For those of us who don’t have NBATV, didn’t get the free preview or couldn’t stand to listen to Spanish announcers we got our first taste of the 2010 Sixers.
Meh.
We lost the game on a dumb ass Willie Green reach in. Phantom call or not is unimportant to me. His instinct to reach in there are what was dumb. It was a risky attempt to bother a shooter who was 3 feet behind the three point line and well covered by a contesting 7-footer. The way Mike James missed that shot is the same way he would have missed if Willie just watched him. Oh well. At least we he got it out of his system in a preseason game.
With that said we didn’t lose the game because of that play.
Overall we didn’t get a strong showing by the Sixers. We were playing against a Wizard’s team without their starting backcourt of Arenas and Miller and they were also without Antwan Jamison. I fully expected to see them run over them last night. Nope.
They looked like the same ole Sixers – inconsistent, collectively not on the same page, lack of overall intensity and poor execution.
I will just run through a few points and then forget that game and start mentally preparing for the Phillies.
Elton Brand looks like 100% complete ASS. He still has zero explosion. He plays well below the rim offensively. He has not shown the ability to finish in traffic or with contact (remember this our a power forward).
On top of that he only took 4 shots (making only 1), and had the same number of rebounds as turnovers (2).
What’s even worse, Brand is 6th on the team in shot attempts per 36 minutes this preseason behind (Speights, Lou, Dala, Thad and Willie). He is taking 11.7 shots per game that’s only about one more shot than Kapono, Sammy and Jason Smith are taking per game.
So far he has not only shown us nothing to get excited about, he has really disappointed and gives no reason to believe he will return to the productive player he was in the past. Not good.
Speights continues to shine. He has easily been the Sixers best offensive player and he has been attacking the glass strong. He openly said he will be jacking when he is in the game. I really don’t care if he does so long as they are going in at a high rate. Right now he is shooting 50% from the field and 88.9% from the line. Something to get excited about.
Jrue Holiday can help. Offensively he is still figuring it out, but when we face teams with strong guards he will be an asset. He was D’ing up three quarter court when he was in the game, has a lot of energy and is sound fundamentally on the defensive end. Hopefully Eddie uses him in that early and often during the season so he gets comfortable and learns. End game situations when we really need stops at the end of the year and in the playoffs we want him to have that experience to lean on because our best chance is with him and Dala in the backcourt.
Lou Williams still can’t guard anyone. I think he might actually be better offensively this season so hopefully there will be much less “lou stinks” after games. But on defense he still looks too small, too weak and too clueless.
Jason Kapono can really shoot. When was the last time we watched Sixers games and saw a guy shoot the three and every time you thought it was going in. Korver? Well we have that feeling back. Kapono will make shots no doubt about it. I just hope they are emphasizing that he needs to just take the first open three and don’t get crazy with the pump fake, step in jumper.
Overall last night’s game was really bad for me personally. It was my first real taste of the Sixers and therefore my first impression and it tasted pretty nasty.
Still looking forward to the regular season getting started but not all that optimistic.
I was impressed with Jason SMith in that game. He was very explosive especially during that stretch he scored 7 straight, and was runing up and down the court screaming, dropping 3′s and getting out on the break finishing with a slam. Pre-Season or not I like that emotion from a big man, unlike Sammy’s nonchalant demeanor.
In some bizarre way the soul of Elton Brand’s game seems to have left his body and merged with Marresse Speights, though he was dominating the likes of Andray Blatche, he’s been impressive all preseason.
Man is that Kapono jumper SWEET!
Stinks to hear about Brand. Really stinks.
One positive – the court looks great now with the big classic 76ers while ball at center court. The whole place just looks brighter.
News: Dionte Christmas (and Brandon Bowman) have been waived.
I wasn’t too upset with the players performance. The substitutions were hairy and the 1st team didn’t get enough run together. You would think w/ only 1 more game before it counts the starters would get some more burn to try to figure it out as much as possible. It almost looked like EJ was scared to lose to the Wiz w/o Arenes and Antawn while playing his starters heavy minutes.
Agreed about the foul. Thats the first thing I thought, bad call but Willie had no business even giving the ref something to call. Mike James turn-around fade-away 27ft jumper with Smith up on him…hmm. If Willie would of made both of us FT’s on the sequence before it would of been tied anyway.
I really don’t think Brand looked that bad more than the fact the offense was not going to him. He still looks much better than last year, he actually looks comfortable and reasonably agile running, last year he looked like he had a broken wheel just moving. He isn’t above the rim by any means, but he hasn’t been in years and I don’t think there is a fan out there who is expecting that.
Either way its preseason, we’ll see what happens starting next week.
Ryan F – I can see you are just sticking with the completely optimistic viewpoint. That’s fine.
I am not going to blame an offense for Brand’s struggles. For one if there was clear value and payoff from him having the ball more he would have the ball more. He hasn’t really proved that yet.
That is beside the point. He still isn’t finishing around the basket with any consistency and whenever anyone is around him or bumps him he misses. He doesn’t look comfortable to me AT ALL. Not in the offense, not physically, not handling the ball. He is the POWER forward – where is the power?
Not too upset with the players performance? Really? So it’s acceptable to lose that faux Wizards team at any point.
I’ll be really curious to see how long those types of comments and feelings last.
Another positive – 77.7% from the free throw line so far in the preseason. They only shot 74.5% all last season.
most likely until somewhere around mid November, just like every other year.
Ryan F: the one thing I have constantly been hearing all around and I 100% agree with after last night is that Brand has no explosiveness. that is a pretty big problem. he just didnt seem to exert himself in the game except the ocassional muscling for the rebound. he could not even get lift for rebounds or above the rim action. i dont expect him to be like that every game but he’s not what we paid for.
Dannie: they were a lot of positives to take away from this game. I thought they played well and showed some poise, enough to execute with few turnovers. its a weaker wizards team but in the NBA it doesnt matter; we beat the Magic twice and then lost to them in Game 6 without Howard, we beat the Lakers and got embarassed by Durant-less Thunder. I liked what I saw in the sense that it was an improvement from last year, especially pick and roll defense. Their tendencies, which bug you, are still there, but they are less frenetic and more organised than last year.
In other news, the NBA and its refs are getting closer to an agreement. These replacement refs are much worse than the regular refs. Who would have thunk that?
I sure hope Brand gets his act together offensively and reach double figures come regular season or else it will be a nightmare for him this season!
Both Jasons have been great. Speights has really worked on his post up game. Iggy must get it going early in a game because there will be a lot of nights where we will need every ounce of his offense to muster more wins. He is athletic enough to do so, but his playmaking skills do make him tenative.
Jrue Holiday is not quite ready to handle PG duties as backup. Juan Dixon was released by the Hawks. Perhaps the Sixers and Stefanski should pick him up as a backup, a guy who knows Jordan’s system.
But next week is the bigger picture and quite a test. I hope they do finish off the Nets in Brooklyn to remove yesterday’s phantom call and the negatives of that game.
GO SIXERS!!! (AND GO PHILLY TEAMS!!)
Dannie – Are you guys doing a fantasy league this year?
Elton Brand seem to be going down the same path as Chris Webber. I believe we have a better team and coach than last year. I liked Coach Jordan’s style, he was up off the bench and communicating with the players, he was very involved. I like this team, Jordan needs to find out how to wake Brand up, he looks like he’s sleep walking just going through the motions
I’ve watched all of the preseason games I could (web feeds, en espanol, etc.) I even followed most of a game following the box and play by play (I’m a bit of a junkie, pathetic, I know.)
Last nights game was pretty much in line with what I’ve seen all preseason. Here some quick takes on the entire pre-season:
General Positives:
1. Iguodala looks improved. His jumper looks a bit smoother and more consistent. He also has taken over several of the games for long stretches and looked Lebron-esque for extended stretches. We’ll have to see if he continues the improved shooting form or regresses. BTW, his worst games were not televised.
2. Lou has been MUCH less selfish than last year. I was hoping that playing with better players would make a difference in his approach. last year he oftne was teamed up with offensive cripples. But now with the starters he seems very willing to play within the offense. That said, Iguodala has mostly been the lead guard once the ball has crossed half court- which might be a good thing.
3. Speights looks better overall. His post moves and the way he attacks inside are great to see. If Brand looked the same I’d be ecstatic. He also looks bulkier- its like he has put on 10+ pounds- mostly in his backside. Also, although he still tends to give up on defense and rebounds far to often, he has shown stretches that show he could be a good rebounder and decent defender- but who knows if he’ll ever make the effort. Either way he’s a net positive.
4. Sam looks like he can hit some open foul line jumpers within the offense. he has even made some half decent post moves. I’m grading him on the Sammy curve, but still looks less clueless then I expected.
I’ll save the negatives for later, the Phils have me focussed on the positive.
I’ve seen almost every pre season game. I get MSG New York tv, I guess living in my zip code somehow picks up that station. So, I tend to see all Knicks games as well. They really played well against them but who doesn’t. Andre’s jumper really seems to be improved. Less arc on his shot and he’s not fading away as much.
Speights has been a beast early on. I think he should be starting instead of Dalembert. Bring Sam in for defensive stretches instead of being the focal point taking and delivering passes from the free throw line. Brand does look old. But one thing I do recall in a stat I saw years ago. He is one of the players who gets his shot blocked more often then anyone in the league per attempt I believe. He was up there along with get this name Clarence Weatherspoon.
I hope with a few live games and the consistency of the schedule he finds his game and legs. He really hasn’t played professional basketball for almost 2 years. Let’s hope his game gets better sooner rather than later. Kapono, I’m a fan. Might buy me a #72 jersey.
RRose: How dare you speak ill of the beloved Clarence Weatherspoon!!! (jk of course…but when I first got into the NBA, aside from Chuck, Spoon was always my favorite Sixer).
TK: I think you make a good point about Brand’s “net worth”. We are going to have to remind ourselves of this throughout the season if Brand doesn’t return to ’06 Clippers form (I haven’t seen a preseason game yet, so can only judge by other’s comments on how he’s looked). Even if he’s not the Brand we were expecting, we will have to mentally ignore the fact of how much money he makes and concentrate on the fact he is still a good rebounder, very tough defender and a good shot blocker and improves our team as a whole.
Probably not a good thing that I just wrote about Elton Brand the same comment I usually write about Dalembert. *smacks forehead* This might be a long, frustrating season.
…we cut Christmas? Really? Ed doesn’t see the worth in tossing an extra l00k one year deal to a 6’5 athletic guard that can shoot and defend and see how he improves during the season?
I’m sure it’s a strictly financial move to save a few bucks, but I’d much rather have a solid college player with an NBA body, defense and shooting ability as the 14th man on our bench to have available if any of our wings that can shoot (Kapono, Thad, Carney) get banged up during the season.
Dane T: i dont get it either. its not like he’s even eligible for the veteran’s minimum (or is that just in the NFL). he’s a rookie, his salary would be peanuts.
Please stop talking about the Sixers money as “peanuts.” Remember we aren’t selling out our building. If they are already in the red paying any amount of money for a guy who would never even dress for the game doesn’t make much business or basketball sense. On top of that if an injury does happen you can pick him up at a prorated rate when needed.
On top of that I hate the fact that people assume I guy deserves to be on a roster after he gets cut. He got cut for a reason. Stefanski said if someone really shines or wows us in the context of a 14th man on the roster we would keep him on. Obviously no one did that.
Dave T – I really think you exaggerate and over value Christmas as a player. He has never been consider athletic, his shooting was good in college but doesn’t necessarily translate to the NBA and his ability to defend again is based purely on the college level. I actually didn’t think he projected out to be a good defender in the NBA his foot speed for a guard is just average.
Even for him, he’s much better off going overseas and getting some real game experience on the professional level and trying to come back as a player more ready to contribute to an NBA team.
I think he maybe could be an NBA player but not at all right now.
Analysts have been saying that perhaps Brand should be playing the 5 with the small ball, but where would Dalembert go or will he “go-go”?
This team needs a sure PG somewhere in that rotation, starter or role player. Jrue is too raw and is coughing up turnovers and Lou is not distributing enough. Maybe it is just preseason, but I am just going with what has happened thus far. The Sixers should pick up a Juan Dixon as a backup PG. Maybe Rafer Alston might be cut loose by the Nets with their overcrowded PG slot. A true PG must back up Lou.
Anyway, GO SIXERS and GO PHILLIES!!
well, so much for the pride of Temple. would have been nice to have a former schoolmate sitting on the bench in the Wach.
Dannie: I’m not exactly preaching that Dionte Christmas is the next Allen Iverson here. How am I overrating his skill? The guy was a solid college player that can hit a shot, is a good slasher, and knows how to defend pretty well. Why not take a cheap flyer on a young player that has some talent and potential to make a dent in the league. If it costs a rookie minimum one year contract to hang onto a guy and see how he develops as the year goes on to maybe turn into an asset…what’s the loss?
Considering the fact of how quickly tiny role players (see: Green, Willie…Korver, Kyle) that show ANY talent all the sudden can score a 3-4 million dollar deal and be overpaid to eat up space, I think it’s always important to be able to have extra assets around that provide a similar skill set to replace them with on a whim so that we can let players that don’t deserve that future money walk. Not a huge essential for our team given that Carney/Christmas have similar talents…and Carney is the better player…but I think it’s the correct philosophy to pounce on any potential nugget of talent if the price is about $800k.
Real Rob: I hear what you are saying about a guy like Rafer, but I think signing some kind of vet PG would be only a stop gap solution that really wouldn’t make that big of a difference in the short or long term to be worth the money spent. I used to agree with you…I really wanted a guy like Anthony Carter, Brevin Knight or Earl Watson on our team to give us a solid presence and teach the young pups a trick or two, but in retrospect, I think the Sixers are making the correct decision in throwing Lou and Jrue in the fire together this year to sink or swim…and hope things swing upward from there.
And then there’s the fact that if we wanted a true PG in the first place, one that could defend, had veteran moxy, knew how to run a team, was a pass first guy, can excel in a running game and had an increasingly improving shot…we could have just drafted Ty Lawson. Yup, I’m still fuming about this. And when Lawson averages 5-8 mpg this year with .05 assists per game, people will be saying “See, we told you he was overrated!” All I’ll say is…he’s going to get very spotty minutes under Billups/A Carter for two years…third year he’ll be getting 20 mpg…and when they let Billups walk after his contract is up, they will have a top 10 NBA starting PG in place. When Ed Stefanski realizes Jrue Holiday is, literally, Kenyon Dooling…I will want to watch him bang his forehead on a desk.
Question to anyone that’s seen preseason games: How has Jason Smith looked? We all know he can hit the jumpshot…I’m wondering whether he has looked tough and aggressive in rebounding and on ball defense, or whether he is on the way to becoming the next Brian Cook.
Jason Smith has the heart of a lion ,agressive on both sides of the court, has grood speed for a man his size. Shows know fear, and hustles non stop. I believe he will be with the sixers for many years. Still has alot to learn but he’ll get there in time. I so want Jason Smith’s agressivness and demeanor to rub off on Speight’s.
Dave T – There are TONS of solid college players that aren’t NBA players.
To name a few other undrafted players who were solid college players. I’d probably take McNeal and Matthews over Christmas. Matthews might actually make Utah’s team if he hasn’t already.
My point again is why take a flyer on a guy that didn’t earn the flyer? He had a summer league, training camp and a few preseason games to really show the Sixers he deserved a spot on the roster. He didn’t.
Sorry not a big fan of “flyers.” You earn your spot or you don’t.
Hell, Ime Udoka just got waived and contributed to a good NBA team last year.
Regarding the money, have you ever run a business? You don’t “take flyers” when financially your business isn’t in position to do so. When you are laying off employees and can’t fill your building you don’t have the luxury of taking flyers.
And again the guy doesn’t need to be on the roster getting paid to practice for you to take a flyer on him when you need him. Guys get signed to 10-day contracts all the time when a team gets hit with an injury. Christmas might find himself in the d-league or overseas who knows. But there are plenty of Dionte Christmas’ available if you need one.
Bad news: Dionte Christmas was arrested in North Philly.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Ex-Sixer_Dionte_Christmas_arrested_in_N_Philly.html
FYI….Lakers Denver are on TNT, early fourth quarter Lawson is in just got 2pt.
I caught the second half of that Lakers/Denver game. Lakers look unbelievably good and super deep. They are still the favorite to win it all.
Melo looks like he is on a mission, his offensive game looks great and his board work is strong. Defense still defines his greatness.
With Lawson at this point I am struggling to see when Ty will play in the regular season. He is the third point guard. For stretches of his time on the court he was running along side Anthony Carter and he was the gurad off the ball many times. When Carter checked out and Billups came in they had Ty run the point 100% and Billups at the off guard. I like that look for Denver. Maybe he plays well enough to take minutes from Carter.
Ty will be devastating in pick and roll situations. He sliced through the defense four times (2 made floaters over shot blockers, 1 missed lay-up and one kick out to Billups for an open three).
Three things will define him:
Rob - The bad news is not just that Christmas was arrested, but that he was arrested driving Speights’ car with Speights’ loaded gun under the seat.
I really hope that our heat packing center has a licence for that gun.
Shame about Dionte, people in their position need to be more responsible.
Started a fantasy league since no one else has, if anyone is interested we have 7 more spots available. Draft is on Sunday @ 11 am, send me your email if interested ryannwrk@aol.com.
Greek – Article said Speights’ gun was registered.
It’s great to see that Delonte West’s time at St. Joe’s is still inspiring our city…particularly our future 6’10 20 pt and 10 rebound PF that will be Elton Brand’s replacement in three years. Only good can come of Speights taking diligent notes of Delonte West’s motorcycle joyride and arsenal of weapons, and saying, “That could be me!”
Dannie: I think Ty’s minutes on Denver will be very similar to the arc of Lou William’s minutes his first three years with us. Barely playing his first year…spot minutes the 2nd year…20 mpg the third year and starting to make a real impact…fourth year (and Billups expiring contract year) Ty will be a legit talent in place ready to go there. He really is the perfect pickup for the Six…I mean, Nuggets.
His set shots I don’t think will be a huge issue…he clearly has worked so much on his shot the four years at UNC I can only see it improving as well as his confidence in it…but it’s his 2 point shot I’m worried about. He’s more Andre Iguodala with clanged pull up jumpers from 15-18 feet out then Melo or Durant.
Also, I’m curious…how did Artest look in the triangle? At all comfortable or was he just making Thad plays and taking what was given to him?
check out this link, http://www.atdhe.net. I’m a big soccer fan and watch most matches from overseas on this website. They have links for every sport even tonight’s sixers/nets game. Go phils!
Dave T – Two things.
One, I wasn’t speaking about Lawson’s ability to make open shots. I think he will make wide open kick outs at a decent rate. I am concerned with his ability to get off his shot against NBA caliber players and defense every night.
Two, you are off the mark regarding his 2-point shot, especially his pull-up jumper. In the 2009 point guard class Ty ranked first in a number of key categories, including overall FG% (52%), Points Per Possession [PPP](1.13), pull up jump shot FG% (47%), and %shots he was fouled on (16.1%). His field goal % on 2-point shots was never below 56% in any of his three seasons.
The concern is about how he shoots not the rate at which he makes them. Can he get his shot off on the perimeter when guarded. I don’t think he will have any trouble getting by people or getting to the basket to score.
Antonio Daniels has been waived. Now this could be the veteran necessary to backup Lou. He is Championship material when he won with the Spurs (’99). Plus, he has played in Jordan’s system.
http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/4589879
Ime Udoke trumps any version of Christmas anyday. wow it really is tough economic times. Spurs dont joke.
what is it about athletes and free time that gets them into trouble? all 3 months he;s trying to make a team, nothing, suddenly he;’s released and bam. hope he’s not gonna go Maurice Clarett on me.
Wow, just heard the Dionte Christmas/Speights story. Glad it was registered although that doesn’t really make me feel any better about it.
Dannie, I have a question and I’m interested to see what you and others might think.
The Sixers lost on numerous buzzer beaters last year. (Pacers, Nets, Magic, Spurs, to name a few). Everybody’s take on the situation was that we were a young team that was learning how to finish. On the flip side we won off of 2 buzzer beaters against the Magic in the playoffs. (Hedo also crushed us with a game winner, Game 4).
Do you think we will finish better this season? Will the clutch situations in last year’s playoffs help us close out games and execute better late in the 4th? I think we will be better in these situations. I remember all of us complaining about how all we did was sit around and wait for Iguodala to win the game for us. There weren’t any plays ran, all we did was sit there. I think Eddie Jordan will have us better prepared in late game situations, although it is uncertain how helpful Miller was in the 4th quarter. It seemed to me like he was the one to lead us on the 4th quarter comebacks throughout the season.
Take a look at Ty Lawson’s line last night!
Complacency over short-handed teams is still the Sixers’ bug-a-boo, as well as free throw inconsistencies and turnovers.
Dannie– please keep the team evaluations rolling. I love reading them and putting my intake. Great job as always!
GO SIXERS (and PHILLIES)!!
Looks like Lawson was a steal in the draft at this point. I do like Evans as well in Sacramento. IF Jrue doesn’t pan out, I say fire the entire scouting staff for passing on Ty.
Jrue is a project and is a raw player. He is great to have defensively and has athleticism, but his ball handling and playmaking skills must improve. In fact, our “PGs” must do a better job of distributing. That is why the Sixers must have some sort of veteran PG, whether it be a starter or a role player backing up Lou Williams. I think Antonio Daniels would be just the man to backup Lou. Having a Rafer Alston could possibly put him as the PG and Lou as the SG. Or perhaps Juan Dixon would be the other guy who can backup Lou. I think for most part, it should be and will be a veteran PG backup for Lou like a Daniels or Dixon, guys that have played for EJ. Other than the ball-handling, the turnovers, and the complacency against short handed teams, this team is very enjoyable to watch!!
GO SIXERS!!
Guest – I think too much has been made of the buzzer beaters.
They happen to every team BUT they happen more to mediocre teams that constantly put themselves in situations where one shot can beat them at the end. Sure they can go either way and MAYBE the Sixers got beat more than they should on average. The point is they keep landing in situations like that. Good teams don’t. They blast weak teams and finish games strong. The Sixers didn’t do that well last year and I really don’t see any reason to believe they will this season either.
I think many people are overlooking or flat out ignoring the impact Andre Miller had on wins produced and how that productivity and wins produced will be replaced. If Brand doesn’t make up for much of that we will be in big trouble.
Ryan, count me in if there’s still an opening, tried the e-mail but could not get it to work. Jleachko@netscape.net Thanks
Dannie, if you had a choice between our young core and the Nets, who would you choose? It seems the “building with a center and p.g. first” usually pays dividends down the road and with Lee at the 2 and Douglas-Roberts and T.Williams at the 3 they really can put some athletes on the court. If Jialan can become a decent p.f. they could be good.
Suede – I’d take the Sixers because of Iguodala at this point.
But let’s take a look at it player by player. Now this is not necessarily position-by-position. Like I prefer to compare Iguodala and Harris since those are the two best players at this point.
I don’t think either one has as bright a future as some other young cores around the league simply because they don’t have that one really elite young player that sits above the rest.
Two metrics I like to use to measure whether or not a guy is a franchise type player is win share or wins produced. I think you need a player that is producing AT LEAST 15 wins produced per season and probably like 13 win shares in his prime. I really like the approach David Berri and Basketball Reference took with their advanced metrics. It’s all about winning games so advanced metrics should look to tie player performance to winning games.
Iguodala was at 13.1 wins produced last season and 9.2 win shares last season his best year. Harris was at 8 wins produced and 7.2 win shares last season his best.
Dannie, I agree with all your player comparison!s but I feel p.g. and center positions are more valuable, although center is debateble in today!s N.B.A. . Some preseason numbers to think about;
Spieghts-21.4 min.-7.9 reb.-10th in league
Sammy-20 min.-6.8 reb.-20th in league
Elton-24 min.-6 reb.-31st in league
Jru Holliday-6.6 pts-45% fg-50%3pt.-79%ft.
Would these be good numbers for his rookie year?
Rookie p.g. preseason numbers:
assists-name-ass. to turn.
6.2-Jennings-2.17
6.1-Curry-1.88
4.7-Evans-1.18
4.5-Flynn-1.17
4.3-Teague-2.00
4.1-Maynor-1.94
3.1-Lawson-3.14
2.5-Beaubois-1.5
2.4-Collison-1.7
2.3-Holliday-1.1
Jru definitely needs to get better with his decision making.
Guys, a great article by Kate Fagen in the Phila. Inquire on L.Will. today, a flat out must read. An interesting line from it: Deleo even said the decision to draft Holliday was partly influenced by Holliday!s size and style, meaning he could play alongside Williams, not instead of Williams.
Suede - I think center and point guard are the two toughest positions to fill and if given a choice between equal players I would go with one of those over SG, SF and PF.
But overall performance trumps it all. You’d take LeBron, Wade or Kobe over lesser productive centers and point guards right?