I am a little preoccupied tonight so there is no preview for tonight’s game.
The Sixers need to rebound after a pathetic performance against the Clippers.
Carmelo is out tonight. Billups is questionable.
Ty Lawson is starting and coming off his best game as a pro.
One way or another it will be entertaining.
Our transition defense is so fucking awful…wow. This is a layup drill for the Nuggets.
Kate Fagan rips Eddie Jordan in article
Iverson having a nice 2nd quarter, great to see him attacking the basket.
Thad is such a softie on defense when he plays against legitimate, bruising PF’s like K-Mart or Nene. Every time they get the ball in the post and Thad is guarding them, it looks like Nene/K-Mart are going up against a scarecrow that could just blow away in the wind. Thad is also settling for way too many jumpers instead of putting the ball on the floor. Ugh.
I can’t take this lack of defensive effort anymore. This Sixers’ team shows absolutely no heart on the defensive end. None. How can you walk on the court when you are paid 7-8 figure salaries and have NO pride in stopping the opposition from scoring? They have completely checked out on this end of the floor. There is no communication, no defensive chemistry, EJ is clearly not concentrating on this part of the game, which is ridiculous given it was a STRENGTH the last two years, and has gone to the bottom of the NBA now.
I am sick of watching slow rotations. I am sick of watching players literally not help out at all and step up when player’s drive to the basket. I am sick of poor on ball, individual defensive, and sick of the few players we DO have good at on ball defense making poor judgement decisions and biting on silly fakes or having bad positioning with their stance. I am sick of our total lack of frontcourt intimidation defensively, and am sick of how ANY other team’s big men can just waltz inside our lane and score because we have a bunch of fucking faeries playing. The Nuggets are killing us WITHOUT MELO AND BILLUPS…CMON.
GRRRRR.
If they didn!t have Sam, this team would give up 150 ppg. . N.B.A. commercial at halftime, where defense happens, I guess the Sixers aren!t in the N.B.A. . A.I. is playing as well as A.Miller did last year in the last 4 games, similar to T.Hardeway, late in his career.
Jrue knocked the ball off Lawson!s leg for a turnover and gets taken out next time down, that will teach hjm to try and defend. If they are not running the P.O. and not practicing defense what are they doing at practice, playing H.O.R.S.E. .
The sixers have a ridiculously easy Jan schedule. They could easily go 11-4 i they just return to near last year’s form and they would be in the thick of it for the 8th seed. However, I would love for them to dump Iggy and start over so I hope they aren’t looking at the schedule like I am.
11-4
Easily?
That’s pretty funny.
The Sixers still can’t finish a game to save their lives. Missed free throws, poor shot selection etc. in 4th quarter.
Philly: You are aware we allowed a Billup & Melo-less Nuggets team to drop SIXTY on us in one half…gain a 15 point lead only to blow it with atrocious interior defense to squeak out a W by 3 points…right after just mailing it in to the Clippers, one of the most inconsistent teams in the NBA, on a team that has shown absolutely NO ability to beat teams that have less talent then we do, and plays DOWN to their competition, being coached by a guy that is rapidly outdoing Johnny Davis as our worst coach in 15 years, a guy who is punishing players for good play and confusing people with his rotations and minutes…that ignores defense?
THIS is the team you think will go 11-4? Keep dreaming.
I am getting tired of Pinkney!s teamshill type comments; got to give this team credit for their hard play in this altitude on the last game of a roadtrip; hey Eddie, when you give NO effort down the other end of the court it is easy to conserve energy, he is as bad as Salmi !!!
Dannie, Jrue did well on Ty but he abused Lou and Willie.
Suede I agree about Pinkney, and even Zumoff occasionally drags himself down to Pinkneys level with the “What do you mean about that?” comments in regards to stuff like “High-Low”, “Pick-N-Pop”, “Euro Step” , etc. I still think Zumoff is awesome Play-by-Play though. Pinkney is one of the most overt homers i’ve ever heard. No Sixer does wrong. Get 4 fouls in 1 half? Get called an ELITE interior defender. Sammy…ELITE?
Ty Lawson’s ability to finish at the rim with body contact from bigs continues to amaze me
Phillyfan-You are aware the Sixers are a bottom 5 NBA team right? Who on this “great” road trip, defeated a Melo&Billups-less Nuggets, a depleted Blazer squad, and a Tyreke Evans-less Sac Town team. I give credit for them winning on the opponents home floors, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
wow even Sixers wins are tough to stomach. we won the game but did not play well at all.
the Princeton Defense is really taking its toll on our Points allowed average, we’re rising up there with phoenix and Golden State now.
would have preferred it if they lost this game, maybe they would have learned something then.
maybe EJ read Fagan’s mildly scathing article and decided to play Carney more (even to the detriment of Mr. Franchise himself) and even brought back the endangered-by-foul species; Sammy back in the 4th. just in time to check out with 6 but not before smacking Ty Lawson’s layup attempts back into his face…..as he ought to.
Garvey: you ungrateful little….. *****. I ought to bring Bob Salmi back just for that.
Jrue +17 in his 11 minutes… The rest of the game the team was -14 against a crippled Denver team without its two best players.
Another win where Jrue, Speights and Thad combine for less that 48 minutes. If they really are trying to develop the young players how come AI and Green get more combined minutes than those 3? I’m happty with wins if it is a byproduct of the young players improving and learning to be NBA players. But can’t say I took much out of tonight’s win.
Jkay – Haha I agree with your calling Fagan’s “mildly” scathing article…but I’d say compared to other Sixers coverage, ANY type of article that blatently critiques and takes two whole paragraphs breaking down just how silly some of EJ’s moves are, and critiquing the team in general, are a pretty huge step in the right direction…relatively speaking.
Ty Lawson – Any “surprise” about him succeeding in the NBA or finishing among the big 6’9 – 7’0 trees should not exist, given the fact that anyone who watched him at UNC could clearly see him demonstrate this ability time and time again. It never ceases to amaze me how scouts and GMs seem to almost disregard actual GAME performance from college players. Obviously the NBA game is drastically different, and of course you have to project how a college player’s game will have to change in order to succeed in the higher competition level…but really, any evidence you need to evaluate a player is how they perform in GAMES…watching the little things in all bball categories, and not all this ridiculous hype/individual workout/combine garbage that so many players are judged by now.
(Garvey, didn’t mean the “surprise” comment against you…it IS amazing to see when 5’10 – 5’11 players are able to find the seems like that when in the paint against bigs. I just get so !@#$ing pissed about Ty Lawson, DeJaun Blair, CDR, Budinger and others dropping low that are so obviously prepared to play in the NBA…sore subject with me!)
One positive about the game: Lou Williams. We can all agree that last year he had an absolutely atrociously terrible season where all of us called for his head. But even throughout that I stuck to my mantra that if we treat Lou Williams as a 6th man, as opposed to any type of PG or starting fill in SG which he should not be…the guy can play.
Lou Williams has brought some nice explosiveness and confidence to his game this year, and he has shown flashes of maturity that we have not seen in recent seasons. I honestly think he has the potential to be a top five 6th man in the NBA…he is a skilled, creative scorer that has great quickness and can break people down on the dribble. While he doesn’t look to pass first, as a 6th man combo guard he CAN pass and does chip in a few assists a game. I’d hesitate from just tossing him in a trade, and feel he could be a great asset down the road for us by keeping him in our “core”. A bench is important, he makes a great bench player.
Let me just run this buy all of you and see if you can make heads or tails of it.
Of the Sixers starting 5, Thad was the only player with a positive +/- at +4.
Thad +4
Iggy -6
Sam -7
A.I – 7
Lou – 15 (friggin fantastic), he might as well stand at center court and just wait for an outlet pass rather than take up space pretending to play defense.
Now of the remaining 6 Sixers players that saw game action, thus, came off the bench, all but 1(Speights -3) had a positive +/-.
Elton +2
Willie +13
Carney +7
Smith +10
Speights -3
Jrue +17 (getting a inexcusable 11 minutes)
Now granted the Sixers won but compare that with the Nuggets who had 4 of their 5 starters with a positive +/- and all 4 of their bench players in the negative.
On the surface it looks like the wrong guys are getting the majority of the minutes. Why is this team continue to hinder Jrue’s growth by insisting that A.I or Lou for that matter are really starters?
Dannie: I realize 10-4 the rest of the month looks unlikely. But I still do not think it is unlikely. EVERY team has a spurt in them during a long season and this team has the talent to have such a spurt against bad competition. They HAVE manged to win 10 games being bad. They HAVE won 3 of 4 on the road. You say they are against injury-depleted teams but you seem to discount that alot of the sixers 23 losses were without Speights and Williams. Just look at the schedule. January is filled with other bottom-10 teams in this league – most at home. Sixers will be 20-27 at end of January. Geez guys, not like I am predicting a title. 20-27.
Plus/minus game to game = meh. I like the stat with large sample sizes, game to game not so much.
Lou can play offense, that’s it. Let’s be clear here. He is a horrible defender and that alone almost negates what he does on the offensive end.
And his shot selection is still underwhelming. He takes 4 threes per game and shoots 28.9%
I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him because at the end of the day it opens up minutes for Jrue as a byproduct.
I agree with Dannie. Lou has gotten his offensive game back in gear (but he still is the highest volume lousy 3pt shooter in the NBA), but his defense continues to be non-existent.
Lou’s PG weaknesses as a creator and defender even more glaring when you watch a 19 year old work to deny penetration and on offense pass to generate good looks. I don’t feel Lou ever is trying to set up his teammates to score. He either is trying to score himself or just making simple passes around the perimeter. He basically has been playing SG.
Phillyfan – Like I said before. That’s funny.
And sure the Sixers have had injuries, but they weren’t winning any games before the injuries and there play is just as poor after the got guys back.
Most of the games they have won have been horribly played (defensively) and fluke like games based on the positive side of their streaky shooting. That breeds inconsistency.
So to think they will win 10 out of 14 with a team that can’t shoot well consistently, is the 2nd worse defensive team in the league and headed by a guy who is very clearly clueless as to what it takes to win, is pretty laughable for me.
You, of course can have your optimism. I simply do not share it even a little bit.
Well let’s think about this, who does Lou remind you of? A.I perhaps? Not a shock to know that A.I is Lou’s idol.
Now A.I was a tad better at trying to get other guys involved but not really. At the end of the day A.I was about A.I and that is exactly what Lou is. Lou will get his, rest assured but at the cost of others. What good is a guy who can score 15-20 points a game when he gives up just as many points because of his lack of effort on the defensive end, because let’s be real. Defense is all about effort. Not skill. It’s effort. But when Lou gives up as much as he gets and then hinders others from getting theirs or even attempting to develop a flow then what good is he really?
Coach Clueless thought that a guy who doesn’t pass and jack’s up shots like the ball was a hot coal could run the Princeton Offense? Really coach? You really thought that would work? I wonder if tomorrow Coach will tell us that Sam Bowie wasn’t really a bust.
Phillyfan, So a team that played .303 ball in its first 33 will play .714 ball in its next 14? To what particular change, other than a weaker schedule, do you ascribe their
coming ascension? A more gelatinous substitution rotation? The road trip’s find of sudden fraternity within the ranks? A heretofore unseen teamwide fascination with defensive strategizing and deployment, through quick thinking and sweat beads? While basketball is a confidence & readiness game, spurts arrive mainly through extended superior play (winning and cohesive application of the sport’s fundamental skills). This Sixers edition has proven to be incapable in that respect with 40% of the season played out. The odds of 4-10 are greater than 10-4 given this collection’s track record of frequent belches and hiccups. It is
possible, of course, for “Eddie & The Cruisers” to rumble “uptown” in the next 14, but a continuation of bumps and detours in the season’s winding road seems
more likely.
Pete or Dannie…would either of you consider trading Iggy and Sammy for the expiring contract of McGrady? I heard it mentioned somewhere, can’t remember where but I thought I would throw that out there to you two.
Ed - That would be essentially blowing it up.
I’d prefer to trade Brand and Iguodala together. Brand’s contract is the biggest hindrance on the team right now. One because he isn’t the superstar, lead you to a championship type player AND because the coach doesn’t utilize him much so what impact he could provide is diminished.
I don’t mind Iguodala on a good team with a coach who is capable of reigning in his erratic offensive game and pushes him to focus more on defense AND he is playing alongside TWO better players.
While people hate Sam it’s frankly a mute point for me now. Trading him would have had to be done at least a year ago for it to make sense. Now he is actually growing in value as his contract continues to age towards completion. He will be at his most valuable this off-season and come next trade deadline. I’d save him to take advantage of that down the line.
I would only trade Iguodala if Stefanski and crew commit to a complete blow-up.
That means Brand is gone. Lou is gone. Sam is gone. Willie is gone.
Jrue is worth keeping. Thad and Speights are still young enough and worth keeping since they don’t make any money and can be solid bench players on a good team until they prove to be more complete players in my opinion.
And even still, there must be a real plan to bring in winning players if you do decide to nuke this team. I am not confident Stefanski knows how to do this and Eddie Jordan certainly is the wrong coach so he needs to go as well.
What sucks is they loaded up this team with expensive middling players at a time when elite young players will be testing the market.
I almost cried last night when Jason Smith hit his follow-up, his 3 & his hard-charging bump-and-fade in the lane. A better homecoming story has never been written. Maybe he’s meant to play in high altitude, near tall pine trees with boughs of snow, with friends & family fanning his flame. Nice, instrumental 8 minutes of work by the tall, former Colorado State Ram bruiser.
And “Hot Rod” Carney’s all-around focus and deep-sniping can’t go unmentioned as it played an important part in 3rd Q flurry. Good work.
A review of last night’s highlights wouldn’t be complete without mentioning Willie “The Wand” Green and his 6 assists in 21 minutes.
Dalembert’s fouling out in 19 minutes was “elite” stupidity. His bench contortions and exhortations are becoming more entertaining by the game though; seems to be enjoying himself.
Thanks Dannie.
I was just curious. I agree that it’s not worth blowing the team up if Stefanski and Jordan are going to be given the chance to ruin another group of talent, and I use that word lightly.
I also agree that at this point, Sammy’s contract is probably more valuable to hold on to than it is to trade but I figured if a team like Houston was going to give up 21 mil in McGrady’s expiring contract rather than just keeping him and using the space at the end of the year then they would at least want someone with expiring money coming either this year or next, thus Sammy. Personally, I don’t mind Sammy. How many teams really have a legit power center? 4 maybe 5 in the league? Sammy really is not that bad. I also agree with you that Iggy can be better if he has a coach who knows how to harness his talents and get Iggy to work on his weaknesses. But what bugs me about Iggy is that he is supposed to be a leader of this team but his words and actions are anything but that of a leader.
I guess it’s all a mute point as none of this will really happen but I was just curious of your thoughts.
Dannie, with our coach so concerned with players in the backcourt “making plays off the dribble” do you ever see the Iggy/Thad at the 2/3 ever being used again ? What is your take on A.I.!s play since his return from injury, could you compare it to A.Miller!s of last year? And finally, any interest in C.Butler? I believe his contract is up the same year as Sam and Willie. Oh yea, if Kapono isn!t going to be used [Carney ?] does he have value to a contender at the trade deadline?
suede, Based on performance, Miami & Toronto didn’t want Kapono; Sixers are lessening their use of him. Why would a contender be interested, especially at pro-rated 6 million dollar terms? 2-3 zones aren’t the puzzle in the playoffs. Does less than Korver as a player.
On a team that isn!t loaded with bad defenders like our Sixers he would have value, in my opinion. His size , to me, makes him better than Korver, though Korver played better team defense. I am not down on him as a player, except for his bad habit of pump faking a 3 and stepping in for a deep 2 , but if he isn!t going to get used might as well move him.
Don’t mean this as spam. You should read Derek’s post on Iguodala and his half court efficiency (or lack there of.) It reinforces some known weaknesses, but is a real eye opener. Just shows just how poorly suited he is to be the focal point of an offense. makes me feel more comfortable trading him given they likely won’t have the type of team he will thrive on (in a Pippen role) anytime soon:
http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2010-01-03/Mythbusters-Iguodala-the-Slasher
tk76, good stuff; I guess the Pippen comparisions are way out of line, if I recall he had a great first step and I never doubted he was a better decision maker. So what do I take from this , that a score is needed but not necessarily a sniper but any kind of scorer ?
Interesting batch of stats on Iguodala. Concluding label of “transition wing player” sounds about right. I’d like to know his shooting percentage, minus dunks.
suede, For a limited Bruin gunner, I’ll take Washington Bullets version of Don MacLean over Kapono in his prime [did he have one?] … but that’s academic.
I’ve been disgusted and completely against the Pippen comparisons on this blog forever.
Good stuff by Derek. Nice to have access to that level of data.
I’ll take similar/equivalent players with lesser contracts (shorter) to speed up the blowing up process.
I’ve said it many times, unlike some other people I am not confident in this roster with this coach or a better coach. I don’t like the mix of talent. I don’t like a lot of the raw talent. I don’t like the level of toughness and mental acuity of much of the roster.
And most importantly I don’t think there are many winners on this team.
suede, The key question on Kapono is could he beat Ed O’Bannon 1-on-1?
Suede – I doubt we see much of Thad/Iguodala at the wing together. Not a good mix of talent offensively. Neither are efficient jump shooters so it’s not like one can play off the other on penetration.
Thad has a better post game than Iguodala which in my opinion makes him a better long-term option at SF IF he can learn to rebounding and defend consistently. I never, EVER think he will be able to pass.
No complaints (out of the expected: defense) with AI. Every now and again he will pound the ball but hasn’t really been bad offensively. And I think he’s played under control and he has looked to pass more.
I second the motions of post 37. Let’s get the demolition party started!
Thanks Dannie.
I was just curious. I agree that it’s not worth blowing the team up if Stefanski and Jordan are going to be given the chance to ruin another group of talent, and I use that word lightly. >>
If it is not worth blowing up a team that is 9-23 and has so many weaknesses, what exactly are the alternatives? What are you hoping? We aren’t going to add Wade or Lebron to this team in the offseason with this payroll, even if they wanted to come here. You only really have two choices – blow it up quick or let it fizzle out over the next three years with expiring contracts? Either way you need to have a massive rebuild rebuild. So why wouldn’t you start right now of the opp presents itself?
Phillyfan – Ed and I aren’t say not to blow it up. Rather saying we rather the blow up
If Stefanski starts blowing shit up and looks for input from Eddie Jordan on the rebuild what is likely to happen? We end up like his “just not quite good enough” Wizards teams.
What’s the point of blowing it up if the same fools to built sculpted this roster are the same people putting together the future squad?
I’d feel much better if they had one player that had a chance to be a superstar. As it stands now they have a bunch of players who have a chance at being good complementary players (which is what Brand and Iguodala are right now.)
That does not mean you dump of all of the young players. But I agree with Dannie that I would not hesitate sending one or two away if that is the sweetener needed to get out from under Brand’s contract without taking back too much long term refuse. But they should find a taker for Iguodala’s contract without having to sweeten the deal.
All I want to know is what is the plan? That’s it. If I could sit down and talk with Stefanski I would only go in with one question.
What is the plan to make this team a contender?
From that I would just ask follow-up questions based on his responses. That’s it.
Because right now this team isn’t even a playoff team. So it’s not like he could sit there and say we are one piece away or BS like that. So what is the plan.
Are we just going to wait out the contracts we have?
Are we going to make moves over time?
Are we going for a massive blow up and rebuild?
There is no way you can like ALL the players on this roster, that’s just not realistic for any team for the most part let a lone a horrible team. What guys don’t fit the plan and what are you doing to get them out of here/get value for them?
What is the plan?
I don’t like losing or watching losing. BUT, I can tolerate top notch effort in a losing cause IF there is a well defined plan for turning things around.
Right now we aren’t getting any of that. Poor effort/inconsistent effort. No direction from up top. Bad direction from the coach. No plan for improvement outside of hoping a wishing young players develop into stars and complete players.
On a positive note I got this awesome Dr. J. t-shirt for Christmas.
If someone wants Igoudala, they have to take Brand. Do that and I’d be happy to throw in a Thad or Speights as a sweetener.
Ed R. (on your #19): I’m a firm believer that +/- is, hands down, one of the worst examples of how statistics can often completely misrepresent how a team or player is doing. If you can safely say, for a large number of times, that:
a. Player X could be playing terribly, and Team X is still playing a great game and winning.
b. Player X is playing phenominally, but Team X is losing and getting their asses kicked.
…this right there should spell the end of the formula. Unfortunately the statistic is a “vague” barometer, and does not at all take into account basketball as a team sport, and how individual cogs are always changing and moving in waves back and forth and any given point in a game. Sometimes a player DOES have direct impact on his team winning due to his play…other times not. Far too often individual play does NOT reflect accurately the amount of points a team scores, or if they are up/down in a game…I could write a 50 page essay on the +/-, fortunately I won’t bore people to death here more with my prattle about it.
Now I’m not saying it’s a “useless stat” completely…just that it gives very vague indicators, and that I think it errs on the side of vague/unreliable FAR more than it does solid evidence/reliable…thus I honestly don’t see the point in tracking it. I hate that ESPN added it to their main statistics.
Stat that should be changed: FG%. FG% has never reflected good “shooting”, as it can mean layup after layup, and doesn’t take into account the degree of difficulty with longer distance shots. If it were me, the category I think should be automatically added on every website:
2 pt FG% from 15-18 feet. We already keep track of 3′s. This is an iron clad stat that lets people know if someone is shooting well, or not well, from beyond the arc. But there are many players that have a high FG% but are TERRIBLE from 15-18 jumpshot territory (Iguadala, Andre), likewise there are good long range bombers that do not have a good midrange game. When we talk about “shooting” I think most people agree we mean from any sort of distance; Ive never understood why layups and in-the-paint shots from 1-5 feet away are thus included in the same category as those 15-20 feet away.
Dannie: That t-shirt kicks some ass, nice find.
Dave T – Shot location and efficiency is already tabulated. If you are interested check out hoopdata.com and NBA.com’s hot spots. The information is readily available.
FG% as a stat is perfectly fine. It just suggests whether a player is
If you want more granular detail you move on to advanced data and stats.
Not every stat needs to be advanced.
Advanced stats like eFG% (the real stat for shooting efficiency and impact), TS% (factors in free throws for total shooting ability) and PPS (scoring efficiency) expand on basic FG% and that data is regularly available.
@Dannie #44 post. There is no plan. They signed a coach who was cheap. They keep signing players who skills are limited. They paid way to much money for a PF who is playing better but we all know the future of this organization can not be centered around EB. Iwas excited when they signed him but at what cost. This team isn’t better with him starting or on the bench. Matter of fact they are worse off now than last season.
I would rather have iggy than Young. Young looks bad dribbling, his footwork is bad so he often travels on moves. His defense is horrendous and his passes are lazy. A nice complimentary player for a winning team. He’s too soft a player on a team that has no real toughness. As for this Princeton offense. Where are the cutters? Why were the Nuggets able to trap the Sixers right out of the lead? Didn’t EJ see this same trap at home Ai night? Dribble hand offs near the sidelines were getting trapped on every possession. His face during a timeout was priceless. He looked clueless. I got my vote for blowing this team up. One more vote for bringing in Tmac. If there is a fire ES and EJ petition going around put my name on it.
Dannie: I count my lucky stars every day for having access to Synergy. Although, to be honest, while the stats are wonderful, the broken down game tape is by far the best bonus.
Dannie, I have tried my best to make the pieces fit better and after reading D. Bodner!s Iggy stats it seems to me for this team to win here we have to a] get smarter as a team b] have Iggy be the 3rd leading scorer c] add toughness to this group. I don!t feel blowing it up is an option because Elton is unmoveable, so here it goes. Trade Thad for Morrow and M.Moore [exp. contract]. This frees up 1.9 mill. next year which will be used on draft night. On draft night [3 to 8?] we get either Johnson or Henry and trade for [J.Smith and fut. pick?] or buy at #20 to 30 first round pick and select the best big available [Monroe, Pittman, Sanders, Varnardo] that compliments Elton and Marreese. Assuming Kapono doesn!t opt out this would be next years depth chart.
Dalembert, Spieghts
Brand, Monroe
Iggy, Kapono
Henry, Morrow
Holliday, Williams
I want L.Will. out of here but , like Elton, don!t feel that is doable. With money tight I believe Sam and Willie will be allowed to just expire so our only chance is for Henry or Johnson to come here and be a J.Johnson level player and to get a coach that can do things right.
-Easily tradeable and will bring back value:
Speights, Young, Holiday
Tradeable but will bring back less value:
Iguodala, Williams
Hard to move, would have to sweeten the deal to get someone to take:
Kapono. Dalembert, Green
Would take a small miracle and diabetic inducing sweetener:
Brand
The other players are garbage.
AI isn’t garbage, but I left him out
He’s more of a heart consultant working pro-bono.
Suede – Mikki Moore was just cut to make room for Steven Hunter.
I am 100% all for trading Thad for Anthony Morrow. He is the best young shooter in the NBA by a wide margin and is ideal at SG with his size, willingness to rebound and he has the ability to defend better under the right coach and right system and he fills out his thin frame.
Depending on what underclassman come out of the draft there will be a lot of value at the end of the first round early second round for sure.
hmm so trade discussions have unofficially started. i will add one thing; i knowits impossible to move Elton Brand but if you want to rebuild, i think you do whatever you can to get him out, Iguodala, Speights, whatever it takes.
Iguodala’s contract is big but he has good value to us in the future as a potential lock down wing defender if we are envisioning a contending team of some sorts. not that he defends that well these days but I hope with him finding his place he can revert back to his rookie form. i think that part of his game is much harder to replace than the slasher-assist-playmaker king that every0ne is so eager to crown him as.
so moving him alone is CRAP!
Sammy’s contract is almost over so no need to trade him. he’s officially a sweetner.
Given all of the expirings they will have next year, maybe that will be the best time to trade Brand?
The “plan” idea is highly overrated in the NBA. There are no grand plans in the NBA. you get lucky and get one of the top players #1 overall who is the best to be available in about 10 years (see Jordan, Shaq and then LeBron) or you trade for one. then you build around him, which doesn’t take a brain surgeon. There are only 5-7 teams every year with a chance to win a title. They all have at least one superstar. Detroit is a possible exception, but they had 5-7 great players, even if none were considered a superstar. but that is about it. It is very rare. You have to have one dominant player to even have a plan. So that is the plan – do anything possible to get a dominant player and then build around him. For the sixers, the only possibility is to get rid of Iggy and hopefully Brand and then be god-aweful in two or three years and then HOPE there is a once every 10 year talent avaialble in the draft or via free agency.
brand is playing really well, if EJ would ever try to put him in at the same time with sammy/jrue/iggy/thad we might find something in terms of being able to run the floor and still have size to rebound. EB is playing well, he is scoring efficiently and alters shots inside. He doesn’t always look good doing it, but at least he plays decent defense.
Pretty sure Boston’s plan to get Ray Allen and KG worked out rather well. Team’s have plans. I bet every team has a plan, but what good teams need, what the Sixers don’t have are guys capable of executing a plan. Like Dannie and I both said yesterday, what good is a plan, what good is blowing it up and rebuilding if guys like Stefanski and Jordan are still here to put the plan together and then move forward with it. Neither of them has shown that they really has what it takes to get this moving in the right direction.
That being said, I would not trade Jrue or Speights. I love Thad Young but at this point I understand if he can help you move a huge contract or net a solid player better suited for this team then so be it. The biggest problem is, what if we trade a guy who fit’s Jordan’s system better but then can Jordan next year? Then what? Is that same guy going to be as effective for us with a new coach? I would hope so but you never know.
The key statement in all of this, and I don’t remember who said it, but they were absolutely right, this team needs to get smarter. And I would extend that to say more realistic. No more huge celebrations after you make a big shot, or win a game. You are 10-23. 13-games under .500 and a NBA doormat right now. Don’t act as if you are anything but that.
The Wild Bill Hickok Memorial Basketball Game is slated for tonight at the Wachovia Center. Halftime festivities will include entertainment from descendents of Buffalo Bill Cody and Annie Oakley. Washington D.C. special guests Gilbert “Agent Zeroing In” Arenas and Javaris “A Bet Is A Bet” Crittenton plan to honor the legendary frontiersman through a two-part harmony presentation of our national anthem while sittin’ around a makeshift campfire at center court, prior to their short pants battle with local revolutionaries, the Seventy-Sixers. The late Chuck Connors, former Boston Celtic and TV’s “Rifleman”, will also be remembered through a ceremonial fullcourt target practice. Fans wearing frontier/cowboy regalia will be admitted free and given a complementary coupon, good for one Roy Rogers Double-R-Burger and a holster of golden french fries.
Pretty sure Boston’s plan to get Ray Allen and KG worked out rather well.>>
You made my point. you need a superstar. Boston went from dreadful to champion in one year because they got a superstar, argulably 2 of them. Teams like Portland and Atlanta are nice little “plan” teams, with a core of good players. But do they have a chance at a title? No, because they have no dominant player. Sometimes I think that this board talks about a plan which would get us to be an Atlanta or Portland type of team. That is the upside folks – with Iggy and company + drafting in the 8-15 range every year. They will never be more that a 4 seed-ish. I would trade every single player right now for one superstar if we could.
How many “superstars” presently exist in NBA?
And who are they?
And are they attainable anytime soon?
Phillyfan – I’ll say this to you again. You are new here and much of what you are saying or trying to argue has been beat to death.
You aren’t enlightening anyone to the fact that you need an elite, HOF level player to really be in the mix for a title. I’ve written on this countless times.
To say “The “plan” idea is highly overrated in the NBA” is pretty ridiculous in my opinion and in fact by saying “So that is the plan – do anything possible to get a dominant player and then build around him. ” effectively contradicts yourself. You are running circles around your own initial statement.
While I believe the way you build a contender is to start with a franchise, HOF level player and build around him based on his strengths and weakness that isn’t necessarily the only way mainly because that is hard to do.
In fact, there are two different ways to build around a HOF, suck and hope to get lucky in the draft (see spurs, Duncan). Attempt to buy them (see Boston, KG, Allen). And yet another way is to be savvy enough to steal one (see Lakers, West snatching Kobe from New Orleans for next to nothing).
Detroit did it a different way. They have no clear cut HOF players on their two finals teams but they had 3 all-star level players and a perfect mix of talent, skills and coaching to make that work against the juggernaut that was the Shaq/Kobe lead Lakers.
All that suggests is there are plans to improve the team and build them up into title contention. So what I/we all are asking is for the Sixers brass to express what route they are taking because right now it looks like they don’t have a plan or idea what they are doing.
Make sense?
Available to the Sixers… none. Available to other teams, a few.
These players could be changing teams in the next 2 years:
Lebron
Carmello
Wade
Bosh
Amare
Boozer
Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Chris Paul
Some other players have contracts coming up in the next 2 years but likely will resign (but will be FA’s or RFA):
Kobe
Pierce
Dirk
Tony Parker
Durant
Yao
Duncan
KG
Deron Williams
… That represents 85% of all of the stars in the NBA. Of course hust becasue their contacts are up in the next 2 years does not mean they will be available… And certainly they will not be available to the Sixers, who will have 40->60% of their cap comitted to 2 non-superstars in Iguodala and Brand.
But no doubt a team with young assets and cap flexibility could remake their roster given all of the players who will be negotiating new deals in the new lower cap NBA (with a new CBA being negotiated.) But the Sixers have already committed their 160M to their “superstars.”
Personally I think Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge can get the Blazers the title if they get a little bit of health, maybe some better coaching. That team has been absolutely decimated with injuries this year and still they are 8 games over 500 in the west. I’d bet dollars to donuts that if the Blazers played in the East they would probably have the best record in the conference or darn close to it.
I’d take the Blazers plan any day of the week and be happy about it.
As for a plan…
Does not matter what course you chose. Every way requires the flexibility of young talent and cap flexibility. There may be many ways to build a contender. But if you go the Philly route of overpaying non-superstars to eat up a majority of your cap for a 5 year stretch you are certain not to contend. Very similar to what the bucks did when they overpaid Bogut and Redd.
JJG – To your question of “who are they and are they attainable any time soon” that seems to be a three prong question.
The answer to 3 is clearly no, but forget that for a moment.
Attempting to answer #2 would be nothing more than speculation.
But #1 is clearly a question with a clear answer:
2010 Free Agents I consider elite, All-star OR at least should be able to contribute highly to a championship level team:
Note: Guys from the above list with ETO or P next to there name means early termination option or player option. So if they don’t use their option this summer they become unrestricted in the summer of 2011 if they don’t sign an extension.
2011 Free Agents I consider elite, All-star OR at least should be able to contribute highly to a championship level team:
Note: R means restricted status.
Dannie, you should include guys like Paul, whose deals are up in 2 years. If it looks like they will not resign then they will be available by trade sort of like how Amare was on the trading block last year.
I only focused on players available this summer and next summer because as a fan that’s all I am willing to wait or think about right now. I’ll reassess in the summer of 2012.
I just think its more about players you target as opposed to who is a FA. Obviously FA’s are likely targets, but if you see a guy like Paul whose team knows he might walk in a few years then you have a good chance he will hit the trade market before he is a FA.
So basically I’m saying I expect Paul (and maybe others) will be available well before summer 2012. FA signings is not the only (or the best) way to utilize cap flexibility. I’d love to see the Sixers use their expiring contracts next year as part of a trade to land someone like Paul.
Not saying you can count on that type of move, just on of many possible options. You need to identify teams with top players who are over the tax and going nowhere and then try and steal away those players for expirings… you know, like teams should be doing to the Sixers in order to steal away Iguodala for nothing.
Unfortunately, the Sixers are sellers right now.
Dannie, about Morrow for Thad – not questioning who gets the better end of that deal (no time to break it down), but Thad has more perceived value than that. The general consensus is that Morrow is just a shooter, so that would seem like a steal for the Warriors in that they’re trading a role player for someone who can be more than that. So you’ve given up on the Thad-Iggy small forward-shooting guard combo? Why? What’ve you seen that’s told you it’s never going to work?
If Stefanski doesn’t plan on keeping Thad, I think now would be a great time to trade him, I’m not sure his stock can get any higher. I think Stefanski has been the 2nd least active new GM ever; first place definitely goes to Brad Greenburg. I wish he would make some sort of meaningless trade (Royal Ivey + Carney for Jordan Farmar) , just to show that he CAN do something. This guy can’t even get 2nd round picks, jeez… I mean, wouldn’t a 2nd round pick be cheaper than an Ivey or Carney? Marcus Thornton only makes $400K a year!
I think Ed has been plenty active. He had three major signings his first summer and a trade last summer.
Zack – Simple response to your question…
I personally am not a Thad supporter and never was on that bandwagon. I think he is a cupcake, one-dimensional bench player/role player with SOME upside.
If his perceived value is higher than give me Morrow and a pick. But I think you are underestimating Morrow’s perceived value as well.
While I think Morrow definitely a shooter, I think he has the ability to be more than than on a team where he is allowed to do more. He doesn’t get shots because Curry, Ellis, Maggette are all gunners. He CAN shoot off the dribble and his spot up game is already at elite level.
His rebounding numbers aren’t that far off from what Thad is producing as as a SF/PF now.
About the Iguodala/Thad wing situation, I never thought that would be successful unless one of them becomes a very good shooter. I don’t believe Iguodala will ever become an above average jump shooter, Thad might but I am not holding my breathe. I like Thad’s post game right now, he already has a very clear go-to move, now he needs to develop a counter for when teams stop defending him stupidly by allowing him to easily turn and shoot over his right shoulder. He can develop that for sure with recognition and good development coaches.
I don’t think he will ever be a passer or strong face/up, dribble drive player as a 100% SF, so in that respect I think his upside is limited.
At the end of the day I think we can do much much better than an Iguodala/Thad wing situation long-term and I don’t think together they would ever be strong enough to put this team in contention for a title.
Either trade Iguodala for an elite wing player OR send Thad to the bench/or trade him and get a player that fits better with Iguodala in the starting line-up.
TK76 – I actually think you might be overestimating the likelihood of an elite player (in his prime) being traded before they expire.
Teams just don’t do it and that is always the absolute last resort if it’s even a consideration at all.
When was the last time an elite player, in his prime changed teams via trade because the home team thought the player would walk (not because the team didn’t want him anymore)?
You mentioned Amare but he is still in Phoenix and it was only hearsay that he was really available via trade. Bosh is still in Toronto. That’s why I asked when has something actually went through.
Teams clam up when it comes to trading franchise players because as we know very well they don’t come around too often.
Thanks for explanation, Dannie … clearly cast. Strong and interesting list of potential obtainables.
In order to become true contenders, it seems that Sixers cap space quandary has only one difficult out, beyond “wait it out” (risking further civic support erosion): find takers (by any personnel exchange arrangement) for both Iguodala & Brand. But what self-preserving GM would discard his 2 grand signings of summer of ’08, admitting design failure in the process to the public and to his corporate bosses? Sixers have been boxed in by Stefanski/front office miscalculations. Too clever by half, as the saying goes. A rubik’s cube of an outlook sits on the organization’s table.
I try and be fair to E.S. All of the 2008 summer signing were horrible, especially now that the cap is headed down:
Brand, Iguodala, Okafor, Arenas, Magette, Baron and Deng were all bad contracts that will hurt their teams in the long run. The only signing that worked out was Josh Smith, and he was the riskiest and had the most brinkmanship.
But just because E.S.’s miscalculation is understandable does not make it excusable or acceptable. We are supposed to have a G/.M. that outperforms his peers, not another lemming jumping off the finatial cliff.
Of course with his mortgage backround this all seems somewhat expected. He paid top dollar for used property on the assumption that the market would always go up and he could always flip his purchase later.
It’s come to this: I was laughing at the absurdity of the Sixers celebrating their ragged 10th win in Denver. All that was missing was Freddie Mercury’s belting of “We Are The Champions.”
its funny, the Sixers finally get a win and we start talking about how efficiently the team can be blown up.
guess it’s reached that stage already. seems they can only get worse at this point.
not cool.
Dannie, I get Morrow’s “perceived” value from what I’ve read, not from what I’ve seen – again, the general consensus is that he’s just a “shooter”, and only in this area (Bay area) are people more aware of what he’s capable of, generally speaking. The Sixers would get ripped for a Morrow for Thad trade.
I just finished watching a replay of the game – I enjoyed the win, as I do 99% of Sixer wins, but I gotta say one negative thing first: Lou takes FOREVER AND A DAY to make a basketball decision; this killed me in this game, and in the Clippers game on New Year’s Eve. And when it’s not his turn to shoot in the offense, he usually doesn’t do anything productive off the ball.
Onto the positive: hey Sixers, great win, keep it up against the Wizards!
+ Some really good minutes for Jason Smith; there was that one rebound where Nene DIDN’T steal it away from him, and there were those screens he set for Willie – baby steps for #14, woo-hoo!
+ Elton Brand showed that he can still be a weapon on this road trip, I’m happy for him and this development.
+ After watching shot after shot by Iguodala, Lou and Iverson where they’re not set and are fading/leaning in one direction when they shoot, it was great to see Willie NOT do that on his shots.
+ After his performances in Sactown and in this game, Carney deserves more minutes – great spot-up 3-point shooting by the guy, I wanna see how long he can continue this hot streak!
+ Lastly, how dependable is Jrue Holiday? Every time he gets into the game, you can almost always count on better overall play from the team. I think we’re seeing his “floor” this season – solid, not spectacular, point guard play.
Dannie – perhaps I am new to the board and rehashing old arguments. But it also gets a bit old reading 15 posts about whether Thad can be a good wing man. In the context of building a Champion, thad is maybe an 8-10 guy off the bench. He is a dime a dozen in this league. Hey, I am not against the discussion, but I am not sure how much it can be discussed. I think it is a bit naive to think the front office will communicate to its fans its “plan”. First, that is bad business. You don’t want the competition to know what you want to do – it kills leverage. LA didn’t advertise before plucking Kobe from charlotte. Boston didn’t tell the fans two years before getting KG and making that blockbuster draft day trade to prepare the fans. It just happens, pretty much out of the blue.
i think Morrow for Thad is fair enough. each team gives up a talented player at a position log-jammed already. Morrow fits better here because; a) he is an awesome shooter
if tahts not reason enough
b) he can at least dribble
c) he CAN play SG and leave Iguodala back at SF.
i think he has good athleticism, ok defense, dunno if he is a starter yet.
the same way i dunno if Thad is a starter yet.
i’d say that trade is fair game.
Zack, read my trade more closely; the Sixers have NO money, and Morrow makes 1 mill. and Thad makes 2.9 mill. next year. So by getting an expiring contract the Sixers acquire another 1st rounder and get a big. Now if you think Thad is worth more than Morrow and say, Pittman or Sanders or Cousins or Monroe, than we can agree to disagree. The scary part, as tk has pointed out recently is they may have to cut salary to get under the luxury tax. If they move down in the draft to save money I would be furious!!
Dannie (right?), I was countering you saying I was undervaluing Morrow’s perceived value, which I didn’t think I was.
Great stuff by you and tk at depressedfan, btw. I think one thing the discussions aren’t taking into account is how much the lower salary cap and poorer economy are going to affect championship building (disclaimer: I mostly skim the site, often just reading commenters I follow, so it may have been discussed already).
tk76, fair enough about Stefanski being active. It’s just that I was thinking back to when new GMs have taken over – they usually push the reset button and give the franchise a makeover.
dssuede: Morrow’s contract is up after this season, I am assuming that bcos he was an undrafted rookie, he is thanking his lucky stars for being allowed to play in the NBA and wont ask for much when it comes time to re-up?
and i am guessing there are no takers for Jason Smith?
for the impending cap year of 2010-11, he may turn out to be our own version of Willie Green; a player that doesn’t make too much but bcos of his production is criticized for his disproportionate contract.
Zack – It hasn’t been the focal point of the discussion but I don’t think it will have much impact because for the most part it impacts all teams equally. The soft cap and the difference between that number and the luxury tax number is the same for all teams.
Championship building doesn’t change, how much individual players will be paid and how much money teams can afford to pay (based on how the economy is impacting their revenue) will change. But how you got about building a winner remains the same. You need an elite player and quality players that fit around him. The cost of each player will be lower relative to previous salary but on par with other players under the lower salary cap and economic climate.