Let me set the stage real quick.
Eddie Jordan’s first season he has the team at 7-21. They were 12-16 after 28 games last season.
4.5 games out of of the 8th playoff spot.
5 more games on the road against tough opposition.
Elton Brand calling out teammates and questioning the way Jordan has been coaching.
Players still talking about thinking too much on offense because of Jordan’s fluff offense (by the way I am now fully convinced Ed Stefanski is a complete dope and was fooled by Eddie Jordan’s gimmicks during the interviewing process).
I also believe that the unexpected Boston win probably save Jordan’s job for a bit longer. BUT…
What if the Sixers come out of this road trip 0-6, which would also be 8 losses in a row. Could he really survive another losing streak of that magnitude? And if he does what exactly does that say about the state of this franchise and the mindset of the people in charge?
They already lost to the Wizards a sub par team. Tonight they have a much tougher opponent in Utah, which is most likely a loss.
There are two more tough games and two winnable games.
I fully expect the Sixers to lose at least 5 of 6 on this road trip leaving them with an 8-25 record.
If that isn’t enough reason to fire Eddie Jordan will there ever be?
About Tonight’s Game
No Iverson. Unlikely chance the starting line-up changes on the Sixers side.
No Korver or Millsap for the Jazz. But we won’t be dodging Deron Williams this time around and C.J. Miles is back from injury as well.
The Jazz are coming off two straight losses so they will be chomping at the bit to start righting the ship against the Sixers tonight.
I’ll be here during the game.
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{ 48 comments… read them below or add one }
Honestly, more losses will not strengthen the case for firing E.J. If 7-21 (and 3-15 in his final games as Wiz coach) is not enough losing to convince you he should not be a head coach then a few more losses won’t strengthen the case.
When a guys only positive is how he helps get more lottery balls…
Dannie: waxing prophetic? i think the stage is set too, has been set for some time, but he’s not gone already, i think a lil strong wording from Andre Iguodala, their supposed franchise player, will be the catalyst.
great we get Deron Williams.
key to having even a chance to win: START JRUE HOLIDAY. play him 48 minutes and hope for the best.
With 5 of their own former head coaches on the front office payroll (Shue, Lynam, Ayers, Ford, Dileo), replacing Jordan for the remainder of the season wouldn’t prove difficult. If team only falters, with occasional risings to sustain some optimism, I suspect that a major trade rather than a head coach will be executed by deadline. This deck needs reshuffling. Jordan knows it. Stefanski knows it. If free fall continues, whether due to player ineptitude or a disconnect between coach & players, not much choice, based on the economic ramifications of scant public interest and corresponding attendance: Mr. Jordan will return to Princeton with his offense untapped by a rather stupid assortment of mostly stupid players who were stupidly expected by head coach & GM to grasp game intracacies on the fly, with cross-habits already ingrained. There’s talent on the team but it’s an ugly mish-mash.
Maybe EJ can get a job for a Princeton, N.J. area JV team. Then he can legitimately say he’s coaching the P.O. and no one will care if his team is defenseless.
If your local H.S. hired E.J. as its new head coach…
tk76, Eddie Jordan deserves more respect than he’s being given (not a grand statement at this juncture). His players deserve less (not a popular statement at this juncture). Of course, they’re just my opinions.
I disagree completely JJG.
I don’t think anyone deserves more respect.
10 wins and 36 losses… but its the players.
Weren’t the Sixers a .500 team (playoffs X2 without Brand) for the 200 games before E.J. arrive to take us “uptown?”
I guess by uptown they meant to MSG for the Draft Lottery?
If you are paid millions by 2 different NBA teams and have E.J.’s track record you are fair game for criticism. I’m not criticizing some volunteer Jr High coach.
Dannie, With my present reading of practically no respect being afforded to Jordan, more, at least as it refers to time, seems reasonable, seeing as he’s coached only 28 games and has been handed a deck without Aces or Kings.
Your position is clear and understandable.
Two recent quotes from two days ago by Eddie Jordan… read them and then tell me why someone of this mindset should be out team’s coach?
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20091225_76ers__coach_stresses_defense.html
TK76 – That second quote feels like a editorial mistake. But I wouldn’t put it paste him.
JJG - 28 games should be enough time to evaluate a new coach with a “deck” that has a pretty predictable track record and expected level of performance over the last two seasons.
This team is not good. They are average as best. BUT they are not a bottom three team in the league either.
I see that as a large reflection of the head coaches inability to maximize what he has.
You always talk about the players. I don’t think anyone is arguing with you regarding the overall talent level. They are just okay. Nothing special. No leaders. No stars. The roster needs upgrading AND it needs to be sculpted better so that the talent fits better.
But with regard to Eddie Jordan my complaint is he isn’t maximizing. In fact he has the team player away from the few things they are capable of doing well both individually and as a team.
He puts a premium and most of his focus on the offensive end with a team that lacks overall shooting ability.
You of all people I would think would cringe at this type of coaching. Which is why your backing, if only moderate just seems strange to me.
So this is the Line-up E.J. has chosen for tonight. Defense optional…
PG: Lou Williams
SG: Wilie Green
SF: Iguodala
PF: Thad
C: Dalembert
I guess that marks the official end of Jrue for the season.
Luckily the Jazz are playing really really sloppy and tossing the ball around and missing lay-ups. Should be a 20 point game right now
Thaddeus Young has one…ONE…rebound going into the 4th quarter.
Watching the Utah’s offense and it just makes you wonder why other teams don’t duplicate it.
three straight disgusting shots from Lou
0 points in the fourth quarter right now. What a f’ing joke this team is.
This 4th quarter performance is absolutely abysmal.
Lou Williams really needs to start learning how to properly fight through screens. He’s getting burned every time Okur or Boozer set anything on him to open up Deron.
This team fucking quit. Makes me sick.
Bunch a losers. Everyone.
15 straight missed shots until Thad’s little turnaround shimmy. Wow.
Jrue getting locked up by Deron Williams. Respect your elder son.
Korver for three salt in the wounds.
I feel stupid to have even had hope… down 8 in the 3rd. I will not invest anything else emotionally into this team until I see better than that.
Inside the mind of Kyle Korver: “Basketball gods, I owe you one for getting me the !@#$ out of the Philly madhouse they call a basketball organization. Hey, Jerry, can you put me in for :30 seconds at the end of the game so I can nail a 3 against my former team who still desperately needs shooting? Thanks!”
I, would love to here the after game conversations between Stafanski and Jordan. What on earth is Stafanski saying to him. Would anyone like to guess?
“So Eddie, how did Basketball Boot Camp go?”
Thad is not a PF.
0 defensive rebounds in 32 minutes.
If you are so concerned about fixing the D then start and actual PF.
Small ball, grrrrr.
Can anyone here conceive of a good deffensive team that starts Lou at PG and Thad at PF? I guess they can further upgrade the defense when AI returns to the starting line up as the SG next to Lou… But there is always Defensive Boot Camp.
So has this team given up?
Reminds me of how they were playing 3 years ago, right before AI was traded.
They looked beat down. Deflated. Confused. And I think they start out in games with good intentions but if they get down and a team keeps the pedal to the metal they eventually quit in games.
They did int the fourth quarter of tonight’s game.
And of course Stefanski is in hiding.
In situations like this season it’s easy to blame the players, but they are the same guys that played around .500 ball the last two years. This is a coaching and management nightmare. No accountablity, no heart, no clue. I live in Atlanta where the city wanted Mike Woodson’s head for years and all he’s done was get his team to improve season to season. Weren’t we better that the Hawks a few years ago?
Three straight years with a different coach. Three straight years of drafting “project type” players. Three straight years of NO visible plan for the future.
The players are who they are, clones of each other at their respective positions. AI2=Thad, Willie=Carney, AI=Lou. I don’t get it at all. Playoff experience was supposed to help this team but it looks like making the playoffs the last two seasons actually hurt them.
If I were Stefanski I would look at Portland as my model to rebuild. Get rid of as many current players as possible for as many expiring contracts and draft picks as possible.
Dannie,
The title of your post should’ve been “is this the beginning of the end for Ed Stefanski”. He is the one that hired Jordan. He is the one that hasn’t fired him yet because they’re buddies. Firing Jordan is not the answer because I have no confidence in Stefanski’s next choice of coach.
Top to bottom, this organization is in shambles. Really, Luuko and Snider need to go but that won’t happen. The best thing would be to get a real GM and let him get his own coach.
(sorry, repost)
In the past, when I complained about Miller artificially keeping this team afloat, one of the counter arguments was you need structure to evaluate/develop your young talent. I’m starting to see how important this is.
Yes, getting a high pick has the potential to save this franchise- if we get lucky. But Its hard to actually figure out what this team has when it implodes on a nightly basis. On top of that they seem to be playing non-traditional schemes on offence and defense, further muddling player development and evaluation.
I hope management can make heads or tails out of what we are seeing from some of the young players- because I sure can’t. It will soon be time to decide whether to build around or trade some of the young mismatched players while their value is high
I am at a lost as to what to write about this team right now.
I am tired of writing rant posts about how bad the players are. How bad Eddie Jordan is. How invisible Ed Stefanski has been.
I don’t want to start dedicating all my time to the draft yet either.
So what really is there to say about this team and franchise?
I don’t think this team is in that bad a shape. They are a playoff team if they had a true PG and coach. That’s what they were last year when they had those two components. You add Jrue Holiday to that and you should still be a playoff team.
The organization, however, is a different story. We need ownership that doesn’t regard the Sixers as 2nd class citizens to the Flyers in priority. We need a top 5 GM. Not a competent GM. Not a below average GM like Stefanski. You bring in a good GM brings who brings in a good coach, who works towards maximizing his players’ strengths and stresses defense, and a true PG and this team is right back in the mix.
I’d feel better about this year if we can get that change along with a high draft pick. Sadly, I don’t see a change in GM any time soon.
Explain:
-What we should be looking at when we watch these games. What development and skills do we need to see form individual players. How to decide who to keep and who to sell high.
-Explain the individual differences in how players are performing this season compared to the prior 200 games when they were a .500 team.
-Start talking about the opononet. Provide some of their back story and how their season has gone and what they will try and do against the Sixers. This might help us measure how well the Sixers do in countering it.
Describe it like we are sending our inexperienced boxer into the ring against a top fighter. We might not expect the win, but there should be specifics to look for that will tell whether the underdog is learning to counter and has the raw potential to eventually win.
-
Dannie, I’m not backing Jordan necessarily (didn’t like the hire; reread my early comments if you doubt it), am just not digging a hole for him with a backhoe (as many seem bent to do) at this point – 29 gms in – because unprepared-for-success players litter the roster and, by sad necessity, the playing floor. If anyone should catch the brunt of the blame it is the roster creationist, Stefanski. And a generous helping of the rap should be heaped at the feet of Brand, Iguodala and Dalembert – the wealthiest players on the roster who gladly take the loot but who fail miserably as team leaders/spiritual wellsprings and who fail as dependable rallying figures, in both play and demeanor. Hefty contracts imply hefty responsibilities, like it or not.
This team IS NOT comparable in composition to last year’s, thus a “predictable track record” is out the window. Gone – veterans Miller, Evans, Ratliff, Marshall, Rush; arrived – veterans ”Kaboom” Kapono (stiff), Bresac (invisible), Carney
(recycled), raw rookie Holiday. Increased responsibility – Williams (uh oh), Speights (uh oh). Injury returns: Brand (grandstander; malcontent; recent subversive voice; underwhelming player), Smith (stiff). Injuries: Williams, Speights, Brand. Homecoming concert pause: Iverson.
Some different and extenuating circumstances and conditions have entered since last Spring’s Magic Series finale meltdown. Jordan is just one of them. I’m not willing to scapegoat him like some are; once hired, deserves more of a chance than 1/3 of a year. His tenure to date has certainly been unimpressive. On the other hand, I watched the guy play guard well for a Rutgers team that ran the table in ‘76 regular season, made Final Four. I’m confident that Jordan’s not a basketball dunce like some of his charges. And if time isn’t a curative, change will eventually take place.
It’s a player’s league, isn’t that the conventional wisdom? Giddyup, 76ers players.
I believe, If Dileo takes this Team over this year his line up would look like this… Sammy, Brand, Iggy, Iverson, Holliday, Stressing defense first, don’t play tuff defense you loose your starting spot. Off the bench, Smith, Speights, Thad, Carney, and Lou at there respective positions. The bench need to play tough, high energy basketball, or loose your min. Smith can handle the center position when he gets steady min.(not like the 2 to 3 min. a game he’s getting now. Speights should come off the bench till he plays decent defense. Splitting Thad and Iggy will maxamize boths potential. Thad has to rebound every night. Carney should give rests to Iggy, Thad, and put anywhere to keep our legs fresh. Green should fill in where needed. Kapono would be used in a selective role. Who ever was responsible for selecting, Bresac should be fired. What lineups I wrote are not perfect but I believe having a defense first line up will give us some stability. Holliday looks like the best all round point guard on our Team. If Dileo keeps Holliday in the starting lineup with good min.for the rest of the year, we will have our point guard position sealed up for next year. Would like to here suggestions from you guys. Dannie, you have a great site, You write it we will read it. Thank You
Te above sounds like a reasonable palne, and could give you strong defense from the starters and strong offense from the bench. The only things I’d worry about is
- Making sure Thad gets enough minutes to ciontinue his development as a SF (needs a lot of work.)
-Holiday is most effective on the ball, covering PG’s. But next to AI he will be cover SG’s. Not a bidg deal, just less than ideal. But overall I like the AI/Jrue back court. It would help the offensive flow immensely.
They won’t bench Thad. Not happening unless they bring in an elite wing player.
You’r probably right. But I’d rather see Thad get 25 min mostly at Sf off the nech then have him start at PF. Never been a fan of that small ball line up. Thad just can’t rebound well enough to be your starting PF. Like I posted earlier at Derek’s site:
Defensive rebounding percentage is an estimate of what % of available defensive rebounds a player grabs. In general 18% is good and 24% or above is great. Elite defensive rebounders like Duncan and Boozer are 26% for career. Rodaman was 29.6% Most top defensive rebounders are 24% or better. For example, Sam is 24.6% for his career.
Defensive rebounding percentage this season:
Sam: 27.4% (somewhat inflated by playing next to Thad, so less competition)
Brand: 15.9% (Down from career average of 19.1%)
Speights: 18.1%
Young: 11.4% (career 12.3- somewhat artificially lowered given plays 1/2 minutes at SF)
Iguodala 17.6 (career 14.4)
Thad has no business playing PF. You cannot have your PF rebounding at a lower rate than the average NBA SF. The only saving grace is that Iguodala has been a beast on the boards considering he is splitting minutes at SG and SF.
Stats per Basketball reference.
I understand about defensive rebounding percentage. I think they would go with him at SF and Iggy at the two with either Speights or Brand starting PF before they even consider moving Thad to the bench.
They have been pushing him into the starting line-up one way or another for two years now. I think this is setting themselves up for disaster when his rookie deal is up.
They have two legit PFs on the roster and they still force Thad into the line-up there for whatever internal reasons (not basketball reasons).
I know why Eddie Jordan likes him there. He thinks he is the Sixers version of Jamison (the made up position of stretch forward – GIMMICKS)
I think Thad is a bench player period. That’s just my opinion. I don’t think he and Iguodala fit together long-term. I like Iggy better since he does more.
I think they need to get an elite player on the wing to play with Iguodala (SG/SF doesn’t matter as long as he can shoot from the perimeter) and bring Thad off the bench.
If Speights never develops any defensive ability I find it hard to start him either. I just can’t have a guy at PF that can’t defend man-to-man inside and protect the paint.
He has some time to get to at least average defensive and maybe he can be like Amare or Boozer who both are average at best defenders and strong offensive players.
Lou has no place on my ideal team.
And Jrue is TBD. He’s looked quite bad offensively lately and his off the ball defense hinders his overall defensive impact because he is falling into the overhelping trap the rest of the scrubs are and he tends to watch the ball and lose shooters. But there certainly is potential there.
Dannie, I was trying to be patronizing by explaining the sat. I just copied it out of the blog post, and I wanted it to be clear to a casual fan.
As for which players they should keep and who they should try to get value in a trade… I’m having a harder time making up my mind. The more the team falls apart the harder to develop and properly evaluate the talent. I honestly have no ideal how some of these players would be performing on a really good team. And even when they were winning last year it was so haphazard it’s hard to project their games on a well executed team.
Typo (but oddly funny.) meant to say “Dannie, I was NOT trying to be patronizing by explaining the stat.”
No offense taken at all TK don’t worry about it.
I think who they keep and who they move depends on what replacement players are available or being targeted as well as what the team needs.
We obviously need a super elite player. I honestly don’t care what position that guys comes. I’d trade anyone to get that guy so in that respect I am not really thinking of who we should keep or not. I am thinking more in terms of let’s build this thing the right way. You build around a franchise player. You can’t know who to keep or who should be on the roster until you know who your franchise guy is and what his strengths and weaknesses are.
That’s what made the 2001 run so perfect. Larry Brown very clearly knew what AI brought to the table and he built around him the right way.
That is how you do it.
Guys, you can probably get away with one below average defender, not a best case scenerio, but who do you choose to keep? Between Thad and Marreese I think Marreese is a more natural 4 than Thad a 3 but in a few years?
Dannie: I think Stefanski is dealing from such a position of weakness, trade-wise that the only way to acquire that star player is by luck in the draft.
Morty – I think in general the way to acquire a franchise player is largely due to luck.
Either getting lucky in the draft or getting lucky enough to find a GM dumb enough to trade an elite player in their prime or close to it.
But only certain teams are in position to be lucky. Mediocre teams against the tax have no shot at getting a superstar through the draft or trade.