.

  105. Dannie says:

    Amundson, Najera, Evans = MEH

  106. Dannie says:

    Jurnee - I removed your comment because I am about to publish a post on that specifically.

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