Update: Samuel Dalembert had a 15% trade kicker which may or may not impact this deal (ridiculously complicated stuff), but it certainly is worth noting. I will cover it in a separate post to explain what it means with regard to potential deals involving him and to rant about Billy King being a complete idiot.
Update: Check out the response from Chris Perkins, Miami Heat beat writer for the Palm Beach Post on this deal.
OK, lots of losing lately lets have some fun on Sunday. Here is my first stab at Sixers trades.
Deal 1: Samuel Dalembert (3 years, $34,080,000) and Andre Miller (1 year, $9,999,999) for Shawn Marion (1 year, $17,810,000) and Mario Chalmers (3 years, $2,310,389 – third year is a team option)
Deal 1 w/sweetener: Samuel Dalembert (3 years, $34,080,000) and Andre Miller (1 year, $9,999,999) for Shawn Marion (1 year, $17,810,000), Mario Chalmers (3 years, $2,310,389 – third year is a team option) and Marcus Banks (3 years, $13,661,379 – aka the sweetener)
Deal 2: Samuel Dalembert (3 years, $34,080,000) and Andre Miller (1 year, $9,999,999) for Shawn Marion (1 year, $17,810,000) and Daequan Cook (3 years, $4,805,177 – third year is a team option)
NOTE: All cap numbers are estimated based on an increase in the salary cap each year of 4%
Why It Works for the Sixers (if it’s not pretty obvious already)
Obviously Deal 1 is the best for the Sixers. It would net us a young starting point guard to replace Andre Miller and enough cap space in either 2009 or 2010 to get an impact player.
Chalmers fits the style the Sixers want to play perfectly. He is a versatile defender at 6-1 who can pressure the ball and create turnovers (1.9 steals per game). I’ve actually been impressed with Chalmers point guard skills and court vision as a rookie this season (thank God for NBA League Pass). He is averaging 5 assists per 36 minutes right now with a better than 2-1 turnover ratio. So I think he has proven he is capable of running a team which was a question mark coming out of college – and he will only get better. Also he is shooting 36.6% from three which is slightly above average but tells me as a rookie he already has a jump shot with potential to get even better.
Marion is nothing more than a great expiring contract for the Sixers. His $17.8M will come off the books leaving the Sixers with approximately $13.5M in cap space to go after a guy like Ben Gordon this summer. That number goes down slightly for the 2010 free agent class. The bonus: the Sixers would have a starting line up of Chalmers, Iguodala, Brand, Marion and Speights/Ratliff and a real bench punch with Thad and Lou to finish the season which could be competitive and strong enough to get in the playoffs if the Sixers figure out a way to hang around going into the trade deadline on February 19th.
Deal 1 w/sweetener is really to get Chalmers a point guard of the future. I have to imagine Miami has been impressed with Chalmers as a rookie starting point guard and wouldn’t want to part with him very easily. So to make the deal better I would be willing to take Banks horrendous contract to get the deal done. As you see I wouldn’t take Banks if the deal included Cook instead of Chalmers as the 2nd player because the Sixers would still need an impact player AND a starting caliber point guard. Further adding Banks wouldn’t net the Sixers enough cap space (only about $8.9M after this season and $8.1M in 2010) to really compete in the open market for Ben Gordon or for any of the big time player in 2010 (although we could probably snatch a 30-year-old Mike Miller if they wanted him). So I would only do this deal if Chalmers is part of the package. Then the Sixers would have to figure out a way to move Banks later (and/or Reggie or Willie) to get far enough under the cap to make a run at someone in free agency.
Deal 2 is not as good but still addresses the Sixers need for a “real” shooter and goes about it the right way, as well as getting some cap space. The problem with many shooting specialists is they aren’t good at anything else (cough – Kareem Rush – cough) and therefore can’t be left on the court long enough to make an impact with their shooting. That isn’t the case with Cook. Not only is he a good three point shooter (42.6% this season on 5.5 attempts), he is also a solid and quickly improving defender who is guarding three positions for Eric Spoelstra. In terms of cap space the Sixers would be around $12.8M this summer and $11.6M in 2010.
Ultimately if the Sixers want to compete in the 2010 free agent class in addition to these proposed deals they would have to figure out a way to move Willie Green AND Reggie Evans contracts. Or more likely some package of Lou Williams and one of those guys so a team doesn’t just laugh in our face. Doing so would get the Sixers far enough under the cap to offer a max deal to someone.
The Sales Pitch to Miami
That was the Sixers fan in me above so obviously I have my biases and want the deal to work out for my team. In order for this deal to happen it has to make some sort of sense for the Miami Heat as well. Here is how I see it/pitch it to the Heat.
Let’s start with this season. Miami is 18-14 and 6th in the conference and clearly a playoff team. They are only 3 and a half games out of the 4th playoff spot and a first round home series against Atlanta or Detroit. Deal 1 adds a veteran point guard and defensive center who would help improve their 24th ranked rebounding. I think this deal would improve their team immediately. It also opens up more minutes for Beasley at the small forward position. A line up of Wade, Miller, Beasley, Haslem and Dalembert is pretty strong. They also would have three shooters at three different positions coming off the bench in Cook, Quinn and Jones (when he returns from injury). That allows Joel Anthony to come off the bench as he probably should be and adds to their front court depth.
I don’t believe Miami is planning to resign Marion (could be wrong) and there have been plenty of reports that they are shopping him so this would net them a legit starting center for the next few years to solidify that position and a veteran point guard who is playing good basketball right now for a playoff run this season.
The other concerns for the Heat are resigning Wade in 2010 and bringing in another impact player to pair with him. I’ve heard Boozer this off-season and Bosh in 2010 as potential targets, maybe even Amare. We also have to consider how do these deals impact the Heat’s future plans.
Well to start I know Deal 1 and 2 kill their chance at Boozer or anyone this summer. With the addition of Dalembert’s contract they would likely be $1M to $2M over the cap. I have them somewhere around $8.6M under the cap going into the summer which wouldn’t be enough to get Boozer anyway without more maneuvering. That could change if A LOT if Mark Blount opted out of his almost $8M next season. But that can’t be likely since Mark Blount certainly won’t get that much as 33-year-old washed up/never really that good free agent center. So I can’t see him turning down that guaranteed money.
Deal 1 w/sweetener isn’t a lot better. It would leave the Heat about $2.6M under the cap and they would need to get rid of Blount and probably Haslem to have enough money to go after Boozer.
As for 2010 the Heat are scheduled to be about $28.8M under the cap and it would be ~$45,984,216 if Wade’s opts out of his $17.1M final year. The best deal for the Heat is obviously the one that includes Marcus Banks. They would would about $39.5M under the cap which should be plenty to resign Wade and go after Bosh/Amare. If they could get one of those guys they would have a core of Wade, Beasley, Bosh/Amare, Cook and James Jones going forward and Sammy for one full season. Then Sammy becomes a free agent in 2011 and they can do what they want with him at that point. They could resign him for less, or take the cap space to find another center or point guard. And don’t forget they do have Shaun Livingston who still can turn out to be a good NBA point guard.
Do you think the Heat would do it?
Miami Heat Bloggers’ Perspective
Those were the trade proposals and pitch. I sent them to a couple Miami Heat bloggers and sportswriters and I am waiting for their reply to get the Heat perspective on the deals which I think is important. It will help truly see the deal from the other side and get the opinions of outsiders about our players. I will post any responses I get once they come in…
Chris Perkins, Inside the Heat
Here are a few instant problems:
The Heat wouldn’t want to take on Dalembert’s contract. Pat Riley is trying not to take on any contracts beyond the 2009-10 season.
The Heat certainly doesn’t want to get rid of Mario Chalmers. He’s the future at point guard, he’s cheap labor and he’s playing well.
The Heat doesn’t want to get rid of Daequan Cook, Again, he’s cheap labor and playing well.
The Heat doesn’t want to get rid of Shawn Marion unless it gets a deal it can’t refuse. Marion fits well with this team. To trade him now would rip the guts out of a squad that appears headed for the playoffs. It might not win a first-round series, but it appears headed for the playoffs, at the very least.
I also happen to think the Heat should re-sign Marion. It’s tough to get a seasoned small forward who can do the things he does. I’m not sure on a contract. In my mind, maybe three years at an average of, say, $8 million per year with a player option on the third year. Some say Marion will be a mid-level guy (about $6 million per year) on the open market. I think he’d get more, but who knows?
The Heat would love to have Andre Miller as a backup to Chalmers (again, Chalmers is the future and you don’t want to stunt his growth) but Miami would likely have to give up too much to rent Miller for a half-season. Yeah, they’d get his salary off the books, but that’s not enough to include a young talent in the deal.
Not sure how much the Heat will pursue Boozer this summer. It already has Udonis Haslem, a team captain and the heart and soul of the team, at a much cheaper salary. And I’m pretty sure Haslem is under contract through 2011 (check that, I’m going off the top of my head). Haslem is no Carlos Boozer, but he’s pretty darn good, and he’s relatively cheap labor at about $7 million.
As for 2010, the Heat has a good free agent recruiter in Dwyane Wade, and it might have a secret weapon in Nick Arison, the son of Heat owner Micky Arison. Nick has been with the Olympic team in Athens (2004) and Beijing (2008). He’s been at every practice and every game as a sort of team manager type role. Anyway, Nick is moving up in Heat ownership (he’s sitting in on personnel meetings this year) and is the eventual owner of the team. The point is, he knows all the Olympians very well, and that could help when it comes to recruiting a superstar in 2010.
On a final note, the Heat doesn’t necessarily want to give Beasley more minutes this season. His defense isn’t up to that level. He’d just get into foul trouble the way he did when he started. And it especially doesn’t want to give Beasley more minutes while losing Marion, its best defender.
Thoughts?
I like the first deal a lot, I think it could be possible. I think if you give Miami Sam and Miller, they become a serious threat with Wade running the show. I am not sure if Riley would be interested in moving Chalmers for Miller, I am sure they would rather do deal 2 a little more. I honestly don’t believe they have any intention of resigning Marion, but I think the hardest thing would be convincing them to lose all that cap space.
I guess they would have a little comfort in the fact that Miller is in his last season.
I know that’s what you want to happen, and I am not saying it is unreasonable, but I am curious to know what you THINK is going to happen in the next few weeks.
Ryan – The Heat would lose cap this summer for sure. But unless they know for sure Blount will opt out they won’t have enough money to go after Boozer. And I don’t think there is anyone else they would spend the money on since they can simply wait until 2010. With Deal 1 w/Banks included they would still be a player in free agency in 2010.
I have no clue what the Sixers are going to do. Signs point to them moving Sammy the way they are limiting his minutes and him being rumored to be shopped.
But the question is are they trying to move him for players or cap space?
Dannie, the reason A.Miller to Miami I always thought wouldn!t work is because Riley always wants a p.g. that is a good defender but is he still involved in their decision making? Ilove Chalmers!! Dannie, please read my last post on previous post, I would like your opinion on it. Thanks.
Cook or Chalmers, gotta go for the p.g., don!t you. Banks has a defensive reputation and has hit the 3 lately, if your taking a bad contract, he has some good qualities.
Suede – Riley had Jason Williams as his point guard the previous three seasons, not exactly known for his defense. The reason I would say Miller doesn’t work is because he can’t shoot the three and we know Wade will dominate the ball late in games and the Heat need to surround him with shooters.
There is no way Blount is going to be walking on that money.
I think it could definitely be a possibility. I am just very curious to see how it plays out because I am sure something is going to happen. I think that we all agree, even when Brand was in the lineup it was not working. The grace period is over and a move has to be made somewhere.
I would really like to see them add a shooter, however they can, whomever it may be. There is not one winning team that cannot shoot. I would like to see another perimeter defender as well. Marion, while not as good as he used to be, could still be that. He is stinking it up from behind the arc this year. If it worked out you could even resign him, definitely not for 17 mill though.
The only way I can see the Sixers make a trade, it would be through a three or four way deal. Those trades are interesting, yet complex. You can trade little value and somehow walk away with some great value in return. Ed Stefanski is perhaps one of the most creative GMs in terms of how he can get major players without sacrificing a lot. (e.g Vince Carter from Toronto to NJ for scrap metal, Mikki Moore in exchange for draft picks, the cap-clearing to obtain Brand)
Get it on channel 234 guys, I don’t even care for football, I just want a Phila team to win a game.
Don’t worry, I already have and I think the Sixers are playing better, despite the 1-5 road trip record. Hopefully, Elton Brand can recover from the shoulder injury, shake off the rust, and play the way he has to play without forcing the issue. His rebounding and shot-blocking are very important for this team, as well as a consistent mid-range shot, especially down the stretch of games. If he and Iggy get it going and are on the same page, then this team can really make some noise. But our woes overall are from the perimeter, offensively and defensively for all four quarters. (Play Rush and Marshall more). The original plan was that Brand would be double-teamed and people would be open for an offensive play (similar to what the Spurs did beautifully yesterday!).
Anyway, GO BIRDS!!!
Guys, I would love your opinion on the last post of previous subject on what this team needs, please give your input, thanks.
Good article for you guys to check out about what Stefanski has been up to and why he hasn’t been as visible. Hint: He isn’t hiding, he is working.
Joe Buck, is Westbrook a factor YET !!!!!
Dannie, interesting article; as long as E.S. isn!t playing them one on one in his driveway I!m fine with it. I!m curious, if Miami would only give you Marion for say, Sam and Willie, would you pull the trigger.
Guys, please read the following and give your opinion, I think I figured IT out, as far as our team.Just watched 2nd half, unbelievable!!!!!
First point,Sammy. Dannie, I disagree when you say that we have a blindness towards Sam, I just feel we play better a lot when he isn’t out there and it is NOT his fault. In the last month he has done everything the coaches have asked down the offensive end, less shots, less bad decisions, and better screening. He just isn’t what this team needs at the 5. I believe he can be on a championship team if surrounded by shooters or a superstar that can get his own shot.
Elton, all the “we can’t run with Elton” talk is bullshit I believe, the reason we have trouble adjusting to Elton is because we deferred too much to him and we are at our best without a singular low post player. Our top 4 players [A.Miller,Iggy,Thad and L.Will.] all play better 15 ft. and in and succeed better without a player clogging their workspace. Elton will work here I believe because he is better playing 10 to 15 ft. away from the basket, just like Thad is doing now.
Dannie, I kept saying Marreese was always getting open jumpers, I think with our team makeup opposing centers instinctly help and back off our centers. I think we have scored MORE low post area baskets since Elton has been hurt because our post player by committee [Thad,Iggy,A.Miller] is playing to our strength.
Dannie, every player since Dileo took over talks about defensive details being stressed in practice. I thought the L.Will. at the p.g. was the biggest issue for E.S. to find out but I think whether we can defend without Sammy or another shot blocker is the bigger point. A.Miller, Iggy, and Thad are VERY difficult to defend when 15 ft. from the basket if the opposing bigs can’t help, I think we are seeing that lately. When Elton comes back a Spieghts Elton tandem should be able to keep the opposing teams bigs from collapsing too much and if we can get a 5 that can consistently hit a jumper [Bonner type] and a 2 guard that plays Willie’s minutes [20 per game] that is a sniper, I really believe this team will take off.
Our strength is guys that can break their man down and until we put shooters at the 5 and 2 for at least 24 min. a night we aren’t capitalizing on our strengths.
Final point, defense. We need to reverse our thinking on our role players, instead of shooters as our role players we need defenders. Look at the Spurs, they look sluggish they go to K.Thomas, Bowen, Udoko, etc.. If our defense was a candle, Reggie would be a match. We have the pieces in place [Reggie,Theo and Royal ] are perfect. If our players are each MORE accountable defensively and it allows us to play shooters more minutes I believe we can win without a superstar because a superstars strength is creating something out of nothing and I believe L.Will.,Iggy,Thad and A.Miller are pretty good at that already.
What do you guys think?
Suede..…..”A.Miller, Iggy, and Thad are VERY difficult to defend when 15 ft. from the basket if the opposing bigs can’t help”………”a Spieghts Elton tandem should be able to keep the opposing teams bigs from collapsing too much.”……….”Our strength is guys that can break their man down and until we put shooters at the 5 and 2 for at least 24 min. a night we aren’t capitalizing on our strengths.”
I get your thinking and I’m good with this. It certainly would do a lot for us.
…….”I believe we can win without a superstar because a superstars strength is creating something out of nothing and I believe L.Will.,Iggy,Thad and A.Miller are pretty good at that already.”
This I’m not so good with. How many times have we seen one of these guys, mostly Iguodala and Williams, also Miller on occasion, pound the ball, run the shot clock down, and get stuck with nothing? More than I can count or care to remember. Then what happens? They either end up handing the ball off to someone else with only a few seconds left on the shot clock or they force up a shot from wherever just to get one off. This, coupled with the mess that is our end of game situations where we rely on Iguodala every time down the floor, is more than enough evidence to show that not only do we not have a guy who can be relied upon to consistently create something out of nothing but that we also need that guy.
Dannie- I am 100% for all of those trades, in the order of 1,3,2. Ideally, I would like to see us end up with a high lottery pick (top 7 at least) rather than overspend on a free agent. If given the choice, would you rather keep any cap space we acquire for a free agent or try to give it up in a trade to acquire a high draft pick?
Suede-
I agree with your point about deferring too often to Brand. He came in as the face of the new 76ers and a big contract, so they tried to push for him to be a game-changing playmaker. It wasn’t often effective, but he can still be successful getting his baskets within a balanced system instead of a system relying on him getting extended lengthy touches in the post each time down the court.
Also, as far as defense goes, I think your last point is pretty good. However, when Bowen/Thomas/Udoka are in the game, the Spurs D is still anchored by Duncan (the best interior defender this decade) and they can still score in the half court with any combination of Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. I do agree that our role players should name defense as one of their main strengths, though.
Blski, last night the cutting was beautiful, I am not saying a lot of dribbling but one on one with a spread defense I like our odds. Dannie, if we bring in Marion, do you change things if he won!t be back or just put him at the 2 guard to keep players in their roles [Iggy,Thad]. How would you handle it as a coach?
Boomdizzle, with the loss of Sam and Theo limited because of age I think we need to improve offensively [5 ppg.?] as a team to make up for a possible slight defensive fall back.
Boom – I will typically always take the proven commodity (free agent) especially so in the Sixers case. What would a draft pick do for this team? They already have two prospects with potential in Speights and Thad they are waiting to bloom. The Sixers need a real impact player that can help them win now. Remember this isn’t a rebuilding team once they resigned Iguodala, Lou and Brand the organization said we are ready to win now. And considering how many top players are free agents in the next couple of years and the lack of expect superstar talent in the upcoming drafts I think the cap space is significantly more valuable right now.
Suede – Marion for Sam and Willie makes absolutely no sense for Miami on the court or in terms of cap space. Willie has no place whatsoever on Miami’s roster and his contract would eat up almost $4M in cap space for the next three seasons. I honestly see no reason to even consider that as a realistic option.
As for as Marion on the Sixers I think there are two options. Brand at center with Marion at PF, Thad, Dala and Chalmers. Or much more likely, Speights/Ratliff, Brand, Marion at SF, Iguodala and Chalmers. Thad goes to the bench for half a season.
Suede….”one on one with a spread defense I like our odds.”
If we would do that, I would too. We don’t do it much now, but you’re saying that’s because, without the shooters, things are too clogged up. Having shooters at the 2 and 5, like you are suggesting, could open things up enough for your idea to work. It would also make our pick and roll plays much more effective, like what the Mavs were able to do to us the other night with Terry and Nowitzki.
Dannie, with the urgency to win to keep Wade, and Marion leaving opening up minutes, Willie could serve a purpose as a 3rd guard if they like Cook at the 3 [played there this week]. The 2 variables are , how much they want Sammy, and can D. Wright give them quality minutes though. When the A.Miller trade talk came up last year, league sources said A.Miller wasn!t a P.Riley kind of p.g., but they didn!t elaborate on it much.
Blski, we improved a lot even though we lost 4 of the last 5. How many teams go to those arenas and win. Injuries to those teams were evened up with Brand out and other than Utah [who we always have trouble with] every game was winnable.
On this road trip, I wasn’t looking for us to go 2-3 or whatever…I was more intrested in how well we would play and what we could learn about the team. It could have been easy for us to lie down and get stomped on last night, but we came back and almost beat a great team. Thats the kind of things I liked about our road trip. We played good.
A promising sign for me, is that the past couple games, Thad and Iggy have both been putting up scoring numbers both playing within themselves. They arent fighting for shot attempts or nothing like that. Usually its one or the other having a good game.
p.s. The Reggie Evans butt slap of the ref cracks me up. Haha. The guy is just full of energy out there. Him and Theo played great off the bench.
Suede – I think you are trying to make Willie fit, but really don’t see it even a little bit. How does his game and style of play even fit let alone his salary? I can’t ever see him on the court with Wade, because he would pretty much be relegated to a jump shooter and as Sixers fans we know best that isn’t his strength. They have Wade, Cook, Wright AND James Jones who they just signed who will be coming back from injury as well to play the wing positions. That makes him the 5th wing player. Why would they pay $4M for a 5th wing player on their roster, ESPECIALLY when they are paying Marcus Banks about a million more per season to barely play?
The exact quote was: ”Miller’s not a Pat Riley point guard. He doesn’t shoot (consistently) from range, he’s always overweight and he’s limited defensively.”
I don’t know about the overweight talk (maybe in the first quarter of the season) and his concerns about shooting from range and defense are the same stuff we talk about here, nothing new there. Miller is nothing more than good point to have passing to wade and to help get other players on the court involved especially when Wade isn’t on the court. More importantly he is an expiring contract that allows them to get a defensive and rebounding starting Center for Marion (which I gotta imagine Riley would like) and maintain their cap position for 2010.
Guest, an extra win would of helped but I like the way things look, I usually erase a game off the D.V.R. after I watch it but that 2nd half I WILL watch again.
Dannie, I forgot about J.Jones. If Cook or Chalmers aren!t available do you see a way to get Marion?
Suede – The deal works financially without Chalmers or Cook, so it would become nothing more than a cap deal for the Sixers. I prefer to get one of those two players because they fill an immediate need with a young player and cheaply.
At the very least toss in Shaun Livingston and give him tryout for the rest of the season. If he plays well, resign him as a potential point guard of the future. He works nicely because he is tall and if the Sixers ever did want to start Louis Williams as the off guard he would work perfectly next to him as a bigger guard.
I am going to respond to your other comment you wanted feedback on now.
Suede – About your other comment…
I am probably just going to do a post about Sammy since that seems to be a hot topic and point of contention lately. In the end I think I will just agree to disagree about Sam for the most part. All people seem to say with regard to him is I see this or I see that. I think this and I think that. Nothing tangible, no stats, all observation and opinion. The main reason is because Sam’s numbers don’t support much of the bashing, so people can’t use them to support their arguments against him. That’s OK. I just prefer to use all the data available when evaluating players and analyzing the game. Meaning using stats and observation. I personally like stats and interpreting their meaning. That’s just me though.
You already know that it’s my belief that you can’t really win much in the NBA WITHOUT shooters and a superstar, so your point about Sam not fitting because the Sixers don’t have shooters or a star just says he isn’t really the problem or what the Sixers don’t need. We know he brings defense and rebounding which are two of the 4 factors to winning basketball games. THE FACT that we don’t have shooters or a star is the bigger issue and what we need and should be resolved before moving Sammy or be the sole reason to move Sammy (acquire those missing pieces) as I suggested in this post. But again, you try to fix one problem via trading a contributor often times you simply create another one.
Agree, never thought that. In fact been saying the same thing whenever it comes up.
I think Elton will work here if three things happen.
I think all opposing centers help and and back off all non-three point shooting centers when penetration occurs. Not just with the Sixers. It’s the definition of help defense. That’s why the first part good half-court defense is limiting penetration.
About the points in the paint without Elton: With Elton 44.3 points in the paint per game. Without Elton 43.8 points in the paint per game. (I have a spreadsheet with stats like this for every game this season)
I think the shooters on this team should be at both guard positions (point guard and shooting guard) rather than the 5 and 2 as you prefer. If I must make a choice, I want to control the paint and I will always prefer my center to be a defender and rebounder first, and a scorer/shooter second. Obviously if you can have both that is ideal, but there aren’t many centers capable of that, let alone are available.
Just read what I wrote in in the “deal 2″ paragraph where the Daeqan Cook image is.
Finally…
I basically addressed this in my anatomy of a champion post. You MUST clarify what you mean by “win.” Sure you can win some regular season games, get in the playoffs win a series, maybe two. But I don’t believe you can be a legit championship contender without a superstar – not at all. I’ve said it many times before, you are betting against history if you think you can win a championship without an unquestioned star.
Also, I think you are significantly diminishing what a real superstar is. The reason a player is a superstar is because he has a multitude of strengths. So many that you can take any one strength away and he still will be dominant. Also, he has an ability to lift the games of his teammates and comes through in the clutch. Plus a laundry list of other things we don’t need to get into. Lou, Dala, Thad and Miller all have the same strength dominant strength (penetrating and finishing at the basket) that if you take it away they become average players at best and their impact is severely limited. Not to mention now one has proven they can rise to the occasion at the end of close games (happens a lot more often in the playoffs) or consistently lift the decent but not great talent on the Sixers to a much higher level (coming close to beating good teams and moral victories doesn’t count in my book).
“Pretty good” at something certainly isn’t good enough to be a contender either.
I promise never to write a comment this long, but I wanted to be thorough.
Thanks Dannie, I don’t like a closer by committee in baseball but prefer 2 to 3 options to go to in basketball, depending on the best match up, I think it keeps teams on their heals, for loss of a better term.
You mentioned your exception [Jordan] last week when discussing having a post player inside. Dannie, Iggy on the elbow looks real effective lately and at the 2 I feel that can be even more effective. If you take positions out of it for a second, you need guys in the low post, guys on the wings and a guy up top. The Bulls were far from conventional with a p.g. spot up shooter [Armstrong], A p.f. [Grant] who had a good wing jumper, a s.f. that handled up top and a 2 guard that was unstoppable on the block. I am not comparing us talent wise but I am in being unconventional. Who would have thought 2 small forwards could be on a 50 win team [Orlando].
Dannie, I’m not optimistic that major changes are coming, a start over, if you would, so I would like to see an attempt to get the most out of what we have, and yes, if Elton doesn’t get back to being 90% of what he was it is all for naught anyway.
As far as points in the paint, over the last 3 losses against pretty good defensive teams it seemed we were getting a lot of layups and such with a variety of players. My getting more low post points wasn’t directed at Elton but more at our play recently with everybody getting touches inside depending on match ups.
Dannie, I really feel if Elton can be our anchor defensively we can improve big time down on the offensive end and still be good on defense. You may watch in more detail but is Sammy, that much of a factor defensively because it seems to me Theo, though less of a shot blocking threat is able to get to spots and deter drivers without leaving his feet and Dannie, I’ll be honest with you, I think Reggie has been as big a factor lately as Sam, without blocking shots.
Dannie, got to hit the sack, have a good night. As far as a superstar, call me crazy but watching L.Will. and Thad recently I have a feeling in 2 years Iggy may be our 5th best player, if A.Miller doesn!t need a walker by then.
Who gives Samuel Dalembert a “trade kicker”….oh that’s right
Is that a common thing Dannie, or did Sammy really get a clause that a superstar deserves?
Dannie, Some recorded tangibles since Dalembert became 76ers starting center (’03-’04 season):
1) Sixers overall record: 202 wins, 241 losses; .456 clip
INDIVIDUAL
2) 417 games played (94.1%), 362 games started (81.7%)
3) 28.34 minutes per game … difficulty remaining on court
4) 672 turnovers (1.61 pg), 197 assists (0.47 pg) … well over 3-1 ratio … all thumbs and no clue
5) 3,657 points (8.76 pg)
6) 3,564 rebounds (8.54 pg)
7) 871 blocked shots (2.09 pg) … goaltendings not included
8) financial compensation (not including ’08-’09): $30,671,016.00
9) dismissals from Canadian national team: 1
In sum, he’s an overpaid, sub-par player whose court stupidity and interactive recalcitrance – and effects - is not fully reflected in the wanting mediocrity of his individual statistics. He’s a tall utility, not a legitimate starting center for a serious contender.
JJG – Good effort, I already had a post planned that would serve as sort of a rebuttal/further discussion point at some point this week.
Then I will probably devote much less energy to the Dalembert debate with people obviously deeply rooted in their opinion of him, his production and his value.
Dannie My post was in response to your assertion that negative Dalembert opinions were arbitrarily, not factually, derived. Of course ALL opinion is subject to personal bias, but Sam “bashing” (your word choice) has solid numerical foundation, contains more scientific assessment than you’ve credited. I’m sure your next post on him will prove to be both interesting and controversial.
JJG – That’s why I said good effort. Most people that talk about Sam rarely, if ever take the short time necessary to gather just the boxscore data you just did. That is where I typically have issue. The second part where I have issue is when data is provided that speaks favorably of Dalembert the typical response is “no stats/no argument will every change my mind or my opinion of xyz player” even if the argument is sound and convincing. OR one day a person is all about stats for one player and the next day “I don’t pay attention to stats” with regard to another. I see that type of flip flopping often with regard to Dalembert.
At that stage I see no point beating my head against the wall or doing analysis on the subject because in that case their really isn’t a conversation.
Me personally, I am not a Sam hater or lover. I don’t think he is great and have written on more than one occasion about his bonehead plays, dumb comments and ineptness offensively in the post, but I also don’t think he is as bad as people make him out to be either.
Dannie Fair enough. “Lightning Rod” Sam will always spur emotive discussion. I suspect he wouldn’t have it any other way.
JJG/Dannie- Thank you both for a well balanced discussion on Sammy. While I tend to be critical of Sammy, my biggest issue is he does not concentrate on his strengths. If he rebounded and blocked shots consistently, I would love having him there. But, he HAS to touch to ball and make mistakes in bunches, not occassionally. But, once again, well thought out.. Hope to see more of this on other players in the future!
Guys, I wanted to mix Dannies idea [cap space] with my idea [perimeter 5 and sniper at the 2] and see if it could work. Dannie has stated that to do it right you have to build to win now and have a plan for the future also, that is the tough part. Getting money [2 big contracts that expire in same year] to clear is the key. First, feel out what A.Miller would want to resign for, if he asks for 3 yrs. at 30 you discuss the possibility of shortening it to a 2 year deal that is for more value [25 mill. ?], these figures are just estimates. Then you try to acquire B.Miller and J.Salmons from Sacramento [both on the market]. Miller!s deal [11 mill. +] expires in 2 years. An offer of Sammy,Jason, Willie and if needed, this years #1 may be enough. This allows a 2 year window to win with this group [A.Miller,Salmons,Iggy, Elton, B.Miller] with our 3 amigos coming off the bench and maturing by the minute. Dannie mentioned Cook being able to defend and Salmons should fill that bill also and B.Miller!s passing skills and outside shot I feel would fit here like a glove. In 2 years if it doesn!t work the team clears both Miller contracts and our 3 amigos! games should be more defined and then you build around them.
Inspired by suede, I have a proposal, though I haven’t run it through “trade machine” yet – a 32 player intersport and intergenerational deal:
Sam Dalembert, Sam Spade, Sam Snead, Sam Huff, Sam Baker, Sam Jones, Sam McDowell, Sammy Ellis, Sam Ervin, Sammie Sims, Sammy White, Sammy Winder, Sam Perkins, Sam Cassell & Sam The Sham (of the Pharoahs) [15]
for
Mel Counts, Mel Roach, Mel Queen, Mel Farr, Mel Tom, Mel Turpin, Mel Bennett, Mel Sharples, Mel Gibson, Mel Torme and Harold Melvin (of the Blue Notes), along with Cotton Nash, Jim Nash, John Nash, Steve Nash, Nash Bridges and Dash Riprock [17]
I see both teams benefiting from this intricate blockbuster swap if signatures can be attained.
I gotta say, the DiLeo/ Stefanski team are not exactly showcasing ol’ Sam very well, are they? More interested in winning, which shows their opinion of Sam. By the way, he has a trade kicker? Oh Billy, Billy, Billy…
jjg: I can get you a power of attorney document from Harold Melvin if it helps.
Morty Billy was young and impressionable as Sam was feverishly battening down the hatches versus Pistons. King was captive to a vision. Better than Russell, Sam was gonna be.
Thanks for offer of paper help but the deal’s fallen apart as a few of the principals are of “unable to perform” status. Back to the drawing board.
Jumpin, your Sam numbers are eerily familar to an old journeyman center from the 70!s, Otto Moore if I remember correctly was an 8 and 8 guy also, but back than the center competition was a tad stronger.
Not a bad comparison, suede. But Otto was a better passer (1.6 assists career) in traffic! Our guy looks a little like Harry Belafonte and plays a little like Harry Bagodonuts.
Taking it teamwide, those ’69-’70 Pistons had 4 sweet shooters Sixers only dream of: Dave Bing, Jimmy Walker, Eddie Miles and Terry Dischinger. Weak frontline included a nearly finished “Bells” Bellamy, Erwin Meuller (all-rookie team w/Bulls; the greatest German before Nowitzki!), NYU’s Happy Hairston, a rook by the name of Steve Mix and the undominant Mr. Moore. Team finished 31-51. Gives an idea of NBA strength in pre-expansion days.
Jumpin, you still haven!t told me your 1st move to straighten this team out, I!ve been tryin but!!!
suede Forgot. Based on your impressive industry of trade potentialities, I recommend you to the War Room, to be situated in a swiveling leather seat between Courtney Witte, Tony “Whispers” DiLeo and Monsignor Eddie. The organization could use an injection of creative sticktoitiveness and unswerving belief.
If I come up with a remedy, I’ll let ya know. In the immediate, I say, “Play some defense, boys – it’s good for ya. Watch ‘Grampa’ Ratliff, and do like he does.”
Jumpin, in their prime ,Sam could probably outrun and outjump Theo but ; are great defenders coached or born that way, I tend to think the latter. He was great at Wyoming, I assume also in high school and probably in the living room with the plastic backboard and rim. Sammy had a coach, L.Brown, who!s attention to detail is probably anal, to a point .
suede Both innate and acquired. But it takes a long attention span & to-the-wall desire to be a great defender. Theo outdoes Sam to a certain degree in those respects, my opinion.
Other NBA Wyoming Cowboys: Bill Garnett, Reggie Slater, Eric Leckner, Charles Bradley, Fennis Dembo.
Dannie- Have you not received any responses from Heat writers? I was looking forward to their input
Jumpin, what 1 factor made E.S. shop him; [chunk of cap his salary uses up, insistance on wanting big minutes, a different type of 5, etc.] .
Boomdizzle, my opinion is it is tough for a front office to move young drafted players, especially when you are starting to win. I picture E.S. getting calls on our 3 youngings, and we aren!t winning yet, and saying no. Iwent back and looked at last years draft, ironically Minn. gave up Chalmers pick. He would look good next to Foye, wouldn!t he?
Even his rebounding has been inconsistent, at least with Brand you would get consistent rebounding in large numbers.
But trading Dalembert is going to be tricky, not only with the contract, but the fact that his shotblocking and his rebounding are the only things that are keeping him on this team in the minutes he gets.
So, in my opinion, the Sixers will make a trade in the form of a three or four way deal and get some additional pieces and leverage from other teams!
And, also I think Tony DiLeo has been doing a great job of coaching, despite the (4-6) record. The team’ s effort and energy has certainly been there and they have been playing the half-court better. Add Elton Brand’s return along with shaking off the rust, this team will be much better. Andre Iguodala is now starting to look like the guy we handed that big contract to and I wouldn’t mind having him as the team’s leading scorer and Brand being second. He is starting to score in a facet of ways, now he just has to solidify the jumper more, but I like what I see from him. He is dunking in traffic and dunking more in the likes of some intimidating teams!! For closing the game out, in this certain order, have it as Brand, Miller, and then Iggy be the closers for the Sixers. If Speights can get more minutes and play BETTER defense, then Sammy can be expendable! Also, Rush and Marshall need minutes, otherwise we are just wasting their shooting talents and then they could torch on us another team. I certainly don’t want that to happen! Anyway, it’s great to see them back home and GO SIXERS!! Let’s turn that better effort now into an inrow of wins!!
Rob, ironically the last 3 losses to me gave me more hope than our new coaches first 3 wins. I am looking forward to Elton being added to what we are seeing. Some more Sammy numbers [reb. per 48 min.] 1]Biedrens 2]D.Howard 3]E.Dampier 4]Prizbilla 5]Sammy 6]A.Gray 7]A.Bogut 8]Z.Pachula/J.Noa 10]D.Lee [blocks per 48 min.] 1]Howard 2]J.Anthony 3]R.Hibbert 4]J.Noah 5]J.Mcgee 6]B.Lopez 7]A.Bynum 8]K.Koufas 9]K.Perkins 10]J.Oneal 11] Sammy Dannie, how about that J.Noa !!! Just kiddin.
suede Do you think companies trade million dollar assets on the basis of one factor?
Jumpin, good point. Those rankings are the 5 position only, by the way.
Boom – I have not heard back. Either I got bad contact information or they just don’t understand the social aspect of online publishing and blogging and have ignored me.
Initial thought- It really bugs me how “Heat” is used as singular. “Heat doesn’t” and “Heat has” .
Otherwise, I guess they view Chalmers and Cook the way we view Lou, Thad or Speights. They would be hard to acquire.
I know Ratliff is playing very well for us recently, but I bet he could be a good asset for a different team’s championship run. I wonder if we could exchange him for a good young point or swing man from Boston (Gabe Pruit, Bill Walker, J.R. Giddens), Utah (Morris Almond, Ronnie Price), or Dallas (Gerald Green). I think Boston would be the most likely of those three to want Ratliff.
The only problem I have with trading Theo is Speights’ development. Marreese’s D is his biggest problem, and having a vet like Theo is probably very beneficial.
boom Yeah, that singular plural thing was trippin me out also. The Heat to me is plural. You don’t say, “The Heat is good.” You say, “The Heat are good.” It’s not that big of a deal though.
Urg! Thats not what I wanted to hear from the Heat writers. I respect their point, and I guess we overrated our players and they overrated their players a little bit. Not wanting to give them up. I really like that trade though. Too bad it probably won’t ever happen.
Yeah Dannie, that was the response I would of expected.
Guys, if we make no trades in the next 2 years and just draft a sniper and future p.g. maybe we will still be alright. In 3 years we clear Sam, Reggie and Willie [21 mill.?] and out of our 3 amigos I believe at least 1 will be at an allstar level right. So if L.Will.,Thad and Marreese are reaching their prime and our 2 draft picks have a year under their belt and Iggy and Elton are playing well than we get the final piece through free agency. By the way, are we better off moving A.Miller and getting under the cap or keeping him and adding a mid level exception player.
Suede - Couple things.
Since we started this blog and called in the Recliner “GM” I have really tried to think about all the angles as a GM would. Those questions I think all come into play and would need some sort of answers when considering your plan – among others I haven’t even thought of.
Boom – I think Ratliff has tremendous value for a title contender like a Boston or San Antonio but his veteran’s minimum salary would not net the Sixers any player of value or cap space and considering these are all elite teams their first round draft picks will be late.
The strategy could be along the lines of what Portland has done and just hoard draft picks regardless of position and use them to sweeten deals for better players, good but young players that don’t fit on their current team or their team has given up on them, use them and make savvy draft picks, or package a few to move up high enough to get an impact college player.
Call it the Kevin Pritchard model. Part of the problem with that model is, it makes plenty of sense for a team that was bad and rebuilding. They had time to collect all those picks, draft players, develop some etc.
The Sixers aren’t exactly in that position. I think they have 3-4 years with Brand playing at a strong enough level to be a solid #2 player on a championship team. That means you need to find a #1 early in that time frame to maximize him being on the roster.
Just some more food for thought.
Dannie, I was playing the devil!s advocate. Just went through all the playoff teams. For Theo and maybe a 2nd rounder could we possibly get M.Almond? For Sam there are 4 to 5 teams if expiring contracts are all we are looking for and I keep coming back to Indiana [Nestorovic,Diener ?]. Dannie, I know getting the superstar first is the way to go but for us to do it we would have to blow it up or find a gem drafting 15 to 20; my hope is we get 2 all stars out of our young 3 but realisticly one is probably more like it. I hope it clicks when Elton comes back and we get to [42?] wins this year and 48 to 50 next year.
By the way, does the dominance of Boston and L.A. make a G.M. plan for a run in 3 years rather than now, I know he probably can!t but.
I’d target Minny for a Sammy trade. The have a 6Mil expiring center in Collins and a shooter/scorer in McCants(also expiring). I think it might have to be a 3 way trade. Can’t quite make it work sensibly. For Minny to compete in the West they will need a taller big in their rotation. I think Craig smith would need to go if they acquire another big in their rotation. We don’t really need him on our roster as constituted.
The “Kevin Pritchard Model” looks like it will be the blueprint of a rebuilding team and, like you said, the Sixers aren’t in that position. I think the team is more in the mold of the Celtics pre-KG with two exceptions: not bad enough to get a top-5 pick and no established top dog like Pierce. Here is what the Sixers have to work with, as I see it:
1. Andre Miller’s expiring contract and veteran talent for a team making a playoff run (Orlando?)
2. Theo Ratliff as a rent-a-center for a playoff run (Boston?)
3. Thaddeus Young and Marreese Speights as emerging young talent (similar to Jefferson/Gomes/Telfair)
A good GM can work with this.
The problem is:
1. Samuel Dalembert, Reggie Evans and Willie Green’s contracts (1 year too long)
2. Elton Brand’s age
These are inhibitively conflicting. We want to acquire a #1 within the next three years while Brand is at his peak, but we are bound by these contracts for the majority of this time. If we can wait two years, we would have roughly $19 million in expiring contracts, but there is the demand to make moves now, right?
So basically I propose we have Brand cryogenically frozen for two years.
Also, I would explore this trade or one similar:
Boston gets: Theo Ratliff
Philadelphia gets: Gabe Pruitt
Have I missed/overlooked anything? Does this make the Sixers options clearer for anyone?
Boom, like your approach. I’d add Lou Will & Jason Smith to emerging young talent. Tough call for a GM who wants to win now. With that premise maybe some young talent does go.
SFW, Lou Will and Smith probably could be added. I left out Lou Will because he isn’t on his rookie contract and Smith because of his injury. They both could still be considered, though.
I thought about this some more and see three steps that I think are reasonable for this year:
1. Trade Ratliff for a young prospect or draft pick.
- We aren’t winning this year and Ratliff won’t be around when we do.
2. Trade Dalembert for a more manageable contract/contracts
- Dalembert isn’t playing well enough to be part of a deal that provides a substantial improvement for this team. However, I would be happy if he could be moved for a player or players with contracts expiring next year rather than in 2011 like his. This would put us in a better position to make a substantial deal next year when teams are trying to clear cap space to sign all those blockbuster free agents. I’m not sure if this is entirely possible because teams have already begun maneuvering for these contracts.
3. Trade Andre Miller for…something
- The situation with Miller is tough because he is playing so well right now. How does he fit into the near future for the Sixers? I can’t say, but there must be some demand for him around the league, both as a player and as a contract.
These steps wouldn’t put us over the top, but they would provide us with more flexibility sooner to acquire impact players.
Here’s something more specific to chew on:
Washington gets: Samuel Dalembert, Jason Smith and/or a pick
Philadelphia gets: Brendan Haywood and Etan Thomas
- Brendan Haywood and Etan Thomas are a combined $12 million that expires next year. I still doubt the Wizards would make the deal because Dalembert is a doofus, but their big three are locked up so they won’t be in the free agent market.
I’m ok with some young talent going. The thing is, what #1 level talent is out there that we can get?
Going the Celtics’ route works for me but, off the top of my head, I can’t think of any “superstar level” player who is in a situation like KG, or to a lesser extent, Ray Allen was. At least not one I’d want.
Maybe we could get someone who appears to be on the cusp but it’s not quite happening with his current team or someone who might blossom if given the opportunity. Again, I can’t think of anyone off the top of my head.
For now I keep hoping that the Jazz might lose their heads or something and we could get Deron Williams (He was sick on Wednesday and didn’t play well against the Hornets so…). Maybe they really like Ronnie Price. With the Boozer flap, maybe he’s on his way out. Maybe they would be interested in Speights to back up Milsap. They get next to nothing from Harpring. Maybe they’d bite on Young. OK, stop laughing. I know it’s not going to happen. I’m just rambling trying to think of some way to pull off something big.
Boon, it may be either Sammy or Ratlif. I’d hate to see Andre go but whatever works to get to the next level. Good point about the wizards and the free agent market.
bski, your starting to lose it. Sixers better make a trade soon or we’ll all be mumbling …………………………
I’m doing my best to hang in there, sfw.
As far as when we might expect to see a trade, I found this on the transcript of Kate Fagan’s live chat from yesterday:
[Comment From See Oh D]
Do you see Eddie Stef pulling any trades?
Kate: Here’s my gut feeling: The Sixers won’t be pulling the trigger on a trade anytime soon. From talking to the guys and DiLeo, I think they’re all anxious to see how all these pieces work with Brand back in the lineup. If 10 games after Brand returns, they are still struggling, then look for a trade around the All-Star break, just before the deadline.
“Gut feeling?” Personally that sounds like common sense and the expectation every NBA season. If you’ve followed the NBA and have been reading the NBA guys stuff the consensus never changes, rumors heat up at the All-star break and a few days before the February 19th trade deadline is when most deals that matter happen.
I don’t think anyone expects the Sixers to make a deal anytime soon, unless it was an irresistible offer of some sort. If they do it would be a complete surprise to me. It just doesn’t make much sense to do anything right now for a few reasons.
This team is still in flux. They lose 4 win 2. Tonight they very well may win three in a row, but then they face 4 tough opponents and if they simply lose those games against better teams they will continue to have fleeting wins and no consistency in terms of victories. They still have no clue who they are with Brand playing.
My opinion the only way a deal is made now is if Stefanski feels like I do. Meaning regardless of how Brand fits in or the team plays this team still isn’t good enough to compete for anything more than a first round playoff win.
I don’t believe he views the team as I do. Which means he still needs time to evaluate before he can really make a move, especially with Brand on the court.
Much rather have a draft pick for Theo than Gabe Pruitt. Only way Pruitt works out is if he plays well enough to become a legit starting point guard and I don’t see that happening. I see him as a career back up but its hard to tell having only been in the league two seasons and not getting much burn. He could very well be just like Crittendon. A guy that just bounces around and never plays.
On the other hand, with the draft pick I could end up with a player that plays well, I can package it with other picks to move up in the draft, or I can package it with players to sweeten a deal for a more proven player. I rather have the options the pick offers.
Dannie, I guess we’ll just have to keep throwing out those trade suggestions for another month.
V.Carter,issues; M.Redd,M.Miller,T.McGrady, all injury risks; R.Artest, mass murderer, just kidding!!! All these guys would be a major upgrade here but are any worth the risk? D. Cook, M.Almond, E.Gordon, future studs? maybe; probably not gettable. Guys, if E.S. was a betting man and his own house was on the line I think he would choose going for it in year 3 rather than years 1 or 2. He has to hope A] Elton,because of the year off, can be effective years 3 through 5 B]a stud free agent that fits a need is available in 2011 because we are doing things bass ackwards and C] one or two of our 3 amigos is or are 20 ppg. players by then. I personally would rather get healthy, add M.Barnes and [Buddinger or W.Warren] to our existing group and possibly get to the finals in the year 2010 if we become a TEAM and get a quality coach next year.
In 3 years the free agent talent is good, according to hoopshype. Y.Ming,Koby,K.Durant [play. option], T.Parker,P.Gasol. With our situation of not being able to build around a star at least each position has a big time talent. Lesser pieces include; J.Richardson,J.R.Smith, C.Butler, M.Dunleavy,P.Stojakovic and Del. West. Dannie, I feel this is the way to go but only if we slightly get better along the way because to try to do it now it would probably take three years anyway along with giving up 1 to 2 of our young pieces.
Suede – I don’t think so.
Kobe will likely sign an extension and I don’t think he will be available. Although maybe coming home to Philly could be a motivator if our team is ready to win a championship at that point and he is the final piece.
I want no part of Yao. And I think he could opt out in the Summer of 2010 with the rest of the super super stars. And to be completely honestly in 3 years it’s possible he might not be able to play. Guys that big don’t last long and I think their performance decreases at a higher rate as they age.
Durant I think will be a restricted FA not player option so I couldn’t consider him an option. And the Thunder very well could just extend him before he even becomes a free agent.
Gasol will be 31 and I am not sure he is a #1 at that point.
If we still don’t have a point guard Parker makes sense at 29 years old
The rest are pointless if we don’t have a #1 guy. Those guys are supplemental players. We shouldn’t need that kind of player in three years.
Dannie, it is as hard as you said it would be to make it work. What is your most realistic getback for Sam and A.Miller now ?
Suede – I plan to write a post about this at some point before the trade deadline but here is some of what I have already.
For Sammy: Some combination of expiring contracts, equally bad contracts as but with 1 less year on it, draft picks and/or maybe a decent young player.
Sam’s contract is 1-year too long, about $3-4 too rich and has a ridiculous 15% trade kicker that is prohibitive to deals as well. If his contract ended the summer of 2010 all the contenders could get him for a two year title run and still be in the mix for free agents that summer.
For Miller: all of the above with a much more likely chance to get a decent young player.
The problem I see with Miller is his strong performance right now is almost meaningless when considering his value in trades because the teams poised for a title run don’t need a starting point guard. Boston, LA, New Orleans, Orlando, Miami, Phoenix could absolutely use a back up point guard right now and I don’t see how Miller with a $10M contract and desire to play heavy minutes fits with any of them. Let alone those teams would need to send back enough salary to get him which probably isn’t possible while still keeping their championship pieces intact.
Miami, Houston, Milwaukee Portland and maybe LA are the only playoff teams I think Miller would be an immediate upgrade over their current starting point guard. And none of this considers his style of play and how it would fit with that team which is more important to think about with deals to playoff teams.
To me that really just makes him an expiring contract.
Being a GM is ridiculously difficult.
Dannie, I was gonna try and argue that we are as talented as some of the playoff teams and do comparison!s of positions, because I think we are closer than you feel we are. New Orleans for example, but than I looked at the 3pt. percentage of these teams and we are fighting an uphill battle against most of them in a 7 game series. Stojakovic against Iggy for example; Iggy is probably as good or better but Stojakovic fills a need for his team. If we get young talent for Sam and A.Miller I hope it is guys that can shoot the ball. [Donte Greene,N.Young, etc.]
Suede - Last Tuesday I watched the Lakers play the Hornets. And let me just give you some numbers:
Kobe Bryant: 39 points, 7 assists, 4 boards, 14-22 from the field, 6-7 from three, 5-6 from the line. The most spectacular 3rd quarter I’ve seen from an individual player all season. He scored 20 in that quarter scoring in every way possible.
Chris Paul: 32 points, 15 assists, 3 steals, 3 boards, on 11-26 from the field, 9-9 from the line, 1-3 from three. And guess what ZERO TURNOVERS.
David West: 40 points, 11 boards, 2 steals, 14-23 from the field, 12-13 from the line. This man was completely unstoppable the entire game. The Lakers put every front court player on the roster on him to slow him down. He destroyed Gasol with flawless jumpers, and timely drives. Andrew Bynum he did the same. It was unbelievable how dominant he was.
The Hornets won 116 to 105.
My point, don’t waste your time trying to compare the Sixers talent to the elite teams. Here’s why…
The elite players on those teams alone likely equal the entire Sixers roster. The reason I say that is because the usage of those guys are so high. Meaning their impact on the game is always significant.
Watching that game I realized something. Those three players dictated the entire game. They had the ball the entire game. Now that doesn’t happen every game, but when we are talking about a playoff series those guys are capable of winning at least a game or two themselves, maybe more if they get hot the way they were in that game. The Sixers have NO ONE on that level at all.
John Hollinger made this point about Cleveland in the playoffs with LeBron. Why is it that a team with a marginal regular season record and OK but not great talent pushing elite teams to the brink of elimination the past two playoffs, including getting the Finals with a subpar overall team in 2007? LeBron completely controls the game.
In the playoffs you must have at least one of those guys win. I’ve said it many times before and I really just think people ignore that reality because the Sixers don’t have one. The crazy part is we’ve witnessed this ourselves in 2001 when AI took the Sixers to the Finals and was able to win a single game on his own against a far superior Lakers team.
The Sixers in a year or two if Young, Speights, Lou and Dala continue to develop could have 4-5 guys with good talent. But I still don’t think that is enough to beat a team with a LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul.
Dannie, The most spectacular 3rd quarter, I would give to Melo’s 33 in that one quarter.
But you are right, Kobe was amazing to watch that quarter. I agree that we can’t beat the Kobe, Wade, and Lebrons of the league with those 4 players, but can we aquire one of those “special” players without giving up one of those 4? Because thats basically what we would have to do to win a championship right? Have a go-to guy like Wade, but have 4 surrounding players that can play well and make plays.
Guest – I said the most spectacular quarter I’ve seen. I didn’t personally see Melo’s quarter. I am sure Melo’s was ridiculous, especially since they needed that to come back from a 12-point deficit.
I am fine with giving up any one of the those players to get an elite player. But like I said in a previous comment about “untouchable” players no team would trade a proven superstar for our young players with potential. I know I wouldn’t.
If the Sixers are going to get a big time player it will have to come via free agency and it will have to come in the summer of 2010. In order to be in position to get one Stefanski will have to find a way to move Dalembert and at least one of these players: Willie Green, Reggie Evans or Louis Williams. In return the Sixers would need to get contracts that expire in the summer of 2010. That would give the Sixers anywhere from $18M to $20 million in cap space.
But again, every team is playing this game. So there are very few teams willing to exchange shorter contracts for longer term contracts.
Ed has his work cut out for him.
Ok, I see your point.
Do you think there would be a possibility of trading for an older superstar. Ive said this on some other topic.
At Minny, Kevin Garnett was definetly not untouchable. But as soon as the Celtics got him he became untouchable. Some players may be untouchable for some teams but not for others.
Is there one of those players out there for us? An older superstar who clearly isnt going anywhere with his team right now, and wants to get traded. Allen Iverson next season maybe?
Otherwise than we need cap for 2010. I would hate to be a GM.
Guest, V.Carter may fall into that category along with M.Redd, if Milwaukee tumbles in the standings, although if they get Conley for Sessions and Alexander, as its being reported, that tells me they are trying to win now. Jerm. Oneal could accomplish the cap problem for us or ,if healthy, could be a borderline #1 guy although I wouldn!t acquire him for the latter reason.
suede
I was thinking Vince Carter exactly. I didnt list his name because I didn’t know about his contract situation and when it expired. I wouldnt want him just for like 2 years because by then, our young players might not have reached their full potential yet.
Michael Redd would be awsome here if we could get him. I really don’t understand why the Bucks are trying to win now? I mean they arent that good are they? But if we get Redd, and keep our slashers than we could be a pretty awsome team. Maybe not a championship team, but a big improvement.
The question still remains…Can we manage to be successful with Elton Brand in the lineup without building around him? We dont really have a player to build around, like Dannie said, we have a bunch of good players but no great players.
Guest, Watching this game today made me think of Joe Johnson as a young player on Pheonix. He was an out of control scorer, not a good shooter yet, but look what he has become. His numbers at 21 years old weren!t earth shattering but finding a good situation helped him blossom. Watching Thad today play a very good all round game makes me hope he can become what we need. He hit threes, scored in the lane and drove to the basket and he hasn!t scratched his full potential yet. Now to Marreese, I!m trying to find a player he reminds me of, his game away from the basket is Bosh like and his cuts to the basket are Amare like but suppose he can become a Jamison level player, is that too high an aspiration. Iggy is playing at a high level and we are winning games so they are not false numbers. I think E.S. has to let things play out and not do anything drastic unless an ideal trade comes along.
I think Mareese Speights is almost like an Antonio McDyess type player except Speights does a couple of things differently. He is quicker and can finish around the rim better, but McDyess is better defensively (right now until Speights develops) and probably has a slightly better jumper.
But you are definetly right, E.S. has to wait and see what we have in our young players before making a big time trade. Personally the way Iguodala is playing right now, he can carry us to at least the playoffs like he did last year. Now with Thad, Lou, Speights, Brand the opponent wont be able to shut down our half court offense just by stopping Iggy. I think if he maintains the level of play in which he has played the last 2 to 3 weeks, the contract will be worth it. We HAVE to incorporate Brand into the mix though.
Guest, Mcdyess is a very good comparison ,down the offensive end, now only if he could become close to him as a defensive player. I!m feeling really good right now because maybe that, fool!s gold, as it was called from last year could have been a lot better with a better coach at the helm. In the little time Deleo has taken over they seem better organized and in better spots both in roles and positions on the court which tells me last years success may have been stunted a bit by our ex head coach.
Suede,
Dileo has clearly done a better job of motivating the players than Cheeks could have ever done. Anywhere from playing harder on defense, running the ball more, or just playing with more confidence…We are playing much better under Dileo. Cheeks got a TON of credit when we made our run last year. Whether he deserved all that credit has yet to be determined. We will sure find out, but right now, I think we are better off with Dileo.