So what is this big “plan” Ed Stefanski has to improve the Philadelphia 76ers going into the ’08 – ’09 season? These quotes will give you some insight into what he is thinking now that the NBA Draft has come and gone.
“We’re trying to build like Detroit, meaning we’re not looking to have that one superstar, but we want to have a lot of good players on the floor together. Detroit is doing it with a different style than us, because our style is to be athletic and push the ball. I know Mo Cheeks wants me to get him a shooter because he asked me the other day if I could get him one or two. I want to, but we’re really looking for people who are athletic and long and defensive-minded. That’s our first priority.” – New York Daily News
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“I have no problem going after anyone if it makes sense,” Stefanski said of pursuing restricted free agents.
“If we don’t get fortunate, or we don’t like what we see in the free agent market, then we could use the money in the way of a trade.”
“We have 11-plus million and if we get the guy we really would like as a big (man), I would think that person’s going to demand the whole $11 million. So we’re not really going to have the luxury of going out and getting a real, real good shooter in people’s eyes. But as I’ve said to many people, I believe that the players in our system are going to become better outside shooters.” – Delco Times
All that helps us (the fans) begin to make inferences into what moves might go down in the next month or so. It also tells me the style of play we saw the Sixers flourish in towards the end of last season won’t change much. Most importantly it solidifies the identity Stefanski and Cheeks are molding for this franchise. A young, fast, athletic and long team who will push the ball and lock in on defense.
I love that. It plays to the strengths of the core members of the Sixers and will be an exciting brand of basketball that should entice more fans to the Wachovia Center (along with more wins!). That means any new player brought to the team should in some way fit within that style of play. That still leaves two main holes that must be closed if the Sixers want to contend in the Eastern Conference: inside scoring to strengthen the half-court offense and perimeter shooting.
76ers’ 2008 Free Agent Wish List
Below I have compiled a list of free agents that fill needs for the Sixers that Stefanski/Cheeks might be interested in based on what they’ve said. It’s broken down by position rather than free agent status because I think that is a better way to look at the market based on our team’s needs. Key: (R) Restricted
Big Men
- Josh Smith (R) 2007 salary: $2,243,543 – “Athletic, long and defensive-minded” that Stefanski quote describes Josh Smith to a “T” and is the reason I have him ranked #1 in this category. Pete and I also believe this is the guy the Sixers are targeting and referring to when they say “get the guy we really would like as a big (man).” And it just so happens Josh Smith is visiting the 76ers this week according to John Smallwood. Smith would bolster our defense, fit perfectly with our up-tempo style and is young. That bodes well considering this team is still developing as a whole. His post game is still raw, but I have seen flashes of dominance on the block and facing up inside 15-feet. With Iguodala, Smith, Williams and Young, the Sixers would be in position to compete at a high level for a very, very long time. Because of that I think he should be their prime free agent target. Here is my question: Would Josh Smith really leave his hometown if he is offered equal money to stay?
- Elton Brand 2007 salary: $15,344,000 – Everyone wants Brand and have him as the Sixers #1 option. I just don’t think he is at this point. Sure it sounded good when he was on ESPN 950 talking about the possibility of coming to Philadelphia, but in reality I don’t see that as anything more than standard procedure for a guy looking to improve his situation. Signing Brand outright as an unrestricted free agent is a pipe dream because he won’t take a $5M pay cut to come here at this stage of his career. Especially when its not likely we would be a championship caliber team with only his addition. That means we would have to negotiate a sign-and-trade with the Clippers to get him. That becomes tricky because I don’t think the Clippers are looking to rebuild or dump salary. That pretty much eliminates the idea of trading say Reggie Evans’ $4.6M contract, the Utah first-round pick and absorbing the rest of his contract with our cap space. That leaves a sign-and-trade involving Andre Iguodala, and I just don’t think Stefanski has any plans to do that. Should he? I think you can argue both sides of the fence on that point. With the addition of Baron Davis I think it’s safe to say all Elton Brand to Philadelphia talk should stop.
- Emeka Okafor (R) 2007 salary: $5,427,307- I don’t think the Sixers have any chance of prying Okafor away from the Bobcats, but he fits the mold of what Stefanski and the Sixers are looking for. Athletic, long and defensive-minded. You pair him with Sammy and we have one of the best defensive and rebounding front-courts in the NBA. I also think the development of Okafor’s post game would benefit greatly being locked in at the power forward position and not having to play much center. But like I said, not chance of him leaving Charlotte. Larry Brown wouldn’t allow it.
Point Guards
- Chris Quinn (R) 2007 salary: $687,456 – Pete tipped me off to this Notre Dame product. He is a 6′ 2″ point guard who shot the three at a 40% clip last season. I think he is a life-long back-up but a good one to have for a team that lacks a true reserve point and guy who can shoot the three ball with some consistency. Oh, Quinn is first on the list because I think he is more attainable.
- Daniel Gibson (R) 2007 salary: $687,456 – I’d be surprised if Cleveland let him go because he protects LeBron from getting quadruple-teamed every possession. With that said they certainly can’t afford to overpay for him either. They if they want to compete for LeBron’s continued services in 2010 they had better be prepared to outbid nearly every major market franchise who is chomping at the bit for that huge free agent pool. I like Gibson because he is more of a shooter than point guard but has proven he can handle those duties on a team with a marquee scorer. As long as he isn’t asked to do too much playmaking I think he’s fine at the point. Like Quinn he serves two purposes for the Sixers as a back-up PG and needed outside shooter.
- Shaun Livingston 2007 salary: $4,404,629 – Heard a lot of campaigning for this guy once the Clippers indicated they wouldn’t pick up his qualifying offer making him an unrestricted free agent. Right before he got hurt Livingston was averaging 30mpg, 9ppg, 5apg while shooting 46% from the field and 70% from the line. He is only 22-years old and clearly had lots of potential. My concern: has the injury dramatically decreased the likelihood of him reaching that potential? To my knowledge he resumed basketball activities in the middle of June but still may not be cleared to participate in the Vegas Summer League. He also isn’t a very strong perimeter shooter. The price and whether he can play this season will determine if he is worth the risk.
Shooters/Shooting Guards
- Ben Gordon (R) 2007 salary: $4,881,669 – I was back and forth between Gordon and Ellis for first on this list, but I went with the perimeter shooting. Gordon is a career 41% 3pt shooter, and he takes 4.5 per game. There were only 6 other players in the league who shot over 4 threes per game and had a better shooting % than Gordon last season. I loved Gordon in college and got lukewarn on him in the NBA because outside of AI I am not a fan of undersized shooting guards. But the Sixers need what he brings to the table. He can come right in as our starting shooting guard, something he hasn’t been consistently in Chicago. And unless the Bulls get rid of Larry Hughes I am not sure he will be starting either if he is back with Chicago.
- Monta Ellis (R) 2007 salary: $770,610 – Might as well take him right off the list. With Baron Davis gone there is no way in hell Golden State lets Ellis leave. Especially when at best they probably have a 25% chance to getting Gilbert Arenas to leave Washington for the same amount of money. Ellis had a break out year last season and have a lot of Sixers fans on the bandwagon. He is a slashing combo guard that can get into the paint as will. When a 6’3″ player shoots 53% from the field that means he is getting easy shot after easy shot. The one weakness is that Ellis is a poor 3pt shooter and that doesn’t help the Sixers already stocked full of wing players who prefer to drive to the cup.
- Corey Maggette 2007 salary: $7,000,000 – This is actually a player the Sixers could probably get fairly easily, but should we? If Josh Smith doesn’t work out Stefanski could settle for a shooting guard. Maggette is easily a big step up from Willie Green, and the one thing he really does better than Andre Iguodala is get to the foul line and knock them down (9.7 attempts per game at an 81% clip). He shot a career best 38% from the 3pt line, but I honestly don’t think that was typical and wouldn’t expect him to shoot that well next year. If that $11M is burning a hole in the Sixers pocket to the point they want to spend it now, Maggette might be the best available player on the market.
- Eddie House 2007 salary: $1,500,000 – Need a shooter who is now playoff tested? Eddie House is your guy. He proved in the NBA Finals last season he isn’t afraid to take and make outside shots. The reason I like him is because he can also handle a bit of the point guard duties as well. With Boston placing priority on the highly coveted James Posey, House could be stolen from under their nose.
- J.R. Smith (R) 2007 salary: $2,134,067 – Athletic 3pt shooter who loves to get out on the break and can finish at the rim. Smith would fit perfectly on the Sixers with his style of play. And I would much prefer him over Willie Green as my starting shooting guard. What scares me is Smith can sometimes be a head case. Not sure we want to risk added that type of attitude to this franchise. From a talent standpoint he will likely get $5-6 million from someone.
- Delonte West (R) 2007 salary: $1,889,760 – Not a great 3pt shooter, but a decent shooter who can play the point as well. He started for Cleveland, but I think he is better served as a back-up player who can play two positions.
- Roger Mason 2007 salary: $770,610 – Very good shooter who probably won’t be resigned by Washington because they have to go all out to keep Arenas. With all the injuries Mason actually played 21mpg and shot 39.8% from three on 4.1 attempt per game. He is definitely worth $2-$3 million per year if you are looking for a perimeter shooting threat.
- Kareem Rush 2007 salary: $770,610 – Another decent 3pt shooter with nice size for the shooting guard position. If the Sixers are just looking for a shooter who isn’t a small forward, Rush would be a reasonable choice at a decent price.
- Juan Dixon 2007 salary: $2,550,000 – Journeyman who can shoot the three and score. If the Sixers were a contender, I would be higher on Dixon coming in as a veteran shooter to strengthen the bench for the playoffs.
- James Jones 2007 salary: $2,900,000 – Very good 3pt shooter but we have too many small forwards already. Are you willing to trade Carney to make room for him?
There is a pretty long list of free agents. Herein lies the problem. Teams literally started meeting with players at 12:01a.m., the first minute they were allowed by league rules. Players aren’t going to be waiting around for the Sixers to come calling. Since I believe Stefanski will be targeting Josh Smith, those negotiations probably won’t be quick and easy. During that time all these other players will either be scooped up by the highest bidder or resigned by their current teams who aren’t in the market for one of the few big time free agents. So I am worried that if we don’t land Smith and those negotiations drag on too long, there won’t be anyone of value left for the Sixers to bring in.
Then you have to factor in we still have to sign Iguodala and Williams this summer as well. If a team (Memphis/Golden State) comes in and offers Iguodala a contract larger than the cap hold allocated for him on the Sixers’ books and Stefanski matches before we sign our top FA, that $11M cap space will shrink taking us out of the market for any big time player.
I am excited to see what happens. But I am also staying grounded because the possibility of us NOT getting anyone of significant value seems pretty high to me. The restricted status and current teams’ strong desire to keep their players makes this free agent market tough to maneuver.
As usual I will leave you guys with a few questions/thoughts…
- If the Sixers don’t sign any of these big time free agents, how will you feel about the team going into next season?
- If the Sixers can’t get a big impact player, should they divvy out their cap to role players who would fill a need (shooter or back-up PG)?
- If free agency isn’t an option a trade may be. I will probably wait and see before I do a post on potential trades to acquire a marquee player.
- Should the Sixers just bank the money and wait until next summer or even the summer of 2010?
Josh Smith or bust. I’d be so stoked if they signed him. They wouldn’t be championship contenders right away, but the future would look real, real bright.
If this roster is the same next year, we don’t make the playoffs. Its that simple to me
Kevin that is fair, but are you OK with that outcome compared to spending money on a player(s) that if added still may not be enough to get us in the playoffs in a much improved Eastern Conference?
Actually, the money may not be as much if we resign Igoudala and Lou to numbers bigger than their respective cap holds, which is very likely. the 11.5 mil (I’d seen it as 12.5 on ESPN, weird) is based upon the cap holds, but once there is an actual signed contract it replaces the cap hold number. So if we don’t sign anyone but Lou and Igoudala, our number might shrink by 3-5 mil.
Long story short, Josh Smith is our best chance to make a big splash, otherwise it’s the likes of Wilcox, Frye, Villaneuva, etc.
Plan A: Get Josh Smith and a solid backup/potential future starting PG/shooter–Go for Gibson first, then West(chances are the Cavs won’t keep both of them), then House, then Quinn. Then re-sign Andre Miller.
Plan B: If we cannot land the big time PF this year, use our cap space to address our other needs. Split the money between a shooter and a replacement PG, with the greater importance placed on the PG. Whether through free agency or a sign and trade, we need to go hard after a PG and land our future starter. This will allow us to either trade Miller during the season for a PF, or to let him walk at the end of next year. If he walks, then we have his $10 million to use in next year’s free agent market to land our PF.
Small bit of news: Jamont Gordon is on our summer league roster – a lot of mock drafts had him being drafted in the 2nd round, but he went undrafted.
Josh Smith would come with his pro’s and con’s but he would give us the most athletic 3-4-5 in the league.
what would be really exciting about smith is not his offensive production as much as his blocks and steals. Dalembert and Smith would be a FORCE down low, and with iggy, williams, thad and smith stealing the ball and starting fast breaks – he’s a perfect fit for our system.
my real question is….if we sign Josh Smith, how on earth do we get Willie Green out of the starting lineup?
Start Iguodala at the 2 and Thad at the SF and just bench Green until you can trade (give) him away. I think I would like Green a whole lot more as a spark off the bench.
I don’t think Thad will be a star right away but if you were comfortable starting him last season (out of position) why go backwards this year and sit him behind Iguodala when you don’t have to. If Iguodala isn’t playing the 2 this season I gotta wonder what the Sixers long term plans are for him and Young.
The ideal starting lineup would be Miller, Iguodala, Thad, Smith and Dalembert with Green, Lou, Smith, Carney, Evans and Speights coming off the bench. That’s an 11 man rotation, so that won’t work. I say we get rid of Green for sure. And as much as I like Carney, Smith and Evans, one or two of them probably has to go. We also need to address the backup point guard situation since no one believes Lou is a point guard (I think he is). This is all assuming we get Smith. Let’s hope Ed doesn’t mess it up.
One more thing. I completely agree with Dannie. Why would Thad be benched? It would make no sense.
To answer your questions Dannie…
1) Sixers, with no free agents, are a top 5 seed in the east. I see no reason they won’t be a 45 win team which would do it.
They have played at over a 500 rate since they traded Iverson and adjusted for a month.
2) No. Keep the space. We have it for up to 2 more years easily. Noone for more than 3 million a year. CJ Miles comes to mind as a flier for our future SG for that price.
3) Trades… good luck. One I have been throwing around in my head is Willie Green and the utah pick for an expiring contract. I haven’t found much that works except maybe Eric Snow.
4) Yeah probably, as I said a month ago on these boards. They will have more cap space next season. Likely 2 million more or so. Boozer to Miami is a done deal if he wants to leave Utah and Miami wants him… so that sucks.
You can put me on record as being against the Josh Smith experiment. It would be a PR move imo that wouldn’t improve our team.
Don’t forget Mo likes Willie as a starter and did not give into Ed last year and start Iggy at the 2 even though Ed publicly pressured him to.
Don’t be shocked, if we got Smith, to see Thad on the bench due to his salary.
Joe lets compare the Sixers unimproved vs. the rest of the East and see if a 5th seed really makes sense.
We all agree the Sixers aren’t better than…
1. Boston
2. Detroit
3. Orlando
The 2nd tier is…
4. Cleveland (LeBron makes them better in my book)
5. Washington (when healthy I believe they are better)
On the Sixers Level…
6. Toronto (not anymore with the addition of O’Neal if he is healthy this team may even leap frog Washington and Cleveland)
Below the Sixers last season…
Miami (I love what they did in the draft and have 3 big time players and according to many one of the best point guards in the draft in Chalmers)
Atlanta (we assume Smith and Childress resigns they will have a full season with Bibby at the point and the growth and playoff experience of their young guys – I say they are on par with the Sixers)
Chicago (this team vastly underachieved, throw in the #1 pick who is a dynamic PG with leadership qualities this team now becomes a threat for a playoff berth)
Joe I think you are being overzealous on a 5th seed by only focusing on the Sixers roster and not considering how much the rest of the conference improved. Which it did. Unimproved the Sixers will be the same team with the same weaknesses and holes. While teams like Miami and Toronto unquestionably got better.
For a PR move alone, they have to sign a FA. If they use this space to split up between role players, the momentum they gained last season with the fans will die. They had a real hard time drawing fans last year, and next year would be the same. If they make no moves, there is NO way they are the 5th best team in the East. They might need Josh Smith just to be the 5th seed.
If MO starts Willie over a lineup with Thad, then get ready for the fire MO chants to start. That would be a horrible idea. I like MO, but I may even join in those chants.
Count me in as one of the few that thinks Lou can develop into a PG. Maybe not a starting PG, but definetly a PG. I saw a lot of development in his game this season, and expect more next season.
I agree with Dannie. A playoff spot isn’t guarnteed this season even if Josh Smith is signed, but the point is, the potential for them to develop into a championship contender is so much more with Smith than Brand or with the current Sixers.
I think the Josh Smith signing gets them to the playoffs. How high a seed they wind up being depends on how well, Igoudala works out at the 2.
By the way, everyone know that he absolutely hates being called Iggy right?
Guys,
I like the ideas. But if iguodala is our starting Sg and plays his minutes at that position next year, then we are not a top team. The bottom line is, is that he is a Sf. He is not a shooter. In my opinion, there is a problem if Iggy is our Sg next year. I think there is a good chance we sign and trade him.
Ah somebody that agrees with me….
Before I say anything. The question was… what seed? That implies regular season success. The Sixers are a healthy young team. Injuries won’t be a factor with them most likely. Injuries will be a factor for many teams.
I think the West is better than last year and the East is worse. When I look at the trades/free agent/rookie stuff, I see no reason why the East will be better than last year. One thing I don’t understand is how the Raptors and Pacers swapped personnel and somehow both teams are better, even though neither team had significant needs at those spots. Huh?
I look at the amount of wins this team is capable of and I think 50 is in sight as is. I am basing this off the notion that they are as good as they have played for the past 110 games or so and will improve somewhat since they are a team based on youth. My prediction is 45 wins will be enough for the 5 seed and maybe 4 seed(like it was last year) and the Sixers will get that done.
Do you guys already forget that the Sixers should have won more games than they did last year if not for stumbling into the playoffs and playing flat the last 10 games…
@Dave T.
Cleveland – We easily were as good as them last year. They aren’t going to improve any from last year. Boobie is just about their only player still progressing. We will just because of Thad’s definite progression, along with more depth and competition at the PF position.
Washington – they are the same thing every year. A 43-45 win team. This year will be no different. The Sixers are just as good as them. They are the same team with or without Gilbert. OT – Them signing him to a max deal is just hilarious to me. Not a top 40 NBA player.
Toronto – Well, Oniel will likely get hurt. They have depth issues as well. I would say they are on par with the Sixers. They lack depth.
Atlanta – not a threat. They will lose one of the Joshes I am sure. If they don’t, perhaps they get a 500 record if lucky.
Miami – I like what they did. I think this team could sneak into the top 4-5 seeds.
Chicago – they have to deal with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden still. I can’t imagine this team being very good. They still lack a real post scorer. Rose is a downgrade(in his rookie year) from Hinrich. They are set up to be the same team as last year. They won 33 games. I don’t see why one would predict 10+ more games won.
How many wins do you think the Sixers are going to get to miss the playoffs? 35? They did win 40 games last year and should be improved…
@Kevin
I am sorry, but the Sixers in 06-07 narrowly missed the playoffs closing the season playing terrific ball winning 35 games.
Last year, they stumbled out of the gate terribly, but still had control of their own destiny to the #5 seed with just like 5 games left.(had a real shot at 4 with about 10 left as well, but then lost twice to Cleveland at end)
I don’t get how they are all of a sudden going to win less games next year.
Joe, I think your last comment was meant to be directed at Dannie, he was the one giving the mini blurbs about other East teams.
I have always been more in the camp that if Iggy is our SG and Thad our SF…huge question marks about if that can work given the lack of outside shooting that lineup has. Often times the SG and SF can be interchangeable…IF the two players bring different skill sets to the table. The ideal example would be Ray Allen at SG (shooter, heady play, comes off screens well) and Paul Pierce at SF (slasher, scores of penetration, FT’s, can shoot the 3 pretty well).
In general I don’t think it’s a great idea to have two athletic slashing wings that can’t shoot the 3 regularly…for a non NBA team and more minor example, anyone that is an Ohio St. Buckeyes fan can attest to what can happen when you have two very talented and athletic SF’s (David Lighty and Evan Turner) trying to co-exist when neither can shoot from the outside.
…UNLESS…you decide to go the route of signing a THIRD versatile athletic slashing wing type. Once that happens, positions don’t matter. People are harping on the position thing waaaaay too much IF we have Josh Smith. Iguodala can play the 2 & 3, Thad the 3 & 4, and Josh the 2, 3 and 4. This is one of the very rare cases where throwing the three 6’7 – 6’9 talents on the floor and letting them go wild would absolutely work. The only ingredient you need to make three athletics wings work is a great pass first PG, and we have that luxury right now in Andre Miller.
The other thing I agree with that someone else mentioned, which it seems people are forgetting, are the intangibles Josh Smith brings when he’s not scoring. Do people realize we could quite possibly have a top 3 defensive team in the NBA? Josh Smith and Iguodala, when they try hard on D, are total monsters both as individual and team defenders. Thad has shown to have a great work ethic and give great effort on the defensive end…Sammy D can protect the rim, and Andre Miller is a nice and solid defender at the PG.
It is ridiculously rare to have an entire starting 5 unit who are ALL good defenders and take pride in doing so. We’d also have Reggie Evans for toughness off the bench, some backup D and energy in Carney, and for all the knocks on Willie, I think he’d be great off the bench and also plays great defense. We could play 90 feet of hell defense and force an ungodly amount of turnovers, which would bolster our offensive “score before their defense is set” philosophy.
One great pass first PG, three athletic, defensive minded, versatile 6’7 – 6’9 guys at the 2/3/4, and a defense/rebounding guy at center? And everyone except Andre M young and on the up? And a hugely talented young PF prospect in the mix now? I love it.
@ Joe
-Did you really just say the with the Sixers “injuries won’t be a factor….but will be for other teams”….??? How can you make that assumption regardless of how “young” the Sixers are? Injuries happen to ALL teams. Some are luckier then others, but they are a FACT of sports. The Sixers aren’t any less likely to have injuries then the next team…Injuries happen….period.
And did you really say that Gilbert Arenas is NOT even a top-40 NBA player…wow!!! I agree that they are the same team every year, but what a statement that Arenas is NOT a top-40 player? Did you really mean to say 40?
But, across the board, we don’t know how these teams will pan out. He based everything you said on way too many assumptions/hypotheticals….(1) You can’t assume Toronto won’t be better then the Sixers because you have a feeling Jermaine O’Neal is gonna get hurt again. At this moment, he is 100%. No indiction he will get hurt (2) And at this point, they have stated that they will keep both Joshes–and they can.
@jprIII
The Sixers have probably the best track record going for their starters in the NBA. I am saying that without researching it because Sammy is the only player I can think of who has missed any real time. Last year they were the best for sure. Willie missed like 5 games.(the sixers ironically won almost all of them if I remember correctly)
Reason to assume JO gets hurt… he always does. The odds are against him. Even if he doesn’t, they still aren’t deep enough for an 82 game season and playoffs.
Gilbert is the 3rd best player on his team jprII. Caron is miles better. It really isn’t close. Offensively Caron is better and defensively it isn’t close even though Caron is average at best.
Out of curiosity… where do you rank Gilbert?
I will take back Caron being better offensively. They are on par with one another, although Caron was better in 06-07 and 07-08(obviously here)
Perhaps a “100% Gil” is better than Caron offensively.
Joe,
I live in DC and watch a good 40 Wizards games a year. Arenas has many faults…namely: total lack of defensive effort, poor shot selection, and his goofy off the court vibe can sometimes get people discussing the wrong things too much. He’s been injured. People, often rightly, point the finger at him for being the reason the Wizards haven’t come together and gelled.
But despite the fact that Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison have been model professionals the last three years in DC…to disregard Arenas’ talent…especially when healthy, and when his teammates are healthy…is just ridiculous. Arenas at full force is probably a top 7 NBA talent, and he honestly has the ability to become a top 5.
Why is he not, then? Because he is going through what many great athletes go through and have hit a stumbling block on the way to being truly elite: they need to look around them, and realize it’s time to shoulder responsibility, be the perfect teammate, play unselfishly, and he’ll get his if he makes that decision.
Kobe, T-Mac, Iverson, Arenas, VC, Webber, Shaq, Baron Davis…these are all dominant scorers that have top 5 capability as far as NBA talent. I’m excluding Chris Paul, Dwayne Wade and Jason Kidd because they always seemed to be born with the perfect genes of selflessness in play, and knowing when to take over vs. deferring.
But the above guys have always had a choice to make:
1. Always improving their game, tweaking to it, adding to it during the offseason
2. Developing an impeccable work ethic
3. Sacrificing their game for the betterment of the team
4. Accepting the responsibility of being “the man” and a role model on and off the court for others, a true leader.
5. Always playing with 110% effort and intensity, developing mental toughness
Kobe always had the first 2 and 5…but only in his 11th year has he finally learned to incorporate 3 & 4. T-Mac started with none, slowly developed 2 & 4…eventually learned to become a great selfless teammate more concerned with winning then stats…his problem was that he never changed and evolved his game enough, and would take nights off, wasn’t mentally strong.
Baron has 2, 4 and 5, but never 1 and 3, and was always derailed by injuries, and still hasn’t learned shot selection. Vince was never comfortable being the man and bagged in his whole career, the antithesis of a leader. C-Webb always had the attitude problems, off court shinnanigans, and didn’t like taking over games and putting a team on his back. Shaq never had the work ethic or drive. Iverson…well, everyone on the planet is very 50/50 about his “improving the game” and sacrificing the game”…so no use starting that debate.
But Arenas is RIGHT there, on the cusp. THIS YEAR is his biggest year, he is entering it healthy, his teammates are healthy, and he has the chance to pull what Kobe did the past year and a half and really hitting all 5 points to perfection. If Arenas chooses to do that…make sacrifices, become a better leader, be the true teammate in every sense of the word…he is an automatic 1st or 2nd team All NBA for a decade. No denying it.
People don’t understand how hard this guys works in the offseason. All he does is basketball…lives and breathes it, and works on his game. He literally has no life…he just spends hours in the gym and with trainers. I’d rank him top 5 in the NBA for how he works on his game in the offseason…unfortunately it’s mis conveyed because his quirky personality has a tendency to make the media look away from the positive.
Doesn’t mean he will…but he’s that capable. People also forget the Wizards are top 4 most teams for being injury struck. Their “3″, the one time they had a full season together (three years ago) all healthy, were on pace for 50+ wins before two went down…and that was their first year before real chemistry developed. While their frontcourt is about as weak as ours…they could be a huge threat if they are healthy, I wouldn’t downplay these guys if they click offensively by sharing the ball, and if they buy into defense. Dangerous team.
@ joe–
Do I believe that Arenas is worth $127MM? No! Absolutely not! Does he have defensive deficiencies? Yes. Is he good for more than a few bad shots a game? Yes! But, not a top-40 player….? Are you kidding me? His ability to score alone is reason to have him at minimum a top-20 player. Did you forget his 29/ppg the last two full healthy seasons he played? Not to mention his uncanny ability to hit clutch shots, which probably rival only Kobe in the league. Now, would a Caron Butler or maybe even Antawn Jamision be more desirable than Arenas at the point they fill a particular need for a particular team. Yes! Maybe you should define “top”, but I can’t see how Gilbert is not top-40 in the league and not even a bigger asset than Antawn Jamison on that Wizards team, in your opinion.
I really like the idea of going after J.R Smith. He is a perfect fit for this team as he is athletic and can hit the 3 very effectivly. I also think attitude questions with him are alittle overstated
Well, it sounds like we put it all out there for Josh Smith yesterday. The Mayor, the jersey, , the Jumbotron, the city tour, the lunch, the dinner, and, most certainly, the offer. Let’s hope it was enough to seal the deal.
Joe – we can just agree to disagree it is your “opinion” that the Sixers will magically be 5+ games better having not improved the team by adding an impact player(s).
Taking your statement of “110 games or so” (regular season) the Sixers were 57-53 or a 51.8% winning percentage. That equates to a 42-40 regular season record over 82 games. That two game increase sounds reasonable to me if I didn’t think the Eastern Conference will be better.
You can believe what you want about Cleveland but LeBron makes that team better which in reality is pretty hard to deny just look at the records the last 3 seasons.
Washington has 3 all-star caliber players two of which missed 69 and 24 games respectively. Get them all on the court for 75 games and that team is better.
I am not exactly sure what you’re talking about here “One thing I don’t understand is how the Raptors and Pacers swapped personnel and somehow both teams are better, even though neither team had significant needs at those spots. Huh?”
When I read that “Huh” was exactly what I thought because it didn’t make much sense. The Raptors upgraded the center position while losing a player that was extremely expendable because of Jose Calderon – that sounds like a winning deal for Toronto. The Pacer will be very young and impossible to predict how they will play. So I didn’t even mention them amongst teams the Sixers have to worry about. But the Raptors who were 1-game better than the Sixers last season improved their team while in this hypothetical debate the Sixers only added Speights. Oh and the Raptors did beat the Sixers 3 out of 4 times last season as well.
I am a homer, but I try to be realistic as well. I just think you’re being too much of a naive homer if you think this club is a 50-win caliber team unimproved. Show me where the 5-10 additional wins are coming from. They will still have a hard time winning games out West especially with what the Clippers and Portland have done this off-season. Games last season that might be considered easy in the East (Miami, Milwaukee to name a couple) will be if anything a little tougher to run through.
The Sixers stumbled into the playoffs because they are an inconsistent team with pretty good (some ppl would even debate that), not great talent. I am hoping they will be more consistent next season (they don’t lose as many early and they don’t win as many late) but even so it will still average out to 40-43 wins. And I don’t think that will be good enough for a 5th seed in the East next season.
Joe -
Don’t let Dannie get you down. He’s just mad cause I whooped him in Tiger Woods on the Wii yesterday.
There is plenty of room for unabashed homers in the world of sports. I prefer them to the people who are the opposite (i.e. those who hate Donovan McNabb or Andy Reid)
If you had said that the Rays would be atop the MLB right now in the pre-season, I’m pretty sure you would have gotten piled on as well.
All that being said, the Sixers had better sign or trade for somebody sweet.
Pete did beat me by like 7 strokes. Though we only got through 11 holes and I was ready to make my run! I am still very bitter.
Joe I apologize in advance if my response came off too harsh (blame it on Pete), I try to be as diplomatic as possible as always.
I will say one thing Joe, having your devil’s advocate comments have definitely picked up the number of debate and responses on the blog – thanks!
Pete, Dannie, take a look at the “AT & T Ringtones” videos from sixers.com of Jason Smith and Sammy D – is that what you guys are like when you hang out?
http://www.nba.com/sixers/multimedia/sixers_videos.html
I’d probably add the Bucks to the list of teams in contention for a playoff spot. This is another team that’s really been bitten by the injury bug two years straight that is finally healthy. That RJ trade also really improved the team (cleared up log jams, got rid B Simmons horrible contract, they get better defensively, get a legit 2nd or 3rd scoring option). It’ll be interesting to see how their 1/2/3/ of Mo Williams, Michael Redd and RJ do together.
Andrew Bogut has become a real solid center and is still young and improving his game…Villanueva (if not traded) will probably look to have a fresh start after finishing last year strong (15 pts and 8 rbds towards the end) without Yi taking so much time from him. Desmond Mason is a nice defensive energy piece, they’ve now got Joe Alexander to groom, and they’ll see if Ramon Session can keep up his monster backup PG play from the end of last year. Interesting team to keep our eyes on.
@Daniel: I don’t want ANY part of J.R. Smith. I don’t think his attitude problems are exaggerated at all, this is a guy that in one year has been suspended, benched or told to not come to practice THREE TIMES…and enforced by the team, and not the NBA. I don’t care what JR Smith’s talent level is, he has shown himself to be nothing but a me-first selfish ballhog that has no bball IQ whatsoever, just jacks up wild shots that sometimes go in when he’s hot, and to be a flasher dunker. I don’t want him near our team.
@Dave T.
First off, this is how good you are, not how talented you are. I feel this is a distinction that must be made. It is about what you do, nothing else as far as I am concerned.(for developed players) I don’t care about how “talented” someone is. That is all completely subjective. The best answer I could come up with is the lottery picks from the past 10 years. Those were labeled the “most talented.”
Second off, I like Gilbert as a person. I think he may be clinically insane, but I like him. I buy him breathing basketball. He was a 2nd round pick, so he has to be a hard worker right? People always rave about Reggie Miller’s work ethic. I wouldn’t be shocked if Arenas puts up more jumpers yearly than Reggie did in his prime. I give props to Arenas for loving the game. I just wish he was more of a student of the game for his sake.
Can you please list which of the following are below Arenas… Lebron, Kobe, Iverson, Melo, Amare, Kevin Martin, Dirk, Redd, Bosh, Baron, Paul, Nash, Howard, Duncan, Monta, Manu, Pierce, Garnett, Deron, Brandon Roy, Kidd, Chuancey.
If someone wants to think Gilbert is a top 25 player, I will leave them be and agree to disagree, but people seem to be transfixed on the idea that he is top 15, when it isn’t the case.
@Dannie
The Raptors got solid production from Rasho at the Center spot. Jermaine isn’t likely to blow away this production since he hasn’t proven himself to be able to stay healthy or play well over the past however many years. Even if JO magically stays healthy, he has looked like a shell of himself in recent years.
Washington has 3 “stars” yet they never win 50 games. Call it health. Call it whatever. They haven’t shown they are likely to win more that 45 games.
If we ignore health, sure teams will have 10 more wins next year, but some players are healthy players(Andre Miller) and some players are unhealthy players.(Grant Hill) It is what it is. Ignoring injury history and players recovering from injury is not something I will do.
I’m not a homer. I don’t pick Philly teams to win championships because they aren’t good enough.(Eagles 1 time, Tampa Bay) Fuck Blaine Bishop. I swear I will not forgive Andy Reid for playing him with a pulled hamstring while a GREAT rook Michael Lewis was sitting on the bench. Remember when Michael Lewis was GREAT? (end rant) I don’t pick Philly teams to win more games than they do normally. I do however have extreme confidence in the Eagles since I think the team does a terrific job being a top 5 NFL talent evaluating team.
I picked the Sixers to win 45 games before Joe Smith left. I think I predicted them for 38 or something afterwards. Then Thaddeus happened…(we were a 42 win team despite our record) Willie deserves credit for his improvements as well going from terrible to bad.
I want to predict 48-49 wins for next year, but the East is too bad to have 4-5 teams with that many wins IMO, so I am bumping them down to a 45 win teamish.
When I say the East will be worse, I mean the 08 East will be worse relative to the 08 West than the 07 East was relative to the 07 West. I think next year’s West will be the best West since 00-01 when it was out of this world good. I could give reasons for my thinking of this, but they would be really long and detailed… Basically I haven’t seen a talent shift to the East. Especially since I don’t have Rose as an impact rookie and do have Oden being one more so than Beasley.
I think Speights will be ready to contribute as well this year, contrary to the “experts” who I think are basing this on nothing credible. He was a college player on par with Noah and Horford as sophomores and has “more upside”? Sounds like the Sixers have a good shot at having the steal of the draft 2 years running.
I am thinking about doing a statistical analysis of the team since David Berri did one before this year and it was pretty accurate.
@Dave T.
You just wrote up the Bucks preseason evaluation for the past 2 years. They don’t stay healthy and now they have added another player who has had some injury issues and is past his prime as well.
The Bucks are always, on paper, a decent team. They never do anything though. Why this year? Because they got a guy who can score and has forgotten how to do anything else in Jefferson? They needed to blow things up aagin until they get it right, but they didn’t and now they will face the consequences of being a 30 win team again.
And I’m not playing devil’s advocate. I really don’t see why you guys would predict anything less than a 40 win season, which would be good for the 7 seed this year most likely.
Either way, this is a GOOD YEAR to be a Sixers fan because they will be a team you can watch grow and learn like you did last year. It will be good to see Thaddeus’ game expand and see Miller leading the guys out there night in and night out. This is a good young team that kills itself out there. With another year of experience, I don’t see how they could fall short of last years’ mark.
@Joe – not exactly sure what you consider “decent production” but in my book 5 boards and 8 ppg isn’t that good from a player that started half the games he played in. If you don’t think Jermaine O’Neal healthy wouldn’t double those numbers I am not sure what NBA you watch. He is a 20-10 big man. I am with you regarding his health as of late, but for all we know he is healthy going into the season and Toronto are considerably better.
This is a typical homer thought “Washington has 3 “stars” yet they never win 50 games. Call it health. Call it whatever. They haven’t shown they are likely to win more that 45 games.” — Then not consider that the Sixers as currently assembled haven’t won more than 40 games, yet “magically” they are a 45+ win team. Being a homer isn’t just unrealistically suggesting your team will win championships. It is also presenting arguments for the home team and ignoring the fact that many of the same arguments hold true for the home team, like the one presented above.
Sixers record vs. some East Teams…
Miami – 3-0
Toronto – 1-3
Indiana – 1-3
Milwaukee – 3-1
Washington – 2-2
Cleveland – 1-2
Atlanta – 1-3
Chicago – 3-1
Charlotte – 2-1
That is 17-16 vs. middle of the pack near bottom of the East last season. I think Miami is better, Toronto is better, Milwaukee is a little better, Chicago should be better depending on how they play it (by the way Paxson said Rose will be brought along slowly so if they keep Hinrich and play Rose as back-up PG until he proves otherwise that makes this team better), Washington with all three guys playing will win more games.
Those are teams you consider the Sixers, as currently assembled, are either clearly better than or on par. And a few of them have improved while the Sixers haven’t closed up any of the holes they had (inside scoring and perimeter shooting).
Comparing the East to the West in context of how many games the Sixers will win next season has no relevance.
Lets say you are right and West is much better than the East. The West is 10 hypothetical points better in 08-09 vs. last season. The East will be 5 points better in 08-09 vs. last season. Although the West is better it still means stiffer competition from both leagues for the Sixers to navigate (unimproved) vs. the 2007 season. And I just don’t see how an unimproved team wins more games in a league that got stronger overall.
Joe do you read the comments? Who predicted less wins? In fact I am pretty sure I said 42 wins (thats more) is reasonable with the qualifier that if the East is better (6 top 10 draft picks and Indiana got two top 17 draft picks) like I think it will be, achieving that will be tough without adding a player to build on what they did in the second half of the season last year.
My point again is many your arguments for why an unimproved Sixers team will win more games (“with another year of experience”) holds true for other teams (like Atlanta) and you refuse to acknowledge that. Many of your points for why other teams won’t win as many games (“haven’t proved they can win more than xx number of games”) hold true for the Sixers but you refuse to acknowledge that as well.
@Joe about Milwaukee and R Jefferson:
Well, actually, no, I wouldn’t have said the same thing about the Bucks the last two-three years. The last two years Andrew Bogut was still in his NBA infancy phase just learning the game, Mo Williams was just starting to come into his own, and the one real all star level option they had was Michael Redd.
They had a hard working SF combo in Ruben Patterson and Bobby Simmons…basically equivalent to our PF combo last year…aka: squadoosh. Their PF combo was a total logjam and was stunting the growth of both Yi and Villanueva. They also had PG issues with a logjam in that Ford and Mo Williams were both capable starters and stealing minutes from each other. They had no real wing talent in the works to groom for the future.
Now Mo Williams is a reliable 17 pt and 6 ast type player, Bogut is a reliable 13 pt 9 rbd, good passing center type guy…Michael Redd has improved his game every year (and confidence, especially playing with the U.S. team), and they just got (finally) a second legit all star type talent in Richard Jefferson. They have a great rookie in Joe Alexander, and a great bench guy in Desmond Mason. So…the last three years I’d say “on paper” they looked like a 30-35 win team. Now I’d say they have entered 38-44 win range, and are on the up and up. Not to mention they just got Mr. Drill Sergeant Skiles to coach them, far superior then Larry Krystkowiak who had no head coaching experience.
And why are you knocking Richard Jefferson, are you serious? He’s another Jamison type…not a mega-star obviously, but is a consummate team guy, and very versatile in his game. “Forgot to do everything but score” you said…for real? Richard Jefferson is a great defender, smart player, good passer, great at attacking the rim, has REALLY improved his midrange game and handle. There’s also the fact that every time Kidd or VC has gone down and RJ is healthy, he has averaged about 22 – 24 ppg, 7 boards and 4 assists. Like many of the Kansas Jayhawks guys in college, his stats are down because he willingly accepts a third fiddle role for the betterment of the team.
Sorry to get so off topic from Philly-Sixers stuff guys.
@Dannie
I will try to address all of your “points” since I apparently haven’t been. My apologies.
This is where the teams will finish this year, not how good they rank against each other when healthy…
How weren’t Rosho’s numbers “decent production”? Those numbers playing alongside Bosh, projected to 36 per, are comparable to Sammy D’s who was, according to most Sixers fans at least, provided more than “decent production.” He has a good jump shot spreading the court as well. This is a center we are talking about, not a SG or PF taking tons of shots.
Would Jermaine double his numbers? Maybe, but he wouldn’t come close to being as efficient probably, so it is a trade off here and not one that amounts to a major upgrade imo. I mean, adding players who put up PPG totals doesn’t imply winning… we all know this fact right? Efficiency is more important. That is why MJ was the best. He stayed efficient. Jermaine had 2 20-10 years and they were like 4 years ago. I can’t see him returning to that form. Jermaine may be healthy, but when a guy has been hurt 4 years running… I don’t think you view him in a similar manner as Andre Miller who has never missed time due to injury.
The Sixers were a 42 win team last year according to efficiency differentials which is probably a better measure than their record last year. If you want a simple argument for why 48 wins is more than possible, then I will just go with Thaddeus. You know this team transformed when he played. I know this. Everyone knows this. The Numbers probably support this team being on close to a 50 win pace when he saw some decent PT. They went on a run the day he got his first start. The kid is special. If you want me to post numbers, I will but you already know that Miller is the key to the ignition and Thaddeus was overdrive or some shit like that.
I suppose you are referring to your Calderon upgrade over Ford comment. I will try to keep this short. Do you like the Raptors 9 man rotation? Who are their back up guards? What if JO does go down for say 40 games… is Bargiani stepping in. Bargiani was the worst player in the NBA last year, far worse than Willie even somehow.
The Sixers’ record vs. the middle of the pack east teams… I suppose you are trying to say that the Sixers will lose more of these games causing them to possibly have a worse record… I don’t really buy it. I think they underachieved vs. some of these teams, especially Indiana.
I’m not sure these teams improved. Sorry. I say why in my other posts for the most part. Washington isn’t much better with all 3. They likely won’t have all 3 anyway, so the argument is pointless. I feel like I am arguing with McNabb fans here.(I love McNabb as well but am a realist) These players get hurt. Thats what they do. Some players don’t get hurt. Some players do. Thats just how it is. The Wizards will lose someone to injury and will probably lose Roger Mason as well because of Arenas.
The Sixers have Carney. The last couple months he showed some signs of gaining confidence. He may help out in this department. Thaddeus has some range as well. He could start showing it off a little more.
I think this is the biggest difference… I think the Sixers will be improved more than these teams that made stupid moves to get oft-injured players and locking up old/oft-injured players long term. The Sixers are young and pretty talented and have a pure point guard. So the competition is “stiffer” but the Sixers are better as well. They will hold their own against good teams and beat teams they ought to.
Who predicted less wins? People who said they might not make the playoffs. If you think 42 wins is playoff worthy in the east, you are out of your mind, unless you think the Celtics reign of terror over the East is done.
6 of the top 12. You forgot Oden and Rudy who are both up there. The West also gets the beast in Oden.(Do people already forget the comparisons this guy got?) (Insert he is injury-prone comment here)
I, once again, think the team is improved. I think they got a top 10 impact rookie from this class in Speights. I have a crazy notion that productive, athletic college players from good conferences have an easier time adjusting to the NBA. They have a real talent in Thaddeus. They have a legit point guard to help these guys.
Atlanta has no bench and can’t fiscally keep both Joshes. If you want me to assume they have the same players as last year without any additions, I will say the Sixers will be better, since they were better last year and have a better pure point.
@Dave T.
Thaddeus at the PF position was not squadoosh. Their PF wasn’t a logjam either. Yi just got hurt forcing them to play Charlie V, another injury riddled player, again.
I guess Bogut has progressed, but I don’t see it. he is a good center. Average.
Redd hasn’t really progressed. He has been good since he was the back up for Ray Allen. He is a very good offensive player and always has been. I don’t think he is any different than he was 3 years ago except maybe a bit smarter and a bit slower.
Before, they were trying to get rid of Ford. Now they are trying to get rid of Mo Williams or will be in a year. They love Ramon Sessions down there. They still have that logjam.
So they looked like a 30-35 win team but fell short of those expectations. Now they look like a 40 win team or whatever. They will just fall short again. That is what they do. Joe Alexander was a work out wonder as well so watch out, he could bust. I don’t think he will since he improved SO MUCH in his last year of college.
Jefferson’s production has declined. His play has turned to “score, score, score” and ignoring hustle plays and other factors.
This is an in depth look at the fact that Richard has forgotten how to do things besides score.
I have always liked Jefferson. I think he has been underrated in his career personally, but his last 2 years have been average. He just scores a lot and somewhat inefficiently NOW. Anyone can do that…
Maybe he will go back to his good self over there. Why did they bring in 3 SFs on draft day? Anyone know?
@Joe
Gotta argue the Michael Redd point. Numbers wise, every year of his career he improved statistically (except last year, when his teammates started scoring and he didn’t need to score as much). More importantly, he’s a classic guy where the numbers really don’t show much. In watching him, you can see every aspect of his game has evolved pretty dramatically since he left OSU and was Ray’s backup, and from his first few years as the Bucks primary guy.
He handles the ball more, and often sets up the offense when Mo is not in the game. His ability at penetrating, as well as finishing, in the painted area is far superior. He’s really learned the nuanced Rip Hamilton/Reggie Miller type game well, and has mastered the art of moving without the ball and coming off screens. He is a more efficient player, doesn’t need the ball in his hands as much, and his bball IQ has gone up…he has a far better sense of the court as a whole and when to defer to teammates and take over himself.
I also think one of the best things that can happen to a player is to be forced to be “the man” on a bad team when they are not a #1 option…forcing them to awkwardly learn that role, but fostering eventual confidence…and then finally having that team get some talent, where he can be a quasi #1 option or sometimes #2, where sometimes others can take over for him. Michael Redd and our own Iguodala were in those situations, and in the end it will have both far better players with better mental strength in true crunch time situations.
I do agree with you about Mareese Speights. If he learns to work hard, we definitely got the second 1st round steal of the draft two years running. Although I’m not exactly on the same “Thad is a lock to be a 5 time future all star!” track that others seem to be on. Nice talents, and I enjoy watching them grow and improve.
I’m loving this back and forth banter and I had to chime in. I feel the Sixers could be five wins better unchanged based on the fact that the players now understand their roles and style of play a whole lot more now than they did last season.
All of the teams that Dannie mentioned should have a feeling out period at the start of the season that an unchanged Sixers team should not have. Getting out to a good start could be worth a few games in the standing all by it self.
Out of our 42 losses (and several of our wins) we had long periods of missed shots and missed opportunities that should be corrected based simply on chemistry. Miller and Iggy will know the other guys so much better at the start of the season, Thad should start from day one with (hopefully) a more aggressive attitude and feel for the game. That Detroit series was the best thing that could have happened to this young team, now they know what team defense looks like and feels like, what it does to team moral and how it can crush a players confidence (Iggy). That should be worth a few games as well.
I know other teams added “talent” but how many became better “teams”?
Dannie, losing 6&7 in match play is like a 30 point loss in basketball, way to go Pete.
@Dave T.
I think Redd’s best years were 02-03 and 06-07. He has changed as a player no longer being just a shooter, but I am not sure he is any better after it is all said and done. He can do more things now, but he doesn’t do them as efficiently as he shoots. I think he was great offensively in 02-03 and is still great offensively. Now he can do a bit more offensively, but he doesn’t do those things as efficiently as just shooting the ball, causing a wash.
@dre
good points. I really hope Thaddeus gets more aggressive as well. The biggest weakness in his game right now is that the kid never gets to the line for the easy points. Then again you normally need plays run for you to get to the line… but Leon Powe doesn’t think so based on the fact that he attempts as many FTs as Allen Iverson per minute lol.
Front-Load an aggressive contract offer to Rick Sund, Atlanta GM, put Atlanta in a position that they do not want to be in. Force Atlanta to confront Stefanski in a sign and trade for Josh Smith. The Sixers then should trade Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert to Atlanta for Josh Smith and Atlanta’s first round pick in 2009. Secondly, trade Andre Miller and Reggie Evans to Golden State for Adrin Biedrins and Golden State’s first round pick in 2010. with the remaining cap money available sign Nenad Kristic and Corey Maggette
@Chance
You, sir, are an idiot.