The Sixers played hard. They played smart. They shot the ball well. They didn’t turn it over too much. They played pretty good defense. That was all I asked in my pregame post. That they come out against a good team and show up and play a complete game. I think the Sixers did that. The result: a 12-point loss to the second best team in the NBA. All I can say is good after the game was good try. I wasn’t mad or anything. The Lakers were just better. That kind of loss is much easier to swallow then what we have delt with in the 10 previous losses.
Sixers vs. Lakers Game Notes
The Sixers scored 102 points and shot 48.8% from the field. They were only slightly below average at 33.3% from three and bad from the foul line at 65%. They only had 12 turnovers to the Lakers’ 16. They were out-rebounded by only 4 but had three more offensive rebounds and 12 more shot attempts. That is a pretty solid performance. The type of performance that allows us to properly evaluate this team and its talent.
Apparently Elton Brand suffered from a strained hamstring and didn’t play in the 4th quarter or the final 5 minutes of the game. I knew something was up because at no point did Mo even consider putting him in, and his demeanor on the bench and standing outside the huddle was that of a guy that was shut down for the night. Not that he wasn’t engaged, just that I could tell he wasn’t going back into the game. But that had very little to do with the outcome of the game. Brand was completely ineffective against the length of the Lakers’ front court. All his inside shots were highly contested, and his mid-range jumpers had long arms contesting as well.
I really don’t think there is much to analyze; the Lakers are just better. They have more talent up and down their line up. They have an offensive system that is fluid and are well equiped at every position to execute it at a high level. Oh, and they have Kobe.
The Sixers played decent defense, and the Lakers still shot 58%. Kobe made some tough shots and had to fight for the ball when Ivey was defending him. He made shot after shot and really made it look easier than it was.
Lou Williams found his jumper tonight after a rocky start in which he turned the ball over on consecutive possessions. Mo gave him another chance, and he made the most of it, hitting 3 triples. Ivey was at the table to check in for Lou, and he promptly came around a high ball screen and nailed a three. Mo ended up calling Ivey back to the bench, and Lou finished the game.
Andre Miller ate up Derrick Fisher all game. 11-21 from the field, 8 boards, 5 dimes, 2 steals, only 1 turnover and 26 points. That is a very good game.
Andre Iguodala played well also. His defense on Kobe was good. And he played within himself on offense. 9-16 from the field, 5 boards, 5 dimes, 2 steals, 2 turnovers and 19 points. I will take that every game if he can pull it off.
Thad finished with a decent game as well. 17 points, 8 boards, one ugly three off the glass and only 1 turnover on 50% shooting. He had his inexperienced moments with out-of-control shots, but he is coming along just fine. At least he isn’t going stretches of games not shooting the ball well or scoring efficiently. Good sign for the future.
Samuel Dalembert played an excellent game in my opinion. I thought when he was in the game Bynum struggled offensively. He contested his jump hook, and it really bothered Andrew. He also did a fine job on Gasol as well. He made a nice turnaround jumper on the baseline and had 3 assists, should have been 4. He had two perfect bounce passes from the post; one was converted the other was not. 11 points, 8 boards. Good game, Sammy. That is all we need from him every night.
I like Royal Ivey on defense. He is pesky and has a good defensive motor. He did a hell of a job denying Kobe the ball in the first half. He got in the passing lanes, and he double-teams with very active hands, knocking balls loose and bothering the post player. Too bad he can’t shoot worth a lick otherwise he would be a perfect back-up point guard for this team.
Do you see what happened, guys? Our core players, with the exception of Brand, played strong games. And the Sixers still lost by 12. All that says to me is they aren’t good enough. They don’t have elite talent to compete with Boston or the Lakers. And I don’t know about you, but I am not getting emotionally involved just for a playoff series win or two. There is a lot invested in the current roster for that to be the expectation, and I think that is about all we can expect from this team as currently assembled. Kudos for a well-played game, but it is really disturbing to me that in reality that is probably the best the Sixers can do if faced with an elite team in a playoff series. Sure they could win one or two but certainly not an entire series.
Everyone is talking about oh they can get to 45-48 wins – so what. What is that? Since when is the goal being slightly above .500? Am I being harsh? Yup, I probably am but it’s reality, and I don’t live in a fantasy world. I am glad they looked better tonight and gave a solid effort for 4 quarters in a loss. I need to see them string together a few more wins like that for me to really be happy with this team. Hopefully on Friday they play equally as well and get their best win of the season on Friday against the Pistons.
Could I change my negative tune? Absolutely but I would need to see consistency AND improvement. Until them I am really afraid this team just isn’t good enough as currently assembled.
Sorry for the doom and gloom, but it was depressing on my drive home thinking about how the effort and relatively clean game played by the Sixers was good enough for a double digit loss at home.
You know what, guys, help me out. Am I being too harsh? If so cheer me up with your view on the overall outlook for the remainder of the season and years with the guys we currently have.
Random Stuff from the Game
- The crowd was loudest for the Lakers. At first I thought it was just Kobe lovers, but the cheers were louder on positive Laker plays then Sixers. Just sad. Did you guys feel that watching on TV?
- The loudest cheer for the home team came when they showed Jimmy Rollins on the big screen. Sad.
- Why is it that the only guys that go through a pregame workout are Iguodala and Lou Williams? And it is pretty light. Every other team I have watched has multiple players out shooting and working on post and perimeter moves before the game with assistant coaches. The Lakers had Josh Powell, Chris Mihm and Yue Sun working out pretty hard, and it was obvious that the assistant coaches were teaching as well. Wouldn’t Sammy benefit from that? Most certainly Speights would. Just an observation.
- The Sixers dancers had two new routines one of which was to the popular Beyonce song “Single Ladies” where they did some of Beyonce’s moves from the video. I must say they were very good on both occasions.
That’s all I got for the night. Really looking for to watching A.I. against the Sixers on Friday.
Next game: Friday against Allen Iverson and the Detroit Pistons
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{ 62 comments… read them below or add one }
you say “Our core players with the exception of Brand played strong games. And the Sixers still lost by 12.” well that’s just last year’s team. the only player we added to the core is Brand. if last year’s team loses to this year’s Lakers (one of the most complete teams in recent history) by 12, that doesn’t concern me. with Brand, we are going to be an improved team once this adjustment period is over. really, i think that’s pretty great for us fans; a team that improves every year. with thad only 20 years old, speights 21, lou will 22, and iguodala 24, i think it’s okay not to be expecting this team to shoot the moon.
that’s not to imply that the sixers should be satisfied and not trying to improve all the time. and this game, like every game, should help us improve. at least, that’s what i tell myself.
I think you hit it on the head, but like you said they played a solid game against a superior opponent for the first time this year and lost. I want to see how these kind of games play out over the course of the season before I say this team isn’t good enough to beat a top team in a playoff series. Hopefully this is the kind of game we will start to expect from them, with a different result of course.
On a positive note, Iguodala seems as if he is getting back to the Andre we expect to see, but he is still settling for the jumper too often. This game was easier to swallow. I hoped for a win, but expected a loss, they played hard and smart. Against 20 of the other teams this would have been an easy W.
I wonder what would have happened had the Lakers beat the Pacers? (How they would approach the game)
Dannie, Thad was going through a workout pregame when they went to the court for an interview on Comcast. My biggest concern, the one guy who is the leader of this team, again, is A.Miller and if he goes we are in trouble without a player at least at his level. He is the only guy that can dominate his position, Elton just isn!t big or athletic enough.
I don’t want my ‘no J’ lead guard getting revved up (for a change) and shooting 47 times in 2 games to try to individually beat opponent because he was embarrassed by one and esteems the other. Regular readiness, better defense, better distribution would be improvements
to Miller’s game.
Lou Williams heated up in 4th when Laker defense was a rumor, game was in hand. It’s when he works best. But bringing FG% up to 35% can’t do anything but help.
Elton “Discount” Brand was 1-7 in 25 min for 3 pts & 5 rbs; sat out
4th Q, hampered by ego strain, having been hamstrung by better bigs all night. Missed dunk, down 5, hurt the most.
Iguodala’s & Young’s footwork on drives sometimes resembles Warner Bros.’ “Roadrunner” - - they get mercy from refs occasionally on blatant traveling violations. I know, not all that unusual in NBA.
But both need “voltage regulators” to better visit basket regularly …
otherwise known as poise and a pivot foot.
Some effort shown last night, yet D gave up 114. Lakers are strong O team but if countered by intensified D, not that strong.
Aside from big minutes given to Miller, Iguodala, Brand & Young every game, Cheeks’ substitutions are unpredictable, as opposed to unassailable. Have no confidence in his ability to counter the league’s better coaches.
8 nd 11. With ES watching in concern, ready but hesitantly willing to spring to shake-up of some kind, I presume, as his surprisingly drab concoction wows no one.
@Dannie: jeez “All that says to me is they aren’t good enough. They don’t have elite talent to compete with Boston or the Lakers. And I don’t know about you, but I am not getting emotionally involved just for a playoff series win or two”- u didnt have to put it like that. i thought i was the only one giving up on ‘em. we got FANS right here, u can’t say that!! even if it is true. so really then, where do we go from here? trade miller or dalembert? ben gordon? wallace? draft? forget the trade speculation; I just think the players WE HAVE ALREADY need to get better. there’s no quick fix. they’re not doing that now, but heck rooting for ‘em, don’t hurt!
ed stefanski must be scratching whatever hairs he’s got on his head. that said good game tonite. iggy too. if there was only some way we could have kobe watching in the stands every sixers game…
Jkay – That is how I have been feeling all season. That was my disappointing post that was really just one game pre-mature. I have been waiting until that 20-game point before I let it out.
I really don’t like all the doom and gloom but I am not a crazed fan that is blinded to reality so it’s hard for me to sugar coat stuff.
I have really only wrote game posts (which is my least favorite thing to write about) because I was waiting for them to do show me something positive I could grab a hold of. And at best they have gave me quarters here and there to grab on. That isn’t enough to get me optimistic about there prospects going forward.
Now that we are finally at the 20 game mark I will have a lot more posts about what the hell is going on, what we should do and less about specific games.
OK, at the risk of sounding stupid or overly simplistic, every time I think about our offensive struggles I keep coming back to our poor outside shooting as the main culprit. (I am obviously talking about our season up to this point, not last night’s game)
Regardless of whether we try to run the pick and roll, the 3-man weave, or whatever, we continue to struggle because nobody has to fear being burned by our outside shooting. No team in the league thinks we can make enough outside shots to beat them, and rightly so.
On the pick and roll, everybody goes under the screen because there is no need to fight over the top to stay with a shooter. As a result, driving lanes (and passing lanes and cutting lanes) are clogged up. The defense can constantly sag and collapse. This ends up forcing us to shoot more jumpers. I really believe this is why Andre Miller is shooting so much recently. This is why Brand shoots the 15 footer almost exclusively anymore. This is also why Lou keeps gunning. He is trying to break out of his shooting funk and he keeps finding himself wide open (again, rightly so).
Furthermore, I believe that the disparity in quality outside shooting between us and other teams is what’s really hurting us on both sides of the floor. Think about it. We usually do a pretty good job on Dwight Howard, so why do we lose to Orlando? Turkoglu, Lewis, Nelson (how about Brian Cook as well) killing us with 3’s, that’s how. We can easily extend this explanation out to almost every team in the league. Other teams have shooters that we must respect and guard, which in turn opens up other things for them. This is where our discussions about our poor defensive rotations and slow closeouts spring from. We do not have the consistent outside shooting to catch anyone in these types of defensive lapses and make it easier for us on the offensive end.
Think about what would happen if we did. Driving lanes would open up. Brand would get double teamed less (at least somewhat) giving him more room to operate. Passing lanes would open up. Cutting lanes would open up. As teams are forced to rotate, close out, and cover our shooters, other guys would automatically open up. None of these things are happening with enough regularity to allow us to play consistent (and winning) offense, and it shows.
How we go about fixing this is another long discussion. Whether free agency (if we have the money), a trade, the draft, or improved shooting from who we already have (let’s throw a few mil at Mark Price and make him our team’s shooting instructor exclusively), or some combination of these is the answer, we need to find the answer to this in order to really move forward as a team.
BSKI – I already have a post on the perimeter shooting because I think there is a slight misconception and a complete unknown about this. More to come maybe this weekend.
Phil Jackson is one heck of a coach that acknowledges the little details even in a win–that is what a Hall of Fame coach is all about.
http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/postgame_quotes_081203.html
Phil Jackson:
On tonight’s performance
I think we stopped their runs which was important. I’m still not happy with our defense and our turnovers which were quite obvious in the fourth quarter. We didn’t corral that young kid Williams (Lou); he had a real good quarter [fourth]. We shot the ball well and we are what we are I guess tonight; a good offensive team.
On the team’s offensive success tonight
If Kobe (Bryant) shoots the ball that well we’re going to have a good winning percentage because he’s going to take most of the shots. That’s a big thing.
On his team’s communication
I think the communication is what we’re going to have to work with. These offensives are geared to handle the type of defense we’re running. We’re just a little bit late; too many lay ups and too many points in the paint.
Wow, Phil Jackson acknowledging “that Lou kid” is detail right there. The Lakers were sloppy especially in the 2nd half of the game and Phil realizes that his team cannot play like that against a team like the Boston Celtics (coming soon This Christmas on ABC). He is that ”Jedi” type of coach playing those Jedi Mind Tricks– you know the Alec Guiness type, not Ewan McGregor. Rarely does he call timeouts, but when he does (which he did call a lot of them), his teams respond greatly. Also, it was interesting that he decided to play mind games with Dalembert by calling a timeout during his second free throw attempt, which Sammy calmly hit and made (great, decent game for him without the “silly,cheap” fouls). That is why he is the Zen Master. Get a load of his motivational tactics: Interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Jackson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRW5j5hX4LM
Anyway, on with the (11-6) Detroit Pistons (mediocre since the Iverson trade at 7-6). This will be a game between two mediocre teams that could hopefully meet each other again as a #4 and #5 seed. Both teams will be fighting hard for those seeds, since clearly Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando are playing an incredible, Western Conference style of basketball and domination, these two teams will be fighting long and hard this season. The Iverson-Pistons have beaten the GREAT teams (except for Boston), but have lost to some “INFERIOR” teams (except for the Knicks). So it is a matter of seeing which team will show up for both the Sixers and the Pistons.
Allen Iverson has been decent, but has a couple of single digit games (resulting in losses). Overall, he plays with heart as always. And then, Iverson has never changed when it comes to “practice”.
Richard Hamilton has not been the same since the trade, having to play even quicker than ever, something even a non-stop player like him can’t handle.
Tayshaun Prince has been struggling as well since the trade, to one point where he was bench in the second half of the game against the Blazers in a loss for no reason. The game was close. The Pistons really need him to step it up offensively if they want to become elite again and fast.
Rasheed has been Rasheed where the technicals either help him or hurt him. He has come through in times, like the win at San Antonio.
McDyess will reunite with the Pistons December 7th. Even with him, their bench is still thin and okay.
I wonder how Iggy will play against the Pistons, even though the team is different. I hope Brand can play on Friday, this is his type of team to play against!!
In the words of Mason, “LET’S PLAY SOME BASKETBALL!!”
GO SIXERS AND KEEP UP THE ENERGY!!!
Good. Looking forward to it.
Did anyone see what NBA.com has about the Sixers?
http://www.nba.com/2008/news/features/john_schuhmann/12/04/eastinsider120408/index.html
Anyway, on to Detroit. This will be a matchup of two inconsistent teams that are trying to get used to the new players they have and to play alongside with them. The Pistons are (11-6), but (7-6) since Iverson played with them. They have beaten the great teams, but lost to some “weak” teams. That is inconsistent.
Iverson is Iverson, except for a couple of games where he has scored only in single digits. Of course, being late for practice is no surprise. But, he still shows heart nevertheless. And the Sixers to some degree miss him. The crowds at Wachovia were there when he was there. Hopefully, this upcoming offseason, he could sign for the minimum if he wants.
Richard Hamilton has been struggling since Iverson joined the team. He has to player even faster than he normally plays, which is ironic considering that he is a nonstop player (ala Reggie Miller, Ray Allen).
Tayshaun Prince has been struggling as well and needs to step it up in order for Detroit to be a contender in the East.
Rasheed Wallace is Rasheed. Technicals either help him or hurt him. He still settles for jump shots, when he should post up.
These two teams could see each other in the 09 Playoffs in the 1st Round, but who will be the 4th seed and the 5th seed? Clearly, Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando are the superior teams in the East and look like Western Conference contenders based on those dominating looking records.
This game should be interesting!
GO SIXERS!! KEEP UP THE ENERGY!! (WE NEED IT!)
According to ComcastSportsNet, Brand will most likely miss Friday’s game!
http://csnphilly.com/pages/landing_homepage/?Brand-to-Miss-Fridays-Game-in-Detroit=1&blockID=19607&feedID=717
This will test our depth: expect Reggie Evans, Theo Ratliff, Marresse Speights, and Donyell Marshall to get more minutes! This is a glass half-full approach!
I agree with everything you guys have had to say. I really liked the way the team looked tonight and im glad to see the runs they made at the Lakers. They cut the lead down to single digits multiple times in the second half, but Kobe was just too much for them to handle down the stretch.
One thing about Iguodala. Does anyone agree that one of the reasons his jumper has been going in more, is because he is getting into more of a rhythm on offense? It seems like to me, that he is getting touches early and often and goes strong for the whole first half. It also seems that when he spreads his shots out throughout the whole game, shooting 10 or so shots, that his shooting % goes down.
‘Glass shattered’ approach: Sixers are an ugly duckling 8-11 team with 3 tough contests staring them in the face. The mirror doesn’t lie. They might win 1; 2 is a slim possibility; 3 would be miraculous, unless the anti-Brand faction (whomever that might include) plays out of its collective mind, temporarily, to prove that “we can win without him.”
JJG....You just made me feel like being the Devil’s advocate. What happens if we do win without Brand? What if we decide to play fast and loose, stop over thinking and deferring, and actually win a few as a result? I don’t think it will happen. Also, I don’t think Brand will miss enough games to cast any doubt about playing without him. He may miss a game or two and, even if we win them, that’s not enough to draw any conclusions. However, what if Brand does miss a few games and we do win without him? Just thinking about this makes me uneasy.
bski That’s a good question, but it’s above my pay grade. Let’s let Stefanski and Cheeks finesse that situation should it occur, which is unlikely. With the big investment made in Brand, I don’t see any latitude. He’s their main big, for better or for worse. What would you do as GM or head coach if Sixers lit their torch without ‘im?
Jumpin, I expect Reggie to start and Marreese in his normal off the bench role. Curious to see if Marshall gets a chance but would think more Thad at the 3 is the reality.
jjg.…No idea what I’d do. Let’s hope we never need to debate about it.
I think we are the Diet Coke of the Lakers, minus the fizz in a guy like Kobe.
If you put Iggy, Young, Lou, Dalembert, Speights, Ivey in the Lakers roster, they would look great on that team.
I wonder, does Mo know how to operate the Triangle Offense? A little triangle offense wouldn’t hurt. Something to keep in mind in the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense
http://www.nba.com/step_up/lakers_diagram.html
Rob – Your enthusiasm in nice but I have no clue what you are talking about. We had this conversation before when JJG brought it up. I don’t think any of the current Sixers “look great” on the current Lakers team. And I don’t think the current Sixers are equipped to run the triangle offense effectively. Mainly because I don’t think we have the shooters in the starting line up or proficient enough passers in the front court.
great post bski, way to simplify things.
Ed Stefanski; “you’ll never hear the word patience from my mouth.” he’s smart.
mo is coaching on borrowed time.
wonder what detroit is trying to do, are they going to build on the rest of the players (prince, hamilton)? do they think thats good enough?
i guess what rob looks at is potential. Perhaps thats what we’ve all been looking at during the offseason and got disillusioned now. conventional wisdom dictates that potential = skill but guess you can’t really call it. its just the human element; what separates Kobe Bryant from Andre Iguodala and Brandon Roy from Lou Williams.
I would like to apolagize to all my friends in Greece who I wasted hours of there time telling them that the sixers were the 2nd best team in the east! I mentioned the triangle the other day. With brand, speights, and thad we have the block and free throw line covered but like dannie said we need some shooters to make it work. Cheeks is terrible, just bring in Jordan and lets see what happens.
Jkay – Big pet peeve of mine that I have mentioned before is this whole potential stuff. It’s nice, but it seems like that is all people seem to care about now. It seems to have a higher value than proven production and present skill that is already developed. And I just keep asking why? The number simply don’t support it. Tons and tons of players have potential that never pan out or develop into real skill. Only a small percentage ever do, so why would you bank so heavily on that when talking about the future when in reality it’s unlikely to be fulfilled. And even if it is reached the chance of it being fulfilled to the degree people make it out to be is even less likely.
That is why you keep seeing me write that you should pay and draft for skill, not just athleticism and you shouldn’t pay a really high premium for potential. It is certainly a risk averse philosophy but I rather pay for a guy like a Kobe Bryant or LeBron out of high school that already proved they have a wide range of championship level skill who also have tremendous potential. Stop paying for athletes with very little skill and potential that rarely turns into production. Potential doesn’t win championships.
That is why championships are won by teams with guys with a proven high skill level that equates to tons of production on a consistent basis. If you look at the championship teams’ big time impact players they weren’t like Tyrus Thomas. A player drafted high solely on potential and 4 NCAA tournament games. They were guys that showed a relatively high level of skill and had a lot of production at whatever level they were coming from. Did they also have potential? Absolutely, but that is the bonus. No one knew MJ would be MJ, but everyone knew he would be very very good. Same with Kobe, KG, Shaq and the list goes on and on. You can’t say with a high level of certainty that guys like Tyrus Thomas will be very very good. It’s a toss up. People seem to love these toss up players. I don’t.
Rant over…
Right now Thaddeus Young has shown a great improvement in bankable skill so I can buy his potential. What will potentially hold him back is his passive, non-aggressive nature.
Dannie, one guy that works on the Lakers is Iggy. Jackson really likes Ariza as an athlete that defends and basically picks up the scraps when Koby and company are done feeding. Iggy at the three for them I think is a good fit.
Suede - I don’t dispute that but do you understand the significance of what you just wrote?
You basically just said Andre Igoudala the Sixers 2nd best (some would argue best) player, the $80M man is Trevor Ariza on a championship caliber team. He is not a starter and not even the best small forward on the team (Odom is better). He is at best the 5th best player on the team and I would argue Jordan Farmer is better making him the 6th best player in my mind.
Step back and look at what you just wrote in the context I just gave and come to the realization I have been living with for quite a while now about the future of the Sixers as currently assembled. That is why this post was so doom and gloom.
I think with the one and done college careers the scouts tend to go out on a limb more Dannie because they can!t sometimes go off what a kid did in high school because of the level of competition. I think their [scouts] percentage of being right probably has gone down drastically in the last 10 years.
jkay Potential gets ya fired. How’s that for simplifying things?
Dannie, can!t argue that point but what gave me hope was how the Celts won basically with defense against the Lakers last year, but with Bynum that could change. My hope was we would become a great cohesive defensive team but that might not be the case. Jumpin and I have discussed our 2001 team and how athletically this team is probably better but they were coached into what I wish we could become. That is why I keep mentioning Thebedeoux because IF we want to compete with what we have it has to be done down the defensive end.
Suede - I would certainly agree with that.
But I think it is often pretty clear when the biggest reason a guy is dominating is because he is bigger, faster, stronger, can jump higher etc. Compared to a guy that is smarter, a real leader not just a leader because he is the best player on the team, can shoot better and with range, handle the ball better, pass better, makes consistently good decisions and you can insert any other basketball related skill that isn’t associated with jumping higher and running faster and being taller.
I’d also dig as much as I can into whether a guy is a pure talent that doesn’t have to work as hard to dominate his level and knows it, so therefore he doesn’t. Verses a guy that is a gym rat and hard worker with great talent.
This is the one area I really wish I could get on the inside and see. How teams evaluate players and how scouts do their job. I would love to be involved in that aspect of the game.
Dannie, right now I think Iggy is our 3rd best player behind Elton and A.Miller but the problem is our 2 best players are Elton and A.Miller.
bski That was a helluva Devil’s advocacy. You postulated. I responded. You reply (approximately) “no debate now, if ever.”
Tricky, tricky.
Its to the point where they are interviewing their history teacher and guidence counselers to see what makes them tick. Hansbrough is a good example. There will be 10 guys taken ahead of him that haven!t accomplished anything. Your an A.C.C. guy right, what is your read on him?
Suede – I agree 100% with that and winning with defense. But let’s not forget that you still gotta put the ball in the hole. And this team right now is not very good at doing that on a consistent basis. To put it in defensive terms, this team is rather easy to defend.
That 2001 team locked up and was extremely cohesive on defense. But on the other end guys got a lot of easy shots in their comfort zone because A.I. was drawing a crowd. And when those guys didn’t make shots A.I. was able to score enough for the team to win with the way they played defense. He was so good he made the Sixers offense more difficult to defend.
I think that is what is lacking on this team. Boston won with D but they still have Pierce to get the job done when they needed him to on offense. Remember how they even got to the NBA Finals? He was him going shot for shot with LeBron. We have NO ONE that is capable of doing that.
We have a good #2, a good #3 and a good #4 on this team. Gotta have that #1 guy to win a chip. Detroit winning with a bunch of #2’s and 3’s was the exception not the rule. And they haven’t been able to do it again.
suede Responding to post #18, all bets are off on what Maurice will design re available Brand minutes. Maybe he’ll suit up and insert Jeff Ruland, as he and Elton have similar lateral quickness and jumping ability.
Well the key is to somehow keep our #2,#3 and #4 and draft to replace our big money pieces with rookie contracts and then move our big money contracts for that #1 guy. If Spieghts and J.Smith could replace Sam that is a start but than we take a step back defensively. Dannie, I!m getting depressed also.
Jumpin, that ain!t nice!!!!
seude and Dannie Defense, I believe, is an intrinsicly sourced skill. It can be taught and urged to a certain extent, but if it’s not a natural instinct, for the most part, fuhgetaboutit. Brand, Young, Dalembert, Iguodala, Miller … how many of those guys are TRULY top-flight defenders, like guard Mike Gale of Overbrook High in West Philadelphia was for the San Antonio Spurs back in the “Iceman” days? Or Al Attles was for Wilt’s Warriors? Or K.C. Jones was for the Celts? I’d rate NONE of Sixers as ‘A’ defenders!
Love Tyler because although he isn’t the most talented, most athletic or has the most potential, he has more intangibles. He works harder, longer and is tougher. Combine that with a nice mid range jumper, good free throw shooter and good college level post game (at best) and that makes him extremely consistent and more productive than players who are more talented on the college level.
Also to be unbiased I think he greatly benefits from being surrounded by superior talent as well. If a team just wants to stop him they probably could, but they would still lose by 30 because he’s played with 2-4 other NBA prospects on that team. I don’t think he is good enough to dominate if 100% of the attention was on him.
His skill level is good but not great and I am not exactly sure how much he can improve his face up game and handle which is why I am not sure how his college success will translate to the pros.
I am not sure he has enough overall skill to overcome his lack of athletic ability, quickness and size for the position in the NBA. But his work ethic and motor are undeniable which gives him a chance. He could be a really good niche player as is. Rebounder, Reggie Evans type defender and energy guy who could be an asset on offense with a nice 15-17 jumper and good free throw shooter.
He would need to improve his foot speed and become a better passer and face up player to really be very good pro at 6-8. I actually think he finishes with contact very well and is already very strong so his post game could improve with work and improved foot speed. He already out muscles guys in college he will need to add some deceptive quickness because he won’t be able to do that every night on the NBA level.
Defensively he will play hard but will have trouble defending guys on the perimeter and in pick and roll situations – all comes back to foot speed and lateral quickness. He is an ok leaper but not special and I don’t think he has really long arms either so I can’t really see him being a great shot blocker. But if he uses his smarts and leverage could be a decent post defender because he is strong and can get stronger.
Let me ask you guys this, how much different is Hansbrough than Elton Brand? Because when I think that is his ultimate ultimate ceiling with a lot of work and improvement.
Brand isn’t all that athletic or tall. Not a great leaper and has trouble finishing between the trees. His biggest assets seems to be a 15-17 jumper. He is a better defender and I couldn’t say about rebounding because Hansbrough is very good.
suede Ya gotta get position.
JJG – I’ve been saying that for a while now when everyone keeps pumping Iguodala as this lockdown defender. None of these guys are elite defenders I would agree.
I should add to Thad again what I think would hold him back is that lack of assertiveness and grit. Not sure if he is mean enough to be a great defender.
Dannie Good rundown on defense. Sam, by nature, inconsistent. Iguodala, hot and cold, depending on assignment. Miller, gets
scorched often. Brand, OK but doesn’t move about court well enough to be more than that. Agree, Thad has his moments and good intentions, but not enough ingrained grit.
Dannie you have to remember that Thad is a 20 year old kid on a team with millionaires who probably have hair on their back. Give him a couple of years before he starts barking orders. Do you think that shit for brains sammy would listen anything Thad has to say? No, because he’s just a 20 year old kid who in time will be our best player. Just remeber when brands contract runs out, Thad will still only be 25 years old. Take away iverson who was the first pick of the draft, I would have to say that this is our best draft pick since Sir Charles. Now we just need to surround him with winners.
Dannie, I just wonder, even in college, how much time is spent on individual defensive skills. Sam, Carney and even Iggy stand to straight up a lot and Iggy!s fundamentals are terrible in a lot of ways. Twice early in the Lakers game he turned his back completely on the ball.We talk about M.Price for shooting, who do you get for that. My issue with Hansbrough is he seems to show the ball in the post rather than a jump hook or even a nice turnaround jumper. I could see him being a D.Lee level N.B.A. guy and if Reggie was somehow moved at the deadline I would love to have him as part of this team.
`Good game on Texas and U.C.L.A.. Trying to find a p.g. with range.
I like Thad as a pick too, and agree he’s one of the best since Barkley. But ya forgot about Clarence Weatherspoon of Southern Mississippi U., who Thad, while probably having more potential, hasn’t eclipsed in accomplishment yet. Check out ‘Spoon’s first 4 years’ stats with Sixers.
How !bout Kenny bring the Payne. Jumpin, ironically we have been a team that likes undersized p.f.!s [Charles,Clarence, Kenny Thomas and now Elton].
Kenny Payne - thanks a lot, suede, for reminding me of the pain (What’s Lynam doing on Sixers’ bench after drafting him?). Chuck & ‘Spoon - anyone who likes real ball would like them. Thomas was mysterious; once in a while turned it on. Elton is a disappointment based on build-up, but I was never overly impressed with his Duke showing.
Kenny Payne, BJ Tyler, and Sharone wright!! I bet the sixers braintrust was slapping high fives andd sipping champagne complimenting themselves on how they got there pg,sf, and pf for the next 13 years. And don’t forget about Christian Welp, that guy was what championship teams built themselves around! I wanna a freakin title man, I only have about 25-40 years left to live so can we please get rid of sammy, cheeks, and bring in some shooters asap please? F this, bring back Kyle korver.
hey korver’s a free agent at the end of the season? resign Boozer! anyone smell nostalgia?
quit this talk bout Thad not being aggressive. hello! remember a wide-eyed 6-6 athlete that would just trail AI relentlessly waiting for his customary lob-alley oop pass? soon as #3 left town he started experimenting uh? thats part why miller needs to go. more ball for thad. long as there are better (perceived to be better) players than him, he’s always gonna defer. we know Mo is not gonna throw him anything. heck Mo needs to go too. Sammy maybe.
U know not putting too much on his plate yet might be a good thing. maybe thats what Mo is thinking…heck it still dont justify anything.
What do many of these successful teams right now have in common? Their rosters are pretty much the same as last season.
Celtics- lost Posey (that’s about it)
Lakers- lost Turiaf (would be better with him); signed Josh Powell
Cavaliers- added Mo Williams, nothing major.
Magic- added Pietrus and A. Johnson
Hawks- added Mo Evans & Flip Murray, lost Childress
As a result of those minor-to-no signings or additions, the consistency is greater in teams and those teams get off to great starts early in the season.
Generally, the teams that have made numerous additions/subtractions, especially major ones, tend to start off slow. Teammates start bonding with one another when they are on those long road trips and then the consistency starts developing.
What the Celtics did last year was INCREDIBLE!
I think the Sixers will start developing that consistency and chemistry hopefully by the end of this month,as they embark on their first West Coast Trip: (12/26 @ DEN, 12/29 @ UT, 12/31 @ LAC, 1/2 @ DAL, 1/3 @ SAS). Compared to the other “Disney ON Ice” trips the last couple of years, this trip doesn’t look that severe and with only one back-to-back. But we all hope they start getting that even earlier ASAP. But a panic button should not be pressed YET!
The Second WC Trip won’t be until Mid-March when the team SHOULD be making strides by then. Just to look crazily ahead: (3/17 @ LAL, 3/18 @ PHX, 3/20 @ GSW, 3/22 @ SAC, 3/23 @ POR).
For some reason, I am getting an interesting comparison of this team to the Phillies team over past couple of seasons: Decent coaches that got better game after game and the teams start out poorly in the first half and strong in the second half.
Overall, though, I am glad that Stefanski and the team realize their current record of 8-11 is not good. And yes, they will fix it!! Now, let’s see what the Sixers depth is really made of!!
GO SIXERS AND KEEP THE ENERGY GOING!!
Stefanski is a smart GM and is a fan just like you and me. So, I think he knows what he’s doing.
Totally disagree about Thad. The kid, and he is a kid, has been a star since a young age, so I don’t think assertiveness is a big problem. Go watch the highlights on youtube of his McDonald’s All America performance where he matched Durant basket for basket. He is simply doing exactly what his coach is asking him to do – something we wish more athletes would do. The fact that is coach is holding him back, would appear to be the coach’s fault. He still has a lot to improve in his game, he is only 20 afterall, but scorig in the halfcourt is something Mo could easily ask him to do more.
It is incredible that Thaddeus Young can score without any plays set for him, similar to Tayshaun Prince when he entered the league. But pretty soon, teams will notice him and plays must be set for Young. Mark Price is an amazing teacher and a legendary shooter. How on Earth is he an assistant coach with the Hawks? The Hawks are shooting the three pointers better, especially Marvin Williams. Also, didn’t Lou attend Price’s Shooting Camp as well, what happened Lou? Why were the Sixers having trouble trying to add Andrew Toney to Mo’s coaching staff?
If Young could add some extra muscle, improve his ball handle, get more involved offensively and consistently with his jumpers, and improve his defense, he could be an athletic poor man’s Tayshaun Prince or a poor man’s Ron Artest minus the loose screws.
Also, I forget how young this team is? It’s not the youngest team(the Warriors are), but their is a huge upside to this team with these young guys with the high expectations that go along with it.
Our young guys include: Andre Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, Lou Williams, Marresse Speights, and a hopefully recovering Jason Smith (that’s almost a third of the SIxers roster right there playing valuable minutes).
Mo is a great TEACHER, perhaps one of the best assets of his coaching style and allows those young guys to play big minutes and has them try and learn from their mistakes. If Larry were coaching, they would not see the light of day!!
With maturity and valuable minutes, this team does have that potential to be something in one to three years!! We have a great mix of young guys and veterans– a blend that every team must have.
Thaddeus Young– Georgia Tech (1 YR)
Lou Williams– South Gwinnett High School
Marresse Speights– University of Florida (2 YRs)
Jason Smith– Colorado State (1 YR)
Andre Iguodala– University of Arizona (2 YRs)
That is where the potential is in this team with these four (five guys)!!
With the help of our vets, in good time, the Sixers will be THERE!!!
Being an ‘athletic, assertive ballhawk’ and being a ’strong defensive player’ are not one and the same. Young’s nowhere near greatness on the D end. Fall in love with him all you want. “Assertiveness” is not synonymous with “grit.” Has some potential, but I wouldn’t bank on a former McDonald’s All-American suddenly commiting his focus and energies to defense.
@Rob: preaching patience is good. their ceiling looks pretty decent. we expect them to get better. problem is they are not doing that now. nothing within these 20 games has given evidence of that. thats really disturbing. i thought brand would make the learning curve less steep. coach? nobody has ANY idea how these guys are gonna play the next game.
saw clips of that All-American game w/ Durant; yeah Thad was really selfish, they criticized it cos he had a lot of turnovers, but he looked like McGrady with all that attitude.
…..”we expect them to get better. problem is they are not doing that now. nothing within these 20 games has given evidence of that. thats really disturbing”…..
Yeah jkay, that’s what’s getting me too. I fully expected this thing to take some time to come together, but I also expected to see steady improvement as it did. I’m not seeing that at all. Instead we are very uneven from game to game and week to week. At this point I’d be thrilled to see us have one thing firmly established, you know? Just one thing that we bring to the floor every day. At least then we’d have something to hang our hat on going forward. Then we could address other areas and build something. As it stands, we seem to being doing a lot of groping in the dark trying to come up with some magic combination to make it all click.
With that said, I’m not letting them get off that easily. If these young guys are going to play these big, critical minutes, they have to play every minute with awareness and with knowing the basketball fundamentals of common sense. No cheap fouls or being all fancy like with their dribbling.
Tonight, we will see the Sixers team of last year play a new Detroit team that is still rough on paper and still good with the other three key guys remaining from that team (Hamilton, Prince, Wallace)– each of those guys manage to burn us one night or another. I wonder who will guard Rasheed Wallace– he settles for the threes and perimeter shots. Who will guard Richard Hamilton? I think Iggy should– his length and athleticism could bother Hamilton (similar to a ”science model” of the Lakers defense). Then again, who was it that guarded the other UConn Ray Allen a week ago? Point is– don’t let Hamilton have that big night or that big stretch.
I look forward to seeing Thaddeus Young and Tayshaun Prince defending one another on some occassions. Battle of two underrated, potential players.
Now the critical factor of the game will be the bench. With Brand sidelined, who will fill the void and how deep will Mo go? On paper, we should have the advantage. Detroit has Rodney Stuckey and Will Bynum, two guys that attack the basket at will. Jason Maxiel is the other guy to worry about coming off the bench, but is undersized.
This game will be interesting because both teams are inconsistent and are trying to adapt with their new players. However, a game without Brand could be a blessing in disguise because Mo will go to a familiar lineup of last year and try to bring the magic of last season’s second half back. Meanwhile, Brand will watch the game from wherever he is and understand where he can be great for this team. Aside from the Lakers game, he has been living up to his 20-10 average and the coaches/management want EB to be EB and for the rest of the Sixers to play that second half style of last season. And to the critics that think EB can’t run with the team, think again. they probably sleep while a Clippers game is on in the East and Central Coast. He is usually the first to make it to the other side of court.
I think the Sixers will make the playoffs, BUT WHAT SEED? THAT IS WHERE THE EXPECTATIONS ARE (unless serious injuries occur).
Let’s hope Brand is ready for the surprising Nets. Their frontcourt isn’t that great and so far the Sixers have dominated weaker frontcourts!!
I have great news– Maresse Speights is going to start tonight!! Also, Theo Ratliff and Donyell Marshall will be activated and ACTIVE for tonight’s game!! Now is the time to see what our depth is really made of! And this will present more minutes for these guys, even with Brand returns. Knock, knock. Who’s there? Opportunity. Opportunity who? Opportunity knocking on the Sixers’ door! Once the depth muscles start flexing, people will see what the real Sixers are made of! (Hopefully, let’s cross our fingers!)
http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/speights_first_start_081205.html
It sure would be nice to see if Donyell Marshall can still play at all. Why he has not been been used when outside shooting has been the offensive killer is a mystery to me.
Fellas I said this last year on Narducci’s blog and i will say it again. THAD YOUNG IS A FUTURE DREAM TEAMER! No disrespect to T. Prince, but there is no way that I see Thad becoming a poor mans Prince. In posts 52 and 54 from Jkay and Morty, I couldnt agree enough about Thad. Just like Morty said, this guy is a coaches dream and is only doing as he is told. And just like Jkay said, Andre Miller needs to get him the freaking ball in the halfcourt. Post the guy up for f’s sake! And Rob if Cheeks is a great teacher then he could start by teaching the team a play. Just one because that will be more then we have. And I don’t mean posting up shit for brains sammy either.
Im pumped up to see “Sprites” get the start tonight. Now I wonder if Mo will let the kid post up. I bet dalembert is salivating at the thought of jacking up some shots tonight!