First, let me get all things Yankees’ related out of the way…
- They won this series fair and square. They were the better team, and this was the first time in the last 2 years, despite what experts might have thought, that we played a team better than us.
- Certainly people will bring up the Yankees “unfair” payroll advantages. Take away the $70 million separating them from the rest of the pack and you take away 4 players from this group of FA (Damon, Sabathia, Texieira, Matsui, Burnett). But, take your issues up with Major League Baseball, not the Yanks, who are playing by the rules.
- One piece of solace I take away from losing to my most hated team in professional sports is that unless a Yankee fan is under the age of 18, this championship won’t bring them even close to the elation we felt last year. I think that this is clear in the fact that the vast majority of Phillies’ fans are content the season we had, while a good amount of Yankees’ fans would have found losing in the World Series unacceptable. This team to us is one we’ll remember the rest of our lives. For Yankees’ fans, it’ll just blend in with the rest.
- The other positive piece I take away is that no Yankee fan can ever again tell me their fans our better than ours. The atmosphere at their games was pathetic. This is not just me talking. Writers, players and fans all said the same thing.
- I wouldn’t trade our 25 for their 25 in a million years. Not because we are better, but because I love our guys. I love that our core is home grown and we’ve watched them through the minors. I love that we only have 1 big name free agent (Ibanez) on our entire team. I love the style of Howard and Rollins, the grit of Utley and Werth, the craziness of Victorino, the determination of Ibanez and cool of Lee. They are so easy to root for in a way that guys like A-Rod are not.
OK – that was more than I thought I would write about the Yanks, but I’m done now. On to the Phils.
At the beginning of the season, we didn’t know what we were going to get from Cole Hamels after an insane amount of innings in 2008, Brett Myers after a renaissance late in the year, Jamie Moyer at age 46 or Joe Blanton in his first year in the NL. We had no clue whether Ibanez would be an improvement over Burrell or whether Jayson Werth could handle a full time role and being the only power RH in the line-up.
Given all this, I set my expectations at winning the division. Just keep the Mets (who fixed their horrible bullpen, and were the trendy pick to win the division) at bay and I would be happy.
To be honest, I wasn’t sure we could do it. I didn’t like our rotation depth, I didn’t think our bullpen could repeat their ridiculous performance of 2008 and I wasn’t sure Ibanez and Werth would be able to get it done.
But here we sit at the end of 2009, and not only did win our 3rd straight division title, but we won our 2nd straight pennant, and joined the ‘75-’76 Reds and ‘94-’95 Braves as the only NL teams in the NLCS era to win back-to-back pennants while winning at least one World Series. Along the way, the team gave us some moments that we will never forget.
Sure, losing the World Series was tough, but there are 28 teams that would do anything to be in that position. After so many years of being one of those 28 teams, there is no way I’m not going appreciate what this team did.
So where do we go from here? Obviously our core is in tact for next year and there are some moves that could be made. There is also another season of playoff revenue and a likely increase in ticket sales next year that could result in another payroll increase. That will be for another day, and I don’t plan on slowing down the Phillies’ posts during the off-season. If anything, I will be ramping them up.
Among the things I will have for you…
- Rumors and what they mean to the Phils
- Top-20 prospects updates, including individual posts on the top-10
- More Top-20 all-time seasons
- Payroll analysis and organizational depth chart – updated as moves are made
- Who is the best Phillies team ever? (a real tournament run through whatifsports.com)
- My own potential off-season plans and targets
- and much more…
It’s been a great season and it’s been great seeing our readership grow here and I hope to continue to spark intelligent, well-researched Phillies’ discussion all off-season. Thanks to you guys, and thanks to the Phils.
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{ 34 comments… read them below or add one }
Pete
Another great job, and classy in defeat!
You are right about one thing, another “store bought” title for the yanks will NEVER, EVER compare to the joy of the Phillies victory last year.
And, I too told my daughter (BT), before the Series started … “win or lose I LOVE THESE GUYS” for all the reasons you stated. Crazy, always smiling Shane, Chase (best 2nd baseman in mlb), J-Roll’s honesty, J. Werth a star in the making, Chooch-tober, RRAAUUUULLL!. etc. etc. etc. (wish Ryan H would have shown up).
Now, lets get some pitching and beat “the evil empire” next year!!!!
Tom T. from Lancaster, NEW YORK. All New Yorkers are not Yankee fans. Love the Fightin’ Phillies !!!
Priority #1 – Lock up Lee before he has another great season for us! We know he’ll pitch well, but if he’s lights out again we can’t keep him in South Philly past next year.
Gotta agree, Pete. Unbelievable year. Coming into this season I was still on a high that I had never felt from a sports team..all I wanted was respect by making the playoffs again. We ended up a few hits, runs, and 2 games from another parade…anyone who complains about that is an idiot!
This team is something special and I can’t wait to see the boys back on the field in the spring.
Go Phils!
Nice wrap up, f-stop.
Its been great following this blog from day 1 of the 2009 season, let’s keep it going. I can never get enough Phillies talk and I always get the best inside scoop from here. I also am completely bored with the Sixers and skeptical (as always) of the Eagles.
I am disappointed, but losing this season makes 2008 even more special, and I can’t complain about losing in the Series in a hard-fought matchup. I hate the Yankees, but I would rather lose to them than the Red Sox who puttered out in the playoffs.
I also believe that although a year older, this team has less question marks on paper going into 2010 than it did heading into 2009. Our lack of injuries has been remarkable, and I am already looking forward to Spring Training where I hope to make it down to Clearwater.
A few guys I’m interested in watching over the off season: Victorino is up for arbitration. Is he going to get a decent, multi-year deal? Would be nice to lock him up for the next several seasons. Blanton is up for Arb as well, how much do they commit to him with guys like Savery waiting in the wings? As much as I dig him as a dude, I hope Bruntlet has played his last game in red pinstripes. It’s time to move on and find a reliable back up infielder.
Oh, and heading into free agency is the great Matt Stairs. Is his stay in Philly over? He’ll never have to buy a beer in this town again. Maybe one day someone will open a canadian restaurant at CBP and name it after Matt.
Props to Amaro. Without the Lee and Raul moves this team would have been a disappointment. Because of them they were able to shake off bad years from Rollins and Hamels and still win the pennant.
Also credit to the blog for accelerating by baseball education.
Great job Pete. Sorry about my negativity. I was so negative in my posts because I have never loved a Philly team (any sport) like this one but down deep I knew the Yankees were probably better. I didn’t want to admit it. I hate the Yankees and what they stand for. I wanted so bad to beat the Yankees I couldn’t deal with it when it was becoming apparent that they were better. And Steinbrenner’s comment about “the world is right again” just took away any respect I would have grudgingly given them.
I love this team so much I really am hoping they make no significant changes, except maybe another starter (3rd or 4th) and reliever. Hopefully JC will come back strong. I really think Hamels will come back strong – that he will have learned from this year and prepare better. And he pitched significantly less innings this year which should help as well.
After reviewing your depth chart yesterday, I am in a position I have not been in with the Phillies for many years. I am not used to having studs in the minors pushing for spots. I would like all of these players to stay together for at least 3 more years. I think there is that much prime at least left in Howard, utley, victorino and werth. I really can’t imagine an improvement over howard, shane and werth in our farm system. Geez, Werth pushed up against 40 homers and 100 RBI with no protection like a howard behind him and after howard had cleared the bases so many times. Would Taylor or the Dominic really be able to improve on that? Shane is such a great versatile player and chemistry guy. Even if you argue the talent drop-off isn’t there, can you really replace the post-season experience these guys have? So my hope for next 3 years is that they continue to deal with an eye on the present. I see a current spot for Drabek and maybe left field to replace Ibanez. If you can get another Lee at next year’s deadline to go with the current lee and Hamels, I say go for in and give up two more studs in the system. This group could win 2-3 more titles in my mind.
Pete,
Great job! Thank you Pete and the Phillies…As depressed as I am today I am just as proud of this team as what more can you ask for out of these guys. I’ll bet if you ask any fan of any other team outside of New York that they would trade their “hometown 9″ for ours. But the funny thing is that I would lose with this team any day of the week rather than win with that Yankee team and I give them their credit, but they are not the “TEAM” that the Phillies are. Also, I give Amaro a ton of respect that I never thought I would by the way. Good point TK.
I really don’t want to soud like I’m in a sour grapes mode.
But…
I accept that the Phils lost to the Yanks. I honestly can’t say the Yanks are better. Baseball has really dipped into a messy state over time. Girardi’s 3 starter strategy worked because of the absurd scheduling, so that helped the Yanks. I have always deplored the DH rule. The AL has a built in advantage. Matsui is terrific, but he couldn’t make the Phils roster, or even the Nats with his knees. Since its so infrequently used in the NL, why spend money on one. So you wind up with a Matt Stairs, or Ben Fransisco, which are okay, but Matsui is still a kick ass offensive player. So the Yanks won, and they are a terrific team, but that doesn’t mean I have to automatically salute them as better.
My hopes were high for the year. I guess as I look back on it, from earlier in the year, I’d have been disappointed had we not had a deep playoff run. What that means specifcally, I don’t know. Long LCS series? Everytime I looked at the HK patches, only a repeat was good enough. I feel okay about getting this far maybe, but WFCx2 was what I really wanted.
Regarding the forthcoming tournament of all time Phillie teams, I’ll give my opinion in advance. I cannot begin to tell you how connected I felt to the 80 team. I was the age a number of people on this board appear to be now, and can relate to your enthusiasm at that stage of life. That said, I’m not glued to the good old days. I think Michael Jordan is better than Wilt, Bo Jackson is better than Jim Brown as examples.
That leads to this. I have no question this year’s Phils are better than last year’s. Raul over Pat, Cliff, J Happ, Ruiz is a real star now, Werth is better are the leading plusses. So I think the 09 team would beat the 08 team, and there is little doubt in my mind tha the 09 team would beat the 80 squad in a short series if they played best of 7. We’ll see what the computer says.
It was a helluva year. Core as it is, I’d say we have a realistic scope on 1 more WS run in the next 2 years. Be nice to win it, but just getting there should put the Phils in the group of all time great teams, which is a nice accomplishment. That said, the fun is great, but the ring is the thing.
Pete good job on the recap. To all others get over yourselves, the Yanks are better and that’s why the won the damn series.
Whose fans are better? come on now are we going to be telling each other that my father can beat up your father.
You ran into the wrong New York team, a team that was better then the Phillies. There is no shame in that, the Phillies were champs in 08 and have a great team now and for the near future.
Ken Bland,
Your post #9 was both forthright and interesting, and elicited my responding:
- Would baseball be “in a messy state” today had the Phillies given you your WFCx2?
- Girardi’s strategies worked because of absurd scheduling. Absurd reasoning; both teams played under same set of conditions.
- I can’t honestly say the Yanks are better. What will it take beyond them outhitting & outpitching Phils in 6 (with world-attention pressure mounted)?
- The AL has a built-in advantage. Except when the NL has a built-in advantage (in their home parks).
- You don’t have to “automatically” salute Yanks as better, but what would you say to a Rays fan in ‘08 who took that illogical stance for his/her losing team?
- Michael Jordan better than Wilt? You obviously didn’t see Wilt play in his prime (‘63-’69) . Bo Jackson better than Jim Brown? Only if you like less durable, less impacting running backs than Brown. (Sounds like you’re chronologically glued to the 80s, but just a guess.)
- ‘09 team would beat the 80s squad? Proximity shading reality perhaps? ‘80 squad (especially Sept./Oct. version) with airtight infield, reliable bullpen and superior bench would edge today’s heroes, in my opinion.
- HK patches, the powder blue blazer and the white bucks? Mawkish by now. Enough respect has been paid to the former ”saint” behind the microphone. Time to move on. I’ve been a Phils fan 10 years longer than Harry – and he was handsomely paid for it (with perks)! Lots of average Joes on the street today are as nice, but without bandwidth and built-in audience. And By Saam and Bill Campbell before him were/are gentlemen and listenable announcers as well.
Capacity for another WS run in next 2 years? Absolutely, with shrewd and progressive ”tweaking” by front office.
Well said Pete. It was a fun ride this season, certainly not the end result that made last year so special, but a special season nonetheless. Thanks for having a place for us to come by check in and appreciate the quality of this team.
The Greek: To all others get over yourselves
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Pete gets accolades. everyone else gets admonished for stating the same opinions? everyone here loves the Phillies, is proud of their team and is looking forward to what is sure to be a promising future. What is there for me to “get over?” Being disappointed about losing the World Series is to be expected, its normal, its what makes someone a fan. I don’t care who they lost too and when they lost to them. The Yankees were a hell of a team, but we were plenty good enough to win. It isn’t just OK to get there, but it’s damn respectable.
And by the way, their stadium sounded like a giant waiting room for games one and two. The ground shook in South Philly for nearly every minute they were here. Ours are certainly a hell of a lot louder.
Hi Folks,
Let me start by saying that I am a Met fan – yes a Met fan (Unfortunately these days). However, I am also a big fan of baseball. This was the first year in quite some time that the two best teams in baseball actually played in the world series (With the wild card diluting the whole thing). The Yankees were the better team and it was a tale of the bullpens – Mario Rivera will be enshrined in Cooperstown one day.
Now regarding the Phillies: As a Mets fan I do not look forward to the next 3-6 years (pending on injuries or player breakdowns) of playing in the same division with the Phillies. I hear Philly fans busting on Ryan Howard and Cole Hamels – if you don’t want them – I know another team in NYC that will gladly take them.
PhilNetlan, Rivera is TRULY GREAT and Yanks are rightful champions but Lidge, Hamels and Howard (listing big culprits of crown loss) all shrunk this time around. Time for change at Citi & CBP. Let’s go blockbuster: you can have Lidge, Hamels and Howard for K-Rod, Santana and Wright. Deal?
was nice run while it lasted. no regrets. Yankees with all their overpaid players were the better team, clearly. if you look at all the things they did from their angle were very impressive. when it comes down to it, the yankees HIT our pitching not that it was so horrible anyway. think of Matsui, Jeter, Damon and A-Rod at bats. as much as you love to hate, gotta give ‘em props. bout the only person I can blame is Feliz the rally killer. but even he came up big in game 4 and played superb defense.
lets see what happens next year. pls. tell me they can lock Cliff Lee up. if he got stolen by the NYs or Boston team, i dunno if i could handle that.
for once I’d say we dont have to worry much bout the Mets (more like the Braves though) next season, i think we just jumped into a whole new class this season, provided roster is untampered with. good luck to them keeping up.
To jjg and jaky,
Santana and Wright are the two bright spots on the Mets – in my opinion – everyone else is (would love to management have the nerve to do this – and just rebuild again through the farm system). The Florida Marlins have great farm system – they may find away to contend
I hope the Mets don’t go out and sign overpriced free agents – They need to rebuild and get some players who jell with team chemistry.
Baseball desperately needs a salary cap – go football!! Great game – 16 games with meaning – free minor leagues in the form of college football – you can suck and three years later have a respectable team! Wait – this is a baseball blog – sorry folks
Thanks for the forum and for all the work, Pete. A good group and good discussions always makes it enjoyable.
Still getting over the loss. With all the injuries and subpar performers this year I really didn’t expect us to make it all the way to the world series, so I am happy we did. It’s just that when we got to the playoffs everything seemed to be lining up like it did last year and I started to expect more. Not used to seeing us come up short over the last couple years.
Games 3 and 4 really were killers. We should have won one and been playing a game 7 tonight. We could have won both and made Rollins’ prediction stand up. We didn’t. Simple as that. Water under the bridge now.
It helps to know that the bulk of a very good team will be here for a little while longer, that Charlie can keep it together and guide them to wins, and that Amaro has shown himself able in addressing needs and improving the club. All of that leaves me looking forward to more good baseball and good discussions.
What amazes me about the Phillies and some posters here, but mostly our newspaper writers act like the window is nearly closed because Howard, Utley, Werth, Victorino are all 30-31. Yet, the main reason Yanks won was Jeter, A-rod, Rivera, Damon, and Matusi. Not a single one is under 35 and most are 37 or older. What do we make of that?
they will only get better with time. all we have to worry about is keeping them here
Looking back at the postseason, Phils were 5-0 with a 1.8 era in the games that Lee started and 4-6 with a 5.3 era in the games he didn’t. Lee went into the 8th or later in all of his games, the other Phils starters made it to through 7th inning exactly once (Pedro in Game 2 of the NLCS) in the other 10.
Critical to get the bullpen in shape for ‘10 and let’s hope Cole get’s back into ‘08 form and Haap approximates what he did this year.
jkay, Worst thing any organization can do is stand still on talent on the basis of familiarity and sentimentality/loyalty. Aging and continued growth aren’t dependable corrolaries, especially in a game where success or its lack rests on millimeters and nanoseconds, like baseball. In Jeter, A-Rod, Rivera & Matsui, you’re talking about elite players, 3 bound for the HOF. Phillies are not as well-stocked with time-resistant talent. A GM with untouchables is a GM short on wisdom - my opinion. Before individual players became corporations unto themselves, great talent was moved in trade often. Shake-up is sometimes good. Moving a major Phillies piece (while stock is high) for different talent filling other needs could prove beneficial.
Love reading the blog. Big ups to my die hard sixer’s fan uncles’ suede and sfw for getting me hooked.
Every Phils season starts and ends with their pitching. Lee’s option should be picked up and hopefully Hamels will get his game face back on. After that, I hope we put some trust in our minor league system and maybe Amaro. I hope the system will also breed our relievers next year (Bastardo, Mathieson, etc.) Finally, either a reincarnation of Rollins the leadoff hitter needs to emerge or a switch between him and Victorino or we need to get a leadoff hitter in here to feed our lineup (i.e. Figgins?) This was very aggrivating during the playoffs especially in Game 6.
I told myself not to read any sports articles for a few days but I couldn’t stay away. Great recap Pete. I don’t have much to say except I love these guys and I can’t wait till next year. And…our bullpen needs a bit of an overhaul.
jjg: i never said anything about being untouchable. Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Jimmie Rollins – if you wanted to upgrade on those guys, or one of them, who would you get? no one wants to stand in the way of progress but if what you already have is more valuable than what is out there, why try? Werth, Victorino – could move those but i just dont see any pressing need to. cant do it just for the sake of giving the minor leaguers a spot. we need pitching badly but i think we can do it without that.
<<- Would baseball be “in a messy state” today had the Phillies given you your WFCx2?>>
Of course, the ridiculous start times and days off to partner up with tv, ownership of clubs who either can’t or won’t put money into product, separate rules for separate leagues, all star game determining home field, kids playing soccer instead of baseball, baseball playing 2nd fiddle by a wide margin to football in all but a few markets around the country.
<<- Girardi’s strategies worked because of absurd scheduling. Absurd reasoning; both teams played under same set of conditions. >>
That’s why I said I accept the Yanks won. But the fact of the matter is the season is based on one set of circumstances, and in the playoffs we had days off that enabled the Yanks to go with a 3 man rotation. I probably sound like I’m taking away from the Yankee pitchers winning/pitching well on 3 days, which I’m not intending to. Let’s just say I find the playoffs dragged out too long an its a different yardstick than the regular season.
- I can’t honestly say the Yanks are better. What will it take beyond them outhitting & outpitching Phils in 6 (with world-attention pressure mounted)? >>
It doesn’t matter if they are better. What matters is they won. And it especially doesn’t matter if one person thinks they are better. I don’t convincingly draw that conclusion based on the series result.
- The AL has a built-in advantage. Except when the NL has a built-in advantage (in their home parks). >>
Clearly, my original comment, reviewed, and specifically crystal clear went over your head. Let’s try again. The AL plays about 150 gmes a year with a DH. Therefore, it is necessary to have a good DH, which translates to a high salary (well, should). The NL teams play about 12 games with a DH. Why spend millions for 12 games? So when the AL hosts, and they have a DH, they have an advantage. And its not small. It’s 4 at bats a game.
Michael Jordan better than Wilt? You obviously didn’t see Wilt play in his prime (’63-’69) . >>
Totally wrong.
Bo Jackson better than Jim Brown? Only if you like less durable, less impacting running backs than Brown. (Sounds like you’re chronologically glued to the 80s, but just a guess.)>>
I won’t contest the durability. Based on power and speed, and not career length, though Brown wasn’t long.
- ‘09 team would beat the 80s squad? Proximity shading reality perhaps? ‘80 squad (especially Sept./Oct. version) with airtight infield, reliable bullpen and superior bench would edge today’s heroes, in my opinion.>>
Waste of time arguing that, we’ll disagree.
- HK patches, the powder blue blazer and the white bucks? Mawkish by now. Enough respect has been paid to the former ”saint” behind the microphone. Time to move on. I’ve been a Phils fan 10 years longer than Harry – and he was handsomely paid for it (with perks)! Lots of average Joes on the street today are as nice, but without bandwidth and built-in audience. And By Saam and Bill Campbell before him were/are gentlemen and listenable announcers as well.>>
You don’t come from the same personal experiences I do. If you wish to try to convey a thought to another person to make them see the light, that’s one thing. It’s disrespectful to try to think your feelings about someone are right for others. That’s about as diplomatic a reaction as I will offer on that last comment.
PhilNetFan: ‘I hope the Mets don’t go out and sign overpriced free agents – They need to rebuild and get some players who jell with team chemistry.’ – thats the first time i’ve ever heard a Mets fan say something like that. everyone expects instant success these days. Phils are a victim of good timing. Beltran, Reyes, KRod, maybe Church/Francoeur; your players are much better than they perform. for some reason it just doesnt come together. who knows why.
jjg: i dont follow Hideki Matsui much but when did he become a lock for the hall of fame?
amazing season though…amazing!
The Greek-
CNNSI headline on the Yankees parade “Thousands gather for Yankees parade”
headlines for Phillies parade last year? “Millions gather for Phillies parade”
and that’s with an city population 3 times smaller than NYC
Pete,
Sour grapes man – big deal on the size of each parade – who cares!
The Phils have picked up Cliff Lee’s option for next year. Also, Ruben Amaro stated that he has spoken with Lee’s agent a couple times during the postseason about a contract extension.
Amaro also said that they have not decided on Pedro Feliz’ option (they have until Monday)………..
“More than anything else, what options might be out there for us,” said Amaro, asked why the decision on Feliz’s option is more difficult than Lee’s. “And deciding whether picking up his option is best suited to try to move forward. He had a solid year for us. I like the man personally. He’s a great person. He’s a great teammate. But I also believe in trying to improve and sometimes a change can be for the better. It doesn’t necessarily mean we’re going to, but it’s something that we’re thinking about.”
just giving The Greek a hard time – he’s a long time poster.
I really hope they don’t pick up Feliz’ options. There are lots of good FA options available (both expensive and cheap) including:
that sounds like they want to lose Feliz but want to get feelers on what some other guys would cost.
More news:
Brett Myers’ career as a Phillie is over (Amaro is not taking long at all to start remaking the team).
Myers said he would have been willing to sign a one-year, incentive laden deal to remain with the Phillies, but the Phillies weren’t interested. He also said he has no preference regarding starting or relieving with his new team. He said he would like to pitch closer to his Jacksonville, Fla., home. If he starts, he would like to start in the National League. If he is a reliever, he would pitch in either league.
Also, Brad Lidge is having his right elbow examined to see if he, like Scott Eyre, has “loose bodies” floating around inside it. If so, it would make “loose bodies” as contagious as oblique strains were this year .
Last, Raul Ibanez was to have an MRI today to see if surgery is required for his injured groin/abdominal injury.