I went back and looked at the stats from last game. The Sixers only beat the Bucks by 5 although they
- Out-rebounded them by 4 and had 5 more offensive boards
- Shot 46% from the field vs. 43% for the Bucks
- The Sixers actually made 2 more three pointers (4-8) than the Bucks (2-13) – This really worries me for tonight’s game
- Had 10 more fast break points
- 16 more points in the paint
- 17 more second chance points
So what gives? Same ole problems and same ole keys to the game. Sixers only shot 63% from the foul line and had 5 less points from the line while only attempting 1 less than the Bucks. They had 16 turnovers and were tied on points off turnovers with the Bucks. Those two areas make the Sixers’ job significantly harder than it needs to be. They need to do a better job taking care of the ball and getting the job done at the line.
About the three point shooting – it’s less likely the Bucks will shoot 13.3% from the line. That could very well end up being the difference in the game. That means keeping Michael Redd in check.
The Sixers are coming off a moral victory (<– vomit) against the Spurs and a win against a depleted Houston team at home. The Sixers are playing well, right? This should be a win tonight, right? Then why the hell are the Bucks favored to win this game by 7 and a half points? Especially with Andrew Bogut’s status still up in the air with back spasms.
Theory: The Bucks play a very similar style as the Sixers. Skiles focuses on defense, rebounding, forcing turnovers and getting easy buckets on the break. And well, to be honest, the Bucks have played the Sixers’ style better this season (17-19) and recently their results have been much better. They have won 7 of their last 8 home games and are 10-5 at home on the season. They are also 6-4 in their last 10 games, including wins over the Spurs and Utah.
All the talk has been about the Sixers playing better basketball although they only have 1 win the last 8 games. Tonight we will definitely get a better idea and see if this team can start playing with some consistency. I am very anxious for this game because I want to see what direction this team goes.
Will they start stringing together some wins or will they continue to be one-hit wonders?
Sixers vs. Milwaukee Game Notes
If you watched Andre Miller’s post-game interview about this play, he said he had in his mind that he was taking a three while he was dribbling down court. Interesting.
This will be short becuase I am dead tired. I really thought the Sixers were going to blow this game. But they locked down defensively and nailed some timely – and unlikely - threes to seal their second straight victory.
Andre Miller is playing the way he did last season: 28 points on 13 shots, 9 boards and 6 dimes. He looks fresh, quick and really on his game right now. I really have no idea what the Sixers’ plans are for him. The way he is playing you would think he needs to be resigned or the team will take a drastic step backwards. On the other hand he is 32, turning 33 and play so well his value is at peak level going into the all-star break.
Royal Ivey has quietly worked himself into the regular rotation with his energy, defense and three point shooting. What? Three point shooting? Yup, he was 3-4 tonight and is 7-11 from three the last 6 games. This is exactly what the Sixers need. A guy that can make an open three and contribute in some other way that makes his time on the court productive.
This is a perfect example of not waiting for an opportunity as a reserve player but creating one for yourself. I am a firm believer that guys on the bench should NEVER complain about minutes because getting them is not all that hard. Simply pay attention, identify a singular and impactful weakness on the team and do everything in your power to try and fill that need. The Sixers need three point shooting and perimeter defense. Well Ivey was already known for his D but equally known for his lack of three point shooting ability. I have to imagine he is putting in extra time in the gym to improve his shot and build confidence in it, because when he gets in and the catch-and-shoot opportunity is there, he has not hesititated to take it. In the last 6 games his numbers speak for themselves.
Two Sixers’ weaknesses that were strengths tonight won this game. They were 8-15 from three which wasn’t a huge disparity from the Bucks (7-19), but they kept this area even which is all they really need to do – not get blown out behind the arc. The most three pointers made since December 19th against Washington and the third most all season.
The Bucks actually outscored the Sixers 87 – 78 from the field, but the Sixers were 32-39 from the line outscoring the Bucks by 14. That was the difference. That was the most free throws attempted and made all season. On top of that they finished the game with a lot of pressure on defense to prevent the Bucks from making one last back-breaking run to win it.
Next Game: Revenge against the Charlotte Bobcats, Friday at home.
That surprises me, I know the Bucks have been playing better as of late and the Sixers not so much, but 7 1/2 points. Kind of feels like a kick in the nuts, don’t it? 7 1/2 point underdog to the Bucks? I never would of guessed that in October, even though I did think that the Bucks would play better than people were giving them credit for in the beginning of the year.
Doesn’t it seem like the Sixers ALWAYS get lucky and face an opponent without one of their best players and still lose or just barely win, not just this season, but the last couple? Hopefully that is not the case tonight whoever plays.
Lou did a interview on DNL during shootaround and the shots behind him looked like they were falling, hopefully it carries over into the game.
I am keenly interested to find out if what we think we might possibly be seeing (a turning point that started with the final 3 quarters against the Spurs and continued with last night’s win) is real or imagined. If we have truly established a beachhead, then we should see continued solid play resulting in a win. A loss would get me thinking that what we saw was just a fleeting surge.
Blski, I would like to see a blowout if Bogut isn!t playing.
I wish Andre Miller was 5 years younger
Yes, Sam please show smarts and effort. Jefferson drives baseline and instead of waiting till he commits and swatting it he fouls him reaching in and than as Jefferson drives he doesn!t even challenge it, yes another Sammy rant, sorry.
Interesting TWIST on E.S.P.N. . M.Jackson and Van Gundy [Abbott and Costello ?] did college game and Dicky V. doing the pro game.
yeah it is pretty sweet hearing Vitale doing NBA.
Alright these guys need to come out like they did to start if they want to steal this must needed win away form home.
Ryan F- I would even take a 2 years younger Miller.
Salmi always mentions his pump fake as “best in the league” but I never hear him talk about his hesitation step on the fast break and that move is LEGIT! That hesitation where he raises his head and pulls his shoulders back while taking a big step forward that lets him lunge past the D. Know what I’m talking about?
Sure do, I am just torn on whether or not he should be kept because of his age, definitely not because of his play.
Yeah, we have a mix-matched team in terms of approaching/reached/passing their peak levels of play. I have no idea what will/should happen with Miller.
Something to consider:
Royal Ivey
Dec. 03 through Dec. 20 – 6 games, 0-7 from three
Dec. 26 through Tonight – 6 games, 7-11 from three
Strange..
“Are you kidding me?!”
Nothing beats the radio
There goes the pop-up threeeeeeeee
I never thought that would ever see Miller pull up off the dribble and knock down a three….not only did it finish the game, but it is a nice bonus for my fantasy squad.
Nice game by Royal. Great move by coach to leave him in and remove Lou who wasn’t having a good game. Andre was feeling it. Sixers seemed to be playing on fumes. Really nice win. Don’t understand this approach to Sammy. He seems to be impacting the game positively when in there but is not put back in. Different approach than ever with Sammy. I guess this is intended to motivate him to give consistant play. I like it but thought he was needed late 3rd-early 4th qtr’s. 2 wins in a row! Lookout! How bout those Celtics!
I guess Sheldon can put the biscuit in the basket!
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/018359.html?mi_rss=Kings%20Blog%20and%20Q&A
suede,
Good point about the Celtics. I live in Charlotte NC so all the Bobcat fans were talkin big about beating them, but it seems to be the common thing to do for the past week.
Good all around game I guess. Nothing really impressed me about what we did tonight, except for Miller’s three (that was crazy) and the way Ivey played. Thats called stepping up when you get the oppurtunity. Iggy got bailed out because if they ended up sending it to overtime, oh god I don’t even know what Dannie would have to say. haha just playin Dannie. It really seemed like Iggy was struggling, but when I look at the box score, his numbers aren’t that bad and still managed to drop 20.
The thing that scares me the most…OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING BY THE BUCKS!!!!! Ok, it’s simple guys. You box out the player who which you are gaurding. You then jump with two hands extended to secure the rebound. I realize we don’t have Brand, but seriously, how many second chance points can we allow before realizing that we have to box out.
Dannie, question; who came up with the restricted area and what was the main reason for it? Good win but not pretty. Guys, what do you think of the ” the more we chuck it up the more we will draw out the defense ” thought process of E.S. ?
Guest – I knew he was going to miss at least one of those free throws so I mentally prepared myself.
Suede – The restricted area or “no-charge zone/area,” used to be a two-by-six foot box where an offensive foul is not called if contact is made with a secondary defensive player who has established a defensive position.
I personally don’t ever remember seeing this painted on the court so I am assuming it was an invisible box refs had to be aware of when officiating the game.
In 1997, the NBA introduced an dotted arc of a 4-foot radius from the center of the basket where an offensive foul for charging could not be assessed.
This was to prevent defensive players from attempting to draw an offensive foul on their opponents by standing underneath the basket. And that was to promote perimeter players to drive to the basket more and probably increase scoring a bit because of more free throw attempts (not sure what the numbers say).
Good rule that will be adopted (with a slightly larger arc) in 2010 by FIBA/euroleague – less flopping foreign players hopefully. Also, FIBA is moving their three point line back (22 ft 1.7 in) and getting rid of that trapezoid lane and adopting the NBA paint area exactly. Wonder how all this will impact major internation competitions.
And the restricted area absolutely should be adopted in the college game where far to many charges are called by guys standing under the basket which is completely ridiculous and nonsensical logistically the way drives to the basket occur.
A winning streak??? And 1 game out of the 8 seed in the East??? As bad as we’ve played…..Can we miss the playoffs in the east? Iguodala seems to be playing better and if Brand contributes even a little they should be no worse than last year as a low seed playoff berth. There’s a little sixer optimism for ya….
saw the game. good game. messy game too. fair enough. i expected them to win. i expect them to win the bobcat game (charlotte will be high off of false confidence from their victory over the celtics – who apparently after stringing together a record winning streak cannot beat the Knicks to save their lives) well its nothing new (yawn) the sixers are a 2nd half team, have been saying that for a while now. anything you see now i can guarantee you have seen before. even thad has reverted back to his rookie form. i’m still waiting for that trade, thats where the real stuff should begin.
anyone see the denver-miami game?: 2nd quarter i think, clock running down, wade on the perimeter, teammate passes to wade, wade is double teamed, dribbles, spins and shoots a fadeaway, good 3ft off the 3pt line with two defenders in his face…..ball drops swooosh. that right there transcends skill, thats just being hot. like lebron against the pistons, wade (unanimous MVP or at worst scoring title) is just on fire this season. i think the miami brass will be smart enough not to waste it if the heat make the playoffs and will try to get a Sammy type player. problem is though i don’t think Chalmers will be coming back , more like Cook.
@ Dannie or Suede: WTF Is Yi a bust?
Dannie, thanks for the info; JayK, Looking at N.B.A.draft.net recently convinced me that Okl. City is not a trade destination for Sam. They can sit there and draft B.Griffin to go with Kristic and they are set up front.
jkay – Did you ever think he was going to be good in the first place? I know he was drafted 6th and that position comes with high expectations but I am almost ALWAYS skeptical of foreign players who are projected to be great players in the NBA because they rarely end up being that good. He is on the Nets now and I personally don’t think he is all that good. He is a 7-footer that tries to play like Dirk but can’t shoot nearly that well. He is soft inside and shoots a ridiculously low percentage for being that big. Not a defender and average rebounder.
I don’t know if I would call him a bust yet only two years in, or ever I personally never thought he would be very good so for me results are expected. Also I think him being drafted 6th had a lot more to do with that 2007 draft being pretty raw, unheralded not that deep in terms of guys that were expected to be really good right away. That was the year Thad was taken 12th.
the other side
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/bucks/37251504.html
Skile’s sideline intensity didn’t translate.
‘Pops’ Miller flattens Bucks with daring push-shot from deep; defender cozy just inside arc on a cold, winter night.
Thanks for the link, jjg. Always good to get the other side’s point of view.
Reading Skiles’ comments got me thinking. I’m not saying that the Bucks played great defense, but I don’t think we got the win based solely on what they did not do defensively. I’m thinking that what we were able to do was more responsible (at least 60-40) for the win. We did a lot of the same things last night, like attacking the basket, (39 free throws for example) as we did against the Rockets on Tuesday (35 free throws).
Everybody scouts. Everybody knows what we’re about. Everybody knows what they need to take away from us in order to beat us. When we win like we have the last two nights, is it because the opposition didn’t do what they needed to do or is it because we were able to do it in spite of them trying to take it away?
I know the answer to that varies from night to night. I also know that I am talking about only 2 games here. Nevertheless, it appears to me that something is being established and that we won these last two games rather than the opponent losing them. Consisitency and continued improvement will let me know for sure.
You’re quite welcome, bski.
Bucks’ defensive tenacity, Exhibit A: picture of Michael Redd, above, game’s final minute. Exhibit B: Sixers’ shoot .515 FG and .533 3 Pt.?! - doesn’t happen if Bucks show up defensively. Redd & Ridnaur, Swiss cheese.
I agree that there are signs of coalescence and Sixers should be given credit for mild improvement and exerting their will to win of late. Game vs. Larry & his pupils will be interesting.
It seems like the Bucks are starting to be a remedy for the Sixers the last couple of years, since the day Allen Iverson was drafted. The game was a bit deja vu with us pulling away in the 4th quarter. I’ll tell you what, Royal Ivey has really earned that spot in the rotation and could lead the other role players like Rush and Lou by example on how to earn more playing time, through the defensive end. The game changed when Ivey and Speights came in for Lou and Ratliff, who was a bit tired, late in the fourth. Donyell, in few minutes, did not score but did the little things necessary in a game– set a brilliant screen for Iggy to score, blocked a shot to force a jumpball for Miller who SURPRISINGLY won the tip, and made the rebound to set up a tic-tac-toe for the Sixers fastbreak. Those things get you minutes. Hopefully, he will get more playing time and start getting those looks from downtown he received earlier in the season. For Rush, he has to be more versatile in his game like he did in Indiana last season, along with some team defense in practice and in the game, that way he can get some time.
I really see some consistency in this team and I hope it continues. Give Tony DiLeo credit, he really utilizes his players to their full potential– see Iggy, Thad, and Lou. Let’s not forget about how he utilized Brand to his best ability,even though it was against the Wizards, but still he looked like the Brand in LA. Now, Sammy is the ultimate riddle and he has REALLY struggled since Brand was out! Guys are starting to lead by example: Lou is following Andre Miller, Speights and Lou are developing a bond and a great pick & roll off the bench, and briefly maybe Dalembert in some spurts is inspired by Ratliff (but needs to be consistent). Hopefully, Brand and Miller will regain the pick & roll they performed in LA 2002-03. And I hope Ratliff continues getting quality minutes once Brand returns.
Anyway, nice win over a pretty hot team the last couple of games. The Bucks were playing better since we last played them three weeks ago.
GO SIXERS AND NOW BLOW OUT THE BOBCATS!! We have a score to settle in Atlanta, as well as us watching the Eagles-Giants game!!
“They made shots, we didn’t!”
Larry Brown (usual postgame comment in a Sixers loss)
Hopefully, he will say that as a Bobcats coach!
jjg: the article says nothing new. basically everthing looks good when you win and sucks when you don’t. but you are right bout one thing though: Redd and Ridnour are HORRIBLE defenders!!
the similarities between both teams record-wise scares me. i dont want the sixers to end up in Bucks-like mediocrity. Milwaukee with all talent and ‘Bogut’ healthy are just a mediocre team managing in the East to stay afloat. really says something bout getting the right pieces that fit, thats why i can see reason in trading thad or iggy.
Fellas sorry that I wasn’t around yesterday to respond to the conversation of untouchables that I started. Dannie, the thing is in my eyes I do see Thad as a hall of fame type player. I truly do. In my 28 years of watching sixers basketball i have never seen anyone run the court as hard as him. Once this kid is old enough to grow a mustache your going to see him just destroy people. When we get a center that can throw good outlet passes your going to be seeing a whole lot more of full court passes to thad resulting in good times dunks. The good news is that Speights, Theo, and Brand are good outlet passers unlike Sammy just sucks at everything involving basketball.
Speights, this kid has the potential to easily be a 20+ pt scorer in this league. You see that he is already a pick and roll/pop terror. Imagine when they start posting him up?
SFW, agreed about Dileo being good for the youngsters because he had a hand in drafting them. I also agree that we need to get someone else to fill up Willie G’s minutes asap.
Ryan, as great as Iggy is playing right now I would not consider him untouchable just on the basis that were desperate for a real sg and we already have Thad as a sf.
As far as the Miller problem goes, as good as he is this might be the right time to deal him. Were a team of the future, not right now. If we can get a good young pg in return for him I would do it. I would love if we traded him to portland getting somehow getting Bayless. Oh where have you gone Peter Koppenen?
jkay I disagree with you vehemently (like a feeling ripped-off Iguodala in full flower on referees). Skiles, Jefferson & Ridnour quotes were nowhere to be found in Philly press; they were new, gol’ dang it! If you feel like you wasted your time reading, so be it; ’tweren’t maah intenshun.
Your distillation of winning and losing viewpoints strikes me as oversimplification.
On the sunny side, thanks for confirming my rightness in 1 respect.
Any port in a storm.
Basketballwise, Sixers are about equal to Bucks; athletically, as in comparison to most teams in the NBA , they’re superior – but that only gets you oohs and ahhs, not necessarily Ws. To your last point, I’m OK with moving Thad or Iggy or any of the others. It’s always time to get better.
JJG Im not convinced that Thad will end up being that much better than Iguodala. Thats just my opinion though. I haven’t seen anything spectactular about either of them though. Neither of them are untouchable.
Dannie The restricted area also makes it a lot easier on the ref. I was watching the Davidson and Duke game last night, and the refs called like 15 charges. It was ridiculous. With the restricted area in the NBA, it’s either a charge or a block. Theres no in between. If I could change two things in college basketball, it would be to add a restricted area, and shorten up the shot clock.
Greek – Sadly your strongest point with regard to Thad being a hall of famer was he can run, and previous posts said he had the “potential” of an unstoppable hook and post game.
And you must not have watched or have already forgotten the round mound play very much but I’d argue his larde ass, pulling down a mean rebound, dribbling through multiple defenders like a 6-6, 300 pound point guard and climbing giants (compared to his stature) and finishing consistently is much more productive and exciting to watch than a meek younger by the name of Thaddeus. Personally affinity and preference for past greats should already be noted on the blog by now. Game and players were better back then is my story and I am sticking to it.
Back on point, he can run as strong point for his potential greatness is exactly why I don’t see hall of game or greatness at all. Typically great players are great at a basketball related skill right away. At least that is my observation. Great players are gamers, they are ballers. They have fully developed basketball games. Running and jumping completely sports specific whereas putting a round orange ball through a round orange hole is.
Running and jumping, nothing special there and certainly not necessary criteria for greatness. I can go find a deer to run the court like a champ and race horse to run “hard.” Put the ball in their hooves and now they have a problem. To a lesser degree put a ball in Thad’s hand and tell him to run with equal speed and grace, then we have a bit of a problem.
Putting the ball in a round orange hole, prevent the other guy from putting the ball in a round orange hole,prevent the other guy from getting into comfortable spots on the floor offensively, not allowing the other guy to dictated where you go offensively, rebounding in your area, in other areas and in traffic, leading by example and motivating by whatever means necessary to get wins are only a few criteria for greatness. And guess what, you need to be great at them, not just satisfactory or even just good.
I said it on the last post I will say it again, people use the word “great” too much and I personally think to toss the word around to the next good runner, jumper and guy who can dunk is a disservice to those who have already proven their greatness.
But again that is just me. Your opinion of Thad, noted and respected – not shared.
Greek, the answer is Italy.
http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=ITA&PlayerID=69295
Good detective work SFW, I was beginning to worry about Mr. Koppenen!
Dannie, I have all the confidence in the world that by season 4 Thad will be a superior ball handler to what he is now. You see how much he has improved his ball handling from year one to year 2. It’s funny that you mention Sir Charles because I think that Thad is the best pick{non #1} that we have made since Barkely.
I agree with you about falling in love with athletes, I mean you see what happened with Carney’s career. With Thad, I see the skills that will one day get us over the hump. Mark this down Dannie, Thadues Young is a future Dream teamer. Probably in 2016, when were all old men and Thad will be just 27!
This was in Hollinger’s chat today:
Paul (Trenton, NJ): With the recent play of Ratliff/Speights and Dalembert’s dwindling minutes, do you think Philly is trying to trade him for shooting help?
John Hollinger: Philly is trying to trade him for darn near anything, but his contract prevents it. I remain at a loss why Speights isn’t playing more — he was a major reason they pulled out that game in Brewtown last night.
I figure that the man has a bit of an inside look, that would suck if we get stuck with a 27 yr old playing 20 minutes making more than 11 mill per. I figured that some team would take him even with that contract.
Where is that post at Dannie? I’m anxious, just kidding…but seriously.
Greek – I know you very high on Thad, and I’ll be right there with you in defending reasons we should keep him, but…
I think your statement should be as follows:
“as average as Thad is playing right now I would not consider him untouchable just on the basis that were desperate for a real sg and we already have Iggy as a sf.”
Honestly, I think Thad has a skill set, that if developed properly, could make him a solid player one day. I’m not gonna say GREAT Dannie (just busting your balls), but after the first few game this year, he has shown this team nothing but inconsistency.
Greek - Thad playing on the USA Men’s National Basketball Team (there is ONLY ONE “Dream Team”) has very little significance with me. Tayshaun Prince and Michael Redd were just on the Olympic team. Among other decent – good, but certainly not great players to play for the US
I think you get my point.
Guys, how is this for improvement ? Since Deleo has taken over the Sixers are scoring 5.2 more pts. per game and their f.g. percentage has gone up from 43.4 to 48.9 , very big jumps offensively, now if the defense keeps improving.
Suede - I will end up doing a comparison post once the Sixers have played 23 games (# of games Cheeks coached).
But worth noting since I think there is a bit too much flowery talk about this team right now, they are giving up 4.8 more points per game as well since DiLeo took over. Although I the number also suggest that could have more to do with Brand being out than the coaching change.
Good article, check it out if you haven’t already.
Dannie, the Daily News only talked offense. Do you think E.S. floated Sammy!s name to challenge him ?
Suede - No, I think he really is shopping him and possibly other players. Sam’s contract sucks in the context of his role and one-side of the court production, even more so with that 15% trade kicker. But I don’t think he wants to give him away by any means like Hollinger suggested in that chat.
Sadly I it may come to that if he is extremely motivated to move him (not sure he is or isn’t) and he doesn’t get any satisfactory offers in terms of players in return.
The more I think about it the more I think moving Sam for expiring contracts might be the best deal he can find and I am still not sure what time has the contracts and the need for a defensive-rebounding center for the next two seasons. If Sam’s contract was 5 or 6 million I think he would be rather easy to move and get value in return. Billy King still f’ing the Sixers with his terrible deals.
Dannie – you have to tell me how to make it pretty, I feel bad every time you do the leg work I would do if I knew how. I am new at this blogging thing, still feeling it out.
Thanks for the link, Ryan F.
Dannie….I would think that a couple things could explain why we are giving up 4.8 points more per game under DiLeo. For one, neither Young nor Speights plays defense and rebounds as well as Brand. For another, I’m guessing that our number of possessions per game has increased a bit, and as a result so has that of our opponents, since Brand went out. Where would I go to find that out, btw?
Ryan F – Don’t feel back it’s not work at all really. But here is how you do it if you want.
Give it a try, if you mess up, don’t worry about it I can always go in and fix it. Also test out all the other one click icons in that grey bar above. You can…
Hope that helps – everyone.
Thank you sir, I have been trying that HTML bar over and over again feeling like an ass.
BSKI – To my current knowledge I don’t believe there is anyone that publishes game by game possessions per team anywhere, but I will look around because I’d be interested in that.
Here is the formula for calculating possessions though. As you can see it’s a pretty long formula but probably wouldn’t be too hard to create a spreadsheet with fields for all the necessary stats need to complete the formula and do it regularly. Maybe I will add that to my Current Sixers Team stats spreadsheet.
In fact this is a good time to ask people what team stats would they want to know/have tracked. If it isn’t too crazy or impossible to track I could add it to the short list I am already tracking. Keep in mind it shouldn’t be simple stuff you can easily get on ESPN or basketball reference. Here is what I have tracked for every game this season already…
I have all the opponents, game result, home or away. I also have the numbers broken out as with Cheeks, With DiLeo, with Brand, without Brand, and the overall average.
Pete and I have serious problems – we know.
Damn that is pretty intense. You guys can keep those problems, makes everything easier and more interesting for us.