I don’t have much time to write, but I thought I’d get this up for discussion. Pat Burrell signed a 2 year, $16 million contract to be the DH for the team he beat in the World Series, the Tampa Bay Rays.
My first impression of this move is that it is a great one by the Rays, and it makes our 3 years, $31 million deal with Ibanez look pretty bad. No way Ibanez is worth twice as much as Burrell. Not even close. If we could have signed Burrell to this deal (and I imagine we could have), we absolutely should have. I would have been ecstatic with that deal for him.
It will certainly be strange seeing him in a different uniform. But, I’m glad he went to a team I like, and who should be on national TV a lot next year.
Discuss amongst yourselves…
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{ 35 comments… read them below or add one }
I wish they had signed Pat to a deal like that, and used Ibanez’s money to sign Lowe. I’m happy for Pat the Bat though, almost perfect situation for him.
dan-
agree 100%
That would have been my preference too, Dan. How the Phils handled this situation doesn’t make much sense to me.
I posted this earlier under the “Lowe to the Mets” topic. I’ll re-post it here.
Here is an update from mlbtraderumors.com on the Lowe situation:
——Kat O’Brien of Newsday is reporting that the Mets’ negotiations with Lowe are expected to heat up this week.
——Scott Boras says that the alleged 3-year, $36 mil offer was never made by the Mets.
——-John Heyman says that Lowe is looking for $16 mil per season and that the Phillies and Braves are in the mix.
——-It is also being reported that it is unlikely that the Braves would top the offer the Mets might or might not have made.
For whatever it’s worth, we (the fans) can still hold out hope that The Phils will step up and get Lowe.
Burrell’s deal is for 2M a year more to NOT play leftfield. I think the deals are a wash. The AL is where he belongs, congrats. to Pat.
I think for that kind of money we should have signed Pat and kept a homegrown player here. We could have used that extra money to make a serious run at Lowe. But what is done is done.
And on top of that we gave up a 1st round draft pick to sign Ibanez but receive nothing in return for losing Burrell.
dre-
Well someone did it. I knew it would happen and I am pretty disgusted with our new GM. 8Mil a year and we couldn’t get this guy on our team? I am literally sick to my stomach. My season tickets in row 5 of left field will not be the same. Ibanez better produce.
Basically it is all summed up by FU Adam Eaton for stealing Pat Burrell’s $8M per year.
Milton Bradley signs with the Cubs for 3 years, $30… also less than Ibanez.
I feel the same as you guys about this Burrell/Ibanez situation, but I’ll tell you what. I give Amaro credit for not being afraid to stick his neck out.
I don’t know what went on behind the scenes with Burrell. I read the article in the Daily News a while back where Burrell was quoted extensively about how he was waiting to hear from the Phils and didn’t; about how they never did make him an offer and how he couldn’t understand why not. I have yet to see anything substantial from the Phils side of it. I don’t know if it’s because they are trying to stay out of a he said-he said situation or if they really dicked him over and would rather put the whole thing in the past.
Whatever the case, we all know that keeping Burrell would have been the safer choice. How would we all feel if we passed on Ibanez only to see him really produce for his new club over the next couple years while, at the same time, we suffer through a few of Burrell’s infamous month-long swoons or his 385′ singles off the wall in left-center field?
Look, none of us knows how this will play out. I’m willing to give Amaro a little latitude and some time (before I bash him for being an idiot) to see if he made the right move. Even though Amaro is out front on this, you know that Gillick was involved. That makes me think this has a chance to turn out pretty good for us. At least it makes this whole thing more palatable for now.
You know what might be kinda fun? I know I’ll be keeping track of Burrell as best I can and I’m sure I’m not alone. Why don’t we have a running assessment of both Burrell and Ibanez during the season? You know, we’ll track their production and decide for ourselves if Amaro made the right move. Pete, what if you had a picture of a gauge or a meter, with Ibanez on one side and Burrell on the other, somewhere on the site throughout the baseball season. The needle will point toward one guy or the other or somewhere in between depending on who is more productive for their club. We could compare them weekly or monthly and adjust the needle accordingly. Might be worth it, you think?
Maybe I could understand this if Burrell was a lefty all this time and Ibanez was a righty. But I’m scratching my head a bit here.
Burrell, Ibanez – most likely a wash. Why the outcry? Leftfielders come and leftfielders go (just ask Ted Savage, Johnny Briggs, Phil Bradley or Wes Chamberlain). The former “Mayor Of Midnight” never was selected to an NL All-Star team, remember? He should’ve represented Nike: low and away “swoosh.” Ran bases like Jed Clampett. Sunset years in Tampa – perfect. “Cigar? Cigarette? Tiparillo?”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812334
Have people seen this? No blogs have it up yet. Romero suspended 50 games next year for testing positive for banned substance. Major issues with the procedure as can be read in the article.
did you guys see this? WTF?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812334
jjg-
I see where you’re coming from Pete. On the face of your terms, a questionable transaction and release. But behind-the-scenes stuff is not ours to comprehend and factor. The Series win and Burrell’s part in the climb romanticized his overall importance in public opinion, my opinion.
Maybe we should think for a minute. From what I hear, Burrell turned down an offer from the Phillies. I think Pat decided it is time to slow down, relax, be a DH, very close to home (Clearwater, FL) and have home cooking most nights. I really don’t think he wanted to stay here but did not want to say that so he asked for the sky. My opinion, just a hunch. What really stands out is Pat Burrell, home, Clearwater, FL.
Dean H Makes sense to me, both logistically and characteristically.
On the other hand, who really knows? We’ll find out when Ruben retires and writes his memoir, “Strawberries And Pickles: Player and GM, Philadelphia-style.”
at first i was thinking that Pat probably wanted more years here and was forced to eat his humble pie when we signed Ibanez and THEN he had to settle for whatever he could get. but still the difference is HUGE, was there no way we couldnt have gotten him for 2yrs?? i think that is the case cos no GM could be that stupid right?
i’m not gonna depress myself anymore, I will just ignore this entirely!!
Pete: They got Milton Bradley!! crap! guaranteed he’s a head case but the production is to die for. do you think Charlie would have been able to handle him?
do you think we signed Ibanez too soon?
do you think Amaro is making rookie mistakes? too much pressure to act?
new GM in semi-pivotal free agent year = Kevin Kolb to start Q3 of Ravens game
I think this was a win-win for all parties involved here.
Congrats to Burrell and his new digs down there in Tampa. He will be a seasoned veteran on a very young team who will add power from the right side and hopefully help them win their 2nd straight AL East title. I’ve been on and off the Pat the Bat bandwagon twice as many times as McNabb’s. I have cursed and boo’d old Cement Legs for years, and also loved him when he would get streaky and crush one against the Mutts. But I think it was certainly time to go for Pat. If the Phils hadn’t won the WS, would you still have wanted the Phils to re-sign him? Ask yourself that question. We would need a change to our offense, something more consistent, less streaky, and the first one to go on that list would be Burrell. He went out on top, with pride, and I tip my hat to you Pat the Bat and wish you the best of luck in Tampa Bay. I will always be a Burrell fan now, and cheer him at every chance.
For Ibanez, I think this guy will show us something this year. Gillick has a keen sense of getting guys together and making good chemistry in the clubhouse, which creates a winning atmosphere. There is something good here just based on the fact he was on so many good teams radars. Was the price too steep (including the draft pick)? I don’t know yet but we will see. I think Burrell got bought for less than what he thought he would have gotten 3 months ago (and what he was worth), but that is the econmomy right now. Plus, to go to a young and talented team that just made the WS, probably his best chance at another ring with an AL team.
from Ken Rosenthal….
Oliver Perez, 27, is left-handed, eight years younger than Lowe and accustomed to pitching in New York. He also got married in mid-December, a sign of his growing maturity.
The Braves also like Lowe, but have yet to speak with his agent, Scott Boras, and would be reluctant to go beyond the Mets’ reported offer to Lowe — three years, $36 million.
The Brewers, too, are interested in Lowe, but only at a modest price. The Phillies would love to sign Lowe, but cannot absorb his salary while bracing for pay increases to their eight remaining arbitration-eligible players, including first baseman Ryan Howard and left-hander Cole Hamels.”
Good relay, Pete. Bang-bang play … “he’s out” (of 5 million), if Rosenthal’s sources are accurate.
Thanks for the updates, Pete.
Wouldn’t it be great if ownership told Amaro not to worry about the extra payroll in this case and gave the go ahead to get Lowe? He’s just sitting out there waiting to be picked up. Since he’s looking for $16 mil per season and isn’t getting any takers, maybe we could entice him with a 2-year, $32 mil offer instead. In that case, Lowe’s salary would come off our books right when Howard becomes a free agent, if we have any plans on trying to keep him at that time.
BTW, what did you think about the running Ibanez-Burrell meter I suggested in #10?
bski -
Pete….I don’t want it to be a burden, just something to allow us to keep tabs on who is performing better for their club and, by extension, whether or not the Phils made the right call by parting ways with Burrell and going with Ibanez instead. Maybe an update once a month would work.
As far as what measure to use, I think the simplest and most objective would be something sabermetric. Since Burrell will predominantly be a DH, defensive stats do not need to be factored in. As far as offensive stats, baseball-reference.com lists runs created and adjusted batting runs (which is supposedly a little more accurate than runs created). Maybe something like that would work. I’m not looking for anything elaborate. Just a simple number where everything has been factored in that we can easily track.
continued from #25……I don’t know why, but the Ankielometer that SI ran gauging his weekly progress (or regression) when he was in the minors trying to make the bigs as an outfielder just popped into my head when I thought about Burrell and Ibanez. If I’m the only one interested in keeping tabs on Burrell and comparing what we could be getting had we kept him with what we are getting from Ibanez, then forget about it. No biggie.
bski…I would certainly be interested in a running statistic the would gauge the 2 players performances this season. As long as its not too much trouble to create/update.
I’ll figure something out.
J Dubbz…..Since Burrell has been at the center of many a debate and has engendered so many conflicting emotions throughout his Phillis tenure, I figured I wouldn’t be the only one interested in keeping tabs on him. I’m just very curious to keep an eye on this to see if Amaro made the right decision.
Pete….Thanks. I guess you never know what you’re in for when you run a blog, huh? Or at least when you run a blog with a P.I.T.A. commentor.
bski…I am on board with you. Amaro’s first strike or single as a GM. Hopefully he and Gillick have some insider knowledge about Ibanez that makes him worth all this questioning on our part.
I am a 100% full fledged Pat Burrell fan now that his negatives have no effect on the Phils. He may even be my favorite non-Phil. When he is doing well, I will cheer him on like no other. And when he is slumping the other 80% of the time, I will be damn pleased that he’s no longer frustrating the hell out of me.
bski I used to regularly compare ’Sean Elliot, Danny Manning and Lionel Simmons’ activity the old-fashioned way, newspaper boxscores, before Lionel’s NBA career declined and then ended due to leg injury. The L-Train, one of city’s best ever … a complete player, and a winner.
Pat in his digitally added Rays hat….
jjg….I’ll do the same with Burrell and Ibanez.
I have to say I feel a bit guilty about adding to Pete’s workload. Rather than dump the whole thing in his lap, I’ll take it upon myself to help out.
baseball-reference.com has the gamelogs for every game of the season. There is a feature that allows you to click on a start date and an end date and you will get stat totals for that period of time. I’m thinking that maybe every 2 weeks or once a month I will get the totals for both Burrell and Ibanez and post them. How does that sound?
I really don’t want to do this by hand and then type it all in. I am going to try it right now to see how it shows up when I copy and paste it. Here goes:
Pat Burrell batting from career game #1150 (Mar 31, 2008) to game #1156 (Apr 7, 2008)
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
+—+—+—+—+—+–+–+–+—+—+—+—+—+—+—+—+—+–+—–+—–+—–+—–+
7 27 23 4 10 3 0 3 9 4 0 5 0 0 0 1 0 0 .435 .519 .957 1.476
haha. don’t feel guilty.
I don’t think it will be too hard to make work
Well I think that is decipherable, how about you guys? If so, you can count on me to obtain the stat totals for both Burrell and Ibanez and post them here on a semi-regular basis throughout next season. Then Pete can adjust the needle on the gauge accordingly so everyone else will be able to tell who is the more productive player at a glance.