Quick post before my basketball game tonight.
Pete is at the game with his Dad. I gave him my tickets for this game so he’ll have to let us know how the sell out crowd was (yes expected sell out tonight with LeBron in town and A.I. coming off a good game).
Rapid Fire Pregame Thoughts
- Iguodala better be 100% with his ribs because this is obviously the toughest match-up he has all season and we all know Thad doesn’t stand a chance.
- 2nd best three point shooting vs. our putrid 28th 3pt defense. Recipe for disaster.
- Jrue is likely starting since Jordan hates Brand and is clearly taking advantage of the fact that Brand is a professional and won’t flip out.
- Speights is back just 4 weeks after his MCL surgery. This is beyond stupid to bring him back at the first possible chance but two Ed’s need to do whatever they can to keep their jobs. We just need to pray for the best because the worst would be devastating.
- Fully expect us to get destroyed on the boards. As much as it was nice to see Thad get after it the other day on the glass it was against a soft, small unmotivated bunch of kids. Tonight will be a much different story. He’ll have a quickness advantage against Hickson but I am not sure that will make up for his girth and strength disadvantage on the boards. Need Jrue to help out big time on the boards tonight.
- Speaking of Jrue, I so want him to lock down Williams. I just don’t like him. It’s a good test (along with Parker) because his off the ball defense will be tested an area I think he needs to be more focused. Can’t leave shooters, starring at LeBron.
I’ll probably be around for a little bit of the first quarter and maybe the 4th. Will have to catch this one on the rerun – if it’s even worth it.
At the end of 3… Down by 3. We’d be winning by at least 5 if we stopped fouling them and letting them grab offensive boards.
Get Carney and Willie out of the game now!!!!! Eddie Jordans 4th qt lineups are a joke. Put Iggy and AI back in the game right now.
Ha Willie is waiving Iggy off so he can guard Lebron. Granted he did a good job twice but is too short to challenge a Lebron jump shot.
2one5,
If I’m EJ, I put Andre on Bron for the last 5 minutes of the game. Willie is a good on-ball defender, but can’t match up height wise. Damn Lebron killed us in the 4th.
Good news though…. Thad learned how to rebound.
So what did I miss?
Dannie, you missed a repeat of what you saw during the 12 game losing streak.
Able to hang close throughout the game, but not being able to finish. Key offensive rebounds by the Cavs (box score wouldn’t show it). You also missed Lebron go to work.
Here is what I want to know 9 assists only 1 turnover for Holiday. What type of assist were they?
Pass around the key for open shots or true playmaking type dimes?
ok someone tell me how the bleep Willie Green always finds his way into our lineups in the 4th quarter???
where was Jrue Holiday in the late 4th quarter? benched, that rotator cuff better be re-aggravated or sumthin.
the bleep? why put WG on Lebron, Iguodala was doing a good enough job (as anyone could have)?
EJ you’re killing me meen. killing us. 1st time this team looked like it might actually win a game. wow
i actually got to see it in this game. Holiday is GOOD! defensively that is. i think his play on Mo Williams defined the whole game. allowed us to even compete without getting destroyed on pick and rolls. the kid has great anticipation of the offensive players moves; spin, cross over, drive, he always ended up in front of Mo Williams. crazy, a veteran all-star. made him look clumsy. check how many minutes Delonte West played tonight, its probably a season high. definitely as good or better than Iguodala as a rookie. i should enjoy watching him start.
dumbass move playing Speights, even though he looked awesome.
Iguodala needs to stop taking those ‘heat checks’. other than that. good.
when it all comes down to it; another loss.
Dannie: about Jrue’s assists – think it was a combination. but they definitely were’nt cheapies. a lot of them were heady plays in transition when he pushed the ball up the court after a made FG and some pick and rolls. good eye
Dannie, he made a couple of defensive plays where he stopped his man than helped and got a steal on somebody elses man. A couple of real nice assists, one to Marreese who looked good tonight. Mo Williams didn!t make a shot till the last minute on Jrue and D.West was about 1 for 6 against him. No offense to Sixers of the past but he is the best defensive Sixers guard I can remember since W. Jones.
I’m probably biased, but Jrue’s defense was unbelievable. There were about 8 plays where Williams or West tried to is Jrue and they were just flat out stoned. Mo Williams did not hit a shot until midway through the 3rd quarter. He could not do anything until near the end, when they went to a 2 man game with Williams/Lebron, where Iguodala switched onto Williams. Then Williams hit 2 shots on Iguodala, and EJ the great decided to sub in WG for Jrue for the final 3 minutes. After that WG switched onto Lebron for 3 straight possessions and jacked some bad shots to seal the loss.
As for the assists- a lot were pretty conventional, but were also very much on time and in rhythm for the shooters. I think he had 3 assists on penetration or the break. He also got robbed of 3 or 4 assists due to Sam being unable to catch or guys missing or being fouled on dunks.
I’m sure I’m not the only Sixer fan who pretty much was glued onto Jrue’s game on both ends. Obviously he makes some 19 year old mistakes, but he is a true PG. When he drives there’s a good chance someone will get a great look for a dunk. And his defense looks to be better than Snow in his prime (although Snow was more error free.)
BTW, nice to see Spieghts back. He looks less the Beast and more Cookie Monster. he has “rounded into form” and maybe, like Lou, they should have wired his jaws shut.
Looked D.C. like carrying about 20 pounds of extra fat. he otherwise loked good. Hooked up with Jrue for some good looks (nothing with AI yet.) And I assume he’ll burn off the fat now that he can run again.
Good to see Marreese the Beast is back though.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a 19 year old guard go out there with the attitude that he’s going to lock down on defense whatever great NBA guard he’s playing. And he’s already put together some impressive defensive performances this year. I don’t usually enjoy watching defense, but it is fun to see someone lock down some of the quickest people in the NBA.
tk76, this team MAY become pretty good defensively in spite of their coach; when Jrue was on the floor it seemed everybody!s a] job got easier b] their effort was better.
At least something to look forward to when the Sixers eventually get a coach who views defense as mreo tha just a respite from offense.
Also, Thad with 35 rebounds in the last 3 games. It would normally take him 9 games to grab that many. Hope the light has finally come on.
i never put much stock on individual defense. i thought that any NBA player can light up on any given night regardless of defender but Holiday’s performance last night was a proof of how it can win a game for you. You take away some crazy shots LeBron made and its a tie ball game at the end. maybe even a win if EJ hadnt intervened.
all it took was lock down defense on one player, and a good showing from Sam against Shaq (who is basically a side show these days). imagine if Iguodala or the team itself was able to contain Lebron?
will EJ the genius capitalise on this?
ohh i forget he’s trying to get us JohnWall. sorry
Speights : at 6-10, 245lbs coming off a ligament injury plays 22 minutes and takes 4 more shots than Elton Brand who was on the floor for all of 33 minutes. Brand whose role has now been reduced to a super Reggie Evans catching airball shots underneath the basket for easy putbacks. i could have sworn Sammy got more touches. somehow it seems everyone has been given specific instructions to ignore him, even though that mid range jumpshot is now falling.
Can anyone ever remember, in re cent memory, anything at all like the current Elton Brand vs. Eddie Jordan scenario going on right now? The only thing I can think of is Nellie’s shinnanigans in Golden State…allowing a player a loose rope, said player having a string of 4-5 goo games, then inexplicably yanking them from the court and having them riding the bench without rhyme or reason.
This Brand thing is one of the most unprofessionally handled coaching moves I have seen in recent memory. I wonder if behind the scenes there is something we are not aware of and they’ve had a verbal altercation? Really. How does our guy, paid like a franchise player, that has been anywhere from solid to good in the majority of basketball categories anyone would be concerned with, getting LESS pt with every good effort he gives? This is getting out of hand. There are ways to get Jrue more minutes without slashing those of Brand.
Ugh *slamming head on desk*
The crazy thing about the ES/Brand fiasco is that it involves Stefanski’s 2 biggest acquisitions.
As for individual defense impacting a game… I think having a dominant inside defender like Shaq in his prime completely changes the complexion of the game. A lock down PG is nearly as good, but will have variable impact depending on the opponent. I remember when Kidd entered the league. He was absolutely dominant on defense, and it had a bigger impact than the fancy passes that got him media attention. In fact in college I remember him bulling opposing PG’s into a one man trap at the time line. It was amazing to watch.
I don’t think Jrue will be as much of a dominant/disruptive defensive force as Kidd was- but he would be great in a Jerry Sloan type of system (with some more fast break to spice it up.) This draft seems to have been loaded with promising PG’s- and I’m still very happy they got Holiday.
Iverson out for tomorrow’s game with knee arthritis and a shoulder contusion. Should be back for Saturday’s home game.
jkay – Have you ever watched Michael Jordan play defensively? Just curious.
Tk76 – While I think inside defenders (shot blockers) inherently may impact the game more I think it’s player and situation dependent overall individually.
I would consider a perimeter player capable of
impacts the game equally if not more (I personally believe its more) than inside players.
The reason I say it’s more is because every team has at least one key offensive perimeter player (whether is a slasher to score or create, shooter or complete player) whereas some teams do not have a go-to inside player offensively.
In those cases an inside defenders impact is relegated to help situations and rebounding, in effect they could be taken out of the game by strong perimeter and shooting teams even at plays at the basket since they are often 2-1 situations for a shot blocker.
An elite, versatile perimeter defender, in my opinion is in position to lock down an entire team in some cases. They can take away shot opportunities and penetration at the point of attack which limits the need for helping and rotating. Limits defensive fouls since incessant penetration invariably leads to more contact, fouls and foul shots. Can help out inside with good doubling, raking, jab and recovering, weak side helping and rebounding.
That can completely shut down an entire offense for some teams since they won’t be able to ride their go-to perimeter player. They won’t be able to create advantages with dribble penetration. They will have a harder time setting up and fluidly running their offense. Etc., etc.
I just think positionally perimeter players could have the most impact defensively since they can cover so much more ground and potentially could cover 3 different wing positions (like a Pippen).
The problem: there just aren’t many perimeter players that play that kind of defense for us to actually see it in action as regularly as we see strong inside defenders. Plenty are capable physically, they just don’t for a host of reasons.
Dave T 12.17.09 at 12:59 pm
Can anyone ever remember, in re cent memory, anything at all like the current Elton Brand vs. Eddie Jordan scenario going on right now? The only thing I can think of is Nellie’s shinnanigans in Golden State…allowing a player a loose rope, said player having a string of 4-5 goo games, then inexplicably yanking them from the court and having them riding the bench without rhyme or reason. This Brand thing is one of the most unprofessionally handled coaching moves I have seen in recent memory. I wonder if behind the scenes there is something we are not aware of and they’ve had a verbal altercation? Really. How does our guy, paid like a franchise player, that has been anywhere from solid to good in the majority of basketball categories anyone would be concerned with, getting LESS pt with every good effort he gives? This is getting out of hand. There are ways to get Jrue more minutes without slashing those of Brand. Ugh *slamming head on desk*
I could not have worded that more perfectly… this whole thing has been handled unprofessionally and it is not resulting in any more wins. I have mentioned before Brand has done nothing to be treated like this and someone who is made up of high as character as he is shouldn’t be thrown on the bench and treated awfully. As much as I love the Sixers it is hard for me to be emotionally involved anymore with the recent things that have taken place. I have such a hard time rooting for a team that has a pompous coach, a know it all player who tagged himself as a number 1 in this league but can’t back it up and makes the dreaded face were all familiar with when things don’t pan out for him, and a coward of a GM who can’t admit this coaching hire was a mistake
Dannie: you’re actually right. i never got to see MJ games live. by the time i got interested in NBA, Jordan was coming off retirement. i’m not the kinda guy to watch tape so didnt see many of his past games, just clips. have seen many a good individual effort on defense but it never seems to mean much if the team doesnt play defense together.
I’m learning.
Iverson is out for Friday. perhaps we shall see the emancipation of Elton, be it only for one night?
ohh wait its EJ so dont rule out a Willie Green start. lol
host number 1: it is extremely hard work
host number 2: headlines and plaudits rarely come of it
host number 3: even when executed to perfection, 4 others factor & can negate
host number 4: the big $ is made on Ballthroughhoop St.
host number 5: there is a misperception that anyone can do it, with enough sweat
Reasons for Sixers loss last night: Look no further than team’s 5-17 arc shooting (Holiday 1-5, Iguodala 3-7 [2-6 when it counted] ) as opposed to Cavs’ 9-15 marksmanship, along with turnover contrast - Sixers 15 (Iguodala 3, Speights 3, Young 3), Cavs only 8. Shooting & handling: players’ responsibility, not head coach’s. Lack of execution, not mismanagement, drove the outcome.
Dannie raises good points about how a wing defender can impact a gam,e and take an entire team out of its offense- but I still would take the dominant defensive interior player over the equally good wing. They can force teams to settle for jumpers and control the boards. Single shot jump shot possessions are typically bad offense.
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I’ll arbitrarily break defenders into 4 groups- keeping in mind a player does not have to be pigeon-holed into only one group:
1: Strong the ball defensive guards who deny penetration and shots. Against certain teams, they stop the driving force of the offense dead in its tracks. Mostly PG’s, but some SG’s.
-Examples: Billups, Kidd, PaytonDumars. Newer: Harris, Holiday, T. Evans
2: Bing wings who deny penetration and shots at multiple positions. More versatile, but not specialized enough to routinely shut down elite PG’s like CP3, Parker, AI(in prime.) (Although truly elite ones can at tiems)
Examples: MJ, Pippen, Bowen, Kobe. Newer: Battier, Iguodala(?). Therre should be a lot more given all of the great athletes
3. Smaller ”safeties” who are ball hawks. they make a team afraid to pass and turn steals into quick baskets. They may not be shut down defenders, but they harry the other opponent, taking them out of rhythm.
Examples: CP3, Alvin Robertson, A!(on his good days). newer: Ty Lawson?, John Wall?
4. ”Activity” Bigs. Get rebounds, steals, harry big men, scrap, set a physical tone. Also get O-Boards.
Example: Rodman is the gold standard. R. Evans is the sub-standard. Ben Wallace. I would probably put Sam in this category, but he gets blocks.
5. Dominat/phisical interior defenders. Rebound, defend the post, intimdate, shut down an area 5 ft from the rim.
Examples: Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Eaton. Newer: Howard, Oden?
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I’d say the Sixers have the potential to have 2 excellent defenders in Jrue and Iguodala. The rest of the crew is patently average. Wonder what a great defensive coach could do with them… but it would really help to draft an elite interior defender to play next to Speights or Brand (and replace Sam. Then they would have the makings of a great defemsive unit.
Jkay – I’ll gladly second Dannie, and I’d recommend, if you can catch any full prime-era Chicago Bulls games on ESPN classic from the 90s, watching the utter delight that was the defensive prowess of both Jordan AND Pippen. When both of those guys turned on their A+ defensive games, it’s pretty incredible to watch them just absolutely stifle all star caliber wing players. They’d go up against top flight offenses and be able to constantly harass and make them work harder then any other team.
I think the only comparison I could make would be to take Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen in their prime, imagine them being twice as dominant and hungry defensively, and them being set loose on the opposition with near full intensity and effort damn near every game. Spectacular stuff.
The defender I always wished I was old enough to watch regularly and appreciate is Alvin Robertson. I’ve caught some old games with him in it, but still don’t think I have an appreciation for how good this guy was in shutting down perimeter players. Any player from that era talks about what a nightmare he was when guarding you, and that they’d enter the game already psyched, and felt like they had a potential ceiling for the type of offensive damage they could do simply because of his presence and intimidation on the court.
Random note: Has Thad Young been hanging out with Barkley and Moses Malone all the sudden? I’m loving his effort on the glass the last few games, lets hope he keeps this up.
I was young, but I remember Alvin Robinson as like Dumars but much more aggressive- more of a ball hawk. There were some amazing defenders in that era. Guys like Rodman, Dumars, Robertson, Eaton, Cooper , DJ, Cheeks, Tree… Bol
As well as some stars like Hakeem, Kareem, Mchale and MJ who would dominate on both ends.
http://www.nba.com/history/awards_defensiveteams.html
Per Fagan EJ chosing to start Willie “got it going on” Green over Brand tonight. He must like that Green/Allan and Thad/KG match-up.
Over/under for Thad’s boards? He has 35 in the last 3 games… I call 6 for tonight.
Can we have a post strictly dedicated to the brand/jordan relationship… I find the posts you and Pete write very well writen and informative and I think a lot of us are dumbfounded by the particular situation and lack of media attetion.. which is most likley due to the fact were not very good. Does anyone else think that the signing of Iverson was not only for media attetion and attendance purposes but also to distract us fans from the loosing streak that was occuring and awful handling of Brand with the hope of giving Jordan an even longer string for us fans?
Chuck – I’ll see what I can do this weekend.
It’s tough since the media doesn’t ask nearly enough questions let alone the right questions to pull out information us fans really want to know.
It really is amazing how poorly Jordan has handled the Brand issue. Really. The funny thing is, Brand’s quietly playing the best, most consistent, ball of his time here in Phila.
Morty … which says to me that Jordan, rather than handling him poorly, is playing Brand like an expensive fiddle … old schooler pinching minutes, new schooler (on downside of career) breathing fire on occasion.
“Best, most consistent ball of his time here in Philly” … considering his spotty showing in our fair city to date, feint praise. As a player, he reminds me of a slipping transmission.
When looking for a past p.g. that Holliday may emulate, tonight!s opposing coach may fit the bill; same size, never dominate but steady and good defensively.
Rondo is quite a bit shorter and smaller than Holiday. Rondo’s crazy 6’10″ wingspan and huge hands allows him to defend and rebound really well for a 6’1″ PG. Physically, Holiday can play to different strengths (bigger frame and potentially a lot stronger.) Both can be the same type of PG in terms of top level defense and pass first penetrators. Jrue has potentially much better range on his jumper, while Rondo has more quickness when penetrating.
tk76, Comparing him to Rivers, and would be happy if he reaches that level. He seems to have a chance to be better than Rondo scoring the ball and hope he keeps affecting games defensively, similarly to Rondo.