Dannie is on his way down to the game, so he asked me put up the discussion post for tonight.
The Sixers battle the Suns tonight, who are coming in from a late game in Detroit last night and will hopefully be a little tired. I believe that Shaq has played very sparingly in back-to-back’s this year, so hopefully that continues.
It would be nice for the Sixers to bounce back from their horrible losses vs. NJN and BOS by beating IND, MIA and PHX. It would also be great for us to a get a couple games over .500 and quit going back and forth.
I expect Andre Miller to have a big game tonight with Steve Nash guarding him, and I’ll be interested to see any Speights/Stoudemire match-ups.
Dannie will we back with a recap once he gets home.
Sixers vs. Suns Game Notes
Wow, that was easily the most boring game I’ve been to all season. I mean the Sixers played their game. They forced turnovers, ran a bit and continue to demonstrate why they are easily the best alley-oop team in the NBA. But being there is was quite the yawner.
The Sixers were in control of this one the entire way, and I gotta admit I absolutely hate being at games like that. I love the suspense of a close game when I am in the building and nothing feels better than your team winning a tight game at the end. Tonight there wasn’t any of that. In fact the Suns seemed to have conceded the game at the 6 and a half minutes left in the fourth quarter. They were down 17 and Porter shut down Nash, Shaq and Amare at that point. Hell Andre Miller and Steve Nash didn’t play the entire 4th quarter. Maybe if the Suns made a run and got it under 10 with 2 or 3 minutes left Porter would have went back with his horses. But the Sixers made sure that didn’t happen.
It was vividly clear to me why Steve Kerr and the Suns are rumored to be in the process of blowing this team up. The Suns play absolutely no defense, are nowhere near as potent offensively and lack overall effort. Steve Nash is good and still looks good, but it’s clear his numbers were seriously inflated in D’Antoni’s system. Amare looked lazy as hell, walking up and down the court, not attacking the boards and clearly only wanting to play defense. Dude played 39 minutes and had 6 boards. Unacceptable. Shaq is Shaq. His size and strength allow him to continue to be effective in spurts. But those spurts are coming few and far between. He is having a great season considering his age and struggles with injuries the past few years. But he can’t carry a team anymore, I question whether he should be one of the big 3 on a team striving for a championship, nor should he be playing heavy minutes in any circumstance. This team is just old, out of sync and the hold over from Mike D’Antoni’s tenure don’t seem as effective or happy to play a different style.
Random Stuff
- Lou continues to flat out stink.
- Thad played very well and had an efficient 25.
- The Sixers won this game again by forcing turnovers (18), dominating the boards (54 total and 22 offensive) and getting and making their free throws (24-28). This was plenty to overcome only shooting 43% from the field.
- 11 free throw attempts for Andre Iguodala. Love it. No reason he shouldn’t be getting to the line at least 7-8 times per game.
Speights looked liked Amare 2.0. He was very active and found open areas for his teammates to find him on offense. His jumper is pure. Kid has a lot of potential. The most on the team in my opinion (yes, more than Thad!). That’s two games in a row he dropped a soft lefty hook in the lane. I was screaming for Dileo to give him some post-up opportunities when Matt Barnes was defending him. I think it’s clear he can make a jumper out to 18 feet. We know he can run the floor, has nice hands and can finish strong. But we haven’t seen enough of him in the post to determine if he has the full arsenal on offense for a power forward. I think he does, but sooner rather than later the Sixers need to determine this kid’s potential. It really could mean the difference between trading Brand or Sammy to acquire another impact player to really get in position as an elite team. We’ll see.
Next Game: Wednesday against the Memphis Grizzlies (will be at that game)
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The last time I went to a Sixers home game against the Suns was this game: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200601310PHI.html
I was scared of how bad the Sixers would be destroyed because that Suns team was amazing in how they played that style to perfection. The game wasn’t close from the get-go. Tonight’s game gives me hope. The Suns have really fallen and I don’t quite understand why they decided to start blowing up that team. They were a couple horrible referee decisions away from the NBA finals.
It comes down to making stops and grabbing the rebounds because there will be plenty of scoring!!
Now the Sixers MUST stay committed to making a decision on how to guard Phoenix– defend the frontcourt or deny the threes!!
Im confident about this one. 2nd night of a back to back for the elders, if the sixers are on the break they should leave this one p by 10 – 15. I am becoming optimistic again, and I feel this is a “should” win game for this team.
Amare doesn!t seem to be a factor at all without the basketball, not a number one guy in my opinion. If Elton gets back to 90 % of what he was prior to the achilles injury I think he can help us win just as much. Tony is better than L.Brown out of timeouts, Larry would get you a basket, Tony gets you a dunk.
Ryan F – I’d like to start by saying I like your contributions to the comments…
…but I’d do the Butler trade if they offered, for a combination of reasons:
1) In the NBA, most of the time, you can tell right away if a certain player combination works, and from what I’ve seen, the Sam/Brand combo DID NOT WORK, so I don’t think it will, and this assumes…
2) …that we’re gonna commit to Brand. And if we are going to commit to Brand, then we better get some players who can make plays when things slow down, both on defense and on offense, which Caron can do. Sam can help somewhat when things slow down on defense, but as Detroit showed, when you gameplan for Sam, it’s easy to take him out of the equation (and get him to rock the useless but amusing ‘frohawk).
3) So we “don’t need another wing”… You’re right, we don’t need another wing – we need BETTER guards/small forwards. No, scratch that – we need TRANSCENDENT guards/small forwards, which we have none of. Caron Butler isn’t at that level, but comes pretty close. The only guys we have that are capable of taking over games are Andre Miller and Lou Williams, but Miller doesn’t have a natural instinct for it, and Lou, 90% of the time, is unwatchable rather than unstoppable when tasked to be “the man”. Iguodala can’t do it alone, and I don’t think I want him to after watching…
4) …his unoriginal and awkward Sam Cassell “ain’t my cojones big” gesture against Boston. It’s very clear to me that Iguodala needs some guidance on how to carry himself better both on and off the court, and Caron Butler can help with that.
5) Losing Sam would sting, but what he provides to the Sixers would be more replaceable than what Caron would bring. Top guards and small forwards are really hard to come by. Average-talent guards are a dime a dozen, but those upper-echelon, “un-overrated” swing men are really hard to find. Think of the past couple of drafts, and the number of Caron Butler-type swingman talent that emerged compared to the Sam-like talent -
Caron Butler-like: Brandon Roy, Kevin Durant, Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis; that’s (5), but if you filter for Butler’s defense and smarts that narrows the list down to Roy and Granger
Sammy-like: David Lee, Turiaf, Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell, Tyrus Thomas, Josh Boone, Paul Millsap, Leon Powe, Carl Landry, Oden, Joakim Noah… Is there something about Sammy that puts him head and shoulders above these guys?
BTW, good call on the point spread so far (3rd quarter). You know, when I watch this team play, and I see them out-athlete-ing the other team, how much more of a SLEDGEHAMMER would our fastbreak game be with Josh Smith? Just thinking out loud, don’t wanna rehash this argument…
suede, just for you: I PREDICT that the Sixers are leading comfortably by the middle of the 4th, so we’ll get to see Robin Lopez against Marreese… The great Lopez/Speights debate shall be settled once and for all!!!
Zack, you had to bring up who I liked [R.Lopez], I!ll admit to being wrong on that, I still think he will be a 10 pt., 8 reb. guy [A.Varijuo type] but Marreese is nothing like what I expected offensively. B.Donovan must not of gotten him the ball much last year. Your boy Weaver is getting steady minutes now, good for him!!! I said it before Zack, I!ll say it again,”We have our J.Smith in Thad, a change of pace 4 that may be better in 2 years “, but we!ll see.
zack-
i think you’re way off base in your analysis. butler’s skillset is a virtual clone of iguodala’s. you could argue that butler’s better, but not significantly. when you consider we already have the redundancy of having thad who brings a similar set of skills to the table, you can see where my qualms are.
meanwhile, we have only two centers on the roster in Sam and Theo. while i think that speights can probably play center, his natural position is the PF, as is true of reggie evans, donyell, and brand. as much as he can sometimes frustrate, Sam is in certain ways the most indispensable player on the Sixers; other than andre miller, he’s the only player that has unique skills on this roster.
Zack – Thanks for the gratuity, I truly do appreciate it. I try. I may not be the most knowledgeable, but I am passionate.
Dannie/Pete – you should put that long running trade post in the popular post section for easier navigation.
Zack again – In no way would I take on Caron b/c IGG is just as good or BETTER, and he would only cut into his time, and IGG is MUCH younger. I would be willing to trade Sam if it was to fill a void and SF is one of the few positions we dont have to worry about. IGG may not be the best player, but he is the one we don’t need “shoring up.” The team needs better pick and roll and dribble penetration defense and thats it. That mostly falls on the PG and PF/C spot. IGG is not th problem, he is a decent 1 v 1 defender, you put him in front of the best players 1v 1 he wont have more of a problem than any other, its the rest of the team.
Caron is a NO GO in my opinion, I wouldn’t take him for any “time” player on our roster straight up.
wud love to hail the sixers’ D and energy gut this game was more bout how confused and bent out Phoenix has become. Back-to Back or not; Sure Nash was unable to get lift on his shots and Shaq was barely able to get off the floor cos of fatigue but this was just diusgraceful. 3 point shots werent falling…Turnovers?? definitely not making the playoffs!
suede: good call on Amare. i couldnt understand how such an offensive beast stays silent. he just stood under the rim and let thad swoop on for offensive rebound after offensive rebound. if nash dumps the ball to shaq, he might as well be on the bench. bad idea bringing those two together. looks good on paper tho.
after Speights’ game, how eager are you to make a trade now? i’d rather wait and see what we’ve got. I think Brand issue is just us freaking out.
Zack: you get Butler…then what? we’ll just have better options offensively. it doesnt mean we will be better. i’d stick with the stud point guard formula, thats simple. no need to get on Iggy; all his potential game winners clanked off rim, but this one somehow found all net on an ISO contested by main man PPierce, you get to beat celtics and end their winning streak on a clinching shot – wouldnt you be excited? he’s young, thats what you get. u probably wouldnt have minded if we had won.
random thoughts: who is the future of the Sixers at PF? is it
A) Speights: fits the bill sizewise w/ post game and good touch from outside
B) Young: assuming he fills out, the mismatches on offensive end makes fastbreak more furious. (and contrary to conventional wisdom fits in well with Iguodala at that position)
C) Brand: the prototype whose health and chemistry with the team is a question mark.
Guys, I can!t think of the last time Sam had a bad game. Should it take you almost 8 years to get it ? NO!!!! But the fact he has gotten it makes him a valuable commodity now. E.S. has his hands full over the summer figuring out the excess pieces he needs to move to get us our stud 2 guard but I don!t think Sam will be one of them, he has won me over.
J.Kay, Marreese seems to need a physical guy next to him [Reggie?] while Sam tends to work well with a perimeter 4 [Thad,Marreese], the key will be can Elton and Sam coexist, I think they can and I still think we could get scary good defensively. Thad at the 3 and 4 off the bench along with Marreese at the 4 and 5 off the bench may help offset the lack of a number 1 guy that Dannie professes to. If we can!t have a championship quality starting five than let!s have the best top eight in the league.
now thats a brave confession!
still has those peeving cross-court pass turnovers trying to ignite the break. today’s feature was unforgettable. heck michael olowokandi could do better!
Dannie, L.Will.!s act is getting old quickly. I wanted him to have the ball at the end of quarters to drive and kick but taking a bad shot all the time isn!t working. I wonder how much they are going to let him play through this. Do you think they may be changing their opinion of him ?
Speights just continues to develop. First he impressed us with his nice jump hook. He then quietly began to knock down jumpshots. And at this point he is asserting himself in the half court offense, and running the floor with the rest of the players.
I agree it was a boring game, but you gotta love this type of game as far as confidence goes. Watching the Sixers blow out the Suns and beating them at their own game just makes me confident going into the next game. I don’t know if the players look at it like that, but for me, they have responded well to those 2 horrible losses.
Just think if we didn’t lose to the Nets and C’s. We’d be on a 7 game win streak going against Memphis and cruising into the All Star break. Im just excited for the Sixers to keep rolling and continue to push for that 6th seed. Hopefully 5th or 6th by the end of the season.
suede: Re: Lou Williams – have you noticed that every time he is on the floor, they leave Miller or Iguodala out there to temper him or at worst Ivy at the 3pt line to bail him out when he dribbles into no man’s land?
guest: CORRECTION – it was not a boring game! it was a TERRIBLE game.
on my last post, to dispose of ambiguity; Lou Williams doesnt play the PG position anymore.
The Sixers’ two youngest players — Speights (11-for-16) and Young (10-for-14) — were a combined 21-for-30.; the rest of the team was 19-for-63.
Young was 2-of-2 from 3-point land — everybody else went 2-of-14.
Bench other than Speights was 6-for-28.
Sixers are 11-4 at home under DiLeo, with all four losses — Indy, Dallas, Jersey, Boston — coming at the end.
Tom,
Great insight. It now makes sense of what I watched tonite. Also, interesting point about the 4 losses at home, I assume that is a sign of immaturity of not being able to close out games?
I get less and less impressed with Lou every game. I think he is thinking too much because he actually believes he has a chance at being the PG of our future, someone on the staff has to tell him to stop trying to be a distributer and just go out there and light it up. The unjust pump fake has got to go, just shoot it if youre going to, dont hesitate, go in rhythm.
sorry for any clerical errors, ive been throwing them back
Dannie: Great call about Iguodala’s free throw count…an excellent point. I cannot stand it when athletic slashers do not have monster free throw attempts. I mean…Iguodala should be doing what Maggette did in Clipperland: getting his butt to the line constantly because of his size, superior athleticism, and excellent slashing ability. The less Iguodala settles for jumpers, the better off our team will always be.
Also agree that Speights is a true monster in the making. I think he should be absolutely untouchable, because IMO he is a 20/10 future all star that WILL be a good defender. I remember how wow-ed I watch in watching him in a lot of SEC games last year…the kid really has a natural sense for how to play in the post. Nice jumper, good back to the basket game, seems willing to learn, and his passing, bball IQ and decision making will come along.
I’m still tickled as hell that he actually fell to us at 16. Speights, Anthony Randolph, Brook Lopez and JJ Hickson are going to all be wonderful players in the NBA in a few years…and I think Speights and Randolph have by far the highest ceilings.
Random note: The other day I caught an interesting game on ESPN classic involving two current Sixer bench players: Texas, with a backcourt of TJ Ford (in cornrows!) and Royal Ivey vs. Missouri, with Quinn Snyder at the healm, and Kareem Rush their star. Barnes decided to put Ivey on K Rush, and no surprise to any of us, Ivey completely locked down Rush and smothered him all game until the very end.
Remember, Rush was one of those undersize SG’s, like Eddie House, Louis Bullock, Joe Forte, Troy Bell, etc, that could just LIGHT people up in college. Was very cool to watch how nicely Ivey locked him up and made him work all game.
What about these major injuries in the NBA? It may impact the NBA trading deadline. They seem to be happening more frequently this year than ever.
S.F.W., that to me is another reason to sign A.Miller, he always gets up after being driven to the floor. We talk about his age, but like J.Moyer his game is based on cunning and he is always there for his team, that has to account for something. I hope I didn!t jinx him.
Dannie, you mentioned Willie and the elbow jumper the other day, well everytime he gets wide open and takes it I have a vision of E.Gordon,Azubuike or A.Parker being there instead of him. A man can dream, can!t he !!
Sorry if some you guys found the game boring. I enjoyed it immensely. Looking to the future, the development of Thad and Sepights is key to the team, and last night they both went off.
The game became “boring” in the 4th quarter. For 3.5 quarters, I was waiting for the Suns to make a big run since scoring is their strength. But I’m glad it didn’t happen.
Nash missed a lot of shots and layups he would normally make. Fatigue was certainly a factor after he did us a favor by beating the Pistons last Sunday with his 21 assists.
My prediction was spot on in terms of what the Sixers game plan was in terms of defending the Suns. We did a great job of chasing the Suns off the perimeter. The Sixers should be doing that EVERY game!!
Who would have thought thou that Thaddeus Young would play very well against Amare and come out of the game alive. He simply outplayed Amare on both ends of the floor. Young appeared to be “back” after a brief sophomore slump. He is at his best when he takes it to the basket FIRST, hustles for every ball, and THEN get into a rhythm with the jump shot. Next time we play the Suns in Phoenix, he will outplay Amare once more.
I wonder if the Sixers can repeat that performance in Phoenix? That would be the second of a back-to-back game on a West Coast Trip (3/18/09). Last year, we beat the Suns in Phoenix on a second of a back-to-back after losing to the Warriors in Oakland. The Suns would be a bit fresher that day. The Suns starters missed a lot of shots yesterday that they would normally make. But anyway, give the Sixers credit and we shall see again! But it makes that looming West Coast Trip less intimidating.
GO SIXERS!! BEAT THE GRIZZLIES AND GO STREAKING!!
The four close home losses under DiLeo, while they show the Sixers can’t always finish the job, could’ve been back-breakers that bring a team down — especially the back-to-back Jersey and Boston games. But the Sixers rebounded to win three in a row, which impresses me in the way the players and coaching staff were able to put it behind them.
I love it, I have said it before and I will say it once again. The only untouchables on the sixers roster are Thad Young and Speights!
let the Speights era begin, let’s see if he is good enough to make a healthy Brand expendable.
Now what happens with Andre Miller is the million dollar question.
I’m a huge Lou fan, but I have to agree that he has really struggled this year. I find it ironic, that the presense of this years #16 pick (who was not expected to get much PT) is all that is really keeping Lou valuable. Lou really has great chemistry with Spieghts, and if he can ever get his head out of his a$$, they will be a great pick and roll combo for the next 10 years.
Lou is definitely in a slump. He has been in that slump since the Knicks game (1/25/09), when Nate Robinson was talking trash to him. He has to be the Lou that takes it to the hoop and is a blur on the offensive end. Then he can work his way to the jumpers. And for Lou, a heat check is one shot, not taking many heat checks in a game. However, if he works on that step-back jump shot with perfection, he can really hit some game winners for us in the future. It is Jordanesque. I know he reads a Michael Jordan book in his spare time according to a postgame interview he had with Dei Lynam.
What’s great about these Sixers is their future. With youngsters like Iggy, Sp8s, Thad, Lou, and perhaps Jason Smith the team will have a solid nuclues for years to come. Add in a healthy (if possible) Elton Brand, a quality point gaurd, and a few shooters and there is no reason why the Sixers can’t become and remain near the top in the East for the next 5 years. The thing with Thad, Speights, Lou, and others is they will fail many more times when the will shine brightly. We as fans need to be patient as they develop. Its been a long time since Sixer basketball was exciting so appreciate it as its growing before us and simply enjoy the ride.
I wouldn’t get too excited about the performances of our rookies against a team that is self destructing, and that is one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. Phoenix, Houston and Toronto definitely seem to have the three worst locker room vibes and low morale in the league. Came at a perfect time for us, when we really needed a nice thumping of a formerly very good team to get our confidence soaring. Not trying to take anything away from Thad and Mareese…GREAT games by both, but doing that against the Suns, Raptors, Warriors and Wizards is a different story than versus other teams.
Caron Butler: Zack, I’m with Ryan F, I think you are severely overrating Butler’s game. Don’t get me wrong, he is a very good player, but he’s certainly nothing amazing that will all of the sudden catapult a team to new heights and grandeur. Also remember that many of his stats, along with Jamison’s, are a bit padded because of how frequently Arenas is injured and how much the other two stars need to pick up scoring slack.
I’m in DC, and have gotten a chance to watch him many times…Mr. Tough Juice is a guy that hustles, is great taking guys off the dribble, can create his own shot, has improved with finishing around the rim, and hugely improved his shot from his UConn/Heat days to where he can be an effective three point shooter. But no way he’s on the same level as Brandon Roy (really, Roy is on another stratosphere…as is more of a PG/SG than a swingman anyway), Danny Granger or Kevin Durant. I’d say Caron Butler is more along the lines of a Josh Howard…but with better defense, toughness and leadership skills.
Amare Stoudemire: I know I’ve been babbling a lot since the Trade Deadline post about how huge of a mistake it would be for us to pursue him, and how overrated he is as an overall player. It’s foolish to ever judge a player for one game, and much of the fault is the horrible state of the Suns locker room right now…but I’m hoping his total non performance against us this game won me a few converts? I’d keep our whole starting unit in an eye’s blink rather than trading for Amare.
Random: In looking around the league, I honestly think the ideal PG for our team would be Jose Calderon. He really knows how to run in the open court, is completely selfless and is a pass first guy, can hit threes, is a savvy, heady player, and plays surprisingly stingy defense (when he wants to). If it wasn’t for injuries, he’d probably be the #6 PG in the league IMO (C Paul, Deron, T Parker, Billups, Nash, Baron (if healthy), Calderon). Huge shame we have no shot at landing him, he’d really fit into our system nicely.
Bski: You been watching our man Ramon Sessions lately?
Dave, did you like this trade I posted. works on trade machine.
Jefferson & Sessions for Thad & AMill.
FYI: The Sixers are 13-2 this season when Speights plays 20-plus minutes. His numbers are markedly different without Brand (10.9 points, 4.4 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 19.7 minutes and shooting 55.2 percent from the floor in 20 games) than with Brand (6.1 points, 3.4 rebounds, .5 blocks, 12.4 minutes and 50.4 percent shooting in 27 games).
Also, DiLeo told Iguodala to enjoy the all-star break because it’s the last one he’ll be having for a while (meaning DiLeo expects Iguodala to become an all-star next season).
I’m still thinking you don’t deal away Thad unless it’s part of a package to land a superstar. I’m not sure where Thad will end up on the Hakim Warrick->TMac continuum, but at 20 there’s no way I let him go for guys who are only good.
Tom Moore– those are remarkable stats. I wonder if Amare is STAT, what would Speights be? Interestingly enough, he was a participant in one of Amare’s summer camps.
I wonder though, how did you become an insider for the Sixers? You are probably living the dream job.
I’m the Sixers beat writer for Calkins Newspapers (Bucks County Courier Times, The Intelligencer in Doylestown and the Burlington County Times), as well as phillyburbs.com. I’ve always been into stats and figured out those numbers by going through media notes and box scores. The better the team is, the more fun the job is (2000-01 was incredible).
I love Speights’ per 36 min line:
Just shy of 19 pts, 9 boards and 2 blks. We can only hope he puts up a line like that when he is playing starters minutes.
His productivity is better than when Amare entered the league, but Amare was playing 31 min/game as a 20 year old rookie- twice that of Speights.
Of course, as Tom points out, the more Speights plays the better his production, which is a good sign.
Checked it out and what Iguodala says is true — the Sixers are the only one of the conference’s seven winning team without an all-star. Of course, they weren’t above .500 for much of the season.
SFW, im from jersey dude and richard jefferson is a bonafide 4th quarter loser with a lousy attitude. Plus he also stopped defending last year, you wanna trade Thad for that pile of crap plus Sessions? Appreciate Thad, that kid is the real deal.
Dave T…..Had to bring up Sessions, didn’t you. Don’t get me wrong. I’m happy for him that he is getting major minutes again (I still don’t understand why Skiles sat him almost completely for about a 5 week stretch) and shining.
The thing is that I drafted him on my fantasy team, he was playing great early on, then he went through a long stretch where, unless the game was a blowout one way or the other, he only played around 7 minutes per game (just enough to give Ridnour a little rest). I held onto him for weeks, but I finally decided to cut him as I needed production for my team. As soon as I saw that Redd went down I put in a waiver claim, but someone ahead of me grabbed him. I am still watching him (as much as it is killing me) because Charlie V. (who over the last 5 weeks or so is finally playing like I thought he would when I drafted him) is also on my fantasy team and I check up on him as much as I can.
Anyway, now that Ridnour is out too, Sessions is playing tons of minutes, and playing very well (damn I wish I never cut him). Not only that, he is probably their 3rd scoring option behind Charlie V. and Jefferson at this point. That game on Saturday night against the Pistons was ridiculous. I caught the second half and overtime, couldn’t get over it.
One thing though. In watching Sessions he really strikes me as a younger, skinnier Andre Miller. He handles the ball well, runs the offense well, sees the floor well, takes good shots, gets to the rim, makes his free throws, and doesn’t turn it over much. He does not have Miller’s post game or quite the same level of intelligence yet, but he is quicker.
On the downside, like Miller, he is not a 3-point shooter and, from what I’ve seen, he’s not a great on-the-ball defender. He really has trouble keeping his man in front of him a lot of the time.
I still really like him a lot but, if we made the trade that sfw proposed, as of right now we would still be in a very similar situation. Yes we would have a young PG who could be here for years, but we would still need to pair him with a shooter because, although he is young and has the potential (Dannie’s favorite word) to develop a 3-point shot, he does not have one as of yet. Right now, I see him as a fantastic backup that can effectively play more minutes if you need because of foul trouble or injury to the starter, with a max of giving us exactly what Andre Miller does right now. That is nothing to sneeze at and I really would like to have him here. It’s just that depending on what we do at other positions on the roster, we may need more from our starting PG.
Greek, Thanks for giving the real deal. Fugetaboutit! I take that trade proposal back! Don’t want to lose Thad. Just throwing stuff out there.
I hate that the Sixers have no one in the all-star game. As soon as Iverson left he took all of our out of town fan base with him.
lol sfw, im still a little tender from that Moses Malone trade back in the eighties!
Bski, I hope that your the first to grab speights off the waivers for your fantasy team.
Hey if were going to trade someone lets trade Lou Williams, lou W and millers expiring contract should be able to bring back a rockstar.
Damn i still wish we had Korver
The irony is that Korver was traded to make cap space for Brand, who hasn’t worked out so far. Now the Sixers are lamenting the lack of an outside shooter.
Several people to address:
suede, I just checked Weaver’s stats, and the good assist/TO ratio doesn’t surprise me, but he’s shooting better than I thought and he’s not getting to the line as much as I thought he would – I guess some players just ain’t tough like that. About the other Lopez, I see a more Chris Andersen-type of career, bouncing around until he finds his niche with a wanna-be contender.
jkay, good questions about the future PF. It’s fun to have Thad as the PF, but I think that trying to make it work with Brand for the next 3 years is the high-risk, but high-reward choice. Thad as the PF, how far will that take us? I want Speights at center – my vision of the Sixers for the next couple of years is a team full of multi-skilled players. I think this team, and Brand, would really benefit from someone who was much more versatile at the center position. The opposing team’s frontcourt players wouldn’t be as afraid of Speights as they are of Sam, but like I said above, the teams that are good enough to make the playoffs would have no problem making Sam a non-factor, especially in the playoffs.
About Iggy’s Sam Cassell imitation, it’s a matter of personal taste. I think the more appropriate gesture would’ve been a J-Roll type of gesture to the heavens, as a thank-you for the luck on that shot. He often can’t make that shot when he’s wide open. Make a name for yourself in some way, then start making “This is what I got. What u got?” gestures. This is where having a vet like Caron would come in handy, that vet would see that and say something like, “Your girl says they ain’t THAT big…” I understand the game emotions angle, though, and supposedly the Celtics are the biggest trash talkers in the leaue so I can see how that could’ve pushed Iggy a bit.
Dave T, for playoff success, the Sixers need exactly what you said, a guy who is “great taking guys off the dribble, can create his own shot, has improved with finishing around the rim, and hugely improved his shot from his UConn/Heat days to where he can be an effective three point shooter”. After I posted my defense of the Butler/Sammy trade, I started thinking, “Hmmm… if Caron is that good, why would the Wiz do that trade?” And the answer I came up with was because they can’t get a Sam-like presence any other way. Ernie Grunfeld’s strength seems to be acquiring “Big 3″-type of guys, but he has no idea how to surround that talent with the right role players. The Sixers, on the other hand, have the worst luck/skill at getting that “Big 3″ type of talent, but have a knack for getting really, really good role players (like Kyle Korver). In my NBA-watching lifetime, I’ve only seen 2 true stars put on that Sixers uni: Barkley and Iverson. So, I’m suggesting the Sixers and the Wizards make a macroeconomics-type trade, like where country A can grow apples at a lower cost than country B, so country B buys apples from A instead of growing their own. Let’s trade Washington our high-quality, gourmet bananas (Sammy), for their apples (Caron).
Zack…Unless Speights develops rapidly (both physically and mentally) and becomes a more physical, inside defensive presence, I am concerned about going forward without Dalembert.
Presuming that next year Jason Smith is our back up C and Speights is the starting C, that’s too much of the same thing in my book. Even though we would also presumably have Brand and Evans to pick up a lot of the physical, defensive slack down low, having two centers that prefer to play on the perimeter and are not physical, hard-nosed defenders concerns me. I mean, DiLeo has already sat Speights for not rebounding and defending. If that happens next year we will be bringing in Smith, who doesn’t rebound or defend particularly well either. I don’t know how that works exactly.
It seems that DiLeo has been the one to finally get through to Dalembert. As long as he keeps playing the way he has been recently, I am satisfied with what he gives to the team and think we should keep him.
Just watching some nba.com video, found two interesting clips:
Thad talking about the win over the Suns. There’s a part about Speights and his rebounding – it’s good news.
Top 10 All-Star game dunks. Someone did their homework, this is good stuff! I love Jason Kidd getting all excited about dunk #9: “Finish it! FINISH IT!!!” Now, THAT’S a point guard!
bski, the Detroit series is still fresh in my mind, and how ineffective Sam was. But I think it’s a moot point – not only does he have a very undesirable salary, he also has a 15% trade kicker, so given current economic conditions, that makes him pretty much untradeable. I can think of only one team that would be willing to take that kind of salary: Portland. And I can’t visualize any Sammy trades with them that they would do AND improve the Sixers’ overall talent level.
The economy is BAD. Look for Portland to make a Pau Gasol-like talent theft with LaFrentz’s contract.
Zack, if Okl. City gets Harden they will have 3 athletes in their backcourt to run with. [Westbrook,Harden,Weaver]. Next years front court is gonna be loaded, but playoffs this year should tell E.S. who is expendable. Everytime we talk about moving Reggie he kicks somebody elses ass and turns a game around.
Zack, Doc over Gilmore HAS to be #11111!!!!!!
Zack – Good links, fun to watch both.
Tom – After looking at that stat about Speights, is there any reason why you think he hasn’t seen more playing time? I know his rebounding and defense have been in question so far, but it seemed to me, even before seeing that, that he could definitely help this team more.
I would of assumed that he would have logged even more minutes than he has w/o Brand, do you see his minutes beginning to rise?
Ryan F – Check the very top of the blog should be a thin banner with the link to this post at the top of very page for easy navigation.
The popular post section is data driven. Meaning it’s a formula based on a bunch of metrics like page views and # comments etc.
We need to get Andre Miller signed ,if not the teams chemistry will not be the same and I beleave the future will even be more up in the air than it already is {with Elton Brands injury}and the young players improving. I would also say that Andre Miller has something to do with helping to improve and nuture the younger players.Changing point guards now will have many implications that I as a fan am not looking forward too. Andre Miller deserves a good contract he has a high work ethic shows up every night and he is responsable in part for the success for the past couple of seasons when the playoffs start you need a point guard of his caliber to have a chance to advance.
On N.B.A. Fastbreak it was reported that Dallas turned down B.Davis and Kaman for J.Kidd, too many years and too much money. Cuban is getting frugal, the economy must be bad!!!
SFW: I’m with Greek…if I was a GM I’d kinda laugh that trade proposal off. Now if it was for, say, Sessions and Caron Butler…that I would do in a heartbeat. But several problems with Richard Jefferson: 1. The man can’t shoot 2. the last two years have proven that Jason Kidd in his prime made the “blossoming/great” Richard Jefferson who he was, and that Richard left on his own is not so steller. 3. As Greek says, he seems to have forgotten the great defense he used to show. 4. Doesn’t bring much versatility.
aka: Pairing R Jefferson and Andre Iguodala would be a horrid combination. Thad has great potential, can shoot, works hard, plays D, can swing in and play the 4, and once he gets experience will be a far better compliment to Iguodala’s athletic/versatile skills than RJ could ever hope to be.
Bski: Kinda funny that we are in opposite boats, fantasy wise. I drafted Luke Ridnour in the late rounds thinking he’d split time at PG 60/40 with Sessions. I got real lucky in that they decided to make him the started. Granted, he was was constantly injured for most of the season, but once he got healthy he was giving me a solid 12 pts 7 asts. Of course, now he done broke his hand and is killing me with assists…hopefully nabbing Anthony Johnson post Jameer going down will save the day for me!
And…as we’re going up against each other…would just like to add that it sucks for you that Chris Bosh for you, and Andris Biedrins for me are both injured. But Villanueva has been playing amazing since Redd/Bogut have been out, looks like he’ll be a nice stat stuffer for you.
Zack: Not disagreeing with your last rebuttle about Caron Butler…I guess I should rephrase my thoughts so that it reflects my opinion better: I would like to have Caron Butler on this team as the starting SG, move Iguodala to the SF spot, and have Thad off the bench. Butler would add mental toughness, tenacity, shooting, a nice veteran all around game, and another great athletic slasher that can D up most opposing wings.
But I would not want to do that in exchange for giving up our starting center. I’ve always been a pro Sammy guy that’s thought his positives outweight his negatives, and I honestly think if the stars allign and a coach gives him regular playing time for a whole year, AND Sammy stops pouting so much, shuts up and just is a professional…we have a wonderful counterpart to the more offensive minded Elton Brand.
If we traded Sammy for a wing, we’d have an enormous, gaping hole at the C spot. that I don’t think Speights is ready to fill as he is a natural PF, defense isn’t there yet, and he is way too young for the responsibility. And as tough a combo as a healthy Brand + Reggie Evans would be, that would be the smallest frontcourt in the history of the NBA. And, I think Jason Smith is a servicable backup that can rebound a bit, hit a jumper, and thats it…should be the 9th-10th guy in a rotation, nothing more. And while I love the fact that Thad Young has the Jamison gene where he can step in and play some PF…at 6′8, do you really want Young at PF sliding the also 6′8 Brand at C?
Even tweaking the proposal to include a Wizards big has problems. Etan Thomas has heart and health issues and is perennially injured. Brendon Haywood is getting healthy from a year long recovery from a major injury. Oleksy Pecherov is looking like a poor man’s Andre Bargnani (not a compliment). Darius Songaila is not tall enough. Which leaves Andray Blatche…who would fit the bill.
Couldn’t be straight up, as the Wiz would want some sort of SF in return, and we need a big. So if salaries matched…and altough I’m too lazy to check, I think Sammy and Butler are both around $11-12 million…Thad is on the rookie scale, as is Blatche (although Blatche makes far less being picked later)…a trade proposal that makes a bit more sense might be:
Sixers get – Caron Butler, Andray Blatche
Wizards get – Sammy Dalembert, Thad Young
Sixers:
PG – A-Miller
SG – C. Butler
SF – Iguodala
PF – Brand
C – Blatche
bench – Speights, Ivey, Evans, Ratliff (and hopefully Johnny Flynn in the 09 draft!)
Wizards:
PG – Mike James / Crittenton
SG – G. Arenas
SF – T. Young
PF – A. Jamison
C – Dalembert
bench: N. Young, D. McGuire, D. Songaila, B. Haywood
Dave T: thanks for bringing the conversation down to earth. all that ‘untouchable’ talk is not realistic enough.
Speights looks to be very promising. I will start watching Elton Brand closely, you never know… Still dunno if he will be better than Thad at his position cos Thad looks to be the real deal and our rookie is actually older than him.
All said I need to stress that that game was one of the worst so far. Sixers played well enough but there seemed to be almost no competition at all. You kinda like the exciting dunks and play but you know that aint gonna happen if just any other team was out there.
Ok Sixers!! NO slip-ups against a Gay-less Memphis team, put ‘em away by mid-4th and let Speights and Lou come out to play around.
p.s.: Not saying I would pull the trigger on the above Sixers – Wizards trade…I would actually reject it. But I’m just throwing it out there as probably the only reasonable scenario that could see both Butler and Dalembert changing uniforms, and a proposal that would certainly make me stop and think for a long while before saying no.
Caron Butler at SG looks as out of place as Iguodala at SG.
Blatche is a PF. forget the height, he weighs less than Sp8 or Jason Smith. Skinny would get pushed around. Kinda like when Bosh played C in Toronto in 1st & 2nd yrs. His game is more finesse than both Smith and Speights. Josh Smith type IMO.
Jkay: Like I said, I would definitely not pull the trigger on that trade if I’m the Sixers brass (or Wizards, for that matter)…but I disagree with your statement on Caron.
With the SG/SF thing they tend to be the most similar positions in basketball. Often the technical position matters less, and what matters most, IMO, is if you have one guy that is a legit shooter out of the two, and the other guy that is a legit slasher with handle that can break down a defender. Boston is the perfect example with more “traditional” roles of each position… Ray is there to shoot, Pierce is there to slash more often than not…but even there they both are at a high enough level that they each can handle the ball, operate from the wing as well as the top of the key, are expected to help out with opposing SG/SF’s on defense, and both need to slash as well as shoot, and be above average passers.
Caron Butler on the Wizards has definitely toggled a dual role of SG/SF, and effectively. When Arenas is healthy, many times they’ll put Gil at the 1, Butler at the 2, slide Jamison to the three and put Blatche/Songaila at 4, and Haywood/Etan at the 5 to go big. Anytime DeShaun Stevenson was hurt, they’d usually switch Caron Butler to the SG spot. The guy is 6′6, certainly right in that dual height ballpark for both positions, and handles the ball a lot and often sets up the offense from various spots on the 3 point line.
Not trying to split hairs…but I bring this up because Butler is FAR more of a SG then, say, Iguodala. Caron can actually shoot the rock…thus him as the SG and Iguodala as the SF would be a definite upgrade from Iggy as our “SG” and Thad at SF. Thad may very well turn into the better player in the long term, more capable of both hitting threes and playing the 4 spot than Butler…but for right now, you’ve got to say a two time all star is more capable.
And Blatche is kinda comparable to Dalembert in the sense that he is a tall (6′11), lanky/wirey big guy that has never reached his potential, is not the most mentally tough guy on the planet haha, but in spurts can make himself appear to be a regular double double guy. Also, Blatche has that Kwame Brown side in the good way…dude has actual basketball talent and IQ. He has a finesse side of him on offense that is sometimes shockingly effective, and when he tries (repeat: when), can be one hell of a rebounder.
Then again, it’s pretty much a scientific NBA law that any time you are making some sort of argument for a player, and a comparison comes up with the name “Kwame” and “Brown”, said argument is null and void. But I just want to make the distinction that whereas D-Bere is a clueless basketball idiot with no IQ that in seven years is still COMPLETELY raw…Kwame Brown and Blatche actually have legitimate talent that could blossom, and most likely never will.
I can’t believe I just took the time to write all the above when I don’t even like the deal from our end, feel free to kick me JKay.
DaveT., gotta disagree about Jefferson!s shooting, seems he is a pretty good catch and shoot guy, we need less dribbling in this offense, and his 3 pt. shooting seems to have gotten better. As far as his defense, he went through what Iggy went through when A.I. left, going from the third to first option, Iggy!s defense also suffered, that is why I give Koby so much credit, playing both ends at a high level. If I could get either him or Butler without giving up Sam, I would do it. Question, who is more valuable to this team, Sam or Thad ?
DiLeo seems to like going to Speights at the start of the second quarter and playing him all period if he has a good night. DiLeo typically goes back to Speights in the fourth quarter. I’d like to see Speights continue to play 18-24 minutes to see how he does on a consistent basis before upping his minutes. Don’t forget, he was scoreless in seven minutes just three games ago (in the first one without Brand).
Tom, you said it best!
“Perhaps most telling is that the Sixers are 13-2 when Speights plays 20-plus minutes.”
Let the kid get his burn.
Dave T: I like your ideas, but I’m not sure we’re so far away from being a competitor that we want to trade two starters at one time. Of course, there’s an argument that Thad isn’t really a starter (i.e. that he’s only holding Elton’s place until he heals). However, he’s definitely starter quality and worthy of starter minutes, even if he isn’t in the actual starting lineup.
That brings me to this… will a PF/C combination of Thad, Sammy, Marreese, Reggie, and Theo be enough to truly compete with the big three in the East next year? The answer… it’s entirely possible they will. The complementary question is then… will a PG/SG combination of Miller, Green, Ivey, and Williams be enough to compete with these teams? The answer… it’s highly unlikely. I’d love to resign Miller and Ivey has proven to be a pretty damn good backup to him… but our shooting guard tandem is obviously the weak link on this team. Hell, we’re in last place right now in 3 point percentage and you can basically hang that on the shooting guards.
Looking at this logically, there’s a simple solution to the problem. It sounds ugly and a lot of people won’t support it, but it’s trading Elton Brand. Sure, he never really got the chance to prove himself, but it’s looking more and more like Ed addressed the wrong problem last summer. It looked like our most dire need was a low post presence and that’s what Ed took care of. As it turns out, we would have been much better off had he spent the money on a top notch shooting guard. As a result, after resigning Miller, the next move Ed should make is to undo the error of last summer… that is, trade Brand for a killer shooting guard. Who? Good question. Will Milwaukee let go of Michael Redd? They both have large salaries. They’ll both be coming off injuries. They’re practically the same age. Hell, I’d even throw in a draft pick or another low salary player (e.g. Kareem Rush) if that’s what it took to make the deal happen.
Just food for thought.
The Brand for Redd deal is an interesting hypothetical. Bot are 2nd level stars. Both fit their classic potions very well. Both teams have young players filling in well in their absence (Speights and Sessions) who can bring some special things to the table.
The Sixers are in a tough spot. The whole idea of getting Brand was to match up better in the playoffs, and I think even with Speights emergence, that would still be an issue.
A line-up of Sam/Thad/Iguodala/Redd/Miller with Speights and Lou of the bench would win a ton of games (55+), but would not get you far in the playoffs. Unfortunatle, unless Brand regains his 2006 form, the team as constructed plus a good shooter (MLE) still won’t be enough to be a contender.
Sorry, typo city…
Unless Dave T. is calling it quits on this season, I don’t see trading two starter not having a negative impact on team chemistry. My issue with Butler is whether or not he brings a winning attitude with him to the Sixers. Guys stuck in long-term losing situations generally are comfortable with that. With the Sixers having so many young players they’ve managed to stay away from that losing type attitude. Also. just because Thad won’t be a first tier star I don’t know if that’s enough of a reason to give up on him so soon. Trading away young players with potential is a page out of the Larry Brown era. I think the team is still paying a price for some of his ill advsied moves.
lol, were not getting Butler. Madnupus, don’t forget about Jason Smith. As far a trading thad, just like sfw said… fuuugggghetabooutit
Just for the record: I don’t at all agree with my own trade proposal haha…I was just throwing it out there to see what others might think of that type of swap, because another poster was talking about a Butler-Sammy swap straight up, which on it’s own wouldn’t make sense, and would need to involve compensation for each position the one team was giving up.
Personally, I think we should stand pat and not make a trade, unless an unbelievable deal came up, which I dont see happening.