It’s funny how things happen. About this time last season all the Sixers trade talk started to get extremely heavy. It was right after Billy King was fired and Stefanski came in as the new GM. The Sixers record right before Christmas last year was 11-16 and they were 14-17 at the end of December.
Then all the hoopla in the off-season optimism was high and expectations long. Now, well the Sixers are pretty much in the exact same spot as last season at 12-16 today and I actually think they will be 13-18 at best to end the year. Sure Elton Brand is hurt. Jason Smith has been out all season. But there is still no excuse for this team to be worse than last year. Where is all the individual improvement of the young players? What about those “shooters” we brought in?
So with that let the 2008-2009 Sixers trade talk official begin. This will become a regular thing, especially if the season continues to go down the drain.
Propose your trades in the comments. I will be adding my own in subsequent posts as well. And I will even take some of your trades and mine and propose them to the bloggers of the other teams involved and see how they respond to the trade proposals. That way we get a different perspective than our hometown view.
Here’s the thing, I hold you guys to a high standard as educated and well-versed Sixers fans. That means save the pipe dream trades for bedtime.
- Make sure the money works, use ESPN’s trade machine at the very least
- Bare minimum please use common sense, no Sammy, Willie Green and Reggie Evans for Chris Bosh type nonsense. Really think it through so that it makes sense for both teams.
Also, I’d love to see what you are thinking is both in the short term and/or long term. Why are you moving this player to acquire that player? Is this a deal to get better now? Improve our cap situation to get in position for a specific player? Stuff like that.
Have at it
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I had high hopes for this season, but this team, with Brand is not fun to watch. I really like Andre I., but he doesn’t fit and can get you a decent player in a trade. I’d wait until the end of the season when Ben Gordon could be a sign and trade. Right now Gordon is on a tendered offer about $6 million. I sign and trade for Andre I. would help both teams. The Sixers need that outside shooter/scorer to compliment Brand.
You can’t trade for Gordon now because the money for him and Andre I. does not match, but this summer, you can make it match in a sign and trade. You can replace Andre I. and have a higher draft pick as you lose games this season. Based one what I’ve seen so far this season, I’d also trade Andre Miller to get draft picks or a young point guard in return.
A Dalembert to Minnesota fort M. Miller and Telfair worked out. Gives us a 3point shooter and a backup pg for when we move A. Miller. Not a big fan of either of the players, but gets us closer to where we need to be.
matto – Why would Minnesota do that deal?
Cause McHale seems to like screwing the franchise
No, I don’t see them doing the trade, Dalembert to CHI for Heinrich is more likely – they are undermanned in the frontcourt and overloaded in the backcourt
From Chicago’s viewpoint: I can’t think of one reason, now that Gordon is having a very strong year (and I am usually not a Gordon guy) that they would be willing to trade a legit 20 ppg scorer and 3 point shooter, for more of an all around versatile athletic SF like Iguodala. It especially makes zilch sense to throw Iguodala and Deng together, that is just an odd combination, and would force Deng to relied on for his jumpshooting even more than now, when he already jacks up a zillion jumpshots a game.
Chicago’s biggest needs right now are :
-Moving either Hinrich or Larry Hughes
-Improving their four “good with some promise, but not great” frontcourt rotation of Gooden, Nocioni, Noah and Ty Thomas…for a more legit NBA starting C or PF. And it seems that Noah is their project they like best.
Because I don’t see Chicago having ANY need for a guy like Iguodala…I’m wondering if they are even slightly curious to acquire our very own Dalembert, given their front court woes. I had said in a previous post the only type of team I’d consider moving Dalembert to is one where we could get a replacement big man, and a legit 18-19 ppg scorer/shooter. Well…Chicago has Ben Gordon and Ty Thomas, who while raw, is one hell of a shot blocker and can bring some nice energy.
Obviously that can’t work straight up, and no one has any idea what kind of salary Gordon will command (probably in the $10-11 range)…but if Gordon is sick of Chicago, and they are willing to part (I don’t think they are now), some kind of Dalembert for Gordon swap, involving other minor players perhaps, or a third team, might be something to consider.
Remember…Dalembert’s on paper stats might deceive some teams to where they go, “In the right situation, Dalembert could really blossom, the Sixers have been misusing him.” That’s a card we might be able to play. Just tossing it out there.
And I will say again, I am much more in the keeping Sammy camp then trading him…I think with 29-34 mpg he brings far more to the table than any replacement we’d get for him. But to get a 20 ppg scorer at SG, move Iguodala to the 3, and have Lou + Thad on the bench…something to consider.
I doubt CHI would part with Gordon, especially for the likes of Dalembert. They can read our blogs too and will probably see what a headache he is, before giving up anyone of quality
Couple things…by rule Ben Gordon would have to approve any trade so you have to factor that in. Would he come here?
Second any trade for Gordon MUST include a contract extension otherwise we could get burned at the end of the season.
Continuing on my last post…we get burned ONLY if we wanted to keep him. If it was a cap maneuvering deal than it doesn’t matter. But a cap clearing trade involving Gordon makes NO sense.
There is not going to be a big market for A-Miller, even as the trade deadline approaches. If you look at the landscape of the league, especially contending or top 10 teams, most already have legit PGs, or are only looking for expiring deals. And there are more attractive expiring deals than A-Millers (Stephon Marbury, Antoine Walker, Raef LaFrentz, Wally Sczerbiak, Jermaine O’Neal, etc).
This means our pieces to move will be: Iguodala, Dalembert, Lou Williams, Reggie Evans. Brand is here to stay, and IMO, Thad and Speights should be 100% totally off limit.
Other players to look at (not recommending specific trades, just throwing some names out there that teams seem open to moving):
John Salmons: It was reported Sacramento had conversations about sending him to Toronto…for who it is unknown. It would be odd, out of left field, and certainly interesting for our team to even think about requiring him…but Salmons game has really rounded into form the last two years, and his shooting has massively improved to be able to hit the 3 ball regularly, and score at a nice clip. His contract is wonderful for the next two years, and he is one hell of a defender, and brings a nice versatile skill set to the table. Sincerely doubt this would ever happen, and I don’t think he’d really fit it all…but I’m just chucking ideas out.
Brad Miller: Probably hitting that “dont want to touch him, he’s getting over the hill” stage. But he is a great vet, 14-15 pts, 9-10 boards, 4-5 asts when healthy type of guy. By all accounts a great locker room presence and a great attitude.
*****David Lee/NYC deals: I am in love with this guy. I think this guy is a potential 15, 13 and 2 blocks if he starts. I cannot say enough about his hustle, energy, rebounding, old school type PF. IMHO, Stefanski would be insane not to at least look into some sort of sign and trade deal with Dalembert and Lee. I believe that D-Bear’s deal comes off the books by 2010, making it feasible for NY…plus Dalembert would probably be excellent in D’Antoni’s system. NY hasn’t signed Lee to an extension, to he is still on his rookie scale contract…signing Lee then trading for D-Bere straight up possibly. I’m sure David Lee would ask about $10+ million a year.
For the “now” salaries, I wonder if NYC would be open for Quentin Richardson ($8-ish) + David Lee ($3.5 I think) for Dalembert ($11) and a future 1st round pick, or Jason Smith, or Willie or Reggie Evan’s contracts, which all come off the books before 2010 as well. Q would give us much needed shooting, and is a good rebounding guard. Normally this would never fly given talent descrepensy, but NY really seems to be looking to shed contracts to put themselves far under the cap for the 2010 sweepsteaks. I’d very much throw Lou Williams in a potential NY deal for a David Lee type talent in a heartbeat as well. Or taking bad a crappy NY contract. Quentin Richardson + David Lee would solve so many f-cking problems for us it’s not even funny.
Ramon Sessions: I’ve gone on before about him, but I see him as a legit NBA starter. Can run a half court offense, shows poise, great combo guard style of being able to score and get others involved. Can run the break, can shoot 3’s. He impressed the hell out of me at Nevada, impressed the hell out of me at the end of the 07-08 season, has impressed the hell out of me this year.
Stephen Jackson: Just resigned to a 3 year, $27 million deal, 9 million per. Toughness, defense, leadership, 3 point shooting, rebounding, assists. Very very very streaky, but certainly brings some nice swagger to the table, and has been Golden State’s Golden Boy, whose relationship looks like it is souring. Plus they have 80 swingmen (Jackson, Monte Ellis, Crawford, Maggette, Azuibuke, Bellinelli, Morrow).
Azuibuke/Morrow/Bellinili: All crunched for minutes, all nice talents, all can hit the 3. I’d want any of them in the order listed. Azuibuke especially would be nice for our team…can play defense, is tough, and is an incredibly efficient scorer that is a great fit in any 7 man rotation.
Mike Miller: He’s having a VERY strange year this year, after two great seasons with the Grizzlies. Right now he’s either being totally misused, or just isn’t playing up to his capabilities, or is not in the right mix of players. But at best, we’re talking about a 6′8 SG that can nail 3’s from anywhere, has become an excellent passer, is a good rebounding guard, and seems to be a great chemistry guy on offense. Also a great midrange game, and a creative scorer with weird angles and the like.
Dalembert’s contract comes off the books in the summer of 2011 so that is a complete no go with any team looking to go after one of the stars in 2010.
Hmm…check this three way deal out:
Sixers get – David Lee, Quentin Richardson
NYC gets - Mike Miller, Craig Smith
Minnesota gets: Samuel Dalembert, Jason Smith (or substitute Jason Smith for a draft pick, or other 1 year guys like Donyell, etc).
Why this works:
-NY isn’t infatuated with David Lee…is losing size, but gets a solid big in return with Craig Smith. Big upgrade from Q to Mike Miller. Most importantly, both contracts are only 2 years and will be off books by 2010. And with Mobley retiring, M Miller in particular is a huge boost for D’Antoni’s system.
-Minny: They need a defensive center like Dalembert to move Al Jefferson to PF. Those two might compliment each other well. Clears up the Ryan Gomes/Craig Smith undersized big logjam…and Gomes starts at SF, bringing David Love off bench to get 25 mpg.
-Us: David Lee at C would be a HUGE upgrade from Dalembert. Much better rebounder, understands the game, knows fundamentals, and knows his place and what his job is. Q would bring a 6′6 athlete that can slash, rebound, and most importantly, sit outside the arc and bomb 3’s all day.
This is a bit lopsided for certain teams…but between Lee, Q, Harrington, Foye, M Miller, C Smith, McCants, Cardinal’s contract, Dalembert, Willie Green, Lou Williams, Jason Smith and draft picks…I think some kind of 3 way with these three teams could actually work to everyone’s benefit. A nice frame to start with at least.
(and many of the above scenarios between us, Minny and NY all work with Trade Machine!)
Dave T – Ramon Session is not at all a three point shooter in that he doesn’t attempt them and he isn’t good at it when he does. I think you are overly hype about him honestly.
Stephen Jackson is another guy that isn’t a good three point shooter in fact he is below average and jacks them up like he is a 40% shooter from deep. Overall he is a low percentage shooter that will only make this team worse offensively.
I think he is a solid defender most of the time and very good when he wants to be. I think for a 6-8 guy has been a marginal rebounder at best and decent passer.
Dannie: I cannot lie, I definitely have the Larry Brown gene where I become infatuated with certain guys haha.
What do you think of the above 3 way trade scenario? Minny is one of the few teams really not in the market for ‘10, they might give a long look at a Dalembert deal to shore up the front line.
Dave T – I have two problems…
I want no part of Q-tip. And if Minnesota is involved the only player I want is Mike Miller. He is the exact shooter this team needs. He is a all-around shooter. He shoots a solid percentage from the field which a lot of three point specialist don’t and is a very good shooter from three. Bonus: HE DOESN’T TURN THE BALL OVER
Milwaukee gets: Iguodala, Dalembert, Evans
Sixers get: Bogut, Jefferson, Elson, Sessions
Trade machine
Alright I think this works for both teams. It gives Milwaukee a more tough defensive front court something they have been lacking for a while along with a versatile SF to pair with Redd.
It gives PHL a shooter/scorer who is still only 28 and a young PG.
What do you guys think?
Ryan F – I just made your link shorter and added the actual trade details.
Any trade involving Iguodala and Milwaukee must include Michael Redd AND not Richard Jefferson. The two Arizona guys are essentially the same player and I’d much rather have the younger Iguodala. By the way Jefferson isn’t a “shooter.”
Why would Milwaukee swap Bogut and Dalembert? They gave him that huge contract which indicates a strong commitment at least for a couple years. And this isn’t a deal that would be a “can’t refuse” proposal for them.
Besides Andre Miller I don’t see any of the other players that the Sixers would be willing to trade bringing much in return let alone getting any interest from other teams. Obviously, this team needs shooters in the same why the Eagles need a fullback. IMO, our untouchables are Brand, Young, Speights, Williams. Iggy won’t get much interest because of the contract, Green & Sammy are overpaid role players, and the rest of the roster offers little value. I’d like to a rotation that included Speights with Williams and perhaps Rush or Marshall. I don’t get to see the Sixers often and am wondering if Speights has the low post skills or potential to help free up a shooter more often.
Ryan F – taking a look at that trade it takes about 42 ppg from Minnesota and gives them back 22. I doubt they’d go for that.
Agreed, I don’t think it would be a “can’t refuse” but I definitely think they would consider it. Iguodala is a few years younger but I still think that Jefferson is a better player with a better jump shot, I like Sessions and Bogut and think that the Bucks may be interested in sacrificing a little offense for defense.
Ryan F - Still don’t understand why you opt for Jefferson and not Redd? If we want a scorer and a real shooter doesn’t Redd fit the bill better than Jefferson?
The entire deal is a lateral move in my opinion. I really don’t see how the Sixers are much better after that deal as a whole. Jefferson and Bogut aren’t winning together now with the Bucks and a legit shooter in Redd, why does that change if they are in Philly? Aren’t we essentially the exact same team that is at best incrementally better.
Also, how does Bogut with the running style of play that we know the GM wants to play?
And I don’t know a whole lot about Bogut but looking at the numbers he hasn’t produced significantly better than Sam in any one area over the course of their careers. And we would lose something defensively.
Dannie: You’re absolutely right about Q…shows you what NBA stereotypes can do for a guy over the years. Those two years in Phoenix they let him launch up so many threes I had it in my head he was around 40%, and not lower. Good call with him being more around the 33-35% mark.
With David Lee…haven’t checked various sites out with his height, but I’m pretty sure he’s a legit 6′10. And honestly, betweena 6′11 Dalembert and a 6′10 David Lee, I’d far rather have Lee’s rugged rebounding/defense/energy/ability to score off more than putbacks, than what Dalembert’s inconsistency. I REALLY think David Lee and Brand would make an amazing combination, especially with the athletic 6′10 Speights and heady Ratliff filling out the rotation.
Ryan F: I agree with Dannie completely…that trade is extremely lopsided for the Sixers, and not the Bucks. Iguodala vs. R Jefferson are extremely similar players…I’d say Iguodala is a little bit more versatile and athletic, both are equally so called “defenders” although time and time we see otherwise with both. R Jeff’s 3 point shot has improved though, I’ll give him that…but many of his stats were inflated playing with Kidd. But no reason for either team to be desperate for the other.
Dannie is 100% right with Bogut…they just paid the man, why would they even think to move him this quickly? (although he has underperformed, but he’s still been a solid presence inside).
Now if we could land Michael Redd, there is probably not a more ideal player in the NBA for our team right now. Ive always thought the best SG’s to swap into our starting spot given the make up of our team would be, in this order:
-Michael Redd
-Jason Richardson
-Kevin Martin
-Mike Miller
-Ben Gordon
With the Bucks having that kind of replication at SF and C though, I can’t possibly see anything being done. Obviously J-Rich is in Phoenix for the long term…no way Sacramento lets go of K-Martin…which leaves us down to Mike Miller and Ben Gordon for the two best candidates that fit the description of that shooter/scorer we need.
I still think standing pat and fixing how this team plays, and the structure of our offense, and Brand bringing his A game is the better way to go for now. But I’d be open to all options.
How about Dalembert, W.Green and Thad Young for M.Miller, Brewer and Madsen. You’re giving up a good young player in Thad but getting back a very good shooter/scorer in M.Miller.
Dave T – Unless David Lee grew I am pretty sure he is ONLY 6-9 WITH shoes on and has never really been considered an NBA center. He is average size for a PF though.
He is playing for D’Anonti now so going with a smaller Center is ok. Not sure how that works out on our team playing next to an undersized power forward especially defensively.
With that said I haven’t had the opportunity to watch him play all that much. Maybe he plays taller than he is but I see he isn’t a shot blocker at all.
I think Bogut’s offense has been hurt a lot by the Jefferson trade. He simply gets less touches now. He is actually shooting better from the field and rebounding more in 3 less minutes per game.
Dannie, when does Iggy lose the B.Y.C. condition, I don!t think he can be moved before that because it takes a 3 team trade.
How about Sammy, Reggie & Willie for MMiller & Jason Collins(last year of 6m contract) & Craig Smith. Basically, a shooter for a Center. Works contractually and we get less years on each contract. Fresh start for Sammy. My big fear is MMiller fits in with EBrand in that his teams don’t win. I’m concerned about that. Minny has Sammy, Jefferson & Love rotating somewhat up front being pushed by Reggie. Changes chemistry on Minny which they seem to need. We get our shooter and some points off the bench from Smith.
How’s that sound?
I am not a big McCants fan but he sure can shoot. Would you guys do this; A.Miller for J.Collins [6.2 exp.] ,R.McCants and the 2nd of their 4 #1 picks. If we draft either a p.g. [Collison,Lawson] or a shooter [Budinger] would that be enough for A.Miller -?
In reality, I don’t see Sammy moving. Since, management wants a running team, Sammy seems to fit what they want. He’d have to be replaced with someone who enhances the running game on the defensive side(Rebound and Block shots).
I’d consider that from the sixers perspective. If I’m minny, I want to extend AMiller and have a AMiller/Foye backcourt. Not sure if I’d want him for just this year. that would hinder the development of Foye at the point.
Suede - If I understand the rules correctly Iguodala’s remains a base year player for six months, or until June 30, whichever comes later.
The Iguodala’s BYC number would be 50% of his current yearly rate or $5,650,000.
In terms of a straight up trade involving Iguodala the Sixers could take back $7,162,500 (125% plus $100K).
Lateral moves I would look into strictly because of positional needs are Jason Smith for Dq. Cook; Thad for Bayless or Fernandez and Rodriguez;
Dannie, Ibelieve unless the team receiving Iggy is under the cap than a 3rd team would have to even out the remaining salary . It is a bit confusing on salarycapfaq, you need to be a lawyer.
My last trade for the night; Thad to Wash. for N.Young and D.McGuire; the issue here is would Wash. do it. Dannie, I want to wish you and your family a very, merry christmas and the same to Pete and all the other guys on here. Merry Christmas everyone !!!
Suede – In this case yes, but not all. It depends on a few things. Whether the trade partner is under the cap or not or had a traded player exception. And the previous year salary and the new contract’s first year salary.
If a guy made $8M in the last year of his deal then signed for say $10M in the first year of his new deal the salary that would be used in a trade is $8M (50% of the new salary first year or the previous year’s salary which ever is greater). Basically since the guy didn’t get a huge raise his previous years salary is big enough to work in many deals. Make sense?
Obviously in the case of Iguodala he only made like $2.8M last season and his new contract is $11.3 so the greater number is 50% of the $11.3M or $5,650,000.
The reason a third team usually needs to be involved is because the primary trade partners are both over the cap. So for the Sixers we would be sending out Iguodala’s full salary of $11.3M to the other team and only able to take back $7,162,500 ($5,650,000 *125% + $100,000).
So say we wanted to trade Iguodala for a player that only makes $7M which fits with how much money the Sixers could take back, the deal still wouldn’t even work because the other team would have to take back $11.3M (Iguodala’s full salary) but by rule are only allowed to take back $8,850,000. Make sense?
Two exceptions:
That is how I understand it. I could be wrong of course as I am not an expert but those are the rules I will be working under when proposing trades.
Very complicated stuff.
Dannie- The reason everybody thinks Q Rich is a good 3 point shooter, is that he won the 3 point contest a long time ago. From then on, his shooting % has gone downhill.
Personally, I don’t think we should trade Iguodala. Getting one shooter in return for him is not enough to make us a good team. We would still have a bunch a crap shooters that like to run. I don’t think we can trade our best scorer (maybe) just for a shooter and a big man.
Dannie, thanks for the explanation. Guest, a lot of people will disagree with this next statement because of the money they make but I think Iggy is a better player than Thad. Iggy in a trade gets you more return because of what he makes but Thad has to keep improving and show he can at least be a 19,6, and 5 guy like Iggy has shown. I would like to keep both and let Thad grow slowly into a bigger role but that may not be possible. Dannie, over the next week I would love to see your list of keepable assets from top to bottom.
Suede – I don’t think I can write a post specifically about “keepable assets” because I really don’t think anyone on this team is untouchable. People are naming guys just to name guys. But in reality untouchable players are LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul type players. And we don’t have thought caliber of player in his prime.
BUT, I do have an idea for a post that will relate to keepable assets.
I really don’t think trading Thad or Iggy for a shooter is going to accomplish anything. I think the only way we are going to get drastically better by trading for a shooter, is if its with Miller, Sammy, or Willie. I think we have to keep our best three players for the future, intact and feeling comfortable playing along side each other. Looking at ESPN Trade Center, I cannot think of a great deal to make us a lot better. 2 players I love are John Salmons and Ramod Sessions. I really don’t think they are that much better than A. Miller though.
If the Sixers make a move, I don’t know what it’s going to be, but hopefully it will be a good one. You guys have some pretty good ideas though.
good call on Q-tip, shows how misinformed you can be from reading too much into one contest.
suede: your idea bout thad for nick young is intriguing. with iguodala you would have two slashers with ups, one who can shoot and the other that can pass. who knows? nick young at 2 guard? thad isnt a proven commodity yet; i agree with you, he may not be what we hype up to be. but what he’s shown so far is so solid and rare that it leaves you very vulnerable to the OMG-i-cant believe-u-did-that-trade kinda syndrome a la Brandon Roy. i dunno any GM that wants to gamble like that.
i don’t think we can trade iggy. no one will take on his monster contract and dash out near equal talent at the same time. our best call WAS ben gordon bcos chicago wont want to lose him for nothing. after this season he’s having especially gel-ing with so-called future of franchise D.Rose, they might just re-sign him.
let it be known that the trade still does not make us better, it just heads us in a new direction of rebuilding a more traditional, less Sixers kinda team . u know, with Brand! also it creates room for thad.
Dannie: with that said do you think chicago will give him the paper he’s asking for? how do you think he goes ; re-sign, sign and Trade or free agent?
guest: right on. with our group we need to turn our garbage into gold somehow. we cant afford dealing the small talent we have so far. i guess you gotta wait for something to happen first.
by the way, Sammy once gone will be SERIOUSLY MISSED. all Sammy haters out there be warned. the way the Sixers play defense, with all the switching, is soo dependent on an athletic weak side shot blocker like Sammy that once gone, they would look real bad on defense. Speights and Ratliff can’t fill that. but then again, there’s always a first time to start learning solid man on man D! right?!
I have a 2 part scenerio,which I feel makes sense for all the parties involved. I think Gol. St. really wants to try the Crawford/ Ellis backcourt and with Ellis almost ready to come back we send Thad and Willie to G.St. for Azuibuke and Bellinelli. This relieves their backcourt logjam and gives them a 3 that doesn!t make much till they get rid of Jackson or Maggette. Then we turn to Chicago, a team that is notorios for not ever going over the cap. The Rose/Gordon backcourt may be the best in the league right now but Rose is gonna want to be paid[12 to 15 mill.?] next year and the Bulls have to clear cap space to do it. Gooden gives them about 7 mill. off ,but that is not enough. I propose we send A.Miller to the Bulls for Nucioni and Sefalosa. We get a young p.g. in the draft [Collison] and our next year depth chart would be L.Will./Collison; Azuibuke/Bellinelli; Iggy/Nucioni; Elton/Marreese; Sam/J.Smith.
The above post; Gordon not Rose wants 12 to 15 mill.. Sorry !!
Suede, Merry CHristmas! Why are you looking to trade our future(THAD)? If there’s anyone on the team I don’t want to trade it’s him. Too much upside. He’s just one year in. He would not be my choice as a player to send out of here for a shooter. If he and Iggy remain I’m sure his game will develop to compliment Iggy over time. Although in a shooting slump, he obviously worked on that aspect of his game over the offseason. You do not want him to go elsewhere and develop into a star.
S.F.W., I do not want to trade Thad but you have to give to get. He is our most tradeable asset and if it is he or Marreese I would rather it be him because of Iggy being here. Thad or Azubuike, upside wise, is it that lopsided.
Yes it is. Please put your creative energies elsewhere. Thad is our one close to untradeable commodity.
Merry Christmas, SFW, From DMW. We have a team [passive] that needs a shot of attitude and a guy like Nucioni, I believe would be perfect. Any trade where I include Thad I would replace him with Iggy, in a heartbeat but contractually that can!t be done. The simplist overall solution for THIS team is to trade Iggy for a 2guard that can defend and score but because of Iggy!s contract the options are few and far between.
If we could move Iggy to Sacramento, a perfect fit by the way, for Salmons and D. Greene I would drive him to the airport myself, but a 3rd team would have to get involved I believe.
I don’t want to trade Iggy or Thad. Both have too much influence on what we are trying to do as a team. I think as soon as we trade Iggy we go from a great fastbreak team, to a slightly above average one. Think about all the reasons we said back when we were trying to resign him. Are we going to give up all of those things just because we are struggling. I really don’t think he alone is the problem, and I don’t think trading him gets us better.
Trading Thad, MIGHT make us better right now, but who knows how good Thad will become for the future. We just locked up Iggy, Lou, and Elton this offseason, so we have to keep those 3, plus Thad, apart of our team.
If we are going to make a trade right now, IT HAS TO BE WITH PLAYERS THAT WONT BE A BIG PART OF OUR TEAM FOR THE FUTURE!
Now what player would that be? Hmmmmm. I say Miller. He is getting older, slower, and not to mention he is going to want his money. I don’t think if we hold on to him, that we will want to resign him, so lets get him out now. Lou has proven he can score and play well so why can’t he do that as a starter?
I actually don’t think we need to replace Miller’s numbers because I think Lou can do that with significant minutes. So what if we trade Miller for a spot up shooter that WILL play significant minutes. (unlike Rush and Marshall) We can even include one of those 2 in the deal to satisfy the other team.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
okay, i’m not going to propose a trade but rather talk about assets. on our part, i don’t see us getting rid of dalembert. he’s too highly paid with too many years left on his contract. as for iguodala, his salary situation makes him almost impossible to trade. also, iguodala is playing great ball right now (at his natural position).
our most desirable assets to other teams are andre miller (though Dave T is right, the market for PGs with big expiring contracts isn’t great this season), Thad, and Speights. if we make a trade, one of those guys will be the deciding factor.
in terms of who doesn’t fit on our roster, it pains me greatly to say that i think it’s thad. he’s a better 4 than a 3, but we have players at each of those positions that are at this point much better than him. i think a combination of Thad and Andre might be enough to get something big in return.
of course, if we assume that Miller is going, we need a PG for the future. IMO the best young PG out there that might be available is Sessions, but i’m not sure he right for our system (not a good shooter, doesn’t play a very uptempo game). however, this year’s draft will be very PG heavy at the top with guys like Ricky Rubio, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, and Jrue Holliday. we already have 2 first-rounders (our own and Utah’s, which is top-22 protected), so packaging them to move up or acquiring another pick through a trade could be a viable option.
our other main hole is at shooting guard (this is assuming, which I believe, that Andre Iguodala is a SF for the forseeable future). unfortunately, the best option there already got snatched up by the Suns (Jason Richardson). the only other elite scoring 2-guards that might be available are Vince Carter and Michael Redd. i suppose you could make a case for Ben Gordon in the offseason, or that Jamaal Crawford or JR Smith might be available. honestly, though, I’m not crazy about the idea of any of those guys as Sixers.
what i’m getting at is that, overall, there isn’t a lot out there right now that makes the Sixers immediately better. I, like big Ed, will never preach patience, but i’m not sure there are any quick-fixes to be had. the one wild-card in this is Portland, which is overstocked at the 1, 2, and 3 with 8 potential starters. they will be looking to deal a lot to get the right pieces around Roy and Oden (and to a lesser degree Aldridge). that means that Blake, Rodriguez, Bayless, Fernandez, Batum, Outlaw, and Webster could all be available, and the one thing all of those guys have in common is the ability to shoot the ball.
ok, i lied. before i go i’ll through out a proposal: andre miller for steve blake and travis outlaw. for the sixers, they get a capable starting point guard and two shooters without making a long-term financial commitment (both players only have 1 year left after this season). for the blazers, they get a top-tier PG to lead their play-off push this year, and combined with their other expiring contracts takes a whopping 46 million off of the books for next year (remember, this year they are paying LaFrentz and Steve Francis a combined 30 mil). considering that in 2 years they need to extend Aldridge, Roy, and Rodriguez, and the year after that Oden, Bayless, Fernandez, and Batum, they are going to need that money. in fact, they would probably throw in a first rounder pick to get that done. they currently have 6 former draft picks stashed away overseas in development, so they have to start making moves just to free up roster spots. what do you guys think about all this?
What about Sammy for Branden Wright,bellini and STephen Jackson. I tried it on the trade machine and it worked. I don’t really want Jackson but in order to make the trade work he would have to be involved.
GS is really banged up right now and could use a big athletic body to play with beidrens.
I find it very difficult to come up with trade scenarios for this team. The obvious targets to trade are Andre and Sammy. If management wants a running team then Sammy is the type of center needed to generate the fast break. Ideally, if you trade Sammy you would want a role playing/lesser paid center(similar in style) plus a shooter for him. Regarding Andre, we could use a young developing point guard plus players to equal out the salary. Do we already have that player in Lou Williams? Can we find that out in his current role? Can Andre be traded for the scorer/shooter at the 2 guard position, Lou move to the starting point and Thad continue off the bench? I don’t have a problem with that because there are plenty of minutes for Thad and it worked when TPrince was developing in Detroit. If Lou fails at the point, we can entertain other options(trade/draft) to find a point. I think it’s time to move Andre and give Lou his shot. Just don’t know who I’d want in return.
SFW - That was part of the reason for this exercise. So people can see it’s not as simple as spitting out a few names when trying to make deals that work financially and make sense on the court. That’s why you don’t see me suggesting very many trades.
I can’t even imagine how many failed proposals are made for every one completed trade.
Dannie, the following Iggy deals work salary wise, it is crazy with his B.Y.C. status to get a trade to work with just 2 teams. An example; two players making the exact same salary get added to a trade and it works but take them away and it doesn!t because the percentages of the total trade value changes. Here are Iggy trades to teams that may take him, again I may not agree with these personnel wise but they work : Iggy,Marshall and Green for J.Richardson [Pheonix] : Iggy and Green for Azubuike,M. Williams,S.Jackson and D.Nelson [Gol. St.] : Iggy,Green and Rush for M.Miller and C.Brewer [Minn.] : Iggy,Marshall and Rush for S.Blake, T. Outlaw and Sh. Randolph [Portland] : Iggy and Green for Dunleavy, Jack and McRoberts [Indiana] : Iggy,Marshall and Green for Josh Howard and A. Wright [Dallas] : Iggy, A.Miller andIvey for Kirelenko, Korver and Almond [Utah] : Iggy and A. Miller for L.Odom, J.Farmar and C.Mihm [Lakers] : For people that want to move Iggy, as you can see it isn!t easy. Memphis is under the cap so they can take back more salary, would an Iggy for M.Conley trade work ?
Dannie, Thanks for the frustrating opportunity. The conviction that this is a running team makes this personel decision a difficult one. It kind of limits the moves they can make. For example. Initially, I thought a Sammy for Brad Miller(1 yr less on contract) made sense for both teams. Brad could help greatly in our half court offense But if we are determined to be a running team, don’t think Brad helps generate the break. So, I guess that trade doesn’t work. Ed is really going to earn his paycheck to make this sixers team a winner. The key could be development of Lou, Thad, Maureece & Jason OR the use of those players to acquire that critical piece. Can’t follow that old Philly pattern of trading away another Ferguson Jenkins. Fortunately the Phillies didn’t follow that on their way to the championship.
S.F.W., If we are going to stay with the running, trapping philosophy than I personally would see if Brand has any takers out there. Can a team win when running with defense as the key, rather than offense [Pheonix ?], it hasn!t been done but E.S. sure seems to want to try it. We do have the majority of the pieces in place but A.Miller and Elton seem like square pegs in a round hole. Go all out or become a conventional first team with a running second unit [my preference]. Trade A.Miller and Elton for guys like Ty. Thomas, A.Randolph and K.Lowry if this is how they want to play because right now we are sorta stuck in the middle.
Teams that win play BOTH styles effectively, depending on opponent and the individual game (and its evolving conditions). If teams can perform well only by running or only by setting up/controlling tempo, they’re incomplete competitors and surefire also-rans. Perfect balance is but an ideal, but adaptabilty is a requisite.
To pigeonhole a team with a “running” brand as Stefanski has done (for marketing reasons, or for a lack of confidence in whole basketball talent, or expediency, or whatever) and to make personnel decisions according to assumptions of maximizing said brand is a dead end street imo.
Quality players fit any style of play you can imagine. The Sixers need to accumulate more quality basketball players - a simple and obvious
statement, yet a challenging task. The present roster is littered with half-talents, rendering high-quality play elusive, and certainly unsustainable for the long run.
Jumpin, it is sorta weird, the success this Knicks team seems to be playing with under D!Antoni. I wonder if he could have gotten our group to overachieve like the mismash of players he inherited with the Knicks ?
suede Didn’t know Knicks were playing that well. Probably, Coach D could squeeze some overachievement out of this group of Sixers if he had ‘em since camp, but what ultimate good is that if a championship team isn’t being built? I’m not a proponent of run ‘n gun style of play as a basis of success. Offense is pretty, but ugly defense and mean
boarding win in the tight spots.
Suede – Don’t waste your time just trying to make the numbers work on Iguodala trades if the trades don’t make basketball sense for either team. For example Conley for Iguodala makes no sense for Memphis since they have O.J. and Gay solidified at the 2 and 3 position and I think both will, if not already be better than Iguodala.
JJG -
Couldn’t have said it better myself. In fact I have a post coming in a couple days that speaks to this a bit.
Actually, since all the trades the Knicks have come back to earth, but the beginning of the year Randolph, Duhon and Lee seemed to BUY into his way of playing. Jumpin, The Chief was on E.S.P.N. radio the other morning and had some interesting comments. Comparing this Celts team to his he said his team had former allstars coming off the bench [Walton,Pistol and Wedman]. Biggest difference in today!s game he thought was promoting of individual players rather than Celts or Lakers or Sixers. Interesting comment; before the infamous McHale/ Parrish for Joe Barely Cares trade he was contemplating retirement because of the flak he was getting for not being THE SAVOIR of his franchise as a #1 pick .
jjg, nuthin’ but net with comment #58.
I’ve been thinking about Houston’s 22-game win streak last year, and Boston’s 19-gamer this year, and one of the reasons has got to be what you mentioned – teams putting together rosters of incomplete players. Off the top of my head – Kevin Willis, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerele – they were a certain type of late 80’s, 90’s-type of player, and I can’t help but think that players like that are missing from today’s game. I mean, if Jeff Green, Kevin Durant, and Russell Westbrook are so talented, why are the OKC Thunder so meek and pathetic?
Regarding the Sixers, I’m gonna repeat what I said earlier – does Stefanski know what he’s doing? In hindsight, I don’t think he and his team (DiLeo, Witte) really took the time to figure out what happened last year, and with their moves seemed like they had a total disregard for the success it generated. Players should be complete, but it’s better to be really good at one some things and suck at others, instead of being half-assed at everything.
Zack, a lot of similarities between the Green/Durant situation and our Iggy/Thad situation. I personally think Durant is going to blossom at the 3 and Green may be moved for a different piece. And Westbrook, whom I love for the future, is an athlete learning to be an N.B.A. p.g.. Payers coming out early and straight from high school have a lot to do with the “incomplete player ” tag that Jumpin so perfectly brought up.
Zack – Those types of players aren’t missing entirely they are just on the teams that win and are successful. Maybe that is what you meant?
Without much thought…
Dan Majerle similar to James Posey, Bruce Bowen
Kevin Willis similar to Kurt Thomas, P.J. Brown
Kevin Johnson similar to Chris Paul, Deron Williams
Agree, disagree?
I am glad you brought this up I am working on a post right now that I think is related.
jjg: I’d say Stefanski counted on being able to continue the uptempo success of last years team, and that the addition of Brand would make them a more versatile team. Obvoiusly that has not worked up as of yet, and Brand being out for a month, and an interim(?) coah’s rule or more might mean that it might not be until the very end of this season that we have any real idea whether the players or the coach were the real flaw.
Setfanski’s plan is way off course, and we shall see whether he panics and makes a dumb trade, or if he find a way to move Miller to a team that wants cap relief to make a steal the way NJ robbed Carter from Toronto.
Morty – There is another, probably more likely determination as well: the players AND the coach are flawed.
Dannie: Yes, the coach, the GM, the players, everyone could all be wrong.
Personally, I feel like if the core of this team replaced Miller with a decent play maker who could play some D, and stick an open jumper, it could work as is. Of course the bench also needs to be better, but that was always the summer of ’09’s project anyway.
Guys, is it just a talent issue ? Compare the 2001 team position by position with this group, would it surprise you that other than A.I. and Theo, who else is better ? Last years team had less talent but found a way to play and maximize each others role. I keep thinking of how Carney finished strong, how J.Smith had his little contributions [screening,blocks, jumpshots], how Reggie, in spite of his offense was a factor for 28 minutes a night, how a less well rounded Thad gave us as much as he has this year, it seems. It isn!t as much an upgrade in talent but getting the right pieces. How would this team be playing this year if we kept the same group with the only additions being Spieghts and Theo for Booth I wonder. An identity was being formed last year and maybe E.S. should of seen how far that gritty group could have gotten.
Suede – Hold that thought until after the Denver game. I have a post written that I will post immediately after I recap the Denver game that speaks to what you are asking here about last season.
You guys are tripping! I predict the Sixers do nothing because as it stands with Brand out a month, a new coach, Big Ed doesn’t know what we have yet. Remember the Cleveland trade last year; Everybody thought it was a bad trade and they didn’t gel last season. Add Mo Williams a year later and now look at them. We loose Miller next season either way, so in a season that we have committed to make a playoff run do we move Miller? That’s giving up and Ed has too much pride and too much at stake for that.
And what makes everybody think that anybody wants Dummy Bear so bad? We will make a huge mistake moving Thad and we’re stuck with Iggy. So we’ll just have to play the hand.
TT32, I believe it was S.F.W. that mentioned earlier in the year that our 2 leaders are passive personalities [A.Miller,Elton] This team needs a ballsy personality that is not a nice guy,I believe. A cockiness added and one of those passive leaders gone, and Elton isn!t going anywhere. I have been looking all over the league for a trade that gets us that kind of guy and the best I could come up with is the following: A.Miller and a future #1, if necessary to Gol.St. for S.Jackson,Morrow and C.J. Watson. This only works if Gol.St. wants to clear cap space and room in their crowded backcourt. Sessions is mentioned a lot on here but Watson is another undrafted player that seems to be able to hit the three. Morrow is a guy that fits here perfect and Gol. St. put themselves in a bind with the Maggette signing so one of them has to go.With Azubuike [a Nelson favorite] there along with Ellis coming in soon Morrow may be gettable. L.Will. gets the starting p.g. spot because a backcourt of L.Will. and S.Jackson[if he can handle the 2 guard] would give this team a cockiness and well needed swagger, something this team could use I believe.
This team absolutely, positively needs a beast! Someone to go out there and totally loose his mind on the court! I would love that backcourt. Jackson and Lou. On the Boston game broadcast Lou was talking smack to Garnett, and Bob Salami was talking about he needs to be quite. Contrary, that’s exactly what this team needs a swagger.
TT32, Bob seems as boring as our roster.
supposedly the bobcats are looking to dump felton, which makes sense b/c they have augustin sitting on the bench, yet still putting up very good numbers. so check this out:
Sixers get:
Raymond Felton
Nazr Mohammed (Bobcats are desperate to get rid of)
Bobcats get:
Andre Miller (who will be a free agent at the end of the year and seems unwilling to resign)
then I would at least try to make a push for Amare, even though the Sixers probably don’t have the necessary pieces to get him (and you can’t trade Iggy b/c of clause in his contract)
Maybe something along the lines of:
Sixers get:
Amare Stoudemire
Suns get:
Samuel Dalembert (and his ridiculous $11million contract)
Louis Williams
1st round pick (maybe two 1st rounders)
I don’t know why they would do it, but hey, the Lakers got Pau for Kwame
bmac– I think the Bobcats have another suitor for Felton in the Pacers:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3897431
Larry Brown could strike (strikes) again!