Sixers will be getting some pre-thanksgiving hoops in tonight against the Orlando Magic in a game I think they NEED to win. Of the good teams the Sixers will face over the next 6 games the Magic are probably the least scary (you can probably make the argument for Detroit as well). It’s time for the Sixers to win a game at home against a good team. It’s time for this team to put together a complete game against a good team. It’s time for this team to start figuring it out on offense. It’s time for this team to give the fans a reason to come out and support these very expensive players.
I feel like people keep saying “give them time, give them time,” and what ends up happening is the season is over before you even notice because we have been “giving them time.” I’ve read it’s not about the wins, it’s about showing improvement. I can entertain that thought, but what real improvement have they shown through the first 14 games with a rather soft schedule to boot? They still can’t shoot. Still don’t execute on offense. Still don’t put teams away and surrender sizeable leads. Still lose to perceived weaker opponents with less overall talent.
Winning ball games matters because it’s a direct reflection of real improvement. And frankly it’s exactly what Ed Stefanski is paying over $187,000,000 to three players to do – win games.
Ok, about the actual game tonight. I will be there in section 106, row 16, seats 3 and 4, if anyone will be on hand.
JJG said in the comments of the previous post:
If Sixers get Howard in foul trouble, thereby limiting his unfettered court time, they’ve got a chance
The sad part, that is exactly what happened in the first game against Orlando this season, and the Sixers still lost by 10. Howard played just shy of 29 minutes and was only 6-11 from the field. He finished the game with 14 points, 8 boards, 3 blocks and 2-8 from the line. That is pretty disappointing that the Sixers were unable to beat Orlando when Dwight Howard was not at Superman form.
The bulk of the scoring came from the SF pair of Lewis and Turkoglu (who actually had a poor shooting game at 15-40) with Jameer Nelson contributing 16 points and 9 dimes. Elton Brand had a tough time defending Lewis and Turkoglu on the perimeter, and I really don’t see that changing tonight. We do get a break with Jameer Nelson out of the line up with a strained right hip flexor. Meaning Anthony Johnson is the starter and we should get a good look at Orlando’s rookie Courtney Lee.
The problem was Brand’s inability to take advantage of his size advantage inside against either of those guys mainly because he was double-teamed as soon as the entry pass was in flight. The Sixers need to be better prepared for this tonight or we could see another 8 field goal attempts for Brand and 24 shots from Andre Miller night. I don’t think we win a lot of games with that allocation of shots, do you?
Cheeks actually played 12 guys against Orlando the first match up. If Lou is still shooting poorly we have to get Kareem Rush and Donyell Marshall in the game for perimeter shooting – at least the threat of it. Orlando is going to do everything possible to force the Sixers to beat them from the perimeter. That certainly doesn’t mean they should accommodate them by jacking up tons of threes, but the Sixers will need to make some shots to open up driving lanes.
All I can say is my optimism is running on fumes and could really use a jumpstart with this team.
We can’t depend on Mo making the right moves. Sadly I am starting to think that he might possible be the worst coach in the league besides Ed Tapscot.
Yea its been enough time the team does need a real win against a good team their schedule has been weak they did not take advantage. The losses to the timberwolves and the bobcats stand out as the worst
I wanna see Brand be a beast tonight if he can’t because of the double teams I wanna see him hit the boards hard get the rebounds go back up strong get and and 1 or the other teams front line in foul trouble.
Ahh if the this team were only like my 2k9 team trade Iggy for Brandon Roy and all our problems are solved.
Also quick question to the board is there anything wrong with wearing my C-Webb Michigan Jersey. I liked Webber in college obviously his stint here was a joke but my friend gives me issues about that jersey I don’t see anything wrong with it. What do you guys think?
The Greek: Hey now, let’s not point to Tapscot as the worst head coach in the league just yet, with that stunning 1-0 record he has! (kidding, obviously). But let’s not forget he has about 15 years more head coaching experience than Reggie Theus, Vinny Del Negro, and Michael Curry…plus the Wizards will probably go on the “obligatory win streak under new coach” run that always seems to happen.
To win tonight: defense, defense, defense. Specifically, rotations out to the perimeter. If we can contain Rashard/Hedo to a minimum of 3 point shooting…and if Brand/D-Bear can help out quickly once their perimeter guys drive psat the three point line, we’ll be in a position to win.
Elton Brand: Dwight Howard’s intimidation be damned. Use your footwork and quickness against him, and Mo, have Sammy and Iguodala in position to receive easy dump passes down low when Brand is doubled, and Thad, Lou or Rush out on the wing. Also, Elton, for god’s sake, anytime Hedo or Lewis is on you is a huge mismatch. Take them down to the low block and @!#$ing punish them! You are a PF with nice footwork and you know how to use your body. You just signed a huge contract. Earn it and play to your ability! And don’t get so jostled when the double teams come like last game. You are Coach K graduate…show the poise and patience you learned there, and showed throughout Chicago and LA.
Orlando Magic: I’ll be honest. This team scares the crap out of me. I think all this talk about Cleveland being the other contender in the East is BS. To me they are playing above their talent right now. I think Orlando is a legit 52-54 win team. The whole “everyone back from last year’s team with increased chemistry” thing is always hugely important…plus Battie gives them a huge boost, and Pietrus has exceeded expectations as a FA signing to give them athleticism, defense, and slashing at the SG position. Turkoglu has become an incredible versatile player…and Rashard Lewis has only played up to about 70% of his talent level so far, which is scary.
Point being…this is a VERY GOOD team…a win against this Orlando team that has been playing great lately would be a very encouraging sign.
2on5:
As long as you don’t where a 76ers C-Webb jersey, I think you’re cool. But you’ve also got to understand that all of G-State and Washington DC hates Chris Webber with a passion, a crap load of early 90′s college hoopheads from UK, Duke, Maryland and OSU can’t stand that Michigan team, and given the fact that C-Webb never lived up to his talent because of injuries or attitude problems…doesn’t exactly make him a beloved NBA figure.
So where the jersey at your own risk…you’ll get quizzical looks, taunts, “overrated” chants, people handing you money in sealed envelopes like the Michigan AD did to him, people walking around like a one legged gimp making fun of his injury, and some general, “Chris Webber? Really? You realize this is 2008, right?” chatter. But if you can stand all that, go for it!
p.s: It sounds like you don’t appreciate the full extent of how badly C-Webb quit on our last AI Sixers team that most Philly fans do. Do some Google-ing on some of the things that have come out he said to Coach O’Brien back in ’05, and Cheeks in ’06. He’s was a whiney, excuse making bitch during his time here.
And sadly, this is coming from a guy that has always rooted for C-Webb throughout his career to do well.
OK, I’m thinking out loud here. What do we think the situation is with Elton Brand? Several of you have been looking for Brand to get down on the block and get to work. I must admit that I expected him to be our man in the low post. However, I never saw much of him when he was with the Clips, so maybe I didn’t really know what he was, or is for that matter.
It seems to me that, over the course of the first few games, Brand did get the ball on the block pretty regularly. He struggled with double teams and with getting his shot off. The general consensus was that the players didn’t know each other yet, our floor spacing was poor, and everybody just stood around and watched when Elton had the ball. At this point, most of us did not attribute a large part of the blame for our offensive ineptitude to Brand.
Over the next few games Brand starting stepping out to the elbow, getting the ball in space, facing up, and mixing in the 15 footer. I was OK with this. It seemed to open things up a bit. Brand can consistently make this shot and he seemed to be more comfortable in the offense.
Over the last few games it seems like Brand is shooting the 15 footer almost exclusively. This I do not like. I don’t know that, considering the personnel we currently have, we can be a very successful team if Brand lives at the elbow.
All of that was to get to this. Is Elton Brand the low post guy we thought he was or is he more of a jump shooter? If he is a low post guy, why is he struggling with it so much? I watch the Sixers on NBA League Pass so I hear the other team’s announcers almost every game. They all keep saying the same things about Brand. He doesn’t have the same lift as he did before the injury, and such. Did he have more lift before? I don’t know. If he did, is it gone forever? Will he continue to struggle in the low post? I mean, even though he is predominantly taking jump shots, you can still see him having difficulty down low when he gets an offensive rebound. He just doesn’t seem to be able to power up and through guys. Is this just the result of some lingering effects from his achilles injury that will improve over time, or is this really who he is in the low post?
All of this has me wondering. Did Cheeks actually design an offense to utilize Brand on the block only to find out that he isn’t up to the task? If so, maybe that’s where our offensive struggles actually began. Then, in an effort to incorporate Brand in some way, was Cheeks forced to come up with a plan B, which gets Brand out in space and allows him to face up and take the 15 footer? Again, if he is comfortable taking that shot, I’m OK with him mixing it in. It can be a valuable weapon in his arsenal while, at the same time, it can also open things up for others underneath.
I’m not really trying to affix blame so much as I am trying to figure out where the problems lie and how we can go about correcting them. I mean, many feel that Cheeks isn’t the right coach. I realize that it is up to every coach to do the best with and get the most out of what he’s got but, at the same time, maybe Brand isn’t giving us what we really need on the offensive end. Maybe he is and we need to face the fact that we need another top tier player (read SG) to really make things work for us on offense.
What say you?
(P.S. Dave T., you have really been going to work on here the last couple days. No way I can keep up with that.)
If Elton doesn!t post up early tonight against a team playing 2 small forwards I will be very disappointed. And if they put Howard on him I go to him even more. This is a matchup we got Elton for, if he isn!t a factor early then matchup Thad and Iggy on their 2 forwards to chase on the defensive end. But when we don!t post up 2 minny guards against Charlotte I am not confident we will use this mismatch either.
So much for coming out with a lot of energy on the heels of that loss to the Bobcats.
Blski, is it me or is Lewis 3″ bigger than Elton. Constantly leaving the shooters open; ugly offense and Thad gets taken out since he was the only one doing well. H.Brown is disecting our team well on E.S.P.N., maybe he should coach them!!!
Hubie Brown comment in 1st quarter: “Now, we all know Lou Williams is a kid that’s got a ton of talent. Came out of high school, he can really score the basketball. But of the three shots he’s taken tonight, their degree of difficulty has been *thick New York accent* AWF THA CHAWRT!”
Well said Hubie. I should add, this was followed by an end of the quarter iso play, which involved not lots of passing, or pick setting, or play making, but…oh, right, Lou dribbling the shot clock down and jacking up a contested jumper. That missed.
Bski: Loved your post about Brand…agree with a lot of what you said there. Especially about how that high post jumpshot should be “a” option, not “the” option.
As I type this, Iguodala, with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, just shot a three pointer from the top of the key, with not one pass having been made, that was completely contested by the defender. Shockingly, it missed.
Lou Williams just took the ball to the racktwo plays in a row…and one led to an assist to Green, one led to an and-1 play. Hey Lou…MAYBE WE WANT TO BE DRIVING TO THE HOLE MORE OFTEN AND NOT SETTLE FOR JUMPSHOTS, EH?!
p.s. Bski:
You’re right that Brand has gotten the touches on the block. What I’m referring to, however, is his aggression in making low post moves. People are right in saying he’s not a sole, premier low block option, and that often the money part of his game can come through the high post.
But I’ve (sadly on NBA L-Pass) seen too many Clippers games where Brand has proven again and again he compensates for his lack of height with quickness, solid footwork, reading when his defender is offbalance, and strong, QUICK moves with his body to find a clear angle for a shot. I have seen none of this so far with him in a Sixers uniform, and this shocks me.
I would assume some of it is lack of timing coming off his injury…some of it is his teammates being completely idiotic with how they move without the ball, as often on the Clips Brand’s moves would come after scanning where his teammates were on the court…some of it is him rushing too much when he receives the ball, of his own mental pressure, or pressure of double teams…some of it is him flat out missing layups he’d normally make…and some of it is him having a “eh, not now” attitude, vs. one of “@!#$ you defender, I’m going to out-footwork you and flush this in your face with a pretty off the glass shot.
This “I own you” attitude is COMPLETELY lacking this year. And that is inexcusable given that Carlos Boozer, Ryan Gomes, Craig Smith, and Leon Powe, all 6’7-6’8, have been showing a better and more aggressive low post game then Brand so far. Very frustrating.
Deepsixer: I’m totally with you, Hubie is really on tonight, and doing an excellent job of breaking down our team. I love that guy. If he were 158 years old (I think I’m only a few off there) he’d still out coach 3/4′s of the current NBA coaches in the league today.
E.S., if you are seeing what we are seeing please make an assistant coaching change and bring in E.Jordan and his Princeton offense. By years end you at least will know it is the players that must be changed and then you can do what you have to do to the roster.
Suede & Dave……Hubie Brown can see it and Doug Collins can see it, but we still have the same guys doing the same things and getting the same results (it’s not working very well). What gives?
Dave T., Elton showed some of that “fire” you were talking about. Bilski, can these players be that stupid after playing all these years or do they need another voice to tell them what to do.
Real surprise tonight = Theo Ratliff. Dannie, you had mentioned the lack of proper pick setting a few weeks ago…Ratliff set a clinic tonight of how big men should be setting picks for guards and then rolling to the basket, or away from the ball. He also played EXCELLENT individual defense against Dwight Howard, and passed out of the post effectively. I was very impressed with his minutes.
Speights: Great energy, great defense (shame on me for knocking him the other day lol he looked great in that department), nice finishes near the basket. He’s playing with more confidence then most of our starting unit.
Big weakness: I thought before the game, our defensive rotations out to the wing to guard Orlando’s three point shooting was most important, as well as to give help when they drive…this game we have shown literally no ability to do this. Three plays stand out as examples that I can remember:
1. Hedo Turkoglu on the wing, mismatch where A-Miller is guarding him. Both Dalembert and Iguodala’s men were at the top of the key, and on weakside. Instead of positioning themselves near the middle of the lane, sagging between their man and the ball to be nearby Miller on the mismatch, they stayed to their men. Thus, when Turkoglu of course used his size to burn A-Miller, Dalembert was 5 seconds late in helping.
2. Anthony Johnson swung the ball to a wide open Rashard Lewis. 1 second…2 seconds…Thad Young did not rotate over. There was literally that long of a gap in reaction time. It took Thad that long to even realize he needed to run over to help.
3. Orlando ran the ball in transition…our players jogged back. We OUTNUMBERED them when they ran the break…yet the Magic swung the ball to the top of the key, then weakside…WIDE open three point look…again, our players showed literally no reaction, and did not seem to realize until the shot was already up that someone needed to rotate over to help out.
This is horrible execution, and this is exactly the kind of thing I blame on Mo Cheeks. He has to hold people accountable for these kinds of mistakes. I would verbally thrash, or just sit a guy for missing blatent defensive rotations like that. If people have not been taught these fundamentals in high school, or college, or the NBA, it is up to Mo to shove these rotations down their throats and practice it until it comes naturally, and to enforce the fact these rotations have to take place by playing guys that are making the help rotations.
Very frustrating.
Ratliff played well tonight but I wish Cheeks had brought in Speights when Dalembert fouled out. The Sixers should have won this game but before much longer the Sixers win be winning games like this. I still like the possibilities, but I question some of the rotations we’re seeing from Coach Mo.
Dave T., accountability seems to be lacking [see L.Will.]. I would sure like to see more Brand and Spieghts together out there, he just seems to find openings in the defense. Theo played well, good point on the screening. All a team has to do is make the second pass against us. I thought with Elton and Sammy we could play most bigs straight up and guard the shooters; if that is not the case than I have to agree with the Greek who said this week we go with a Spieghts/J.Smith platoon next year and raise the I.Q. ten fold down the offensive end by subtracting Sammy.
OK, I missed almost the entire second half. I had to pick my son up at the movies. When I left, we were down 8 a couple minutes into the 3rd. When I came back, Turkoglu had just hit both free throws to put Orlando up 1 near the end. What happened in between? Was it a slow and steady climb or a quick burst that evened the game? Was having the game come down to the last couple possessions the best we could have asked for or did we have a chance to put the game away sooner? Just curious.
Blski, a great, I!m being sarcastic, turnover by Iggy late in the game trying to dribble between his legs around 1/2 court with no break oppurtunity at all. H.Brown made a good point on Iggy never using the glass on his drives to the hoop, always going for a fingerroll or dunk.
Suede…Since you’ve mentioned Sammy and his IQ, I’d like to bring something up.
A couple weeks ago I watched the Raptors play the Celtics. Garnett took Bosh out of the offense early. Then Bosh started moving out to 15 feet away from the basket on most of Toronto’s possessions. He even went so far as to go out of bounds 3 or 4 feet below the baseline. He did this to take Garnett with him and clear the lane so Jermaine O’Neal could go one on one against Perkins, Powe, Davis, and whoever else. It worked. O’Neal had a big game for the Raptors, even though they lost.
I thought this was a fantastic move by Bosh. Instead of forcing things against a guy who mostly had him bottled up, he recognized that O’Neal had the better matchup, regardless of who was defending him.
Early in this game, Dalembert continued attempting to post Howard, even though Howard almost made him swallow his first shot attempt. I couldn’t help thinking that if the Raptors could use Bosh to pull a premier defender away from the paint, why can’t we do the same thing? Dalembert should have been pulling Howard out of the paint, since Brand against Lewis was clearly the better matchup for us.
I realize that Dalembert is no Bosh (I have a gift for understatement). Nonetheless, Howard would be forced to make a decision. He couldn’t just hang out in no man’s land (defensive 3-second violation). He would have to choose between staying with Dalembert or going to double Brand. In either case something would open up for us. If Howard stayed with Dalembert, Brand has a one on one matchup or if a wing player came to double Brand, then one of our wing players would have an open lane to the basket.
Specifically because Dalembert is no Bosh, something like this should be a no-brainer. We are not sacrificing major offensive numbers if we decide to use Dalembert this way against any major force big men. What do you think?
Dave T…..Great points. Surprising how well Ratliff played Howard. It really makes Sammy look bad to have a guy who has barely stepped on the floor this year handle a guy that’s abusing you, oh and screen and pass better too.
I really get tired of seeing guys like Tony Battie and Craig Smith have career games against us.
Did you happen to see the Raptors-Celtics game I’m talking about? What do you think about us copying that with Sammy. I think he’d help the offense a lot more that way.
Well, Young learned a “2nd year” mistake in helping too much when guarding Lewis. In the words of Salmi, he has to have “instant amnesia” and recover soon enough as he will be guarding Paul Pierce on Friday, a matchup I am looking forward to. The Boston Celtics will not be an easy task, but I am looking forward to this matchup between these two teams for some reason. Hopefully, with a couple of things tightened up, we can certainly match up with these “elite” teams. HOWEVER, Iggy cannot commit silly turnovers down the stretch and Dalembert cannot be a playmaker down the stretch.
Today, I saw the REAL Elton Brand working hard for everything, points, rebounds, blocked shots, defense. It’s a shame we wasted that great effort! I don’t know about you guys, but there really is something special about this team and with this being an 82 game season, they are bound to come alive soon enough.
Anyway, I want to wish you guys a Happy Thanksgiving. I probably will be busy preparing the feast, but will probably keep in touch some time during the day as a great reliever. I now have a name for the Turkey I will be eating on Thanksgiving Day, it is Hedo Turkoglu!
I want to wish everyone in the Sixers franchise, a “Happy Thanksgiving”. Sixers, don’t overeat at Boston Market, but a taste of victory against the Celtics would be even better!! Let’s stuff the Celtics, KG needs to eat something!!
Bski: That would work with Brand, not D-Bear. Pretty much every team’s scouting report for Dalembert likely reads: “Cannot hit shot outside three feet of basket…sag off Sammy if he strays 10-15 feet from the basket, and get in position to help the on ball defender.” Dalembert is a total liability for that…because of his complete ineptness on offense, there’s just no reason for the defense to follow him anywhere.
I understand what you mean about the defender not being able to hang out in the lane for a 3 second violation…but they would still leave Sammy to be a more active be a defensive threat with cutting off passing lanes, to use as a quicker double for someone else, to be in position to rotate for a penetrator, etc.
The other problem with Sammy is that, as Hubie Brown mentioned, he has zero ability to pass the ball from the high post, nor to shoot. It’s one thing to purposefully move a guy like Bosh, Brand, Garnett, Boozer, etc out to the 15 feet area to clear up the lane for a better matchup with your other big…but that only works because those guys can all: a. hit a jump shot b. read the defense effectively c. effectively pass and run an offense through the high post. Clearly, Sammy D cannot do those things.
Just want to also note that while Sammy D frustrates me, I’m not a Sammy hater by any means. I don’t mean the above as an anti-Sammy post, as I’ve always valued his rebounding, shot blocking, and sometimes good defense…but having him float out to the high post area, or the baseline wing, just wouldn’t work well often.
…as opposed to Ratliff, who made excellent contributions from the high post, forced defenders to guard him because he can hit a 10 foot shot, and fascilitated frontcourt off ball movement when the ball was passed to him around the free throw line. He had an excellent pass to Brand down on the block…unfortunately it missed because Orlando quickly rotated and then doubled.
If I were a Sixers player, I would read the above paragraph and ask, “Hey…what does “rotating” or “helping” on defense mean? I’ve never heard of this. Hey, Mo, can you teach us this stuff next practice?…”
Dave T….Can’t blame me for trying to come up with something, right? It just frustrated me to see Sammy posting Howard. I kept thinking, “Sammy, if you get the ball, what exactly are you going to do with it?”.
I’m signing off for the night. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I’ll try to check in at some point tomorrow (probably in the morning).
Why is Iggy not dunking the ball he goes up and tries to do a finger roll or sweeping layup all the time he missed at least 2-3 easy shots at the rim tonight. Also what is up with being up in the game with under 2 mins to go and Iggy trying to dribble behind his back and losing the ball out of bounds.
Also this team is running BUT the passes in transition are bad. As some of the commentators were saying our fast break is not smooth
Hubie Brown was great tonight and it was good to hear him after listening to Salmi all the time.
They should have taken their chance with guarding Howard one on one for the last couple of possessions even if he scores or you have to foul him and even if he were to hit two free throws a two their hurts you way less than a three
Dave T., I value Sam!s rebounding and shotblocking but everytime we talk about improving this team it is at the 1 and 2 spot. But as you have pointed out tonight, Theo showed in a short burst what a big at the foul line area that can pass and screen could do for this offense. Is 15 and 10 combined too much to ask next year from a Jason/Spieghts tandem next year, providing Jason comes back healthy along with good shotblocking ability.
guys, I just got done watching the game because I was out eating dinner with family so I recorded it. I can honestly say…. I think my heart just sank into the lower levels of my stomach. We played an overall tough, impressive, responsive, and strong game. But we lost. Im in disbelief. Thaddeus Young should not have left Lewis open. We kept doing that the whole game. When do we get the point that Rashard Lewis can shoot? This is a tough one to swallow definetly. But to answer the question at the top of the page…Yes, we can beat a good team. Just not when we give the opponent numerous wide open three’s down the stretch. Well, looks like we are going to have to shake off another tough loss. This game provides a little bit of hope though. I saw some good things out of our team, but I think Lou played too many minutes. I realize we want to see what he can do, and see if he can develop into a 20-25 minute player, but when he is shooting that bad from the field, it’s time to take a seat. Sorry to be a little harsh, but 3-10 isn’t cutting it. I realize Miller did even worse shooting (3-13) but we keep asking for Ivey, and were not getting him. I say we should have found some way to fit him in the rotation maybe at the end of the first two quarters. Maybe the last three minutes of each and we should be able to see a little bit of what he can do.
Didn’t see much of the game last night. Have a sense of it though from a lot of interesting posts. My one response: Jameer finds his shooters at prosperous times, and knocks enough of his own down to make himself a constant threat; with him playing, I suppose result
would’ve involved a bigger spread. If Sixers can’t beat Magic at home while Magic deployed a 6′ 10″ “point guard” to initiate offense, that says something about Sixers’ defensive deficiencies and Mo’s coaching. Turkoglu is a very good player, one who plays under control, but Sixers need to be smarter, more focused and disruptive on D if they want to find themselves in upper tier of league.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!