Comments on: Sixers Trade Talk: Anatomy of a Champion

By: Dannie

Dannie — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:58:21 +0000

Fred – I didn’t say it was easy did I? And I’ve said many times on this blog you have to be lucky as well as smart to win a championship. Not to mention often becoming really bad before getting really good.

You call it being impractically I call it being realistic. Fact or what I consider as proven history: You MUST have a unquestioned superstar to win a championship. Like I told Mike D. just look at the last 30 years. Impracticable as it sounds that is what history bares out. The two teams in my mind that accomplished it without a MJ, Magic, Bird type player are Detroit and the Supersonics back in 1979 with three really good players and a great coach in Lenny Wilkins.

I am personally not a believer in the Detroit model (3-4 strong players and good role guys) because I always think the US tips the scale almost every time the other way, but if the practical or realistic strategy as you say is for the Sixers to go that rout fine. But that means they have to upgrade their overall talent (not simply lateral moves, upgrade) and player mix before we can even considering being on the level of that Detroit team.

For one, Sheed although not an unquestioned star persay, has been well thought of as an elite level of talent. The Sixers don’t even have that caliber player on the squad. I agree, the rest is about strong scouting and evaluating of players that fit together like a glove. Then you need the right coach to make it all work and implement a winning style on both sides of the ball.

In the end for me there just isn’t enough talent on this team to compete with the best teams in the league and we were sold Elton Brand and Iguodala as the leaders of a contending level team.

By: deepsixersuede

deepsixersuede — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:39:09 +0000

For right now a move to add a player that helps our biggest asset [Elton] would be nice. If you look at Okafor!s numbers since Diaw was brought in there is a big difference [16 ppg.]. He seems to WORK next to Okafor ,like Zack!s trade example helped that Sixer team. I personally don!t expect a major move, in fact I think with pickings slim at the p.g., they may resign A.Miller, but adding one shooter that gets major minutes would be that “step in the right direction”.

By: Fred

Fred — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:55:23 +0000

I think the impracticality in the ground rules you laid out is that there are a very finite number of Unquestioned Superstars (US). Teams that have them are not going to be interested in letting them go until they realize (retrospectively in most cases) that the US is nearing the end of their prime (KG, AI, Barkley), or past it (too many to name – Billy King loved these deals though). If an in their prime US somehow does become available (i.e. upcoming Lebron sweepstakes) you will have to mortgage your future (and present) to be in the running for likely a small window… and it is still a huge gamble. That leaves you with the ground up way to build a team. It’s boring and doesn’t make for good blogging, but you have to focus on what is in your control – Scouting/drafting/lateral moves via trades and free agency (the Gasol trade was a joke and not something I would bank on replicating)/coaching (in-game and player development). When you don’t find that superstar you were trying to build around in the draft (i.e. Vast majority of US’s you mentioned stayed on the team that drafted them MJ, Bird, Magic, Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Chris Paul), you have to work with what you have (i.e. Detroit hoped Darko would be a superstar, but they managed to win without him and without a US). As painful as it is considering expectations for the Sixers at the beginning of this season, you do need to be more realistic about this. Calculated gambles on up an comers blossoming (Igoudala got Joe Johnson money but hasn’t delivered the game), free agents holding on to their prime (Brand) and sound drafting are our best bets at getting this team over the hump to contender status.

By: Zack

Zack — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:15:11 +0000

AaronMcKie4MVP – you ARE good at bashing Iguodala. Who do you like on this team?

Dannie – You’re right, the goal is to win a championship, but it’s also the goal of the other GMs in this league and except for Memphis they’re not just gonna hand over their really good players to other teams for less than equal value. So basically all you’ve got left are lateral trades talent-wise. And I say go ahead and do those trades if your team is not performing as well as you thought they would because you’re looking for better fits than you have now. In the opinion of several commentors, we have a lot of those bad fits right now.

What’s your retrospective on the McKie/Ratliff for Jerry Stackhouse trade? I’d say that was a lateral move talent-wise, and it broke that NBA rule of thumb where you always try to get the best player in a deal. But it really worked out for the Sixers because McKie and Ratliff were just better fits around Allen Iverson. I think some of the lateral trades that have been mentioned have that potential. Another example is what they’ve done in Cleveland – look at what the singular addition of Mo Williams has done for that club. Sure, Mo Williams looks good now on Cleveland, but when he was in Milwaukee he as impressive. You just never know what kind of situation will bring out the best in a player, so Stefanski should make an educated guesses about which underperforming players on other teams would do well here in Philadelphia and try to get them for the underperforming players we have now.

If Stefanski can make a trade that makes this team just a little bit better, not championship-level better, but gets them more wins, you do it. Why? Because I’m a big believer in just simply going in the right direction, which the Sixers are not. I’d be happy with a trade that would improve their record just a little, wouldn’t you? And then after that, you make another small trade that would improve your record just a little, and then another after that, and in time you’re one of the NBA’s powerhouse teams.

BTW, the Sixers reward their fans with a win tonight (gotta show Depressed Fan and Kate Fagan how it’s really done). I’d love to get into details, but I gotta run.

HAPPY NEW YEAR’S EVERYONE!!!

By: Kevin

Kevin — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:56:46 +0000

My problem is the people that want to preach patience in regards to Igoudala. Quick turnarounds dont happen often in the NBA, there is a slow process to getting better each year, so time is very valuable. So how long do you wait to decide that resigning Igoudala was a mistake. You wait the rest of the season, two seasons, three. Either way you are going to come to the same conclusion, Igoudala dont fit with Brand, and it was a mistake to resign him.
ES blew it this offseason. Either you resign Igoudala and go with Josh Smith, and go all out on this pressure defense/high octane offense idea. Or you sign Brand and put shooters around him. Signing both just doesnt make sense. It’s kinda like AR wanting to throw the football all the time, but not bring in a #1 receiver. Either you go all out on your system or you go with another, but you dont half build a team with different systems.

By: AaronMcKie4MVP

AaronMcKie4MVP — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:23:58 +0000

im not writing off the Brand signing just yet. i knew the risks when we signed him and was all for it. Brand was doing some good things for us and just starting to get back to 100% when he went down. sure, i would like more scoring but at least he wasnt totally letting me down. thats the difference between his signing and Iggy. Iggy is just a total bust. the guy kills us with TOs and horrendous shot selection, and hurts us in crunch time – not attributes that you want to throw $14mm at. We are stuck with his stinky contract and we will never build a winner with him as a main piece. unless we draft superstars that can make an immediate impact while under their 3 yr bargain contracts, this team is going nowhere. at the end of the day we only have ~$70mm in payroll to divide among our roster. $14mm is too big a proportion for mediocrity

By: deepsixersuede

deepsixersuede — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:29:23 +0000

1] K.Bryant,P.Gasol, A.Bynum 2] K.Garnett,P.Pierce,R.Allen 3]T.Duncan, M.Ginobli,T.Parker 4]Y.Ming, R.Artest,T.McGrady 5]D.Howard,R.Lewis, H.Turkoglu 6] L.James,Z.Ilgauskas, M.Williams 7] C.Paul,D.West, T.Chandler 8] D.Williams,C.Boozer,M.Okur 9] J.Johnson, A.Horford,M.Bibby 10] B.Roy,L.Aldridge, G.Oden 11] A.Stoudemire, Shaq,S.Nash 12] R.Wallace,T.Prince, R.Hamilton 13]C.Anthony,C.Billups, Nene 14] C.Bosh, J.Oniell,J.Calderon 15]A.Bogut,M.Redd, R.Jefferson 16] D.Wade,S.Marion,M.Beasley 17]C.Butler,A.Jamison,G.Arenas 18] D.Nowitzki,J.Howard, J.Kidd 19] E.Brand,A.Miller, Iggy ? You may disagree with the order, you may disagree with the players selected for each team, but you can!t disagree we are far away.

By: Dannie

Dannie — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:53:55 +0000

Mike – No, Elton Brand is not an elite superstar. Elton Brand is a solid player that has never really been dominant – consistently good, but not dominant. Superstar players are dominant. They are great or at the very least on the verge of greatness. And greatness wins championships, just go through recent history of the last 30 years and see how many teams won a chip without a unquestioned hall-of-fame player. I have two teams in mind.

Where do you see that in Brand? He’s only been to two all-star games in his career which means to the coaches he hasn’t been one of the three best power forwards in his conference for most of his career. I like Brand he is a worker with talent that made the most of his slightly shorter stature at the position but he isn’t a number one guy on a championship team at all.

About Iguodala, give me a break. Let me put it to you like this go through the top say 16 NBA teams and compare Iguodala to who you think is the #2 on those rosters. Then come back and talk to me.

By: deepsixersuede

deepsixersuede — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:59:03 +0000

Mike, I don!t see this team in the next 2 years competing with Boston or the Lakers. If A.Miller isn!t resigned that is a major step back. A senoir p.g. in college [Collison?] would have less difficulty adjusting to the N.B.A. than a younger p.g. but still a big adjustment. I still want a L.Will. and A.Miller starting backcourt NOW to see if they click because I think L.Will. could become a J.Terry type score with 30 minutes a night. A A.Miller/L.Will./Iggy/Elton/Sam lineup could win a round and possible 2 but that is if they click which is a lot to ask. The above was using Dannie!s theory and running with it.

By: Mike Donnelly

Mike Donnelly — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:44:08 +0000

deepsixersuede,

as I understand it 2 third bananas do not = one super sidekick and 3 third bananas do not = one superstar

However I think (again) folks on this board are too down on our own talent. AI2 is clearly IMHO a super sidekick a perfect #2 guy. He is not a leader, but has the skill and temperment to be a #2 guy.

Personally I thought Elton Brand was a superstar and our #1 guy, with luck once his nagging injuries go away, he is exactly that. Of course that means the coach will have to structure a game and team around Brand.

That leaves the “clutch sharpshooter” as the only role we need to fill, and I think ES can find that person

This team is actually pretty close to a title