Comments on: Phillies Ramblings http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:41:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4354 jjg Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:28:16 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4354 bski, The pity would be posting corrections before the fact.  bski, The pity would be posting corrections before the fact. 

]]> By: bski http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4351 bski Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:18:09 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4351 <strong>JJG</strong>...Glad to see you get where I'm coming from. <strong>Pete & Dannie</strong>:  What happened to the opportunity to make changes to your post?  I noticed a banner across the top of my posts telling me it was "awaiting changes prior to posting" or something like that, but it was only for one day (or a part of one day).  Poor JJG is still posting corrections after the fact. JJG…Glad to see you get where I’m coming from.

Pete & Dannie:  What happened to the opportunity to make changes to your post?  I noticed a banner across the top of my posts telling me it was “awaiting changes prior to posting” or something like that, but it was only for one day (or a part of one day).  Poor JJG is still posting corrections after the fact.

]]> By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4350 jjg Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:07:21 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4350 spelling correction re #25:  "racism" spelling correction re #25:  “racism”

]]> By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4348 jjg Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:00:05 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4348 Well put, bski.  Robinson, a good corollary to Allen.  Won an MVP as Red and Oriole.  Helped take both franchises to World Series.  Another great right-handed hitter who tore up whichever league he was playin' in.  (Player-managed Indians at tail end.)  Both guys were physically tough and exceptionally talented, and dealt - in minor league paths and majors - with overt rascism that doesn't exist to same extent today.  Robinson & Allen, dynamite clubbers, no matter their club.       Well put, bski.  Robinson, a good corollary to Allen.  Won an MVP as Red and Oriole.  Helped take both franchises to World Series.  Another great right-handed hitter who tore up whichever league he was playin’ in.  (Player-managed Indians at tail end.)  Both guys were physically tough and exceptionally talented, and dealt – in minor league paths and majors – with overt rascism that doesn’t exist to same extent today.  Robinson & Allen, dynamite clubbers, no matter their club.      

]]> By: bski http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4345 bski Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:23:27 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4345 <strong>JJG.</strong>..I may have seen him play, in fact I'm sure I did, but I don't remember him .  I turned 9 in 1976, which was his last year with the club.  That said, I am certainly aware that he was a great player.  I hope you know that I'm not comparing Burrell, or anyone else for that matter, to him.  Like I said before, the espn thing was meant to determine the <em>3 greatest Phillies, </em>not to name great players who played for the Phillies.  Allen was great, but the only statistical category where I could find him in the top 5 all time for the Phils is slugging %. You know, I think Frank Robinson is one example of this distinction between being an all time great player vs. an all time great player for a specific franchise.  Frank Robinson was unquestionably an all-time great but, considering he split his career between the Reds and the Orioles, I don't know that he would be considered an all-time great for either franchise.  Especially if we are talking about being in the top 5 in franchise history in many statistical categories.  If anything he may be an all-time great Reds player, as he played for them for 9 years, but I don't know about the Orioles, as he was only there for 6. Anyway, you get my point.  Just because a guy played for multiple teams does not diminish his greatness.  It does however limit the amount of greatness he represented to each franchise he played for in the time he was there. JJG...I may have seen him play, in fact I’m sure I did, but I don’t remember him .  I turned 9 in 1976, which was his last year with the club.  That said, I am certainly aware that he was a great player.  I hope you know that I’m not comparing Burrell, or anyone else for that matter, to him.  Like I said before, the espn thing was meant to determine the 3 greatest Phillies, not to name great players who played for the Phillies.  Allen was great, but the only statistical category where I could find him in the top 5 all time for the Phils is slugging %.

You know, I think Frank Robinson is one example of this distinction between being an all time great player vs. an all time great player for a specific franchise.  Frank Robinson was unquestionably an all-time great but, considering he split his career between the Reds and the Orioles, I don’t know that he would be considered an all-time great for either franchise.  Especially if we are talking about being in the top 5 in franchise history in many statistical categories.  If anything he may be an all-time great Reds player, as he played for them for 9 years, but I don’t know about the Orioles, as he was only there for 6.

Anyway, you get my point.  Just because a guy played for multiple teams does not diminish his greatness.  It does however limit the amount of greatness he represented to each franchise he played for in the time he was there.

]]> By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4340 jjg Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:38:21 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4340 bski,  Burrell's on the verge of passing Olney's Del Ennis for second place on Phillies career HR list.  Neither player could hold Allen's jockstrap on a baseball field.  Greatness is bigger than statistics.  My guess is you didn't see Allen play in his prime.  I see where you're coming from though.                bski,  Burrell’s on the verge of passing Olney’s Del Ennis for second place on Phillies career HR list.  Neither player could hold Allen’s jockstrap on a baseball field.  Greatness is bigger than statistics.  My guess is you didn’t see Allen play in his prime.  I see where you’re coming from though.               

]]> By: bski http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4334 bski Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:35:56 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4334 JJG...When I think of all-time greats for a franchise, I automatically think all-time statistical leaders for the franchise.  You know, for position players, all-time leader in home runs, rbi, runs hits, steals, walks, gold gloves, etc...or for pitchers, wins (even though it's flawed), era, strikeouts, games started, complete games, shutouts, Cy Young awards, etc... Allen was a great player, but he only played around 1000 games for the Phils, which isn't long enough to reach the top of the statistical leader board for the franchise.  A guy usually needs to be up around 1500 games to get within range, which would be around 10 years with the club.  (Schmidt played 2400 games with the Phils)  Allen had some great years, just not enough of them with the Phils. JJG…When I think of all-time greats for a franchise, I automatically think all-time statistical leaders for the franchise.  You know, for position players, all-time leader in home runs, rbi, runs hits, steals, walks, gold gloves, etc…or for pitchers, wins (even though it’s flawed), era, strikeouts, games started, complete games, shutouts, Cy Young awards, etc…

Allen was a great player, but he only played around 1000 games for the Phils, which isn’t long enough to reach the top of the statistical leader board for the franchise.  A guy usually needs to be up around 1500 games to get within range, which would be around 10 years with the club.  (Schmidt played 2400 games with the Phils)  Allen had some great years, just not enough of them with the Phils.

]]> By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4331 jjg Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:55:11 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4331 Pete, 60s - different era, different mound height, different pitching code, bigger parks, less travel comfort/perks = different batting metrics/stat accumulation.  See Allen's contemporaries. Pete, 60s – different era, different mound height, different pitching code, bigger parks, less travel comfort/perks = different batting metrics/stat accumulation.  See Allen’s contemporaries.

]]> By: Pete http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4329 Pete Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:42:01 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4329 There isn't a huge drop-out, I guess, because they are HOFers, but, in terms of career and greatness, I don't think it's close who the top 3 are. Schmidt and Carlton are the obvious top-2. Roberts was a one-man team in the 50s, the best pitcher of the decade, would have had 4-5 Cy Youngs (not exaggerating) if it was awarded back then, and is one of the top-15 RHP of all-time. I know Allen had some amazing seasons for us (he actually had his best for the White Sox in 1972) but he was never above 4th in the MVP voting and only had over 100 RBI once. I would put Pete "Grover" Alexander and Chuck Klein ahead of him. There isn’t a huge drop-out, I guess, because they are HOFers, but, in terms of career and greatness, I don’t think it’s close who the top 3 are.

Schmidt and Carlton are the obvious top-2. Roberts was a one-man team in the 50s, the best pitcher of the decade, would have had 4-5 Cy Youngs (not exaggerating) if it was awarded back then, and is one of the top-15 RHP of all-time.

I know Allen had some amazing seasons for us (he actually had his best for the White Sox in 1972) but he was never above 4th in the MVP voting and only had over 100 RBI once.

I would put Pete “Grover” Alexander and Chuck Klein ahead of him.

]]> By: bski http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-ramblings-4/#comment-4328 bski Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:35:15 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=522#comment-4328 <strong>Pete</strong>...I have no idea how Dick Allen got in there either.  If I remember, Schmidt got something like 42% of the vote, Allen got around 22% and Carlton was between 20-21%.  Puzzling. About your top 20 seasons, no rush.  I understand.  The NFL season is right around the corner.  I just thought about it is all.  Actually, the off season would be a good time to do it.  You could do it one at a time or in groups of 4 or 5 at a time.  Hey, if you have 10 pitching seasons and 10 hitting seasons, you could pair them up and put out one of each with each post.  Whatever way you decide to do it, I'm looking forward to it.  Hopefully the Phils will be active in the off season.  Add that in and we'll have lots to talk about until spring training.  Thanks. Pete…I have no idea how Dick Allen got in there either.  If I remember, Schmidt got something like 42% of the vote, Allen got around 22% and Carlton was between 20-21%.  Puzzling.

About your top 20 seasons, no rush.  I understand.  The NFL season is right around the corner.  I just thought about it is all.  Actually, the off season would be a good time to do it.  You could do it one at a time or in groups of 4 or 5 at a time.  Hey, if you have 10 pitching seasons and 10 hitting seasons, you could pair them up and put out one of each with each post.  Whatever way you decide to do it, I’m looking forward to it.  Hopefully the Phils will be active in the off season.  Add that in and we’ll have lots to talk about until spring training.  Thanks.

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