This might be it for us. The Sixers are currently 7th in the draft standings and only:
- 1/2 game out of 6th
- 1 game out of 5th
- 2 games out of 4th
4th is the money spot for the Sixers and they need to do everything in their power to get there (aka playing Jason Kapono as much as possible). The next three games are the key.
We play the Knicks tonight, the Nets Wednesday and the Knicks again Friday. These ALL need to be losses.
Why?
Well obviously any loss is a good loss. But this is by far the easiest stretch of games for the Sixers the rest of the season and we can’t have them going on any sort of winning streak. Also we have the same record as the Knicks and there is an added bonus of losing to them head-to-head.
Three losses in these game would perfectly set the stage for the Sixers to really collapse and bottom out the rest of the way against teams that fit into 3 categories:
- Teams clearly better than the Sixers
- Marginal teams fighting to either get in or stay in the playoffs
- Teams as bad as the Sixers where the game could easily go either way
The great thing about the remaining schedule is the vast majority of teams fit in one of the first two categories. Only Detroit and MAYBE Memphis fit in the 3rd category with Chicago falling there only because of injuries.
So who are you rooting for tonight?
This is your game thread.
I bet they go 3-0 and just f everything up.
Ed R. – Let’s hope T-mac goes off or something this week and Eddie Jordan decides to have Kapono defend him all game.
I think they go 1-2, losing to NY and NJ once each. that’ll keep us in it!
Yeah I am hoping T-Mac drops 30 a game vs our guys. Other teams around them are finally starting to lose consistently, the Sixers better not screw it up. A top 4 pick would be amazing.
Wow this is nerve racking, i haven’t been this interested in the sixers in years, albeit because i want them to lose… this would be a big victory if we lose this game. and if we could manage to lose to jersey that wold be massive!!!
dannie if ur picking at lets say the 3 or 4 spot and evans and wall are off the board are you taking favours or cousin? I just don’t know who i would take! And why would you take one as opposed to the other?
Nice. The Knicks got the job done.
Favors. His body looks more lively and he is probably a better defender right now.
Crazy when i left the sixers was up at halftime i come back they lose the game. I know the best thing for them is to lose but man i guess keep up the good work sixers cant wait till the playoffs start and watch my team not in it. Dannie curious who do u like in march madness ?????? I dont follow college basketball but im looking forward to it. Naturally my favorite team is going to be maryland cause i am from there but tell me do u know anything about there center monroe i believe his name is ???? heard some people on espn talking about him whats ur opinion of him ?????
Amen. For a second there I thought the Sixers were going to pull it out and thus disappoint.
Dannie, I agree; Favors looks like an Amare that is willing to defend and he is showing a good midrange jumper lately. I have Kansas beating W.Virginia in the final; my shocker is Texas taking out Kentucky, with Pittman and Cousins they better reenforce the floor.
Losing! Sorry I hate it. What if the Sixers were picking #9 in the draft. Are there only 8 good players in this draft? If they don’t get to #4 you mean there aren’t at least 5 or 6 really good players to choose from? This is twisted and I’m not falling for the tanking bit. Get rid of this moron coach and finish the season strong. This is ridiculous. Iggy saw no shot he wasn’t afraid to take tonight. The wheels have come off.
What if this team goes 0-fer the rest of the year and end up picking last in the lottery? Last time I checked the lottery guaranteed nothing. Who’s the say they will pick the best player or the right player? This is a bad idea.
Rose even though I would like these guys to get a good player, I dislike the tanking as well. To me its a two edged sword. On one side you realized the season is lost and haven’t much to gain by winning games. However if a team tanks a season, as a fan I can no longer have the confidence in the current roster to get ANYTHING done for as long as those 14 or 15 guys are there. To me a team tanking say the current roster doesn’t believe they themselves are shit, and are such losers that they would bestow all hope on a rookie.
Im not accusing these guys of a full on tank yet. But the 29 pts in the second half of this game, against a team that plays minimal defense to say the least, isn’t good.
Also Iggy seriously needs to “Josh Smith” his 3 ball attempts.
Not only was it a loss, but also a blown lead. That’s clutch. Well done fellas.
Garvey, lets look at some of the recent top teams and see how much tanking hurt them:
Cavs: Seriously tanked to get Lebron
Celtics: Epic tank before they made the KG trade
Spurs: tanked from 59 -> 20 wins to get Duncan.
Magic: History of winning the lottery 3 times in a 10 year span… has not seemed to destroy their franchise. Including a 21 win season before getting Dwight.
Denver: 17 win season before getting Melo.
Mavs: Won 20 and then 19 games to get Dirk.
…Now I’m sure not all of those teams “tanked” down the sttretch thiose horrible years. But those teams were horrible and now lead the league. No reason why the same thing can happen to the Sixers.
The Sixers future depends on getting a top flight superstar to build a contender around.
The 4th worse team has a 40% chance at winning a top 3 pick.
The 9th worst team has a 6%.
2 games separates those teams… and therein lies the Sixers future. Not with the current guys wearing the uniforms.
I’m sorry the people that say not to tank and lose the rest of the season don’t get how basketball is structured nor do they understand the talent arc of the draft.
Players picked in the top 3 is immensely better than someone picked 8 or 9 on average and looking at the draft this year that is very clearly the case. It’s not about getting a “good player” it’s about getting the best possible player and a higher draft pick puts you in position to do that and get lucky.
Think about it…
Is another Thaddeus Young or Marreese Speights really going to help this team get much better? I don’t think so and neither should anyone else. We need a John Wall, Evan Turner, Derrick Favors type talent to come into this franchise. In fact, I think we need more than that. I think the Sixers should have been selling weak uses parts and stockpiling picks so that they have optionS in the draft.
What does finishing the season strong do? What does that “guarantee you?” Please Garvey and RROSE answer this question. What benefits does that provide? How does that help the team long-term? It clearly doesn’t improve our lottery chances, i.e. the ability to upgrade the roster via the draft. Considering we aren’t a team politicking for a top free agent to come here our image as a winner or loser really isn’t in play right now. Losing DOES guarantee you something. It guarantees you have a higher percentage chance of landing a top draft pick. That is a FACT and that is all the Sixers or anyone can control so that should be the focus. Putting yourself in a better position to get lucky. That is how the NBA is structured.
If you still have any faith in this roster (14-15 guys as is) at this point even if they did “finish the season strong” you are already “falling for it” in fact, falling for it in a much worse way.
Look back at the year AI was traded. That team closed strong (won 18 of their last 25) relying on Joe Smith and Andre Miller.
That team drafted 12th (Thad.) The teams that won the 1st and second picks (Portland and Seattle) won 3 and 4 less games than the Sixers. I guess you can say that Oden has been a bust due to injury, but I’d rather have a legit shot at an Oden or Durant type talent then have no shot at all. because dropping top 12th in that daft meant they had <2% chance of winning a top 3 lottery pick.
But I’m not for tanking complete seasons… but when it is clear that the playoffs are unlikely, then you evaluate/develop talent and forget about winning. that is how the current good teams got that way.
TK’a liat of accomplished tanks reminds me of passing the ball one too many times. Perhaps overdone.
Some of those “tanks”, however you define it maybe were just plain bad teams?
Some of those teams are /were contenders, but still don’t sport rings. Admittedly, to this point. Denver, Orlando, Dallas. Even Cleveland. The Dallas club did not get Dirk as a highly sought after much publicized top prospect so much as Don Nelson’s effectively scouting the globe (at least that’s my recollection, on which I could be wrong). They were just a bad ballclub that benefitted positioning wise by Roy Tarpley tanking his career up his nose.
My memory tells me Dirk was a mid round first pick. My memory is not always right.
Also, while every one of those on the list are successful “tanks”, I have to assume there are other supposed “tanks” that have failed. Witness the LA Clippers, who seem to have been on the clock more often than the oft publized New York Jets in a different draft.
Sometimes you luck into the right draft pick, but a more consistent predictor is strength in management at the top, i.e., the GM position. You want the right picker at the top for either that one successful tank, or series of same since it may take more than 1 player to overhaul this sorry season. Seems to me that’s a bigger decision than to tank or not to tank. And even harder is finding the right guy to step in. It was easy enough to fire Elgin Baylor from making Clipper decisions, but how successful have they been in the ensuing seasons?
Anyway you look at it, it’s a disspirting situation to be in.
I am still undecided on Cousins and Favors. We really should have grabbed a late first rounder though for Iggy. It makes me sick that we stood pat and got rid of our second for Meeks. Disgusting! This tourney will tell us a lot though. Who wants it? I think Turner is going to rise to the top and Wall is gonna fall on his ass. I just think Turner wants it more, maybe its his age, but I can just see a fire in Turner that I don’t see in Favors, Cousins, or Wall. I’ll tell you who else I like that has that fire, that will to win, and he reminds me of a ’03 Marquette player playing in Miami now. He took his team on his shoulders and just has a knack for winning. De’saun Butler! He reminds me of a young Wade. He is projected in the early 2nd. Could you imagine if we could get Turner and Butler somehow? Oh wait we want Jodie Meeks instead!
Dirk was the 9th pick selected right after we (Larry Brown) picked Larry Hughes 8th and Pierce was picked 10th.
Dirk to Dallas was some pre-draft maneuvering and planning. Don Nelson wanted Nash AND Dirk and worked out a deal to get them both.
1998 is a pretty underrated draft historically and the Sixers (Larry Brown) f’d it up.
I don’t like Butler. I think he is a very good college player that doesn’t project to carry that over as well as a pro. Besides Wade just being immensely better, Butler isn’t weak athletically compared to Wade. I don’t think Butler is anything at all like Wade. Don’t like that comparison. Think it really, really disrespects Wade actually.
Follow up – Concerns with Butler for me:
Dannie, My problem with tanking is you aren’t guaranteed anything. They had an opportunity to get Amare for the deal involving Iggy. Now whether its personal opinion that you or anyone else likes or dislikes Amare, one thing is for sure. He is the closest thing to a Superstar this team could have gotten right away. Aside from a few injuries he’s a talented player. Add that along with a lost season this year could have brought about a top 5 pick anyway. So couple him with one of the best players in this years draft changes not only the fan base’s perception that this team is moving in the right direction but it puts 2 players at the center of the franchise.
Now, sure Amare could have opted not to stay but why would the Sixers allow him to leave? Pay him his worth and put the franchise around him with good young players. Like Thad, Jrue, (top pick) Speights. The thought this organization actually concocted a “tanking” solution is to intelligent for their own good. The Sixers have no shot at Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Bosh and the like. But they could have gotten a proven NBA All Star power forward or center and put a strong young drafted player along side of him this year and ticket sales rise next year.
Losing breeds more losing. The last 3 years they will have been .500 or below. So I’d like to see them above that mark within the next 3 years if at all possible. I mean really. What does all this losing do to guys like Jrue, Thad, Speights? Add more confidence? IMO basketball is 80% confidence, 20% skill level. Its within that 20% you find 2% of guys who become exceptionally great. I don’t see any player out of college that looks the part. This organization has passed up on quite a few of them over the years. And look Larry Brown has his buddy Larry Hughes back. Thanks LB for drafting him over Pierce, Dirk.
The point I was trying to make is that this whole “losing culture” thing is crap. Just like getting a few playoff teams with a flawed team is not the way to build a contender. When you have a horrible team like the Sixers the future does not rest with the current players. Winning will not come until they acquire a top level star and then restructure the roster to fit with that star.
I listed all of the horrible years the current top teams had to show that losing seasons do not cause a “losing culture.” The Cavs were a lot like the Clippers before they got Lebron. And they will be bad again if he leaves. It is a star’s league, more than any other sport. You don’t “build” a great team like you can in baseball or football. The good GM’s know that you get a great player first and only then can you start “building” or worrying about things like “a winning culture.”
RRose wrote:
” IMO basketball is 80% confidence, 20% skill level.”
Really?
I wasn’t trying to compare Butler to Wade as far as skill level is concerned. Butler has a whole lot of learning to do to reach Wade’s natural ability. My point was merely that they both have that bell that goes off that they are going to win this game right here and there isn’t much that can stop them. Butler just gets it. I know I am reeling off cliches’ but there is something to be said about that ability. Turner has it Butler has it, Scottie reynolds has it. I don’t think Wall has that yet. By far the most talented is Wall, maybe not that far ahead of Turner, but Wall has a lot to learn. Three freshman leading a team does not help his learning process. You need a junior or senior to help you along.
Wade has “it”, but he also is a ridiculous athlete. Make him (or MJ) and average NBA athlete and they would not be superstars.
IMO “getting it” is necessary, but so is either elite athleticism or a pure jumper. You lack both and you will not be a star. And that has been the case in the NBA for a long time.
I pretty much agree with TK.
Confidence for an individual player comes from getting minutes and performing well as an individual first. Knowing you went out there and played to the best of your ability. Especially when you are young. Winning helps, absolutely but ONLY if you are a winning contributor. And losing doesn’t hurt as much as people think. Players understand losing is part of the game and understand they don’t have 100% control over winning games. All they have is 100% control over how they play.
We are seeing this now with Jrue. The kids confidence is sky high in the midst of losing 10 out of 11 games. Why? Because he is starting, getting more minutes and free rein to play his game and do his best.
This statement is simply false and misses the point of how the NBA is structured.
Winning guarantees that your probability of landing an exceptional talent is low.
Losing guarantees that your probability of landing an exceptional talent is higher.
Those are facts, not opinion. 40% chance is better than 2% chance. Why the hell would you want 2% over 40%? That simply doesn’t make any sense.
We just differ on Amare. I think he is a good player not an elite player and specifically as a whole I don’t think he gives you more than Iguodala does. He gives you different production because they play different positions but not more production overall. If the choice is Amare or Iguodala, I’ll keep Iguodala. I’d rather the choice be Iguodala AND Amare or Iguodala and Brand. I think Amare provides scoring punch and athleticism at PF to make up for Iguodala’s weakness as a half court scorer. But also works well with Jrue’s developing playmaking ability and Iguodala’s playmaking ability.
That wasn’t an option. Also moving just Iguodala for substantial cap space wasn’t an option either.
Also, I think there are still moves to be done and everyone should settle down a bit. Just because we didn’t make a move at the deadline doesn’t mean we won’t make a move this summer when the market of teams with money to spend is wider for the players on our roster.
Also, I think it’s prudent to wait until you figure out who you coach is and the vision and way he expects to play before making a major deal.
All that is besides for the point for me. You get better via the draft and/or you know how to work the cap and are an elite deal maker. One is easier than the other for me. Stockpiling draft picks is doable for most GMs, whereas building a team via free agency and trades is significantly harder to do.
The Sixers have failed in both regards. Not necessarily with the players they’ve drafted. But by limiting their options in the draft to one pick a season.
The Sixers are horrible as a franchise. We need 100% house cleaning starting with ownership and management. Then let some smarter people figure out the player and coaching situations.
But losing helps because it positions you to upgrade the roster via the draft ESPECIALLY for a team that puts all it’s eggs in one basket by only drafting one player at the spot they are given.
Look at championship teams. How many have their foundation built via free agency and trades and how many are via the draft.
The draft is so important.
Richie – I think Wall gets it right now. He’s won games this season on both sides of the ball!
I think he lacks the maturity and professionalism that Derrick Rose had as a freshman but the talent and desire to win are there.
Who needs #1 picks when you can get James Moiso or Kenny Thomas… but that is ancient history.
Bad coaching and management is a factor… but this team has drafted #9 or lower every year since 1999. So the team has a dearth of talent. It is pretty simple.
Of the current top teams only the Lakers have managed to be good without having higher draft picks than the Sixers over the last 10 years.
Would someone say Ray Allen is an exceptional Shooter? Sure. But the series where he couldn’t buy a basket wasnt because he lost his shot somewhere in the locker room. He lost his confidence and his shot didn’t fall as usual. But his overall skill level is much better than most players passing through the NBA ever. So, yes I think its all about confidence. Take a young kid teach him how to play the game. He’ll be fine in the back yard playing hoops with dad. But put him a hostile environment against kids he don’t know you’ll see if he’s confident in what he learned shooting in his driveway or does he cower against other competition. Same holds for other players.
If you know that shot is going you can feel it going in as it leaves your hands. If your struggling and losing confidence it takes often times many repititions to get it back. That’s why I said IMO, 80/20.
Nobody comes to see Iggy/Brand now. They are the best players on this team and yet they can’t draw any fans to the games. So what’s their worth really? The glass is half empty just like the Wachovia Center.
You can have the all confidence team- I seem to remember Manute Bol had lots of confidence in his 3pt shot
I’ll take MJ, Shaq, Kobe, West and Wilt on their worst day.
RRose, I do agree with you about confidence being important. Its the difference between when Lou shoots 28% for a season from 3pt and then gets a green light and jumps up to 33%. But he is still Lou.
Things like confidence and coaching have a much bigger impact in college and other sports than they have in the NBA.
TK, but those guys you mention are the very best the elite players. Makes my point. Those guys make up 2% of the league. Then there are a few guys that are just very good players. The difference to me between a good and great player is ex. Kobe eventhough he’s in my 2% range, he knows you can’t stop him. Lebron knows its nothing you can do when he’s rolling. Its that boost of extra confidence that goes along with that unbelievable talent that makes them great. The Sixers haven’t had a guy like that since Barkley. A lot of players are talented but most of them don’t believe they can become great. Wade said it in his quotes after their win over the Sixers and someone posted here. Iggy nor Brand is on that level and they don’t inspire confidence in any player on that team.
RRose – Where do you think confidence comes from?
Also what is confidence really and how do you define it compared to say cockiness?
This is an important question for a very important reason.
Real, productive confidence is a progression.
It starts with some talent. Then…
This is the first phase and were many players stop. This is simply confidence in yourself.
This is the phase that separates elite from the just good players. It’s about work. It’s about refining and honing your talent and mastering your craft. This is where confidence is highly productive and not just faux confidence and talk. This is confidence in your ability.
This is the last phase and what separates Jordan, Magic and those guys from everyone else.
This is what I think confidence is. It’s a progression. And it’s built not just on your expectations but your ability and the work behind it all. And I don’t think the disparity is 80/20 confidence/skill. I think it’s more like 50/50. Whereas I think knowing how to play and raw skill is more 80/20.
Yes. They need one of those 2% type players. As of right now their best chance of landing one is moving up a few spots in the draft lottery.
Good post Dannie.
But its also interesting to see AI this year or MJ his last 2 season. Once they lost their athletic edge they could no longer get up, over or around the roadblocks.
I remember when I was cut from my college team. It was strange, in that I had rapidly become a much better player than I expected, and felt like I had simply had run out of time. It showed me how much more you can get out of yourself when you are really pushed to give your full effort.
I’m sure had I applied myself like that a few years earlier I would have become a much better player… but you still need a certain amount of talent and there is only so far you can push yourself.
This man is a moron! When does he think the Sixers will be up 30? The more quotes I hear from him the more he just comes off as a douche.
I liked his quote about wanting to be with the team in 6 months.
TK76 – The difference between Jordan and AI was Jordan’s layoffs from the game and Jordan’s knowledge for the game and size. Of course, he wasn’t going to be “Air Jordan,” but I still believe whole-heartedly he was so talented and just so damn smart that he could have been much, much more efficient and productive into his late 30′s if he had maintained his body to play basketball. His knees wouldn’t have deteriorated as badly.
I mean dude did drop some ridiculous numbers on the young bucks at age 39 and 40. He became more of a small forward as he got older and his rebounding was improved. He just knows how to play the game.
AI on the other hand hasn’t adapted his game enough to stay productive as he aged.
tk76 – On your post where you said “Cavs: Seriously tanked to get Lebron
Celtics: Epic tank before they made the KG trade
Spurs: tanked from 59 -> 20 wins to get Duncan.
Magic: History of winning the lottery 3 times in a 10 year span… has not seemed to destroy their franchise. Including a 21 win season before getting Dwight.
Denver: 17 win season before getting Melo.
Mavs: Won 20 and then 19 games to get Dirk.”
You are completely correct. My thing is IF you tank, you seriously have to turn over your roster. The only case in which thata didn’t happen on a grand scale, is San Antonio. Even in Cleveland guys from that Ricky Davis lead Cavs squad for the most part were outta there within a few year besides the Big Z. And I wouldn’t even say they tanked, they just sucked. That Denver team also completely sucked. Boston actually seemed to be a tank job. I think the Admiral-less Spurs tanked.
BTW on the EJ quote, he pretty much showed he doesn’t have the BBall IQ to be coaching ANYWHERE. Fucking Idiot. Does he realize they aren’t playing the Nets everygame of the rest of the year? Up by 30 on who? You just got your asses handed to you by the friggin Knicks after an epic 29 pt second half…How about scoring 30 in a half before getting up 30 EJ…What a Tool.
Crazy when i left the sixers was up at halftime i come back they lose the game. I know the best thing for them is to lose but man i guess keep up the good work sixers cant wait till the playoffs start and watch my team not in it.
Dannie curious who do u like in march madness ?????? I dont follow college basketball but im looking forward to it. Naturally my favorite team is going to be maryland cause i am from there but tell me do u know anything about there center monroe i believe his name is ???? heard some people on espn talking about him whats ur opinion of him ?????
My thing is IF you tank, you seriously have to turn over your roster.
Respectfully, who cares?
Marcus – I like Kansas, Kentucky and Cuse of the #1 to win it. If Cuse can get hot shooting the ball they will give every team trouble with that zone.
I think Kansas could look like this year’s version of UNC.
Not sold on Duke this year, think they benefited from a softer ACC and could potentially lose in the second round to Louisville.
I really am interested to see what top players carry their team further than expected…Turner, James Anderson, Favors etc.
Watch out for that richmond kid too. He can play.
Yeah everyone keeps saying that. I watched him in the Temple game. He was locked down. Nova has 4 guards to defend him so there should always be a fresh defender with him at all times.
I think the ACC being weak this year is a little overstated and has much to due with UNC being so bad. Maryland can absolutely make a run with with Vasquez.. I have gtech beating Ohio State because they have the talent of a top 10 team just an awful coach. Im seeing three ACC teams making the sweet 16.
Garvey, I agree they probably will end up completely turning over their roster before they are good. That could be in a year, or it could be in three. But ultimately they need to have a legit star in place before deciding which pieces are the right fit. It probably depends on whether that star is a big, a shooter or a slasher. Each would require a very different supporting cast to succeed.
Look at after the Sixers drafted AI. 2 years later everyone, from players to coaches had been turned over. Not saying that has to happen, but it could. The Sixers dealt Stackhouse since they did not need a slasher next AI. They probably would have to move Holiday if they get Wall or Iguodala if they get Turner. But we won’t know who needs to be moved for a little while. We need acquire a star and then build for them.
I used the word “softer” not weak. There is a significant difference.
Morty – I dont have a problem with turning over the roster, I am all for it. However our current management has shown that they tend to do it half-assed.
Tk76 – 100% Agreed.
It still strikes me as odd that most venom/venting is directed at Eddie Jordan rather than the founder/sculptor of the current squad, Ed Stefanski. If you’ve ever coached, you know your degree of competition failure or success depends largely on the quality – skill & character - of horses in the stable. Ultimately, one 76ers employee did the handpicking and populating. Yet members of the press (and many fans) wear kid gloves when commenting about him, choosing instead
to excoriate his head coaching choice. Their aim is off. Imbalanced shooting. Must be the result of a hometown tilt.
Agree. One Ed unmasks the another Ed’s monster.
The floor Ed’s imprint is shallower than suite Ed’s. Where’s the outrage and fan community call for the latter’s head? Let’s see Kate Fagan and kind spout off regularly about his inept performance.
BDL Article of tanking.Regardless of your opinion on tanking makes for a nice read
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Yes-Rodney-Carney-tanking-is-quite-possible;_ylt=Al1yp9guRSs40bgepyZGyRO8vLYF?urn=nba,228021