Comments on: Sixers vs. Jazz: The Beginning of the End for Eddie Jordan? http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/ Philly sports blog for diehard Sixers & Phillies fans Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:24:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: tk76 http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25917 tk76 Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:59:45 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25917 But only certain teams are in position to be lucky.  Mediocre teams against the tax have no shot at getting a superstar through the draft or trade. But only certain teams are in position to be lucky.  Mediocre teams against the tax have no shot at getting a superstar through the draft or trade.

]]> By: Dannie http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25915 Dannie Mon, 28 Dec 2009 03:51:20 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25915 <p><strong><em>Morty</em></strong> - I think in general the way to acquire a franchise player is largely due to luck.</p> <p>Either getting lucky in the draft or getting lucky enough to find a GM dumb enough to trade an elite player in their prime or close to it.</p> Morty – I think in general the way to acquire a franchise player is largely due to luck.

Either getting lucky in the draft or getting lucky enough to find a GM dumb enough to trade an elite player in their prime or close to it.

]]> By: Morty http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25914 Morty Mon, 28 Dec 2009 03:41:44 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25914 Dannie: I think Stefanski is dealing from such a position of weakness, trade-wise that the only way to acquire that star player is by luck in the draft. Dannie: I think Stefanski is dealing from such a position of weakness, trade-wise that the only way to acquire that star player is by luck in the draft.

]]> By: deepsixersuede http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25913 deepsixersuede Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:22:44 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25913 Guys, you can probably get away with one below average defender, not a best case scenerio, but who do you choose to keep? Between Thad and Marreese I think Marreese is a more natural 4 than Thad a 3 but in a few years? Guys, you can probably get away with one below average defender, not a best case scenerio, but who do you choose to keep? Between Thad and Marreese I think Marreese is a more natural 4 than Thad a 3 but in a few years?

]]> By: Dannie http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25912 Dannie Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:16:36 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25912 <p>No offense taken at all TK don't worry about it.</p> <p>I think who they keep and who they move depends on what replacement players are available or being targeted as well as what the team needs.</p> <p>We obviously need a super elite player.  I honestly don't care what position that guys comes. I'd trade anyone to get that guy so in that respect I am not really thinking of who we should keep or not.  I am thinking more in terms of let's build this thing the right way.  You build around a franchise player.  You can't know who to keep or who should be on the roster until you know who your franchise guy is and what his strengths and weaknesses are.</p> <p>That's what made the 2001 run so perfect.  Larry Brown very clearly knew what AI brought to the table and he built around him the right way.</p> <p>That is how you do it.</p> No offense taken at all TK don’t worry about it.

I think who they keep and who they move depends on what replacement players are available or being targeted as well as what the team needs.

We obviously need a super elite player.  I honestly don’t care what position that guys comes. I’d trade anyone to get that guy so in that respect I am not really thinking of who we should keep or not.  I am thinking more in terms of let’s build this thing the right way.  You build around a franchise player.  You can’t know who to keep or who should be on the roster until you know who your franchise guy is and what his strengths and weaknesses are.

That’s what made the 2001 run so perfect.  Larry Brown very clearly knew what AI brought to the table and he built around him the right way.

That is how you do it.

]]> By: tk76 http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25911 tk76 Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:11:15 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25911 Typo (but oddly funny.)  meant to say "Dannie, I was NOT trying to be patronizing by explaining the stat." Typo (but oddly funny.)  meant to say “Dannie, I was NOT trying to be patronizing by explaining the stat.”

]]> By: tk76 http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25910 tk76 Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:10:14 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25910 Dannie, I was trying to be patronizing by explaining the sat.  I just copied it out of the blog post, and I wanted it to be clear to a casual fan.   As for which players they should keep and who they should try to get value in a trade... I'm having a harder time making up my mind.  The more the team falls apart the harder to develop and properly evaluate the talent.  I honestly have no ideal how some of these players would be performing on a really good team.  And even when they were winning last year it was so haphazard it's hard to project their games on a well executed team. Dannie, I was trying to be patronizing by explaining the sat.  I just copied it out of the blog post, and I wanted it to be clear to a casual fan.
 
As for which players they should keep and who they should try to get value in a trade… I’m having a harder time making up my mind.  The more the team falls apart the harder to develop and properly evaluate the talent.  I honestly have no ideal how some of these players would be performing on a really good team.  And even when they were winning last year it was so haphazard it’s hard to project their games on a well executed team.

]]> By: Dannie http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25909 Dannie Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:03:31 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25909 <p>I understand about defensive rebounding percentage.  I think they would go with him at SF and Iggy at the two with either Speights or Brand starting PF before they even consider moving Thad to the bench.</p> <p>They have been pushing him into the starting line-up one way or another for two years now.  I think this is setting themselves up for disaster when his rookie deal is up.</p> <p>They have two legit PFs on the roster and they still force Thad into the line-up there for whatever internal reasons (not basketball reasons).</p> <p>I know why Eddie Jordan likes him there.  He thinks he is the Sixers version of Jamison (the made up position of stretch forward - GIMMICKS)</p> <p>I think Thad is a bench player period.  That's just my opinion.  I don't think he and Iguodala fit together long-term.  I like Iggy better since he does more.</p> <p>I think they need to get an elite player on the wing to play with Iguodala (SG/SF doesn't matter as long as he can shoot from the perimeter) and bring Thad off the bench.</p> <p>If Speights never develops any defensive ability I find it hard to start him either.  I just can't have a guy at PF that can't defend man-to-man inside and protect the paint.</p> <p>He has some time to get to at least average defensive and maybe he can be like Amare or Boozer who both are average at best defenders and strong offensive players.</p> <p>Lou has no place on my ideal team.</p> <p>And Jrue is TBD.  He's looked quite bad offensively lately and his off the ball defense hinders his overall defensive impact because he is falling into the overhelping trap the rest of the scrubs are and he tends to watch the ball and lose shooters.  But there certainly is potential there.</p> I understand about defensive rebounding percentage.  I think they would go with him at SF and Iggy at the two with either Speights or Brand starting PF before they even consider moving Thad to the bench.

They have been pushing him into the starting line-up one way or another for two years now.  I think this is setting themselves up for disaster when his rookie deal is up.

They have two legit PFs on the roster and they still force Thad into the line-up there for whatever internal reasons (not basketball reasons).

I know why Eddie Jordan likes him there.  He thinks he is the Sixers version of Jamison (the made up position of stretch forward – GIMMICKS)

I think Thad is a bench player period.  That’s just my opinion.  I don’t think he and Iguodala fit together long-term.  I like Iggy better since he does more.

I think they need to get an elite player on the wing to play with Iguodala (SG/SF doesn’t matter as long as he can shoot from the perimeter) and bring Thad off the bench.

If Speights never develops any defensive ability I find it hard to start him either.  I just can’t have a guy at PF that can’t defend man-to-man inside and protect the paint.

He has some time to get to at least average defensive and maybe he can be like Amare or Boozer who both are average at best defenders and strong offensive players.

Lou has no place on my ideal team.

And Jrue is TBD.  He’s looked quite bad offensively lately and his off the ball defense hinders his overall defensive impact because he is falling into the overhelping trap the rest of the scrubs are and he tends to watch the ball and lose shooters.  But there certainly is potential there.

]]> By: tk76 http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25908 tk76 Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:59:13 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25908 You'r probably right.  But I'd rather see Thad get 25 min mostly at Sf off the nech then have him start at PF.  Never been a fan of that small ball line up.  Thad just can't rebound well enough to be your starting PF.  Like I posted earlier at Derek's site: <em>Defensive rebounding percentage</em> is an estimate of what % of available defensive rebounds a player grabs. In general 18% is good and 24% or above is great. Elite defensive rebounders like Duncan and Boozer are 26% for career. Rodaman was 29.6% Most top defensive rebounders are 24% or better. For example, Sam is 24.6% for his career. Defensive rebounding percentage this season: Sam: 27.4% (somewhat inflated by playing next to Thad, so less competition) Brand: 15.9% (Down from career average of 19.1%) Speights: 18.1% Young: 11.4% (career 12.3- somewhat artificially lowered given plays 1/2 minutes at SF) Iguodala 17.6 (career 14.4) Thad has no business playing PF. You cannot have your PF rebounding at a lower rate than the average NBA SF. The only saving grace is that Iguodala has been a beast on the boards considering he is splitting minutes at SG and SF. Stats per Basketball reference. You’r probably right.  But I’d rather see Thad get 25 min mostly at Sf off the nech then have him start at PF.  Never been a fan of that small ball line up.  Thad just can’t rebound well enough to be your starting PF.  Like I posted earlier at Derek’s site:
Defensive rebounding percentage is an estimate of what % of available defensive rebounds a player grabs. In general 18% is good and 24% or above is great. Elite defensive rebounders like Duncan and Boozer are 26% for career. Rodaman was 29.6% Most top defensive rebounders are 24% or better. For example, Sam is 24.6% for his career.

Defensive rebounding percentage this season:
Sam: 27.4% (somewhat inflated by playing next to Thad, so less competition)
Brand: 15.9% (Down from career average of 19.1%)
Speights: 18.1%
Young: 11.4% (career 12.3- somewhat artificially lowered given plays 1/2 minutes at SF)
Iguodala 17.6 (career 14.4)

Thad has no business playing PF. You cannot have your PF rebounding at a lower rate than the average NBA SF. The only saving grace is that Iguodala has been a beast on the boards considering he is splitting minutes at SG and SF.

Stats per Basketball reference.

]]> By: Dannie http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-vs-jazz-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-eddie-jordan/#comment-25907 Dannie Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:34:40 +0000 http://www.reclinergm.com/?p=8725#comment-25907 <p>They won't bench Thad.  Not happening unless they bring in an elite wing player.</p> They won’t bench Thad.  Not happening unless they bring in an elite wing player.

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