Nuff said!
This is was a pro-Ty Lawson Sixers blog and still is. I love the kid and am quite envious of Denver. So chances are you will see a post like this here and there. If you don’t like the infatuation, skip it or take a spin over to the pro-Jrue Sixers blog.
I actually like Jrue and wish we had the opportunity to really see what the kid can do. But until we get a new coach, the GM demands Jrue plays or Eddie Jordan stops with his cluelessness, I’ll keep tracking Lawson for my own entertainment and the entertainment of others like me who are in the Ty fan club.
Feel free to use this post to comment on the kid that was too short for the Sixers yet capable of splitting double teams and posterizing NBA centers.
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{ 25 comments… read them below or add one }
i’d like to blame this one on the GM but Holiday was the best choice. no one knew Lawson was gonna hit the pros that big. Denver had the luxury of taking that chance. the one I really cry for is Brandon Jennings. considering we were never in a position to get him but an aggressive trade here and who knows….
jeez that guy is gonna be a poor man’s Kevin Durant at worst.
Umm Jkay yeah that’s not right at all actually.
EVERYONE thought Ty was the most NBA-ready point guard (some thought overall player) in the draft. And thought he could come in right away and contribute.
All stats suggested this as well.
Right now, he is playing EXACTLY as he did in college. Making his open shots, dominating in pick and roll situations, attacking the basket and passing well while not turning the ball over.
I for one was 100% sure he would be a good player immediately and the right player for the Sixers, the roster we have the way we wanted to play. That’s what you expect from a 3 year player, that played at a really high level in a top conference and 3 deep runs in the tournament.
You statement is actually more accurate toward Jrue Holiday. No one knew at all what he was/is capable of. He had a mediocre year at UCLA and was drafted on size and 100% potential. He did next to nothing in his college season.
And right now with Eddie Jordan supposedly looking for that top guard off the bench he hasn’t distanced himself in terms of performance from Willie Green or Royal Ivey.
Furthermore, what was the drafting strategy and how does it align with where the GM and ownership view the team? Are we trying to win more games right now? Ty was the right choice. Are we trying to win more games later – Ty was still the right choice.
It doesn’t matter.
I like Jrue and think he could be a decent player. I hope we get to see something from him this year. But in the end I always believed he would never be as good as Lawson at any point in their careers.
I liked Jennings too and would have loved to have him over Jrue if it was drafting on pure potential. I just had concerns about his attitude coming in. He had all the ability in the world and is showing it now.
The thing that confuses me the most is Flynn going ahead of him or Lawson. Flynn has played well and is actually starting and playing more minutes Sessions. But I didn’t think he was better than Lawson or Jennings.
And if I am not mistake I am pretty sure there was no way the Bucks would have passed on the chance to draft Jennings. It’s clear he was their guy after seeing them let Session walk after playing so well for them.
Dannie – You know I’ve been a screaming angry maniac about Ed’s decision not to draft a sure thing in Lawson since June, so I am thrilled you put that Youtube link up. A few days ago I was going to jokingly recommend that you start a “Ty’s Corner” section on ReclinerGM so we could keep track of just how well our shoulda/coulda/woulda been starting PG was playing for Denver throughout the season. Second time this decade a legit starting NBA PG has slid to the 20-22 range and wound up on a good team because other teams went for younger projects (the other being Jameer Nelson, who granted, did take some time to pan out).
JKay – There were LOTS of people…both fans (many on this site) and scouts/GMs/NBA media that thought Lawson should have gone sooner than he did, and that he should have been our choice. Not sure why anyone could say “No one saw this coming,” if anyone watched his last season at UNC. And this is coming from a guy that hated on Lawson his first two years at UNC…but he shut me the hell up and really, really elevated his game during their championship run. Can’t say enough about the kid.
ALL his strengths as a basketball player fit like a freaking glove to the kind of athletic talent we had on our team. He has officially entered the “Rajon Rondo / Aaron Brooks / Devin Harris” freakishly quick floor to floor category…looks to pass first but knows how to score…attacks the basket relentlessly…doesn’t turn the ball over in traffic…makes good decisions…athletic as hell…good set shot…best college PG at running the break…hawkish on ball defender…extremely coachable and dedicated to improving his game. Went out of his way to say he WANTED to play for Philly. Excels in halfcourt sets. Excellent at dishing to the open man in traffic.
Yeah…gee, no one saw Ty becoming a good NBA player coming. Sorry JKay, not meaning to sound like an ass at all, my anger is still at 100% full throttle over not having him on our team and solely at Ed Stefanski, not you buddy.
Dannie, Dave T, guest – any opinions on the Stephen Jackson trade to the Bobcats? Dave T, I remember you being a fan of two of their players, Augustin and Gerald Wallace, and guest you’re from down there, if I’m remembering that correctly, too.
Dannie, great previous piece (Sixers at 10 games).
Zack – It opens up more minutes for Morrow/Maggette for the Warriors and could help the Bobcats since they added another player who can score a little bit. They didn’t really give up anything but they are stuck with his salary now as well.
Zack, You are correct, I am in Charlotte.
I think it’s a good trade. Obviously Jackson had to leave GS- just too many distractions and issues. The Bobcats offense was absolutely pathetic before this trade. Diaw can score effectively at times, but isn’t a true PF. Gerald Wallace (who I actually am not a fan of) is inconsistant. They only put up 59 points in their opener against the Celtics- The lowest in NBA History if I’m not mistaking. Jackson gives them some offense and hopefully Larry Brown can get him to stay focused and play defense. Last year the Bobcats turned it around after they acquired Diaw and Bell from the Suns- mostly because of defense. So I think the Bobcats gave up some defense for some much needed offense.
Sixers wouldnt be a contender or smth like that w/ Ty or w/out him. So Stef made a bet on future, on Jrue’s potential. Why not? That was right choice I believe. Ty is good right now, but may be Jrue will be much better in couple years. In 3 years he will be the same age as Lawson now, it’s a lot of time! I don’t see any reason why he couldnt be as good as Ty and even better. We’ll see, nobody knows!
I don’t pretend to be a Sixers fan, but I think Alex makes a good point. The current version of the Sixers shows that they are a bad team. In 3 years, hopefully they will have turned it around and Jrue will be leading the team and coming into his own at an age that Ty Lawson currently stands at.
No one is disputing Jrue has potential. Where the debate is for me is what’s the ceiling? For them to have drafted him over Ty his ceiling has to be much higher than where Lawson is right now. The reason I say that is because it becomes risk vs. reward. The reward must be great to risk losing out on a proven performer who is ready to play now and will be ready to lead in 3 years at only 25 years old (TY).
You also factor in the fact that guys like this rarely even reach their ceiling of potential so you gotta have some wiggle room below it as well.
For me I just don’t see it. I see Jrue at best being as good is Ty is right now and MAYBE a bit below were Rondo is right now (and that kid is still getting better). And that’s a lot of improvement he would have to make to get to either of those levels.
That’s not good enough for me when I can have that player today not 3+ years down the road.
But guess what Lawson is only 22 right now so it’s not like he can’t get any better either. So 3 years from now is it such a bad thing to have a 25 year old Ty Lawson who started off strong and improved over those 2-3 years? I really don’t get all the fuss about the age difference. We aren’t talking about a guy in his 20s vs. a guy in his 30s.
That’s the funny part when ppl make this argument. They talk like Jrue has all this potential and Ty has none. That simply isn’t the case, especially if you look at what Jameer has turned into after a couple years.
Time will tell and management of Jrue will play a big part as well. I would have much rather had the polished, battle tested 22 year old then the unproven, 19 year old talent.
And the funniest part is Jrue doesn’t even fit with the head coach – Ty does.
Bottom line unless it’s LeBron, Mello, Wade you don’t take a college freshman or sophmore over a proven senior. Ed blew it! And you don’t have the talent to run the Princeton, so that’s two strikes because Jordan is clueless. Oh, let’s not forget about Brand? for all of you that want the Sixers to get in the top 3 for lottery this will be your year! This season is a wash.
Draft night was when I knew this team was doomed for disappointment and futility for the next 3-4 years, minimum. I am a Tar Heels fan so obviously I am a pro Lawson guy. I was actually all geared up to purchase a Lawson jersey because A. I love him and B. the new Sixers jerseys are a solid improvement over the old ones. Instead, they drafted Jrue and 2-3 years from now when he is finally rounding into a solid player this team could look completely different. Sure I like the idea of having Jrue, Thad and Speights as the center pieces of this team but it won’t matter if Ed and Eddie are still running this team into the floor.
Sad part is I think there are questions regarding the future of this team as well. Is it really that bright with Jrue, Thad, Speights and Iguodala on the tail end of his current deal and nearing 30 years old?
I think that would be asking for astronomical improvement from Jrue and Thad and significant improvement defensively from Speights.
Again we are talking about competing for Conference championships here not moving one level up to a 2nd round playoff loser.
The thing that worries me the most is the lack of a strong veteran presence. Who do Thaddeus, Marreese, and Jrue have to learn from and challenge them every day in practice? Who can help Iguodala become a true leader?
The environment that a young, raw player is drafted into can make a serious difference in their development and maturation. We now have 3 years in a row (if I’m not mistaken) where we drafted the youngest player available.
I’m skeptical of their ability to improve without*:
1.) serious minutes on the court where they can go through the fire together and develop a trust in each other and
2.) a strong willed coach that can keep them focused and get them through the tough times
Ty Lawson had both of those in a very professional college program**. He is a winner, something we blatantly lack on this team.
*This is similar to the current stage of the OKC Thunder development.
**I was lucky enough to see a game at the Dean Dome this past year, and Lawson was dominant from start to finish. Hansbrough drew all the attention from announcers and the media, but Lawson was just as important to that team.
There were 4 PG’s drafted from picks 17-21. At that part of the draft (outside the lottery) odds are good that someone picked later will be more of a star then who you get- maybe even someone who slipped the the 2nd round.
If you get a quality starter at #17 who fits with your team then the draft is a success. At this stage with Jrue I’m still optimistic that this will be the case. And if one of the PG’s taken later becomes an even better player I would not judge the pick as a failure.
Its sort of like mid round picks in the NFL. Just because someone in the 6th round ends up in the HOF (like Brady), it does not mean all of the players taken before him who became starters were bad picks. Now if another QB was taken earlier and was a bust then that was a bad pick…
So if jrue is a bust then the pick was bad. But it has more to do with how Jrue does in 3 years at 22 then how Lawson is doing at 22.
I should be a GM. From June 5, 2008:
Jacob:
“The Sixers need a pure point guard. Andre Miller is 32 and would make a valuable trading chip. Ty Lawson is still on the board. Am I missing something here?”
Dannie:
“Jacob, I am a big UNC fan so I watched every game I could and I think Lawson should go back to college especially having missed a bunch of games and playing some at not 100% due to his ankle injury.
I think he needs to work on his shooting much more before he can be a viable option as a starting point guard in the NBA. I can just see teams backing off him to contain the penetration and baiting him to shoot. And at his size and the type of set shot he takes NBA defenders will be able to easily contest that shot as well. He has no ability to shoot off the dribble at all. And I wonder if he can finish at the basket in the NBA.
Its been said he will go back to college if he isn’t projected/guaranteed to be drafted in the top 20, right now he is right on the cusp maybe going to Denver. If he doesn’t have strong individual workouts I think he goes back to school to further improve and prove his offensive game, defensive consistency and ability to log more minutes (only a 25mpg player in two years at UNC).”
http://www.reclinergm.com/petes-mock-draft-30/
But with dwindling attendance what will the Sixers be able to do? The fans don’t show up because the Sixers are a poor run franchise and the team isn’t fun to watch anymore. I think the Phillies winning it all last year has ruined it for some other teams because now fans know what winning is, and they want it and they no longer have the patience for the same crap. You see it with the Eagles and Sixers and to a lesser degree with the Flyers.
Dannie, my biggest issue all along has been Lawson!s durability. If ,through his first 2 years, he proves he can play an 82 game schedule than he makes a believer out of me. Since I saw him in a high school game, he reminded me of a young T.Hardeway, but I wonder why he didn!t go higher, especially than Flynn.I am hoping he becomes Jameer #2 and Holliday becomes D.Williams #2, but I am a glass 1/2 full guy.
TK76 – I don’t agree. But this will probably be a matter of agreeing to disagree I guess.
First off it’s not at all like the NFL. Those draft are completely different.
In the NFL you have a ton of rounds and a bazillion picks there is a much great margin for error since you can pick so many guys in so many positions.
With that said if you pick xyz quarterback ahead of xyz HOF quarterback when you biggest need was quarterback you made a horrible mistake anyway you look at it. It maybe in hindsight but it’s a mistake none the less.
In the NBA you usually get just one shot to get it right which puts so much more emphasis (all) on your first pick.
Also, I think there are multiple ways a pick can be looked on as being bad.
You stated the obvious one. If the guy you picked is a bust it’s a bad pick regardless of who was after him. The other players don’t really matter since you picked a dud.
It’s also a mistake when their are multiple players at the position you are drafting for and guys that go after your pick end up being much more successful.
By your logic if I pick Andre Iguodala and pass on say Paul Pierce or Carmelo Anthony etc etc and I need a starting small forward that isn’t a mistake because I got a decent starter in Iguodala regardless if I passed on better players in the same position. That’s a success?
Please clarify your thinking for me so I fully understand.
In this case I thought Ty was worlds better than Jrue at the time of drafting and fit exactly what we needed on this team. That’s all. I have a different drafting strategy than Stefanski and others. I like proven players, with proven skills who also have room to grow. I don’t like pure raw talents with no proven production at a high level.
And let me repeat…
I like Jrue and if you saw my 10 Games In post I would be starting him. If we had Ty I would be starting him as well.
The only difference: I think Ty would be having a much great impact.
As always time will tell. But I think whether it’s a mistake or not is how the careers end up after 3-5 years. We should have a pretty clear idea who is and will be the better player after that. Hopefully it’s Jrue I just don’t see it happening.
Suede – Deron Williams? Really? That’s what you think Jrue’s ceiling is?
What leads you to believe that?
Just on a side note.
I wish there was some way we could get Byron Scott.
Chris Paul has admitted publicly that Scott made him into the player he is today. Paul wasn’t the best PG in the world coming out of college. Scott would be great to have to try and mold Lou/Jrue into effective point guards. More so Jrue, considering Lou isn’t your prototypical PG. Scott also coached Jason Kidd and the Nets to the Finals a couple years back.
I remember somebody saying their freshman year numbers were very comparable in college and he has the size, seems a little quicker, and his shot shows promise. Basically going by his H.S. pedigree and the fact that at 19 he doesn!t seem to be overmatched when given time.
Dannie, I guess put it this way, I was not disappointed the Sixers got AI instead of drafting Kobe. That year they had the #1 pick and they needed to end up with a superstar. they got one- even if Kobe turned out to be even better.
This year they had the #17 pick. We knew a few promising PG’s would slip to that spot. I hope the one they got turns out to be a quality starter- which would be great for a #17 pick. At #17 there will likely always be a few players taken later who turn out to be better- often at the same position. That’s just the reality given picking at #17 is a bit of a crapshoot (the average #17 pick will turn out to be a marginal NBA player.)
In your case ui realize you were locked in on Lawson, and viewed him as a guy that should have gone top 5. I would have been happy with Lawson, Holiday or Jennings. They all seemed to have at least a shot at being really quality NBA PG’s (although the 19 year olds were much riskier picks.) I’ve been shocked by Jennings early success. Lawson I expected to contribute right away. Jrue we’ll just have to wait and see.
But at #17, even if they swing and miss I would not consider it a colossal error like if you drafted a top 8 pick and they were a bust. I realize in your mind Lawson was a sure thing, and you may be right. I’m certainly not rooting against him.
Doesn’t hurt that Lawson has one of the best floor generals in the game in Billups guiding him along.
I agree. Lawson has found himself in an excellent situation. The Denver offense is a good complement to his skills (basically the same offense he ran so well at UNC.) He is much better served slipping to Denver than had he been drafted by the Clippers of the East (Sixers.)
Here is a good article praising Lawson and how Denver has been a good fit:
sports.yahoo. com/nba/news;_ylt=Aoz1wSUdW9NkqeOf7tKV8YS8vLYF?slug=ap-nuggets-lawson&prov=ap&type=lgns
(remove the space before “com” for the link to work)