February 26, 2015

Sixers Trade Talk: Working With the Chicago Bulls

Elton Brand Chicago BullsI will just get right to it…

Elton Brand to Chicago for Tyrus Thomas and Kirk Hinrich

Financially it works as evidenced by the trade machine’s approval.  So the next questions are:

  1. Would Chicago do it?
  2. Does this help the Sixers and in what ways?

The Particulars

Let me just get the particulars out of the way.

Elton Brand – 4-years at ~$66, 037,650 left on his contract

Tyrus Thomas – 1-year ~$4,743,598 left on his contract and then becomes a restricted free agent with a ~$6,256,806 qualifying offer

Kirk Hinrich – 3-years at ~$26,500,000

Would Chicago Do It?

Well we all know about the Kirk Hinrich situation.  Do they keep him, can they afford to keep him and Gordon, log jam etc etc.  But the word on the street now is the Bulls are actively shopping Tyrus Thomas.

The Chicago Bulls are reportedly heavily shopping Tyrus Thomas around the league, trying to see what kind of value they can get for him after the solid season he’s coming off of. It appears that they don’t see him fitting into their long-term plans as he’s too similar to Joakim Noah, and they aren’t interested in giving him a long-term deal that would put them over the luxury tax. It’s possible the Bulls look to package Thomas and Hinrich together and land a big time power forward.Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress

If that rumor is accurate doesn’t this trade make some good sense for Chicago?  Sure they lose a good player in Hinrich who can play both guard positions, shoot the three and is a very good defender.  But they also have the 16th and 26th pick with which to try and replace him.  Brand is nothing like Noah and is a nice pick and roll partner for Derrick Rose who can also play with his back to the basket a bit.  Brand would also add some leadership and class to a team with a few misfits looking to win right now.

The way the Bulls played in the playoffs I don’t know if I would start shaking things up but I can see why they may want a more traditional power forward along side Noah to add some stability on offense inside.  The Bulls live and die with perimeter shots, love to penetrate but lack a go-to inside presence that would make them a well-balance and more complete offense.  Not to mention help their 28th ranked defensive rebound rate.

Would they be open to a return of Brand?

Does This Help the Sixers and in What Ways?

If you are one of the fans who has already given up on Elton Brand you probably love this trade.  If you are still a Brand supporter you either hate it or it may have peeked your interest a bit.

Hinrich proves a 28-year-old point guard who shoots 38% from three for his career and is coming off a 40.8% seasons shooting the three.  He has nice size and is an extremely strong defender who can play both guard spots.  He clearly fits a need for the Sixers in a big way.

By adding the shooter at the point guard spot it leaves room for Iguodala and Thad to remain in the starting line up together.  It also opens up more flexibility in the draft.

I think most of you know this by now but I am not a Tyrus Thomas fan at all.  With that said if you want the Sixers back to their running ways in full force he is a good fit at power forward with Speights (who I think will be better if he isn’t already).  He is a good help defender, but a weak rebounder at the PF spot.

Maybe the most positive thing is it helps regain some financial flexibility while not hurting the team all that much if at all.  Hell might even help it.  Hinrich’s contract is very good in my opinion because it depreciates each year rather than going up when the player’s production tends to slide.  And the Sixers could very well just let Thomas walk after next season if they don’t like him and take the cap space knowing we have Speights, Jason Smith and the draft.

What’s your take?

Tyrus Thomas dunking on Elton Brand

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  1. The Greek says:

    No, unlike the many Sixers fans who like to jump off a roof at the first sign of trouble I would like to preach patience on Brand.  He will be our leader,  give the dude a chance.     We can’t let Iggy be our leader with his “Who farted in my face from 2 inches away” face’s that he makes.  This year proved that no one listens to him.

  2. The Real Rob says:

    The Greek:  I’m with you there.  First, let’s see who our coach is.  Second, who are we going to draft?  Third, will Andre Miller want to re-sign with the team?  It all points to those three questions. 

    Plus, had Brand and Smith played against the Magic in the playoffs, who knows what might have happened in that series.  (same goes for the Celtics with Garnett and Powe).  Cleveland’s big men are atrocious against Dwight  Howard. 

    Tyrus Thomas still has a lot to learn composure wise.  Bulls fans are just as frustrated with Hinrich getting into foul trouble (as as  starter) as we are with Dalembert getting into foul trouble.  I am not entirely sold on that deal, given the uncertainty in those players.   

    Coaches would want to coach this team with a guy like Brand on the roster because he is coachable.  First things first, those three questions must be answered. 

  3. Dannie says:

    Rob – You sound too much like Ed Stefanski man.  There just as much if not more uncertainty with Jason Smith and Elton Brand as there is with Thomas and Hinrich.  Jason Smith needs to prove he can play right away after his knee injury then he needs prove he is a real player.  Brand needs to prove he can stay on the floor and prove he can fit and thrive on this roster.

    I am not saying I would jump all over this deal but I certainly would consider it.

  4. rocky says:

    hell no I don’t want elton brand. He’s way too slow for the system we will be running. The bulls are after Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire, not elton brand.

  5. The Real Rob says:

    Dannie– Was that a compliment?  I have always thought about doing something in the NBA world, but I don’t know what.

    However, your trade rumor is half true.  

  6. brian says:

    It’s definitely worth some thought. I seriously doubt ES would pull the trigger, though. Brand was his genius move, he isn’t going to abandon it w/out really seeing if it works unless there’s an even bigger move to be made, like Amare.

  7. Dannie says:

    Rob – What was the point of the link you posted?

    And saying you sound like Ed Stefanski was actually me trying to say you sound more like a company man than a fan with a critical eye on the team he cares about.  Think Howard Eskin.

  8. Dannie says:

    Brian - I am 99.5% positive Stefanski wouldn’t do this deal and equally as sure he wouldn’t move Brand until he has 1 full season and playoffs on the court in a Sixers uniform OR he gets hurt again OR the Sixers are absolutely horrible leading into the trade deadline next season.

    Basically he won’t jump the gun even if a deal like this or similar was presented.

    All what you believe in though.  If you believe in Brand which I think Stefanski really does there is no reason to make a move like this. 

    But I don’t like the Sixers situation right now.  That could change come 2010 playoffs.  Right now though they are a lower end playoff team with little to no realistic roster flexibility and potentially on the verge of losing their starting point guard and I don’t like that position. 

    Just a tight feeling like if this roster doesn’t work you are a 1st round playoff team for at least 2 more years before you can make a major, impact move.

  9. tk76 says:

    I would do that trade.  I want to get back to where the Sixers have a bunch of young, promising talent and no urgency to win now or else.  If you build up enough good players then in a year or two when they hit their prime you can always package some of your young talent for an older superstar (say aomeone like Kobe at 33.) 

    Right now guys like Young, Speights and Lou are not ready to play on a contender- but in 2-3 years who knows.  Basically my main problem about sticking with Brand and Miller has been they will be best for 1-2 years and the rest of the roster needs more time than that to mature.

    On the flip side, Brand has all time low value right now, so I doubt anyone would give you equal value.  He is 30, but ideally should still be a good player through the remainder of his contract, so it seems risky to trade him now.

  10. Sean says:

    Sorry, not quite ready to give up on the Brand experiment just yet.  Given that his two injuries have nothing to do with one another, I see no reason why he will not come back as a quality player.  Not a fan of Tyrus Thomas, personally.  I like Hinrich, though I’d prefer to get him with Brand still here.  Brand can fit fine here; Mo made the mistake of thinking you could run a 1-4 set with our current personnel and pound the ball into him.  Instead, he should’ve used more motion.  Still, if we can exchange Miller for a shooter(like Hinrich or Jack or even CJ Watson), they should be fine.  That is especially true if Thad can shoot the same percentage from 3 on the road that he shot at home(40%).

  11. Dannie says:

    Sean – No need to say sorry.  There are definitely two distinctly different camps among Sixers fans right now.

    I am actually torn on this deal in particular.  But I think of all the trades proposals we’ve done here and have read on other sites this one made some sense for the Sixers because if you really like Thad at the 4 you should like having Thomas at the 4 with the ability to keep Thad on the court at the same time as well.  If you like having Thad and Iggy in the starting line up, you should like this deal because it gets that defender/shooter at the point.  If you want the Sixers to run like horses you would like this deal.  And if the rumor above is accurate AND GMs tend to think like Stefanski in that coaches would like to coach an Elton Brand it might make some sense for the Bulls.

  12. Tom Moore says:

    Why would the Bulls want Brand?

    Also, Sixers just confirmed Thibodeau interviewed today.

  13. deepsixersued says:

    Dannie, I want to give Brand a chance BUT if they did this before the draft and drafted a low post player [Mullins or Blair] I would like it a lot. Than ,as tk76 said, we are young and a plan is in place.

  14. Dannie says:

    Because if the rumor is accurate they don’t want Tyrus Thomas long-term or the style he plays.  From the sound of that report Brand is more the style player they want at the position.  He probably isn’t their first choice I am sure they rather have Amare, Bosh and maybe even Boozer but I really don’t think they have a legit shot at getting those guys.  This seems more realistic for them.

    And I am pretty sure they are still looking for the right deal to move Hinrich since they drafted Rose and probably don’t like the idea of having a back up point playing 26 minutes per game making $9M.  I don’t think they just want to dump his salary because he is a quality player.  Brand if he can still play strong for 3-4 season makes Chicago better immediately.

    With that said if Brand really can play strong for 3-4 seasons he also will make us better.  I just believe Speight will eventually be able to give us what we hope Brand will and we need a defensive point who can shoot in a bad way.

  15. Dannie says:

    Suede - Is there really a low post player in the draft at 17 project to be better than Speights?  I don’t think so.  You could draft Mullens to replace Sam in two years if you want to go that route since he should be there and there aren’t any other centers in this draft.  I think if we get Hinrich you draft a shooting guard so Willie and Lou don’t have to play as much.

  16. deepsixersued says:

    Dannie, getting a low post 5 was my thought ,if it isn!t a reach. But if you do this the best player available probably works.

  17. Tom Moore says:

    Just think with Brand missing 74 games and then 53 over the last two seasons, that’s a gigantic gamble on the Bulls’ part. Gotta believe they could get more from Thomas and Hinrich.

  18. The Real Rob says:

    Tom Moore– How did the interview with Tom Thibodeau go?  He is by far the best assistant coach qualified to be a great up and coming head coach.    Also, are there any more coaches that Ed Stefanki is considering?  (Avery, Collins, Van Gundy, and even Jay Wright for some reason?) 

    Again, the Sixers must get a coach and must make their selection in the draft in order to determine what additional moves have to be made.  One thing for sure is that we need a backup center now that Ratliff has been shown the door (unfortunately).  



  19. Tom Moore says:

    Nobody is talking about the interview, which was in Philly. Will be interesting to see where Stefanski goes next.

  20. jjg says:

    Dannie,  Chicago takin’ Brand back would be similar to Sixers takin’ Iverson back.  Diminished returns.  Salad days for both a decade ago.
    ["what thou the radiance which once so bright be now forever from my sight"]  But your proposal is a plus deal for Sixers if they could ever pull it off.   Hinrich would bolster guard corps – serious need addressed to a degree by his addition. 

  21. Dannie says:

    plus deal for the Sixers.

    JJG – Always my first priority.  Very rarely are deals truly or equally win-win.  Just try to make the best case why the other team would consider the deal and make sure it works for the Sixers.

  22. sfw says:

    We might have to throw in pick #17 but I would do it. Provides balance. We get a tall shooting point and a 4 to fight it out with speights for time. I love it. Plus, age wise we would have a good balance of players under 30 years old.

  23. jjg says:

    Dannie,  Glad you raised the idea of moving Brand.  Maybe it’ll gain some traction.  Stefanski seems dug-in though with him.  ["What a fine mess, Stanley."]  

  24. The Greek says:

    If we turn around and just trade Brand why the hell would any other big name free agent want to sign with us? 

    Just trade Iggy for Joe Johnson somehow and then lets roll!

    JJG, give the guy a chance.  He was surrounded by a bunch of selfish losers last year who only cared about “getting theirs” .  This guy is smart, he is tough,  and he has what it takes to be a leader.

  25. jjg says:

    Response  to question:  Money, lots of money; Comcast’s money, our former money.

    Response to proposal:  Good idea!  But Stefanski’s's the hard sell on that. 
    The Greek,  If Brand’s back, I got his back – but not for long.  Has pedigree, physique, skills and stats but I’ve never been overly impressed with his overall effect.  Sum less than his parts in my opinion.  Just a feel, my read.  An above average player on the downside of career.  I’ve been wrong before though … think it was in ’87.


  26. 2one5 says:

    I like the trade for us in terms of players ages and what hinrich can do on the court don’t really like thomas but if he doesnt expand his game than we can let him walk.  Hinrich, Iggy and Thad, with Thib as the coasch would be scary on defense.  

    I do see the downside with letting brand walk though in terms of free agent signings but that mostly breaks down to chance of winning and money. Brand would still end up in a better situation than if he took the most money and went to golden state last off season, and he just came from a franchise that is the biggest laughing stock of  all. 

    I dont want to give up on brand and think we could be mildly successful with him here but think that this trade makes sense for the collective group of players we have right now. I dont think hes done and do not support the trade because I think elton brand sux, I think he will come back strong next year and give a team 18 and 10. I just think that this trade makes sense for us financially and one the court and could be a win win for both teams.

  27. bball says:

    I’m in the camp that wants to give Brand another year but I wouldn’t be totally opposed to the idea.  We need a shakeup and need to get some 3pt shooting in the starting 5.  PG seems like the only spot to add it unless either Thad or Iggy are moved.  The trade would seem a lot better if they were able to get another PF with their midlevel.  Sheed?  He would certainly bring some post up and some 3pt game but would he come here for the midlevel?

  28. tim says:

    I can’t believe you guys are giving up on elton brand already. And for a 28 year old point gaurd who isn’t getting any better then what he’s giving you know, and an unskilled freak athlete who has no heart or desire….
    Give brand a chance for this to work. The team will have a new identity with a new coach and i think they will look to reshape the team a little in hope of making them into a more balanced all round team who can be effective in half court sets and spot up for shots.
    I think perhaps you should have some more patience dannie and maybe explore some deals involving dalembert or a sign and trade with miller. Some deals that may work might be one involving one of the clippers many big men, I know that the sixers were chasing chris kaman for a while last season.

  29. The Greek says:

    Wanna a shakeup then deal Iguodala, a front court of Brand and Thad is a great starting point.  Now go get them some shooters to pass it too when their doubled.

  30. tk76 says:

    What would give up to move up to #2 (and presumably take Rubio?)

    Foshan at RealGM caught this: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=12721

    “a rumor quickly followed behind that the Memphis Grizzlies would look to trade the pick rather than use it themselves. While Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace has been openly interested in Rubio, we’re being told that the Grizzlies would rather have the $3 million they’d likely get from a team looking to move up, as well as a slightly lower pick.”

    and later…

    “More likely might be the Philadelphia 76ers, who will likely lose Miller, or the Washington Wizards, who thought they were going to get the #2 pick and have already given Rubio a lot of thought. “

  31. Dannie says:

    Tim – I don’t know how much you’ve read this blog or even all the comments in this post.  I’ve been a Brand supporter since we signed him.  All the people that wanted him gone in the beginning of the season, at the trade deadline and as soon as the off-season started I said I prefer to see him play at least one full season and a playoffs before passing judgment on him as a player on our team.  He gets an incomplete. 

    With that said NO ONE on this team is untouchable.  I believe that and Stefanski has openly said that as well.  At the end of the day all I care about is the logo.  I don’t have a personal affection for the individual players on this roster.  I just want to see them win a lot more than they are – and be in better position to improve the roster because even with Brand playing well I don’t think it’s good enough to be a contender.

    I don’t like this teams position.  They are stuck with some heavy, tough to move contracts for at least 2 more seasons. 

    We have been talking about Samuel Dalembert trades ad nausem and it was the first one I did this off-season.  Trading Sam is probably not happening until he only has one year left and his trade kicker amount is at it’s lowest.  Furthermore we aren’t getting any sort of value for, likely just another bad contract.  I’d rather just ride him out and let him walk after two seasons than take on a worst contract for a marginally better player at best.

    This deal nets you the right type of player at the point (one who you are vastly underrating) the style PF (along with two young back-ups don’t forget) that support Stefanski’s vision and style he thinks this team should play.  AND it regains some cap and roster flexibility. 

    Read this page again. I haven’t committed to this deal at all.  It was a proposal that makes some sense in a lot of ways.  What I said specifically:

    I am not saying I would jump all over this deal but I certainly would consider it.

    I am actually torn on this deal in particular.

    A deal for one of the Clippers big men?  Really?  Do you trade Camby or Kaman for Sam if you are the Clippers? I’d take either but I see absolutely no reason why the Clippers would.  Randolph and Jordon are out of the question in my opinion.

    I might explore sign and trades with Miller at some point but I still don’t think that would net you as much value as this deal does.

  32. Dannie says:

    TK76 – Not sold on Rubio and he can’t shoot so I don’t like the fit all that much.  Probably rather have Curry instead and at #2 that looks like a reach.

    • Our 17th pick is much more than “slightly lower.”
    • They don’t have room for Thad and I wouldn’t do that anyway.
    • Speights?  Not sure I like moving him in this draft for that pick either.
    • I’d give up Jason Smith in a heart beat though.

    Pete might have more productive thoughts since he seems to like Rubio more.

  33. Dannie says:

    TK76 - Another alternative might be what could we package and give Washington to move up to the 5th spot and have our choice of point guard/player after Rubio that fits what we need and makes us better right now.

    Chad Ford is reporting similar things that if the Wiz can’t make a move up to get Rubio they would like to move down and get a veteran player who can help that team win now.

  34. jjg says:

    As Tom pointed out, Brand’s missing 127 games over last 2 seasons would tend to make any interested party gun-shy in acquiring him.
    He’s the equivalent of a fixer-upper in a nice neighborhood in today’s real estate market.  No thanks. 

    The Brand dreaming – - didn’t anybody watch his panicked post play last year?  He was lackluster, at times horrible, passing out of double-teaming; indecisive and fumbling overall; so-so goin’ to hoop; didn’t do much with ball other than drill some pet elbow jumpers.  The optimists will point finger at a diffuse Cheeks and some low-IQ teammates.  The realist holds Brand accountable for his part in the shambles of a halfcourt offense.  Do you think inserting KG wouldn’t solidify the Sixers halfcourt cause, bring some stability, create space, raise confidence level and attack-poise?  Difference is the present level of their respective games.         

  35. Tom Moore says:

    A source close to the situation confirmed the Sixers have interviewed Chris Ford and Jay Wright, with additional candidates to come.

  36. jjg says:

    Chris Ford?  What’s next?  Wide-striped bell-bottomed warmup pants?
    Why not Daddy Mass?  Pasta night tables create harmony … and Sam, Lou and Thad could use some more meat on their bones.  

  37. Tom Moore says:

    Was probably a courtesy interview, since Ford works in the Sixers’ pro personnel department.

    Stefanski statement (in part):  “Along with my staff, we will continue our due diligence – including further interviews, extensive research and in-depth background checks – before a final selection is made.”

  38. Tom Moore says:

    He said there’s no timetable for hiring a new coach

  39. tk76 says:

    Jay Wright?!?

    I assume him interviewing means he is interested.  Certainly would make a splash, although at this point I’m still pulling for TT

    - but on a lighter not, maybe that’s because Wright was tough on me when I went to the Nova basketball camp at age 16?  But he did get me to play some shut down defense- I just remember him putting me down for my total lack of offensive game (which was accurate.)

    Then again brutal honesty and demanding defense might be exactly what this team needs?

  40. Tom Moore says:

    Villanova is apparently issuing a statement in the next two hours. Don’t know why Wright would leave there for the grind — and lack of job security — in the NBA.

  41. tk76 says:

    Then again, at 16 I was 6’4, 140 and my game resemble AK47 without a handle.  Not a pretty thing to watch, glad there was no video of my HS games.

  42. Dannie says:

    Tom – Where are you hearing this from?

    This article on Philly.com actually says Wright turned down consideration for the Sixers job. 

    Was he formally interviewed or just contacted?

  43. T.O. says:

    IMO the biggest gain is the financial flexibility. If Tyrus Thomas isn’t a good fit for us than we can let him walk next season. Let A. Miller walk and Hinirch steps in. I honestly don’t think the Bulls will do this deal with Brands recent penchant for injured reserve list.

  44. Tom Moore says:

    Was told he formally interviewed this week and that Villanova was going to issue a statement around noon.

  45. jjg says:

    Maybe he knows he can’t get to the Div I mountaintop with small-scaled Villanova and last year was a fortunate max; wants to cash out while stock is at a high and hometown opportunity exists (with a buddy as boss). 

  46. Tom Moore says:

    Would be shocked if Wright left. Statement could be that he’s saying ‘no thanks.’

  47. jjg says:

    Tom, Was that quote from the Pentagon Papers or Ed Stefanski?  Very formal for a local b-ball schlubber.  At least he’s taking the head coaching selection seriously, is giving due weight to his next ( last?) big decision.

  48. Tom Moore says:

    ‘Nova just released a statement confirming Wright has withdrawn from consideration.

  49. Dannie says:

    Here is the link to the Nova release about Jay.

    Good!  Stay at Nova they are in a good position to do some big things with him at the helm.

  50. Tom Moore says:

    Given the track record of college coaches in the NBA (Pitino, Calipari, Kruger, Montgomery, et al), how good Wright has it at Villanova and that he’s only 47, leaving would’ve been a bad decision.

  51. tk76 says:

    Some of those other college coaches were successful with more gimicky offensive schemes that are better suited for college (zone defense and shoot a ton of 3′s.)  Other high profile college coaches struggling hints that m,aybe they would do better if they were assistants in the NBA 1st, but does not mean they can’t succeed.  I think Larry Brown made the transition well (did he coach in college or the NBA 1st?)

  52. jjg says:

    Press release, “sweet.”  And I don’t blame him.  Insular green of Main Line campus, deep pockets of fervent alumni, open talent pipelines from cities and present earned coaching regard make 19085 the perfect zip code for his smiley face.  Smart choice.   

  53. bski says:

    TK76…….Larry Brown first coached in the ABA (with Doug Moe as his top assistant).

  54. bski says:

    I know I’m way late to this discussion, but I’ll throw out my opinion.  I’d make this deal.

    I’m not a Brand hater but, when you take all the variables into account (nice job laying them all out, Dannie), I feel this move has more upside.  I think that making this deal gives us a better shot at turning this team into a contender than keeping Brand does, if for no other reason than we will have more room to maneuver financially thereby allowing us to more easily reshape the roster.

  55. bski says:

    Just got to the end of the current issue of Sports Illustrated and found this article:  “What’s the Answer Now?” by Chris Ballard.  Gotta wonder what Iverson’s future holds.

  56. jjg says:

    Thin, easy article by Ballard of the peanut gallery from the What Have You Done Lately school of thought.  Iverson was a tremendous and shaping, original force that brought Sixers only real success since solid ’89-’90 team.  Go on and give the credit to LB … take AI away and it’s PU.  And what about Billups vagabond 1st half of career?
    Specious piece in its selective memory.    

  57. Morty says:

    It would be hard to sell lower on Brand than right now. You give him the coming year to show that he is healthy and effective and then move him if need be.  The Sixers are in cap trouble for at least 2 more years anyways, unless they can do something with the 20 mil of annual salary owed to the trinity of Dalembert, Evans and Green.

  58. The Real Rob says:

    Let me get this straight.  According to Phil Jasner and his people, the Sixers plan or will interview the following:
    -Avery Johnson
    -Doug Collins
    -Mike Budenholzer

    Well, it’s about time, the Sixers interviewed some former head coaches.  But you do have to hand it to Ed Stefanski for actually being assertive and aggressive in making the best decisions possible as opposed to being passive constantly.  Kudos to Sixers management there, but this is definitely Stefanski’s biggest decision as the Sixers GM.  
    Also, check this out.  The Atlanta Hawks have yet to extend Mike Woodson’s coaching contract.

    What’s everyone’s take on Woody (a former Sixers assistant coach)?

  59. Morty says:

    And if Brand isn’t healthy and effective, well, same place they are right now…

  60. Tom Moore says:

    Avery Johnson’s agent said he has yet to hear from Stefanski.

    Chris Ford this afternoon on his interest in the job: “Once a coach, always a coach.”

  61. jjg says:

    With all due respect, I don’t consider Ford to be a coach.  When did he pay his dues at lower levels?  He’s in ‘the club’ & a lifer, but coach? – that’s a stretch.  Bird “coached” his best teams.  (Was a nice component player though.)

    Good feeds today, Tom. 

  62. Dannie says:

    I have to disagree with this idea that Brand can’t get any lower.  He can get a hell of a lot lower. 

    Right now I think there is belief he actually can still play the game at a high level.  Forget the injuries I am talking ability to play the game and produce.  That is still an unknown in my opinion.  If we keep him and he comes out next season and doesn’t/can’t produce consistently that is when he will be at his lowest and 100% untradable.  Conversely if he comes out and can play, stay healthy and produce why then would you move him?  I don’t think Stefanski would move him if that turns out to be the case so the idea that you wait until he proves he can play before you move him just doesn’t hold with me much.

    You could make the argument to sell him now to a team that thinks like many fans and the Sixers do that his injuries were unrelated fluke type injuries that doesn’t suggest physically he is incapable of playing before the worst case scenario happens when he shows he can’t even get it done on the court when he is healthy.

  63. Tom Moore says:

    Ford coached at the Division III level  (Brandeis) from 2001-03 before coming to the Sixers.

  64. Tom Moore says:

    If the Sixers could get Thomas and Hinrich for Brand, Stefanski should do it immediately. Dannie’s right that some people might think Brand can still play. Another subpar or injury-filled season and that idea could be out the window.

  65. Lonnie Fuller says:

    That trade won’t help the sixers get to the finals.  Getting to the finals requires top level studs surrounded by good role players.  The studs have to be guys who can occasionally get you freak numbers, especially when it counts.  AI the first, went nuts in the 2001 playoffs with several games over 40.  Moses could get you 25 rebounds.  LeBron had 40 last night and only made 2 jumpers all night.  Kobe dropped the silent 41 on Denver.  Melo dropped 30+ for 5 straight playoff games.  You need at least one guy, who can dominate what he does and carry your team.  Neither Brand, Hinrich or Tyrus can do that.  Therefore it doesn’t matter. 

    BTW, came to your site from the basketball reference Brand page sponsorship .  I’ll follow along to see how much reality is here.

    Long-time Philly guy stuck in HBG for a while.

  66. Dannie says:

    Lonnie – Welcome.  But I gotta say I think your comment is shortsighted. 

    First let me say if you’ve followed this blog at all I’ve said for a very long time that it takes an elite player (HOF pretty much) to win a championship.  Everyone around here already knows my opinion on that.

    Second I have to ask, is it realistic to think a single trade would get the Sixers to the finals?  If someone knows of it please let me and more importantly Ed Stefanski know.  Most of the championships that are won the elite level player was with the team since they were drafted.  What Boston did took more than a single move.  So to dismiss a deal because it doesn’t get them to a finals again is shortsighted.

    What this deal does is get the Sixers from underneath Brand’s contract (he isn’t the elite guy so the money probably could be better spent elsewhere) but it also nets you the type of point guard this team needs (younger, defensive shooter) considering our wing players AND most importantly (the last paragraph in the post) it regains cap flexibility to try and acquire that elite level player necessary to win a championship while maintaining the young core.

  67. Dave T says:

    Morty:  I agree with you about how we’d be trading Brand at his lowest value.  In fact, I think one of the biggest reasons we have damn near zilch manueverability right now as far as trades…big OR small…is that almost all of our pieces we would realistically look to move we’d be trading with their stocks incredibly low:

    -Brand…coming off major knee and shoulder injuries
    -Lou…coming off an atrociously terrible season (although, mysteriously as others have mentioned it seems many columnists around the league are not privy to this)
    -W Green…pretty clear by now he’s considered, rightly so, just an energy guy that can play D and slash a bit.
    -J Smith…coming off a major injury.
    -D-Bere…after a year under Mo where he averaged a double double, resorted back to inconsistent form, putting up an 6.5-8.5-1.8.  

    Ratliff and Rush are going to be let go.  We’ll probably keep Marshall and Ivey.  Lord only knows what the A-Miller situation is.   Many teams I’m sure like Reggie Evans’ game, but not at the $4-5 million price tag.  ”Trading Iguodala” was the item of last summer…it is clear we are, and should be, keeping him now.  

    Given all that, if you were another team, would YOU want to take a flier on any of the above five players?  Unless you are the Timberwolves or Memphis and in desperate need of a Center that can rebound/block…or a Golden State, N Orleans or the Clippers that could use some backcourt punch off the bench…our pieces kinda suck to move around in packages that could net us something in return.

    That said, I DO think it’s very possible to improve our bench through the draft.  I think we should look to make some tweak trades involving Lou Williams and Willie Greene to teams that are backcourt starved, and have lower 1st round picks that won’t be very useful to them.  I’d very happily love to use our 17th pick and maybe a second 1st round pick in the 18-23 range to nab us a backup SG/SF that can shoot 3′s, and a legitimate backup PG.

    The biggest loss in losing Brand last year was the fact that we never got to see what we got.  The decision would be easy to make if we knew Brand had game left, but he couldn’t fit right with our pieces.  That means this year needs to be our “last year”…we need a year to see how things gel before making a sideways lateral move like Hinrich/Thomas.  

    Mentioned this in another thread, curious to see what others thing (ignoring logistics)…if Memphis takes Rubio, what would people think about pursuing Mike Conley Jr?  He improved his shooting immensely, hitting 90 threes at a 40% clip last year.  Throwback guy that gets others involved first, and is young, extremely athletic, and a little dart of energy to team with Iggy and Thad.  

  68. RRose says:

    I really want to see what a healthy Brand can do with a quicker, better defending, better shooting PG and SG along side of him.  After watching just about every game this past season, after watching every buzzer beater loss, after watching that 7 game skid with that deer in the headlights coaching style of Dileo, I think its quite possible this team can win 5-9 more games in the 2009-2010 season with a better supporting cast and coach. 

    So many people say picking at #17 won’t provide the type of impact player this team needs to turn the corner.  Why not?  Anybody see what Rondo has done for the Celtics without a healthy KG?  Now he’s not the shooter we’d like but nobody can’t tell me if that same person was in the draft this year he wouldn’t be a top 5 pick in this draft.   And he was the 21st pick in the first round.  Let’s just hope this organization’s doing its homework and find a good, not necessarily great player at #17.  Enough good players can help them win a lot of games. Enough bad players like Dummy Bear, Evans, Ivey will continue to keep this team hovering around .500 every season.  I’m hoping ES makes his coaching decision before June 25th.  Maybe that would give us all a sense of what type of player they’ll look for in the draft. 

  69. Lonnie Fuller says:

    The Sixers are stuck in no man’s land, that languishing place where you get to the playoffs and bow out early.  You don’t get a top 5 pick and you’re forced to sign average players to big contracts because your fan base won’t tolerate blowing the whole thing up.  From that point, any move that doesn’t get you a stud is treading water.  If they were a 25 win team I would agree with you.  At that point, you want a trade that makes you better even if it doesn’t land the stud.  The current team finished in the bottom half of the conference playoff pool and lost in the first round without Brand or Jason Smith.  Adding those two players to the mix with further improvement by Young and Speights should get you the fourth spot in the conference, home court advantage in the first round and a first round series win.  From there, the next step should be stud.  They are close enough that adding a stud, get’s them into the conference finals at least.  Go for it.


  1. Friday Odds and Ends…

    A poll and a few random thoughts to get the conversation started on Memorial Day Friday….