It’s NBA draft day! One of my favorite of the year.
First off, if you haven’t read guest poster Zach Oakland’s write-ups on Chris Singleton, Donatas Motiejunas, Ben Hansbrough and Malcolm Thomas I highly suggest you do so.
Second, this looks like it’s going to be a crazy draft, and there will probably be many trades that will hijack the whole thing. There are some rumors that one of those trades will involve Andre Igoudala, but with the ownership change coming up, I’m beginning to doubt that will actually happen.
Here is how I see the draft shaking out. I’ll have comments at the end, and then a list of players I would have interest in in the 2nd round.
- Utah seems to be where this draft starts – and I think they take Kanter over Knight
- I have Jimmer going #7 to the Kings – which would be way too high for him to go
- I have Kemba dropping (someone has to) – If Toronto and Sacramento pass on him, he could really fall
- Sixers’ fans cry out in agony as BISMACK! goes to the Rockets. Of all the storylines (barring a trade) for the Sixers tonight, Bismack falling to us is the most intriguing. Apparently there is some concern about his back now, maybe that could push him down to #16?
- Yes, I still have us taking Nikola Vucevic. I just feel that’s the way we are going. He’s not a bad pick. Still young, huge and relatively skilled. I still would prefer Faried, but would be OK with Markieff or Hamilton as well. Not really a fan of Donatas as there are TONS of questions about his defense and drive.
- After us – it’s anyone’s guess
Second Round Targets
I think there are a lot of good targets in the 2nd round this year. Here are some I would like to see the Sixers grab…
Jeremy Tyler/JaJuan Johnson - 2 guys I have in the 1st round here, but not everyone does. Would probably have to trade up in 2nd round to get either.
Jon Leuer – A 7-footer who can shoot, is smart, and is a decent athlete. He’s my first choice.
Malcolm Lee – Defensive-minded UCLA PG would make a nice back-up for Jrue
Josh Selby – Lots of talent, would be a project with big upside.
Trey Thompkins – A PF who projected as a lottery pick before this season. Impressed the Sixers in his workout.
Cory Joseph – Another defensive minded PG. He came out too early, but could be developed into a solid player.
Ben Hansbrough – Homer
Isaiah Thomas – Super athletic, super quick, but just 5’10”
So feel free to use this post to talk about anything and everything you hear today about the Sixers’ draft.
Who are your targets?
Do you think Dre gets traded?
I hope he gets traded. I love him as a player but the Sixers probably aren’t going to contend with him and if you’re not going to be good, then you better be entertaining/interesting.
While both interest and knowledge of the NBA and it’s draft escape me, just a quick note to acknowledge Zack for his seemingly excellent effort on adding great depth to the Recliner site.
Ken, I appreciate this. I try to give a different take and be different somehow because there are a lot of voices out there, and when I’m done, honestly, I don’t know, I’m pretty hard on myself. But thanks.
If Iggy is still on this team at midnight, I will cut my wrist, I want them to either do the Kaman deal as long as it includes Al Amin or if Minnesota is dumb enough to take him and our 16 for 2 I will jump for joy at us getting Williams. Either way he has to go and I think he all but sealed his fate when he failed to show for the end of season interview.
This was posted today on CSNPhilly….It seems really off base, I’m surprised that it even got up on the web:
http://www.csnphilly.com/06/23/11/The-good-bad-and-ugly-of-Sixers-drafts-s/news_sixers.html?blockID=536935&feedID=704
That list is a joke.
The argument for the Iguodala pick being a better pick than the Iverson is that it wasn’t a bad pick?
Larry Hughes and Evan Turner are two of the worst draft picks this franchise has ever made? Are you kidding me? Oh, but it was the Paul Pierce/Dirk Nowitzki draft. Bite me. In that paragraph he all but guarantees a title if we had picked one of those guys. Dirk’s been on a pretty damn good team almost his whole career and he just got his ring this year. It took Pierce until 2008 to win a ring and he needed KG, Ray Allen and Rondo to get it done. You really think Dirk would be the same Hall of Fame player he is today if he had to wear Sixers blue along with Allen Iverson for 13 years? You think a guy like Dirk is going to win you a ring when he has to stand around and watch Allen Iverson go one-on-one over and over and over again?
They took Hughes because they already had their star and needed a guy to play some occasional defense and feed the ball to Iverson. Great pick? Certainly not. Would I have rather had Dirk or Pierce, of course. 4th worst pick in Franchise history? Give me a break.
And part of his argument for making ET 5th is that his summer and preseasons weren’t as good as his less than stellar rookie season, which by the way won’t be near as good as his 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th…. you get the point.
That piece was posted at noon. I’ll bet you he had the idea for as he falling asleep last night.
Vuveic and Markief Morris are two players im dreading… neither get me excited. Vuveic might turn out to be a better player then Hawes.. but hes not a great rebounder and tends to take jumpshots.. remind you of someone? Normally im all over the draft becuase im a college basketball nut who loves the nba but ive been real busy with my internship. Here are some of my thoughts on the draft….
There are two ways to look at a draft… you either go for the guys that contribute right away and take someone who you view as a safe pick (if there is such a thing) or you can take a high risk high reward player. I tend to think that when your in the middle of the lottery you go with the high risk high reward player. My philosophy has changed due to the Sixers drafting tendincies.. for instance the year we took Holliday I was all about selecting Ty Lawson becaus of his rediclous speed and passing abilties. Obvisouly Lawsons a nice player but Holiday clearly has more potential and the higher ceiling of the two. Thats why I would pass up on guys like the Morris twins and Vuvecic… they can be nice players but I don’t see anything to get me excited.
If I had to rank my picks in order (being realistic of course)
1. Tristian Thompson- The couple times he went up against the Morris twins it seemed obvious to me that he would be the better NBA player. He was a beat as Findlay prep, a high school basketball powerhouse and has a lot of untapped potential. In just his one year of college bball his numbers were just as good if not better then the Morris twins (juniors).He’s not especially tall but hes got all the skills you could ask for and has a work ethic unlike our boy Speights. Hes got an array of post moves and is a terrific offensive rebounder. If he slips which is possible we gotta take him.
2. Dontas Motiejunas- Along with Biyombo this is the absoulete definition of a high risk high reward pick. Motiejunas is a tall lanky european who apperently isn’t real interested in defense which scares me a little bit. With that being said out of all the foreign player he seems to be by far the most skilled offensively and maybe Collins is just the coach who can get him to rebound and play a little bit of defense. Out of all the canidates he has the most star potential.
3. Jordan Hamilton This of course only makes sense if Iguodola is gone (pray to god he is). To me he is the most skilled scorer in the draft. A lot of people argue Brooks is the best scorer but he was pretty inifecient and was more of a chucker then anynthing. Hes got great size and would have a height advantage on most 2′s and 3′s in the league. He can score in a number of differnet ways.. hes not just a jumpshooter he can take it to the rim as well sorta like Turner.
T-4. Faried and Biyombo- I have these guys at the same slot because I would be happy with either of them and their situations are somewhat similar. Huge questions marks on the offensive end but you know Faried is gonna rebound and get after it on the board and Biyombo is an extremely good defensive player already but inept on offense.
From ESPN:
UPDATE: Rod Thorn is shopping Iguodala and that includes talking to the Lakers about the small forward, reports Sam Amick of SI.com
Amick writes: “League sources said that a deal with the Lakers involving Lamar Odom has been discussed recently. While it’s unclear whether the deal has real potential or is still alive, it’s yet another sign that the Sixers are determined to land an impact player while improving their salary-cap situation in any trade for their second-leading scorer and top defender.”
I really like Lamar Odom; and if Thorn can find a way to get Shannon Brown in on the deal (since the Lakers just offered that package to GSW and got turned down) I would pull the trigger. Because you need to move Igyy and you have to make that deal if it’s on the table.
My only concern is what happens to Odom when he’s not only taken off the bench (and the beach) but made to be the best player on a playoff team in a city with a rough (read: stupid) media. I somehow doubt Khloe would dig it here?
That’s a hell of a starting 5:
Jrue, Brown, Thad, EB, Odom. With ET, Lou and Hawes coming off the bench.
I don’t know how that deal would work though, with Brown in it. I think with his deal expiring, they’d have to wait until July and the league will likely be locked out then. Not sure though, don’t know the ins and outs of the CBA all that well.
#1 prediction: Kyrie Irving
Irving or Williams. Whomever they take will likely mean that some one else is on their way out. Baron Davis, Varejao respectively. I fully expect this to make little to no effect.
To the people who don’t like Markieff Morris – why?
I’m underwhelmed by him, too, I’m not sure why, can’t put a finger on it. He just seems like an NBA 8th man to me, nothing special, but maybe I’m not seeing something.
#2 prediction: Enes Kanter
This draft is already boring. Let’s see some trades folks.
I just thought that didn’t make sense for them…
Here’s their best lineup
Kevin Love – Derrick Williams – Michael Beasley – Ricky Rubio – mediocre shooting guard
I guess it’s not so bad…
boring, yes… looks like this draft might be a predictable one
so prediction: Utah takes Brandon Knight next
Stuart Scott offering Derrick Williams’ NFL potential (via John Gruden). Dynamite stuff, Stuart. Keeping me so uselessly informed.
Al Jefferson and Derrick Favors already in Utah. Now Kanter. Either the philosophy of taking the best player or thoughts of a trade. If they keep him, that’s a big front line, I mean huge.
Utah’s big!
Kanter, Jefferson, Favors, Millsap, Okur… Not sure that’s where the NBA is going. But they can bring Favors and Kanter along more slowly.
What’s not surprising is that Utah takes a white guy…
Pete’s 3 for 3, I think he goes 4 for 4 and the Cavs take Jonas
I neglected to mention Milsap and Okur. My bad, Milsap’s a pro. Scary front line. Protect those six feet in front of the rim.
Tristian Thomas at #4?
That’s a bit of a reach. Not going to make my socks roll up and down but it mixes things up a little bit, I’ll take it.
ok, this is getting fun!
where does Jonas go… I think the Kings, because Toronto can’t pass up Brandon Knight
Canadians playing basketball amuses me for some reason. Sort of like cats playing keyboard.
Ken Berger of CBS Sports
Portland and Denver supposedly swapping picks 21 and 22 and point guards, Andre Miller and Ray Felton. I’m going to underestimate Miller once again and say this is a bad move for Denver.
I guess the Cavs read my post
Hey Dirk talks funny, you talk funny. Does that inspire you? God, this coverage is awful.
ok, I obviously don’t know what the hell i’m talking about today, so here’s my next wrong pick: Washington takes Klay Thompson
Sacramento lucks out and gets Brandon Knight
Zack, are you saying that Knight is now going to drop to 10? Charlotte got the 7 pick from the Kings presumably right before the draft.
The word on the street all along was that the Wiz were going with Vesely and the shake ups apparently didn’t sway their conviction. If Knight makes it past the next two or three teams you have to think something’s up.
frick, i forgot about that bucks bobcats kings trade
i think charlotte takes kawhi leonard
yes
yes ye syes
i called it!
well, not in the comments here, but in my Chris Singleton post, I thought Rich Cho would have them take Bismack
I read that Joe Dumars really likes Kemba Walker, but I think they should take Jimmer here. But I predict they take Kemba.
I think Kemba is the pick the Sixers need to make this year (but I’m of course probably wrong). If the Kings don’t take him at 10, I think you have to make a deal with GSW.
i totally forgot brandon knight was still available
i need to go home
Kemba’s like 5’2″ and his suit is too small. Kids these days.
Singleton’s still available. I’ll stick with Pete, and call Vucevic.
Let’s hope we’ve got ourselves a true Center. ESPN didn’t interview him. Does he not speak English?
I can’t wait for Knick fans to hate this pick and then horribly overrate him a month into his rookie season.
That pick was horrific, atrocious, pathetic, indefensible, he looks like a Spencer Hawes clone… someone somewhere please tell me why this isnt a terrible pick with Singleton still on the board.
Wow, Shumpert. Big reach. I wonder if this is an F.U. from Donnie Walsh on his way out.
Big and Slow is what this guys seems to be. On a team that expects to run? Are they changing to a half court offense?
That pick was horrific, atrocious, pathetic, indefensible…>>
1 million percent agree…
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this be part of some sort of trade…
Would have preferred a defensive minded player…
Anything out there that can convince me he’s not just another Spencer Hawes?
I’m overreacting, but like RRose said, are we changing our style of play? I guess there’s a long-term plan here, I guess we’re looking at not signing Spencer Hawes after next season, so I guess you plug Vucevic in then. It’s just such a boring pick. What’s this guy’s upside?
Pick sucked – Sixers out thinking themselves. Basically just drafted a Spencer Hawes like player that could be a slightly better rebounder and slightly better overall offensive player.
I have no clue what the direction of the team is at this point. Clearly needed front court defense and a legit shooter guard with range. Got neither with their pick and there were options to address those needs.
Who do you want the Sixers to take at 50?
Maybe we’ll get lucky and Jeremy Tyler will be available at 50.
I would take either Jeremy Tyler or Josh Selby. Im so pissed right now… We took a shitty prospect and Singler went to the Pistons ughhh
Jeremy Tyler to the Bobcats… The Bobcats are absolutely nailing this draft. A+++++ for the new GM.
I didn’t see too many of the projected 2nd rounders. I want Ben Hansbrough or Malcolm Thomas.
Agree with Chuck on Josh Selby. I also like Scotty Thompson.
No parts of Selby.
Is Lawrence Moten still on the board?
Why Dannie.. he doesn’t fit a need but hes unquestionably the most talented player left
I’d be OK with Selby. Was a big-time talent in HS. Might as well swing for the fences here.
I don’t like him as a player at all. Won’t play a minute on the Sixers and is basically Jrue Holiday at best so it would be a waste – I’d only draft him if the plan is to try and trade him for a need.
Sixers are seriously a joke…. a complete joke… we take 1 step foward … 10 steps back. Of course Ed Snider has to make all of the flyers moves the day of the draft. We take some Hawes clone scrub then we take Lavoy Allen because he went to Temple. Becuase we have to take every god damn Temple player whether their good or not. Its really becoming a joke. At least we trade the cancer that is Andre Iguodola and give time to Evan Turner… o wait no we didn’t. Im just gonna pretend tonight didnt happen… what a fucking joke.
By the way Temples my favorite big 5 team.. Im not a temple hater at all.. but my god what are we a charity case… it’s really a joke
Who do you guys think is most responsible for the Sixers picks? I’m wondering if D Collins has the most say, or if Stefanski does w/ Snyder picking and choosing who he likes.
Could Lavoy have been a non drafted player signed? I mean couldn’t they have gotten a shooter and looked to bring Lavoy along after the draft? I’m a temple grad and I couldn’t see him as the 50th best player available to be drafted. So who draft was this Thorn’s or Stefanski? Can’t tell us that the looming lockout prevented them from making moves. Other teams are busy at the office, The Sixers have bankers hours.
I didnt think allen would be drafted.
No one did!
Cause it shouldn’t have happened
Pick up Ben Hansbrough!
should’ve drafted Ben Hansbrough. Summer League has been canceled due to potential lockout so there will be no Sixers team in Vegas or Orlando this year. ugh. Can’t even look forward to some potential signings of guys they should have drafted. Why do I continue to follow this team… Notice how this draft show was void of GM’s/Coaches doing interviews about their picks.
How is that Thorn and Stefanski can’t find their way to trade one of the most desirable players in the league.
I’m going to divert my disappointment from tonight.
Ron Artest is a douchebag: http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6698183
Look, I usually just creep around 76ers threads and make snarky comments here and there, but I have to say that there is a lot of whining from a bunch of amateur college basketball IQs around this forum. Honestly, who cares who the Sixers take at #50? Would this guy have a chance to make any sort of contribution? Would he beat out a guy like Craig Brackins who can’t sniff the rotation? So they took a poor man’s Marc Karcher, so what? It wouldn’t matter who they took from all of the stiffs that you mention you “wish” they took at #50. It is a meaningless place to draft, they should just have one round and let the guys drafted in the second round just sign whereever they want. Its similar to being a 6th or 7th round pick in the NFL.
And as far as complaining about Vucevic, none of you haven seen him play. I appreciate the guy that wrote up the pre-draft analysis and I would be way to lazy to do that, but even those were extremely flawed and used highlights and small sample sizes to evaluate talent (e.g. Chris Singleton’s game vs VCU. If you know anything about that situation, Singleton had been hurt and was barely part of FSU’s run to capture a bid to the NCAAs and contributed very little at the end of the season, including the tourney). No mention of that in the write up.
At the end of the day, you guys have every right to complain that you don’t like supporting mediocrity. Nobody does. But to come in and whine about draft picks on draft night is senseless and inane.
\longest comment I’ve ever posted on this site
And if Lavoy Allen becomes the next Malik Rose, I’ll take it.
I agree with you to an extent.
I think Vucevic could be an OK player, but looking at his measurements, numbers and some video, he looks like a stiff who can shoot. Maybe he’s be the first un-athletic, 7-foot, white dude who can’t play defense to suceed in this league (seriously, he might) – but my general rule of thumb is that if you are 7-feet tall, and you aren’t going in the lottery – you are going to suck. Also – we needed interior defense, not offense.
I’m not FURIOUS about the pick – I said in my write-up on Faried that I thought Vucevic could be better than Spencer Hawes, so that’s atleast an upgrade at the center position. And as you said, we are not scouts (though I think many have seen him play or at least watched tape), so he could be much better for all we know.
As for the 50th pick – I love Temple and love Lavoy Allen, but that seemed like a wasted pick to give a local kid a chance. Allen is not an NBA player in my opinion, and I think that there were some possibilities (David Lighty, Ben Hansbrough, Isaiah Thomas) there that could be NBA players.
Aside from the players. What I’m ACTUALLY pissed off about is how clueless the Sixers from office appeared to be in this draft.
Consider…
If you don’t care who the team takes at #50 why care to make a post about it? The people who post probably care because its the team they follow. There are only so many players on a team so why not fill that team out with the best possible player you can? silly thought. This team has not one HOF potential player, no go to player and a $44 million dollar player who doesn’t want to be here.
So, if I’m picking players and I’m no scout or talent evaluator I would hope to get the best players I can. Injuries do happen and when they do I want someone who can actually play on the court. It amazes me that Snider could be so involved making a splash trade and signing on NBA draft night to upstage his so called team. But for years he’s never upstaged anyone with Sixers picks or trades to really gain media attention. Can’t say he doesn’t love only the Flyers now.
After reading about Vucevic it seems he has a high I.Q. on offense and defense and with the lack of quality centers in the league now he could be an effective player. Is a M.Okur up side reachable? I compared him to R. Nesterovic predraft but he could be better.
I, like Zack, like Malcolm Thomas [Taj Gibson?] and hope the sixers bring him in. I hope this pick keeps Iggy here and gives Jrue, he and Evan another year to play together. Collins seemed to get Hawes at times to play quality defense and this kid seems to be a higher effort kid than Hawes so hopefully he can be a lane clogger at least.
Hawes in college: 14.9pts/game, 6.7 boards. only had three double-doubles in his career. He’ 7’1″ & weighs 245.
Vucevic: 17.1/10.3. He’s just under 7′ & weights 260.
Stu – I completely agree. I people are uneccessarily bashing the Sixers here, making fun of a player NONE OF US HAS SEEN PLAY. Not sure why anyone is bashing this pick because, what, they’ve seen some youtube clips? Repeat: no one has seen this guy play in an actual game, which is the only way true talent evaluation can happen, not from watching layups lines and dunks in manipulative editing-magic clips that highlight a player’s strengths and show not one iota of a true facet of a person’s game.
As far as I’m concerned, by FAR our biggest concern going into the future was obtaining size/rebounding/shot blocking. Picking at #16, there were no true, legit options from American NCAA system that filled those needs. Kenneth Faried looks like he’s going to be a real nice player, but I still see him more as a bit part, Rony Turiaf-like piece that would provide some nice rotation minutes, but at 6’7?…he’s a bench player that could come in and get some nice rebounds/defensive moments. Jon Lauer, Jeremy Tyler and Jordan Williams were the only other real consequential frontcourt players in terms of actual SIZE that could offer some sort of true skill at the PF/C position, and it is pretty universally agreed upon that those three would be big reaches at #16.
So what do we do? We grabbed:
-A European prospect that is a big, 260 lb, beefy center, that maybe can actually turn into something.
-A talented 6’9 PF that has legitimate skill that I actually think is a nice bargain given that we’re picking him at 50. I’d far rather take a risky 2nd pick on a big man with size and skill, and bank on the possibility that he might pull his head out of his ass and utilize his talent to be the player he can be.
Talented swingmen we could have looked at:
-Jordan Hamilton
-Chris Singleton.
…Singleton is a defense only athlete with raw offensive skill that I think is really going to be exposed at the NBA level. Hamilton is a guy I really like, and probably the guy I would have drafted because of his size/shooting/scoring ability. But we do have Iguodala/Meeks/Lou/Turner in place, s it’s not like he would have gotten any burn in his first year. Although if we want to trade Iguodala, then things shift obviously.
I think we came out of the draft with two half-decent, maybe even fully decent, prospects at the C and PF positions that both have legit size. One is a complete unknown, so lets not act as if we know his game. The other has talent and never allowed it to blossom fully in college. I can’t complain in a shitty draft like this.
Three 2nd round gems I love:
-Darius Morris – Michigan. This guy is a point guard, has great court vision and love how he can run a half court set. If he had a semblence of a shot, he would be a top 10 pick.
-Charles Jenkins – Hofstra. Living in DC, we have the Colonial Athletic Association channell here because of George Mason…so weirdly I got some chances to see Hofstra games. This kid…can…BALL. Ideal 6th man combo-guard role, just a freaking burst of speed, athleticism, shooting, and moxy.
-Jon Laeur – Wisconsin. Think he kinda flew under the radar in the draft, he’s not some big white stiff, the guy has a pretty classic big man post game, good rebounder. He could earn spot 10-15 mpg in the NBA on the right team.
Good stuff, Dave T. Even if we are in the minority I think its important to add our perspective.
Iman Shumpert went the following pick, now if the Sixers grabbed him at 16 then folks here would have a legitmate gripe!
Agreed Stu!
This is more or less what i was driving at with my much shorter post that just had numbers in it - unlike Hawes, vuvecic has shown that he can rebound the ball, and he shouldn’t be as much of stringbean. It was a weak draft, and pretty much everyone in it was likely to be a role player. May as well take a flier on a guy with true center size & who can grab some boards. 6’9″, 6’8″ energy guys are much easier to come by…
I’m not really saying it was a great pick, but it seems like a bit of an overreaction to call it a horrible pick.
This pick is getting everybody nervous cause he’s a white 7 footer, he is getting comparisons to Spencer Hawes, which is unfair. If Spencer was not on the leam last year I dont people would be as nervous as they seem. I dont know how soft he is never seen him play, he can shoot outside but looks like he has a back to the basket game as well, which Spencer did not demonstrate on any level, also he averaged almost 11 rebounds a game in college which I dont think Spencer did at any level either. His measurements are a lot like Kanter’s who no one has really seen play, I like the fact he has played in europe and the US plus he is only 20. Euro fundamentals and US swag. He is not super athletic but doesnt look as slow and lumbering as Roy Hibbert, I think we have to give this a chance they drafted a big time need for this team, and time will tell if it was the right pick.
I do think that this team is in turmoil behind the scenes I think that Stefanski came out and had a small presser before they even did the 50th pick, to me meaning there was no doubt the guy they were gonna take was gonna be there, it was a total throw away pick, Lavoy aint makin this team, if they like him they coulda picked him up as an undrafted free agent.
I think that the impending sale of the team and looming lockout kept this team from doing any moves. I guess we are gonna be stuck with Iggy for the remainder of this contract if the lockout ends with a hard salary cap who is gonna take him off our hands than. His body is starting to break down (knagging injuries, plus toll of alot of mins during the course of his career) and his contract will keep him from being traded.
Overall I was disapointed by Iggy not getting traded not by our pick. The team has done pretty well recently in the middle of the 1st round. Still no one to take a shot at the end of games or get a bucket or get to the line to end an opposing teams run.
Stu, I did the Singleton write-up, and I see your point in not judging based on only one game, but you could’ve learned a lot about Evan Turner from his one NCAA game in 2010 and I wanted to see if that could be applied to other players. Back to Singleton, I didn’t say we definitely have to take this guy. If he were drafted I thought he would be great in a small-ball attack, something the Sixers were successful at doing last year. I also said in the comments that I think I’m overreacting to the Vucevic pick, I’ll wait a year like I did with Speights because I haven’t seen the guy play, it’s not like we drafted Rafael Araujo.
But what I’m not comfortable with is how Vucevic fits into the Sixers’ style of play. Also, unless he’s a once a generation player like Shaq, you don’t need a big, skilled plodder at the 5 in today’s NBA to be a contender, you need a defense, toughness and rebounding there, in my opinion. I just listened to two Stefanski video clips (ESPN & Tom Moore), and he says he fills a need. Yes, he fills a need, but is that the most important need? I think the Sixers offense is going to get better though – I think he’s going to be able to finish plays that Iguodala, Holiday and Turner create for him. I think he’ll be okay and be better than Hawes.
About the 2nd round, about 28 of the guys drafted end up doing squat, but that still leaves 2 guys who can contribute and I think it’s worth the effort to try to get one of those 2 guys, like Jodie Meeks.
* * *
suede, I’m not sure if I hope Vucevic keeps Iggy here, but I do hope it keeps us from making the Chris Kaman trade; but I do like how Iguodala and Turner played together in the playoffs (I still can’t figure Jrue out). You’ve slowly gotten me into college basketball, I’m going to watch a lot more of it next year because I wish I’d seen a lot more of these prospects. For example, I really wish I’d gotten to see how Derrick Williams basically went from scrub to the 2nd pick in the draft – how does that happen?
you need a defense, toughness and rebounding…
This guy grabbed 10+ boards/ game. Just saying…
utilize his talent to be the player he [Lavoy Allen] can be.>>
Dave T, serious question, what can Lavoy Allen be? I didn’t get to see him play but scouting reports aren’t glowing.
Zack – What can Lavoy Allen be? Probably not much at all. But I’m fine with taking a zero risk flyer on a 6’9 PF that has shown flashes of being a solid scorer/rebounder and even sometimes defender at the college level. Late 2nd round picks are great because they offer zero risk trials on high risk/reward players. We need size, Lavoy Allen has size and talent that looked great in his sohpomore and much of his junior year. Senior year he dipped. Many college players have dipped or not panned out to expectation but succeed in the NBA. At #50, why not try him out and hope to get lucky?
One thing I disagree with that you mention though is this idea of “style” that a center could bring our athletic Sixers team. Let’s suppose our first non-xenophobic pick actually turns out to be half decent. It sounds like you are arguing it would be a negative to have a big, beefy, plodding center on a team that is largely athletic, likes to run fast breaks, and has a lot of speed. I hear ya. But to counter you:
a. A legit big man (and by legit, I don’t mean all star, I mean someone that is a decent enough PF/C you can start to provide enough offense/defense worthy of playing him 30 mpg) always, helps, any team. Just because he’s slow doesn’t mean he would bog down our entire team system. Having a post option that is big, can pass, and maybe even heaven fucking forbid rotate well on defense to provide an intimidating body in the paint is only a plus, and would be something far superior to anything Hawes offers at the moment.
b. You are identifying the Sixers current personel (Iggy, Brand, Lou, Thad, Turner, etc) as what we’ll be going into the future with…this might very well not be the case. Two years from now, Brand will be gone. Iguodala will likely be traded, we have no idea how Turner will turn out. We have one player that we are banking on to be a top 3 person on our team that we’ll resign to a big long contract provided he keeps improving, and his name is Jrue Holiday. Other than that, and yes I include Thad, I really don’t think the Sixers have a true direction going forward. Players dictate (or should dictate) the type of offense a team runs…we’re going to have a team that looks real different two years from now.
c. About Chris Singleton…I think his “comp” in the NBA, at least a fair one, is Jared Jeffries, defensively. A defensive stud that doesn’t give you much on offense, that you wouldn’t trust much on offense, but is very athletic and can defend multiple positions with a strong but wirey frame.
…and maybe even heaven fucking forbid rotate well on defense>>
ha
I really don’t think the Sixers have a true direction going forward. Players dictate (or should dictate) the type of offense a team runs…we’re going to have a team that looks real different two years from now.>>
This is less a counter-argument than an extension of what you’re talking about – I think two or three players dictate the type of team you build, not the entire roster considered as a whole. Right now, I think the Sixers are centered around Iguodala and Thad’s skills for good reason – the team has been most successful with them. To me, the Sixers have two choices: a) reconstruct the team through getting rid of those two and building a team centered around other players, or b) don’t ignore the success that Iguodala and Thad have brought us, especially with Iguodala as the 3 and Thad as the 4, and get players to complement that core.
I’m not sure what I’d do. The more I think about it, the more I want to keep Iguodala because I’m terrified of a post-Iguodala world where the Sixers aren’t as good. A Vucevic might not take too much off the table, but someone more defensive-minded would bring more to the table if you’ve got Iguodala and Thad. When you say the team lacks a true direction, I disagree in that they definitely have a successful style of play, but I also kind of agree in that with their current roster they are not contenders or have the upside to be (I think that’s what you mean) so there should definitely be player movment. So it’s not such a disaster that we got someone like Vucevic who might not fit with the Sixers’ style (in my opinion) but might have a lot of value when playing with another core of good players.
Zack – All good points, and you are right in the unspoken extension of my post in that I feel we have, right now as constructed, zero upside to be Eastern Conference contenders. If you look across NBA rosters, I think we have one of the most uniquely, and complexly (in the negative way) constructed teams. We’re not quite “young” in the Clippers, Warriors, TWolves, Washington and Cleveland mold, aka: a near entire team built of youthful players growing together, because we have Brand, Iguodala, Nocioni, and honestly Lou Williams while age-wise young, I consider to be an NBA vet and we kinda know what he is now (a shoot first scorer with the handle of a PG that has horrendous shot selection, is a mediocre 3 point shooter, doesn’t play defense well for his body type). And we are obviously not “old” and filled with veterans either, given the Jrue, Thad, Speights, Turner, Meeks combo on our team.
The type of veteran + youth hybrid team CAN work I think, but only when you have dominant veteran players at the all star level, ages 27-33, that have the leadership to keep a team in line…with added youth around them under 25 years old that can stay together and grow, and ideally a young guy that has huge talent at 19-22, that by the team the other guys get old and are shipped off, can replace their all star production (Indiana in the mid-00′s, before the melee, was a brilliant example of this, when in the middle of the Reggie/Mark Jackson/J-Rose/Davis bro’s run, Donnie Walsh slowly acquired Jermaine O’Neal, Al Harrington, Ron Artest, and Jonathan Bender. The transition was perfect, and they were Eastern Conf contenders until the brawl happened).
But…we have the worst of three worlds:
a. Our older vets are good/solid, but only borderline-allstar type of players (although Iguodala would be a lock on a good team as the 3rd banana)
b. Our younger players, while having talent (Jrue, Thad, and hopefully Turner)…are not guys that have jaw dropping talent that can light the NBA landscape on fire like a Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon, John Wall, Stephen Curry, Kevin Love type.
c. The players we do have that are good don’t match well together (Turner + Iguodala = versatile but no shooting; Thad + Iguodala ditto, and no big presence, Thad + Turner who even knows, etc).
Meshing good-but-not-great vets and good-but-not-great youth builds you a team that is just that: good but not great. It’s why I think we have three general options moving forward, and all have to do with thinking about how we can shape our roster to contend , and not just make the playoffs, for the future:
1. Identify Jrue + Iguodala as our long term pieces going forward (aka: extending Iguodala again, for hopefully less money)…and package Thad (who is not and will never be an effective long term starting NBA PF…he’s great in spurts, but you can’t win with him in that role) with Lou Williams for a better vet piece, or a good piece and good draft pick. Or keep Thad and package Turner with Lou or Speights for other young players or picks.
2. Peg Jrue + Thad as long term pieces, trade Iguodala to get some kind of legit size, or legit scorer in return…and throw Thad the SF spot, seeing if he can/can’t be effective as a 30-35 mpg player at that position and blossom…or, again, trade Turner + Lou or Turner + Speights for a better picks/piece.
3. Peg Jrue + Turner as “keepers”…which means Iguodala definitely has to be traded, as he and Turner cannot coexist, because having a versatile SG/SF combo where neither can shoot would kill any team.
We have such a hodgepodge mess of how our pieces, assets and keepers work together. I’m still on record and hold to it that I think Thad is the guy we should trade. IMO, he’ll never amount to anything better than an Al Harrington type…a hybrid SF/PF that can put up points in bunches, with a better motor…that will never be a good fit for a starter. I think his stock is as high as it’ll get, and instead of overpaying 8+ million for a role player, I think we should ship him off now and see if there’s a worthy trade partner for him.
Not the greatest draft in the world, but the Sixers drafted what was necessary– SIZE. Next, the team still has to answer some more questions: who will be the next owner?, will the Sixers get a go-to guy?, and will Iguodala be traded? (maybe for that go-to guy) Once the Sixers answer that, this team will be doing some great things and perhaps reach that 50 win plateau if there is a season.
GO SIXERS!!
I wonder what what will happen with Ben Hansbrough?
I don’t know much about college players these says, but in regards to peoples opinions about the 76ers first round pick, here is an interesting quote from D Collins. Seems like he may have had a lot of say in the selection. (From Philly.com)
“I watched every offensive possession he had the whole year,” Collins said. “I don’t know how many there was, but I watched every time he caught the ball, and he presents a target. He catches it; you can cut off of him, he finds the open man; he passes well out of the double-team. He passed out lefthanded; he passed out righthanded; he turns and faces. If you step back, he can hit that shot. He has the ability to dribble and get a bump and still make that midrange shot. We think we’re going to be better playing through the post this year, which is a plus.”
Joop – Nice quote from Doug, he sounds pretty genuine there.
On another note, I’m feeling like an asshat right now, because I have just ranted in three consecutive lengthy posts about how Vucevic is a foreign player, hence the “NO ONE HAS SEEN HIM PLAY!)…completely forgetting he’s been at USC the past three years, and that he wasn’t playing in the Serbian/Croatian leagues.
As B. Simmons says, “I will now light myself on fire,” and am muting myself for the next day on any talk about Vucevic, as I didn’t watch a single Pac-10 game all of last year.
The market for Spieghts may be impoving and 2 teams come to mind; N. Orleans [D.West opting out] and Charlotte [lack of scorers] both could use him and a return of D.J. White or Poindexter or cash or future #2′s would be welcome, in my opinion.
Suede – Like you’re thinking with New Orleans there, although they don’t really have any players we should be interested in.
If I was David West, and had put in 6 loyal years with one team, battled through injuries, only to have 5-8 seed playoff team year to year that had no real shot of contention, and with CP3 likely gone eventually…I’d be speeding my way straight to the Indiana Pacers and that young nucleus to be their starting PF, and banking in on the cap space they have.
Granger-West-Hibbert, with Hansbrough off the bench, is a nice frontcourt to go to battle with.
In acquiring JaJuan Johnson, Celtics made a move that’ll likely pay dividends for the next decade. In acquiring Nikola Vucevic, Sixers made a move that has me double clutching before every pronunciation.
Honestly the more I think about it this was an awful pick. Usually in these situations you find yourself maybe overracting to a pick because your in the prisoner of a moment type of situation but this was a flat out terrible pick. Im not sure what im more pissed off about… the fact that we took this goon or the fact that we didn’t move the cancer Iggy or trade Speights to acquire some type of pick. I mean seriosuly talk about a lack of creativity…. anyone could have pulled this joke of a draft off. I told myself given how the Sixers performed last year and seem to be making changes in the positive direction the only way I would be pissed off is we drafted Vuvecic and Lavoy Allen. To me that would have been the least creative and low ceiling draft we could have put together. Well that exactly what we do because Collins for some reason fell in love with this guy and we have an infatuation we every single player that has Temple written across his chest.
The thing thats so frustrating to me is the fact they were considering moving up for this guy. Really? Here im thinking the guys in the front office have figured out how to run an orginization finally then Thorn makes this statement. His game is eerly similar to Spencer Hawes.. he loves the jumpshot has 0 ahtletic ability can’t play defense. When it comes to the Lavoy Allen pick I acutally like him a lot and have met him in person a few times. My problem is why does it seem as though we have some obligation to select Temple players. I wouls have taken Rick Jackson from the Cuse… double double machiene… one of the best most consitent big men in the Big East… forced double teams. ughhhhh
Vucevic averaged a double-double and led the Pac-10 in rebounding…I would say that is pretty consistent. He is no Spencer Hawes clone.
Vucevic bears a resemblance to the late 6’9″ Ted Cassidy, aka “Lurch” of The Addams Family. Ted averaged 17 pts and 10 rbs in his only year of playing C for Stetson College in Florida. The weirdest thing is, when Vucevic returned Collins’ call on draft night, his first words were: “You rang?” (Cousin Itt could not be reached for comment.)
I am pretty sure that I could average 17 and 10 at Stetson College.
Only if you averaged 17 and 10 at Haverford College.
So what is he Stu? You gotta remeber Hawes was only in college for one year… what did Vuvecics numbers look like after his frosh year at USC?
..I am hoping Thorn’s limited history of drafting foreign players that are players continues with this pick. Krstic and Nochbar were solid if not spectacular pros. I don’t mind the pick at #16 but wanted Montiejunis [more upside?] instead.
Neither you nor I will know until he becomes part of the rotation. Time will tell, I’m not going to trash the pick though as part of a very weak draft class. Again, Iman Shumpert went next…would you rather have him?
Nope.. id rather have Singlelton, Monteijunis, Faried, Jordan Hamilton
4 guys who you likely watched 16 total minutes of playing time during their careers and a few grainy YouTube clips up until now.
http://www.csnphilly.com/07/07/11/Report-Sixers-sale-to-occur-within-next-/news_sixers.html?blockID=539803&feedID=704
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-07/apollo-director-joshua-harris-is-said-near-an-agreement-to-buy-nba-s-76ers.html
A couple stories about the sale and it’s increasing imminence. Really just one story about it and another reporting on the first story.
Snider’s going to retain full ownership of the WFC (which I expected) and also has the TV rights locked up until 2029 (which is a little surprising). That’s allegedly killing the value of the franchise which looks like $280M (as opposed the GSW sale for $450M). That’s more than 15 seasons on TV money the new owners aren’t going to see a penny of. At a time when the league is locked because nobody can make a profit why the hell would someone want to but a team knowing you’re not going to be seeing any income from your TV deal? And furthermore, how the hell are they going to run the club and manage payroll without that sort of flexibility.
Does this mean the new guys are going to gut the team and try to bottom out in order to save money and try their luck landing a #1 pick? Nobody on this mediocre team is marketable. How else are they going to make money.
This guy also just bought the rights to American Idol. I don’t like the idea of the guy that owns American Idol owning my team. I don’t like that at all.
Sorry for all the typos. Just a little exhausted.
Well, Cavan reporting that stefanski is on the way out, and the sale ain’t even official yet. Looks like the new owner is ready to shake things up
Fagan I meant. Stupid auto correct
Can anyone tell me a little about Jason Levien and what he did with Sacramento as the assistant GM during his time there? Could he be better than Stefanski? Still, I like the fact that this organization is going to be operated under some hopefully and truly committed guys. Snider is better off with the Flyers and does an awesome job with helping that team (Paul Holgrem and Ed Snider equal boldness for that team). I hope the Sixers will be committed and be able to compete often like the Flyers do year after year. Time for the Sixers to complete the cycle of Philly Greatness and Relevance!
GO SIXERS!! GO PHILLY SPORTS!
Has Dannie retired from posting?