Look, I am personally getting a little tired of this team and all the fluffy talk coming out of that locker room and organization and even from the fans. I am OK with consistent improvement, but some wins must be in the mix. I am not at all a fan of moral victories, and that’s all this team has shown they are capable of right now. That and barely beating teams who are worse than they are. At some point enough is enough – right?
Tonight, the Sixers face another strong Western Conference opponent who is considerably banged up. Ron Artest and Tracy McGrady are game-time decisions so their status is up in the air due to injuries. I will repeat what I’ve asked before: will the Sixers take advantage of this? Recent results suggest no. I am going to the game and still reserve a bit (tiny bit) of hope they will. The tough road trip is over, winning home games is a must throughout the rest of season if this team has any aspirations of playing games after #82 is done.
This game is very similar to the Spurs game. Houston plays tough defense, rebounds well and shoots the three ball very well. If Artest and McGrady are out they are weaker in two of the three areas.
- Without Artest they won’t be as good defensively which is great for Andre Iguodala, who very well could be locked down and made sheepish by Ron.
- Without both those guys there is less reason to double team or help off their shooters which IN THEORY should limit their open looks.
That leaves Yao. I would simply play him straight up all game regardless if he is killing Sammy and Theo. Let him get his, and plan to stop all Houston’s complementary players who thrive off the attention being paid to Yao, Artest and McGrady. To me that is a simple winning strategy because I am not sure Yao can play enough minutes at an extremely high level to win a game on his own.
At some point improvement needs to convert to wins. Tonight is a good night to start.
Sixers vs. Rockets Game Notes
Before my thoughts on the game I got a quick story about this image. If you remember Iguodala went up and actually missed this dunk over Carl Landry. The ball bounced off the rim to Thaddeus Young who caught it and took it left, right at the rim. Carl Landry again contested, but this time Thad BANGED on him. On his way back up court, I was able to read Thad’s lips, and he said to Iguodala “I got him.“ I was excited about the flush and even more excited about the reaction. That play and verbal reaction in my opinion is what will take Thad from just good to All-Star level. It’s that type of play and mentality that has been inconsistent and often completely lacking from him. If you notice with Thad he typically only dunks like that on the break or when there is little traffic and no opposition. When there is opposition, he often goes to his “unstoppable hook,” lay-ups or softer “flips.” I hate that with a passion because he often misses them when all he had to do was get his feet right and just dunk on the guy, which would result in two, a foul or both. Until he figures out he is capable of that much more often, or if he knows already, DOES IT with regularity, I think he will reach a development plateau that has nothing to do with his ability and is purely mental.
No Ron Artest, no Shane Battier and a visibly hurt Tracy McGrady. You had to think the Sixers had as good a shot as ever to get a win against a solid but beat up Rockets. They did just that. This also marks their first win against a team with a .500 or better record since December 5th against the Pistons.
Before I get to the game notes I have to say this. I was sitting half court in the box. Thing that stood out the most for me was the crowd. Even though it wasn’t packed by any means (only 14,858 people) the crowd was very active. During the run that put them up 15 the crowd was the loudest I’ve experienced all season. Now they just need to start winning consistently so more fans come out.
Also, Ron Artest actually came out about 10-15 minutes before warm-ups and worked out. It was clear he was testing his injured right ankle. He went through some shooting drills and one-on-one with an assistant coach. He made the right decision not to play. He was moving around very gingerly. Having him and broke up Tracy McGrady on the court at the same time would have been a defensive disaster.
Game Notes
- 56% from the field. The Sixers shot the ball very well and for the most part didn’t settle for contested jump shots. They attacked the basket even when Yao was in the paint. They took advantage of a slow Tracy McGrady who couldn’t bend over and the fact that Houston’s two best defenders weren’t playing.
- 29 fast break points. Their break looks much smoother since Dileo took over (numbers support this thought as well, but I will save that for another post). Less dribbling and more up court passing.
- My biggest problem with Sammy is the fact that he doesn’t know how to bottle up the great play he has in spurts, drink it before the game and start out that way. The way he played in the last two 3rd quarters is exactly what we want from him. Strong individual and help defense and consistent effort on the boards. He didn’t play in the fourth quarter because Speights had his best game of the season. This has been part of the reason Dileo has said his minutes are down. Foul trouble and simply better play by Theo and Speights. I do not think it has anything to do with them shopping him.
- Andre Iguodala killed T-mac with his activity. McGrady couldn’t keep up at all, and Iguodala used that to get easy shots. When he starts out well and gets easy buckets, his jumper is usually better throughout the game. Tonight he was 12-19 with 28 points.
- Marreese Speights had the best came of his young career: 15 points, 8 boards 4 blocks in 23 minutes. That is extremly productive, and he was all over the place in help defense. Now he just needs to work on his man-to-man defense, and he really can be a complete player. His jumper looks much better than Elton Brand’s and with more range as well. If he develops rapidly, he could be a Brand clone with more height off the bench so the Sixers don’t skip a beat when he subs in. He very well could make Brand expendable as well if his development continues quickly and his production is consistent. That is important to note, because it could mean getting from underneath a hefty contract to fill another need. Not yet though. Just a thought.
- Free throws and early 4th quarter turnovers almost killed them. They gave up a 15-point lead in a very short period of time. I have no answer for their free throw struggles. They simply can’t shoot. If it is a concentration thing they have lacked that focus for two damn years at the line!
- Thad had an off game but more importantly got killed by Scola on the boards. He had 17 including 6 on the offensive end.
- The dude with the baby mohawk Von Wafer. Where the hell did he come from? He looked pretty good tonight making 6-7, most of which were nice pull-up jumpers.
- Yao looked terrible. He looked slow as hell with worse hands than Sammy.
- Andre Miller moved to 32nd on the career assist list, passing Larry Bird. This was especially ironic because I was sitting next to this old guy who right before Miller did it, said “That guy doesn’t know how to pass the ball.” Really?!?! haha
Finally, I gotta say this. It was a win, and I will take it (seems like everyone is making that statement this season). Baby steps I guess (I was hoping I wouldn’t have to accept that mentality). This game would have been much more fulfilling and something worth getting excited about if Houston was at full strength and played a better game. I am still left wanting with this team…
Next Game: Tomorrow at Milwaukee.
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{ 59 comments… read them below or add one }
I’m with you. In fact, I just wrote a post that addresses this very issue. After the Spurs game, fans and media pundits were trying to extol the virtues of that loss. “It was a steeping stone.” “They showed great heart.” But I don’t buy it. The only thing moral victories lead to in this league is a lottery pick.
I would actually be okay with a moral victory, because, as their record indicates, they’re not just that good yet.
The way I see it is, a team’s production (in any sport) is a random variable that has a variance. How good or bad can the Sixers be? So far, they’ve shown that they can be really bad, but they haven’t shown that they can be really good, and those are the first steps I’d like to see them take, to try and increase the upper limit of their variance. They have to figure out what it takes to play at that higher level first before finding a way to consistently stay there.
That’s the core of what was making me so upset with the damn team, I was acting like I’d seen this team (not last year’s team) play at that higher level before, when I actually hadn’t. With Stefanski’s offseason personnel changes, of course things would be different this year, and it was a mistake to make upward projections for how this season was going to progress, when negative results could’ve been just as likely (I wonder if they’re going to have a “Meet the Sixers” special before the start of next year, I wonder if there will be booing, maybe some sound editing, or some splicing of video; I wouldn’t be surprised by a protective glass of some sort, and possibly coupons). No games are must-wins for me anymore, more like must-play-well’s.
So, Stefanski, DiLeo: increase that upper threshold of what this team is capable of, let’s do this! Come on, Sixers!!!
Moral victories are meaningless. Only bad teams accept moral victories. This team may eventually come together but I doubt tonight is the night that that happens. Even by now Stefanski realizes this is a poorly constructed team. I guess Mo wasn’t the reason. To be honest I’m having a hard time remembering when these guys won 13 games. It just seems like loss after loss.
Short of a difference making trade I think Tony should demand increased focus on the defensive end. Player that can’t or won’t abide sit more often. I don’t think these 76ers have bought into the concept of team. I se other teams making crisp passes and finding the open man. I don’t see enough of that here. as everyone bought into whatever the system is? If so, why so many defensive lapses and a lack of a fluid offense in half court sets?
I think the Sixers beat the Rockets last year so maybe the have their number, otherwise, look for another home struggle.
Unfortunately guys I made it home from work by some miracle before the game has started, so the Sixers are destined for a loss. If I would have been stuck at work and had to watch the game lat night, On Demand, not in high def, while already knowing the outcome, they surely would win.
Somebody get Yao an oxygen tank
Here we go again guys. !?WTF?!
A win, I’ll take it. Sixers made me eat my words and that’s OK.
Good to see they finally held off that late-game surge by the opposition. That’s a step, right?
I liked Iguodala’s comments about Speights in the post-game. Something along the lines of “He’s got a world of talent. It’s a thin line. He’s either going to be a good player or a great player. We’re just trying to stay on him so he becomes a great player.” Had a good “big brother” tone to it.
Yeah Boom, it’s good that they held the Rockets off. Next step? Put the game away the opponent earlier so there is no need to hold them off.
The Sixers did a lot of good things tonight. I believe they had 29 fast break points and 52 points in the paint. They played very aggressively, really got after the Rockets on both ends of the floor (11 steals, 7 blocks, 13 offensive rebounds), and were able to get good shots pretty much all night. Better ball security (the Rockets had 9 steals), better defensive rebounding (the Rockets had 17 offensive rebounds), and much better free throw shooting (we were 19-35) would have put the game away much earlier (possibly even making it a blowout).
Let’s try that again…….Next step? Put the opponent away earlier so there is no need to hold them off…….that’s better.
BTW, didn’t Yao look awful slow? We were buzzing around him all night, getting to the rim, beating him to rebounds, and stripping him when he got them. He was fumbling balls on the floor and seemed to be spinning in circles a lot trying to recover underneath.
Just got back from the game, best seats I ever had,thanks S.F.W. . Ken, I disagree about the moral victory thing, if San Antonio blows them out this win may not have happened.I was eye level with Yao, and first off, Sammy played a great 3rd quarter when we had a good run. I didn!t see the negative attitude on the bench either. Props to Deleo, L.Will. hits a jumper and then gives up going around a screen and Tony sat him because of it. I love our new guard rotation also and Marreese!s jumpshot is beautiful. If he can learn to defend we really have something.
Ivey- I feel good when he is on the floor. I don’t have any stats or legitimate claims to back this feeling up. Tonight at least, it seemed like good things happened when he was in the game.
That big run they had in the fourth coincided with Yao’s exit from the game. I thought he played HORRIBLY. He looked tired and frustrated. It was probably a combination of a more athletic/energetic frontcourt (Scola and Landry) and the Sixers getting too relaxed that led to the Rockets resurgence.
Boomdizzle, Deleo went to Reggie for energy but their guards attacked the rim, their small lineup worked but eventually Deleo went to Marreese, which was nice to see.
Still…I am happy for a win. YOU HAVE TO MAKE FOR DAMN FREE THROWS YOU NON-SHOOTING SUMBITCHES. If this was closer, they would of lost purely because they can’t make free-throws. It is disgusting. It is a FREE shot, make it! They are paid so well, you would think they would be able to make a shot with no one in front of them. Maybe I am just being critical, but that wouldn’t have even been a game if they could do the simplest of things.
Thad had a quiet game scoring wise, but was very active on the offensive glass with 4 offensive rebounds. Thats a good sign. 4 steals by Andre Iguodala with 28 points added on to that. Very impressed with Iguodala’s game recently. He has clearly taken over the scoring missed by Elton Brand. I would still like very much for his turnovers/3pt attempts to be cut down but he is still playing within himself either way. Also, in my opinion, this was easily Speights best game. 6-9 shooting with 4 blocks! That away to stop taking charges and start swating away shots.
Boomdizzle
The only reason you don’t have stats to back up Ivey, is he didn’t even play 13 minutes. He was very effiecient on both ends of the floor and I feel comfortable seeing him come into the game.
Suede,
I’ll agree that fighting back from 21 down against SA helped give the team some much needed confidence. However, moral vicotries are for bad teams who know they have little hope of success. I doubt you’d hear the Celtics or Lakers say it was a moral vicotry for them to come from 21 back only to fall short in SA. They would probably just talk about the need to execute better.
Now, hopefully the Sixers use the same energy they had tonight and convert there first victory of the year in back-and-back games. That would be a positive step forward. It was nice to see Philly not have that one horrible quarter tonight. Playing a full 48 is another positive step in the right direction.
Ken, I would rather say improved play than moral victory. I thought we played very well on 3 tough courts to win at recently and the 3 wins we got before our trip I thought our play was not as good.
Suede,
Agreed. The team did play well enough to win in Denver and San Antonio. Also, they did some good things in Dallas. They are in that process of learning how to win tough games late. Does that remind of another Philly team of late.
Dannie, I think our guards now have an idea what is expected of them and if they play well and the team plays well they get more minutes. If Willie is hot early, he gets a longer run. If L.Will. plays both ends he may not come out, but even tonight in the 2nd quarter he got beat twice off a screen and despite his offense Deleo sat him. Royal comes in at the end of the 1st and 3rd quarter and if the team plays well A.Miller gets a little more rest. Its simple but effective, things like this are what disappointed me about Mo!s sorta mismash rotations.
It’s nice to see #9 have success and develop some leadership. He seems to have the respect of his teammates, which means something.
I wonder if we’ve been too harsh and hasty in our criticism of him. If I had to trade either Iguodala or Brand, I would seriousely consider the latter. Especially with the emergence of Speights. Dannie, you’re thinking of it as well!
Raro, I am REAL curious to see how Iggy handles it when Elton comes back. Does he defer a bit to get him comfortable, just play and let Elton work himself in, it should be interesting.
best win of the season so far? it looks like they might be on the verge of stringing together some W’s, especially with all these home games on the horizon. they should really be riding a 3 game winning streak heading into the weekend.
I was at the game. I am impressed with Lou W these days. He is playing alot like A Miller and using his body to get fouls. I think he has a bright future IF he keeps learning and improving his D. Tonite he was all over the 3 pt shooters, often covering 2 guys at once! I was impressed. And Sp8ts was even more impressive. A fun win!
Dannie: i see you’re committing to the Thad bandwagon. Like you said he just needs the attitude, also playing time and some better handles (McGrady barely had to move on that embarassing strip at the corner when he tried to put it on the floor)
Suede: I may finally be accepting the Lou Williams PG theory. he looked Tony Parker-ish for a while. if only he could get bigger somehow.
Iggy looked wonderful today. albeit on McGrady who apparently was very hurt. ( i think he has lost a step irregardless, Houston may wanna consider the future soon)
how is it possible that we can be this bad at FT shooting? we will continue to lose a lot of games because of this. well if the sixers dont wanna make ‘em, then they’ll have to double their efforts elsewhere to win a game.
suede: am more interested to see how DiLeo treats brand when he returns? at the 5? that small lineup is looking awfully effective.
Morty: how good did it feel to see Lou at the top of the key with the clock running down instead of Iggy?
someone’s been learning new tricks!
Enter a healthy Artest, exit win 14. Sixers got the needed W, without artistry or strong competition. Iguodala did what he wanted; Speights co-sponsored.
Sitting Yao Ming in 4th was Adelman’s best move. Sixers’ big man collective jostled Yao pretty well; smaller players zipped by him easily. Off night for the big guy it seemed.
Von Wafer. Best basketball name since God Shamgodd and Scientific Mapp.
Von Wafer..sounds like some kind of royal after dinner cookie
JayK., That was Dannies comparison, but I agree it is a possibility. Jumpin, funniest line I ever heard on Sportsradio, Missanelli when doing his college b.b. picks,” I!ll take God, plus the 5 pts.”
I did some shooter 1/2 time watching, Barry, casually hit about 6 straight set shot 3!s and L.Head looked good also, what a waste he is on their team.
God Shamgodd – Had a sick handle.
Biggest thing with Lou is he still settles for bad perimeter shots that only have one sccessful outcome: they go in. Tony Parker rarely if ever takes or settles for contested jump shots but he will force the issue at times going to the basket. But he has two positive outcomes: Get fouled and/or make the basket. Major reason Parker has shot 49.4% or better from the field 4 season straight (this season including).
I personally think too big a deal has been made about Elton impact on the offense. I think two things hurt the offense when he was in there. Him, not shooting well and showing very little ability to finish in traffic as a big man should and other players simply not making shots (wide open often times).
Dileo has said the tweaks he made to the offense will benefit Elton greatly when he returns, but other guys still have to make shots when the double teams happen and they are open to make teams pay. They simply didn’t do that in the beginning of the season.
Some Sixers players do the right thing, make the right pass at times but when it’s to ‘no catch-and-shoot’ Miller, sound play is nullified or minimized. Small point, but happened a couple times last night. A PG who can ’receive and drain’ would be a welcome addition.
Williams has same disinclination as Miller to get feet set, catch and shoot. He wants a self-styled football field of clearance before launch; it’s hard for a teammate to notch a (legitimate) assist on a jumper by him. Both Lou and Andre would rather do it themselves.
The ‘readying, catch-and shoot’ is as fundamental to basketball as a foul shot. Former Senator Bill Bradley began his campaigns there.
Last night the sixers were not ready for the small Rockets lineup in the 4th qtr. The Rockets were playing in the face defense and we didn’t handle it well. Fortunately, we lost the lead some but didn’t lose the game. Iggy & Andre were both on the bench when the Rockets run began and I believe Thad was at the 3. It was obvious that we were having difficulty scoring but DiLeo patiently left them out there longer than he should have(I think). The coach is still learning about his team on the job.
I really like this team. Suede & I were 5 rows up in section 112. Great view of the game. They obviously had a problem adapting to the personnel changes(Brand, etc) that were made but they are really likeable people/players. Reggie & Theo are a pleasure to watch. Andre is really snippy towards the refs. He gets away with it more often then not.
I also think they are ready to go on a run. Go Sixers!
Tyronn “Is that you AI?” Lue is looking up to his 7th NBA team but still has work to do to catch Everyman Kevin Ollie whose storage pod is stationed in Minneapolis, team #11.
Very good win, much needed. Agree with the point that even though it wasnt a full house, the crowd was pretty vocal and into the game. Glad to see the love they showed the Eagles, playing the fight song and all. I am happy to see when these teams realize that we are capable of supporting more than one team.
Loved the iso for LWill at the end of the game, and the way he attacked the rim. Looking forward to seeing more of that.
Great minutes from Theo and Ivey tonight, brought good energy and defense off the bench last night. Even a few points which was nice to see.
Speights looked good tonight. None of that silly trying to take a charge stuff. Played much better on the ball defense, but improvements still needed. Need to see more rebounding out of him.
Thad has to rebound more, especially when we go small and he plays the 4. And his defense really has to get better, he gets schooled WAY too much.
Iggy sucks, the Sixers suck and that’s all there is to it. The biggest problem for this team is that Iggy is terrible and thinks he’s an elite player in the NBA, but he’s not even in the top 3 on his own team. He’s no better than John Salmons…yea I said it, John Salmons. Eff Iggy, he’s a bum that doesn’t know his role.
As an up top defender, ya can’t be on heels and let Williams yo-yo ball left and right until he’s good and ready to attack; gotta jump him on his right side, force him into action and unplanned decisions, especially when you have 8 eyes of help in end of clock iso. The little kid assigned to him and his Houston teammates played that one abysmally.
Win last night means nothing if they go to Milwaukee tonight and drop a egg
Fianlly,effort that results in the ultimate result! So far, aside from the horrendous free throw shooting and the near 4th quarter meltdown, this was the best Sixers win against a quality opponent (whether healthy or not). They really exposed Yao’s weakness–speed!
Now, I am really looking forward to Elton Brand’s return from the injury and the rust. The rebounding, extra shotblocking, and the perimeter (offensively and defensively) were awful since he went down with the injury. Even Samuel Dalembert looked atrociousl on both ends of the floor. Before, he was okay. Dalembert may be anchor to the defense, but Brand was the anchor to hold the player on the floor for Dalembert to time and make the blocks to provide the defense. (But kudos to Ratliff for still being Mr. Defense–he’s a keeper for another minimum!!)
Possible instances where we lacked Brand:
@ WAS: Punish the Wizards down low like the meeting back in Philly as well as be the guy to kick the ball out to the other Sixers players when they were shooting the lights out from downtown. Perhaps more threes would have been made, double figures as a team from downtown.
v.s IND: The second half, when the game slowed down. Brand would have bothered Ford a bit from going to the paint. That would have been two points removed from what the final score was, a one point loss. Brand thrives against teams with a thin frontcourt, which is what the Pacers certainly had.
@ BOS: It was going to be tough either way, but Brand had good numbers the last time he played the Celtics. When the Celtics focused on Iggy in the second half, it could have opened things up for Brand. Also, Brand could have bothered Rondo a bit from scoring in the paint. The team played great effort wise, but really the free throw shooting and the turnovers killed us.
@DEN: Brand v.s Martin. That open lane would not have been there with Brand on the floor. Also, Brand would perhaps thrive against another shallow frontcourt. He has a great mid-range shot and perhaps Iggy would have kicked it out to Brand in time before he made the travel or his “crab-dribble”. Perhaps the three pointers taken by Denver would have been fewer and not 15. Brand is a one-on-one defender and it would have encouraged our guys to stick with the shooters.
@ UTAH: A shorthanded Jazz team without Milsap and Boozer, perhaps Brand would have eaten the paint. Brand matching up with Kirilenko would have been interesting. Derron Williams, though would still be great.
@ LAC: The results would be a little more interesting and would have been sold-out with Billy Crystal or Penny Marshall. Anyway, the Sixers would still beat the Clippers and perhaps shoot better from the perimeter. We would flex our shooting muscles against a poor shooting team poorer than ours.
@DAL: Brand would have been the other body that would have defended and urked Nowitzki. Iggy, Thad, and Evans had good stretches, but were too skinny to defend him for the whole game. Although, Jason Terry being hot in the third quarter would have been the same.
@SA: Brand would be guarding Duncan for a good stretch. Dalembert would not be in foul trouble and would be in the game longer long enough to bother Duncan with those long arms. I have seen Sammy defend Duncan better before. And, Brand would have secured the rebound after the Ginobil miss to force the game into OT.
v.s HOU: Scola would not have a monster game if Brand were facing him. Scola had Brandlike numbers. Brand would have been at the five in the second half of the fourth quarter when Adelman made that brilliant move of sitting Yao.
Point is, I can’t wait to see Brand back, to go along with Iggy’s resurgence offensively. Perhaps, Dalembert would be Dalembert again and not all those other names we call him.
I think a playoff matchup with the Magic would not be a bad idea with the frontcourt depth that we have to guard Dwight Howard. Now, we just have to focus more on defending the perimeter and not turn the ball over countless times, especially in the 4th quarter.
As Always, GO SIXERS!! (Get Rush and Marshall quality minutes!!)
What do you think of this upcoming trade since we are tracking our division rivals?
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56449/20090107/josh_howard_to_toronto/
Dannie your the man bro! Thanks for giving press to my “Thad Young has an unstoppable Hook” comment. Not yet but in the future it will be known by all as the best hook in Philly since Armon Gilliam!
Speights is great, what a rock star we have boys! I say let him start taking trey’s because his jumper looks as good as anyones on the roster. The dude has already proven to be a tremendous pick and roll/pop player now lets get this kid some post ups. Give him the dang ball more and see what happens.
Mike D
“Iggy sucks, the Sixers suck and that’s all there is to it. The biggest problem for this team is that Iggy is terrible and thinks he’s an elite player in the NBA, but he’s not even in the top 3 on his own team. He’s no better than John Salmons…yea I said it, John Salmons. Eff Iggy, he’s a bum that doesn’t know his role.”
What caused that unleashing on Iguodala? I come to this blog to talk to educated and informative Sixers fans. But Im not sure I can respect your opinion on Iguodala or the Sixers after reading that. Im sorry, but im just a little bit confused right now.
I just want to say that the only 2 players that should be called untouchable are Thad Young and Speights.
Greek - It’s my opinion that no one on this roster is untouchable. I don’t know how many times I have to say that. I like Speights and Thad but they are far from being a Chris Paul, LeBron James or Kobe Bryant – legit/unquestionable untouchables – TODAY. And to be as realistic as possible in forecasting their potential, they won’t ever get to that level either.
For me here is a hypothetical that helps determine “untouchability.” Would you trade either one of those players for Kobe, Paul, James, Wade, Deron Williams? Would you trade both those players TOGETHER for one of those guys? For me that is a simple and obvious answer (YES!) but I am sure others will disagree.
Then flip it: If you had one of those 5 players, would you trade him for Speights and/or Young? Again I think the answer is simple and obvious (NO!)
Just my point of view.
Greek, the best thing about DiLeo coaching this team is that he and Ed both want to develop those guys. They should get ample time to grow. Don’t think anyone is untouchable but don’t think Ed wants to blow this thing up. Sammy & Andre M in that order are the 2 most likely to leave. I personally want Andre M here. Love to see a shooter in Willie’s spot. Sammy & Willie for what? Don’t think we’ll see takers for that. We’ll see.
The Greek – With the way Iguodala has been playing since December, I think you would have to put him there as well. The only thing he hasn’t been doing extremely well lately is 3pt/Ft. I think if the team finds a shooter that can play some minutes, his 3pt attempts should not be a factor, as far as the FT’s, I can live with that.
Mike D – That was the worst rant ever. How can you possibly say that Salmons is better than Igoudala? Maybe at shooting the long ball. Show me one other category he excels in other than scoring, and I think IGG is a better all around scorer, he has just started slower. At the end of the year IGG is going to be somewhere around- 20 pts/6 rbs/5 ast/2 stl/ 2 to/ 50% FG/75% FT. I feel that is just as good as any 20 pts/10 rbs player in the league. If he continues to play the way he has, we expect, and is capable of, I think that not only makes him the best player on the Sixers, but possibly the 3rd best SF in the East behind Lebron/Pierce. Granger/ Buter/ Wallace and Prince would definitely be in the conversation, but I would rather have IGG over any of them. I think you are just filled with bias, but maybe so is my defense.
Dannie – You are correct, but I think the reasons you list are just as well the reasons they may be “untouchable”. We all know that you can’t get better making lateral moves, and trading very promising young talent for other teams proven “solid” players don’t get you very far at all either. I think the only way you move this teams strong young core, is if you get one of those “game changing” players, and that would take a lot of very strong work and some luck by ES.
Ryan F – I don’t follow at all.
Great, great players are untouchable when they are still in their prime or near peak level. Obviously there are exceptions, but I can not think of any in my existence – 27 years. Speights and Thad are not great now and I honestly don’t see that potential (hall of fame) either.
Maybe “great” potential might be untouchable for some but not me. And I don’t see that level of potential. With that said I am a strict and harsh critic especially when it comes to calling athletes great. I know other people use the word much more loosely which is a major pet peeve of mine.
Even in this post I never called either of those guys great. Not all all-stars are great players in my opinion.
suede, tackling your longer-than-usual post-Spurs comments, first two items (needed some time to think about it, really busy now):
1) So we don’t have a team with shooters, we have an offense based on swing guys wanting to go man0-a-mano (can I call it “mano” offense) with their defender. Are you suggesting, on offense, that Sam gets in their way? So we want a center with a reliable jumper (Speights, Jason Smith) who’s the 4th option on a play, and will sneak in behind the guy driving the lane to try and get offensive rebounds (Speights)? What’s your ideal center here?
2) About Brand, it sounds like you wanna turn him into a role player, and I actually agree with that for this year’s team. There’s something that’s happened since he went down that Stefanski should worry about – the shots that Brand was taking have been re-distributed, and everyone seems happier because of it, and that’s really key for any business, to have happy workers. He comes back, everyone gets to shoot less, they’re less excited about the games, and then they start to press because they’ll be thinking when they take their shots because they know they won’t have that many.
And to touch one of your other points, and to get back to another discussion earlier – this is why I really like Jason Smith for this roster. You can only have so many guys who wanna shoot a lot, you need other utility guys, like the defenders you mentioned. Jason Smith will never be taking shots at crunch time. When you have Elton Brand, Lou, Thad, even Willie out there, he’ll never be a primary scoring option. But his team defense is solid, he almost always knows where he needs to be on the floor, he hustles. And you can’t leave him open because he can hit that jumper, and he knows how to get open for that jumper if he needs to bail out one of his basket-attacking teammates. AND he’s good friends with Sam – maybe it wasn’t a coincidence that the year Sam finally has a really good year is when he makes a good friend on the team? Ha ha… Have you seen those little cellphone commercials they made together? If not, I can send you the link, they’re interesting…
Dannie,
Your arguement about “untouchables” makes perfect sense but I would add that probably 99% of all current NBA players would not be characterized as “untouchable”. Who wouldn’t trade anyone to get a player like Kobe, Paul, LeBron, Wade, or Derron Williams? The point is these guys aren’t available and never will be available unless they’re a free agent. The Sixers must maintain a core of players for continuity regardless of whether or not they meet the definition of “untouchable”. At the moment I believe the Sixers core players are Brand and the youngsters (Williams, Young, Speights) until someone better comes along.
Dannie – I guess what I am trying to say is, that moving either of the younger guys (Lou/Speights/Thad/IGG) doesn’t make any sense to me unless you can find and impact player in return. If there was a way to package them all up and pull in a All-Star year in and year out or a player that can take over a game all by themselves, that would be worth it. I am not a person that thinks any of these players are going to be the next Wade, Bryant or Duncan, but I think with the exception of Iguodala (and I hope he hasn’t), none of them have hit their ceiling and they are already showing glimpses, and maybe just maybe one of them does become something similar to one of those players, quality wise. I think Thad is going to be good, not as good as some people say, and Speights, it is just too early for a verdict, at the least I think both will be solid contributers on a winning team within the next few years and I ‘d rather it be in Phila. This team needs a little restructuring around these players, and it should be possible without anything too drastic. I think that there are two very movable players that could bring the team some good pieces/picks/money in return, I say go that route, evaluate the rest of the year and go from there. I am far from an expert and my opinion is probably swayed by sentiment as much as by the thought of more W’s.
Ken/Ryan F – I get what you are saying and don’t disagree about having a core group of guys.
EXACTLY! The untouchable tag is for maybe two hand fulls of players in the NBA. Core players and untouchable players are completely different things in my book. You can have core guys but that doesn’t mean any one of them is untouchable.
Let me put it a different way. It was stated Thad, Lou, Dala, Speights are all part of the Sixers young core. I am cool with that. But I am not attached to any one of those players in terms of I wouldn’t consider moving them like some people are. In fact until the “core” starts winning not some, but a lot of games I would trade any one of them if I thought it meant more victories over a reasonable number of seasons. In my mind trading an “untouchable” player in his prime or near it has little to no chance of improving the team in terms of wins over an extended period of time, they are simply that good and have that much impact on winning games. Out of those guys who would you categorize like that?
Instead of using the term “untouchable” I would simply stay within the context of the Sixers and rank the players based on my propensity to move them and how much return I must get in doing so. So you put the guys you most would trade for the least return at the front of the line and the guys you would least want to move and if you did would need to net you the most return at the back of the list. A player that is untouchable is kept off the list. I don’t think the Sixers has anyone worthy of being kept of the list. Meaning someone could probably offer a realistic deal for any one on the roster that I would take. Who could realistic offer a deal for Kobe or LeBron etc. except exchanging those exact players.
Make sense?
Again, some terms I am more strict with and tend to use less liberally as other. “untouchable” and “great” are certainly on that list. I just think they are handed out way to quickly and to often.
Dannie – “Make Sense?” Certainly, and agreed. Those terms are sometimes used loosely to define players on ability or expectation, while there are honestly only a few who actually deserve the true meaning of the words. The real “untouchable” and or “great” players are measured by absurd talent, legacy and how their fingers shine in the summers.
Also, I never got a response about that “trade kicker” in Sammy D’s contract. Is that common, or is it typically reserved for those players we’re discussing, and does that affect the receiving teams cap space or is it just something paid to the player? I tried Google a couple times and the only other names I could find was KG and CP3. I know it is off topic but I figured I had your attention and would ask.
Dannie,
I agree with your assessment about untouchable players. Majority of them will one day be Hall of Fame players, or Hall of Fame potential. They will consistantly win games for their ball club and is a near lock for the All Star Game…every single year.
But I think just because your not untouchable for one team, might not mean your arent for another. An example? Hmmmmm, I don’t really know a great example, but I’ll just use this one. Kevin Garnett was traded from Minny and almost immediatly became “untouchable” for the C’s. Granted, the T’wolves traded for the future getting draft picks and Al Jeff.
The only way we are going to get an “untouchable” player by trade, is if it is another KG type of trade…where we trade our future, for their present. Looking at possible scenarios, I don’t really see one. Allen Iverson, would have been a possible trade for us to make if he didn’t get traded to the Pistons first.
So let’s just say we do get one of these “untouchable” players. We would have to trade draft picks and our “future.” Names that come to mind would have to be Lou, Thad, Speights, and/or Iggy. For my purposes, let’s keep Iggy and trade Thad, Lou, and a couple draft picks for one of these untouchable players. Could we win with an “Allen Iverson” type player…added with Brand, Iggy, Miller, and Sammy/Speights?
I think we would have a legit chance with that starting lineup. The problem would then be the bench.
What do you think guys?
Zack, I just think because we don!t have a legitimite #1 guy that we need 5 guys that can score. I see no available p.g.! s in the league or draft that fit this team [deep threat, good defender and some size] so if A.Miller ,Iggy and Elton are our big,,okay medium three than a shooter at the 5 and 2 works for me. I like Jason because he seemed,like Reggie to bring energy every night. Elton, well we were just starting to see Elton before his injury so he just needs to get his points in the flow of the game when he comes back. Iggy has been playing well but until we get some wins I am going to temper my enthusiasm.
Ryan F – Sorry for the delay I was researching this and will probably dedicate a short post to it because I think it’s extremely important information when considering trades.
I read today that Dalembert has a 15% trade kicker. The best way to explain a trade kicker is by simply calling it a “trade bonus.” Meaning if the player is traded (the first time) he gets some sort of monetary bonus. It can be a set dollar figure our a percentage of the remaining contract up to a maximum of 15% (this depreciates during the season).
I will probably go into more depth because it is kind of complicated stuff from what I am reading.
Just know this – Billy King is a f’ing idiot and his terrible contracts are still killing the Sixers to this day.
No problem, I knew it was some complicated stuff. I was trying to figure it out and it didn’t make much sense to me. I just couldn’t believe when I saw that he had a clause in his contract, you would think the excessive dollar amount would have been enough to sign him.
Looks like somebody is using my handle “Mike D” or simply has the same name as me, but I’d never rag on Iggy like that, he’s still my #2 guy on Dannie’s list. When you go thru the league and look at other #2’s on teams I think Iggy stacks up just fine.
The biggest difference is this team doesn’t have a #1, so Iggy has to do more than he can handle. If we had a true superstar who commanded all the attention, then Iggy would be just fine.
Still hoping Elton can be a #1 maybe next year, maybe it takes that long to get over his injury.
PS Haven’t been very active on this blog ’cause I got laid off and that really sucks, so I’ve been full time job hunting and these days that ain’t easy.
What caused that unleashing on Iguodala? I come to this blog to talk to educated and informative Sixers fans. But Im not sure I can respect your opinion on Iguodala or the Sixers after reading that. Im sorry, but im just a little bit confused right now….
Call it what you want but I’m not impressed with his play, not even a little bit, this year. He got paid more than he should have and now everyone can see that he didn’t deserve that contract. Miller, Brand, and Thad are more valuable on this team than Iggy. Maybe the Salmons comment was a little harsh but I’m frustrated with this guy thinking he’s a star when he’s nothing more than a good role player.
As far as the team sucks comment, they do… they have the potential to be good but are dramatically underperforming, therefore they suck. You can make your opinions based on potential but I’ll make mine on reality.