Comments on: Sixers vs. Magic Playoff Series: Game 4

By: Dannie

Dannie — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:19:10 +0000

… or (c) the larger majority of his bad passes (99 during the season / average 4.3 turnovers per game in this post-season) are of the jumping variety while the majority of his assists are of the fundamentally sound variety. Eliminate the jump passing turnovers and assist-to-turnover ratio goes up, just maybe?

I don’t dispute Dala is a willing and capable passer at all. It’s a very nice part of his game.

And I would absolutely tell D. Wade to cut down on the dribbling through traffic. Big fan of Wade, but he has a hole in his game. Dude is a turnover machine 3.4 per game in the regular season – 2nd worst and a ridiculous 5.3 per game in this post-season and 3.8 for his career. Giving the other team 4 additional possessions is a big weakness. And I am strong believer in Michael Jordan’s development philosophy of turning weaknesses into strengths over time with good training. Hopefully Wade goes on the same track as M.J. did where he was turning the ball over 3+ times per game until the 1991 season and he never was higher than 2.7 again in 9 seasons.

At the end of the day what I am saying is there is plenty of room to be smarter basketball players and no reason for us as fans, players ourselves or coaches to encourage/applaud/defend bad habits.

By: DD from Lovetron

DD from Lovetron — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:45:03 +0000

Dannie – I think we’re probably converging. The better athlete argument is meant to agree with you that for the “average” player, jumping to pass is a bad idea. There are a lot of things that NBA players do that are fundamentally unsound but work because they are exceptional athletes. It’s probably unsound for D-Wade to dribble into traffic, bounce off people, and throw up off-balance bank shots — but it works a lot of the time, so do you tell him not to do it? For Iguodala, the 4.4-1 assist-to-bad-pass ratio tells you either that (a) he doesn’t often jump to pass [your original contention] or (b) he makes it work much more often than not.

By: Dannie

Dannie — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:00:51 +0000

DD – His assist-to-bad-pass ratio is 4.4-1, certainly not “well” above 4. Regardless that is irrelevant to the point we are discussing – his jump passing. What really matters, and we don’t have hard data to settle the debate, is his assist-to-bad-pass ratio on the topic at hand – jump passes over the course of this season, career. I wouldn’t be surprised if that number is significantly lower than than 4-1, which to my point would suggest it’s not a high % aka winning play. But like I said we don’t have that level of granular data.

I agree, there are certainly times when a player is in the air and must pass (intent to shoot, then pass). In my opinion that is a somewhat different conversation. For the most part I am talking about jumping with the intent to pass. There’s simply little good reason to do it if you play the game right before you get to that point.

Also, the point about Iguodala being a 99% better athlete than anyone I coach or play against is irrelevant to the conversation as well because that isn’t the case in the context he is making these passes – the NBA. And unless your thought process changes when lesser talent/athletes are involved my opinion still remains I’d welcome playing or coaching against anyone that believes jumping and passing as regularly as Iguodala does, is a good idea.

By: DD from Lovetron

DD from Lovetron — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:16:09 +0000

Dannie - that’s certainly a spirited defense, but I can’t agree that results are less important than whether the play is “by the book.” Iguodala’s assist-to-bad-pass ratio is well over 4-to-1, which is higher than many point guards, so whatever he does works for him. He’s also a better athlete than 99% of the players you coach or play against. I really don’t have a problem with the last pass to SD, because he knew Howard was the man doubling and had to be looking for Sam. The execution of the pass might have been slightly off, but Sam was definitely the right person to pass to. On another play, Iguodala had beaten his man and jumped as if taking a floater, only he saw Howard doubling and altered his shot into a pass to Sam for the lay-in. It may have been fundamentally unsound, but it was highly effective. In any case, we can probably agree that Iguodala always had his eyes open for the open man, unlike Miller who was focused on getting his own shots. jjg – still waiting for your two paragraphs of indignation on Turkoglu’s “look at me” celebration after his winning shot. I can only imagine what the reaction would have been had Iguodala done that.

By: The Real Rob

The Real Rob — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:19:02 +0000

Folks–This is going to be quite a series! It has the makings of a series going 7. Who will win it remains the mystery?

The Sixers certainly are treading deep waters and are entering Jaws territory, but this team has been riding some crazy waves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvCI-gNK_y4

Warning: The word MUST will be used often.

The Andres MUST show up EARLY!! Give the Magic credit for taking them out of the game early. Miller showed up late in the 4th quarter, plus he only had 4 assists in the game. Iggy had 11 assists, but seems to be taking too many risky plays in this series, hence the many turnovers for him. Iguodala MUST attack Turkoglu every time he is on the court.
Alston offensively will give Miller fits and vice versa.

Also, the Sixers MUST quit trying to get Howard in foul trouble. He is immovable for most part and the team MUST encorporate more of the Hack-A-Howard down the stretch before the 2 minute mark of the 4th.
Howard does get away with a lot of steps, but the Sixers MUST play through the no calls. I would take my chances with him on the free throw line. Simply put, the Sixers MUST leave Howard as the only scoring option for the Magic. When he scores 30+, they lose because their ball movement STICKS which was why they were 29th in assists.

The Sixers MUST win those 3rd quarters. The Magic have outscored them 109-81 in that period (although Game 3 was weird in the 3rd qt)!

The WEIRD thing: The Sixers are hitting threes well in this series, which is a bonus, and are the best three point shooting team in the PLAYOFFS, even better than the teams that shot well in the regular season (Orlando, San Antonio, Boston). GO FIGURE!!

Royal Ivey MUST play more minutes and relieve Lou of some of his. Ivey’s steal was something!

Also, come Game 6, we MUST have our fans come and fill the stadium!!! Game 4’s attendance was a joke!!

GO SIXERS!!! DON’T GIVE UP!!!

By: Dannie

Dannie — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:56:05 +0000

DD - I really didn't have a problem with Iguodala's game for the most part. BUT...your defense of the jump pass to say the least is bad and faulty. This isn't "simple physics" class it's basketball. First off as a player you're limiting yourself with what you can do with the ball (only option is to get rid of it before you hit the floor) that isn't smart or winning basketball in any regard. Jump passes are more times than not the end result of:

Poor decision making leading up to it (dribbling into trap areas and double teams)
Lack of anticipation (knowing the double or help defender is coming) and
Lack of technical fundamentals to execute a winning play without the increased risk (jumping in the air). Simple put it's an unnecessary risk.

The tactical way the game is taught and the right play is to make the closer and simpler pass (without jumping) to a teammate who then makes the assisted pass with a clear "line of sight." The guy who makes the first pass gets the hockey assist. Just give it the cringe test. If you see the play developing and you cringe and then feel relief when the expected bad thing luckily doesn't happens it wasn't a smart play. When you see the ball being snapped around to the open man with little pressure, that is beautiful basketball to watch. Sadly we rarely see it now. Where your argument really goes faulty is in focusing on the result. Good basketball coaching focuses on decision-making and process because in the end consistently making the right decisions and smart plays leads to success. If a player makes the right play and the result doesn't work out (right read, good pass, missed shot) the feedback to the player is positive to reinforce the good decision. When a player makes the wrong decision or play (jumping in the air with two defenders on him, fading and heaves a tough pass to your worst receiving player [Sam and his bad hands]) the feedback is to teach the player not to do that because in the long-run it leads to unfavorable results. It's about helping players develop winning habits. About the play to Sam specifically. I disagree that he knew where he was going to pass the ball. He went up actually looked out top and didn't find anyone and then turned and went to Sam, and even then the ball was still almost tipped and dropped. Likely that play goes the wrong way which is why you don't encourage it by focusing on the end result. I will say this I would LOVE to coach against or play against anyone that thinks the argument you just made about the jump pass is sound.

By: jjg

jjg — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:49:35 +0000

Iguodala’s head was in an unwinning place last night, particularly in the 1st half. Howard-forced offensive passivity is a mode of Magic containment, effective jump-passes aside. (By the way, even if jump-passes are pre-planned or have nice intent, there’s a strong element of luck in completing them, given the variable of alert, mobile defenders and the split-second decision-making and skill release required; it’s
fundamentally unsound action.) It’s all well and good that he piled up some assists, but your big money man needs to be more assertive and spearhead the offense in a big spot, even if it involves a few embarrassing alterations or smack-backs. He’s had his moments in the Series, but he chumped out last night.

By: DD from Lovetron

DD from Lovetron — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:54:52 +0000

Since the Iguodala commentary is, as typical here, 90/10 negative, let me say a couple words in his defense. About the jump passing, sure coaches tell players that it’s not a good idea to jump in the air to pass, but that is only true if you don’t know what you’re going to do with the ball. Simple physics dictates that jumping will somtimes get you a line of sight that you don’t have when you’re on the ground. The last pass to Dalembert was an example of that — it got past the double team because he jumped. The results of this game speak for themselves. Number of Iguodala turnovers off bad passes: ONE (one more listed as a bad pass turnover came when he was pinned on the baseline and the pass went off someone’s knee). Number of dunks and lay-ups off Iguodala passes, many of them jump passes: FIVE. I’ll take that ratio any day. Further, note to Hobbes: two of Iguodala’s 3-point attempts were from beyond halfcourt at the ends of quarters, one was the must-take attempt at the end of the game. Of the other three, one of them he made when wide open (off a nice pass from Lou) and another was a wide open 3 off a nice pass from Thad, when they were down 4 with 2 minutes to play. So which of those would you rather that he not have attempted? The fact is, Iguodala forced very few shots in this game and took what the Magic gave him (which was mostly passing opportunities). If you want to look at somebody who forced a lot of shots, point the finger squarely at Miller.

By: Dannie

Dannie — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:56:54 +0000

The other smart thing about that last Orlando play is by going pick and roll with similar players you completely eliminate the potential for trap which would have push the play back and disrupted rhythm. I am seeing more and more of this now – wing-wing/point ball screens.

By: Dannie

Dannie — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:53:52 +0000

Tom – That was a smart play by Van Gundy. I think it has nothing to do with veteran getting calls and more to do with Thad is unproven as a defensive perimeter stopper regardless of height. His defense there was not good and the exact opposite of how Iguodala has been defending him all series.

He was too far off Turk and his weight was clearly on his heels which was why Turks baby jab right backed him up a step and half. To the untrained eye it look like he contested but in my opinion that’s not a real contest. He hand barely got to Turks chin, that’s a sign of being out of position.

“The bubble” is how I know to play defense. You need to be in it at almost all times. In that situation once Turk work the clock down to 5 the right defense would have been to quickly press up, take the shot away and make him drive into the help against the clock. That shot he took was just too much in rhythm and good defense is about making offensive players uncomfortable.