I was doing my normal morning round and found this little nugget.
Other players that executives say are available include Philadelphia 76ers center Sam Dalembert – Yahoo Sports
Interesting although not much meat to it. No discussed trade proposals or likely suitors – yet. Two things come to mind…
1. Are the Sixers finally fed up with Dalembert’s inconsistent play and lack of basketball IQ? So much so that they are willing to move a running big man who is also their best interior defender? Will be interesting to see.
2. Everyone calling for Stefanski’s job after one off-season need to chill out. No one is perfect and great general managing is probably one of the hardest things to do is sports. Building a winner isn’t easy, takes time and often a lot of luck. Although Stefanski said he won’t preach patience to the fans, realistically we can’t expect the type of massive turnaround the Celtics had. I really believe Stefanski knows what he is doing and will make this team right. He just needs time to work.
If the above statement is true we all should rest assured that Stefanski and the Sixers aren’t happy or satisfied with the results we have seen. They aren’t going to sit on their hands and accept mediocre basketball. And it also means he is working the phones and thinking up deals just like we are here on this blog.
What I really wish I knew, is what is Stefanski’s angle. What type of deal is he looking for? What type of player? Cap space with future moves in mind. Young players and/or draft picks. Or get an impact player for to help with a playoff push this season. Time will tell I guess.
Thoughts?
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EBrand is good for 12 min(maybe more) in the center position on most nights, Theo good for 12-20 min, Speights can fill in at center and I would expect a role playing center in return plus I hope a shooter. Also, JSmith returns next year. Last night confirmed that Theo can be a shot blocking threat as a center. Where Sammy would be missed most is as a defender of Bosch, Duncan, Garnett, etc. Those tall power forward/center types. While looking for Sammy matches last week the findings seemed slim. Miami was the only direct match that I found and that meant taking on that stiff Blount in the deal but acquiring a shooter/scorer in DCook. Think it may have to be a 3 way deal. Our GM has some creative work to do in order to trade Sammy.
I find it comical that people are suggesting we acquire D. Cook when are the team that drafted him and then traded him for Jason Smith who I really am not the fan many are.
I’d rather re-swap Smith straight up for Cook and use Dalembert for something bigger/better – cap space.
Dannie, I like Cook & Smith. Cook has that fearlessness as a shooter, decent handle and length as a two guard. Smith would be hitting that Jumper consistantly this year and he has(had????) the quickness to also cover the Garnetts; However, his questionable attribute is his agressiveness. Maybe an even match. We’ll have to see how their careers go in addition to Thad & Thorntons.
I think the only way we will know if trading Sammy is a good move, is if we do it.
Ever heard the expression, “You don’t know whatcha got till it’s gone” ?
That may apply here. We don’t know if we can replace his rebounding and defense. It may turn out where we trade him, and realize that we can’t replace those things and end up missing him.
Thats why I want a draft pick included in the deal. If we are going to trade him I want it to help us for the future, as well as this season. I would like a trade that would clear up some cap space, and give us a draft pick.
In my opinion, trading Sammy is a huge risk because SOMETIMES he has anchored our defense and rebounding. I understand the fact that he is inconsistant, but still a huge risk I think.
Like you Dannie, I am not a huge Sam hater, but I think this would be one of ES’s best options. I feel that Theo in his mid 30’s is just as good as an interior defender as Sam, and he is around 9 mill cheaper. I think that if given the minutes Theo can grab as many boards and probably get more blocks, and not just because he played a good game last night, he has been productive every time he has gotten minutes. He is averaging almost 1.5 bpg / 3 rpg in only 12 minutes, and just like Camby, I think there is a couple more years left on those legs.
I just watched the game from last night, and there was a play where Theo got a rebound and Gordan was just waiting for the outlet to Miller and Theo saw this and held on to the ball. It would have been the exact opposite if it were Sam. I think his poor decision making and low BBall IQ make him a liability, but his capabilities make him valuable trade assett. Once EB gets back the Sixers are loaded in the middle and could probably be just as well off even if they moved him just to rid themselves of the contract.
I forgot to mention Reggie in my previous post. He is playing great basketball right now. I think he & Elton could be a great combo which was underutilized earlier in the Season. I could see them on the court together quite often. Would help to maintain that defensive intensity and we could own the glass with those together.
Dannie, after looking at Cook’s last 5 games, I would trade Smith for Cook but we know that won’t happen. Cook is the type of player that we need big time right now. Look at his recent 3 point shooting. Doubt if Miami is looking to trade him.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3196
Dannie, first off, 17 freethrow attempts by Iggy, who looked real good posting on the elbow and just going over his man, ala Jordan. Dannie, I think a high post threat at center is a must for this team on the offensive end. Thad, Iggy and Elton all are difficult matchups 12 ft and in. Did my trade machine bit this morning and there are a lot of takers for Sam out there. My list of pieces, other than cap relief are a cheaper version of Sam [Diop, Turiaf, Gadzaric], a young p.g. [Sessions,C.J.Watson, Lowry] to back up A.Miller, and a starting 2 guard. A Sammy and Willie for Noa and Hughes is an example. Dannie, we aren!t going to solve all our issues with the trade of Sammy but depending on his value we can improve ourselves I believe.
Suede, can you justify these matchups? Chicago makes some sense but Milwaukee? Don’t they have their center. Dallas is already paying Dampier a ton of money. Not sure there are as many matches as you indicate. I think Sacramento wants to put Hawes in the middle. Don’t know that Sammy would fit in Golden States system. Not sure there are that many fits for Sammy and his 10 mil contract.
Dannie, I don!t believe E.S. will get rid of him for cap relief only. Ifeel that could be part of his mindset but getting an expiring contract,young player and a draft pick would be my guess. Sammy!s defense against the playoff teams may make a Cleveland ,for example, bite on a deal for Szerbiak!s expiring deal, now that they have enough shooters around Lebron but would that be good enough for us?
S.F.W., Teams that have a higher agenda than us, Cleveland, Dallas,etc., and don!t mind going over the cap may take his contract on as a guy who off the bench for 24 minutes a night can be a specialist defender, ala P.J.Brown. S.F.W., Indiana for Nesterovic [8.4 exp.] and J.Jack is an option with Bird trying to put athletic defenders in the mix with OBrians shooters. There are options I believe depending on A] his rep around the league and B] E.S.!s gameplan.
Suede – Noah and Larry Hughes – Never, Ever, Ever. Pete’s knows I hate Noah. Not only do I think he isn’t very good, but he has proven to be a head case as well in his early career. Hughes = washed up and not a good fit on a up and coming team. Also, he has been complaining about playing time lately as he thinks he should be a 30+ minute per game player still.
I think Hughes could find a niche on a good team coming off the bench playing a Michael Finley type role. He see no purpose for him on the Sixers.
P.J. Brown said he was retired for good so that puts a higher premium on other bigs available. I actually think teams would be interested in Theo as well.
Suede – I think E.S. WOULD move Sam for cap space. Like I said in my other post I think the Sixers need a star or at the very least an upgrade in overall talent. Moving Sam and Miller would contribute to freeing up Star cap space.
But this all depends on how Stefanski is evaluating this team and needs.
I think they need another impact player in the form of a versatile guard that can shoot (Joe Johnson) and/or point guard with shooting ability and strong defensively capabilities.
They may be able to get one or both of those guys by stockpiling draft picks like Kevin Pritchard in Portland does so well. But then you have to make the right picks.
And we still have no idea if the plan is to resign Miller or not which of course plays into all of this.
Dannie, I!m a little higher on Noah than you, I think as part of a center rotation he would be a good fit defensively against the Howard!s and Duncan!s of the world. Hughes is to me a major upgrade at 2 guard over what we currently have although I don!t do this deal if Sammy!s value is greater than we think it is. Ok. City is loaded with expiring contracts and has its superstar[Durant], 2nd banana [Green] and a young p.g. [Westbrook] in place. After adding Krstic maybe Sammy as their rim protector could be a good fit, I hope so.
I never was a Sammy hater but at this point I would give him for free. Really.
His boneheaded plays and idiotic mistakes in the worst moments of the game are not acceptable after SEVEN years in the League. He is not giving us what he used to do in his past years, also (some points, some j’s, accuracy from the ft line etc), so it’s pretty safe to say he actually regressed. The bad thing, is that his salary is higher, and he will be on our books for TWO more years.
I always said there are centers that do more or less what Sam does but for HALF the price (Perkins, Haywood etc): given Speights’ EXCELLENT start and given the fact that we will not win a ring this year nor the year after, I say give Sam to whover might be interested.
A package of Speights, Theo, and a healthy Jason Smith would be an upgrade over ANY version of Dalembert, and cost like half. Not to mention the stupid plays would be cut of around 80%.
Getting rid of Dalembert and getting something out of the trade would be Stefanski masterpiece. I would be ok even with a 2dn rounder.
Ricky – ” I would give him for free. Really. I would be ok even with a 2nd rounder”
My opinion: I am tired of people saying nonsense like that – and REALLY meaning it. Giving away a starting center away from free or for a 2nd round pick is just as idiotic as some Dalembert’s mistakes. I’m sorry. It doesn’t make even a little bit of sense.
He makes mistakes yes, but he has value. As goofy as he is by the end of the season he always seems to find his way into the top 15 in double doubles (among centers), rebounds and block shots and 50% from the field. You don’t “give” that away for free. And I personally find it hilarious that people complain about him shooting. He takes 6 freakin’ shots per game for his career and never more than 8 shots per game in any one season. Oh and he connects at a 52% clip. He takes the occasional bad shot, but who doesn’t? Why are his scrutinized more than anyone elses?
You give Sam away for free I think the Sixers get worse defensively and on the boards and people simply have something else to complain about.
Speights is having a pretty good start. Excellent is an overstatement. Perfect example of people getting excited about one side of the ball. His rebounding has been marginal for a big man and his individual defense and defensive awareness has been pretty bad. He blocks a shot here and there and gets some offensive boards here and there because he is athletic. But in the last 42 minutes of play he had 3 total rebounds and zero block shots. Let’s not get carried away.
And I still have NO CLUE why people are on Jason Smith like he is the answer to our prayers in the front court. I was pissed when they traded Cook for Smith and still am. I see him as a 3rd, maybe 2nd big off the bench at best. And I still am not convinced he can defend in the post either.
I have seen Sammy cost way too many games this year for us. The game in Utah was lost by Sammy in the 2nd quarter. Enough is enough. I do think we need to concentrate on a scorer right now (3pt expert) and keep young. Draft picks (stress sssss) is fine to for Sammy. He must go soon for us to have any hope this season. Keeping him here forces the coach to play him. Not an expert but this is my thought.
Dean H – Since when is a game completely lost by a single player in a single quarter? And you pointed out one game I’d love to hear about all these other games Sammy apparently lost all by himself.
Come on now, that’s simply not the case. Team sport remember, win as a team lose as a team. Many factors and players have contributed to the Sixers woes thus far.
Very rarely is Sam the guy turning the ball over countless times and taking and missing a ton a bad shots and missing critical shots. He is without question inconsistent and likely the most inconsistent player on the team, but he isn’t as bad as people make him out to be. And he certainly doesn’t lose games by himself.
I know this isn’t the trade post, but it involves a possibility for a Sam trade…so here it is
Trade Machine
Minnesota gets- Sammy/Willie G
Philadelphia gets- Mike Miller/Jason Collins
It would give Minnesota a defensive presence to pair with Jefferson and enable to put Craig Smith on the bench where he belongs and Willie would sub for some of the shooting they would lose with Miller.
The Sixers get an outside threat and an expiring contract.
Just something I thought of, I think it could benefit both teams. It wouldn’t be a “must do” for Minnesota, but they aren’t winning and I am sure they could be tempted to make a change.
Sorry Dannie still trying to figure out how to make it pretty, didnt work so here is the link
Suede - Not a Noah fan that is for sure. But I certainly don’t think he would do a better job defending the better front court players than Sam. It would be more about finding a player to fill some of Sam’s production for much less salary.
How do you figure Larry Hughes is a major upgrade and for how long?
I think he could be an upgrade IF he continues to shoot at career levels and defends like he was 25 years old. He is shooting the three and free throws at career high levels this season. And he is turning the ball over at a career low (1 per game) mainly because he isn’t handling the ball in Chicago with Rose and Gordan there. He really has become a jump shooter as evidenced by his lack of free throws. If he keeps playing that way only, he could fit with Brand in the line up – maybe. If he falls back to his career averages and past tendencies offensively he could be a disaster.
I wouldn’t consider Noah anything more than a down grade from Sammy. In no way is he a better defender or an offensive minded player, and I just can’t stand the guy
Dannie
seems you are forgetting that Sam is shooting 46% this year, which is VERY LOW for a center, also considering like 3/4 of the FGs he MAKES are dunks and putbacks… Thank God he’s not shooting more, and thank God he’s not taking shots in crunch time (we already have Iguodala missing them, LOL).
Your defense of him “not turning the ball over countless times” and not “taking and missing tons of bad shots” is pretty weak, sorry, it’s not like our offense runs through him, so of course he is not statistically exposed on that side.
But I’d say that for all the balls he fumbles (NOT showed in the stat sheet), the bad catches, the illegal picks and so on, he’s affecting our offense enough, and not in a positive way.
And while it’s true that it’s a team game, and players are not responsible for a game won or lost, Sam was HUGE FACTOR in many of the last losses, especially @ Denver (singlehandedly allowed Denver a 5-0 break in the final with three plays by his own, passing from a possible 85-94 to the real 90-92)
Completely correct what you said about Speights limitations as a rebounder, and I’m not saying Jason Smith would be the answer, I’m saying that THE PACKAGE of MS, Theo (+ JS) could more or less give us what Sam gives now, and overcome the (sure) loss in rebounding with a big upgrade in basically all other categories.
I’m 100% sure that simply by finishing around the basket, actually catching the ball from dishes, and limiting the goaltendings, the loose ball fouls and the illegal picks would mean a +4/5 PPG increase
We would have Brand (and Evans) taking care of business under the boards, rebounding would be one of the last problems
Dannie: let it be on the record (to negate the Jason Smith lovers) that I have absolutely no faith in Jason Smith and wonder why anyone else should.
Smith has a good jump shot for a big guy period. thats all. if Ryan F wants Sammy gone that bad, then I want Jason Smith gone twice as fast. dunno why I’m getting peeved over this. he just had his first year so it’s a tossup.
to dedicate this to him: an athletic 6′10″ or so center with zero rebounding attitude, good jump shot from 15ft range, good shot blocking ability, picks up fouls faster than Jason Collins on Shaq, sets good screens and is absolutely hopeless when it comes to defending ANY post player as big or tall as him (just raises hands in the air and waits patiently).
why be so high on a guy like that? considering i am not any kind of talent evaluator, i don’t consider him a bust. his natural position i think is PF but I’d take Speights over him in an instant.
I like Ryan F’s Trade a lot now would only require Min to go along with it, but I would do that deal in a sec.
Dannie,
Maybe I exaggerated Sammy loosing the game by himself. But, CSN stated the turning point of the game was Sammy turning over the ball. During their run, if I recall correctly, Sammy had a ball stolen (CSN pont), threw that ball away, lost a pass, and missed 2 shots (one after another). All at the time of the Jazz run. Close to loosing the game by himself. But correct. And, note, I did not state I was an expert like you, just a fan. Thank you for putting balance in the blog.
ricky: Sammy makes mistakes…yes!! tons of ‘em. do mistakes cos you a game? No! not playing well does.
with that said I think moving Sam would be a good move bcos it clears up cap space for nabbing a future superstar or just a star which is the key to our rebuilding our Sixers franchise into a title contender according to Mr. Dannie’ s post http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-trade-talk-anatomy-of-a-champion/ the prospect, of which by the way, is an ABSOLUTE PIPE DREAM !!
seriously trading him would force us to change our style to a more conventional one whihc is what we want right?
jkay- It is not that I want Sammy gone “that bad”, I was just responding to a post. I do feel that he may be our best trade asset that wouldn’t be as hard to replace as others because of the depth in the sixers front court. I don’t think that if they were to try to make a move with Sammy to find a shooter that the teams rebounding rate or points allowed would change much or even at all. As far as Smith is concerned, I think he definitley helps any team but he is certainly only a backup at best, I don’t think we’ll see many 25/12 games from him in his career.
As far as my proposal, Minnesota is one of the worst defensive teams in the league, giving up almost 103 ppg. I think they would definitley consider an upgrade in the frontcourt with their lack of depth there and they have a lot of young talent in the back court. I don’t think I am the only one that would love to have Miller at the 2.
Thanks 2one5, I definitely think it would be one of the few options out there. Also, Miller’s contract expires in 2010 when the free-agent frenzy will begin.
Hopefully ES is on the phone with McHale already, but I am sure it is just a dream.
Ricky – I guess you are forgetting this is the first time in 5 YEARS Sam is shooting under 50%. Like I said he isn’t perfect and is having a down year coming off his best season.
Illegal picks – quantify please. How many last game, the game before? I’ve read you say many times you aren’t a stat guys you watch games or whatever. Everyone watches the games here. This isn’t in the boxscore just like dropped passes aren’t but that doesn’t mean you can’t count them while you are watching the game. Sorry need more support for the claim.
I’d argue Sam attempts to screen and misses more than he sets illegal picks. But that is another issue with this team on its own.
“it’s not like our offense runs through him” EXACTLY, which means the great negative impact people seem to think he has on offense is minimal at best.
Are you forgetting Theo is 35 turning 36 in April? That’s what you are banking on? Jason Smith give me a break. What has he done? Can he defend? Can he rebound? I know he shot 44% from the field in his rookie season. Which is VERY LOW for a center – right?
People want to move Sammy I am fine with that. Propose a deal that makes sense and makes the Sixers better. But stop drastically undervaluing him like the mere action of moving him makes the Sixers better. Rebounding and defense are critical factors for winning games and Sam provides those better than any other Center on the roster currently. Can you get a better center? Good let’s see the deal. Can we get a versatile perimeter player to help with the shooting problem? Good let’s see the deal.
Dean H – Far from an expert – haha.
Sam is a bigger disappointment than Freddy Adu (who now plays for Monaco in Ligue I). He buttheads nearly every ball that comes to his vicinity and rarely strikes it upfield. His daddy long legs are of limited consequence as the game’s fundamentals mother him quite loosely. It would be news if he was not actively being shopped. 10 million (and change) has seldom seemed as senselessly outlayed.
Dannie- Just to clarify, I consider you MUCH more an expert than most. Was not being sarcastic. Thank you for the blog and your thoughts.
Jkay – What is a pipe dream?
How does trading Dalembert change the style of play?
Ryan F – I like Mike Miller, he is a professional shooter/scorer. Don’t know if Min would do it. Not sure how attached McHale is to Miller that’s all.
I personally think Sam would be a bargain at $4M – $5M. I hate his contract with a passion but that’s not really his fault (Billy King).
Dannie, Watching Hughes the last couple of years he seems to have turned into more of a spot up shooter, for whatever reason. Yes, I think Noah would also be an upgrade at center over trying to play Theo too many minutes or throwing Spieghts into a possible playoff race. Down the offensive end I believe Noah would be an improvement I.Q. wise from the getgo. Discussed M.Miller with S.F.W. but putting him at the 2 guard scares me defensively. Dannie, what did E.S. see recently that gave him a change of heart, the way we play offensively with Sam off the court, maybe 20 min. of Elton at 5 is entering his mind and he feels the other minutes can be broken up. Jason Smith is a good complimentery player that FITS what we are doing here. I remember a guy that set the best screens on the team, that ran the court for a fast breaking team, and brought energy and a very good jumpshot off the bench. There were times when we played better with him out there than Sam, for whatever reason. As a 15 min. contributer on a winning team, ala Reggie, yes I think he has a role here.
Suede - It cracks me up every time people that are PRO Jason Smith say everything positive and it all has to do with offense. That tells me enough right there.
Why does Miller scare you defensively?
Dannie- Agree totally. I do not think that Sammy is worthless at all, but with the teams overall defense and the loaded front court he may be “expendable”. When looking at other teams it is hard to find one that “needs” Sammy’s abilities. Most teams are either winning, have an established center, or have recently drafted a prospect.
I also don’t think that if you try to trade Sammy you go for another defensive “big”, and most centers that have a better ball game than Sammy are most likely untouchable.
I think the only avenue if this were to happen is to go after a shooter, and most teams that are in need of what he brings, don’t really have anything that would help the Sixers in any way.
The Wolves on the other hand are loaded with players like Brian Cardinal, Jason Collins, Mark Madsen, Booth, Love and Craig Smith (who only has a good game when the Sixers are in town). The only player in the front with any talent or promise is Love, other than Jefferson of course. In their backcourt they have Brewer, Gomes, Mccants, Carney, Foye etc. All promising “youngins”, so they may be interested in a deal that could give them a boost around the rim, and the only player on their roster over 6′10 is Booth, who I don’t think is going to get extended after this year.
I think it would be a good move for both teams and it may be a true possibilty.
Suede- I could see why Miller guarding the quicker guards in the league may scare you, he may not have the lateral quickness to stay in front of them, but that’s why we have our $80 million man. Right? Who I must say has been playing some solid basketball lately. Overall, I think it would be well worth the risk, the guy can shoot the ball pretty well, I know he hasn’t been having a career year but I wouldn’t expect him to be on the downward slope just yet.
Dannie, I like him as much as a high I.Q. playmaker as a shooter but wonder if he fits our pressure the ball uptempo defensive style.Plus he is doing for Jefferson what we need somebody to do for Brand, so I don!t think he would be available. I thought Jason showed signs of being a good weak side shotblocker last year with obvious shortcoming with his man on man defense because of strength issues,similar to Thad against the p.f. !s, something that should improve for both players with getting stronger.I think his game fits this team offensively because of his high post ability and our role players should make 2 mill. a year,not what Willie and Reggie are getting now.
Dannie
not sure why u r so fired up in replying to my comments, chill out, it’s the first day of a new year. We are simply discussing and btw our views are closer than u might think, so let’s e-hug, LOL.
Again, I am not a Sammy basher, and I’m not a JS groupie either. I just think the guy has game and can be a good big man off the bench in the rotation. You think he’s not that good, fine.
As for Sam, I see his evident regress, and the lower % is only one of the aspects. Yes, I watch the games just as you do there, only difference is I rarely watch live – and sometimes blackouts don’t allow me to catch them at all. But I’ve watched enough Sixers bball to realize that Sam is more often a negative than a positive factor THIS YEAR.
No, I’m not a great believer in complicated stats like the (excellent) ones that Brian/Depressed fan showed us, and I don’t like to spend time on Real GM trade checker, I am just a fan trying to analyze what I see during games.
I think that given Sam’s salary, length of contract and his overall efficiency, we would better off trading him, and there is no stat that could make me think otherwise. If and when Sixers will deal him, I’ll take a look at the trade, and tell my opinion.
It’s not like we are trying to win a ring this year, so freeing cap space would benefit the team more than paying 11-12 mill per year until 2011 for a 6 PPG, 46% shooting center that guarantees you 3-5 absolutely dumb plays PER NIGHT, often in key moments of games. But maybe it’s me.
Have a great 2009, you and all Recliner GM readers, keep up the good work.
Ryan, I think Collins,McCants and either Telfair or Madsen is a more realistic trade from Minn. perspective because with Mayo!s success it may scare their front office from gambling on moving Miller now. I guess I would do it if it is available though.
Possibly suede, I don’t think it is something that is going to happen, but I would do a really silly dance if it did. A fat boy can dream, can’t he? haha
I just don’t feel that replacing Sammy with another Sammy would fix anything, or replacing any other player on the roster with the same type player would help, unless it was a huge upgrade in talent which is not going to happen. I just want ES to make a positive move some how, the sound of 13-18 sucks.
Dannie: building a champ team in your blueprint is, most of those teams were freaking dynasties meen. but more importantly the requisite superstar that you describe in your column as missing, is definitely a dream. i don’t factor out luck and the “INFAMOUS” free agent class of 2010 but cmon what are the odds?
also Sammy has such good shot-blocking it allows us to switch defenders, attempt trapping, blow assignments etc. a lot, with the good faith that he will be waiting if they get to the rim, that philosophy aids our fast break considering that he will be the guy that waits for the rebound as the remaining 3plus players are already accelerating towards the half court line. w/out him there will have to be a more conscious effort by everyone to rebound and defend well and the energy put to that will curb our fast break ability.
dunno if that makes much sense but I am almost certain of it.
Ryan, maybe we can use Minn.!s desparation to win against them. Instead of asking for Miller try and pry 2 of their 4 #1 picks off of them instead. Ex., Collins,McCants,Madsen and the picks for Sammy and [Rush,Marshall type]. McCants is in the last year of his deal, if his audition is good, we resign him, if not we get 9 mill. off our cap and 2 #1 picks, that would be a good return.
suede: you’re a growing team in a rebuilding process; number one- you don’t think your talent is good enough to win now and you are trying to get better. number two: your team is struggling which is an obvious sign that what you have is somehow not getting it done.
with that said why would you give away #1 draft picks again?
Granted, Sam will gather you rebounds, alter some shots and play a few centers well from a defensive standpoint (when he dedicates and concentrates); but his strong, flaky personality is such that when he’s off his game or not getting PT he imposes a losing kharma onto the team imo – a reach, but my instinct.
I see moving him as addition by subtraction, for as long as he’s around and only secondarily involved (which his overall play and the team’s roster cluster has dictated) ‘the Dalembert puzzle’ pulls from the main goal of team focus/unity and winning games (a difficult enough pursuit without distractions or dissent – direct or indirect).
Agree, he shouldn’t be given away as he represents – in part - a commodity other teams need or may anticipate needing for future contention or a playoff run. His ”blemishes” will not surprise any interested NBA party. With SD as the moveable subject, acquiring a high draft choice or a composed deep shooter would satisfy me -
create cap space and fill a specific personnel need (this year or next).
Don’t see Dalembert as a bad egg, just as an incomplete/inconsistent player and a poor fit/expendable piece for Sixers at this time. 449 regular season games (and 11 playoff games) is a strong basis of evidence by which to judge future returns.
I am not a huge fan draft picks, typically if you don’t get one of the top picks you end up with more role players, with the exception of 2003, 1996 etc, and I am not saying that M. Miller is more than that. I am not a huge fan of College ball , but from what everyone else is saying there is not much coming out soon. Cap space is good always, but there isn’t going to be anything great in free-agency for 2 more years and even then nothing is certain. If you start clearing cap now you pretty much say you give up and you’re hoping for something better later, and I am not a fan of that either. I say if this time next year we’re in the same boat, that’s when you start trying to shed salary, but I think it is a little to early to start preparing for that like the NYN
I am not fooled into thinking this team is a contender anymore, but I think with the addition of a shooter that is good enough in all respects of the game to start, this team could be successful. Yes we added some guys that can shoot (Rush/Marshall) but they arent on the floor long enough to make a difference. I think you go and try to find a shooter without doing anything “too” drastic, truely evaluate the team assembled, and then and go from there.
I would want nothing to do with Mccants, he shoots a poor percentage and doesn’t do anything especially well. I’d much rather take Brewer, but I think along with Jefferson he is one of their guys they would like to build around.
I’d like to see ES score a Miller/Gordan/Richardson type, see if that helps be a +.500 club, and see where the team is.
My opinion is probably swayed in a positive direction because the team won last night, after the next loss, I’ll probably be calling for ES to give them all away for nothing. xD
Ricky – Never anything personal. But if you haven’t already noticed on this blog the comments is where all the action is. I disagree (and welcome other people to disagree with me) and I make my counter points just like anyone else is free to do on here. Has nothing to do with being “fired up.” Rather it’s what we do here.
Suede – I personally think the whole “pressure the ball ” aspect of the Sixers supposed style has been more talk than actual consistent substance on the court.
Anyway I think if the Sixers had Miller (or any other strong offensive, weaker defensive guard/forward) that guy would be interchangeable defensively with Iguodala. Just put Iguodala on the better offensive wing player like the Sixers do now. I don’t see much change there you know.
And I think he would be fine in support of the fastbreak. Because he makes smart decisions and good passes. I’d much rather him leading the break with Iguodala, Lou or Thad running with him as the finishers than the other way around.
But again, I don’t know how attached McHale is to Miller.
Jkay – How many times do I have to say building a championship team is hard. It’s hard because you MUST have a star and they are hard to come by, but not impossible. You have to position yourself to get one – one way or another. Some teams buy them (Celtics) some teams lose a lot and acquire them (Portland, Cleveland) and some teams get lucky (Lakers – getting 13th pick Kobe for Vlade Divac) But, just because it’s hard to do and seemingly unlikely given the Sixers current situation doesn’t mean we should ignore the reality of it. That was really the point of the post.
To state it along with other pieces of a winning team and evaluate the Sixers based on that. Again if the goal is to build a championship level team, not just a playoff team.
Also, I’ve said in other comments that if we can’t get the Star player and want to just acquire a few really good players we aren’t on the right track there either. So we can focus on that if you want, but I think the Sixers need to increase the overall talent on this team as a whole in order to win that way.
I would start by asking this: Who do you guys trust on the Sixers right now? How long do you want to wait for guys to realize potential before you start focusing on acquiring proven skill and realized talent?
I think those questions would be a good jump off point in determining who to keep and who to move.
Make sense?
Also about your Sammy point. I get that. I wonder what is the likely outcome though. Without the comfort of Sam back there do guys actually buckle down and change their current tendencies? OR Do the Sixers simply turn into a freeway to the cup defensively?
” I don’t know how attached McHale is to Miller.” if i count correctly thats the 3rd time already. do i hear wishful thinking? i thought with the celtics surprising success, his team’s recent struggle and OJ Mayo’s emergence, that McHale’s hands would a lil more tied especially concerning trading away players.
like jjg said; if he goes, i hope we get something in return. something meaning if IT doesnt crack OUR starting line-up, then its a giveaway.
Dannie: “Who do you guys trust on the Sixers right now?” . GOOD POINT! i’ll shut up now.
Jkay – When I say “I don’t know how attached McHale is to Miller” I mean I think he likes him and wouldn’t part with him. I actually thought Miller was the better coup in that Mayo deal and Love was an after thought for me personally, although I know McHale “loves” Love. If I was a fan of the Wolves I would have been more excited about Miller. So I wonder/believe McHale is as excited about Miller as well so I don’t think he would do the deal. And his contract is reasonable which is another reason to keep him.
BUT, I don’t know FOR SURE how attached McHale is to Mike Miller. Maybe he isn’t and would be willing to make a trade. Another reason I don’t think he would is because I believe there area bunch of other teams that would be as interested or more than the Sixers (should be) so competition for him would be very high.
JJG – Been especially on fire lately. That was about the best Dalembert opposition as I’ve read.
I tell you what, I almost want to see Sam go to another contending team just so that the “Can you win a chip with Dalembert?” would have a chance of being viewed and potentially answered. But if he goes away and succeeds that would only serve to depress me to an all-time low with the Sixers.
jkay- I think all of us are doing a lot of wishful thinking right now because this season has been a complete bust so far.
Dannie- I trust ES. I trust that he will try to make a good basketball move and try to turn this thing around this year. A championship may be out of question, but if the team keeps heading in the same direction, so are the playoffs. I would be completely amazed if the roster is the same after this month. I think the only way that will happen is if no one plays ball and gives us some value for our players. I hope he doesn’t make a move just to make a move, but I’d also be upset if he does nothing.
Just got back from dinner tonight. This has been great spirited dialogue. Sammy or no Sammy that is the question. My preference is to say goodbye and move on. We’ll become a more intelligent team. Probably, will give up more baskets at the tin. See more of Reggie & Theo. I think that’s a good thing. In Ed we trust!
Mike Miller: While no one knows how attached McHale may be to MMiller, we do know a few things for sure:
1. He has underachieved so far this year. This could be due to: injuries that aren’t being talked about, bad coaching, bad individual fit with players around him, lack of a true PG, or bad team chemistry. We don’t know.
2. Minny has Rashad McCants, who I personally have never liked that much, but still is young, pretty athletic, a big time shooter and has proved that when he gets minutes, can score…as well as Carney, and C Brewer…both of whose playing time has been spotty, or inconsistent. All three are young prospects, and while none have panned out so far, I doubt anyone in Minny is giving up on them given that none have had a true shot yet (although one could argue that with Brewer).
Given the above two points, it is at least feasible that McHale could look to move Mike Miller, if he wanted to go with throwing some young guns in the fire. He could also do what LB has done in Charlotte and tag team the backcourt with two PGs (Telfair and Foye), another option. I think many around the L thought Miller would blossom in Minny…if he had, and Minny proved to be a nice mix of vets and youngsters, no one McHale would think about it. But they are god awful, so moving M Miller is at least a move within the realm of sane logic.
Mike Miller’s defense: Mike Miller’s defense is pretty damn bad, so I definitely understand some people having worry about that. A shame too, because at 6′8 he has potential to be a great asset in that area. He hustles too, and is a great energy guy…but just doesn’t seem to have the defensive gene. But IMO, he more than picks up for it on the offensive side of the court. Stats have never told the whole story with Miller, he really improves a team’s chemistry in half court sets.
Jason Smith: Last year I groaned really loudly when we picked him…and nothing has changed since then. He is like a Brian Cook that is slightly tougher, and a bit of a better rebounder. And that is not a compliment. I really do not see why we picked him and what the big deal was.
Ratliff: To whoever said looking to Ratliff as any kind of solution is idiotic, I half to disagree. Long term, obviously, no one would bank on him. But if we do trade Dalembert, we should all praise ES for a savvy signing, because Ratliff has proved he is injury free, still has what it takes, and is still adept at altering and blocking shots, playing defense, and getting the occassional post move or two.
As a stop gap solution, you probably couldn’t get much better bang for buck for what Ratliff gives us. I have a feeling he will be finding a niche as a Joe Smith type player, except on the defensive end…the vet that has a long battery and whose instincts for the game, and vet tricks, keep him around a long time. Granted, we probably don’t want to be playing him more than 20-25 mpg…but to tag-team with Speights and Evans inside if D-Bere is gone…I’m more than fine with for the short term.
Dannie, I have a theory; E.S. may have decided watching the team that a piece [shooter] needed to be added and looked at what he has and decided Sam was easier to replace than A.Miller. Reggies good play and good effect on the team may have also played into it along with Sam!s attitude when not given major minutes, as jumpin brought up. I think A.Miller is not going anywhere and Sammy, along with our draft pick if necessary to “sweeten the pot” is going to be used to add a piece that gives Elton!s 5 year window a chance. An Theo,Marreese and Elton center platoon with A.Miller at the point is a better option to him then Sam with a new point guard. Just my opinion.
DaveT., I read when McHale was put at coach that he no longer was involved in personnel decisions, I wonder who is in charge now. By the way , a good scouting report on players is on the trade machine, you hit the players name and than hit on Hollinger, gives a good description on defense and the little things, evidently Miller is a great defensive rebounder from the 3 and 2 position, that sure helps.
With a core of Brand, Young, Dala, Williams, Speights, and Smith- Miller $9.5 million, Theo $1 million, Rush $1 million, Ivey $1million,Marshall $1 million (Expire at the end of the year) $13-$14 million; I would try to move either Green, Dalembert, and Green for more cap relief and possible picks- What we could end up with a tthe end of the year is a situation with possibly $15-$20 million in cap room several picks and a tremendous opportunity to continue to build a core to williams, Young, Dala, Brand, Speights, and Smith. If Stefanski hits on a draft pick or two and supplements the $15-$20 million with two pieces the Sixers could certainly be formidable. The pieces I would be looking at are Point Guard and Shoooting guard- Sixers must be patient and ride this out so they can make the necessary moves at a more opportune time.
Suede: Kevin McHale might very well have said that, but I sincerely doubt there’s any truth in the statement. That would be like Larry Brown saying he’s not ever involved in personnel decisions when coaching, which of course we all know know is BS.
When it comes down to it…I think from Minny’s perspective a pretty big thing on their minds is that Al Jefferson is their franchise player, or at least a legit frontcourt alpha dog for years to come. Given that:
1. Al Jefferson is not a good defensive player; it makes sense to have a purely defensive oriented center playing with him.
2. Al Jefferson’s a natural PF, not C, in any way shape or form. It would hugely benefit to have a C in there to slide him back to his natural position, much as Shaq has done for Amare in Phoenix.
3. David Love is their piece for the future, and they don’t seem to trust throwing him in the frontcourt with Al Jefferson for huge minutes each game because of either youth or height combination issues.
4. Ryam Gomes (who plays SF half the time now anyway) and Craig Smith (while very talented) are both undersized.
5. They have squadoosh in the way of veteran backups to give them some size and defense.
Given those five things, it makes a lot of sense for them to pursue Dalembert. It lets Jefferson play PF, will improve their team defense, allow guards to gamble more, and he’ll alter plenty of shots. And since D-Bere has three years on his deal, it’ll allow them to bring David Love off the bench nice and slowly, ready to be given the reigns (if they decide he has the talent) during D-Bere’s contract year.
It would also make Craig Smith’s contract movable, and there would definitely be some interest for him as a backup big to provide some punch.
I find it interesting that so many fans what to discard Sammy despite Philly having a poor run with big men since Moses Malone. You guys have forgotten about the days of Matt Geiger, Eric Montross, Mike Gminski, and our other Canadian friend, Todd McCullough. All of these big men were also Philly failure and some has horrible contracts like Sammy.
When I consider who we have right now and not who I want on the roster having Sammy isn’t the worse thing out there. Yeah, Sammy has become a high priced rotation player. The positive he brings is he rebounding which is sorely needed with Brand gone, shoot blocking ability, and how he runs the floor well. Granted, he still picks up silly fouls. But look at what having Sammy would mean. Most 5s don’t run the floor well. Yeah most of us wanted Josh Smith but….it didn’t happen. Who else on the roster is going to consistently rebound and block shots? Rat is good in spurts but nearing his end in the NBA. Speights is very much a rookie who has suddenly taken a disliking to rebounding and positioning himself to block shots. Jason Smith is still basically a rookie and a unknown. If you point Sammy’s poor side D then I counter the entire team defensive system remains broke. What other NBA the past three years has allowed more uncontested layups and 3 point shot attempts? I’m not sure but Philly is at or near the top.
The bottom line is Ed can replace Sammy with equal talent or better at the 5 we are better off with Sammy right now. When Brand returns split out most of Sammy’s minutes when Brand is off the floor. Maybe Sammy and Speights can co-exist together and hurt the squad too much.
DaveT., If I remember correctly a source in the organization said at the time that coaching was McHales last stop and he would have very little say in personnel moves and I think that is a positive in possibly getting Miller. Maybe a new voice that is not attached to Minn. players as much will make a move he wouldn!t. Ken, the problem with Sam is he can!t be sat because he will just bitch and moan. As jumpin brought up, I believe his attitude as much as his shortcomings is the reason he is being shopped.I may be wrong, but seeing this team play better for stretches last year, with J.Smith as a backup, and this year with another rookie next to Reggie and also with a player ,well past his prime, defending the post as well, that we may not miss him that much. E.S. and the coaches must be seeing some bad effort plays and other things to come to this decision. Theo is flat out a better player for 5 to 8 min. stretches, Marreese is getting 8 pts. and 4 reb. and close to a block in about 15 to 20 minutes and Jason, in spite of his shortcomings got 5 pts. and 3 reb. and a block in 15 min. last year so if we get better down the offensive and and stay even down the defensive end we will be a better team. Plus Reggie seems to have as much an effect on our STYLE as any player on this roster and this may open up a few extra minutes for him, a guy who!s effort is never in question.
By the way, Thad, offensively looks better at the 4 lately and Elton getting at least 12 minutes a night at the 5 is a distinct possibility. So we should be able the 5 position without an addition there if he is moved.
By the way again, I read on another blog that A.Gargano on W.I.P. said Sammy was offered to Denver for Kenyon Martin. It doesn!t make much sense on the surface but they may want Nene at the 4 and could it be possible the Sixers like how the team plays with Spieghts at the 5 and are looking for a veteren that has a similar game, that is the only conclusion I get from a move like that.
Suede, if that rumor is accurate it just reinforces EBRAND spending time in the middle. Also, that they are looking for some attitude.
Put me on the “careful what you wish for” side of this debate. Personally, I think that Miller is the commodity that will get the most back in a trade, because of his expiring contract, and that upgrading the PG position will give this team the most bang for the buck.
I predict that if we trade Sammy, it will be for some other team’s problem player with a bad contract, and not an expiring contract or picks, etc. And unless ES is a genius at finding a diamond in the rough, that sounds to me like a typical BK trade – our problem for yours, the difference being that Sammy actually contributes a bit, unlike many overpaid problem players.
I think Miller may be the last person that the team should move, unless you can find a young PG with promise which is not going to happen. IMO he has been the best player on the team for the last 2 years and he doesn’t look to be slowing down. Who would you give his minutes to right now, Lou or Ivey? I don’t feel comfortable with that. I don’t really seeing us getting out bid this summer for him with everyone waiting on 2010, and I doubt he would take less money to play else where given that it will probably be the last contract he ever signs. Maybe, just maybe the Lakers would offer him some money but I really don’t see it happening with their hopes for Farmar.
Sammy makes the most sense. Yes he does provide a much needed skill set, but we have a solid rotation back there, and could probably fair just as well with out him. The only thing that worries me is Speights lack of rebounding, but he does spend most of his time on the court with Sammy and Reggie, and I think that may be affecting his nubers more than a lack of effort. He also needs to step it up on the defensive end, but I think that will come with in game experience and a little help from the weight room.
Either way, I hope and am sure something will happen. Hopefully whatever does is for the best.
I would be really pissed if they traded sammy for kmart. how would that help the team at all? Maybe 5 yrs ago before the injuries, but not now.
Ryan: my reasoning is that this team’s biggest problem is a lack of consistent jump shooting, and is not a center who makes a couple boneheaded plays per game and has bad hands. Therefore, assuming Igoudala and Thad Young aren’t going anywhere, the best way to address the jump shooting issue is via the PG position. Resigning Miller would be a terrible idea, in my opinion, so the best way to get value for him is via a trade since I don’t think simply letting his contract expire helps our cap situation all that much.
I do second you that Sammy for K Mart sounds terrible.
Let me start off by saying I’m a big Sammy fan, but, unlike most of you, I think he has contributed greatly to our success. He’s our best rebounder, our best defender, and our best shot blocker. However, I do agree with you on one thing, it’s time, I too would like to see him go. Unfortunately, I’ve come to the conclusion he’ll never develop his potential in Philadelphia, and I’m not sure he’ll develop it anywhere else either, but definitely not in Philly.
Without going into details, I feel that the Sixers have done a very poor job of bringing him along and developing his skills, especially in the off season. With the exception of that one year at Pete Newell’s big man’s camp, they’ve left him alone, to improve on his own. One of my biggest complaints is that they’ve always wanted him to develop a post game, but they would never throw him the ball in the post. How can you develop a post game when you never get the ball in the post? Realistically speaking, they’ve never included him in the offense, and have always played 4 on 5, a strategy which, in my opinion, has hurt us considerably. As far as Sam’s production dropping off this year, that has more to do with PT than anything else. Currently Sam is averaging: 8.4 rpg, 6.0 ppg in 25.1 mpg. Last year he averaged 10.4 rpg, 10.5 ppg in 33.2 mpg. The difference between his game this year and last year is opportunity, or lack thereof.
Again, in my opinion, if we’re going to trade Sam, we’ll need to get a center in return. Spreights and Brand are both 4’s, they wont be able to defend at the 5. Elton’s too short, and his heart wont be in it. While Spreights isn’t nearly physical enough to play Center, he’ll get eaten alive on the defensive end. The best trade I see out there for the Sixers is Brad Miller of the Kings. I think Miller for Dalembert is a trade that will fill voids for both teams. Brad can give us some outside shooting and some “heady play”, while Sam gives the Kings a defensive presence inside: rebounds, blocks, and some much needed athletic prowess. In the end, I’m not sure if we get the best of this deal, but it’s time for Sam to leave Philadelphia, and I don’t think we can do any better than this.
Dannie in response to your asking me if I thought that Thad more then a 3rd banana based on only the last game, no bro It’s based on his impending unstopable low post game. It’s based on his intangibles, his desire to play good defense. His desire to run the court harder and faster then just about anyone. That freakin hook shot is Armon Gilliam style unstopable! Ofcourse his weakness is his ball handling, but you have to admire how much better he has gotten toting the rock from year one to year 2. When you look into his eyes you see someone that you want to root for, a great kid without the look of a loser ala Iguodala or the look of an idiot ala Sammy Malaka.
Also as most people who know me in here know that I despise Sammy D. Aka the dumbest player in the history of the league. Why wouldn’t it be good to trade him for a 2nd rounder just like the guido said? What if we trade him are we done in our quest for a ring this year? We all know that we aint winning Jack **** this year right? Isn’t getting rid of sammy’s 23 million dollars of cap space over the next 2 seasons for even a can of coke worth it? To me it’s obvious, ship that Mo-Ron!
Also this 48 days until the trade deadline boys!
48 days until the trade deadline boys!
LA Steve – I disagree with comment
For one in the NBA guys pretty much always workout on their own and hire personal trainers to help with their development. That speaks to the individual drive of the player in question if he doesn’t do this on his own. Besides that it’s well documented Moses Malone has tried to work with Sam and to this day is still will the team and available as a mentor for any Sixers big men.
Greek - Key word: impending aka potential aka not realized at the moment and the possibility of never being realized. I hope he does, but I am just a little tired of hearing potential this and potential that. I really just want production now and wins now. The Sixers have been living in bad team/rebuilding land since the 2001 Finals run.
Also this whole talk about trading Sam for a 2nd round pick is nonsense. Not only because a starting center in the top 15 in rebounding, blocks and double doubles nearly every season and is still only 27 is worth more than a 2nd round pick, but by saying that you limit the trade partners to only teams vastly under the cap or have a large trade exception in order to take on his salary.
Put personal bias aside it REALLY try to think about what is best for the Sixers. Giving Sam away for nothing is clearly not.
You can’t point the finger at the club for Sammy’s inabilities on the offensive end. They have put him in the position to succeed, they have put people around him to try to solidify his game. You could even argue that the Sixers poor shooting percentage at times has given him the opportunity to be better on the offensive glass, and has helped his numbers. At the end of the day, the only person responsible for development is the player.
Bottom line: Sammy is a good rebounder and shot blocker, only because of his length and athleticism. He is not a good basketball player, and it doesn’t look like anyone could of changed that.
Me personally, I could live with him or without him. He is a valuable center because of his strengths, and should not be moved for nothing. Only if the deal has the ability to help the team, and a 2nd rnd pick is not going to do that. I wouldn’t mind having him around for a while, but if it means improving the Sixers by moving him, I am all for it. As long as he isn’t just given away.
And I am not sure what success you were thinking of. The only way you can call a late season push to 2 games under .500 and a first round exit success is if you follow it up by improving the next year, and that certainly is not the case. The Sixers have only won more than 40 games once in the last 5 years, I see no success in that at all. So I think the proper statement would be that all of the Sixers have greatly contributed to our lack of success.
Ryan’s last paragraph in #78 and Morty’s post #68 pretty much sums up how I feel about Dalembert. Is he perfect? Far from it. Do I think we must keep him? No. That said, he does have strengths that help the club that we may find ourselves missing were he no longer here.
Look, we are losing mostly because we are #21 in the league in FG% (even with the 18ppg we score on the break), #30 in 3-pt%, and #27 in FT%. We can’t shoot! There is no way you can lay a large portion of the blame for this at Dalembert’s feet.
I really see Miller as the more pressing issue here. The PG situation is staring us in the face and should take precedence, IMO. However you feel about it, it must be decided whether or not we are keeping Miller (Should we? Do we even want to? Does he even want to stay?). Hopefully, ES has a good read on this. If Miller will not be with us next year, we must have an answer at PG very soon.
I also hope that ES has a good idea about how he is going to improve this team. We simply must get better at putting the ball in the basket. To that end, I’m ok with moving Miller or Dalembert (among others). If ES does it to get cap space to land a free agent, fine. If he does it to stockpile draft picks with an eye toward packaging a few with a player in another deal, fine. I just want to see that he is addressing our issues and improving the team.
I keep hoping that ES is able to swing a mega deal for a superstar. If not, I have a feeling things are going to have to get a lot worse before they get better. Funny thing is that I would probably prefer that to spinning our wheels year after year, having false hopes, and ending up somewhere on the margins of respectability. It’s too darn frustrating.
Guys, could E.S. be thinking by adding a 5 that can shoot and score the ball that maybe that allows him to go back to Iggy at the 2 and Thad at the 3. We have been playing 4 on 5 offensively and adding a threat at the 5 may allow us to go with the original lineup. Dannie, remember how we were hammering teams on the boards at the beginning of the year,Iggy at the 2 had something to do with that plus if that lineup is used does that make up for the rebounding and defense that Sammy would have provided.
One other thing guys, does moving Sammy get Marshall more minutes ?
+Blski and Morty, I really think L.Will. is the reason A.Miller gets traded or A.Miller gets signed. Just like E.Snow was kept here because of A.I., A.Miller is needed[a big p.g.] if L.Will. is going to be a 30 min. player here. There are no big p.g.!s available in college or in the pro!s right now so unless L.Will. is our future p.g. than I believe A.Miller is staying, plus I think they play real well together.
Reply to Dannie’s comment; What you say is true, for the most part, but when it comes to young players who are new to the game there are exceptions, for example: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, has spent his last four summers working with Andrew Bynum on a program approved by Laker Management. LeAndro Barbosa worked out several summers under the Dan D’Antoni and even during the regular season he was often referred to as LeAndro’s developmental coach.
As far a Moses goes he was hired as a part time consultant his first year, a full time assistant coach the next year, and a part time consultant last year. As far as I know, he never worked with Sam during the off season. Besides, I not sure Moses is the right coach for Sam. Sam needs help with the finesse aspects of playing Center, like: footwork, fakes, shooting from the post, using his left had, etc. I’m not sure Moses is the right guy to coach that stuff, after all, his game was strength, determination, and guts not finesse.
The bottom line is the Sixer’s invested $64 million over 6 years on a young player, (who was new to the game), based on his physical potential. If I was in their (Sixers’ Management) position, I would have done everything possible to leverage the investment. I would have insisted that Sammy spend his summers working with the best developmental coaches available, and attending the best camps too. I would have reviewed his progress with his coaches, and done everything possible to maximize his progress. Following Sam as closely as I have over the years, I’m sure he would have been more than happy to participate in anything that would make him a better player. Unfortunately, the Sixers didn’t follow that path.
I have a trade that may work for both teams.
Sixers trades Sammy, Willie & Lou Will(not my preference but gotta give to get) & KRush
Minn trades Mike Miller, Corey Brewer, Sebastian Telfair & Jason Collins plus a number 1 draft pick.
is this fair for both teams?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3191~987~558~2417~991~2004~1725~2799&teams=20~20~20~20~16~16~16~16&te=&cash=
S.F.W., basically Sam/ L.Will. for M.Miller, I wouldn!t do that. L.Will. for Miller,maybe.
You feel Corey Brewer has no upside???
I would rather have McCants unless Brewer could get us a 2 guard. K-Mart for Sam and Rush ? Do K-Mart and Spieghts have similar games ?
I think the Andre Miller thing will resolve itself. I would assume that ES is already trying to decide how to play his cards with this one. I think it is going to come down to whether or not they want him, not if he wants us. I don’t see him going to someone other than a contender for less money on the last contract he will most likely ever sign, or at least the last valuable contract that is. Most contenders already have younger PG in place. I really don’t see any decent or sub .500 team throwing a ton of money at him with 2010 right around the corner, so it is going to be about what the team wants to do. Right now I think if he is moved you take a step back, unless you get a player of the same caliber in return. The only players on his level other than Kidd are a few years younger, and their teams arent gonna swap talent for talent and lose years. Push come to shove you have 9 million in cap when the year is up.
sfw-I would do that deal in a second. thats pretty much Sam/Willie/Lou for Miller/Brewer, who I think will be a very nice 6th man one day.
I would never even dream that Minnesota would do that though. I would doubt that they would be willing to move Miller and him.
Ryan, NeitherMiller nor Brewer are playing now. Seems like they want Foye at the 2 guard. They may love to have a Lou Will-Foye backcourt.
Also, Gomes is playing the majority of minutes at the 3. Might work. Minn really needs a point if Foye is going to be a 2 guard. Maybe, Lou caould be their answer. We also wouldn’t be going against the fast break philosophy. Telfair can backup at the point for the time being. I also like Brewer off the bench. Can bring great defense at multiple positions.
Suede, I guess they do. I don’t mind that deal. Brings an attitude in addition to Reggie.
My issue ,S.F.W. you know I loved him coming out of college, is getting the right positions filled, Ryan if they would stop trying to change his form he could get back to being a very good shooter. An Iggy, Thad and Cory threesome would be something defensively but only if one of them could play 32 minutes at the 2 , that is the key.
Ryan F – The Sixers are over the cap now so if they simply let Miller’s $9.9M fall off at the end of the season they will only be $3-4 million under the cap to sign another player not $9M. Just FYI.
Corey Brewer, jury is still out. He is only 22 but I think there is a high possibility he ends up being a bust. I would take him if he could develop into a Bruce Bowen with more talent. Outstanding defender, who can defend three positions and can make open shots (threes in particular).
LA Steve – My question to you is how do you know the Sixers didn’t do everything they could in support of Sam’s development? Is it simply the mere fact that he hasn’t gotten better offensively or with his bball IQ? Or do you have information we are all not privy to?
I believe Moses was the perfect mentor for the role the Sixers wanted Sam to play. Defender and rebounder. Not to mention putting Sam with a guy with a proven track record of hard work and mentorship of a hard headed young player (Barkley). If Moses couldn’t get through to Sam I doubt anyone could.
All I am saying is I certainly don’t think we should or can ignore the very likely possibility that Sam’s lack of development is in large part due to Sam himself.
Isn’t Iggy that 2 guard? Also, Brewer is a 2 guard and Miller is supposed to be a facilitator in the 1/2 court offense. Don’t know. If Mccants is in the deal give me 2 no. 1 picks.
Ryan F: You make a point that most people don’t seem to be bringing up: “Most contenders already have younger PG in place. I really don’t see any decent or sub .500 team throwing a ton of money at him with 2010 right around the corner”.
I agree with this completely…people have talked about how easy A-Miller will be to move closer to the trade deadline. I just don’t see this happening. All very good over .500 teams have PG’s in place, younger PG’s they are grooming, or a nice balance of the two, and really don’t need his services. The only other teams that would want him are to let his salary come off the cap…and there are about 7 players with far better cap-clearing deals out there than A-Miller.
If a trade happens, it’s going to be with Sammy. We are not going to move Iguodala given how much ES just committed to him, and A-Miller will be VERY hard to move. I’d be ok with letting his contract run out to get some extra space under the cap. But we need to somehow get a young PG to groom…this should be our biggest priority.
The only other “movable” assets I see on our team is Willie Green, and future conditional draft picks. Possibly Lou Williams, but I doubt it. Jason Smith is recovering from a major injury and thus will have no takers; Reggie Evans has 3 more years on his contract, and while IMO he’s not too overpaid for what he brings, I think the feeling around the league is that he is. We’re obviously not going to move Brand, and no way we’re going to let go of Speights or Thad Young.
Moses Malone on Sam D: I heard him in an interview recently where Mike Miscenelli asked him just that question: “Moses, what’s wrong with Sam? How come he can’t toughen up?” Moses answered without answering, saying that Sam has improved “in his own way”, and that you can’t change a guy’s character…he is what he is. He also added the fans get on Sam too much, and that expectations should be realisitic, and that Sam will provide what he provides: defense and rebounding, and should in no way expected to be an offensive force or threat. (not my opinion, this is what Moses said).
I have no clue how NBA finances work Dannie, that stuff is a league of its own, but definitely nice to know. I am not interested in letting that happen anyway, but it didn’t sound AS bad when I thought it would be 9 mill.
DaveT., its funny how things that don!t happen can win you a championship. Reading a good book [christmas gift] about how the 1984 draft changed the N.B.A. . The Sam Bowie chapter talks about how in 1981 he heard threw the grapevine that the Sixers were trying to get in the top 5 picks to draft him because they thought they couldn!t win with Dawkins as their center, what could of been, ouch !!!
By the way, he got hurt in 82 and had to redshirt, so things didn!t work out for Sam either, if he left in 81 maybe he doesn!t get hurt and becomes a very good instead of pretty good player.
Suede – Are you talking about THIS BOOK.
Dannie, yes it is, my daughter went to Montclair for a year, the home of the author.
I have a 3 team, 10 player trade that only B. King would love. I think it helps all 3 teams and would give our Sixers a FRESH start, so to speak. Miami, with Beasley in their future is in dire need of a center that can protect the rim and with Wade possibly looking to leave in the future they can!t be too patient. The Sixers could use a long athletic 2 guard that can hit the 3 and cap space to become a PLAYER for a big star in the next year or two and Chicago needs some dependable front court players and cap room to resign Gordon this offseason. Well here it is; Miami trades U.Haslem, S.Marion and Dq.Cook, they get in return Sammy,Henrich and Nucioni. A Wade/Chalmers/Henrich backcourt and a Beasley/Sam/ Nucioni front line spreads the court and defensively Hinrich and Nucioni are an upgrade on Cook and D.Wright.The Bulls give up Hinrich,Nucioni and Noa and get Haslem, Spieghts and A.Miller[ along with Gooden clears 17 mill. in cap space].The Sixers trade Sammy,A.Miller and Spieghts[you have to give to get] and get back D.Cook,Noah,[sorry Danny] and 17.5 mill. in cap relief [S.Marion]. A young core [Thad,L.Will., Cook, Noah,Iggy,Jason and our #1 [Lawson,Collison] along with Elton and hopefully either [ Sheed or Turkaglu] or wait till 2010 and find THAT guy.
Suede – Hold that thought. I have a similar trade that is less complicated and doesn’t have anything to do with losing Speights or acquiring the dreaded Noah. Tomorrow morning I will post it.