Comments on: Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons, #17: Chris Short, 1964 http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:41:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#4: Chuck Klein, 1930 http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-44031 Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#4: Chuck Klein, 1930 Tue, 21 Dec 2010 03:08:03 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-44031 [...] #17 - Chris Short, 1964 [...] [...] #17 - Chris Short, 1964 [...]

]]> By: Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#13: Ed Delahanty, 1895 http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-41969 Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#13: Ed Delahanty, 1895 Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:28:59 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-41969 [...]  Curt Schilling, 1997 15.  Lefty O’Doul, 1929 16.  Brad Lidge, 2008 17.  Chris Short, 1964 18.  John Denny, 1983 19.  Tug McGraw, 1980 20.  Greg Luzinski, 1977 21.  Gavvy Cravath, 1913 [...] [...]  Curt Schilling, 1997 15.  Lefty O’Doul, 1929 16.  Brad Lidge, 2008 17.  Chris Short, 1964 18.  John Denny, 1983 19.  Tug McGraw, 1980 20.  Greg Luzinski, 1977 21.  Gavvy Cravath, 1913 [...]

]]> By: Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#10: Dick Allen, 1966 http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-41957 Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#10: Dick Allen, 1966 Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:23:03 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-41957 [...] 1895 14.  Curt Schilling, 1997 15.  Lefty O’Doul, 1929 16.  Brad Lidge, 2008 17.  Chris Short, 1964 18.  John Denny, 1983 19.  Tug McGraw, 1980 20.  Greg Luzinski, 1977 21.  Gavvy Cravath, 1913 [...] [...] 1895 14.  Curt Schilling, 1997 15.  Lefty O’Doul, 1929 16.  Brad Lidge, 2008 17.  Chris Short, 1964 18.  John Denny, 1983 19.  Tug McGraw, 1980 20.  Greg Luzinski, 1977 21.  Gavvy Cravath, 1913 [...]

]]> By: Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#10: Jimmy Rollins, 2007 http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-30243 Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#10: Jimmy Rollins, 2007 Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:14:12 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-30243 [...] #15 – Chris Short, 1964 [...] [...] #15 – Chris Short, 1964 [...]

]]> By: Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#13: Lefty O’Doul, 1929 http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-24537 Phillies Top 20 Individual Seasons,#13: Lefty O’Doul, 1929 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:27:57 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-24537 [...] #15 – Chris Short, 1964 [...] [...] #15 – Chris Short, 1964 [...]

]]> By: Ken Bland http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-23811 Ken Bland Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:43:31 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-23811 One year, Rafael Palmiero won a Gold Clove while playing for Texas.  He was primarily a DH.  Primarily is an understatement.  He played 1 game at 1st base. I mean just look at this year.  2 voters completely left Chris Carpenter off their Cy Young ballot.  I totally agree with your point about awards being deceptive.  Suffice to say that in 1964, Chris Short had an excellent season, and had a good amount of company in compiling great numbers that look even better with the way the game has changed. One year, Rafael Palmiero won a Gold Clove while playing for Texas.  He was primarily a DH.  Primarily is an understatement.  He played 1 game at 1st base.

I mean just look at this year.  2 voters completely left Chris Carpenter off their Cy Young ballot.  I totally agree with your point about awards being deceptive.  Suffice to say that in 1964, Chris Short had an excellent season, and had a good amount of company in compiling great numbers that look even better with the way the game has changed.

]]> By: Pete http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-23810 Pete Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:27:01 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-23810 <p>Dean Chance did put up one of the best seasons in MLB history that year, regardless of era.</p> <p>I don't put much stock in the award voting - there are always a million things going on that cloud the voters from the basic facts.</p> <p>Reason 1a why I don't trust voting? Ted Williams hit .406 in 1941 while leading the league in HR and Runs as well and sporting a 1.287 OPS. The winner of that AL MVP? Joe DiMaggio, who was worse, sometimes significantly, that Williams in <strong>every single category</strong> except RBI, where he had 5 more.</p> <p>Before I started this blog, I was working on a 100 greatest MLB seasons project, and was constantly shocked at how stupid some of the voters were (though in the case we were originally talking about, Chance did deserve it)</p> Dean Chance did put up one of the best seasons in MLB history that year, regardless of era.

I don’t put much stock in the award voting – there are always a million things going on that cloud the voters from the basic facts.

Reason 1a why I don’t trust voting? Ted Williams hit .406 in 1941 while leading the league in HR and Runs as well and sporting a 1.287 OPS. The winner of that AL MVP? Joe DiMaggio, who was worse, sometimes significantly, that Williams in every single category except RBI, where he had 5 more.

Before I started this blog, I was working on a 100 greatest MLB seasons project, and was constantly shocked at how stupid some of the voters were (though in the case we were originally talking about, Chance did deserve it)

]]> By: Ken Bland http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-23806 Ken Bland Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:22:09 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-23806 Chris Short left a long term impression as a very good pitcher.  And of course other things about 1964 stand out more, so its refreshing to read his impressive numbers, even for a pitching driven era. However, I did look up the Cy Young voting from 1964.  It does kind of bring you back to earth.  I could only access the top 3, which was from the final years of 1 Cy Young, and Dean Chance of the 4th year Angels won, soon to be Phillie Larry Jackson, 24-11, was second, and Sandy Koufax was 3rd.  Koufax won his 19 missing August and September.  Classic hard to believe Harry material there.  Not to Short the stylish left hander as By Saam used to call him, but while his numbers are terrific, they don't carry the dominant flavor of what guys like Pedro and Maddux did over multiple years, or what Cavaath did in 1913 winning the freaking RBI crown by 33, or Babe smashing twice as many homers as his nearest competitor, or more than any club which he did around 1920.  I guess what amazes me most is that as good as Short's numbers were that year, they weren't able to blow away the competition.  I guess I've gotten used to lousy pitching numbers and forget how standard they were at one time. Chris Short left a long term impression as a very good pitcher.  And of course other things about 1964 stand out more, so its refreshing to read his impressive numbers, even for a pitching driven era.

However, I did look up the Cy Young voting from 1964.  It does kind of bring you back to earth.  I could only access the top 3, which was from the final years of 1 Cy Young, and Dean Chance of the 4th year Angels won, soon to be Phillie Larry Jackson, 24-11, was second, and Sandy Koufax was 3rd.  Koufax won his 19 missing August and September.  Classic hard to believe Harry material there.  Not to Short the stylish left hander as By Saam used to call him, but while his numbers are terrific, they don’t carry the dominant flavor of what guys like Pedro and Maddux did over multiple years, or what Cavaath did in 1913 winning the freaking RBI crown by 33, or Babe smashing twice as many homers as his nearest competitor, or more than any club which he did around 1920.  I guess what amazes me most is that as good as Short’s numbers were that year, they weren’t able to blow away the competition.  I guess I’ve gotten used to lousy pitching numbers and forget how standard they were at one time.

]]> By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-19485 jjg Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:37:05 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-19485 Thanks again, Pete.  By the way, <strong>Short wore #41</strong> ... Mahaffey #28, Culp #37, Bennett #23, Bunning #14 and Baldschun #27 ... testing, testing (my synapses).    Thanks again, Pete. 

By the way, Short wore #41 … Mahaffey #28, Culp #37, Bennett #23, Bunning #14 and Baldschun #27 … testing, testing (my synapses).   

]]> By: jjg http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-individual-seasons-15-chris-short-1964/#comment-19484 jjg Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:25:54 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=6616#comment-19484 "Styles" Short, so nicknamed because he brought and wore one downscale suit with him for major league travel, was a REAL Phillie, moreso than Dec. '63 Detroit import Jim Bunning.  The Delaware native contributed to and endured the infamous '61 23 game losing streak, suffered the heartbreak of '64, pitched with metronomial form and fluidity (and KO arm power) throughout his Phillies days ('59-'72) with All-Star distinction.  The smaller-media era in which he pitched and his humble personality kept his profile relatively low in comparison to contemporaries he sometimes bested.  He takes a back seat only to Carlton in lefties I've seen pitch for Phillies.  A sad early end at 53 due to an aneurysm.  A very fine pitcher. “Styles” Short, so nicknamed because he brought and wore one downscale suit with him for major league travel, was a REAL Phillie, moreso than Dec. ’63 Detroit import Jim Bunning.  The Delaware native contributed to and endured the infamous ’61 23 game losing streak, suffered the heartbreak of ’64, pitched with metronomial form and fluidity (and KO arm power) throughout his Phillies days (’59-’72) with All-Star distinction.  The smaller-media era in which he pitched and his humble personality kept his profile relatively low in comparison to contemporaries he sometimes bested.  He takes a back seat only to Carlton in lefties I’ve seen pitch for Phillies.  A sad early end at 53 due to an aneurysm.  A very fine pitcher.

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