Here is the post-vacation edition of the Ramblings. After their pathetic 4-game sweep at the hands of Dodgers, I was about to write a post about why every single player on the team is responsible for the disappointing season. Of course, since then, the Phillies have won 4 of 5, so I’m not going to jinx them. However, considering how I think this season will turn out, you’ll probably see that article in late September anyway. On to the Ramblings…
- Last week, a huge step was made by the Phillies, and it was hardly covered anywhere and even when I write it here, it probably won’t knock your socks off: The Phillies signed 38th round pick Jarred Cosart with a $550,000 signing bonus. Why is this a big deal? Because the Phillies have opened up their pocket books this draft, and as a result, their already improving farm system is going to get a big boost. Cosart is a 2-3rd round talent that dropped to the 38th round because no one thought he would sign. The Phillies picked him, and blew him away with an offer (he was paid as if he was the 73rd pick in the draft, not the 1,156th, which he was). Cosart is not the issue, the issue is that the Phillies are starting to realize that having deep minor league talent is the best way to build a franchise (uh…duh). Along with Cosart, they made similar deals with higher-round pitchers Colby Shreve, Jonothan Pettibone and Trevor May. This is how teams like the Red Sox have great systems even though they never have high picks and why teams like the Pirates (who drafted Bryan Bullington #1 in 2002 over Prince Fielder and B.J. Upton because they knew he’d be cheaper) never seem to get better. A great sign for Phillies fans.
- I am completely flabbergasted that Chase Utley continues to be mentioned in the MVP discussion. He’s had a good year, but he’s been very mediocre for several months now.
- I’m currently watching the Phils/Dodgers on ESPN. It would be huge if we could return the favor with a 4-game sweep and go into our Tuesday/Wednesday series with Mets only a 1/2 game back.
- It looks like the pitching matchups for that series will be Pedro vs. Jaime Moyer and Johan vs. Kyle Kendrick. The Phillies had a chance to move Hamels up to pitch against Santana, but didn’t. Personally, I’d have thought about it.
- Carlos Carrasco AAA start tonight: 6.1 IP, 2 R, 0 ER, 5 H, 2 BB, 8 K. Now has a 2.10 ERA in 5 starts with 34 hits and 37 K in 30 IP. If I had ANY faith in Brett Myers, I’d be really excited about our rotation for 2009.
- Men on 1st and 2nd, 1 out, 3-0 count to Carlos Ruiz. Result? Weak pop-out. Please bring up Lou Marson.
- Speaking of sweet Lou, Marson and Jason Donald brought home the bronze for the U.S. in the olympics with Marson hardly playing and Donald hitting a HUGE 2-run HR in the bronze medal game. Can he play 3rd?
- I really want to know what the team’s gameplan is for the off-season if they are going to let Pat Burrell walk. We obviously need a RH power bat in the line-up and there won’t be a better one on the market than him.
- Ryan Howard is having one of the strangest seasons in MLB history…again. He is catching up to Josh Hamilton for the MLB RBI lead (115 to 108) and still leads the NL in both HR and RBI. If he finishes with the NL lead in RBI, he will shatter the record for lowest BA for an RBI leader (he’s currently hitting .229 and I believe the record is in the mid-.240’s). Also, he has a lowers OPS than Shane Victorino and is ranked 86th (tied with Skip Shumaker) in the MLB. I wonder if he still thinks he is worth $150 million with that .229 BA (not to mention 3 more errors than any other 1B).
- Cole Hamels is first in the NL is IP (on pace for 236) and WHIP (1.04), all with a 3.20 ERA. He is also on pace for 14 wins and 10 losses. Way to go, offense. (Speaking of the offense, 4 innings, 0 hits so far tonight. Booya!)
- Jimmy Rollins’ “front-runners” comments came on my first day of vacation, so this is a bit of a belated opinion. I have 3 opinions on this topic.
- First, Jimmy is very clearly wrong, the vast majority of Philly fans are die-hards, and it is BECAUSE we put so much emotional (and financial) stock in our teams that we get extremely frustrated when our players don’t perform (over long stretches, usually) how we know they can or don’t show the desire (read: hustle and drive) that we show. In other words – if we are spending our measly paychecks on $50 tickets and $150 jerseys, enduring crap from girlfriends over how much baseball we watch and becoming so emotionally involved that it effects our everyday life – we EXPECT that players put the same effort into it that we do. That’s all we ask. People who boo for other reasons are drunk shmucks, are in the minority and give the whole fan base a bad name.
- Second, even though I disagree, Jimmy is entitled to his opinion and I really don’t care what he thinks, I care how he performs on the field. If I was trying as hard as I could at something and was getting booed, I’m pretty sure I’d be ticked off and say something stupid too.
- Third, even though I think Jimmy is wrong, I also think that the fans reacted like babies by booing him more for his comments. If we can boo him if we think he isn’t giving us 100%, than he can call us out if he thinks we are being too harsh. Does everyone who booed shed a tear every time their boss critiques their work? Grow up.
- Phils 1, Dodgers 1 with 2 outs in the Top of the 6th. Hopefully we pull this one out to get to 1/2 game back.
Loading ...
{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
Pete…Welcome back from vacation and thanks for the Phillies topic. You’ve covered a lot of ground and I’m also watching the game, so I’ll do what I can right now.
I’m not going to worry about jinxing the Phils. Instead I’m going to provide some interesting stats, courtesy of Todd Zolecki. He had a post about our big four (Howard, Rollins, Burrell, and Utley) and the numbers he presents are eye opening. Check this out:
“Here’s a look at how the Big Four have performed since the team’s notorious 20-2 victory over the St. Louis Cardinals at Busch Stadium on June 13:
Jimmy Rollins
Through June 13: .278 (50 for 180) with five homers and 22 RBIs.
Since June 13: .248 (59 for 238) with three homers and 20 RBIs.
In August: .211 (16 for 76) with two RBIs.
Chase Utley
Through June 13: .317 (83 for 262) with 22 homers and 61 RBIs.
Since June 13: .248 (54 for 218) with eight homers and 23 RBIs.
In August: .243 (17 for 70) with three homers and nine RBIs.
Ryan Howard
Through June 13: .212 (54 for 255) with 17 homers and 54 RBIs.
Since June 13: .248 (56 for 226) with 16 homers and 50 RBIs.
In August: .164 (11 for 67) with three homers and nine RBIs.
Pat Burrell
Through June 13: .284 (62 for 218) with 17 homers and 43 RBIs.
Since June 13: .240 (48 for 200) with 12 homers and 27 RBIs.
In August: .167 (10 for 60) with three homers and six RBIs.”
Yikes! Is it any wonder we are struggling to score runs?
I saw that about the Phils paying way above slot for the draft picks. That is a very good sign. Hopefully they will be able to bring in a higher level of talent right from day 1 which will eventually make it’s way to the big league roster. I’ve talked about this before, but my philosophy goes like the saying…You can pay me now or pay me later…If you are going to build a championship caliber club, you arte going to have to spend money somewhere. Free agents and players already in the majors are much more costly than minor leaguers or draft picks. If you are not going to spend on draft picks, eventually you will have no choice but to pay a premium to obtain major league players. That’s being penny wise and pound foolish! If you are the Phils and say you are pretty much at your payroll limit (whether or not you truly are), you have got to find a more cost effective way of building a winner. Spending to bring in better talent and developing that talent certainly would seem to be a better way to go than to continually spend millions on middling veteran players.
I can kill two birds with one stone with this next bit. I found this about Howard and Burrell on mlbtraderumors.com a few days ago…
“With Ryan Howard looking at maybe a $14MM salary in his second year of arbitration, the Phillies could shop him this winter. Rosenthal lays out a scenario where they trade Howard and use some of those young players to acquire Matt Holliday. In this scenario Pat Burrell could be re-signed to play first base. I was surprised to see that a club official sees the chances of retaining Burrell as better than 50-50.”
That is very interesting, huh? I have talked about that exact thing a few times this year (trading Howard and moving Burrell to first). Reading that tells me that Howard is still looking for the mega-payday. It also tells me that Burrell likes Philly more than we may know. Clearly, this is a big move if it happens.
I see I’m not alone in my lack of faith in Myers. No way I want him on the roster next year. Great to see Carrasco continue his improvement. Maybe he will crack the rotation and contribute next year.
I talked about Jimmy Rollins’ comments under the last Phillies Ramblings topic. I don’t boo, but I understand that’s how some fans vent their frustration. I’m ok with it if it is reasonable and appropriate. If Ruiz grounds into a double play and kills a rally, booing right then and there is appropriate. Booing as he is coming to the plate for his first at bat in the next game is not appropriate. Rollins’ “clarification” of his comments went a long way with me. I understand where he is coming from. I just think he used a poor choice of words and lumped all the fans together unfairly. Like you said, the majority of good, supportive fans are getting a bad name because of the chuckleheads that boo everyone all the time. Also, a little personal responsibility might have avoided the whole blow up. If Rollins said something like, “We as players don’t like being booed, but we understand where it comes from. We know that we haven’t played as well this year. I haven’t played as well this year. We’re as frustrated with this season as the fans are, so the booing is only natural.”, I think what he said would have been received differently.
Well, Feliz just sent a first pitch fastball into the seats in deep leftcenterfield for a game winning 3-run homerun in the bottom of the 11th. We hung in there and picked up another win. Hopefully we can return the favor tomorrow and pull a 4 game sweep on the Dodgers tomorrow.
I’ve got to get some sleep. I’ll pick this up tomorrow.
Went to sleep on the game. Quite a finish! Gonna make my monday a bit sunnier on vaca! About time Burrell was inserted betweeen the lefties. Good results. He deserves to be kept at the right price. Not sure what that is.
Pete, great info regarding the draft. Need to bridge this group with a core group in the minors a couple years from now. Like the rotation going forward but also wonder about Myers. He’ll be drifting back in performance in a game or 2. Historically, seems to me he’s has his good runs for 5 or 6 games then bad for a few.
Pete…About Hamels. What you said puts me in mind of the discussion we were having under the topic “Does Schilling Belong in the HOF” a while back. Hamels is the perfect illustration of my statement that wins (and losses) by a pitcher is the most misleading statistic and should not be the sole measure of whether or not a pitcher is good, great, bad, or whatever. Schilling’s win total was certainly adversely affected by pitching for a string of lousy Phillies teams in the late 90s. Back then I bought up Nolan Ryan. He is widely considered one of the greatest pitchers ever and has over 300 wins, but he is barely above .500 for his career. We are now seeing this on a regular basis with Hamels. 50 years from now, people will look back, see Hamels’ record, and pidgeon hole him into some category based on that. Wins and losses barely begin to tell the whole story of a pitcher. You’ve got to look at much more for an accurate picture.
Speaking of Hamels, Yahoo sports has a baseball blog called Big League Stew. There is a weekly column called Answer Man. Last Friday, in the locker room before the game with the Dodgers, Hamels was interviewed. It was really just a fluff piece, but the very last question and answer caught my attention.
“Q: You took a lot of flak about what you said after your contract was renewed for $500,000. How did you handle all that?
CH: Immaturely. It was a lack of experience, not knowing when to keep your mouth quiet and just go about your business. But, if I never would have said it, I probably never would have learned the lesson and it probably would have bitten me further down the line and got me in some trouble. Sometimes, you are human, and everybody has that situation where you want to get that raise and it’s hard to go up and confront your boss — or else you’re going to get walked-all-over (in negotiations). I do understand the situation a lot better. I’m just going to go out and play the game I love, because if it was taken away from me, I don’t know how I’d be able to handle my life. I talked to mentors — other players — my wife, my parents. Basically people who’ve lived longer than I have who said to just let it go. There will be a time to stick up for yourself. That wasn’t it.”
Nice to see that change in perspective. Maybe we’ve got a shot at keeping him for a long time after all.
bski-
very interesting trade rumor with Howard and Burrell. The only thing about trading him for Holliday would be that you have to sign Holliday anyway. Burrell does love Philly – remember when he nixed that deal to Baltimore even though he was getting KILLED everytime he came up? If Howard is hitting .229, leading the league errors (at 1B) and breaking his own record for K’s in a season and STILL thinks he’s worth $150 mill, it might be time to trade him (but as I’ve said before, I’d rather have Matt Cain)
Those August numbers are awful. AND YET, we are only 1/2 game out. If they pull it together, we could go on a run. But it has to be soon.
not frontrunners? maybe I was wrong – here is a poll from the Inquirer this morning….
WTF????
Great game, my favorite player is Shane Victorino without question. Just love his energy – for a while now I think he has been the leader of this club both with his play and his fire.
Pete – that is the definition of a leading question (taking me back to my marketing research class in college) . I don’t know whether it was deliberate or whether someone just doesn’t know how to structure survey questions but as written it is designed to get a specific and bias answer. They should have wrote “Are you fired up about the Eagles?” They would have gotten a more reliable response.
marketing shmarketing. the answer still should have been “yes.” any NFL fans should know that pre-season expectations mean nothing (see 2008 Giants, 2006 Steelers, 2003 Raiders, and 2000 Rams for examples).
Let, me say I am excited for the Eagles I want to see if McNabb is back 100% and sharp and how the young guys perform.
But I have to defend the people that said “No” to that question. Sorry, but it’s not as easy to get excited about a team whose best wide receiver is a 5′10 rookie (very excited about Jackson and the return game after Friday). One receiver out, and another who has underachieved and seems to be injury ridden.
More importantly a Coach/GM who says that situation right there is just fine and good enough to get the job done, while a president spews nonsense about doing whatever it takes “pedal to the metal” to win a Super Bowl.
That’s just like asking Sixers fans (prior to this upcoming season) “are you as excited about the Sixers as you were when they had Doc and Moses?” It’s hard to say Yes to that question as it is framed, that’s all I am saying.
Back to Phillies talk before BSKI gets pissed!
Dannie…Come on now, you know I’m not like that. Did I come across that way when I made my request? It’s going to take more than a little Eagles talk to get me off these baseball topics. Besides, I wasn’t the one who got all bent out of shape over mixing the discussions.
You are dead on about Victorino. Turning a single into a double was literally a heads up play by him. He saw that Manny was making a “routine” play on the ball and made him pay. He definitely has his head in the game, which isn’t always the case with some others.
Rollins’ comments appear to be putting more pressure on him. He looks lost. 0-5 last night and hanging his head. That’s not a good sign for us. He’s got to turn it around if we are going to have a shot.
Howard just kills me. That diving catch was probably the best defensive play of his life. Add to that the fact that he made a throw to second to get Pierre on the pickoff play and I should be feeling great about him. However, going 0-4 (and looking pretty weak at that) and getting picked off really takes a lot of the luster off for me. That’s what I mean about having your head in the game. Where exactly was he going? Very frustrating.
Pete…That trade rumor is something, isn’t it? I don’t know that Holliday is the best way to go either. The main thing that I take away from it is that the Phillies appear ready to face the fact that they either can not or will not offer Howard the mega contract he is looking for and are prepared to move on to a future without him. Of course I am interested in the particulars of any deal involving Howard but, for now, this is a big first step.
I wasn’t kidding when I said I needed another baseball topic. It’s unhealthy to keep all of this in.
Pete…I just got a chance to read the Daily News. Bill Conlin’s article touches on a lot of what you mentioned in your Phillies Ramblings (Marson, Donald, Howard, Rollins, Burrell). Also, there are several Eagle’s references for Dannie.
On Howard…
That is the question. I think it was ironic too because they had just thrown to first and Joe Morgan was talking about how great Howard moves for a big man and that he has 8 steals. WHOOPS!!
The possibility of Maine being out for the year along with the uncertainty over Wagner’s status really bodes well for the Phillies’ playoff chances, I think. At the same time, the division could very well come down the five games remaining against the Mets.
Gotta give props to Pedro Feliz for his late game heroics last night. Either it was a coincidence or a testament to how weak our bench is, but the offense really hit rock bottom once he landed on the DL. Now he’s back and hopefully things will continue to click. The Phillies are certainly better off with him in the everyday lineup, allowing Dobbs to go back to the pinch-hitting role he has thrived in all season. The dude also plays a mean hot corner.
Let’s keep it up tonight, Brett. I’d feel great with a sweep. Tomorrow night is the begining of an enormous series and it would be nice to go in with some momentum.
Great sweep tonight. The 2007 Jimmy Rollins was in the lineup hitting line drives from line to line and sparking the offense. I hope this is the beginning of the turnaround we need from him. The bottom line is when he gets on base, we win.
His one hit notwithstanding, Howard looks awful. He might be the only hitter in the game who could strike out on 2 pitches. He is off balance, not seeing the ball, and swinging at everything. Actually, many times he is not even swinging. When he does not recognize the pitch, he ends up doing nothing more than waving at it as he tries to either hold up his swing, or to get the bat through the zone when he starts his swing late.
I know Burrell hade a miserable night (0-5 and 8 men LOB), but was it really necessary to sub in Taguchi to play the top of the 9th considering we had a 5 run lead? I know this is old and tired already but it still bugs me, so I had to mention it.
Myers seemed to pitch well and be in control. I didn’t realize how many hits the Dodgers had off him until later in the game. Even though he gave up 9 hits and 3 walks, I never felt like he was in serious trouble. To his credit, he kept his composure and made pitches when he needed to. I am thrilled that he is finally pitching well, but it still does not change how I feel about his future with the club (which is to say that I hope he doesn’t have one).
What I am most pleased about is the aggressiveness the Phils have been playing with lately. They took it to the Dodgers the entire series. The Dodgers were laying back (Manny last night, Kent tonight) both defensively and on the bases. Conversely, the Phils kept going after it and took every extra base they could, and it paid off in a big way. Werth scoring from second on a groundout is big time. The hustle seems to be getting infectious. Maybe we’re getting a little confidence back and we’ll continue to play loose and fast. That would certainly be welcomed.
We are now at the point where every game we win makes the next one that much more important. Up next is a huge two game series with the Mets. Here’s hoping we take it to them, pick up two wins, pass them off, and leave them in the rear view mirror.
As a little aside, Baseball Tonight after the game showed the Phils a lot of love. Rollins did a post game interview. They also featured the Phillies segment of their greatest players in franchise history series. The espn staff chose Schmidt, Carlton, and Roberts as our top 3. (the fan vote on espn.com was for Schmidt, Allen, and Carlton) Afterward they had a phone interview with Schmidt. A nice way to cap off the night.
Bski:
I thought the fact that Myers gave up so many hits without a run was incredibly encouraging. The guy’s problem has always been his head; his stuff was never the issue. Pre-All-Star Break Myers would have melted down in alot of those innings. Post-All-Star Break Myers maintained his composure and got out of some tough jams. To me, striking out Kent with the bases loaded then getting Manny to fly out to right shows that he’s a little more stable between the ears. On the mound, at least.
Also agree about Rollins. Last night he was spraying hard line drives and flying around the bases. Just like he was doing last year. I know it’s a fact that’s been hammered home ad nauseum, but Jimmy dictates this offense. When he gets on the base, the runs pretty much take care of themselves. Hopefully he has turned the corner. J-Roll has always been my favorite Phillie.
Interesting note I read yesterday: John Heyman of SI.com wrote in an article yesterday that Brad Lidge is his dark horse NL MVP candidate. Gotta wonder. It isn’t the strongest field of candidates, after al…
Manny’s quote on Brett Myers? “That guy is nasty.”
JYurk – you are absolutely right that it was great see Myers get out of trouble without losing it. Great sign. I think I have confidence in him for the rest of ‘08 (but fully expect him to suck in ‘09).
Today is the most important game of the year. If we lose, we are down 1 1/2 games and facing Johan Santana followed by 4 against the Cubs, while the Mets play the Marlins for 3.
Albert Pujols is the slam dunk MVP. He’s hitting .359 with a .467 OBP and a ridiculous 1.106 OPS for a team that is overacheiving. He has only struck out FOURTY-FOUR TIMES.
JYurk…You are right. The fact that Myers kept his composure is encouraging and I did give him credit for that. I’m thrilled that he is pitching well now because we need him, but there is no way we can count on him beyond this year. (The operative word in that last sentence is now. We must remember that he was horrific for 2/3 of the season.) Myers has a history of unpredictability, both on and off the field. There is no way I commit to him for 35 starts or 70 late inning appearances out of the bullpen next year. God only knows what we’d get. I say we should be thankful for what we are getting from him now, hope it continues so his trade value rises, make the best deal we can to address a need, and say goodbye to all the drama and uncertainty that is Brett Myers.
Pete…After watching Baseball Tonight name their top 3 Phillies, it reminded me of your top 20 seasons topic that’s on the way. I’m curious to see which ones made your list. I think I’m prepared for it.
bski – itll happen, im just not sure when. might have to be an off-season thing, because I’m finishing my NFL preview, and then Dannie and I have a ridiculous NBA preview planned, and I’m going to keep doing the Ramblings. Might end up doing it one season at a time too, not sure.
as for the Baseball tonight thing. I’m absolutely shocked that Dick Allen was in the fan’s top 3. That’s ludicrious! The top 3 Phillies of all time are Schmidt, Carlton, Roberts – and there’s almost no debating that. There is a pretty big dropoff after those 3.
Pete, I wouldn’t call Grover Alexander, Chuck Klein or Richie Ashburn a big dropoff next to 3 you name. And Allen’s roster presence, beginning in Sept. ‘63, emboldened a Phils’ squad to legendary ‘64 Almost in a similar respect to Sixers’ Moses Malone effect in ‘82-’83. Allen also sparked a revival in town in summer of ‘75 on his re-arrival with a productive 12 and 62 in 416 ABs in 119 g on a team that had been treading water (Schmidt, Luzinski, Allen, Hebner – not a bad 3, 4, 5, 6). While he had authority issues and his Phils career was thusly interrupted, the man personified greatness on the field. People watched him bat in awe. Great baserunner too. Played hard when he played. ‘72 AL MVP as member of Chuck Tanner’s White Sox. Richard Anthony Allen, the “Wampum Walloper”, a Phillies all-time great, regardless of brevity and self-sabotaging reflexes to the powers that were.
Pete…I have no idea how Dick Allen got in there either. If I remember, Schmidt got something like 42% of the vote, Allen got around 22% and Carlton was between 20-21%. Puzzling.
About your top 20 seasons, no rush. I understand. The NFL season is right around the corner. I just thought about it is all. Actually, the off season would be a good time to do it. You could do it one at a time or in groups of 4 or 5 at a time. Hey, if you have 10 pitching seasons and 10 hitting seasons, you could pair them up and put out one of each with each post. Whatever way you decide to do it, I’m looking forward to it. Hopefully the Phils will be active in the off season. Add that in and we’ll have lots to talk about until spring training. Thanks.
There isn’t a huge drop-out, I guess, because they are HOFers, but, in terms of career and greatness, I don’t think it’s close who the top 3 are.
Schmidt and Carlton are the obvious top-2. Roberts was a one-man team in the 50s, the best pitcher of the decade, would have had 4-5 Cy Youngs (not exaggerating) if it was awarded back then, and is one of the top-15 RHP of all-time.
I know Allen had some amazing seasons for us (he actually had his best for the White Sox in 1972) but he was never above 4th in the MVP voting and only had over 100 RBI once.
I would put Pete “Grover” Alexander and Chuck Klein ahead of him.
Pete, 60s – different era, different mound height, different pitching code, bigger parks, less travel comfort/perks = different batting metrics/stat accumulation. See Allen’s contemporaries.
JJG…When I think of all-time greats for a franchise, I automatically think all-time statistical leaders for the franchise. You know, for position players, all-time leader in home runs, rbi, runs hits, steals, walks, gold gloves, etc…or for pitchers, wins (even though it’s flawed), era, strikeouts, games started, complete games, shutouts, Cy Young awards, etc…
Allen was a great player, but he only played around 1000 games for the Phils, which isn’t long enough to reach the top of the statistical leader board for the franchise. A guy usually needs to be up around 1500 games to get within range, which would be around 10 years with the club. (Schmidt played 2400 games with the Phils) Allen had some great years, just not enough of them with the Phils.
bski, Burrell’s on the verge of passing Olney’s Del Ennis for second place on Phillies career HR list. Neither player could hold Allen’s jockstrap on a baseball field. Greatness is bigger than statistics. My guess is you didn’t see Allen play in his prime. I see where you’re coming from though.
JJG...I may have seen him play, in fact I’m sure I did, but I don’t remember him . I turned 9 in 1976, which was his last year with the club. That said, I am certainly aware that he was a great player. I hope you know that I’m not comparing Burrell, or anyone else for that matter, to him. Like I said before, the espn thing was meant to determine the 3 greatest Phillies, not to name great players who played for the Phillies. Allen was great, but the only statistical category where I could find him in the top 5 all time for the Phils is slugging %.
You know, I think Frank Robinson is one example of this distinction between being an all time great player vs. an all time great player for a specific franchise. Frank Robinson was unquestionably an all-time great but, considering he split his career between the Reds and the Orioles, I don’t know that he would be considered an all-time great for either franchise. Especially if we are talking about being in the top 5 in franchise history in many statistical categories. If anything he may be an all-time great Reds player, as he played for them for 9 years, but I don’t know about the Orioles, as he was only there for 6.
Anyway, you get my point. Just because a guy played for multiple teams does not diminish his greatness. It does however limit the amount of greatness he represented to each franchise he played for in the time he was there.
Well put, bski. Robinson, a good corollary to Allen. Won an MVP as Red and Oriole. Helped take both franchises to World Series. Another great right-handed hitter who tore up whichever league he was playin’ in. (Player-managed Indians at tail end.) Both guys were physically tough and exceptionally talented, and dealt – in minor league paths and majors – with overt rascism that doesn’t exist to same extent today. Robinson & Allen, dynamite clubbers, no matter their club.
spelling correction re #25: “racism”
JJG…Glad to see you get where I’m coming from.
Pete & Dannie: What happened to the opportunity to make changes to your post? I noticed a banner across the top of my posts telling me it was “awaiting changes prior to posting” or something like that, but it was only for one day (or a part of one day). Poor JJG is still posting corrections after the fact.
bski, The pity would be posting corrections before the fact.