Only reason I added this game to my ticket package was to watch O.J. Mayo. He was my favorite player in the draft because I thought his game made him one of, if not the, most complete player right away (you already know my feeling on potential).
He can handle the rock, shoot both off the dribble and in catch-and-shoot situations, he is a strong defender, a decent passer, has pretty good size for a shooting guard and can help out at the point as well. He has been okay this season so far averaging 19 points on 44.5% from the field, 38.5% from the three, 87.2% from the line, 4 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal and 2.5 turnovers per game in 37 minutes. And he is only 21.
I fully expected the Sixers to win this game easily and even more so considering the injuries that have plagued the Grizzlies recently. Key players out for Memphis:
- Rudy Gay (hip)
- Kyle Lowry (ankle)
- Darrell Arther (personal reasons)
There is a chance Lowry could play as he is listed as day-to-day. But reports are he will just sit out return after the All-Star break.
So the Sixers will be facing a starting line up that looks like this:
- Mike Conley
- O.J. Mayo
- Quiton Ross
- Hakim Warrick
- Marc Gasol
Should be a lock right? Accuscore thinks so, making the Sixers an 85% favorite, and the books are spotting the Griz 11 tonight.
Nothing really scares me about this game except effort level. On a bad night for the Sixers they should win this game. But if they come out sluggish, overlooking this team going into the All-Star break, they could be in for a dog fight. Although Memphis isn’t all that good, they do play hard. They do have some talent. And the Sixers don’t want to let them gain any confidence at all in this game.
Three things the Memphis Grizzlies do well…
- Defensive rebound (8th in defensive rebounding %)
- Get to the foul line (7th in FT made / FGA)
- Force turnovers (8th in opponents turnover %)
The one thing to take comfort in going into tonight’s contest is the fact that the Grizzlies do not shoot the three well at all, which is something that has been a problem for the Sixers. Unless Memphis has an extraordinary performance shooting the ball from distance or Mayo goes crazy, I can’t see how the Sixers don’t cover the spread.
But I will say this about the Grizzlies, they have been playing some decent ball lately winning 4 of their last 5 after losing twelve straight. And they’ve done so in both high-scoring and low-scoring games.
For me personally I just want an O.J. Mayo show with the Sixers taking the victory. When I am at games I like them to be competitive. But all signs point to a Sixers’ rout.
Sixers vs. Grizzlies Game Notes
What did I say!? If you let this team hang around, gain some confidence, they could make this a dog fight. And that is exactly what happened. The Sixers looked like they were sleepwalking through most of the game. Andre Miller did his best to keep things in line, but man, they really played this game like they didn’t want to win it until the last few possessions.
Andre Iguodala didn’t start playing until the 4th quarter. Honestly I barely could tell he was on the floor until the last period. And his stat line reflects that. 3 boards, 3 assists and 0 steals. That isn’t what we are accustomed to seeing from him. He really just didn’t seem completely in the game until late.
I read some comments about him shutting Mayo down, and that isn’t accurate. For one you are giving one individual far TOO MUCH credit. Mayo actually blew by him twice to start the game but missed both reverse lay ups. The rest of the game the Sixers actually did a fantastic job defending the pick, mainly the Sixers big men. They really showed high on those screens forcing Mayo away from the basket and giving the guards enough time to get back in position to continue defending the play. This limited the need to switch and therefore didn’t give Mayo many mismatches with having to defend him on the perimeter.
Also the Sixers had very active hands forcing 22 turnovers, 10 coming from steals. One thing I noticed with Mayo and Conley (11 combined turnovers) is they don’t make the right type of pass on pick-and-rolls. They always try to make an over head pass, instead of the much more effective bounce pass. Those passes were deflected and stolen by the Sixers on many occasions.
Umm, what the hell happened to rebounding the ball? Getting out-rebounded 43-26 and 14-5 on the offensive end is utterly ridiculous. And aside from Theo who had 5 boards in only 10 minutes this was a collective piss poor effort on the boards. I don’t know what is going on with Thad’s rebounding, but he is getting destroyed on the boards. Dileo had to remove him from the game because he was a spectator every time a shot went up. Warrick got three straight follow up dunks while Thad was twiddling his thumbs just watching the action. 33 minutes and 2 boards for a starting PF Thaddeus Young. I hope the people that think him playing the 4 is a good idea are paying attention. I never thought it was a good idea. No reason to believe it is now either.
Speaking of Hakim Warrick he sure put on a show for his hometown crowd. That between-the-legs fake on Thad and flush was just nasty. 31 points and 8 boards for the kid from Friends Central.
Old weaknesses were in full effect tonight. Sixers shot 2-11 from three (my favorite player on the team, Royal Ivey, hit them both), and they were 15-24 from the line. Just a dog of game played tonight for the Sixers. Thank god for Andre Miller’s 24 point, 9 board effort (6-6 from the line).
This is becoming a regular appearance in my game notes: Lou continues to stink. At least he had 4 assists and 1 turnover today. But again you see Ivey on the floor late in games for his defense, spot-up shooting and good decision making. Hopefully the All-Star break gets Lou out of whatever kind of funk he is in.
If Rudy Gay played, the Sixers surely would have lost. All Memphis needed was one more scorer on the floor because the Sixers showed little desire to play defense outside of the last two defensive possessions.
Hat tip to Sammy for stepping up and getting a key block after Warrick blew by Thad for the 10th time tonight. If he wasn’t there or didn’t get a clean block or fouled Warrick, it was an easy dunk or free throws to tie the game with 16 seconds left.
27-24 going into the break. They were 23-30 last year at this point. I’ll have a couple posts in the coming days off to spark some conversation.
Next Game: Tuesday the 17th at Indiana
Thanks for the preview Dannie. I have been wathching the Sixers games with my Brother in law who just moved here from Greece. He is a huge basketball fan in europe, so naturally he is a huge nba fan. The other day he goes, “I hate Lou Williams” and I asked why and he said that it looks like he is the only guy on the sixers who is playing for himself.
So true. He has a managable contract, and I’m sure that his value league wide is high. We should DEAL Lou and get back a real sg. One who actually hits treys.
Checking out some mock drafts and I see that Lawson and Calathes will be in our are of picking. The great thing about Calathes is that he would step right in for Lou and have that great chemistry with Speights. Plus he would be a better shooter and passer from day one.
I want to see 30 minutes from Speighty-Man tonight! Release the beast
There will be a big reunion of Philly guys: Lionel Hollins, Henry Bibby, Greg Buckner, Kyle Lowry, Hakim Warrick, etc.
Lately the Grizzlies have been good defensively, we just have to make sure we jump right on them before they develop such confidence . There have been teams that turn it around and then they start playing the spoiler role nicely while remaining competitive. So we must break their spirits tonight!
All in all though, Sixers win, hold the Mayo!!
GO SIXERS!!
I always thought Hollins would make a good coach, as a player he always seemed under control. I will be watching M.Conley tonight, for some reason I think he may end up a Sixer over the summer. Dannie, I am also a Mayo fan because of the way he defended his last year in college, he didn!t let his big rep get in the way.
The Greek,
The only problem I have in dealing Lou, is that he is best friends with Speights. They may be able to grow and develop together and you can clearly see their chemistry on the court. Lou gets annoying though. He is taking shots that I fully expect for him to miss. If I see him wind up for a contested 3 at the end of the quarter one more time…..
I do agree that Calathes would be a good fit here. I want him over Lawson. Ty just hasn’t done enough to impress me over his college career. I keep saying this, Watch out for Tyrese Rice out of Boston College. Maybe in the late second round we could get him. He is a great shooter.
What is up with Thad? I guess DiLeo had finally seen enough after Warrick barreled down the lane untouched and got an offensive rebound putback basket for the 3rd time in the quarter, because he finally replaced him with Speights. Inexcusable. On the replays you could see Thad just standing there watching the ball instead of boxing out, which is a cardinal sin. If Thad put a body on Warrick, we’d be up by around 16 instead of only 8 at the end of the first.
Looks like a lot of guys are already off for the all-streak break …
oops, all-star break
the greek – is your name a reference to The Wire?
FREE THROWS!!!! theres 16.5 seconds left but this game should’ve been over with 30 seconds left. we keep missing free throws!!!
Iggy shut Mayo down in the first half and again with the game on the line. What other center, other than maybe D.Howard, could double the ball up top and recover to block a layup. Sammy, we get on you when your bad, I!d like to say, great job tonight. By the way, he tied one of my favorite Sixers in career blocks tonight,C .Jones. As bad as the final score was, Memphis ?, it was good to see them win by getting stops at the end, which is what good teams do. By the way, was that Doc on the other team? Warwick looked real good.
I will be interested to see Dannie’s analysis of this game.
The Andre’s and D-Bear won us this game. That Defense on Mayo was great at the end by Iguodala. He managed to stay in front of him and swipe at the ball and make Mayo uneasy. Free throws would have made this an easy win if we could make them.
Iguodala received some criticism after he celebrated when making a shot against the Celtics. I think this game proves that Iguodala was just astatic in the moment of beating the Best Team in the League Celtics. Tonight, not once did he get overconfident and celebrate early. He made big shots down the stretch and remained focused on winning the game. Unfortunately that focus didn’t help him make his free throws.
Jay Wright was very good on postgame live. Possibly tied for the 5th seed at the break, can!t get much better than that.
Pete: I have a feeling other teams have thought the same when we trot out a lineup of Ivey, Willie Green, Reggie Evans, Speights, Theo Ratliff, and have success. Always amazes me sometimes how the sheer energy of role players can give a team the spark they need at a given time.
Been home for a bit but had to watch UNC beat up on Duke.
Guest – I gotta image Ty impressed you today in the 2nd half (19 points). He won the game for them by dominating with his penetration.
Dannie, I don!t know where you were sitting but did you see the Buckner,Ivey exchange fighting for a rebound. Royal outfought him and started a brake, he is the E.Snow,attitude wise on this team.
Suede – That play was right in front of us. Ivey is scrappy. Buckner had the board up top and Ivey could have easily just conceded and start running back down court. But as soon as Buckner brought the ball down a little Ivey ceased control and simply wanted it more. My favorite player on this team easily.
ivey is also the guy in the middle of the circle during pregame intros who raps at everyone getting them all riled up
Dannie – your analysis as usual is on the mark, but I find it amazing you could write 12 paragraphs about this game without even mentioning that Iguodala came through BIG TIME at the end of the game. He scored on 4 straight possessions in crunch time, did he not? I know most of the posters in this forum can’t stand him, but you’ve got to start giving him credit for his excellence at the ends of games, right?
Couple thoughts…
Sammy great final play was talked about a lot and already posted just wanted to give props since in the past I have been very critical.
A Miller proved tonight that without him this team would be lost. He scored a ton tonight and on a lot of Iggy 4th qt points he made very nice dishes.
Speaking of Iggy, I dont want to sound too critical since he did hit some big shots down the stretch but what is it with this All Star talk he has played like a border line all star for prob 2 months and played like a total scrub for 1 month. The coaching staff is already lobbying for next year. Just get wins, I liked though after he hit the go ahead bucket he did not celebrate as he did with the Celtics game.
Royal Ivey is just what we needed he can be our Bruce Bowen off the bench his and Iggy’s defense on the Griz backcourt at the end of the game lead us to victory and he hits those corner 3 like Bowen.
This would have been a terrible loss, so thank god they pulled it out.
Must have been the Sixers night I played NBA 2k9 for PS3 online tonight and came back from 23 down to beat the Magic
credit quinton ross for shutting down iguodala for the first 3 quarters. dude can defend. and for some reason i don’t think he played at all in the 4th.
2one5, I think us losing A.Miller would be worse than Detroit losing Billups. One move I!d like to see is a young 2 guard added at the deadline, nothing else, and J.Smith,L.Will. and a future pick is enough amo to do it, I believe. Come on E.S., answer that phone. Good night all.
Ima Guest – Not a huge Iguodala fan that is well known. I agree he made some shots late and I gave him one line in the post saying he showed up in the fourth quarter. How big those shots are is up for interpretation. We are talking about a close game against one of the worst teams in the NBA. Not sure I categorize that in the big shots bin. None the less as I said he showed up in the fourth quarter. The problem: had he showed up in the first three quarters and didn’t shoot 4-7 from the line we wouldn’t have needed any late game heroics right?
He always talks about himself being this complete player. Does everything. Whatever the team needs him to do. Well I respond by saying complete players play full games. Doesn’t mean you have to score, but you have to have an impact all game. Typically what we see from him is the exact opposite of tonight. He plays a great 3, sometimes 3 and a half quarters and is terrible late. Tonight he was relatively non-existent for 3 quarters and played well in the last portion of the game. I am not the one to simply ignore that for a couple shots against a crappy team late. But I will try to be a bit less biased and give a bit more credit when it’s due for equality sake.
Andre Iguodala is becoming an All-Star before our very eyes. Yes, he did not have a great game overall, but he came through when it mattered the most!! The game winning layup and the game winning denial on the defensive end! This guy could be our closer and guys like Miller (and a healthy Brand) can be our secondary closers. The Andres really run the show and do what it takes to win the games. Well, the Sixers can take a break now and will hopefully continue this stellar run!! And now Mr. Miller, you can sleep for 4 straight days!!
Iggy, you should go to Phoenix and just be a fan for the weekend’s festivities and get some more one-on-one advice from your buddy Kobe. If he can learn how to be a great competitor from him, then it can open up many things for Iggy.
Tell me, will you guys be watching the All-Star festivities? I know I am, especially the Rookie Sophomore Challenge. Well, it’s the only time where we can really sit back and really relax in the NBA world, especially the Sixers realm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYEiAdXPMLk&feature=related
GO SIXERS!!
Dannie: In the credit where it is due file, after his atrocious start Igoudala has been playing the best ball of his career, in my opinion. He is impacting all aspects of the game, and making his teammates better.
Dannie I totally agree with you about Iggy, I hate it when he always talks about what a complete player he is, it seems like such a cop out. You are completely right a complete player does not disappear for three quarters. Also, the Nets game a complete All Star player could have got a steal, a block, hit a jumper, dished for an open lay up.
I don’t hate Iggy at all and really like the way he has played lately but this talk for the last two weeks about him being an all star and how great he is playing is getting annoying I dont think he is even close this year to being an all star.
After Iggy’s drive down left side of lane, past beefy Gasol, up and good with left-handed bank shot late in game, “Brian Fellows”/Tracy Morgan said, “That’s CRAZY!!”
The post-selection “next year All-Star” commentary re Iguodala by DiLeo and others within the circle is an attempt to partially cover for honcho Ed’s summer finance mistakes. Maybe if Andre pumped less iron (for aesthetic appeal) his shot would be softer and he’d handle a little better.
Hakim Warrick did a fine Spencer Haywood imitation last night. And Snortin’ Sam embodied the spirit of 1973 Sam Lacey on that important block of his left side dunk attempt, cancelling the upset.
Iguodala had a horrible playoffs, signed a crazy deal and then started with a horrible November . This caused a lot of people got down on him.
But since December 1st (34 games) he has put up 20/6/5.5, 2 steals on 51% shooting and nearly 1.4 pts/shot leading a team surging towards the playoffs (winners of 10 of their last 14.)
He is not a natural scorer like most other stars, and he is not a superstar. Iguodala is asked to be the #1 offensive weapon for a team that lacks shooters and a post presense. He thrives despite probably being miscaast (or becuae of ?) Recently he has even shown the ability to perform in the clutch (and per a recent 82games article has done as well as most stars in game winning situatons over his career.)
I’m not denying Iguodala’s flaws or petulance. I just feel the need to stand up for what he has done. On a team of players with great potential, he has well exceeded my expectations. Can yoou name a better player over the age of 21 who has never been an all star?
Also, I listed his stats over the last 34 games, but if you go all the way back to the AI trade in 12/06, he has been a 19/5.8/5.5, 2 stl, 46% and 1.35 pts/shot and a plus defender as the best player on a winning team.
He deserves some of the criticism, but also the praise. As I said, name a better player over 21 who has never been named an all star?
While equally unorthodox, Sixers’ other Andre is a better basketball player, especially with chips down and on table.
From Motown: Free Press writer Vince Ellis’ Iverson “mid-term grade” - C/ “Although he leads Pistons in scoring, Iverson hasn’t been A.I. while in a Piston unform. Though still one of the quickest guys around, he has lost that turbospeed. He has trouble finishing around the basket and has been getting caught in the air, leading to turnovers.”
Dannie – agree that Iguodala did not play a complete game last night, disagree entirely that he has been “terrible late.” If you do a fair analysis of his play over the last six weeks or so, you’d probably be surprised how many times he’s come up big down the stretch of games, even in losses. In fact, other than the Nets loss that 2one5 mentioned, you’d be hard-pressed to come up with a single close game in the last 20 games or so in which Iguodala hasn’t made a positive impact at the end of the game. Case in point, the Sixers are 15-6 in their last 21, 2 of the losses were blowouts, and in 3 of the other 4 losses, Iguodala hit the tying or go-ahead basket with under a minute left (the situations in which he is supposedly terrible). Anyhow, no need to be less biased (you are a fan, not a reporter), but I do wonder if Young or Speights had put up that last two minutes how orgasmic with excitement some of the responses would have been …
Speights had a double major at Gainesville: Practice and Games. I’d package him right now for an accomplished scoring PF like Amare.
Guest, in the big picture we can’t be worrying about friendships. Yeah Dannie, Lawson was terrific last night. He is the fastest pg around, and he is draining treys this year. Guest I urge you watch him and imagine what our fast break would look like with him. It would make for some great times!
Pete, no dude. The wire is suprisingly one of the few shows on hbo that i never followed through. I know its great right, thats what everyone says.
Ima guest – Can you actually come up big in a loss? Big suggest a win right? Otherwise it’s just a bit short or “big.”
Also, recent results haven’t been disputed here. We all acknowledge he has played well as of late. When I talk about a player I will make sure to denote a specific time period if being specific. If I don’t it means I am referring to the entire history the player.
So you point to 6 weeks as your defense for Dala. That’s fine. I could just as easily point to the biggest games of his career (Detroit series) and say he has come up disproportionately smaller therefore out-weighing recent results. It’s all about how you want to look at it. I won’t do either. I will look at it all and come to my conclusion which is he is still very unproven in big game and late game situations as a whole. But a nice player. Need to see him in more playoff games to really determine if he is a franchise keeper (not player, keeper there is a difference).
TK76 – I don’t think there is a clear cut player over 21 that is better than Iguodala. But here are three guys in the arena that I am sure you could find someone that will argue with you on:
And I don’t think I would take any of these particular players over Iguodala at the moment if you say just pick the best player regardless of team fit.
all this criticism of Iggy stems from his ridiculous contract. before that it wasnt this neagtive. well thats expected. I just wish ppl wud not talk bout him like he was just another dude wit stats; he is the BEST player on our young team(with Brand MIA). at least acknowledge that and stop talking bout Thad will eventually be better or Speights or some cat we dunno bout.
Miller might make the big shots for us but he’s not exactly the other team’s defensive game plan focus. don’t get me wrong Iggy is not that good to be the focus but he is the man for this team and so he needs to deliver. Miller doesnt have that demand. though he comes through pretty well. we’ve seen what increased demand for scoring does to him (Detroit)
Mike: So it was Ross… i was wondering who was blanketting him like that , he barely got off his first shot attempt for bout 5 mins.
Dannie: Iggy played very good D on Mayo. he seemed focused on that anyway. he had some help, but the notion that anyone can just play shut down defense on any decent player is just absurd. apart from Bowen, who also gets help from the Spurs collective defense, its almost completely impossible these days for any player with semblance of effort on any other aspect. Your expectations are too high. Whaddyu think he is…besides I don’t think he is delusional enough to think its that easy.
I’ll take the Jazz’s fourth-year point Deron Williams, who still hasn’t been an all-star but is one of the league’s best at his position. He controls the game the way a “1″ should. I picked him third-team All-NBA in last season’s voting.
The issue about Iguodala being an all-star next year is how Brand will fit into the picture. If a coach defers to Brand too much, as Cheeks did, Iguodala’s numbers will reflect it, as they did this year, and the so-so record won’t help, either.
About the (lack of rebounding): The worst the Sixers had been beaten on the boards was nine before getting hammered 43-26 last night. It was 14-5 on the offensive glass, when Sixers seemed to almost never get a body on their man.
Dannie - fair point about Iguodala being unproven in big games, if you define big games as playoff games. However, my rebuttal (such as it was) was in response to your assertion that Iguodala is usually good early, terrible late. Well, in the Detroit series, 4 of the 5 games were blowouts, and in most of the games Iguodala wasn’t good at any point (and there was no close game to disappear “from”). Hence, I didn’t get the impression you were talking about the Detroit series, I thought you were making a more specific comment about his play in close regular season games. And we can debate the semantics of whether it is possible to come up “big” in losses, but what should not be disputed is that in the last six weeks Iguodala has been anything but “terrible late.” tk76 – does Deron Williams fit your criteria?
Hey Tom,
Question… How much better does Brand realistically make this team? For the sake of argument, let’s say he comes back from his injury better than ever. Does he make us competitive with Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando (in a playoff series)? This assumes we re-sign Andre Miller and the team is effectively the same as this year’s team.
If the answer is, “no, we still won’t really be able to compete with those teams”, then shouldn’t he be traded for a shooting guard. After all, isn’t the lack of a top notch shooting guard the real reason this team isn’t considered a legitimate threat for an Eastern Conference championship? Maybe I’m wrong, which is why I value your opinion… but can’t we get by pretty well with Thad and Marreese manning the PF position on this team (assuming they continue to progress at the rates we’ve seen)?
AHHH I just assumed Deron has been an All-Star already without checking into it too much. I am with Tom I take Williams all day over Iguodala for a ton of reasons.
Ima Guest – I would define big games as playoff games and regular season games later in the season that are must-win type situations in order to get into the playoffs. That would be the final game of the regular season or the final two weeks worth of games if a team is say 5 games out and must win them all or 90% of them to even have a shot. You can also lump in games along the same lines against playoff teams either right above or below you late in the season where positioning matters.
If the goal is first to get in the playoffs, then win a playoff series, then win a conference finals then win the Finals what else could be considered? Playing against Boston or the Lakers I would consider big “media” games and that is only if the Sixers are even on the same level.
Iguodala’s career is still very young in my opinion with regards to big games. The Detroit series is the clearest set of circumstances with which to judge him in that regard. So it’s hard to overlook and way most people point to it when talking about his big game ability.
Also, late game and big game situations are different in that there are close games all the time. The difference for me is the magnitude. There are a ton of close games and last minute shots and situations. Great to really good players do two things….
The Detroit series he failed to play well at all which contributed greatly to his team getting blown out in many of those loses and not even having a chance to win it late. I think that is important to note as well.
Look I think Iguodala is a fine player. But if Stefanski and the Sixers believe having him (with or without Brand) being your highest paid, centerpiece player is enough to win a championship I think they are fooling themselves.
What’s your take?
Jkay: Gotta disagree with your comment about individual defense. “It’s rare to find guys that can absolutely lock down on a player on one one, except for a guy like Bruce Bowen,”…well, I’d argue that almost every team has about 1-2 guys that CAN lock down guys at a 2nd-4th all NBA defense type of level (I’m aware there are only two all-defense teams, but am just making the point for an analogy). Most teams have a Quinton Ross/George Lynch/Junkyard Dog type of guy that they can toss in. What’s more rare is the ability to find a player of that caliber of defense, that is good enough on the offensive end to warrant keeping in the game.
I think Dannie’s point is that Iguodala, in his first 2-3 years in particular with the Sixers, showed himself to be a very, VERY good defender, that was starting to get we fans really excited because given his body type (6’6, muscular, extremely athletic and quick), he started to show the potential of someone that could be one of the best wing defenders/two way players in the league in a few years. Unfortunately, since his offensive role has picked up, Iggy has really lost steam in this department.
Not that he’s a “bad” defender now; far from it, and he’s still good on any given night, especially given the fact he’s always covering the league’s best scorers. But his defense has definitely slid since his earlier years. And IMO, if Kobe, through sheer hard work and putting extra time in the gym to stay in amazing shape, can be a great defensive player with the offensive load he carries, why can’t Iguodala? Iguodala has the potential (that nasty word again) to be one of the best two way SF’s in the game…so I understand frustration over seeimg him not achieve that.
Iguodala the “all star”: Not saying he won’t be in the next few years at some point…but as far as how things stand right now? I’d choose both Al Jefferson (pre-ACL injury) and Kevin Martin over Iguodala in a heartbeat. Just my .02, but Al Jefferson’s growth in his back to the basket offensive game and old school big man footwork the last three years is nothing short of phenominal.
And I used to kinda think Kevin Martin was overrated until I really started keeping close tabs on his box scores and checking him out in games more often…he’s really turned into a top flight, great NBA #2 option. He has a swagger and confidence about him he never used to posess, and can basically “I’m going to score now” and do just that. His ability to score in quick bursts is special, and the way he moves off the ball and comes off screens is right up there with Reggie and Rip.
Portland “seeking to acquire veteran PG”: I’ve seen this on about four different NBA news sites. I think the quote is from “an NBA executive”, which means it should be taken with a giant grain of salt. But, if it is true, I’m curious if people think Stefanski has quietly been in conversation with Portland asking about combinations of their players, perhaps Bayless + Outlaw + smaller fish to make salaries meet (for A-Miller, obviously)?
Once again, I’m not saying I would agree with that trade or not, I’m just curious what other people would think about a swap like that, or if A-Miller is a player people think Pritchard would covet. I’m much more of a veteran PG type of guy, and think A-Miller is pretty much the MVP of our team and the reason we succeed. But his age is increasing, and he can’t shoot. The chance of acquiring a young talent like Jerryd Bayless that is a big time shot maker, can light it up from beyond the arc, and is hungry as all hell after barely playing all year is certainly an intriguing long term move going forward. Just speculation though.
Bski: Ramon Sessions does it again!!!
Iggy is beginning to define his role as a closer for this team!! Sure, he did not have a great game, but he came through when it mattered most in crunch time! He is growing before our very eyes, normally when he drives to the hoop for a layup, he would miss it and complain for a lack of a call. (there was some contact there, but he remained persistent). Aside from the Dalembert block, which is the first time in a long time I’ve seen Sammy be tough as nails with 5 fouls, Iggy smothered Mayo, the best defense since sliced bread– a “defensive bread” that is.
Once he works on a mid-range jumpshot with consistency (ala Kobe who has improved his year after year), then this team could really be dangerous.
Who on this team has the best mid-range shot? (healthy or not healthy)
If I had to rank five, it would be:
1)Andre Miller
2)(Elton Brand)
3) (Jason Smith)
4) Marresse Speights
5) Andre Iguodala
For crunch time, Iggy is beginning to climb the Sixers roster there. Before, I would have Brand (healthy) before Iggy. Iggy has the potential to drive to the hoop and convert those tough layups with those long arms. And if he gets double or triple teamed, Andre Miller and (Elton Brand) could be the beneficiaries for the mid-range game winner.
1)Andre Miller
2)Andre Iguodala
3) (Elton Brand)
This team has TREMENDOUS upside. Like the Blazers, they are young and highly competitive! We should have a section on this site to monitor the race for the 4th seed from here on out (Altanta, Philadelphia, Miami, Detroit)!! It will be very interesting.
Also, Ray Allen hurt himself in a game at New Orleans. Could Iggy be a possible replacement for Allen at the All-Star game? I hope so, he deserves it!
GO SIXERS!!!
Also, you have to give Lionel Hollins and the Grizzlies a lot of credit. They are a scrappy team. Playing them over there in Memphis will not be an easy task and the Sixers might have to eek another one out there. They could be very servicable for the Sixers and play spoiler against the teams we are fighting for that 4th seed. However, the Grizzlies have a brutal schedule from here on out, but their scrappiness could come at handy. (3/15 @ DET, 3/23 @ MIA, 4/15 vs ATL)
Lionel Hollins, if he does not get the head coaching job for the Grizzlies, he should be added to our coaching staff as an assistant coach. Sometimes those assistant coaches could make a difference in a team’s improvement defensively!
If Brand can get more of his quickness and athleticism back that he seems to have lost from the ruptured Achilles, perhaps he can become more of a factor next season. But it’s still a big question mark, especially if the Sixers continue to try to run as much as possible.
Dave T……Yes, Sessions did it again, thanks for mentioning it, ugh! I have no choice but to stop watching the Bucks because I continue to beat myself up for cutting Sessions with every good game he plays (which is pretty much every game now). I’ll just wait until the next morning and check Charlie V’s stats on the fantasy league page.
It’s all Skiles’ fault that I cut Sessions anyway. Why he was an idiot and barely played Sessions for 6 weeks is beyond me. He shouldn’t get any credit for playing him now either, as I’m sure Sessions would still be planted at the end of the bench were it not for the injuries to Redd and Ridnour.
Regarding Hollins being an assistant, I meant for next season!
The Sixers remaining 31 games (13 home , 18 road)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/schedule?team=phi
How do you think they will fare?
There will be plenty of adversity (mentally and physically) and “trap games”, so far coach DiLeo has handled that very well (except for the Nets game). If we can fight through the fatigue and take each game one at a time, we should be in great condition to get that 4th or 5th seed. The Indiana game, for instance next Tuesday, they want to see if they can stay sharp in a game after the All-Star Weekend. They eeked one out against the Grizzlies prior to the break, but can they win the “trap game” after the break.
Then after the Pacers game, we host the Nuggets in the second of a back to back, who will be well rested and coach Karl talked about settling in Philly for a couple of days. Plus, we want to get our revenge against the Nuggets for coughing up that game in the previous meeting without Carmelo.
Then we have a road trip against teams fighting for playoff spots: Miami (treat this one like a playoff series), New Jersey (we owe them two), Washington (no spot, but dangerous mentally), and New York (playing much better at MSG)
Then after the Knicks game, the next game we host the Magic in the second of a back to back. Let’s see how mentally tough we are, plus we owe them one for letting Rashard Lewis hit that three, in addition to the 4th qt turnovers we had.
Then two days later, host the Hornets and we have a score to settle with Peja.
4 Days off after that and we take on the Grizzlies in Memphis. Then the Thunder in the second of a back-to-back in OKC.
That is quite a stretch of mental toughness and adversity! We have to treat this 31 game stretch like a playoff series and be the victors.
CW, to answer your question, I don’t think a healthy Brand gets the Sixers to the level of the Cavs or Celtics. Perhaps the Magic but not the other two.
Because of that, I believe they shhould be strong considering a trade of Andre Miller. I like the guy and think he is a good player, but he is the best chip this team has to build toward next year.
Tom Moore– Brand on the boards and on the defensive end has been a plus for the Sixers. Now, he just has to get his groove back offensively and hit a better FG%! The man is committed to working hard and doing whatever it takes to win–unlike our previous All-Stars like Webber and Robinson. After all, he took less money to win and coining the phrase, “The Philly Max”.
Chris Iafolla– you have a good point regarding the Sixers status with a healthy Brand.
But, remember the Celtics weren’t that great prior to adding Allen and Garnett. After they did, they needed to put the right pieces around the Big 3 and have guys making the COMMITMENT on the defensive end. Assistant coach Tom Thibodeau was a big key to their successful run. Glenn Rivers, prior to last season, was not exactly the ideal guy in terms of successful coaches, but with proper talent and a great coaching staff of defensive minded guys, they amped up greatly on the defensive end. Guys like Pierce and Allen improved greatly as individual defenders, Pierce especially. Even Scal and House have improved a bit.
http://www.nba.com/celtics/roster/coaches/
For Cleveland, hiring Mike Brown for head coach was the key. They made the playoffs every time since he was the head coach. He was an assistant coach to Popovich for the Spurs and Carlisle for the Pacers. Now, they are tremendously better, even better than the team that went to the Finals in 2007, because the team is more committed to following Brown’s defensive mindset. LeBron James is playing a lot better on the defensive end and is willing to slow the opposing team’s best player down the stretch. Mo Williams, not known as a good defender, has shown signs of improvement. Aside from LeBron being captain, Ben Wallace is the other captain!! So he is probably doing some excessive preaching defensively! Look at the asssistant coaches the Cavs have: Chris Jent and John Kuester, they were assistant coaches for the Sixers before.
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/roster/
Defense is a COMMITMENT and gives each individual a sense of ACCOUNTABILITY. As a team, there has to be plenty of COMMUNICATION if the defense is to be strong. One has to know when to go one-on-one defensively and when to double-team effectively. Defense is really the movement of your FEET as opposed to your hands. The arms are supposed to be up, while the feet are moving, in order to really contest shots.
What we perhaps need is an assistant coach with a lot of experience and defense on their resume in order to take that further approach!! I like DiLeo as our coach, but it come down to the assistant coaches!!
Generally, you don’t come back from a ruptured achilles tendon and surgery, you get along. Brand’s quickness and athleticism are a thing of the past. Pie-in-the-sky signing by Stefanski. Could’ve been forged by a consortium of Duke and U of Penn professors.
Dannie – can’t disagree with most of what you wrote in Post #51, but you are really addressing a much larger question than the original point that I was making, which was that Iguodala has been anything but “terrible” at the ends of games. Since, by your definition, there aren’t any “big” games at this point in the season, any discussion about his current play is irrelevant to the larger question of whether he is a “franchise keeper.” We won’t know that until this year’s playoffs. For what it’s worth, my opinion of Iguodala is (obviously) higher than yours — he’s shown he is a #1A player in the regular season, with a definite upward vector toward a #1 player. Whether that will translate into a #1 player in the playoffs (now or ever) remains to be seen. I’m optimistic, no doubt you are skeptical (as you have every right to be). By the way, just out of curiosity, does the fact that McGrady has never won a playoff series disquality him from (ever) being a franchise keeper, by your definition?
Ima Guest – McGrady is a franchise keeper for me because it isn’t like he disappears in the playoffs. He hasn’t won because he teams haven’t been good enough and he is a transcendent superstar to overcome that. His playoff numbers are not bad at all I just never liked his team role. I always thought he could have been a better offensive Scottie Pippen. But he was always put in the #1 player needing to carry the team.
I think Iguodala is a “piece” not “the piece.” That goes for Elton Brand as well. I’ve said it time and time again on this blog. Even wrote a way too long post on it. You don’t win championships with #1A players. You win championships with Docs, Moses, Magics, Birds, Jordans, Duncans, Kobes, LeBrons etc. And that isn’t me saying that. It’s NBA championship history. And I know even with your positive view of Iguodala you wouldn’t dare put him in that category.
Dannie
I watched that Duke Carolina game in disgust and I sat there eating every last word of my post about Ty. I realize you probably are a fan of his and I am not. So I am interested to see, do you want Ty to be a Sixer? Can we afford to replace Andre Miller or Lou with an “unproven” player. I say unproven because for the most part you can’t tell if a player will come out of college and be effective. Not to mention the other successful Carolina players have not carried their success to the NBA the last few years. I live in NC so the place is filled with Carolina fans, but I don’t know if anyone of those players will be a key player for an NBA squad.
Secondly, I agree with you and Ima Guest with the Iguodala debate. Heres my take. The Detroit series should be thrown out the window. Have you seen that NBA TV commercial where Iguodala is making a pass with six different hands surrounding his face… And the caption is “where no look happens”? That sums up the series for Andre. There were no “easy” baskets for him to make. We see it game after game. When Iguodala is not shooting well, he scores by getting easy baskets. Furthermore, it is obvious to me that Iguodala is a much better player when he can get into a rhythm. How easy can it be to get into a rhythm with Prince and company draped all over you. Miller played great, but other than him, Iggy was the only one Detroit had to worry about.
The way I see it… The Sixers took us through an amazing and exciting season last year and raised our hopes into becoming a great team for the future. Who would have thought we could come so far right after trading AI? We are obviously better than last year with the 5th seed right now… and that includes the 13-16 record with EB. If we started the season with the squad we have now, we probably would have a better record than we do right now (without Brand).
We can’t win a Championship with Iguodala being the number 1. But if we are going to win a championship, I think Iguodala will be a big part of that team. I think E.S. wasn’t preaching patience about a month ago because he wanted to keep us happy. But the reality of the situation, its going to take time. We signed Iguodala and Brand for 5 years, and this team can get a lot better in between now and then. If we can get rid of Brand for a player that can be effective here, we need to do it. However, right now… Im preaching patience with Iguodala AND this team.
Hey Jumpin, I figured you were away so I wanted to give you a heads up, go down to previous posts and Dannie has an ongoing post on possible deals. Please put a few in, would like your point of view.
Speaking of Iguodala, I just re-watched the 2006 dunk contest with him in it. The whole thing was set up. Theres no way lil Nate should have won with his 15 straight missed attempts. Then he proceeds to jump over Spud Webb which was creative, but in no way was a winning dunk. Everytime I watch this I get pissed off. Iguodala got completely ripped off. He deserves another shot. I want Andre in next years competition.
Good names in the over 21 non-all star question. Did not realize Deron has not made one! Not only as good or better a player, but on a winner. Jeffereson and Martin are also Iguodala caliber players but play for losers (Im not yet ready to put Gay their with those others.)
As for clutchness, its always a hard ting to quatify. 82games has a recent statisical analysis of game winners that shows most big names only come through about 35% of the time (Iguodala was about 36% but got to the line more than most.) They also have their “clutch time statistics. Ultimately, players are better if they score within the flow of an offense, and nobody is as clutch as you think they are- people just remember a few big plays one way or another.
Also, subjectively, Iguodala has come through better in end of game settings, although not a big fan of his pull up 17 footer (like he hit on Pierce.) He has been finishing in the lane better and creating for other players at the end of games.
As for Detroit, Iguodala was flat out overmatched. He is a great player, but not a great scorer- so a top defensive team can take away his scoring opportunities. Hopefully in a similar future setting both Iguodala and his teammmates will be savvy enough to take advantage of what is left open when a defense overcommits to stopping him- like in game one where he got 16/9/8 and the win despite crappy shooting.
On a positive note, Iguodala has shown recently the ability to create and drive more on nights where he flat at cant shoot. Last year 72% of his shots were jumpers, this year its down to 65% (Lebron 61%, Kobe 72%… needs to be closer to Lebrons shot selection, a true great who can’t shoot.)
are people saying iguodala is in the same league as kobe, lebron, duncan, etc..? of course he’s not. i still think you’re being overly critical of his performance though. he has played incredibly well since December, and is the biggest reason this team is one of the hottest in the nba.
Just made this trade on draft machine(see ESPN main page- pretty cool). AndreM, Reggie & Lou Will for Bayless, Blake, Lafrentz plus no 1 pick. It works. Any thoughts?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Watching Ariz st vs UCLA. This Harden kid is NBA ready(3/2 position). Great half court offensive game. Will have to adjust to NBA quickness but he’ll do everything in the NBA.
Sfw: Glad you brought this up…hoopshype, realgm and yahoo sports are all claiming that Portland is bagging the Amare deal and would rather have an “elite PG”. Comes from a pretty ridiculous source, so I don’t really believe it, but if it is true and they consider A-Miller a top flight PG…why include all those other players in the deal?
If the player Portland wants is A-Miller, then lets figure out what we can get for only A-Miller. Off the top of my head, A-Miller earns about $9-10 million in this last year of his contract. It would be automatic that we’d get either Bayless ($2 million) or Sergio Rodriguez ($850 k) as the new, young PG. Normally I’d almost always opt for more of a traditional pass first PG, but in this case Bayless’ shooting ability and big time scoring makes wanting him over Sergio a no brainer, IMO.
I really see no reason to pick up Blake, when we have a very capable backup in Ivey that is deserving of more minutes if anything. This means we should try to pick up the best available player among Portland’s obvious glut…swingmen. They have Brandon Roy, Rudy Fernandez, Travis Outlaw, Martell Webster and Nicolas Batum all playing the SG/SF, and sometimes small PF spots. They are clearly not letting Rudy go, and it seems like they’ve always preferred Webster’s shooting to Outlaw’s athleticism and slashing. Outlaw is young, athletic, plays D, and has improved shooting and passing every year, and give a huge boost to our bench at the SF spot.
A-Miller’s $10.3 million for Bayless (roughly $2 mill) + Outlaw ($4 mill a year) and we’d need another $2.7 million in salary to make it work. I think Portland would feel Bayless + Outlaw is strictly from a talent/basketball point of view roughly equivalent to A-Miller…so any other player they’d include would be more of a salary throw in, as opposed to an actual basketball move.
This leaves Batum and Diogu. They seem to like Batum’s youth, versatility and defense…and if we took on Outlaw another SF/PF would hurt us anyway since we would now have Brand, Speights, Reggie, Thad and Outlaw…plus he doesn’t make enough…so that leaves Diogu’s $3 million to fill out the trade. He only has a year left on his deal…we could easily buy him out.
A-Miller for Bayless, T Outlaw & Diogu (who would be bought out), giving us:
PG: J Bayless
SG: Iguodala
SF: Thad
PF: Brand
C: Dalembert
bench:
Guards – Ivey, Lou
Wings – Outlaw, Rush
Frontcourt – Speights, Reggie, Ratliff
***Not saying I’d do this trade, am just suggesting one potential realistic deal with Portland, jumping off SFW’s post. But I am curious what people might feel about an A-Miller for a young PG/young wing swap. For me, A-Miller is the MVP of this team right now…NOT Iguodala. But obvious worries are his age, lack of shooting, lack of defense, and the “He’s good, but good enough to get us over the hump?” question.
Bayless would give us youth, 3 point shooting, a fearless scoring combo guard, a good defender. Outlaw would give us defense, slashing, jumpshooting, great bench depth…and at a great price tag.
Dave, just trying to make it even. AMiller may not sign with portland. So, looking at Lou Will, Reggie for Bayless, Blake & #1 BUT A. Mill will lead Portland to greater heights this year; therefore, toss in the #1. Blake gives us more 3pt shooting and may fit nicely with Royal, bayless or Willie. Flexibility at the guard position. Point guard of the future. 3pt shooting. Step back this year to take a step forward in the future.
this whole argument bout Iguodala being or not being a crunch time player is not right. To me, he doesnt even qualify as a ‘crunch-time player’ if by crunch time player you mean taking the winning shot, one-on-one et al. Everyone knows a) thats not his game b) he is not a natural shooter/scorer c)in the sixers offense that is not the best way to go. Them giving him the ball at the end of games(wit Lou stinking it up) is just another play to me. Sometimes it goes in, sometimes it don’t, i wont get too excited bout it. Taking over a game like LeBron or Kobe, thats crunch time for me. Only a handful of guys can do stuff like that. All this last second shot stuff doesnt appreciate Iggy’s ability any more than it depreciates it. i’ve always known he could hit the shot, i’m more concerned bout how smarter and wily he gets in those situations (ability to draw a foul etc.) sometimes giving up the ball like PP did is the best option (esp for the Sixers)………………………..Ok wit all that talk, he is getting better at making that shot tho; the ability to impose your will on your hands and say- guys, this needs to go in NOW.
Dave T: i’d stopped hoping Iggy would be that kind of defender. it just takes too much energy. he’d probably start getting injured or playin less minutes. D specialists are always guys who dont score much. like Iverson wud tell you, offense takes energy.
” For me, A-Miller is the MVP of this team right now…NOT Iguodala.” – DUHHHHH!
my greatest fear exactly – Grizzlies game proved it even though Iggy stole the headline. TRADE HIM NOW or RESIGN HIM!!!!!!!!’
WHo knew that Deron Williams was not an all-star. Shows you how smart fan-voting is.
Dannie: Who wouldnt take him over Iguodala?
Why would Portland want a veteran PG? thats usually for veteran teams preparing for a playoff run that dont have a lot of faith in their current one…I don’t think Portland thinks they’re that good to go anywhere. look for them to unload from the glutted SF position (likes of Outlaw and Webster)
Something tells me Portland might not give up Bayless for Miller, but if so, it MIGHT be a steal (emphasis on might cos Bayless only has ‘potential’ right now, no more)
A couple Iggy points; 1] his left hand has really improved this year, he is no Bobby Jones with it yet, but when he goes to it at the end of games that shows me something. 2] he seems to be passing better and turning the ball over less. 3] I thought he couldn!t improve much this year, I was wrong. I don!t think Portland parts with Bayless or Fernandez, and if they don!t, I hope E.S. tells them ” fogetaboutit!!!”.
Stefanski told me last week that he won’t make a trade for financial reasons, meaning it’s got to make the Sixers better as a basketball team. At the same time, he said he’s talked to every team in the league and that, though trades are difficult to make, they’re not impossible.
Tom: Did you ask ES whether or not he regards future improvement, with short term negative consequences, making the Sixers better as a basketball team? I am asking this specially in regards to Miller.
He said he won’t make a trade to avoid losing a player to free agency unless it helps the team. Remember, he did trade Korver to create cap space used to sign Brand and allow Young additional playing time over the final 31/2 months last season. While it shouldn’t have made the Sixers better and Stefanski could’ve have envisioned it, the Sixers finished the year 22-12 because they excelled player at a faster pace.
The Miller situation is interesting because he hasn’t said he wants to leave, but he also hasn’t said he wants to stay. Would Stefanski be willing to pay Miller $10 million a year (his current salary) for the next two seasons? If so, would Miller accept it? Those are unknowns, at this point.
suede, At your service: Sam for a bag of pipe cleaners, a Canadian flag and a Seton Hall Pirates decal; Lou for a working turntable & Alfonso Ford; Rush for an unexpired Arby’s coupon; Brand for a generic court recorder and a Mike Dunleavy Sr. autograph; Young for Olden Polynice and Sage Rosenfels (every team needs a quarterback); Evans for Zager (in the year 2525). Don’t forward to league office yet;
tentative; further review may bring revision.
“Rush for an unexpired Arby’s coupon”
The fine print says the Arby coupon is worth less than 1/15th of a cent. That might still be too much for Rush.
BTW, Brand’s contract was called the second worse in basketball by Simmons at ESPN yesterday… anyone want to guess #1?
Iggy’s, Sam’s, Lou’s or Bob Salmi’s.
Salmi’s is a good call. They need to hire Mad Dog (Fred Carter), my source says he’s interested in the job…
As for #1, Simmons said Arenas.
Both are voluble, 78 rpm talkers, but Mad Dog played NBA, head coached it and is a whole lot less rote and corny. Any guy who was MVP of ’72 – ’73 Sixers has earned a ‘golden years’ courtside sinecure. Approved by Trade Machine.
I like Salmi’s on the post game but he certainly can improve on his game calling. I’d like to give Celistand a go. I know I spelled his name wrong. I like his style.
sfw Can’t go with another Wildcat. Hubie White, Wally Jones, Billy Melchionni, Jim Washington, Ed Pinckney, Tim Thomas, Michael Bradley … haven’t we suffered enough?
In truth, Wally and Jim were good players for Sixers.
JJG, But we lost Chet the jet in the washington deal. Didn’t work in our favor!
TK76.…Lots of good stuff in that Simmons article you mentioned. This really jumped out at me though:
Tim Duncan…
His finishes in the Trade Value column since 2001: No. 2, No. 3, No. 1, No. 2, No. 1, No. 3, No. 3, No. 4. Uncanny. Speaking of consistency, check out his 12 regular seasons (including this one) split into groups of three seasons …
Duncan (first three years): 22-12-3, 52 percent FG, missed eight games.
Duncan (next three years): 23-13-4, 51 percent FG, missed eight games.
Duncan (next three years): 21-12-3, 50 percent FG, missed 31 games.
Duncan (last three years): 20-11-3, 52 percent FG, missed five games.
Then, remember that he also played 155 playoff games and averaged a 23-13-4 with 50 percent shooting, plus first-class defense and leadership. And sprinkle in the little fact that no Duncan team has ever lost even 30 games in a regular season. Translation: Greatest power forward ever, most consistent superstar ever and you cannot sleep on him in May and June.
Oh how I’d love to have that here.
Tim Thomas … ugh. One can only imagine the possibilities of the LB/ Iverson teams if LB hadn’t screwed up the back to back lottery picks of Thomas and Larry Huges.
marion to toronto for jermaine o’neal
sfw, You’re right. But Jim could jump like a rabbit and scamper according to Dr. Jack’s then-revolutionary (for pros) 2-2-1 pressure game. Walker – a great scorer, smart and under control … “backing man down left side, pump fake, release, swishhhh.”
Morty, So right. The Brooklyn carpetbagger reached deep for those two, unfortunately.
jjg: Passing on Paul Pierce in favor of Hughes, when those teams’ glaring weakness was always at the SF position, was particularly awful.
Tom: My fear is that Stefanski will be focused on this season’s ticket sales more than the future of the basketball team – meaning he will not move Miller. That and he will give Miller a 3 year deal this coming off season.
The Miami Heat traded Shawn Marion & Marcus Banks to the Toronto Raptors for Jermaine ‘O Neal & Jamario Moon.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146
Morty: Forget if it was you or someone else I had back and forthed with about this before, but I completely with your 1997: “We have Iverson, a top upcoming SG in the NBA…desperately need a SF…pass up the best SF in college, and instead draft a ball hogging, low FG% SG in college the same position as AI” being THE move that killed us for about the next decade straight.
What kills me the most is that looking back on this move and hating it isn’t even revisionist history. At the time, Larry Hughes was playing on a completely mediocre St. Louis team in Conf. USA that was depleted of talent, he was allowed to just gun up every shot he wanted, had a 40% FG%, hogged the ball, had horrible shot selection, and was a terrible shooter from beyond the COLLEGE three point arc. But the “Oh wow, the athleticism!” factor won out (most overrated trait in basketball). Yeah, clearly a capable teammate for AI, jesus.
Whereas on the flipside Pierce, then a junior, proved himself to be the most NBA capable player on a one of the best NCAA team’s of the 90′s (the ’96-’97 Kansas team with Vaughn, Pierce, Lafrentz, Pollard coached by Roy)…that by his junior year had cleaned up all the weaknesses of his game, proved to be a versatile scorer (shooting/slashing), that played good defense, hustled, and was a good team player and passed the ball well. *all of Philadelphia collectively bangs heads against wall*
TK76: GREAT call on Fred Mad Dog Carter. He would be a wonderful compliment to Zumoff in the booth. Knows the game well, always gets real excited about the game, and has a Philly past. I always liked his ESPN show in the late 90′s/early 00′s that teamed him and David Aldridge together in the late 90′s on ESPN.
Tom Moore: You mentioned a $10 million dollar price tag on A-Miller…that kind of raised my eyebrows. Given the fact of his age (33), that it’s not exactly a secret that PG/SG’s games tend to go down hill soon after, and that A-Miller probably isn’t the type to go put the agent’s claws on a team’s throat to squeeze out every cent possible in a deal…I can’t see him asking $10 million a year. I also think he’d much rather have the security of a 3-4 year deal rather than a quick fix at higher pay.
Maybe I’m off here, but I’ve always imagined his worth to be in a frontloaded deal earning about $8 million per, $8.5 tops, in a frontloaded deal. I’ve always kinda figured the two options would be 4 years at $28-30 million, or 3 years at $24-26 million), would be acceptable to both player and team. Curious if other people agree, or do you think he’d push higher?
Damn, I need to start editing what I type. “Frontloaded deal…in a frontloaded deal.” “Early 90′s show on ESPN…in the late 90′s on ESPN”. My bad!
I used $10 million simply because Miller is making that much this season. Would he be willing to settle for considerably less to get two or three years? I don’t know. He may be worth it at the offensive end, but not on defense, where he has trouble keeping opposing point guards from getting to the basket.
DaveT., I blame Iverson partly for the Hughes draft fiasco because ,if I remember correctly L.B.!s main reason for drafting Hughes was to put a big p.g. next to A.I. . That is why I hope L.Will. is gone over the summer, because his size and defensive weaknesses limit our draft options. Do we pass on a small p.g. with bigtime potential for a bigger one that can play with L.Will., I hope not. Morty, if we can cut down his minutes to 28 to 32 a game, A.Miller may be able to contribute all the way through the ‘Elton Era”. J.Kidd is living proof it is possible. Like DaveT. has stated, and I agree, most of the p.g.!s in this draft are backups on a good team, and the fact Ivey can play some 2 guard hopefully we can bring our draft pick along real slow. As far as A.Miller!s contract, our backup p.g. will be getting the rookie minumum so it is not like we are overpaying the one position.
Suede: The one nice thing about Lou Williams is that he doesn’t seem to complicate our PG position at all. He has never been a PG, isn’t one now, and won’t ever be a PG. I know before this season fans seemed to be very split on “Can Lou be the future 1 or not?” I think 99% of people would agree that this season has proved Lou Williams NOT to be capable of a starting job as a floor leader.
Personally, from year two when Lou started improving his game, I’ve always thought he would make a real poor fit at PG, but could be a great 6th man combo guard off the bench. Even though he’s had an off year, I actually still hold that view, and want him around as a bench player for a scoring punch. But he doesn’t seem to get in the way of drafting our PG to groom.
Top PG’s out there to draft: Since Rubio has decided to stay in Spain, and if some college soph’s declare, the top PG’s out there to draft, IMO, will be Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, Nick Calathes and Johnny Flynn. I’m sure people will go for Jennings in the top 4-8 or so, leaving the latter three left for late lottery and mid 1st round. I personally don’t think any other PG’s in college (Collison, Vasquez, Downey, and DEF. not T Rice) should even be in the discussion of possible NBA starters or people we should draft. I also think it’s important we draft a future starter, not just someone that can effectively back up Miller.
Personally, I think we should stand pat, sign A-Miller to a 3 year, $24 million deal, and draft Johnny Flynn, who should be available mid 1st round. He, much moreso than Lawson, has a much more intuitive feel for the court, and a better eye in a halfcourt offense. I would say the same about Calathes…and both Flynn and Calathes have a nice shot. Lawson has VERY much improved his game this year compared to others, but I still him more as an amazing athlete and defensive stopper as opposed to a true PG. I will admit though Lawson excels in the open court, and again his defense is jaw droppingly good.
I would like the Sixers to do what the ’06 Clippers were doing with Sam Cassell and Shaun Livingston (before it went all to sh*t). We keep A-Miller around with our crew, see what we can do with Brand, while slowly phasing in Flynn/Calathes/Lawson as the full time starter. He can mentor them while still getting his PT and being the vet leader we need.
I also think it would be incredible to somehow land a second mid 1st round pick this year in a tweak trade. My perfect draft would be one of the three PG’s mentioned above, and Chase Budinger for his amazingly high bball IQ on offense, silky smooth shot, and good passing to have on the bench.
DaveT., I would love to see a Lawson, Ivey duo pressuring the ball off the bench but offensively that may be too much to ask. Iv!e been a big L.Will. fan but his defense and decision making seem to have regressed lately. I like Collison in a backup role [Darryl Armstrong type] because of his 3 pt. ability and I just love how U.C.L.A. guys defend man on man.Watched Buddinger about 2 weeks ago, he seems to really fluctuate as far as his production, he went scoreless in the 1/2 I watched but the athletism and ability is there, some guys blossom when they get the the N.B.A. Flynn plays with a pair of BIG ONES but not sure if he is under control enough. Do you think Calathes!s athletism and quickness will be enough at the next level, his passing ability is good enough for sure but I keep thinking how R.Walters looked at Kansas and I am just not sure about him.
By the way, over on depressed fan Brian was discussing Sessions being a restricted free agent this summer and Milwaukee having money woes so a sign and trade deal may be a possibility if he out plays what Milwaukee can afford to pay him. Also, according to draftexpress we don!t have a 2nd round pick this year, that sucks because we seem to be pretty lucky with them.
Buying a second-round pick isn’t usually difficult because so many teams are worried about the luxury tax. Remember 5 1/2 years ago when the Sixers bought picks from the Nets and Sonics that became Korver and Green?
The Sixers traded their 2009 second-rounder in the draft day deal with Miami in which they moved up one spot to get Jason Smith.
Tom, I hate to rain on everybody!s parade but Thad looked like a role player among stars tonight in the rookie/sophomore game. Maybe it is because he is on a playoff team and tends to try and just fit in but there were a lot of guys out there tonight that I wouldn!t have a problem trading him straight up for. Rudy has a quick release and is very athletic and plays with a flair for the dramatic, he would really put people in the seats .
Suede: You are right…but thankfully, the rookie/soph game means absolutely nothing, and what anyone looked like in it, fortunately, also means nothing.
Thad Young: It seems like a lot of people were high on Thad and claiming “FUTURE ALL STAR OH MY GOD!!!” at the beginning of the season, and now people seem more down on him and thinking everyone he’s been overrated the guy. I think we all need to be patient. He is TWENTY. That is extremely young. We’ve gotten very spoiled by these ridiculous Lebron/Durant like talents that just waltz in the NBA and turn up all star numbers right away…this is not the norm, and not the way it usually happens.
I’m not saying there is a definition for what type of “ceiling” Thad has, but he’s 20, has shown the ability to play the 3 and 4, has a nice post move or two, his shot has already immensely improved from his year at G-Tech, and his IQ and understanding of the game has gone up from college as well.
If stars ages 25-30 are still all improving their games, I think we can give our almost-still-a-teenager a little slack. Let’s let him @!#$ up and make mistakes like all normal human beings do, and be thankful he has growing pains like that. It’ll help him improve, create more drive and hunger in the long run, and he will be just fine.
It’s been proven about 439021749140 times that people who left straight from high school, or came out as freshman/sophomores, take about 3-4 years, in many cases longer, to really find their groove in the NBA and start coming into their own. Go Sixers!!!
Thad is passive and all-star games are for the more aggressive players and players that are comfortable handling the rock and bringing it up. They tend to go get the ball and keep it. Thad did what he does on the Sixers. Get points without plays run for him and he was also looking to pass.
But it’s clear his perimeter game isn’t developed enough to be a dynamic offensive player. Right now he is a decent post up player, catch and shoot guys and sometimes a straight slasher (meaning he just goes one one way typically left).
He is still young. Hopefully with tons of practice and development over the summer he will continue to add elements to his game. But I am still not convinced he will become a more aggressive player to fully maximize his potential.
According to this guy on a Philly.com Forum, he says that his friend from New Orlean told him told that the Sixers might do a deal with a Hornets where the Sixers would send Samuel Dalembert, Willie Green, and a 2nd round draft pick to the Hornets for Tyson Chandler & Rasual Butler.
http://forums.philly.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-sixers&msg=46152.1&ctx=1
You know I was looking for stuff on that through the usual suspects (ESPN, Philly.com, NOLA, etc), but could not find anything. Then again, Stefanski likes to do things without notice or hoopla.
Is there any way we can get in touch with anyone in New Orleans on whether such a deal exists? I think it might be speculation and I have no idea what to make of it. It sounds intriguing!
Chandler and Dalembert play similar games on the defensive end. The Rasual Butler bit sounds interesting though, with his shooting abilities! If Ed Stefanski is going to make such a deal, it better be during the Break and not during one of our games. We would need those guys to get their physicals passed on time and for them to suit up. Anyway, I think it is just speculation! What do you guys think?
I was reading Jasner!s article on Thad and how he was a 4/5 in highschool and a 4/ parttime 3 at Georgia Tech and I wonder if he can ever become a great perimeter player, or if his niche will be as a 4/3 in the pros, not a bad thing but with Iggy and Elton probably here for 4 more years he may have to bide his time. Dannie, your an A.C.C. guy, this reminds me of Stackhouse coming out as a 4/parttime 3 at Carolina and it seemed to take him a long time to become a perimeter threat in the N.B.A. and he was older when he came in.
I agree with Dave. Must be patient. Thad is a quality person. He may never be a super agressive player(doesn’t seem to be a type ‘A’ personality) but his basketball skills will certainly improve. What’s his upside? Don’t know but I think he will maximize his potential. Too early to tell. 20 years old? I know I wasn’t mature then and I’m still growing up at 29. well maybe 39…… well maybe 49…… well……………..
Let me go ahead and pretty much shoot down that Dalembert/Chandler trade thought. It makes not one bit of sense for either team. For one Dalembert and Chandler are essential the exact same player in every respect. That is why their contracts are nearly identical in length and salary.
And by all accounts New Orleans is looking to cut salary because they have Chris Paul’s salary jumping from $4.5 to $13.7 and they will be over the luxury tax next season if they don’t serious reduce salary.
Personally I think it would be in their best interest to move Peja not Chandler since they have no other big man and I gotta image they want to stay semi competitive. You can find a decent shooter for less than Peja’s $14M and $15M per year over the next two.
It’s a funny thing sfw. I see us as a middle of the road team in a lot of ways and I think we need to decide, and quickly, what we are and how we should proceed in building a title contender.
Are we a team that needs to have patience and allow our young guys (Young, Speights, Williams, and, to a lesser extent, Smith) to grow, mature, and develop? If so, then why did we get Brand now and why should we even consider keeping Miller?
Are we a team that needs to win now, because of Brand, Miller, and, to a lesser extent Dalembert and Iguodala? If so, it appears as though we don’t have enough to get the job done. We clearly lack a superstar go-to guy and unquestioned leader who can take us where we want to go, so should we, a la Boston, be moving at least some of our young talent to get one here now?
As it stands we’re almost here, almost there, but almost isn’t good enough.
It’s a business. Win today, or lose money tomorrow.
They draft 4 fresh-faced kids (Williams, Smith, Young, Speights) and throw ‘em in the fire, trumpet their potential while talking like P.T. Barnum … ”building & patience”, “excitement & playoff hopes” – - combining approaches and expectations in an effort to generate interest and revenue (and time). Fans are rightly confused because the roster make-up is a hodge-podge of mileage-bearing veterans (Miller, Brand, Marshall, Ratliff) & mentioned virtual rookies & a few almost-ripe players(Iguodala, Green, Dalembert), finished off by 2 relatively cheap acquisitions – one paying dividends, one not (Ivey, Rush). Team of today? Or team of tomorrow? Or team in need of hard-boiled assessment and roster reconstruction? I think the talent is overvalued some by management and fans. Can’t get too attached/be sentimental when attempting to build a champion team. Gotta get that #1 player (as Dannie emphasizes) and a pure shooter somehow … easier said than done. But setting the course (team style, permanent coach) and clarifying the purpose (development stage, ‘playoffs & satisfaction’ or ‘Ring Or bust’?) is the place to start, from both a day-to-day operative and PR standpoint.
JJG – Been thinking the same thing and totally agree. If I had to sum it up concisely I would say this about the Sixers…
They are built on hope.
Not sure that’s enough to get it done.
Dannie/jjg, I guess it could be worse. We could be Washington. They are hoping(there’s that word) that these young guys will mature while Andre M, Iggy & Brand are holding court. I guess Lou, Thad, Speights & JaSmith are on target for the 2011-12 season. So, we go back to do we keep AMiller or not? Once Brand shows he’s healthy next year they’ll have to decide on him. If healthy, he will have value.
Rob, SF1976 at RealGM, who has always claimed to have a source with the Sixers, also posted this morning about Chandler +/- Butler +/- Devin Brown for Sam +/- Gree +/- Smith +/- pick.
I’m not a fan of any of these moves except maybe Green for Butler. I do not give up on Smith for a 30 year old D-League player. And as for Chandler, he might have a better offensive BB IQ than Sam, but he s just as limitted a player. They rebound at the same % but Sam is a much better shot blocker (honestly, I don’t know how fundamentally sound a defender Chandler is.)
I really think Chandler’s big season last year should be credited to playing next to CP3. I see Sam being as good or better next to CP3. Aso Sam take care of his body (crazy stuff like using a hyperbaric chamber) while Chandler is always getting hurt.
…BTW, here is SF 1976′s exact post:
<blockquote cite=”A Saturday morning trade rumor for you….was told this last night.
Sam Dalembert and Willie Green for Tyson Chandler and Rasual Butler. We may also have to send a pick…..Green and Butler were filler…could also be 1 for 1-Dalembert for Chandler.
We are trying to get Devin Brown in the deal…willing to move Jason Smith if that happens.
They will talk more leading into deadline. But this one actually has a chance guys..stay tuned.”>
I will reiterate it’s not happening and if it does. That deal is bad enough for me to lose confidence in Stefanski. Dalembert for Chandler straight up is a wash at best and I’d argue Sam’s durability and better play than Chandler this season, better free throw shooting (this shouldn’t be overlooked) and more blocks make this a loss for the Sixers.
For many who don’t look at stats turnovers are damn near identical on a per 36 basis (2.1 vs. 2.0). If the Sixers do this deal and give up a pick as well It’s a terrible deal.
Again, currently I still have confidence in Stefanski and because of that I will shoot this down again. Not happening.
Stefanski last week on the possibility of making a trade by Thursday’s deadline: “The thing I keep saying is unless someone makes us a basketball offer, meaning something on the court, we will not make a trade. It has to make basketball sense. It’s not financial.”
To me, that indicates he’s not going to deal Miller unless it makes the Sixers a better team, even though Miller could walk and the Sixers would get nothing in return in July.
I agree, Dannie. New Orleans would much rather trade Peja to dump salary than Chandler. Doesn’t seem to make sense on either side.
Tom, the good thing about what Ed said is it indicates the Sixers are not one of those teams looking to dump salary just for tax purposes (like the Henderson move a couple of years back, or the Camby trade this year.)
The Sixers might get close to the tax this summer, but maybe they are willing to take on some salary in order to take a good player off a finantialy strapped theam… lets say makng a move to get Sessions.
Chandler’s another who, like Dalembert, has taken his lumps, learned on the job. The proverbial “athletic” and flawed player. Doesn’t excite much as an addition prospect. Agree w/you, Dannie, pretty much a wash. Butler, whom I root for due to Philly roots, is a streaky shooter and looked real shaky helping against Sixers’ pressure, like the ball was a hot potato and the next pass was a matter of big doubt. Not sure what he’d bring overall either.
sfw, Washinton is a mess, starting with name, colors and logo. As a market commodity, I see Brand’s stock dropping with each passing day, given age, prolonged inactivity (breeding doubt) and 2 significant injuries within 2 years (breeding more doubt).
Chandler: I certainly don’t think Chandler for Sammy would be a “wash”, talent wise at least, as someone mentioned. Chandler, for me, is the far superior player. They might have a similar skill set, but if you had two in front of you, I think any team in the NBA would be crazy not to choose Tyson Chandler. He is a 12 pt, 12-13 rb, 2+ blks guy that is a LOT more consistent than Dalembert.
I think all the hating on Chandler this year is ridiculous. The man has been injured all year long, battling injuries, and been in and out of the lineup, and not 100% healthy. In Chicago, every time Chandler was healthy he would put up real good numbers as a starter…than an injury would hit. The Bulls were also always logjammed at the 4/5 spots with 80 veterans each year, meaning he didn’t get the minutes needed to really flourish.
The guy is, for me, THE perfect defensive/rebounder type center. If the Hornets trade Chandler that would be the stupidest freaking knee-jerk reaction move this year…he’s 7’0, tough, one of the best rebounders in the league, and very good at both individual and team defense. And when he’s not hurt, Chandler has proved to be able to put up extremely consistant numbers.
Dalembert I’ve always hoped someday could get to the level that Chandler had last year (which I still think has a potential of happening)…but thus far his inconsistency, constant fouling, moping, and piss fights with coaches have hampered that. So if you’re talking about a slightly even trade…sure, if you take Chandler’s horrible injury issues and Sam’s inconsistency that kinda cancel each other out, yeah. But talent alone? Chandler wins hands down.
Bski: Real nice comment above, about “middle of the road team, and we need to make decisions, now”. In my view, if we committed this much money to Brand, I think the A-Miller/Brand/Iggy/Thad/Dalembert thing deserves a fair shake. With the whole team playing like puke early on, Brand’s inconsistency, injury, and now the team starting to click…I want to see a healthy Brand in with this team with this swagger we are starting to show now, and see what we can do.
I’m all for throwing this year out as far as long term plans. I’d resign A-Miller to a 3 year, $24 million deal, and give that lineup with a healthy Brand, more mature Iggy and Thad, and hopefully (that word again!) consistent Dalembert a fair shake. And if it doesn’t work out? Then we have whatever PG we draft this year, Iguodala Thad Young, Mareese Speights, and Dalembert to build on/trade with for the future, and can shop Brand’s soon to be expiring contract in his 4th or 5th year.
Thad Young, is a future all star. Write that in stone. I wish our whole team was filled with People who had the attitude and work ethic of young Thaddues. Thad Young epitomizes whatever is good in sports, what a kid and what a player. We have been blessed to have this kid on the roster, I hope that his detractors will understand that some day. In an era of basketball where many don’t give a damn, Thad does.
Chandler, Dalembert career numbers:
TC 27.9 Min/.556 FG/.599 FT/9.0 RB/1.4 BL/1.6 TO/3.1 PF/8.2 PPG
SD 26.5 Min/.526 FG/.687 FT/8.1 RB/2.0 BL/1.5 TO/3.2 PF/8.2 PPG
Looks like parallel performance to me. Numbers don’t tell all, but broadly speaking, same player.
People always talk about inconsistency. The numbers I linked to and JJG typed out are over 469 and 524 games and they are even. The numbers are clear. Superior player my ass. Let’s put the bias aside and acknowledge the facts.
Talent means next to nothing when it isn’t effectively converted to production. So it’s a matter of opinion whether Chandler or Dalembert has more talent but the production for both players is presented clearly. They are damn near the same player.
And again when you factor in Sam’s durability (aka on the court more with which to produce) things start leaning Sam’s way in IMHO.
Also the perfect defensive/rebounding center is Marcus Camby in IMHO. He’s been doing it for 13 years and his rebounding has gotten better while his turnovers have decreased.
Also – when talking about talent I think that discussion is more heavily weighted towards guys in their first few years in the league. Not 7 and 8 year veterans. I think with Sam and Chandler you pretty much know what you are going to get. I don’t think either guys is turning into a reliable offensive option. So where does the talent point come into play? What does this “superior talent” actually get you when the numbers say it’s likely to get you exactly what you already got?
I’ve always loved Camby’s game. Wanted Sixers to pick him over Iverson in draft.
About Chandler: I’m less talking about a Sammy vs. Chandler debate, and more just defending Chandler from his skeptics. I think one of the most overlooked things with many players, which unfortunately career/yearly stats cannot accurately project, is how a player performs when he gets spurts of minutes during the year, that due to circumstances out of his control, do not last the whole year.
The only argument I’m making is that I hear many NBA columnists and fans say, “Oh, Chandler got xyz only because of Chris Paul, it was a one year aberration!” IMO, not true. If you go back and look carefully at his years with the Bulls, his year long stats from those years are often misleading. Chandler was ALWAYS sharing time with immense logjams Chicago had at the PF/C positions. There were many times when Chandler, only getting 7 pts 6 boards or something, when a starter or major forward would go down, would put together strings of double digit rebounding games, and then would be forced to sit again when player xyz came back. When those logjams were finally cleared up and Chandler did have the opportunity to shine, he would put him strings of double doubles and huge rebound efforts & blocks…and then get a minor injury, forcing him to miss time, etc.
Not trying to get in a pissing match between Sammy vs. Chandler…but I just think Chandler’s game in Chicago was overlooked, and the logjams there forced his career stats down A LOT.
Dannie: You can’t have superior talent on the defensive end? If we take a good (not great, right now at least) defender like Iguodala, and compare him to a Ron Artest or Quinton Ross, and can clearly say the latter two are FAR superior in locking men down for on the ball individual defense…then why can’t we compare rebounding & interior defense talent as well?
And you’ve heard my shpiel about defensive statistics…I don’t think they accurately measure an individual players performance. It is just my opinion, but I think when you stack the two up together, Chandler offers things Sammy doesnt. Namely:
-He tends to box out much more instead of just immediately chasing the ball and leaving his man.
-He is better at rotating in a team defense.
-He can more quickly help and recover.
-His footwork is more honed.
-His bball IQ is a bit higher, and he can read an offensive teams gameplan better and move on defense accordingly.
-He has less “off” days.
Offensively, even though he’ll never be great, Chandler to my eye at least also has better footwork, knows how to seal a man 20,000 times better, and sets MUCH better picks. And I disagree that we’ve seen all there is from Chandler. NO last year was the first real time he’s been given a true chance and had the coach’s trust…he’s a guy thats always worked and I can see him improving on that to becoming the next Camby type of player out there, minus the jumpshooting.
I think at their best when healthy and consistent: Chandler is more of a guy that could get you 13 pts, 13 rbs, 2 blks. Sammy is an 11 & 10 with 2.5 blks. Same type of player, but I do think one’s better. And, as another poster said…this trade is stupid for both teams, so it doesn’t really matter anyway.
We can!t disregard the injury issue in any deals, because the fact that A.Miller, Iggy and Sam never miss games is big. Look at A.Jefferson twice going down with knee issues, a franchise cornerstone ready to crumble. Jumpin, Sammy for Camby, definitely, but not Chandler.
Chandler gets 1/3 of his shots off of dunks (the last 2 years.) Given 88% of those dunks are off of assists (mostly frmCP3) you can’t ignore that his numbers are pasdded playing next to CP3.
BTW, 19% of Sam’s shots are dunks, and less are off of assists (other are off O-Boards.) With all due respect to the Andres, those numbers would go next to CP3.
Stats from 82games. com
TK76 – Agree 100%
Sam recently has been making that foul line jumper and I have always thought that is a shot that he should be taking and making when he is open.
Dave T – You always say you don’t believe in defensive stats and that’s fine. Then any conversation is mere opinion based on individual observation. Rebounding, steals and blocks are defensive statistics that matter when evaluating two players. Also, I just simply don’t agree that Chandler is a better all-around defender than Sam. And really that is where the conversation ends.
Also where Sam has “off days” Chandler has invisible days where he is completely unproductive and you don’t even know he played. What are those days called?
Historically speaking, Chandler is to Dalembert as Walt Wesley is to Mel Counts. Or as Connie Dierking is to Darrall Imhoff. (Analogies of virtual stiffs and also-rans, respectively.) You’re not going the distance with either Tyson or Sam at center post imo … unless you clone MJ.
Dannie: Not saying defensive stats don’t matter at all (although I do think steals is a pretty worthless stat). Of course rebounds and blocks matter…but they tend to be more of an indicator of just that, rebounding and blocking, which is a small part of a player’s total defensive ability.
I just think that, much moreso than offense, there has to be some kind of actually watching by eye component to gauging defense. I mean, Al Jefferson and Carlos Boozer are both 20+ and 10+ guys…the former’s defense is very bad, the latter’s mediocre at best. Dannie, when we are both working as NBA gms for expansion teams, I look forward to our differently architected teams!
Also, remember, I have always been one of Sammy’s biggest defenders and consider him an essential piece to our team that we should not even consider trading.
Greek: Your post at #110 is right on the money, I’m with you.
Dave T.…Thanks. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately. This blending of veteran leadership and youth really doesn’t seem like it’s going to be the answer for us (probably because we have a bit too much youth). I’m thinking that we are going to have either move in one direction (sacrificing some of our young talent to bring in enough proven, established players–including a #1–to win now) or the other (realizing that we have too much youth to win now and sacrifice our veterans—Brand and Miller—to build up a strong enough young team that will grow together and win in a couple years).
Of course because of Brand’s injury it’s very tough to get an accurate read on it. I’m ok with going your route, but it scares me. We will not know when and at what capacity Brand will come back, what we will get from him, and if he will indeed fit this team. We will need to resign Miller and if it doesn’t work out the way we hope it will, we could really get ourselves stuck. Should we decide next year that it isn’t working and that we should go with a youth movement, neither a subpar, misfit Brand nor an aging point guard with a 3-year contract will be easy to move. Stefanski better have a very strong feeling in his gut if he intends to proceed down this path, IMO.
That’s why I said under the DiLeo post last week that we should proceed without having Elton Brand as a major factor in the decision making process. Stefanski should look at this team as is and do what he thinks needs to be done to get us to the level of the other top tier teams in the league, whatever that entails (Keeping Miller or not. Trading Thad or not. Whatever.). Build the team to get as good as possible, period. Then next year Brand comes back. He does what he does. If he fits, great. That makes us even better. If he doesn’t, as difficult as it may be, move on, trade him, and continue building whatever way is best for the club.
I’d call it more of a “win as soon as possible” rather than a “win now” strategy. It may seem like merely semantics, but what I mean is for Stefanski to determine the best course of action and go with it, whatever it entails. He doesn’t necessarily need to sell out in an attempt to win now, but he can’t sit on the fence and wait indefinitely either.
Bski, I don!t think you can win without a mix of youth and experience. Okl. City is starting the add a veteren process now [Kristic] and clearing cap space to add a free agent. When this year ends E.S. should have a better idea on what moves to make. If either Spieghts or Thad show up bigtime on the big stage it may allow E.S. to tinker with the roster knowing he has a star already in the fold. Worst case he is given more amo with which to deal over the summer. If we get to the second round by beating Atlanta, as an example, he will have accomplished this teams goal without probably its second best player [Elton] and as in Atlanta when they took the Celts to 7 games all will be well in Sixerville.
Suede….I hope you’re right.
I realize you need a mix. I’m not suggesting to go 100% one way or the other, just that the mix we have doesn’t seem to be enough to get us to the level of the other top teams in the league. Now, that could be for a couple of reasons. 1) We do not have the right mix or 2) The quality of the young and/or veteran players we have is not good enough. This is what ES needs to tease out. Figure this out, set a solid foundation with the long term head coach and staff, institute the necessary offensive and defensive systems, and now we’re talking.
Are we worse off than most teams, look at the Raptors, if Bosh leaves they are starting over. If Cleveland gets Amare, a good possibility, he and Lebron can leave in 2001 if they want. Boston has another year tops and than they have to reload. It is so volatile out there that at the allstar break next year we may be happy that Elton is locked in for three more years. And guys like Sam, Willie and Reggie will become valuable commodities when they are in the last years of their deals so again, we are in a pretty good situation.
Tom Moore
If you get the chance to interview Iguodala. TELL HIM TO ENTER THE DUNK CONTEST! I don’t know who chooses who is in the contest, but I want an Iguodala and Robinson reunion and also, LeBron says he is in for next year.
One quick point about defensive statistics that I don’t think most people get or at least simply overlook. Basketball evaluation is largely based on a team’s efficiency in utilizing their possessions offensively and defends or takes away possessions defensively. With that in mind…
Saying steals are worthless makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Steals represent the acquisition of a possession and the taking away of a possession from the opponent. That is monumentally significant when talking about defense. Same goes for rebounds and partially blocks (when recovered).
Now these things are the end results that show up in the boxscore. Good defensive fundamentals, positioning, effort etc. lead to those end results (stats). But that doesn’t take away from the fact that “steal” in essence means a stolen possession from the opponent and the gaining of possession for your team. And that if FAR from worthless.
That is the reason we have stats to have some sort of measurements for the things (rotations, positioning, effort etc.) that go on during a possession.
guest– I’m with you on that one, as is Reggie Miller, who believed Iggy was robbed that year in 06. He should consider re-entering, especially if LeBron James is going to do it in Dallas. He deserves another chance and I’m sure there is no feeling like dunking that ball with authority!
Imagine though next year’s Dunk Contest as this:
-Andre Iguodala
-LeBron James
-Nate Robinson
-Dwight Howard
But kudos to Robinson to dress in green being the Kryptonite to Howard’s Superman. Kudos to Howard for being a true sport in assisting Robinson for the big time jam.
Also, J.R Smith and Rudy Fernandez simply chose the wrong guys to assist them. J.R should have had Billups, while Fernandez should have had Sergio Rodriguez (a different Spanish connection). All in all between Robinson and Howard, the Dunk Contest was Great, But It Could Be Greater next season if you include Iggy and LeBron. Now that will boost the ratings up!!
In the words of Beetlejuice, “It’s Showtime!”
Also, in the 3 Point Shooting Contest, it is just stunning that a guy the Sixers drafted, Daquean Cook, won the contest. (and we traded him to Miami, urggh Billy King!)
But the truth is for the contest to be most effective, you need true shooters that were meant for the contest:
-Ray Allen
-Peja Stojakovic
-Eddie House
-Dirk Nowitzki
Rob- I still dont understand why guys are so stupid in the dunk contest. They have no strategy. Dwight would have won it hands down if he did the off the side of the backboard dunk last. People should always do the best dunk last. Kudos to Nate, because he put on a show, as did Dwight.
The problem if iggy joins next year, is that the damn fan voting. Don’t let the fans decide anything, because time and time again they make the wrong choice. LeBron would win it hands down if the fans vote next year. Leave it to the judges that most of the time, know what they are doing. Its going to be exciting watching King James in the contest, but disable fan voting for the winner. Also, it is going to be hard to be creative. We have seen so much, whenever JR Smith does a nasty windmill we yawn. Creativity is what gets the crowd going, and is it possible to be more creative than Dwight, Nate, and Lebron? We will see next year for whoever wants to join them.
I thought Rudy!s behind the backboard was pretty impressive. Let!s get him and Cook as our 2 guards , then we could go places.
Well we’ll have our AMiller answer in a couple days. Going to the game wednesday. The point made earlier about not being able to move AMill or Brand next year is a good one. Even though I love his game, his age has me leaning towards making a move if the right young players are available. I know Ed said he will only trade if it makes his team better but I’m sure he is also thinking about the future. I feel a trade coming……………………..
Thanks Dave, it just kills me when people hate on Thad. Maybe they werent around when we drafted Kenny Payne to know what a failure is.
I thought Rudy’s behind the backboard dunk, and his struggle to pull it off, highkighted just how great Iguodala’s one was. I was surprised none of the commentators mentioed the parallel, and it would have been good to pull out the old clip (thanks to Brian at Depreeded fan)… www . youtube. com/watch?v=eKkVzaM-L_k
Article by Michael Lee from today’s Washington Post entitled “First-Half Story Lines; on Billups/AI, Free Agents, Kobe/Lebron, coaching changes:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/14/AR2009021401589.html
DUNK CONTEST COMMENTARY
Dwight, best physical specimen since Wilt; good sport.
Nate, The Manhattan Projectile or Grandson Of Flubber.
Pau Gasol, Rudy’s unconquering conquistador.
They all shot J.R.!
tk76
Also Iguodala was much farther off the ground. Rudy’s was nice cause he caught it one handed and jumped from a different angle. Iguodala jumped about the same distance but had to duck his head to the side so he didnt hit it on the backboard. I agree. Iguodala’s was nicer.
Interesting horse [Geico] contest. Mayo, easily, sinks left hand 15 footer. he reminds me of a young J.Dumars. Not a lot of flash but fundamentaly sound. Greek, If you meant me as a Thad hater, I am far from it, but watching Mayo,Gordon and Fernandez, three guys with more of a personality of a “stick the dagger” in type of scorer just makes me wonder if Thad will ever be more than a complimentary guy than a top flight player. I hope E.S., if the oppurtunity comes up, is not reluctant to use some of his young pieces at a position of strength to acquire a talent at a position of weakness. You have stated that Thad should not come off the bench, but that is a certainty next year when Elton comes back. With Sam, Elton,Reggie,Marreese and Jason next year at the 4/5 positions and Iggy at the 3 it will be a real juggling act to get Thad 30 minutes a night unless Iggy moves back to the 2 guard spot. That is why I personally would move L.Will.,Jason, a number 1 pick or Thad if a 2 guard is available that can step in and start. Azubuike, Dq. Cook, N.Young, Foye,Fernandez are a few examples. I am not a Thad hater but I am a Sixerz fan.
guest– I think Iggy should be one of the contestants for pure FUN and joy. I have some great ideas for him if he does join.
1. Iggy as Spider-Man. He has someone dressed as a bandit with the basketball, pulls the ball away from the bandit with a clear string, a ball on a string (Spidey’s webbing). While Iggy is running at full speed, Hip Hop with his protective gloves can lift him up high enough for him to pull out a spectacular finish, a sledgehammer or a 360 dunk . Also, attached to the backboard is a camera with a timer. Prior to landing on the ground on a soft platform near the basket,is a rope where he could swing and land on the platform. At the end, he could grab a “Daily Bugle” newspaper saying, “Spidey Wins Dunk Contest” or “Spidey Nabs Robber (picture of Nate Robinson).” If allowed, they should play one of the many Spider-Man themes out there.
Or another superhero he could do is Iron Man, which best describes the durable type of player he is. Play the Black Sabbath song, if allowed. Dunk a little after the song’s rift of “I Am Iron Man” comes up and execute a monster dunk, maybe a “Iron” sledgehammer.
2. Andre Miller or Lou Williams should assist him for one of his dunks to be absolutely sure the dunk is well practiced. Wild cards would be Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson again IF he can execute the dunk at such short notice. I don’t know what dunk that might be. Maybe you guys might have something.
3. The retro dunk. Dr. J should assist Iggy. Iggy should wear the Erving jersey. If you want to go further in showmanship and performance, along with the certainty of executing the dunk, he should wear an Afro and high socks. Maybe he should try one of Dr. J’s dunks. Dwight Howard attempting Dr. J was so-so.
I figure this weekend was the best time to talk about dunk suggestions for Iggy if he joins next year!!
Rob-
Ill piggy back off of your idea.
Have the newspaper attached to the backboard so when he dunks, he can grab the newspaper and go show it to the judges table with your caption, “Spidey nabs Robber”. Nate should be the bandit so he could put Nate’s picture on the paper.
Or maybe have Hip Hop sitting on a bench reading the newspaper and have Iggy jump over him and dunk it. Then he could proceed in giving the newspaper to the judges.
I’d give him a 50!
Another writer and I asked Stefanski about the chances the Sixers (Miller) and Magic (Turkoglu) could work out a trade by Thursday’s deadline to help fill each other’s needs with expiring contracts. His response: “In general, it just doesn’t work that easily. You’re almost in fantasy basketball right now. I don’t mean to be mean about it. It’s very difficult to make trades. Having said that, anybody is tradable.”
That’s part of my Sunday column at:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/sports/sixers.html
For me, a great, great New York Times Magazine piece by Michael Lewis (Moneyball author) on Shane freakin’ Battier and statistics. It won’t be everyone’s cup of tea…
Suede I wasn’t talkin about you specifically. Dude when Thad is old enough to grow a beard he is going to be un-freakin-stoppable. if ==================
If Speights proves to be the real deal I am expecting Brand to get traded next year.
Dannie: You make a great point (#127) about steals, which I hadn’t even thought about. I’m absolutely with what you said…steals as a team stat, is a very important statistic, for the reasons you listed. And you’re right…blanket statements like “worthless” usually suck and are full of holes, will never argue that.
So to rephrase: I believe steals, as a stat for an individual player, is the least beneficial stat out there as far as being able to understand an individual player’s total defensive prowess based on that stat alone. It can tell you some things about a player (usually that he gambles a lot, or plays with a good defensive center, or has nice quickness and hand-eye coordination)…but does not seem to be an important indicator of defensive ability for one person.
Greek: falling in love with talent and potential and holding onto it for dear life is a Billy King mistake. don’t over-commit. no one doubts his ability.