Usually, a guy that has been atop the HR and RBI lists for much of the year is a lock to be in the MVP discussion. However, that hasn’t been the case with Ryan Howard. His low batting average, high strikeouts and sub-par defense have kept his name out of most MVP talk. But his wild September (how about a .917 SLG%) has changed all that. Let there be no debate, we are back in first place because of Ryan Howard. His incredible go-ahead clutch HR off of a very tough LHP last night catapulted him to the front of the discussion. Below are the stats of who I consider to be the top 5 NL MVP candidates.
| BA | OBP% | SLG% | HR | RBI | R | Total Bases | |
| Howard | .249 | .335 | .537 | 45 | 136 | 95 | 309 |
| Pujols | .357 | .461 | .645 | 33 | 101 | 91 | 316 |
| Wright | .298 | .386 | .534 | 31 | 114 | 107 | 309 |
| Delgado | .263 | .345 | .508 | 35 | 104 | 85 | 280 |
| Ramirez | .401 | .481 | .745 | 14 | 44 | 29 | 117 |
You could really make a valid argument for any of these 5 guys, with Manny being the toughest to legitimize. The best player on this list is Albert Pujols, and there is NO debate on that. Like Barry Bonds, his HR and RBI numbers are low because people just don’t pitch to him. Wright and Delgado are ONLY in the mix if the Mets make the playoffs, and I’d personally pick Wright over Delgado, despite Delgado’s several clutch hits this year. Manny has completely turned around the Dodgers and has a Ruth-ian 1.226 OPS during his time there. I just don’t think it’s been long enough to garner the award. Howard has a clear advantage in run production, but has anyone won the MVP with such a low BA? The answer is no, not even close. The lowest BA for an NL MVP was .267, by Marty Marion of the Cardinals in 1946.
Right now, I think Pujols still gets the award. He’s the best player, he has the numbers and his team, though out of the playoff hunt, overachieved the entire year. If Howard keeps up this pace though, getting to 50 HR, 145 RBI and gets his average up to about .255, AND we make the playoffs, then I think he gets it.
Your last sentence says it all Pete, and I agree. I think what he is doing combined with when he is doing it and his already high profile (previous MVP and ROY winner) will win him the award.
If we make the playoffs, Howard will be seen as the guy who carried us in. I’m not saying that is necessarily incorrect and in no way do I want to diminish the significance of what Howard is doing because it is special. However, had Utley and Burrell not been as hot as they were early in the season, when Howard was miserable, or had the pitching not carried the team through the mid-season offensive swoon, when Howard was still struggling, this late season explosion would do nothing more than pile up some eye-popping numbers.
I only bring this up to illustrate that baseball is truly a team game. Howard would have no shot at the MVP if not for what his teammates have done all season. The other side of this is that his team would have no shot at the playoffs without what he is doing now. If the Phils do make it, Howard will be the reason and he deserves the MVP for that.
His BA is gonna be the killer not the Ks. Albert Pujols or Ryan Howard?? Seems like 2006 all over again and if you recall, which I think the people who vote on MVP will, Ryan Howard won even though his team didn’t make the playoffs. There was a huge backlash. Pujols was bitchin in ’06 and thats why I think Pujols is going to win. His BA is ridiculous at .360 to go along with solid HR and RBI numbers. The only way I see Howard getting the MVP is if he keeps going at this pace he is currently on (BA included maybe bring that to .260). It is prolly not too far fetched to make that happen because he dominates the month of September.
Did anyone read USA Today? Well they had an article on the MVP and Howard is no where to be found in the article, but Manny is. Piss poor journalism. More reason to believe that the national media isn’t going Howard’s way on this one. Here is the excerpt:
– The NL’s MVP race is just as unsettled. There are no clear-cut favorites between Carlos Delgado and David Wright of the New York Mets, and Albert Pujols of the St. Louis Cardinals. The sleeper is Manny Ramirez, who is hitting .385 with 14 homers and 41 RBI in six weeks with the first-place Los Angeles Dodgers.
Who has been hotter longer, Ryan or Manny, and who has turned their team around more ,Ryan or Manny, its pretty close on both accounts. I would of voted for Wright if the Mets won the division and they still could.How do Manny!s total numbers look and compare to the others and should that even matter ?
I find it difficult to believe that after last night’s game and the way Howard is killing the ball only 3 people have posted here today. That’s a pretty damning indictment of the Philly fan, IMO. There is a lot of talking when it comes to bashing Howard for his poor play. I guess the same doesn’t hold true when Howard is the one bashing and playing well. Too bad.
Or maybe people have jobs and are busy. Just bustin balls. It has to be between Howard and Pujols as of right now. If he gets to 50 and 150 and above .250 with the Phillies making the playoffs, Howard has to get it. If the Phillies (hope this doesn’t happen) don’t make the playoffs, it’ll be between Pujols and one of the Mets.
BSKI – We just haven’t developed the Phillies following as we have with the Sixers yet. Work in progress. Recliner GM evangelist help though!
Right now Pujols is the guy with everything hinging on Howard’s continued hot streak. It’s about being the most valuable player. I would also take it a step further and say it’s about being the most valuable player at the most critical time as well – heated playoff race. That is were Howard has a clear advantage over the front-runner.
Dannie, I know. It’s just that this is a golden opportunity to talk about some positive stuff with Howard and the Phils. I much prefer that to the more frequent, angst-riddled, long-time suffering, negative talk. Sorry if I came off a bit snippy.
Holy Happ! We got a good start from him tonight. 6 innings, 86 pitches, 3 hits, 1 walk, and no runs is fine with me. I’m thinking he just earned himself another start next Monday against the Braves in Philly. Let’s hope they don’t figure him out the second time around.
Without Pujols, the Cardinals would have the worst record in the Majors. When he was hurt for two weeks, the team hit something like .188. Everyone in that lineup is a better batter because of him. He should already have two more MVPs, including 2006.
If we’re only talking about one half of a good season, then Utley has to be in the discussion. His first half has been as good as Howard’s second half. But we aren’t, of course, because the FULL YEAR matters.
Here’s the problem with not giving it to Pujols this season: we’re going to have seasons like 2003 where A-Rod won it for a last place team because the voters felt like he deserved a make up from a couple years back. Give it to Pujols while he deserves it. Don’t make it like The Departed winning the Oscar to make up for shafting Goodfellas.
Pujols looks like the winner unless Howard can get his average up to .260 with about 50 hr and 150 rbi. The crazy part is he will probably do it with the tear he has been on. If he doesn’t I won’t be upset as long as the Phils make the playoffs.
Sidenote: Pujols deserves an MVP he gets 2nd just about every year. He’s been the best hitter in baseball since 2001.
Pujols doesn’t deserve the MVP because of your first sentence. He deserves it because, as you stated, he’s the best hitter in baseball. The discussion should be, “After Pujols, who should finish second in the MVP vote this season?”
How about this from the Daily News:
Ryan Howard by the Numbers
by Daily News staff
To provide some perspective on Phillies slugger Ryan Howard’s numbers over the last three seasons, consider this list of players who have hit 45 home runs and had 135 RBI, and the number of seasons they have done so (not all consecutively):
8 – Babe Ruth
4 – Lou Gehrig, Sammy Sosa
3 – Ryan Howard, Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Jimmie Foxx
2 – Mark McGwire, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez
1 – Willie Mays, Roger Maris, Hank Greenberg, George Foster, Luis Gonzalez, Johnny Mize, Joe DiMaggio, Orlando Cepeda, Jim Rice, Andres Galarraga, Eddie Mathews, Ernie Banks, Rafael Palmeiro, Harmon Killebrew, Todd Helton, Albert Pujols, Barry Bonds
I’d say that is pretty impressive, especially considering that Howard has done it in consecutive seasons and that he has only played 3 full seasons in the bigs. Hard to do much better than that as far as power numbers go.
great stat bski. ive taken the liberty of editing that list based on steroid use….
8 – Babe Ruth
4 – Lou Gehrig, Sammy Sosa
3 – Ryan Howard, Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Jimmie Foxx
2 – Mark McGwire, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez
1 – Willie Mays, Roger Maris, Hank Greenberg, George Foster, Luis Gonzalez, Johnny Mize, Joe DiMaggio, Orlando Cepeda, Jim Rice, Andres Galarraga, Eddie Mathews, Ernie Banks, Rafael Palmeiro, Harmon Killebrew, Todd Helton, Albert Pujols, Barry Bonds
bski, Interesting list. That Sammy Sosa is tied with Lou Gehrig and Rafael Palmeiro is tied with Willie Mays warns one about adhering to cross-generational standards of measurement. That 15 of the 29 hitters listed played from mid-90s on, in a game with over a century of history, underscores the diluted nature of this post-strike, ‘juiced’, Selig-ed era. Howard is a
big bopper in a time of big bopping.
jjg: I think Howard would be a big bopper in any era.
Morty, To same extent? That CBP left field porch invites an awful lot of pop flies in. And some posit that pitching ain’t what it used to be. And what about the tighter baseballs and maple bats used today?
Pete…Great call. Made me LMAO. Plus it makes Howard’s production that much more impressive.
On an unrelated note…You allotted a good chunk of the last Phils topic to Jamie Moyer. I thought for sure that his less than usual results in his last start were the result of pitching the previous start on 3 days rest. Moyer says no. Check out these quotes from him:
“Feeling-wise? Body-wise? I felt fine,” he said. “Horrible command. Unfortunately, I was struggling to keep my mechanics.”
Pitching coach Rich Dubee thought fatigue might have played some role in Moyer’s struggles. He said he would like Moyer to work a little less in his next bullpen session. Moyer, 45, works terribly hard in his bullpen sessions in between starts, throwing between 65 and 100 pitches.
“He throws more than any guy I’ve been around,” Dubee said. “That’s why he’s still pitching.” (emphasis mine)
“I enjoy it,” said Moyer, who threw roughly 120 pitches in the bullpen in his days with the Baltimore Orioles from 1993 to ’95. “I can throw down there all day. It’s fun.”
Dubee said the average starter might throw 45 to 50 pitches in a bullpen session.
“He’s a perfectionist,” Dubee said. “If it doesn’t feel right, he’s going to stay out there until it does feel right.”
I’ll ask again, how can you not love this guy? The Phils should definitely keep him in the organization and around as many pitchers as possible for as long as he wants to stay in the game, IMO.
Somebody’s a St. Joe’s fan.
JJG…You are dead on about cross-generation comparisons. It is absolutely inappropriate to compare Howard’s numbers with Gehrig’s straight up. That said, there are a few things to consider about what Howard has done (and most likely will continue to do).
1) You certainly can compare Howard to his contemporaries. All of them are playing in the same parks and hitting the same baseballs with the same bats off the same pitchers. Also, there are enough of them on that list to show where he ranks among them.
2) Howard has done this in 3 consecutive years, which also happen to be his first 3 in the league. Add his 88 game 2005 season into the mix and you’re talking about serious, unmatched production over that time period.
3) When you draw a line through the known steroid users, as Pete has done, you eliminate several “boppers” from the list, which lends more validity to the accomplishment and makes the company even more select.
3) If you really want to be more accurate, Howard’s “contemporaries” are only those players who have either come into the league within the last 4 years, or who have remained productive since Howard has entered the league. That leaves you with Ortiz, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Pujols, and probably Helton. I would not count Griffey, as the bulk of his numbers were amassed in what was a prior era relative to Howard. Same goes for Luis Gonzalez.
Looking at it this way, Howard is establishing himself as the pre-eminent slugger among his contemporaries, if he hasn’t done so already.
jjg: Only 4 more homers home vs. away this year, and equal numbers in his monster 2006. I can’t speak about baseballs and bats, but I do think that the lesser quality of pitching must be factored in as well. But If you factor that all in maybe he is a 35-45 hr guy back in the day, instead of a 45-55 hr nowadays. He certainly isn’t on the juice.
And Howard actually hit 1 more hr away than he did at home last year.
Morty, That’s how I see him too, numberwise, if playing in that time. A Stargell or McCovey sort.
I agree with your last sentence, except for the 1st adverb.
Overall homerun #’s have declined the past 2 years which makes Howard’s production all the more impressive. From ’03-06 there were at least 9 players each year with 40+ hr. Last year there were only 5 players and this year Howard is the only one so far.
I believe it’s the result of steroids being harder to use in MLB now. (fear of getting caught) Just think how good Howard’s #’s would look without HR being tainted by steroids. I’ve been down on Howard for his K and BA before but the dude can hit. I hope he wins the MVP
#22 regards #20
at this pace, if he keeps it up and reaches .265, he’s a lock. especially since his hot streak will have coincided with the pennant race… and incidentally, he’s probably batting higher than burrell by now.
JJG…Not a St. Joe’s fan, just a fan of every player who respects the game, goes about his business the right way, and takes nothing for granted. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Moyer and others like him. Guys who are never satisfied. Guys who keep themselves in the best possible shape. Guys who put in the necessary work to be properly prepared. Guys who take their craft seriously.
There are many reasons why Moyer has been able to continue performing at a high level into his mid-40′s. I feel that the other pitchers should be cognizant of that and avail themselves of the years of accumulated knowledge and experience he can impart to them.
bski, No argument with your conclusion - Howard’s in the running for pre-eminent HR slugger of his time. Has also nailed the nomination of “Strikeout King” – 190 & counting. Feast or famine. I’d like to know the comparitive stats of mentioned contemporaries for rbi or run-producing within 2 runs of a deadlocked game, up or down. That would shed light on relative “clutchness” among the current mighty.
bski, Guessed wrong on allegiance – my bad!
Moyer certainly is getting it done but he takes himself (and newfound role of Yoda) a little too seriously – matter of personal taste. Can’t figure out how he continues to confound fairly regularly. Pinpoint placement, most off the plate, and control of tempo with mound pauses are his tricks of the trade, resulting in impatient hitters. You’d think they’d learn to wait him out and smoke some of his 60-80 mph pitches when they finally enter hitting zones.
Did Howard play the season needing major surgery on his elbow? What if Albert ends with a two week tear to go along with Howard’s tear and ends up at .365 with 48 HRs and 115 RBIs? Why isn’t Utley in the discussion? His first half was better than Howard’s second half and his whole season minus the power numbers is still better than Howard’s. The MVP can’t be won in a month and it’d be a disgrace to give it to anyone but Pujols this season.
Sorry, should read 38 HRs, not 48.
JJG…Two things:
First, I read your response to me about Howard, “No argument with your conclusion.”, about 30 minutes ago. I am responding now because I just regained consciousness. Just kidding! I enjoy our discussions and the fact that we view things differently. I agree that “clutchness” would be interesting to track. I’m sure that it is, I just don’t know where to look. I think that Howard would do well on that score because I have heard many times that x number of Howard’s home runs either tie the score or give us the lead. I just can’t tell you what that number is right now.
Second, do you really think that Moyer is too self-important? I don’t think he comes across that way. As far as how he continues to confound hitters, I think it is a combination of several baseball axioms (or old and tired cliches if you prefer).
1) Hitting is all about timing and it’s the pitcher’s job to throw off the hitter’s timing. Moyer is the epitome of this. The differential in velocity between your pitches is more important than the sheer velocity itself. That is what throws off the timing.
2) A corrollary to #1 is that hitting requires balance and the pitcher needs to throw off the hitter’s balance. (Hey, maybe it’s the balance of “The Force”. Maybe Moyer is Yoda. That would explain a lot). Think about it. How many times have you watched a game where they do a replay and freeze a guy’s swing at the point of impact with the ball? ESPN does it a lot. Anyway, what you are looking for is verticality…balance. Moving the ball in and out and up and down changes the hitter’s eye angle and throws off his balance.
All of this leads to 3) Baseball is a game of inches. This applies not only to fair or foul balls and balls just out of the reach of a fielder, but to hitting as well. Throwing off the timing and balance of a hitter causes him to hit it toward the end of the bat or up closer to the handle. It also causes a hitter to either get on top or get underneath the ball.
All of these things are important for Moyer. We know he doesn’t blow anybody away and rack up 10 strikeouts per start. He also doesn’t throw a lot of 1-hitters. Hitters put the ball in play against him. He wins by preventing them from making good contact and on his fielders making plays behind him.
You know all of this stuff. Usually we all just dismiss these sayings as trite, but they really are true. (You know it to be true, JJG…simply trust “The Force”). Pitchers have been trying to do these things, and hitters have been trying not to fall prey to them, since the game began.
None of these things are easy to execute, but they are very effective if you can. Moyer continues to confound hitters and deserves respect for it because he can.
Since we’re on a Howard topic, I just remembered that I read something about him yesterday on mlbtraderumors.com. They have mentioned him several times in connection with the Rockies and a couple times with the Giants. Yesterday they mentioned him in a story about the Yankees. Apparently the Yankees are considering letting Giambi go, in which case they would have interest in Howard. Check it out:
According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post:
The general consensus appears that free agents Bobby Abreu and Jason Giambi will be allowed to leave and that fits a logic: The Yanks are trying to get younger, trying to thin the herd of aging corner outfield/first base/DH types and trying to reduce the payroll where possible.
The Yanks would save more than $25MM by letting the pair leave. But as Sherman notes, they’d lose a couple of their top OBP guys. They’d also face a weak free agent market for first basemen, aside from Mark Teixeira. In the outfield, Xavier Nady could take over in right. Interesting note from Ken Davidoff – he says Giambi’s legacy to the Yankees may be his generosity toward the support staff.
Beyond Teixeira, the Yankees could attempt to trade for Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, or Adam LaRoche. As far as team control, Howard and Fielder have three years, LaRoche one. It’s tough to see the Phillies or Brewers making a deal without Phil Hughes. A couple of other possible trade candidates include Garrett Atkins, Lyle Overbay, Nick Johnson, and Todd Helton.
Howard’s name is being thrown around quite a bit and it’s starting to make me wonder whether there’s anything to all these rumors.
On a side note, what if we let Burrell leave and pick up Abreu as a replacement outfielder? That would be weird, huh? I am not advocating this, BTW.
bski, You provided a good laugh!
And described well the key facets of Moyer’s (and other nibblers’) success. Is Jamie a little self-important in his mien? Yeah, my take. (But I do respect his commitment to playing Spaulding Guide baseball.) How would you feel if you were the pitching coach and saw Hamels and Kendrick (and others) getting regular dugout counsel by a player. Unless Dubee and Moyer have an agreement about it, Jamie’s sage schtick seems a bit overdone and slightly transgressive…especially since he was recently quoted by a bystanding fan as saying to Hamels, “Do, or do not. There is no try.”
He also told Hamels: “Visualize world peace.”
Morty, You misheard. That was, “Visualize hurled peas.”
My mistake.
JJG…Everyone needs a good laugh on a regular basis. Glad I could oblige. That’s an interesting question you raised. I wonder what the story is between Moyer and Dubee. Younger players have been picking the brains of their older teammates forever. I would think that all coaches are aware of it and accept it, even if they do not actively encourage it. I’m sure there have been many older players who have stepped on the toes of their coaches over the years, so I suppose it is possible that Moyer may have a tendency to overstep.
Maybe if the Yoda approach isn’t working Moyer could try the Shaolin monk teaching methods, like in “Kung Fu”
Grasshopper: “Master, how is it that you can throw an 80 mph fastball by a hitter over the inside part of the plate?”
Master: “How is it that you cannot, Grasshopper?”
bski, I like it; that’s a funny exchange. Shaolin, Art, Thelonious and the seashore platter (with fries, parsley and a wedge of lemon) – great Monks I have (now) known.
bski, after I made those predictions I got a little superstitious. I couldn’t shake the feeling that if I commented, the Phils would lose. Plus, I haven’t been able to stop thinking about trying to predict things, so when I get out of this I’ll probably have more to say.
But this winning streak has been a lot of fun. For that 8-7 game on Tuesday, I couldn’t sit down for the last 3 innings, I haven’t done that since I was a kid, I’m starting to get really invested in this team. BTW, who was the 3rd guy with Harry and Whitey in the late 80′s?
I’ll stand by what I said earlier about the Marlins, they’re a really strange and unique franchise, I can’t think of a single analogy to any other team in any other sport. You know how teams sometimes “go for it” and they dole out the cash and get all these good players? I think the Marlins have done that three times, and two of those times they won the world series. How many teams in any sport have done just that and it worked? I don’t remember too many.
But then they break down the team and they somehow manage to get pretty good assets in return. Again, how many teams are able to do that consistently? Would you trust the Phils to do this? BTW, their GM since 2002 has been a guy named Larry Beinfest. Know thy enemy, right? Here’s a little piece about the guy and the Marlins’ situation that I found interesting. Makes you wonder why the Phils can’t do more with a higher payroll, but they ARE in first place.
I’ll continue my pondering of the Marlins’ existence at another time, but regarding the here and now: the Marlins have just run off 8 in a row, and I think they’re gonna hit (like in boxing) the Phils hard; I’d like to see the Phils take it, get back up, and hit right back. GO PHILS!!!
Zack…I believe the 3rd guy you’re looking for would be Andy Musser. He was with them in the 70′s and early 80′s, but I can’t remember when he retired. I think he was still with them then. I’ll do some digging and see if I can confirm but, as far as I can remember, it was Kalas, Ashburn, Wheeler, and Musser for quite a while.
I’ve got to get out the door. I’ll get back to you with a baseball post a little later.
OK Zack, here is everything you could want to know about Andy Musser from baseball-reference.com:
“Andy Musser (born December 28, 1937 in Harrisburg, PA) was a broadcaster for the Philadelphia Phillies from 1976 to 2001.
26 years (1976-2001), all with the Phillies, and retired…The longtime member of the Phillies broadcast booth replaced By Saam, who retired after 38 years of broadcasting in Philadelphia, in 1976… Teamed with Harry Kalas and Richie Ashburn for more than 20 years… Before arriving in Philadelphia, he worked as a member of the KSDO radio staff in San Diego where he broadcast San Diego Chargers’ football games… From 1965-71, he worked at WCAU radio and television in Philadelphia, broadcasting Eagles football and 76ers basketball… Only missed two games while with Phillies because of health, both due to laryngitis… While working for CBS-TV from 1971-74, covered World Series, Super Bowl, a Final Four and the Masters…Graduated from Syracuse University in 1959… Winner of Junior Sportscaster Award in 1956 and, at the age of 18, worked several innings of a Phillies game with Saam and Gene Kelly.”
I can’t believe he was broadcasting Phils games until 2001. Somehow I lost track of him. I guess I listened to a lot fewer games on the radio through the 90′s than I realized.
testing…I’m having difficulty posting again.
Zack, here is everything you need to know about Andy Musser. I had no idea he was broadcasting Phils games until 2001. I guess I really didn’t listen to games on the radio very much throughout the 90′s.
On the baseball side, you are right. The Marlins will be bearing down hard on us this weekend. This 8 game winning streak has put them back in a position to contend. If they can sweep us, they would move to within 2 1/2 games of us. Depending on what the Mets, Astros, and Brewers do, that could give them a shot with 6 games to play.
Last night’s loss has be be pretty devastating for the Brewers. I can’t imagine having a 4 run lead with two outs in the bottom of the 9th and nobody on base and having the other team tie it up. On top of that, the Brewers had 2nd and 3rd with nobody out in the top of the 12th and did not score. Then they lose it in the bottom of the 12th. It really appears as though they are cooked.
This time of year really is a lot of fun, as well as being nerve-wracking. Every game you win makes the next one that much more important. It’s great to see your team step up to the challenge, so far.
That game on Tuesday night really was something. The 9th inning took forever thanks to Mitch Lidge or Brad Williams or whoever it was that tried to nail it down for us. I’m glad he got back to normal last night.
JJG...I just remembered I never got back to you on my affiliation. I am a Temple alumnus, (Fight, fight, fight for the cherry and the white.) School of Pharmacy, class of 1990.
It was absolutely fantastic to follow that 87-88 Owls team up close. I made it to a handful of games at McGonigle that year. Great memories of a special team. I remember us putting a whuppin’ on UNC at Chapel Hill in a nationally televised game (I believe it was on a Sunday).—sorry Dannie! Also, if memory serves, I think it was Duane Causewell who missed a free throw or two late in the game against UNLV, which ended up being our only loss of the season…..until the Duke game….UGH! Anyway, now you know where my heart lies.
BSKI – Sorry about the posting issues. We have our spam filter set to block posts with a lot of links as you can understand we get a lot of crap coming through there. I see your comments I can release one of them if you like.
Dannie…Thanks for letting me know. I will be more careful about the links.
I had a problem a couple months ago with my modem and router, so I thought it was me again. Today I shut everything down and restarted, but I was still having trouble. Anyway, at least I know that it’s on your end this time. No need to release those other posts, since I finally got the one intended for Zack to post.
What a hoot that team was! Will get back to you when I get a chance.
#46 intended for bski
bski, I had a VHS tape of classic Nova-Temple game at McGonigle that year, unfortunately lost track of it. Great team and composite of role players. Too bad Macon peaked in his freshman year. Came in as a fundamentally sound HS All-American (thanks to his Michigan HS coach); Chaney gave him wide offensive berth – Mark fired away, didn’t grow much at Temple, reason for brevity of pro career. Chaney-Maloney-Demopoulos recruiting/coaching team was a good one overall for N. Broad. John took a hit when he lost Jim; program was never same after he was gone.
I’m rootin’ for Golden & football Owls. Consecutive heartbreakers to UConn & Buffalo tough to rebound from, especially with humble history on their backs. Only hope for today is a totally flat, underestimating PSU squad (and career games from key Temple positions) – hardly likely before 100,000 plus in Happy Valley.
JJG…That Owls team was one that is rarely duplicated. It was a true case of synergy, as the sum was unquestionably much more than it’s individual parts. When you take into consideration that they used a 5.5 man rotation, (0.5 for Causewell, who was the only other guy on that team to get any significant time on the floor) what they did is even more remarkable.
That team rarely turned the ball over, rarely missed a free throw, rarely was in the wrong spot defensively, rarely got in foul trouble, and rarely took a bad shot, which explains why they rarely lost. Each member of the starting five knew who they were and where they fit. As a result, they were a tight unit on the floor.
I watched that Temple-Nova game with a bunch of my college roommates. That was the Doug West-led Wildcats.
As far as Macon, I think we all thought he was better than he really was. That’s what I’m talking about when I refer to how difficult it is to tease out who are the players that make the others around them better vs who is being made better by who surrounds them. Macon was definitely more the latter. He really benefitted from having Howard Evans, and to a lesser extent Vreeswyck. I really think the biggest problem was that, after Evans left, Macon was switched to the point in his sophomore year. That, in combination with the departure of Vrees and Perry, left him as the focal point of every opposing defense. He had to carry much more of the load and he just wasn’t up to the task.
Anyway, it was a lot of fun, until that Duke game. Didn’t see that coming at all. Tough way to go out, but that’s the NCAA tournament. One bad game and the dream is over.