I figured I would get this post out early so we can move on from last night’s loss. Anyone got specific keys to the game against the Spurs tonight?
Here are mine, and I find it particularly ironic given the hot topic on the blog right now – Samuel Dalembert, and to a lesser degree, Theo Ratliff. Why? Because the San Antonio Spurs are the best three-point-shooting team in the NBA at 40% – and they attempt 20 per game.
The Spurs have the 2nd (Matt Bonner) and 4th (Roger Mason) best three-point shooters in the NBA on the court for 21 and 30 minutes per game. If you add Bruce Bowen (21 mpg) who is shooting 47.7% from three, but doesn’t qualify in terms of made threes to be amongst the league leaders, the Spurs would actually have the 2nd, 3rd and 5th best in the league behind the arc. And that doesn’t even consider Ginobili (36.4%), Finley (39%) and Hill (37.8%) who are all above league average. It’s clear this is powerful weapon for the Spurs.
So what the hell does that have to do with Sammy and Theo? The Spurs get all their attempts (wide open attempts at that) in two main ways: Tim Duncan kicking out of double teams and Parker and Ginobili penetration and kick.
The benefit of having Sammy is that the Sixers can attempt to play Duncan straight up in the post – and Sam has actually done a fairly good job of it in the past. That to a degree takes away one main source of open three point attempts. The second is being disciplined and selective with their help on penetration. Obviously the Sixers guards and wing players need to do a good job of not letting Parker and Ginobili get in the lane. But let’s be real, they are going to get in the lane – it’s what they do well, and the Sixers don’t have lock-down perimeter defender to contain it. What I would do is not leave shooters and force those guys to make tough shots over our shot blockers. That is why Theo is important. We will likely need all 12 fouls between Sam and Theo to play that defensive style.
Also, I would strategically substitute the bigs this way… Have either Sam or Theo on the court whenever Duncan is in and play Speights whenever Duncan is on the bench OR play Speights at power forward next to Sam or Theo when Duncan and Kurt Thomas are on the floor together. Why? I think Duncan would school the young’n and force the Sixers to double. Also, playing the small line up when Bonner is on the floor works since he will be on the perimeter, less likely to take advantage of Thad down low. When Thomas is on the floor he could post up Thad with success and again force the Sixers to double, which is why I like Speights there for those few minutes during the game.
There you have it. That is my strategy for the game. Let’s hope DiLeo has something in place that leads to a win in Texas tonight.
Sixers vs. Spurs Game Notes
Ouch! That was rough. The Sixers fell behind by 21 in first quarter, trailed by 16 at the half and fought all the way back to tie the game late in the third to make for a very entertaining fourth quarter that ended in disappointment.
There is nothing to analyze about this game the difference was clear. The Spurs shot 15-26 from three. That was enough to overcome
- 54% shooting by the Sixers
- Getting out-rebounded 40-32 by the Sixers
- Getting out shot by 7 made free throws by the Sixers
- A 26-14 advantage on the break for the Sixers.
- And a solid floor game (except the last possession) by the Sixers only turning the ball over 8 times.
The Sixers played a good offensive game tonight and pretty much have this entire road trip. But their defense, particularly on the perimeter has let them down at times. They have to understand they can’t compete from the three point line so they can’t allow teams that many open shots and to create that large an advantage from three. It’s extremely difficult to overcome that as we saw tonight and in the Denver game. Their perimeter defense on this road trip has been the difference between tough, hard fought wins and disappointing loses.
Next Game: Tuesday at home against the Houston Rockets.
P.S.
The sad part for me about Andre Miller at the end of the game is I was saying the whole fourth quarter to go to Miller if the Sixers have a chance to win or tie at the end of the game. He has been the one guy that makes big shots to get or keep the Sixers in games but they never really go to him when the game in on the line in single possession situations. Well they did it and he ended up committing his only turnover of the night. Just frustrating.
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Dannie I wrote fairly extensively on Sixers, and offered my strategy for tonight but it’s on the previous Sixer thread (#52, posted 3:45 p.m.). Do you have a simple means to transfer it without my re-typing? If so, I’d appreciate that effort.
I want my starters to look like they know what to do with the ball -without rushing, panicking, dominating it, dribbling/pounding it, kicking it, throwing it out of bounds or into an opponent’s hands. I therefore nominate the following as starters for Spurs game tonight: Willie Green, Royal Ivey, Thad Young, Donyell Marshall & Marreese Speights. Let the egomaniacal, multi-millionaire ‘geek squad’ (persistent, sourpussed referee-baiters) sit and watch for a loooong stretch … might learn a thing or two about pace, humility and a sum being greater than individual parts.
Of course, there’s zero chance of my hypothetical occurring, given braintrust’s caution and timidity towards upsetting “stars” sensibilities and emotional balance/psychological comfort, along with business concerns for customer expectations. Another L, right this way. “Remember the Alamo!”
Disagree with you bski: Sixers’ poor record is more the result of highly-sporadic defensive play and sloppy ball management than shooting inaccuracy, though the latter factor is certainly contributive. Bob Cousy, K.C. Jones and Bill Russell couldn’t shoot – but their Celtic squads won due to great team play and defensive diligence when it mattered. Sixers are emotionally immature and mentally soft, not up to strong challenges. Yes, watch these athletes fly often – out of position, and off the handle!
To close on an upbeat note: After the Sixers canned their nepotistically-inserted head coach, Cheeks, for losing the team’s ear through basic incompetence, their replacement head coach, DiLeo
(who learned defensive concepts from Paul Westhead – egad!), has
instilled staunch West Germanic dual gender championship ideas that pre-date Live Aid at JFK , and he’s steered the team to the 19th best record in the NBA! “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall!”
Dannie.…My key would be to completely shut down Parker and Duncan. Then the Sixers could get a win and I can beat you in our fantasy league matchup this week, hahaha.
JJG – Done
BSKI – Hahaha, Yes I have a conflict of interest tonight.
Thanks, Dannie, you’re a gentleman and a computer-scholar!
Happened to me the other night, Dannie. As you know, I have C.J. Miles, Kirilenko, and Deron Williams. When we played the Jazz, I was torn every time one of them made a play. C’est la fantaisie, no?
Dannie Sam straight up on Duncan, swarm arc shooters, smartly collapse and cover on inevitable Parker/Ginobili penetration … I get it, good theory, but even given a Duncan tamp down by Sam (& Theo), makes for a lot of split-second decision-making and maneuvering for a team that has shown to be deficient in that way. I tend to think it’s “pick your poison” tonight.
JJG – Pretty much always a pick your poison game when you play the elite teams. For the Sixers right now I’d rather play game of who can make the most 2-point shots rather than threes because it’s pretty clear the Sixers can’t compete at all in that area.
I’d play ‘em straight up (with recognition and lean to most dangerous rangers) until the 3s begin to drop.
jjg: With all due respect, you gotta be kidding me with that proposed lineup. I highly doubt the benched starters would learn a thing.
Paradox: The more the Sixers lose, the more they gain that underdog edge.
Will Spurs take court in holiday spirit, absent keen determination?
Not kidding, Morty. I’d like to see it play out. Drastic changes are needed, start with present roster experimentation; truly see what ya got before horse trading. Why not at 13 & 19? Brand or no Brand, team is middle of the pack. Basketball is played by people, not names, reputations or mythologies. I think you might be surprised by what you see with that group. Revelations may arrive about those on court and those on bench. Shake it up. Cost, at most: some controversy, a loss, some passing embarrassment. Gain, perhaps: new light, fresh perspective. NBA franchises being increasingly corporate and conservative - won’t happen. As to benched starters learning, hope springs eternal but I tend to see it your way there.
It’s not your aptitude but your attitude that determines your altitude … governing idea behind my choice of 5.
Offensively, Thad has to use his quickness advantage, drive and kick to Sam and Theo when Tim helps. Defensively, man up , and other than Parker we should be able to cover the rest, please don!t leave the shooters. Dannie, I!m going to focus on Parker and see if L.Will. could become that type of point, especially on the screen and rolls. Dannie, last night Theo was short corner, most of the night, that is how he got the 2 dunks. Without Elton in there I don!t understand why Sam isn!t put there also, seems his tip dunks are less of an option this year, maybe he is taking the coaches advice, less touches etc. to the extreme.
Actually Dalembert is one of the few players that can really guard Duncan one-on-one. See the last meeting against the Spurs. Also, Miller had 32 points on 11/14 shooting against them, but hopefully not commit 8 TOs like he did yesterday. That was the only shocking stat of yesterday’s game.
To those who were nonplussed by Dalembert’s 4th Q no-show, he came out snortin’ in 3rd (on contrasting Ratliff’s good effort example), but got no PT after coming down with rebound (w/2:20 left in 3rd) and traveling in awkward attempt to do something with the ball. Guess staff decided their 60 mil C needed to learn to establish a pivot foot on landing … elementary, my dear Watson.
Guys, I!m gonna go Andy Rooney on you; did you ever wonder, how a team can be 10 games over 500 and give up only 93 ppg. with a center tandem of Bonner,Oberto and K.Thomas [only 15 min. per]. It makes me wonder if Elton gets back to full health [ 18 ppg. and 10 reb.] could a tandem of Spieghts, Theo and Jason be good enough IF the right coach and defensive system is brought in.
Suede…A big part of the reason those guys work for the Spurs is because of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli, as well as a few others. It wouldn’t work for us because Elton is no Timmy, Miller is no Parker, Iguodala is no Ginobli, and on down the line.
bski, I think you could’ve stopped at Tim Duncan. Swap Brand for Duncan and we could be the Spurs. Although a couple shooters would also help.
Blski, is Duncan, down the defensive end, THAT much better than a healthy Elton, and if you compare the other 4 starters, well I just think a Thebedouix or Van Gundy could do wonders here.
Suede, after watching Brand vs double teams/defensive pressure on offense there seems to be no comparison. Duncan makes great decisions with the ball. He is also much more mobile on defense. I don’t think they can even be compared. Duncan can carry a team. He’s a superstar. Brand is not.
Crazy thing about Brand and Duncan is that their numbers are almost the same. Duncan is a better rebounder and defensively Duncan is bigger so he can defend both front court positions with success. The difference is in team success and overall versatility. Brand isn’t as good on the low block as Duncan and at least from what I’ve seen doesn’t have that dominating ability.
In terms of turnovers/taking care of the ball Duncan isn’t much if at all better than Brand. We have a small sample size this season. They turn the ball over about the same.
S.F.W., just talking defense, when playing Pheonix or Lakers Duncan can!t be everywhere, how do you cover for Bonner, that is what I am saying. They have a system or mindset that works because the pieces fit. All I!m saying is that is how we close the gap and move up the ladder in the league, if we can get the guy that puts such a system in.
Suede – There aren’t very many teams that have two strong offensive front court players that would put the Spurs in a terrible disadvantage with Bonner. And he makes up for it by stretching the floor on offense. Also, you typically see Thomas get more minutes in games against Phoenix and LA where those teams do have two strong front court players.
Dannie, I was shocked at how low Thomas!s minutes are, Bonner and Tolliver [2 shooters] seem to be what Pop wants on the court for the most part.
Suede – Thomas is a veteran playoff contributor, not a vital regular season guy. I have to imagine Pop is trying to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Similar to why P.J. Brown only played half the season last year. And why a playoff team very well may pick up Robert Horry at some point down the stretch.
Suede…Regarding Brand being no Duncan, I was talking more about the offensive end. I suppose that if Brand had the shooters around him that Duncan does, Brand certainly could be Duncan, or at least be much more effective than he is now with passes, re-posting, and such.
I do agree that the right coach or coaches could get a lot more out of what we have. You mentioned Jerry Sloan a while back. I would love to have him here for many reasons. (At a minimum, it would be great to have him long enough to get the most out of everyone we currently have, find out their individual and collective ceilings, make an accurate evaluation, and know where to go to make it work).
Sloan would demand that we play his way and the guys would do it because his success would command their respect. Also, I believe a guy like Sloan would have the cojones to do what needs to be done with the roster as far as playing or sitting whoever whenever as well as the clout to tell management who is good enough to stay, who needs to go, and who they need to bring in and have them actually do it. He has what it takes to turn this thing around. Unfortunately, it ain’t happening.
By the way, if Van Gundy is a stand in for Ron Jeremy than Pop could be the same for Donald Sutherland.
Well didn’t take long, huh? One minute in and Bonner is 2-2 from 3-pt range.
Sorry. Bonner had a foot on the line on his second shot. Still 2-2 for 5 points in one minute though.
What did I say in my key to the game? It’s about their three point shooting. And what is happening, they are raining threes early. Looks like it will be a ridiculously long night.
No….Bonner’s second shot was changed back to a 3. That makes the Spurs 3-3 so far. Down 14-4 already and I’m thinking about switching to the Colts-Chargers game already.
Well boys, that’s gonna do it for me. 40-19 after 1 quarter. 8-9 3-pointers for the Spurs. Since I doubt we will even have 40 at the half and I know we won’t be holding the Spurs scoreless, I can’t watch anymore. This has all the makings of a laugher where the Spurs will be emptying their bench for the majority of this game. Too painful. Talk to you later.
We need defense, 3pt that is. Yes we have interior D, but where is the run out. I am disgusted, get Ivey in there asap
San Anton scores 40 in the 1st, WTF!!!!!!
Sammy makes
makes the ABSOLUTE DUMBEST FOULS in the world! AND CAN’T EVEN DRIBBLE. OR REBOUND
We got a game.
Holy cow! I couldn’t stay away. I checked in halfway through the 3rd and it was 76-68. Can’t believe it. If not for those 2 3-pointers by the Spurs at the end of the quarter…..
I see us playing hard but, unless we can stop the 3-point barrage, I don’t think we can pull this one out. I’m staying with it until the end now.
OUCH
Aaaaaaaaaaaah! After all that, a forced pass turnover and no box out on Parker, both by Miller, cost us a chance to at least get to overtime if not pull out a win.
Ouch indeed! That one hurt. Good all around game though, wish we had done a better job of denying second chance points. And Thad’s alley oop dunk… damn.
@ bski: It was Miller’s cold blooded shots that got us there too.
@ all: Fun game to watch.
Randolph – Welcome to the blog. Hell of a game to watch. We can only hope sooner rather than later the end result will be in the Sixers favor.
Wow, What a game. The Sixers are coming together. Hope they have it on Tuesday against Houston. I’ll be at the game. First game back after trip usually isn’t a good one. Great football game on also!
This team plays with heart to say the least!! But we need to get Rush and Marshall their minutes to any answer some of our shooting woes though.
SFW – I will be at the game as well on Tuesday. Another tough Texas squad and another beat up and injured team that the Sixers NEED to pray on.
Randolph…Very true. Not blaming Miller for the loss. Just tough to see it end like that.
Dannie, for some reason I’ve historically had tickets for these first game back from road trips. Effort usually falls short. Hope it isn’t the case on Tuesday. Need a win.
Has Andre Miller’s game evolved since he’s been a sixer to be a tougher player? I thought he was a somewhat soft point guard for Denver but really hadn’t seen him often. He’s one tough son-of-a-gun out there. Want to sign him. Preferrably for 2 years probably have to be for 3. Love his effort and guts. Love the Andre/Lou WIll combo.
Thanks for the welcome. I’ve been checking in for a while (on the blog and comments) and respect what I am reading. I hope to submit from now on.
In entry 47 I said soft what I really meant was Andre used to be a finesse player. He now seems to play a much more physical game.
.S.F.W., watched 1st half, taped 2nd; can!t wait to veiw today, till the end.
By the way, I got us Dq. Cook, check out my B.King trade on Sammy post.
So what do we think? Did we see something last night? Did we finally gain a toe hold? Did something finally click? Did we establish something solid in that second half that we can carry forward and build on?
I realize that we still did not play a full 48 minutes and that our perimeter defense is still not what it needs to be, but does that have to mean that it’s just more of the same leading to another loss (No moral victories)? It felt different and more substantial than that to me. How about you guys?
bski, Even with the loss, I sense a much more confident team. The comeback was reminicent of last years team. We’ll have to see if it continues. Tuesday’s game may be tough coming off the road trip.
S.F.W., you were right, Bargnani is available. Blski, if you had to pick one guy who affected the game defensively the most for us last night, who would it be.I haven!t watched the 2nd half yet but Reggie seemed, in the 1st half to raise our ENERGY level greatly. He seems to have to get minutes for this team to get after it, so to speak.
Suede…If you check the earlier comments you’ll see that after we were down 40-19 at the end of the 1st, I stopped watching. I switched over to the Colts-Chargers. I decided to check in on us at halftime of the football game. When I did it was already halfway through the 3rd and we were only down 76-68. I watched the rest of the game from that point so I have no idea what went on in the 2nd quarter, sorry to say.
From what I saw, Ratliff had a major impact on the defense.
Blski, read them earlier, sorry. Going to watch 2nd half in a bit.
Once again no Sam at all in the 4th. He also sat for the final 5 minutes of the 3rd. I would say that DiLeo put Ratliff in to give Sam a rest, liked what he saw from Ratliff and kept him in, except that Ratliff sat at the start of the 4th and DiLeo had Speights on the floor instead of Sam.
As far as the energy level, it was noticeably different when I came back to the game. We really took it to the Spurs hard in the second half. Lots of determination, intensity, and focus. We just couldn’t get enough stops to overtake them….and we only played this way for one half (maybe 3 quarters depending on what I missed in the 2nd quarter) of the game.
I know Dannie is coming out with a trade post today, and I want to throw this out there; what is our braintrust thinking as far as can we play our style without Sammy and could a guy like Bargnani fit for 20 min. a night because of Reggie and Elton!s presence at the 4. At 5 mill. per he may be a gamble worth taking because if you move J.Smith as part of the deal [1.5 mill, similar player] it could prove to be a steal. He blocks 1.3 shots in 26 min. compared to Sammy!s 1.8 in 24, although numbers don!t ever tell the whole story. He is 23 and a guy that fills a need.
TP’s buzzer beater was killer, but I still liked what I saw out of the Sixers last night. For the first time this season it looked like they were focused, confident, and supportive of each other. I saw a lot of what seemed like positive communication. A loss to the Spurs shouldn’t be disappointing, so hopefully that attitude carries over to a beat up, beatable Rockets squad.
After al,l I think we all hate a loss, but this one was not as bad. I had no expectation of a win in San Antonio, but they played them hard and shook em’ up right to the end.
I think with the lack of expectation recently, if they actually have a couple more games like this I would be satisfied
Yeah I am pretty anxious to see what you have thought of Dannie, unlike the most of us, you think before you type.
Guys, please read the following and give your opinion, I think I figured IT out, as far as our team.Just watched 2nd half, unbelieveable !!!!!
First point,Sammy. Dannie, I disagree when you say that we have a blindness towards Sam, I just feel we play better a lot when he isn’t out there and it is NOT his fault. In the last month he has done everything the coaches have asked down the offensive end, less shots, less bad decisions, and better screening. He just isn’t what this team needs at the 5. I believe he can be on a championship team if surrounded by shooters or a superstar that can get his own shot.
Elton, all the “we can’t run with Elton” talk is bullshit I believe, the reason we have trouble adjusting to Elton is because we deferred too much to him and we are at our best without a singular low post player. Our top 4 players [A.Miller,Iggy,Thad and L.Will.] all play better 15 ft. and in and succeed better without a player clogging their workspace. Elton will work here I believe because he is better playing 10 to 15 ft. away from the basket, just like Thad is doing now.
Dannie, I kept saying Marreese was always getting open jumpers, I think with our team makeup opposing centers instinctly help and back off our centers. I think we have scored MORE low post area baskets since Elton has been hurt because our post player by committee [Thad,Iggy,A.Miller] is playing to our strength.
Dannie, every player since Dileo took over talks about defensive details being stressed in practice. I thought the L.Will. at the p.g. was the biggest issue for E.S. to find out but I think whether we can defend without Sammy or another shot blocker is the bigger point. A.Miller, Iggy, and Thad are VERY difficult to defend when 15 ft. from the basket if the opposing bigs can’t help, I think we are seeing that lately. When Elton comes back a Spieghts Elton tandem should be able to keep the opposing teams bigs from collapsing too much and if we can get a 5 that can consistently hit a jumper [Bonner type] and a 2 guard that plays Willie’s minutes [20 per game] that is a sniper, I really believe this team will take off.
Our strength is guys that can break their man down and until we put shooters at the 5 and 2 for at least 24 min. a night we aren’t capitalizing on our strengths.
Final point, defense. We need to reverse our thinking on our role players, instead of shooters as our role players we need defenders. Look at the Spurs, they look sluggish they go to K.Thomas, Bowen, Udoko, etc.. If our defense was a candle, Reggie would be a match. We have the pieces in place [Reggie,Theo and Royal ] are perfect. If our players are each MORE accountable defensively and it allows us to play shooters more minutes I believe we can win without a superstar because a superstars strength is creating something out of nothing and I believe L.Will.,Iggy,Thad and A.Miller are pretty good at that already. What do you guys think?