Ruben Amaro just announced that the club has re-signed Jamie Moyer to a 2-year deal. The terms have not been disclosed, but I would guess it is around $14-$15 million in total.
I have said several times that I was hoping that Moyer would ride off into the sunset, and that if the Phillies did want him back, they should only offer him a one-year contract so I can’t say I’m entirely pleased with this move.
It’s nothing against Moyer personally, but I believe that he is much closer to the pitcher he was in 2007 (5.01 ERA) than 2008 (3.71 ERA). His 2 horrible starts prior to his stellar World Series starts were the beginning of the end for me. But, not only are the Phillies betting he can pull it off again in 2009, but in 2010 as well, when he will be 47 years old.
I know he’s defied Father Time so far, but a year older is still a year older. I want nothing more than for him to prove me wrong, we certainly know it won’t be from lack of trying.
This move appears to more or less finalize our 25-man roster. Personally, I would have taken the money we used on Ibanez and Moyer and signed Derek Lowe, and then went with a Dobbs/Baldelli or Rivera or Michaels in LF. I think that the improvement of Lowe over Moyer would have been much greater that Ibanez over a platoon. Considering Amaro’s insistence that pitching is key, he did nothing to improve the rotation and spent his money on a left-handed outfielder who is very similar to Pat Burrell. Time will tell if he played his cards right, but I don’t agree with the logic behind it. There could be a trade or some other small move (dumping Adam Eaton for example), but I think what is listed below is what we’ve got.
Line-up
- Jimmy Rollins, SS
- Shane Victorino, CF
- Chase Utley, 2B (possibly replaced by Jason Donald on opening day)
- Ryan Howard, 1B
- Raul Ibanez, LF
- Jayson Werth, RF
- Pedro Feliz, 3B
- Carlos Ruiz, C
Starting Rotation
- Cole Hamels, SP
- Brett Myers, SP
- Joe Blanton, SP
- Jamie Moyer, SP
- J.A. Happ, SP
Bullpen
- Brad Lidge, CL
- Ryan Madson, RHP
- J.C. Romero, LHP
- Scott Eyre, LHP
- Chan Ho Park, RHP
- Clay Condrey, RHP
- Chad Durbin, RHP
Bench
- Chris Coste, C (or Lou Marson, or Ronny Paulino)
- Eric Bruntlett, UTIL
- Greg Dobbs, UTIL
- Geoff Jenkins, OF
- Matt Stairs, OF
“Jamie’s going to do what he can to play out this contract and be an effective pitcher for us,” Amaro Jr. said.
Wasn’t Frank Tanana or Bill Lee available? Agree with you, Pete. Moyer and his career 4.19 ERA for 2 yrs. in that money range at 46 yrs. old is questionable. 584 career starts, 9 shutouts. Man, I wish I perfected my knuckler.
Relax guys, it’s all good, Park still throws 95 per, Ibanez can flat out hit! and while I would have preferred Lowe, Happ is the sleeper in this line up and at least we don’t have to see Eaton and Kendrick, the starting lineup even with Father Time is marginally better than last year.
TT32-
Here is my post from the last topic. I’ll just add it on here in case nobody checks that one:
I’m with you guys about keeping Stairs over Jenkins. I think Jenkins won’t bring much in return but if we get someone to take his salary off our hands that extra cash could be better used at the trade deadline or even this offseason. I believe he’s owed almost 7 mil. I think Stairs is only making 1 mil. I’m sure that we could get a RH bat with some of that money. Maybe they could sign Willy Taveras now that he’s been non-tendered. Then trade Jenkins for a long shot prospect to dump his salary.
If Moyer is a cheese, aged would be great, but it is a bit pricy though to get him back! Our moves our not bad at all, what’s next?
Now, Utley is trying to come back on opening day!
Park: “I selected Philadelphia because they are the World Series Champions and have high expectations for a playoff berth next season … [and] as they considered me a starter, I signed.” Sounds like a practical, straight-shooter to me. I’ve always liked his demeanor on the mound. Hope he’s got a year or two left. Did he sign with promise of 5th spot or merely an opportunity to win the job? I wonder, and presume the latter, given Happ’s and Carrasco’s potential (and club investment).
Just read a scouting report – saberscouting.com - from 4/08 on Carrasco. ”Physical description: Workhorse body type, resembles Jeremy Bonderman.” “Numbers have been pretty horrid from stretch over entire career.” Author projection: “#4 starter w/flashes of better.” Comparison: ”Kyle Lohse (lower end) to Freddy Garcia (higher end).” Was an interesting and different take on the much talked about prospect.
Rumor has it Moyer wouldn!t sign unless a Japanese pitcher that was as old as him was also brought in. Jumpin, heard a scout last year say Carrasco was a #3 starter at best, maybe we are overvalueing him.
looks like 2 years, $13 million for Moyer with some performance escalators.
Yeah 2 years for $13mil is acceptable and almost a value right now for this guy, assuming he can contribute the same type of numbers he did the last few years. If his age causes his career to take a drastic turn for the worse (a la Game 3 NLDS), we may be getting hosed. I also read that this contract is loaded with incentives that could bring his total compensation in the realm of $20mil.
Is anyone else concerned with the fact that Park signed on because he was told he would be a starter? If he is given the opportunity to compete in spring training and doesn’t get it, will he be content with a spot in the bullpen?
Now that we know what the $$ situation clearly is with Moyer, do we have the funds to get anyone else of substance on this team via either a trade or the free agent market? Love the idea of trading Jenkins for dirt but not sure anyone would take on his contract. Made $5mil last season, not sure where he sits for 2009.
J Dubbz...Yeah, Moyer’s contract is ok from the Phils’ standpoint, IMO. I’m sure they would have preferred a one-year deal, but the incentives are a good trade-off for giving him a second, guaranteed year. This way he’ll have to stay “motivated” in order to collect a bigger paycheck and, if he does, he will have earned the money through his performance, which directly benefits us as well.
Am I concerned about how the Phils plan on using Park? Uh, yeah! Still, I’m figuring this is Chad Durbin, the sequel. Durbin was told he’d get a shot at starting too, wasn’t he? I don’t think he was entirely happy about being in the bullpen at first, but I would hope he is now. Durbin has pitched well enough to work his way to the back end of the bullpen. Most likely, Park will get a shot at the rotation in the spring with a chance of earning the 5th spot if he really shows something. If not, he will be in Durbin’s old bullpen role.
Barring a below-the-radar, adding depth type of pick up, I’d say we’re done. I’m really not expecting any big splash. Other than Garcia, (and Eaton I guess)–where we got soaked, btw—Gillick hasn’t made any big time acquisitions. Amaro seems to be following the same blueprint. Plus, we have our 8 arbitration eligible players to take care of, so I’d say that we are now looking at our 2009 Phillies.
I would argue that with this squad, we are better than the World Series team of last year. Addition of Ibanez/Park/100% Utley are better than Burrell/Gordon/Seanez/less than 100% Utley.
Not sure what that means other than our chances to be competitive are pretty good with a healthy squad.
“With a healthy squad” … oddsmakers would say Phils are due this year to have a few on the shelf after last season’s virtual skate.
Speaking of Utley, another display of brattish arrogance yesterday … (paraphrased) “… bad word; don’t use it, kids. But when you’re 29 (like me) and win a World Championship you can say it. Now let’s move on.” From the old ‘do as I say, not as I do’ handbook. The humble hero, not.
Role model?
J Dubbz….I’m with you. For me, as much as I hate to say this–since we always say this, it will all come down to our starting pitching.
There is no denying that we won last year because of the marked improvement in our overall pitching. The bullpen should be just as good as last year, but the starters still concern me (as they always do). Not counting injury, since it’s a wild card, here’s how I feel about our starting 5:
1) Hamels should be there, not concerned.
2) We need a consistent Myers. He appears to have turned it around, but I’m always concerned that he’s never too far away from going kaflooey (technical, baseball insider term). However, he is in a contract year, so that should keep him more “focused”. Moderately concerned.
3) Blanton seemed to round into form as the season went on and pitched his best in the postseason. I really think that biceps tendinitis affected him for quite a while. With that resolved, I expect him to be solid. Mildly concerned.
4) I would be much happier if Moyer were our 5th starter. That way we could keep him to around 28 starts, give him some extra days off, and limit some of the wear and tear on his body with an eye toward increasing his effectiveness (incentive clauses be damned). I know he’ll keep himself in great shape and be very well prepared to take the mound every 5th day, but I keep thinking, like Pete, that he is going to start moving closer to the 5-point era pitcher he was in 2007. I just hope it is a slow, gradual slide. Moderately concerned.
5) The 5th spot is what could really make or break us. (I know that it’s really no different for every team, but who cares about them? I want it all.) To me, relying on depth to determine your 5th starter means you haven’t got anyone who is clearly good enough to take the spot. I hope I’m wrong and someone emerges in the spring as the clear cut, no doubt, best, solid option for the 5th spot. I’m afraid of Park and I think Carrasco does need another year (a half-year at least) before he’ll be ready. That leaves us with Happ as our best option for now, IMO. Whatever the case, I’m looking for consistency from someone. Remember that last year, even though neither one was our 5th starter, we got a bunch of lousy starts from Myers and Eaton and we were able to overcome them. However, it would be nice to get a solid start every 5th day, as I’d rather not have to overcome any more self-imposed obstacles. Very concerned.
I forgot to add Kendrick to the mix for the 5th starter competition. Unless he has added a changeup and markedly improved his command, I’d rather not see him back in the rotation.
Also, I just checked the Inquirer. Todd Zolecki has a topic up talking about the same things that we are (The 2009 roster and the 5th starter). Here is his take.
I have to imagine either Haap of Kendrick gets the nod based on spring training results. Park has slim outside chance, but I believe his value in the bullpen outweighs his chances in the starting rotation. The article threw a name in there for the fifth spot I have not heard regarding the competition, Drew Carpenter? Anybody care to enlighten me on this guy?
J Dubbz…Here is all I’ve got for you on Carpenter. From phuturephillies.com and baseball-reference.com
I don’t know how serious a look the Phils are thinking of giving him. He did come up to the bigs in a pinch and threw one inning of relief on August 27th, but he just barely dipped his toe in the AAA pool, making only 1 start at that level.
I believe Park is indeed in the same situation as Durbin. I would be shocked if he made the rotation. But, I do think he will make a handful of spot starts during the year and could be valuable in that role.
Drew Carpenter is a decent, but dropping, prospect in our system. They had high hopes for him coming into this season, but he was terrible at Reading. When they dropped him to High-A, he excelled, when they brought him back up, he was terrible. He won’t make the team out of spring training. But could be a Kendrick type guy if someone gets hurt and Carrasco isn’t ready.
bski.. Thanks for the info. Seems like he and Carrasco will be in the same boat come spring training. The “let’s see what you can do up here at this level, and if you blow our minds, we’ll think about it” boat. Carrasco probably a little further along and better odds of actually making the team then Carpenter. But good exposure reagardless I guess.