Our philosophy on PG is the same. I love the Nash’s and Stockton’s of the world if you can get one. But Augustine is not anywhere close to that good or as good as Marc Jackson either. So when it is between a pure point I think will be just ok and a combo guard who has already known the ability to run the point and has significantly more potential in all areas to be an impact player I am taking best available.

I actually think Bayless has the potential to be as good if not better than Billups as a 6’3 everyday PG (Billups isn’t a high assist PG), and has the dominant offense to be like Deron Williams scoring the ball whenever he wants but with a better jumper.

Also, I am not sure where you are getting the one-sided turnover-prone from. 2.8 (Augustine) vs. 3.0 (Bayless) isn’t that big a difference for two players who both dominated the ball in college. Augustine turned the ball over with over-penetration and getting trapped and stuck by bigger players I see that happening even more in the NBA. I think Bayless will turn the ball over less because his role will be diminished and he won’t be dominating the ball as much (depending of course in what system he goes to).

Basically I think Bayless is a triple threat player who coming off a screen can pass, shoot or drive. Augustine I only see him passing and right now on the Sixers I am not all that confident in who he would be passing to.

We both want a true PG, but I want the better player in this particular case.

Jerryd Bayless:

-Pros: Insanely gifted athlete, never takes a night off, great slasher and can get to the rack anytime he wants, both a great overall shooter and a clutch end of game player, real quick getting up and down the court, has an absolutely LETHAL first step, a knack for finishing tough plays around the hoop, can find crazy angles to get the ball in the basket, has a nice midrange stop-and-pop game, and a pretty good shot selection for a guard of his type, can put the team on his shoulders, moves w/o the ball well, fearless player.

-Cons: Dominates the ball too much, makes poor passing decisions, not the greatest drive and dish guy out there, doesn’t have the “eyes in the back of his head” gene to really throw a dime when a teammates are moving well without the ball, when he goes on a scoring binge has trouble recognizing when to stop pulling the trigger, extremely turnover prone, not a great leader yet, takes it 1 on 4 too much.

DJ Augustine:

-Pros: Has easily the sickest handle out of anyone in the draft…his dribbling skills are ridiculous, extremely quick, a gifted passer, excels in both a full court running game as well being able to run an excellent half court set, kickass bball IQ, great decision making, really knows how to balance scoring and passing, excellent outside shooter, great leader, brings a lot of intangibles and savvy veteran bball IQ, great at finding the open man on a drive, great at getting teamates involved in the offense.

-Cons: Lack of height, not the most athletic cat, subpar defender, no ability to post up, lot of PG’s could outrun him, over dribbles on the perimeter too much, needs to develop a better midrange game.

-Bayless could be like…a hybrid of Chauncy Billups, Tim Hardaway, Monte Ellis…he’s got that Baron Davis swagger in him too. I could also see him falling into the Randy Foye no man’s land type deal…or a nice scoring point that ballhogs it just a bit too much and doesn’t get the team involved (see: Williams, Mo). He thrills me because he could be a successful 20 ppg 6 ast, 4 rbd type guard. Scares me because he could be a 18 pt 5 ast guard that doesn’t run a team worth a damn.

-Augustine could be like…a 2nd tier Rod Strickland or Mark Jackson type, but with a much better jumpshot, yet 2-3 less assists. I think UConn’s Marcus Williams is a similar player, except Augustine is more poised, polished, a better scorer and shot maker.

Basically Dannie I think we have a difference in philosophy with PG’s. I can’t stand scoring PG’s for the most…I hate 18 pt 6 ast guys, and I see Bayless as that. I’ll take a Stockton, Cheeks, Mark Jackson type any night over a Sam Cassell. I would never ever build around a 6’2-6’3 combo guard type, no matter how gifted. It’s so rare to find guys like a KJ or Tim Hardaway that are truly perfect mixes of passing/scoring…I tend to take a glass is half full attitude towards players transitioning from combo guard to full time playmaker. But Bayless IS one hell of a talent.

Augustine I can see getting TJ Ford numbers, although their games are completely different (14 pts, 7.5 assists, in that range).

I’m not in love with either, but will always opt for the assist guy over the scorer, even if the ceiling is lower. With big men I’m the opposite…I’d rather take the gamble on someone I’m less sure about. If we had a different roster I’d go for Bayless…but right now I think we need someone where their position is defined and they are more of a sure thing. Hence, for me: Eric Gordon. I think he’s a lock for a 22 – 23 ppg all star two guard for years to come, absolutely love the kid.

1. I’d much much rather have a 6’3 player at point guard than a 5’11 guy although I do like Augustine. It eliminates the potential to get taken advantage of by bigger pgs and actually gives us the advantage against the smaller pgs. Also when he penetrates he will be a threat to pass or score at the rim. Augustine is not scoring at the rim in the NBA so he is relegated to only a passer…

2. The whole point of us bringing in a point guard was so they can learn from Miller while he is still on the club and from Cheeks. I think Bayless was asked to be more of a scorer than passer on that zona team and if he was in a situation where he was asked to be more of a traditional point guard he would excel because you have to respect his shooting ability and first step quickness. The kid is 19 with loads of growth potential and even if it took him a year or two to really find his groove as an NBA point guard so what because Miller will be running the show anyway. This is a successor to A. Miller project with the best available point guard on the board after Mayo. Bonus – we get a NBA 3pt shooter as well.

3. The problem I have with D.J. Augustine is in something I doubt he has very much control over which is the combination of his height and lack of athleticism. There aren’t many successful sub 6’0 point guards in the game who pose very little threat to blow by their defender and that is pretty much what you are getting with Augustine. Can he run a team, sure but what else can he do? Can he get to the basket against NBA caliber defenders every night? Can he get a shot off against guys bigger than him and just as quick and quicker most nights? Can he guard anyone? Finally with Augustine I think what you see now is what you are going to get for the remainder of his career. I don’t think his potential is that high. And if my read is correct (which I am not sure it is) what you get isn’t more than a back-up PG who can “manage” a team at best.

Basically I think we just disagree on whether Bayless can be a starting point guard in the NBA. I do, and a very very good one who poses so many threats. And on Augustine who I think won’t be able to score in the NBA and his playmaking ability will rely heavily on whether he is quick, athletic and strong enough to get into the teeth of defenses in order to dish.

Dave what do you think best case scenario is for Augustine as an NBA player? Jameer Nelson?

What are everyone’s thoughts? Is anyone else hearing this?

What about a deal where we get the 5th and send Cardinal to NY for Randolph?

He’s too combo-guardy for me. I’m a big Zona fan so I always watch a lot of their games, and even though I think he’s a ridiculous overall basketball talent, I see him more as a 6’2 – 6’3 SG or mega-score first PG then an actual playmaker. No way I’m handing over the reigns to this guy to run an NBA team yet.

I think he fits great in Seattle, where he’s kinda just tossed in a situation with a bunch of other young, multi-position uber athletes…but I’m an old school believer in pass first PG’s, and if we get Bayless we’re basically getting a 1st rate better version of Lou Williams, which I don’t think is what we need to be grooming.

Could he be an effective NBA SG? I doubt it…college produces tons of 6’2 – 6’3 combo guards that score 17-20 ppg in college, only to see that they have no position in the NBA. In the last 15 years, only 3-4 players have managed to be a 6’2 – 6’3 SG…Allen Iverson, Steve Francis (when his career was still intact), Gilbert Arenas, and Monte Ellis looks ready to pick up the mantle.

I think he might turn out to be a great NBA player, and I could see him someday being a kind of cross between Tim Hardaway and Chauncy Billups. But I think it’ll take him a good 3-4 years to turn into a really solid playmaker, and just don’t think it’s worth the gamble. I’d pick DJ Augustine over Bayless in a heartbeat, who really has the balance between passing/scoring down pat.

They are not complete… yet.

There are typos though just so you guys are aware…