The Orlando Pro Summer League starts today at 3pm. As many of you know, the Sixers do not have a full squad this year. They have a dual team with the New Jersey Nets. The Sixers’ players on the roster are:
- Jrue Holiday
- Dionte Christmas
- Marreese Speights
- Blake Ahearn
- Gary Forbes
- Rob Kurz
- Marcus Slaughter
Here is the Sixers’ schedule, opponent and potential point guard match-up for Jrue Holiday:
- 7/6 – 3pm vs. Indiana (Aaron Jackson/A.J. Price)
- 7/7 – 5pm vs. Utah (Holiday vs. Maynor )
- 7/8 – 7pm vs. Orlando (Holiday vs. Levance Fields/Jermey Pargo/Russell Robinson)
- 7/9 – 3pm vs. Oklahoma City (Holiday vs. Russell Westbrook/Shaun Livingston)
- 7/10 – 1pm vs. Boston (Lester Hudson/Gabe Pruitt/Chris Lofton/Darius Washington)
You can watch the games only here.
What do you hope to see from Holiday, Christmas and Speights this summer that will carry over into the season? Me…
Marreese Speights - Defense, rebounding and low block offense – in that order. We know Speights is decent offensively already. He has a sweet shot and has shown signs of a legit NBA post game. What we don’t know is whether or not he knows how, is capable of or willing to play defense at a high level. With his size and athleticism, he should be a much better defender. I especially want to see him defending other back-to-the-basket players and in pick-and-roll situations. I really feel like he could be good defending the pick-and-roll since he isn’t this big, slow, laboring front court player.
Last year Speights was a good offensive rebounder but an inconsistent rebounder overall. He needs to prove he has the motor and tenacity to get after on the boards.
Offensively I just want to see him show two things:
- A go-to post move
- Effective counter move when his first option is taken away
That’s it. Two moves and the ability to finish them. I am not even that concerned with his ability to transition from go-to into his counter just yet. Just that he has them both in his repertoire. His reactive ability and execution will come with more game reps.
Jrue Holiday - Leadership from the point guard position, vision and passing/play-making ability, signs of a jumpshot. This is the point guard of the future; the first thing I want to see is how he runs the point, dictates the action, directs his teammates and his court demeanor. I want to see a leader out there, not just a kid playing summer ball.
I’ve heard about Holiday’s vision and passing ability. We’ll need to see it. He should be running the point now, no more excuse of being off the ball. Finally he needs to show signs of having a jumper. He doesn’t have to shoot the lights out or anything, but his jumper needs to be good enough where teams respect him enough to go over the top on pick-and-rolls. I hate watching teams just go under screens over and over again against Andre Miller and not creating that switch and mismatch.
Too much to ask? Maybe, but that’s what the expectations are when you are viewed as the point guard of the future for a franchise.
Dionte Christmas – NBA three point consistency, perimeter defense and, to a lesser degree right now, moving without the ball to get open for shots. When you are coined a shooter coming out of college the first thing you must prove is that it translates to the next level. If Christmas can show he is a knock-down shooter already at that range, he has a very good chance of making this squad. The second thing he must do is prove he can defend at this level. He isn’t known as the quickest, most athletic player but neither was Aaron McKie. I really am hoping McKie takes him under his wing and helps to develop Christmas’ game in his own mold (smart, solid, savvy pro on the wing with a jumper who defends). We need a player like that on this team.
His game will rise to another level if he becomes more than just a stand still perimeter shooter and can actually thrive in an offense where plays are run for him where he is moving to get open off screens and is capable of getting his shot off quickly with accuracy.
The other guys I don’t know enough about to judge so I’ll be eager to watch these guys and see who makes the final roster come training camp.
Leave comments below on your thoughts on what you’re looking for and how guys are doing this summer and any insights you have.
{ 96 comments… read them below or add one }
Good point and comparison about Christmas and McKie. I hadn’t really thought about that though it makes sense for a number of reasons. The Sixers have not had a player like that in a while. Someone who can come off the bench, rely on, make clutch plays down the stretch, and legitemately defend.
Nice steal by Jrue!
These announcers are terrible. Hansborough’s first shot was ungly and rejected.
I couldn’t agree more Greek! But they brought up an interesting point, even though it is Summer League, what system are the Netsters playing?
Good start by Speights, just like last Summer League! He needs to continue playing at a high level now that Evans is no longer with the Sixers. I hope Dionte Christmas will be a part of our roster come October!
Any further news on Andre Miller? I think it might narrow down to Miller or Blake as our next starting PG for the Sixers!
Speights is tearing it up!
Thanks for this guys. I must say I’m watching everybody making moves and it’s a little disappointing to see us do nothing. Vince, Rasheed, Artest, I know we only have the mid level exception, but why wait until all the good, or even decent guys are gone and then pick through the trash. It’s going to be another long disappointing season.
Certainly the top 3 teams in the East have made noise, but I think our team, depending on whether Miller or Blake is our starting PG, can certainly catch that 4th or 5th seed!
Pete G – I hadn’t really thought of it either until I got to his part of this post and it just hit me especially since Aaron McKie will be doing a lot of the coaching of Sixers guys in Summer league. I if Christmas turns out to be like McKie with a better shot I would love to have him on the roster for 10 years.
TT32 – Patience. I actually don’t think they should use their MLE at all. I think they can get a vet point guard for the minimum to start and help Jrue along and let Miller walk. If they do use their MLE it should only be for 2 years. I don’t think they should be signing anyone for longer than 2 seasons.
Ok I hear that I really think they should go ahead and sign Miller for 2 years at 10 mil it’s the same he was making last year or make the Blake deal. Second how is Christmas doing? I can’t follow these announcers, they’re the worst.
Greek & Rob: Since you are able to watch, would either of you mind writing up a summary after the game? It sure would be reassuring to hear something good about Holiday.
I am watching on and off with no sound for today. Will be home in time tomorrow and Wednesday to watch on my home computer which is much faster so shouldn’t be as hard to see.
Nothing much to report, but it’s only the 1st day of Summer League. Hopefully, through this week, things will be more interesting!
Nothing much from Holiday. (he had a nice steal and block in two possessions)
Speights for the Sixers has been rocking it!
Chris-Douglas Roberts for the Nets has been great.
Also, having the right commentators is important! Otherwise, you lose your audience!! By that, I say “Thank You Marc Zumoff!!” for being our commentator and hope you get a great color commentator like Doug Collins or Rick Mahorn!
Marcus Slaughter – I got a chance to watch a few games with him when he was on San Diego St. He’s got real potential to be a gem in the rough for an NBA team…the guy REALLY knows how to rebound and attack the glass. Definitely takes full advantage of his body and knows how to throw it around and get physical. Not a huge need for us since we have Brand, Speights, Thad and J Smith…but a 6-9 tough nosed type like Slaughter deserves to be picked up by someone.
I’m only going on the box score since I didnt watch the game…Jrue: 3/11 FG, 9 pts, 2 ast, 4 rbd…5 TO’s.
I think evaluating players by stats alone in the summer league is utterly foolish and meaningless, far more useful is to eyeball the players and see their skill set, decision making and how they approach different on court situations. So, that said, did Jrue show any glimpses of being able to run a team in game 1 for the people that watched? What were people’s observations?
Morty this is david thorpe who blogged or tweeted this during the game
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-28/David-Thorpe-Livetweeting-from-Summer-League.html
Did Christmas play at all? I don’t know where to find boxscores.
From what I saw, Holiday is a good defender. Doesn’t reach, took a really nice charge. I won’t judge him too hard after one game about his shooting which was awful. He can handle, but here’s hoping is not an AI pound it into the floor kind of guy. He took a lot of shots and at least twice he dribbled away the shot clock. Speights was good but mostly on the outside, shooting j’s no low post moves and I couldn’t find Christmas.
Gotta miss the old Lou Williams/Lou Amundson combo from summer leagues past. Maybe they will return with Salmons for the summer League Legends game?
Dannie, today on hoopshype it says Portland may skip the free agent crop and use their cap space in a trade. If we sign A.Miller to the most we can give him for 3 years and move him straight up for Blake [4.9] they only use about 2 to 3 mill. in cap space, I believe, because without going into luxury tax territory we have less than 8 mill. to give. Do you think we would explore this option?
This summer league is going to be awful. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea to be cheap and have a joint team. Speights was gunning and shooting too many jumpers, Holiday was good on defense, weak on offense but from what I saw it was too much of a mixed bag since both teams wanted to get their players touches and shots. It’s not at all indicative of how a real game would play out. Christmas only took 3 shots.
Some quotes:
And by run the offense he meant be the primary guy that brings the ball up – that’s it. This is no offense with which to run. Which is why having this joint team was a blunder on the part of the Sixers.
Smart move would have been to have their own team, with their own coaches teaching the young guys (including Lou – I don’t care that he is off his rookie deal and Thad) on the roster and speed up learning process for those players. They all will play and be relied on to produce this year. The idea is the young guys will take longer to get it, so start them earlier. Then you work with the older guys during training camp with the young players already having been running the offense and learning their spots, reads and reactions.
Sixers screwed this summer up by being cheap.
Suede – I am sure the Sixers will explore all options. Stefanski apparently contacted the Rockets to try and dump Sammy to them. Houston wisely passed.
If we could get Blake and take back less salary I think that is a good deal for us. I don’t think we need Travis Outlaw. I don’t see where he would play much on our team. And as much as people seem to like Bayless I don’t see the point in acquiring him now either. He isn’t ready to step in and start right now so essentially it would be competing with Holiday as the point guard of the future. Get Blake and less salary and I will be happy with that.
Hawks sign Bibby for 3 years $18 million (RealGM reports), and earlier it was reported Dallas resiging Kidd for 3 years $25 million.
The combined Kidd and Bibby contracts should definitely help the league standard when we discuss extensions or sign-trade options with A-Miller’s agent. No way he gets anything in the $9-10 million range now. While $6 would be ideal for any team looking to sign him, I’m sure A-Miller will push for $8, and the compromise will probably be around $7-7.5 million for a three year deal. As much as we or Portland only want it to be two years, I think A-Miller will get the 3rd.
Dave T – I disagree. Miller has NO leverage. Absolutely none. The market has been set by a young point and older point. Miller is right in between. If Miller gets three years it won’t (better not) come from the Sixers. It can be a sign and trade with Portland (mistake on their part as well) but if the Sixers give him 3-years they will have made a mistake.
Miller can’t do anything right now, the teams with cap space don’t need him that bad to drive the price or terms up, even Portland.
2-years $14.5 – $15M is the offer take it or leave it. Or find someone that will do a sign and trade. End of story.
Typical NBA summer league: Sixers had nine assists, 22 TO.
Sixers have some interest in Carney for minimum. Blogged about that and Andre Miller not returning the Sixers’ call to talk about a possible extension last summer.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/opinions/blogs/intell_blogs/tom_moore.html
Don’t worry about Sixers giving Miller three years, Dannie: Not even sure if they’d go two, at this point. Think they’re ready to move on and take a longer look at Williams to see if he can start in this league, as well as give Holiday regular minutes.
Dannie, Tom, I’ve just read that now Miller’s agent is saying how good of a fit would Andre be in Portland… the missing piece to put them over the top, take pressure off Roy etc… LOL
I hope Miller remains a Sixer (2 year, 15 mill?), but the clock is ticking. Interesting to see how Stefanski plays his cards now
Tom: That is very encouraging.
The Sixers were stifled in the second half due to CD-R jacking it up…The announcers were trashed from the start, the guy was talking about drinking straight Jack out of a thermus…It was like Beavis & Butthead commentating a ball game, and then they started front running for the Magic in the next game
Holiday looked bad on Offense maybe because of the lack of anytype of system, and Speights & CD-R being black holes, but Jrue didn’t seem aggressive at all on that end, but absolutely shut down on D, which is promising due to the fact A. Miller is a sieve
Also Rob Kurz didn’t look to bad, who is he signed to/auditioning for Nets or Sixers
Dannie will you put a new link for tomorrow’s game or can I just click on the same one from yesterday?
TT32 – You should be able to use the same link. It just takes you to the Orlando Summer League website. There is that huge white button (says Click here to watch live) at the top right of the page. It’s always there. Just click it whenever the Sixers are set to play and your good.
Garvey – Rob Kurz is on the Sixers side of the summer league squad.
Just looked at some of the free agents out there…What about Von Wafer from Houston. I know, “Whos That” but if you look at his numbers he’s efficient when given time, and 6′ 5”. Cheap answer for shooting guard?
If they decide not to keep Dionte Christmas on the team Von Wafer is a good option for another shooting guard.
My understanding is they want a point guard (Andre Miller or other) and center before they look into adding anymore more wing players.
What centers are available?
-A couple Eddie Jordan guys are out there which I’m scared of: (Michael Ruffin-Not as good as Tyrone Hill but just as ugly)
PG Juan Dixon – he always played well against us but, eh.
Centers:
Adonal Foyle – There was a time when I wanted this guy on the sixers. Local too. Had good block per min numbers like Theo.
Chris Wilcox – Maybe too undersized, think Kenny Thomas.
Brian Skinner – Scrappy but undersized.
Johan Petro – Never really given playing time. 7 Footer.
Lorenzen Wright? Eh
- Couple restricted guys I like who could be there:
Juan Carlos Navarro
Jarret Jack
- If Billy King was still here: Shavlik Randolph
Even though he may not have a shot…ok he doesn’t have a shot, Blake Ahern didn’t look teribly bad, he seems to be able to control the offense well, and shot above average, however defensively A. Miller comes to mind
Bubba: Nice suggestions. Wilcox wouldn’t really be an option though. Even though it’s clear all that athletic talent and upside will never pan out (hopefully Holiday will be the opposite, though I am skeptical), he’s still an above average talent that has proven he can score in double figures, and I’m sure will land a contract along the lines of what Brandon Bass is seeking: $3-5 million per.
Off that list, the best cheap option that has talent is Brian Skinner. Tough nosed guy, good defender, good rebounder, is a pro’s pro, and has always surprised me in that he can actually provide some competant offense with occassional put back buckets and some decent post moves. He’s always been a good backup, and I’ll take him over Petro any day.
Navarro: All the reports Ive read the last two years basically say the same thing…he doesn’t like the NBA game, feels it’s too one on one and selfish oriented, and likes playing in Europe better (where he is a super hero and makes better money anyway). Even if he did want to come back, I can’t see ES offering him the money Navarro would want (probably $3 million per).
Jarret Jack: That’s a pretty intriguing option. Restricted though, and very doubtful Larry Bird would not match. JJack seems like one of those players a bit like Earl Watson…certainly capable of starting, and would put up a regular 4-6 assists per…but not an ideal guy you want at the helm long term. That said, he is young and still could improve, and has been in a logjam situation at PG for five straight years. I’m curious to see what he’d do with 32-35 mpg.
That said, doesn’t make sense for our team, since we’d want an older vet to take Holiday under his wing, not compete with him for time.
…an interesting option that would be a very inexpensive, risk/reward cheap player to gamble on: Robert Swift. Injury bug bit him hardcore throughout his career, but when he got minutes, Swift really started to come on over the years. He definitely improved his game. Not ideal, but if we are choosing scraps from the table, I’ll go with a guy that has SOME upside still left in him, rather then a guy we know is a career backup.
I would love to have jaun carlos navarro. These games suck because of the horrendous camera, shitty announcers, and the sharing of a team.
Way to pick your team greek, wish i was a little smarter as a youngster and didn’t turn on those sixer games. Now my team shares summer league teams, wow how pathetic. Anyways he i am ready to watch the end summer league game.
They’re calling us the PhilaJersey Scrapple
That was a horrifying game, thanks sixers for sharing a team.
Can’t wait until Andre Miller is officially a non 76′er.
Let Lou run the point for a year then maybe we could trade him the next season after he lands us straight in the lottery which wouldn’t be the worst thing when you add that pick to Sammy and Willie’s expiring contracts in one year.
Although even with Lou as a starting PG I still think that we will finish about 46-36
Dannie, the center I want is R.Hollins, a 7 footer that runs the floor. A possible bi-annual signing who had an impact in some of Dallas!s playoff games last year. With Gortat and Dampier in Dallas he may want to play elsewhere.
What was Stafanski thinking sharing a summer league team? How much did they save? Having the young guys with the new coach in the summer would have been a good start for everyone. Stafanski made a terrible decision. I hope Stafanski does”nt continue screwing up. Jordan needs all the support he can get.
Ryan Hollins is not a bad idea. I remember he was one of those players that actually played defense for the Mavericks that season! Plus, he can certainly convert on those lobs.
DeepSixerSued–that is using your head right there, I like that!
“(Michael Ruffin-Not as good as Tyrone Hill but just as ugly)”
LOL. Really. Up there, at Sam Cassell/Eric Williams level.
ty hill looked like an alien, but is there anyone uglier then calvin booth?
Extremely happy to read this.
Yeah, the areas of the article that talk about Andre Miller sound good, it’s the rest of it that has me a bit concerned.
Given the market for free-agent point guards, all of this means that the Sixers will look to youngsters Lou and Jrue.
“The second option is, Lou Williams is going to have a great opportunity here,” Stefanski said. “We’ve been grooming him for 4 years. We gave him a contract last year to play basketball.”
And the Sixers didn’t select Jrue Holiday with the 17th overall pick for nothing…………“The kid …we’ll see how he progresses,” said Stefanski, who allowed that a veteran backup might be necessary. “We’ll obviously go out and look for a guy for that position, too.”
Stefanski said that any veteran signed now would have to beat out Williams for the job.
“We’re going to grow with them,” said Stefanski.
Strap yourself in for the Lou and Jrue show. It should be quite a ride.
If that’s the case, then that sign and trade with Portland for Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw will become more possible!
If so, here are some interesting stats from the Trailblazers forum regarding their players in the clutch:
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=924765
Rob – Actually I don’t think so. All this talk about a sign and trade with Portland has been nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. Recently there have been a number of reports that at not point has Portland expressed interest in that sign and trade. It’s all speculation to this point. I don’t think there is the market for Andre Miller that he and his agent think. Obviously if the Sixers are playing hard ball like this they know there isn’t anyone out there that will pay this guy anywhere near the salary he wants nor give him the long-term deal he is asking for.
Sixers are actually playing this one smart. Put’s the pressure on Miller and his agent to find a sign and trade otherwise Miller will have to take what the Sixers give him.
Now that I think about it, with all the point guards in this draft and the young, extremely good points already in the league we should have seen this coming even more. No market for the type of point guard Miller is.
I guess we will have to wait until August to determine Miller’s status. Remember when the other Andre waited so long to get an offer? Nobody was looking for his services then.
Maybe Andre Miller should have kept negotiating for Andre Miller instead of using Andy Miller. My hope is when starting Lou they pair him with Iggy instead of Willie. Lou/Iggy backcourt can work. I don’t see Ja-rule starting the season at PG. Let Miller walk.
If they can’t find a trade fro him I dont want him back at all, not even for the min. Not that he isn’t worth it, but who really want’s someone on their team who has never expressed any positive emotion about being apart of it, especially an older one who will make a lot less money than he feels he deserves on a mediocre team. Would he actually even cared if we won or lost, I doubt it. Has he ever really cared, or was he just playing out a contract in search for another payday? I don’t know, because this guy is a closed book. He played some great basketball here and did enjoy watching him, but it is just time to move on either way.
I am not siked about Lou running the team either. Not because I think he’ll stink it up, he might, but I think his abilities are best served off the ball. If we go into training camp w/o any additions in the back, give Jrue the ball, unless he proves awful in the next months.
Dannie: I was very happy to read that as well.
Article from Broussard on Miller. Says pretty much the same.
I love this line from Andy Miller in the article Dannie posted:
“Andy Miller insisted that Andre always wanted to return to Philadelphia.”
What a load of BS. Can anyone remember one time…ONE TIME…in two entire years with this team that A-Miller once stated publicly that he really enjoyed playing here and wanted to be here long term? I’m fine with a player being a quiet, humble guy, which Andre is…I’m even fine with a decision to hold your cards close to your vest, business is business. But don’t hold your cards close, not revealing your thought process to ANYBODY and then say, “Oh, he always wanted to be in Philly.”
I think we are all going to need to swallow a collective Lou Williams pill…and start PRAYING that last season was just one giant long slump we should forget about. Clearly we are going in the direction of seeing what Lou can do with the reigns of this team for a year…we might as well hope for the best.
Now, I am a guy that has SMASHED Lou from day one, even when we chose him as a 2nd rounder. I just didn’t see the point in drafting a 6′2 guy that was a SG in a point guards body in high school that liked to shoot a lot. Every time his play in the summer league would have him scoring 18-19 ppg I reitereated the same thing. There has not once been a time when I have been even remotely convinced Lou is capable of running the PG slot full time.
But just like when a team gets slaughtered in the 82 game season by 30 points…sometimes you dont scream kick and yell and berate everyone for an hour in the lockeroom. Sometimes you just have to let it go and move onto the next game. I’m willing to do that with Lou, and see if he walks the walk. He’s always SAID “I’m pass first, I’ll do whatever it takes to win,” and then follows this up by hoisting up jumpshot after contested jumpshot. Maybe for 1-2 years he can improve in this area.
I have always thought Lou is capable of being an excellent 6th man off the bench because of his quickness and slashing ability…I think it’s very possible that this could be his long term role again, and that he could be effective at it. If that’s the case, that our long term projection of him is a combo guard 6th man, and Jrue’s not ready, then by all means, throw him in the fire and start Lou at PG for a short term, year long experiment. It won’t work, but it’ll improve his game for when he moves back to the bench in an instant offense role, and will allow Jrue to have a nice learning curve playing behind Lou and whatever veteran we manage to sign (hopefully Anthony Carter or Brevin Knight).
And for the record, I understand why Stefankski drafted Jrue Holiday, but I am still fuming that Ty Lawson is not going to be our starting PG this year.
Spurs signed McDyess, theyre going to be good.
It is only the summer league but Hendrix was moving Marreese anywhere he wanted tonight. Dannie, your boy Tyler hit 2 3pt.!s last night. Holliday hit a 3 and doesn!t force things, I hope he can at least become a threat from deep. A.Miller is probably going to conceed to whatever team makes him an offer by the end of the summer, I hope it isn!t us.
Suede: That’s not a knock on Speights…Richard Hendrix is the real deal, and was an absolute beast his junior year at Alabama. He should have been a 1st round pick last year. If the Magic don’t sign Bass, and retain R Hendrix from their summer team, he will be this year’s Anthony Morrow.
Ryan F: I’m with you, the Spurs adding in Richard Jefferson, McDyess, DaJuan Blair…and with Tony Parker at the peak of his game right now…certainly pushes them to the top 3 in the conference. If Manu can stay healthy, I would not want to be playing them by year’s end. Savvy additions, as they do year in and year out.
Looks like Anderson Varajao got an extension as well: 6 years, $48 million.
And being reported Marion will earn 5 years, $40 million for Dallas after the Toronto/Grizzlies trade goes down tomorrow.
Player getting WAY overpaid: A Bargnani – 5 years, $50 million. Just nuts to me Toronto offered that much, and this EARLY, in Bargnani’s career. The guy is a 6′11 guy that shies away from all physical contact, is a crappy rebounder, and basically has a nice shot from midrange and behind the arc. He is a positionless player that offers nothing on defense. He is not a true C or PF. He is in the Dirk Nowitzki mold, yet not nearly as good, and I don’t envision him getting there. Why on earth are you committing that much money to him. I don’t care they want to lock him up in case Bosh leaves, $10 million a year for him is a joke.
…and it looks like all of the Anthony Parker fans on here, myself definitely included in that camp, can finally rest all our talk about how nice of a bench addition he would have been to our team. He’s signed with the Cavs, figures haven’t been released yet.
Dannie……You’re getting your wish:
Christmas Finds a Mentor in Sixers’ McKie
The Marion deal has become a 4-Team Trade!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4314637
I just really hope that Brand doesn’t suck this year.
I am praying that a different system and PG will help, everyone join in, please
Hoopsworld writer talking about Jrue Holiday’s game (as well as James Harden and Cal’s Ryan Anderson…scroll to the bottom for Jrue:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13246
DaveT., good read; I am looking forward to a L.Will./Jrue competition for the starting p.g. spot, and I think Holliday can step in and start because he seems like a confident kid and Iggy will be there to help with the ballhandling. Without much new personnel coming in a little mystery could be a good thing and watching the summer league, I know its only the summer league, but Holliday and his R.Ivey like defense, will be enjoyable to watch on opposing p.g.!s.
Would like to see the Sixers make a run at Jack from Pacers.
Speights cannot be happy thrown into this wierd (cheap) summer league situation. Sixers not going first class here.
DaveT, Moreau seems to be reading lots of Holiday’s pre-draft press clippings with that CP3 reference. The little (painful) bit of the Sl I watched you can tell Jrue has a confident handle, is unslefish and gives full effort on the defensive ned.
But he has not shown much leadership, poise or inside touch. I’m impress how he can get in the lane when he wants, but has struggled to finish and TO prone.
I’m going to focus on the positives given his age and the setting. I think he has the handle and mentality to get minutes as a rooie, but will be more of an Ivey for his forst season. Hopefully he will develop into a lot more down the road, but we might not know for several years (till he is matbe 22 in 3 years?)
Damn typos.
As for Jack, I would like to see him added as a possible starter now and a valuable role player down the road.
But it looks like the team only wants to sign 1 year deals. They likely are over the tax after this year (even with no major additions.) So I’m not expecting any long term additions despite the bargains that are out there.
The team blew all their cash on Brand, Iguodala and Lou. Those contracts all escalate, and they counted on the tax going up over time… not down.
Wow, you guys can really see the effect this Economy has on the world, including sports! This economy sucks and it is sad that it is a reason why teams cannot make certain moves or signings due to that.
But, also, Jarrett Jack would be a wise signing.
The Blazers are looking to get Kirk Hinrich in a three team deal with the Bulls and the Jazz. I wonder if he is going to back up Steve Blake?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515
If Hinrich goes to Portland then He is the starter, no doubt about that. Then the fat/quiet man Andre Miller is left without a dance partner, I would offer him 1 year and 3 million now and make him beg. I don’t even want him back, I would rather sign little Nate Robinson for 2 years.
I am more concerned with how the Sixers will fill out the rest of their roster. Andre Miller isn’t a concern for me anymore. There clearly is no market for him. He takes the 1-year MLE with us or some other team (if he can find one).
New York Daily News reporting that the Knicks may offer a contract to Andre Miller if they don’t get Grant Hill. Won’t leave the Sixers with many options at the point in Miller walks.
Chris - The Sixers have already expressed their direction. They are giving Lou a shot with Holiday as his back-up. They still would like to sign a veteran point guard for stability but not of Andre Miller’s caliber or salary demand.
Re Sixers, Miller & agent seem to have misread 5 big negotiating factors: (1) last couple of years of organization’s PR flattery gets them nowhere (2) it’s about winning playoff games in May & June (3) even Stefanski can eventually adjust to hard-learned contractual & product fidelity lessons (by way of Iguodala, Williams & Brand) (4) Miller’s blowing off team exit meeting publicly embarrassed the organization and drew steadfast relational “underappreciation” aka ‘Theo’s Woe’ (5) due to a bombing, toilet-economy, businesses are proceeding with bunker mentalities; hardly a time of corporate largesse (unless you’re a certified winner).
Dannie – I would love to see Lou get a shot and succeed. All I’m thinking is when we’ve got a kid like Holiday who, by all accounts, needs 2-3 years to master the NBA point, Miller would have been a great tutor. I just hope that there is someone out there (via FA or a trade) that can fill that role.
Chris – I’ve heard this a lot lately about Holiday needing/having a tutor. Is having a veteran point guard to learn from better then simple on the court training in real games paired with constant coaching and feedback?
I am a big believer that team practice, good coaching, focused individual skill work and plenty of real game application is the way to develop a player. Being an apprentice to a seasoned vet is nice but not necessary for successful development.
To the contrary I think a guy can work his ass off in practice put in all the gym time working on his game and soaking up all the coaching he can get. But if he doesn’t get to play in real games he is just “book smart” with no experience or reps on how to apply his training.
That’s why I think big men develop so slowly offensively. They don’t get enough live, real game action touches to develop the feel, read and reaction ability necessary to succeed on the low block.
How on earth would Miller have been a great tutor? He doesn’t talk to anybody. And his visual, on-the-job lessons on pro defense would be harmful to Holiday’s development. And supposing Miller could be prodded by per sentence contract incentives to verbalize: Jump shooting instruction? Forget that.
Chris: I think the tutor thing is overrated. By all accounts, Miller hardly talks off the court.
As for the Lou as starting PG experiment, I doubt it will work out, but what the hell. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle when you tell Lou he is not a “scorer,” or maybe the extra PT early in his career helps Holiday develop quickly, or maybe Lou helps the Sixers flame out into lottery gold.
Until you can shake up the roster, or have one of the youngsters (Lou, Thad, Smith Speights) become something better than they are right now, Brand return to being a beast, or have the “Princeton Offense” be the saviour, this team is going nowhere anyways. Waiting until 2011 for $20+ mil to come off the books isn’t exciting, but it is the Sixers current fate.
hahaha. great minds think alike re tutoring.
Dannie – I wasn’t suggesting that Holiday sit on the bench and watch Miller play all year. Just that I tend to think that having a veteran working with younger guys is a great opportunity. Speights has mentioned how much he learned from Elton Brand last year (in however a brief period).
Of course, this can also be achieved by a coach or another teammate (i.e. Rondo in BOS). But having a guy who has gone through all of the same experiences at the same position can be a huge advantage, especially with a guy like Miller who, over the last two years, has shown that he knows how to run this team and get the best out of their offensive weapons.
Now, obviously a guy won’t get anywhere without all the things you mentioned: playing time, coaching, work ethic in the gym, etc…
Either way, I’m excited to see Jrue develop and see what this team can do over the next couple years.
Chris – I know you didn’t suggest that Jrue sit on the bench but isn’t that the likely outcome if Miller is on the team as your starting point?
You figure Miller is going to get his 35 minutes per game at the point that leaves 13 minutes of point guard time available. And that would likely be split up between Jrue and Lou. Also my biggest concern is that he is stuck in another UCLA situation where because there is an establish point guard in place the coach decides to find minutes for Holiday off the ball. Playing off the ball (again) is exactly what we don’t want our point guard of the future doing and that is a concern for me.
Removing Miller or the absence of any heavy minute veteran point guard eliminates that problem. Let him and Lou split 48 minutes of time at the point. With them playing together sometimes having Jrue as the lead guard.
Look the excuses for why the best high school player in the country didn’t produce heavily or look all that great at UCLA was fact that he played out of position and therefore didn’t get an opportunity to prove he was a legit point guard and prove he can be very productive at the position. I don’t want that to continue at all here on the Sixers.
Misnomer. Brand was never a “beast”, just ACC/Vitale-ized and pro employed out of sight of Philly, as opposed to playing “outtasight”.
Good numbers on bad squads (Chi & LA2) and exaggerated evaluations were his magic carpet to riches-in-injured dormancy here. Good, impressively-built player, never great as the assumption goes though.
An ES boo-boo (among boo-boos).
“Waiting until 2011 for $20+ mil to come off the books isn’t exciting, but it is the Sixers current fate.”
Morty this is exactly the same conversaition that you, JJG, and myself had about 2-3 months ago. Like it or hate it, we have no choice but to wait for that time. What we do with that money that comes off the books will have the greatest importance of whether or not were a team that takes it to the next level and that level is competing for championships. We’ll also have 2 number one draft picks by that time.
Not as much cash free under the cap in 2011 as you might think. Iguodala and Brand’s growing cap numbers and Young’s cap hold eat away at that 20M.
Say they add no new players that are on the roster in 2 yrs aside from #1 picks:
For 2011/12:
EB/AI/LW= 36.5M
TY cap hold= 8M (+7M if you keep Jason Smith)
Speights + 2009/10/11 #1’s= 8M
That’s 52M+ if you renounce your rights to Jason Smith.
So, unless the cap suddenly balloons from the current 58M (and its as likely to go down as up in 2 years) the team will have a hair over MLE money unless they start selling away #1 picks or can unload Lou. And that is after giving up Smith. Keep/resign Smith and all you have is the MLE.
So 2011/12 is not a very realistic option. They have a better chance of trading Sam+young talent+picks at the 2011 deadline for a superstar- but they may have to pay the tax the following year. Trying to go the FA route only gets them MLE level talent.
realgm.com is reporting a sign and trade Miller for Chris Duhon, didn’t they just sign him last year to a big contract? Same old story. Has Von Waffer signed anywere yet, I’m still hoping we can get him. I really can’t do Willie at the 2 again. Either sign someone or commit to Iggy.
JJG & Morty: ”How on earth would Miller have been a great tutor? He doesn’t talk to anybody.” Great call haha.
Dannie: Nicely stated in post #82. The more I think about things, since drafting Jrue I believe you are correct, having a vet PG, while they can teach the youngsters tricks of the trade and (hopefully) maturity, would also serve to take away PT. And in this case, I’d say not only Jrue, but Lou, could use some extra PT to develop.
JJG: About Brand, I think you’re mostly right, except that he was most definitely a “beast” in college. That Duke team (I believe Wojo, T Langdon and Battier were his teammates) really dumped the ball to him in the post a lot and Brand was a freaking wrecking ball on the low block…much like Zach Randolph in the NBA. Also the ‘05-06 Clippers playoff year he really did have a great year…upping your scoring from 19-20 ppg to over 24 ppg is no small feat in an 82 game season, and defensively many players described him as a nightmare to play against. But I agree with your major point…most of us Sixer fans had not seen him enough on a regular basis to realize he was a 2nd banana type guy.
Tk: Great point about the escalating contracts. It is NOT going to be fun in 11-12 and 12-13 when Iguodala and Brand are making:
-$17 million, $13.5 million
-$18 million, $15 million (rounded up)
…combined. It’s very possible Thad could be making $10 million a year by then, and we’d be thinking about offering Speights his first real contract to be Brand’s replacement for the future at PF. I believe Lou is the key to all this. If we can raise his stock, he would be a very marketable asset that we could dangle in trades. Right now are biggest problem is lack of manueverability.
Good news!: http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20090711#STORY_20219
(scroll down to the middle)
…looks like Randy Ayers might be making a return to our bench. This would be a nice boost, I love him as an assistant.
Our friend Tom Moore has an interesting article regarding the Sixers and the Knicks!
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/126/2009/july/11/sixers-knicks-could-swap-point-guards.html
This is interesting and I am not quite ready for Lou to be a starting PG just yet!
This has nothing to do with summer league but if we cant get miller to come back why not bring back A.I . We have a better team now A.I has a better jump shot than miller and when everything breaks down you still can give him the ball and get the hell out of his way. I think he would do well with this team. A.I has always been willing to give the ball up despite what his critics say. I think bringing him back would benefit both sides it would make the sixers a better team and save the superstars career. The Watchovia wasn’t even sold out in the playoffs and that should tell you something about this team. During the A.I years even as an eighth seed the place would have been sold out. I think this would be a good move for the team the fans and A.I. A.I plays hard and with the Philly fans once again cheering for him the old logo back I think this could be a special season especially with a healthy Brand Thad getting better and if Iggy can get a consistant jump shot. I’m wondering if anyone else likes this idea.
I like Iverson and the problem is he always says the right things and I would want him but then 30-40 games into a season he starts his old ways, I really don’t think the franchise wants him back. Kinda a shame but Iverson really did this to himself by the way he acted at the end of the year in detroit.
No way. AI not coming this way anytime soon. Had enough of his selfish ways. Must take a healthy paycut and come off the bench for a playoff team. Don’t think his ego is willing to do that.
tk great job on that post, even though you were pissing on my hopes and dreams! lol
Morty I agree, Lou is the key. He needs to boost his value so that we could shed him.
I really think we should try to sign Von Wafer to be the starting 2 guard. Houston screwed him with Ariza signing and he has something to proof. I can not watch Willie Green at 2 another season, we must do something; get a starter or commit to Iggy.
The Knicks and Andre Miller are supposed to meet in Vegas!
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60526/20090712/knicks_meet_to_discuss_andre_miller/
Never mind
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20090713_Agents_rebuff_Miller-Duhon_deal_between_Sixers__Knicks.html