I just want to drive right into the off-season with this because it’s a quick hitter. Trade Samuel Dalembert. Everyone wants it, so let’s play a game this off-season and propose some deals to make it happen. And I am not talking about silliness that has no real possibility of happening. We can’t give him away for just a pick, it’s just not financially possible for most teams and that type of deal is typically reserved for moves involving a highly coveted player under contract going to a team with a lot of cap space. Also, we are probably going to have to take back bad contracts as well to make it work.
Some of The Problems:
These are just a few of the problems that will exists in all deals before we get into team-specific conflicts.
- Trade kicker in excess of $3.75M (Thanks Billy)
- Owed ~$25 million over the next two seasons
- Lack of potential
- Piss poor attitude (is he willing to play hard coming off the bench?)
Trading Samuel Dalembert Take 1: Dalembert for Peja Straight Up
Samuel Dalembert for Peja Stojakovic (click image to enlarge)
I have to imagine the Hornets want Peja gone. His remaining contract is dreadful relative to his current production. He can’t defend anyone even a little bit, his durability is that of a geriatric and the offensive production that made his court time tolerable and productive at times has decreased.
This deal would provide more defense and front court depth (if they keep Chandler). In essence the Hornets would have two Tyson Chandlers with the dumber of the two coming off the bench. They get better defensively, provide a stable back-up to Chandler how gets in his own fair share of foul trouble and both guys play the same way offensively so integration shouldn’t be an issue. They also get back some of that trade kicker because Sam’s contract is about $2.6M less than Peja’s over the next two seasons.
For the Sixers they get an equally bad contract that at least nets them a shooter off the bench that can play the SF and SG positions. I think having Peja as a reserve might be the best way to maximize his ability at this stage of his career. Keeping his minutes down should keep him fresh and hopefully injury free making him an impact shooting the ball for us. This would essentially be getting an older, less durable and more expensive version of Kyle Korver for two seasons.
I am not going to rack mybrain too much on these posts because I am reserved to the fact that no one wants Dalembert at his current number so most of these deals I propose would likely get a “hell no” from the fans and most likely ownership of any trading partner. But hey that is the situation we are in right now regarding Sam.
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{ 150 comments… read them below or add one }
Billy King should be banned for life solely on the basis of his Dalembert lock-in arrangement, yet I just read he’s itchin’ to get back in the swim. Might be a nice guy, but he stinks as a GM. Was totally in over his head.
How about trading Dalembert to the Bobcats for Segana Diop and Nazr Mohammed?
Size for size and perhaps we could get some consistency in return.
And now we’re blessed with Stefanski, who loves Lou Williams, Elton Brand and Andre Iguodala. What in the name of Brad Greenberg is goin’ on?
I put this through the trade machine and it worked…
to the Raptors for Jason Kapono and Marcus Banks
Toronto needs a Center and a defensive presense to take the pressure off Bosh. Kapono hasn’t had the impact they thought and is way overpaid, and Banks is the throw in to make it work.
I’ll be back with another in a sec.
also, Raptors might be willing to shake things up after a REALLY REALLY disappointing season.
to Dallas for my man Matt Carroll and Jerry Stackhouse
Dalembert for 6′ 11″ Christian Welp, who’s playing with vigor, if not much lift, in a Bavarian Over-40 league. Sehr gut, ja!?
Or how ’bout Sammy for 6′ 11″ Sharone Wright and 7′ 6″ Shawn Bradley, who are retired but still love the game so, and miss our sweet city desperately?
Rockets would be a good partner as they need a good back-up for Yao, but have no contracts to give back .
straight up for Marcus Camby, because the Clippers are stupid
Dalembert and Williams to the Wolves for Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal?
OK, I’m done now.
Pete, Austin Carr, Adrian Dantley, Bill Laimbeer, Bill Hanzlik - yes. Kelly Tripucka, Orlando Woolridge - maybe. All other ‘Domers’ - no.
Forgot John Paxson – yes.
Also forgot: John Shumate – yes, Troy Murphy – maybe. Leavin’ South Bend.
How about we trade him for a piece of crap, for real I would like an opposing gm to take a crap in a box and send it to us for Sammy. I would like the transaction in the newspaper to read Sammy D was trade a piece of crap. Then we could freeze that coveted crap, throw a jersey on it and our team IQ would immediately improve!
frozen transaction: SD for BM (pending league approval).
Greek……You’d keep the crap, huh? I figured maybe you’d want to take the box to Billy King’s house, light it on fire on his front porch, ring the doorbell, and run, no?
I have one that helps us at 2 positions, though both guys would be overpayed. To Sacramento for Udrih and Nucioni. If Sacramento takes Rubio over Griffin, a possibility, they may like a rotation of Sam,Thompson and Hawes because they are terrible defensively. For us Udrih is a heady p.g. that is slightly better than Miller from 3 and not any better defensively. Nucioni, though overpayed would bring some balls to this team along with a good jumpshot. Dannie, I think Sam has the most value to us by keeping him till the following year and having him as an expiring contract and also allowing his possible replacements to develop this season.
I started thinking of who would want Sammy and came to the conclusion that if we are able to trade it’s going to have to be for a worse contract. So to look for a worse contract I thought who better to look for than old Sixers players who Billy gave ridiculous contracts to. Most of them have been bought out or retired but not Kenny Thomas! He’s due to make around 8 mil for the Kings with a year less than Sammy. The Kings would be better off to wait until the trade deadline to trade the expiring contract for somebody (semi) good but maybe they will deal him now. They don’t have a backup Center to give Hawes a rest once Calvin Booth’s contract expires this off-season. So they’d be getting an expensive backup for 2 seasons and we’d be getting a year less. Although I don’t know that they would throw in Donte Greene to make the deal work or not. If we have a shot at trading him this has got to be near the top of that list. He might be untradeable tho.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=dbmy7p
jjg……Since you brought it up, I’d have to say that Bob McAdoo was the best BM the NBA has ever had. I will list every BM who has ever played in the NBA. See if you agree.
Brian Mahoney (197), Bill Martin (1986-1988), Bob Martin (1994-1995), Brian Martin (1986), Bill Mayfield (1981), Bob McAdoo (1973-1986), Bob McCann (1990-1998), Brendan McCann (1958-1960), Bucky McConnell (1953), Ben McDonald (1986-1989), Bill McGill (1963-1970), Bob McIntyre (1968-1970), Billy McKinney (1979-1986), Bones McKinney (1947-1952), Bob McNeill (1961-1962), Bill Melchionni (1967-1976), Bill Meyer (1968), Bill Miller (1949), Bob Miller (1984), Brad Miller (1999-current), Bill Mlkvy (1953), Bob Mullens (1947).
maybe we’d be better off letting Miller go (going through a dreadful season of Lou at PG) and hoping for a bad enough record (and enough luck with the ping pong balls) to get a stud PG in the draft who can play like Rose did this year with the Bulls. Then next off-season they could trade Sammy’s large expiring contract for a Center. But would the Sixers have any fans left? I’m trying to look at this optimistically but this team is in bad shape.
lol, JJG what the hell is Bm?
As much as it hurts, we should just buy him out just to keep him away from the team next season. Then the year after we could trade his contract.
Can’t wait for the the end of the 2010-11 season when Willie, Reggie, and Sammy come off the books!
Bski, it we got crap for Sammy I might put a dress on it make it my girlfriend becuase I would love it soo much!
How about trading Samuel Dalembert to the LA Clippers for Marcus Camby and Mike Taylor as a throw in? Take a look at the possible impact it could make.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Stefanski has outsmarted other GMs before whether it be in New Jersey or Philadelphia.
GO SIXERS!!
My biggest fear if Sammy is traded is E.S. will announce the next day that Deleo will be back. People will be so elated about Sam being gone that they will be numb to the fact we didn!t get a new coach.
On a serious not cost cutting Denver has been trying to trade us Nene for a long time now. I wonder now that he is healthy and playing the best ball of his life if they would be willing to trade Nene and his 3 year contract for Sammy and his 2 year contract?
Suede that depends on what we can fetch for Sammy.
The Greek, The acronym/abbreviation for the bowel movement that was a principal in your creative and bold trade proposal (still pending). Congratulations, the transaction is presently scrolling across screens nationwide as “breaking sports news alert.” You may win GM of the Year, hands down.
Greek – That would never ever happen.
I am going with the same trade I was hoping for before the deadline.
Minny gets “Slammin” can only play D (sometimes) and not so “Easy” Willie G
We get Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal.
Minny needs some help up front and we need a shooter. I know Miller wasnt as solid this year as normal, but he should bounce back, right?
Damn you guys really took this one and ran with it. Haha. I’ll do one of these posts periodically until something actually happens with Sam. We shouldn’t hold our collective breath though.
bski, Bob McAdoo flushes the rest easily – no contest; a sweet shooter and offensive force; league scoring leader, got a Ring at the end of career as a contributor with Lakers (if I remember correctly). Surprisingly, Billy Melchionni ended up as the ABA’s all-time assists per game leader (8-plus); he fired away from outside at ‘Nova in mid-60s,
was deep sub as a rookie on the greatest 76er team (‘66-’67) ever. Also, a hometown nod to Bobby McNeill of St. Joe’s and Bill Mlkvy, the famed ”(Temple) Owl without a vowel.” But enough of this crap.
GM of the year, awesome thanks JJG!
Ryan F, I don’t think Minny would do that because Cardenal and miller are on the last year of there contracts while Sammy has 2 left.
I googled up sammy d traded for a piece of crap and instead I found this post by me, which is cool because it was the first day that I Spoke up about Stefanski.
20 The Greek 04.10.09 at 12:02 am
UNC would wipe there asses with us, no joke. Without Thad I don’t even think that we would make it out of the second round of the ncaa tournament. As we all know were the worst outside shooting team in the nba. How many college teams have a better perimeter game then us? The answer is tons of them.
Build this team around the front court of Thad and Brand. Everyone else can in the words of Chef Ramsey can “Piss Off”
Lou sucks! And apparently so does Ed stefanski.
I like Troy Murphy a lot. I don’t know if we could work out a deal or not, but he can stretch the floor on offense and is the best defensive rebounder in the league. When EB got injured, teams were killing us on the boards getting second chance opportunities. I want a guy like Troy Murphy who can do the dirty work that our “superstars” *cough cough* are too good to do. Well I shouldn’t say that…. Iguodala and Thaddeus do a relatively nice job on the boards. But still, I like Troy a lot.
The Greek, Your post entertains me, however I do not think that is true. No college team would beat a decent NBA team. It just wouldn’t happen I don’t think. I respect your Chef Ramsey reference and the Lou and ES suck line, but can we really build around a front court of Thad and Brand? I just don’t know if we should blow this thing up yet. Still a lot of ?’s to be answered.
Dannie: if you are serious about your Stojokavich trade, why would New Orleans (who traded Chandler unsuccessfully) want two identical centers with identical limitations and identical games and equally huge identical contracts? (i’ll pay the tax for overusing that word) but u get the point?
think its been determined that its impossible right now. might as well just leave him be. he’ll be a huge expiring contract in a year. as much as the general distaste and hate of the fans is directed towards him, he’s not the real problem right now. if its about players being accountable, a new coach can change that. i think Sam is just a distraction in terms of -problems. he’s the guy everyone loves to hate. if u put him in his place and close your eyes for his 2/3 boneheaded plays, you can live with the results alrite. for a team that lacks defense, is there any rush to trade one of your only good defensive players (albeit inconsistent)?
well don’t stop trying on my account. right now its borderline amusing to see his pathetic trade value.
anyone know how attached indiana is to troy murphy? he makes a lot of money and doesn’t defend anyone. his 45% shot from 3 intrigues me though. he had one of the weirdest statistical seasons ever.
oh i obviously didn’t read #33 from guest before posting that. great minds : )
Sammy and Willie Green to the Lakers for Pau Gasol. This works on ESPN’s Trade Machine. The Sixers get a highly skilled big man who can score the ball, rebound and pass.
The Lakers get Sammy and Willie Green
EXECUTIVE DESIGN FLAW
This is outside of SD trade realm, but Sixers’ offensive plan of action (taking it aggressively to the hole) had limiting returns as non-shooters don’t capitalize on FT opportunities as do shooters. While team in ES-dictated mode ["run with us" (and maybe you won't notice we can't play)] averaged 5.17 more FT attempts per game than opponents, they only made 3.04 more pg due to a mere 74.5% accuracy (as opposed to opponents 78.2%) - – and even if perfect shooting is achieved, it would be important yet not THAT great an advantage due to the 1 pt. value of the shot.
In the most critical area of shooting in today’s game, 3 pt. land, Sixer opponents attempted 6.23 more per game and made 2.95 more pg, resulting in a near-9 pt. Sixer handicap each contest, not to mention the psychological aspect/attrition-cost of the made 3.
Moral of story: Sixers must somehow acquire 2 new long range shooters (who can contribute in other ways too) to give offense a contemporary feel and a real chance at advancing past 1st round. Takin’ the ball to the basket doesn’t pay 1970s dividends, Ed. An Andre Miller-led team can admirably hustle and “craft” its way to points, but not to playoff success. ‘The bomb’ is the rage, and the way to go.
Willie would do a nice job as an off-the-bench Laker; the change of
scenery (and teammates) would do him good. Sam would love the Strand at Venice Beach. Pau would think he returned to Memphis.
For what it’s worth: reported on 610 this morning, Doug Collins is interested in Sixers’ (not-vacant) coaching position.
Yeah Tom Moore reported it this morning on his blog as well.
Guest, when I wrote that it was during the stretch that Thad was hurt and the team was free-falling highlighted by our 67 point stinker in Jersey. I do believe that a lot of college teams could have beaten that sixers team because guys like Sam and Reggie would probably think that they could score 20 against them thus preventing the sixers from winning.
Brand at the 4, Thad at the 3, with Smith and Speights getting time is something that I like. As for anyone else, it wouldn’t break my heart if they were traded.
Iggy for Joe Johnson, man I party like a rock star if that happened.
As far as the Sam trades, BUY HIM OUT OR JUST SIT HIS DUMB ASS
It’s fun as hell googling Sammy and seeing what comes up, here is a goldend nugget from Dannie from 5/20/09 (please don’t kill me Dannie!}
Should Dalembert Be on the Roster Next Season?
Without question. I don’t know what Sixers fans think, but you can’t easily replace a top 10 rebounder and top 5 shot blocker in the NBA and that is exactly what we get from Dalembert. Oh, not to mention he is ONLY 26-years-old! Feel free to disagree, but I stand firm on this point.
and then in response to my idea of trading Dummy Bear for a end rounder ala Marcus Camby on 1/2/09
Also this whole talk about trading Sam for a 2nd round pick is nonsense. Not only because a starting center in the top 15 in rebounding, blocks and double doubles nearly every season and is still only 27 is worth more than a 2nd round pick, but by saying that you limit the trade partners to only teams vastly under the cap or have a large trade exception in order to take on his salary.
Put personal bias aside it REALLY try to think about what is best for the Sixers. Giving Sam away for nothing is clearly not.
……………………………………
Dannie, I love your blog bro. 95% of my postings are done on your blog so please don’t freak on me! I just love the fact that you have soured on this guy in a huge way!
Sam to Charlotte for Raja Bell, Vlad Radmanovic, and their 2nd round pick? It would give Larry Brown his defensive C, allow Okafor to move to his natural position of PF, get Vlad off of their roster, with losing Bell as the only semi-painful thing in the deal for them.
Benefits to the Sixers: Sam would be gone, we would have two new guys who can shoot, Bell would bring toughness that this team is lacking, and it would give us a 2nd round pick to grab a guy like Jerel McNeal (who I think will surprise in the NBA).
“Collins is regarded as a more demanding coach” than Dileo … both Glinda, the Good Witch of the North and the inimitable Doug Moe (Sixers version) might be more demanding coaches than Tony.
Why would a team want Samuel Dalembert? He has shown no sign of developing a go-to offensive move in seven seasons, continues to commit over-the-back and moving screen violations at an alarming rate and tends to do goofy things with the game on the line (like running out to the 3-point line with the Sixers up by two in Game 3 vs. Orlando, leaving Willie Green to bear hug Dwight Howard). It’d be like the Shawn Bradley-for-DC trade — getting somebody back that another team doesn’t want. The trade kicker adds insult to injury.
No team would want him, we’re stuck and thats just a fact.
Here are pics of Sammy kissing Hedo
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2009/04/photo-spectacular-samuel-dalembert-kisses-hedo-turkoglu.html#more
Maybe either the Haitian bobsled team or the Royal Canadian Mounties have a position to fill.
Shawn Bradley for DC wasn’t a terrible trade. He did help us get to the playoffs. Too bad the guy was such an a-hole.
I wonder if the Rockets would be interested in a McGrady for Dalembert trade?
Someone would be interested in Sam for the right price. Any team that is interested in Thabeet should be interested in Sam. Thabeet is pretty much Sam’s clone.
I wonder if John Thompson Sr. could’ve made Sam into a good frontline ballplayer.
Dalembert’s $10.5 million 2008-09 salary is only half of McGrady’s. Plus, McGrady is going into the final year of his contract (Dalembert has two years remaining). Doesn’t make sense from Houston’s side.
I figured as much. I’m just really reaching Tom Moore for any possible way to get rid of him.
I heard on 950 ESPN that Avery Johnson will stop by to talk 12:45 ish today. Maybe it could be about a coaching position.
Doug Collins, hmm, I love him as an analyst without an ego. Can he rebound from his time with the Wizards? But that is certainly an out of the box choice Stefanski would make.
I hear you, Dan. You know Stefanski would like to deal him. Here’s what Stefanski said Friday: “Right now, he’s a member of the 76ers. We hope he gets better over the summer and does the things we ask of him.”
Iguodala on Dalembert: “I think the biggest thing with Sam is letting him be him, but at the same time keeping him on the same page as everyone else. He’s kind of a free spirit and he can get all over the place. That’s not a bad thing – it’s just his nature. But (you have to) make sure when he comes in here, his focus is where it needs to be for that hour or two at practice and keep him ready for games.”
Iguodala belongs in Phoenix or elsewhere, not Philly. Obviously has some talents. Obviously doesn’t integrate them all that well. Because he’s being paid like a #1, it doesn’t preclude GM from correcting a miscalculation if the right match is found. Either Iguodala or Young have to be moved this summer for Sixers to make gains.
Iguodala has sure become chatty. I hope it means he really hates losing and decided to join Thad working on his range with Mark Price.
It was Mark Price right?
He thinks he’s a lot better than he actually is. His ego certainly trumps his game. From what I observe, is being given a wide berth by the organization much too soon. He should find his court equilibrium and true leadership behaviors before he plays the part. Premature big shot.
Thanks for the Iggy quotes Tom! It’s amazing that that dipstick has such a hard time paying attention. The dude is such a thief.
Staring in Oceans 14 Samuel Dalembeart, the theme will be how he robbed the Sixers of over 60 million$
Co- starring Billy King and some members of the Detroit Pistons who allowed Dumbo to get his numbers during that series before he got PAYED.
jjg……Here is an article from RealGM by Derrick Bodner, posted on 03/12/09, and titled “Can Iguodala and Young Share the Wings?”.
I remembered reading it a while back, just couldn’t remember where. Sorry if someone already posted a link to this article and we’ve talked about it here but I missed the whole thing. Anyway, I found it and it’s worth a read. I agree with the reasoning.
Dannie, how would a Sam for Peja trade affect the Sixers? On the court I think it would be a wash. Sam!s rebounding and shot blocking would be missed whereas Peja!s shooting would be a plus but like Korver, how many minutes can he play without hurting you defensive. Off the court is my main issue with Sam, whether it be practice or time put in to improve; going by what I read and here, not first hand knowledge. Peja is a professional and probably would help the overall attitude of the team and I am assuming he wouldn!t dog it if he got limited minutes.
Suede, I don’t see NO. Not with their Sammy version there. Unless they trade Chandler. Possibly for Sammy. Chandler must have his own baggage. I’m sure the Sixers would rather have his then Sammy’s. Peja for 18-24 minutes a game? Just enough time to spell Sammy & Thad at the 2/3.
Maybe, we should focus on the coaches. What coach would put up with Sammy for those 2 remaining years on his contract? Need some strong veterans surrounding him.
S.F.W., Chandler has health issues,missing time in playoffs; one thing about Sammy, he doesn!t miss games, physically anyway. I am not sure about D.Collins, would rather go 1]A.Johnson 2]T.Thibedoux 3]J.Van Gundy, though that would mean “Ugly Ball”.
Thinking about Sam trades that could actually happen…
Dan’s Sam to Charlotte for Raja Bell, Vlad Radmanovic sounds great. Unlikely given Bell is an expiring next year.
Another break even trade that could happen: Sam for Dampier.
Identical contracts. Would work if both teams want a change of scenery trade.
TK76, I like the Charlotte trade but one thing Dan forgot, they traded for Diop last year.
tk76, if we did a positive and negative column on Sammy which one would be longer?
I’d be fine keeping Sam as a player for another year until he is an expiring contract- even with his bonehead mistakes on the floor… but it sounds like he is becoming too much of a distraction of the floor.
I keep thinking back to last year and wonder if he and Brand can be like Theo and Ty were but than I think of the off court issues and wonder what happens if we get a coach that demands him to do the right things, will he give his all or quit on him. Winning cures all ills, right. Maybe we need a good start and than he just rolls with it.
The starting lineup of Sam/Brand/Thad/Andre/Andre was very successful to start the season. It was the 2nd team that killed them (at least when you look at +/-.)
A backcourt of Miller and Iggy is unwatchable, and also the worst shooting backcourt in the NBA hands down. We’re stewed buttwad, Chet’s words were never clearer.
Just referencing a movie, not calling anyone a buttwad! I would love for someone to go and get an interview with Sammy and see what he has to say. The NY media, as rotten scum as they are would have a field day with Sammy if he played there.
That’s why they will/should replace Miller w/ a PG who can shoot with range and defend- even if he is a lesser offensive player overall.
The bigger point is that Young/Iguodala at SF/SG should be given another shot next year.
I’d only give Iguodala another shot at SG if he’s actually committed to playing the position. He showed at the beginning of this year that he was not ready to be a shooting guard, and wanted to continue his game as a “guard-forward”. He needs to do some SERIOUS work on his shot if he is going to be our 2.
Iguodala’s a 3. Thad’s a 3. Not gonna work, as is. Sixers need to bite the bullet and pick 1, trade the other in order to build a stronger team. Gotta give up value to get value in return.
Thanks for article, bski.
Scattered thoughts people have discussed about:
–There are two, and only two viable teams in the entire NBA that could possibly have ANY interest in Sammy D the way they are constructed now: Minnesota, Charlotte, and possibly Oklahoma City of they strike out in this draft with a big (doubtful, since they’d probably go for Jordan Hill or Thabeet if they miss out on Blake Griffin).
–Do we want Doug Collins coaching the Sixers? Intriguing option…very intriguing option…but IMO, no. By all accounts his personality can be TOO fiery at times in the lockeroom, and he has peeved off more than a few players with his overbearing, domineering personality. Given the fragile state of this team…I don’t think he’s what we need. People are often fooled by his lackadaisical manner in the announcing boothe, and forget the guy has a huge temper on the sideline and has taken it out on players. He can also be extremely impatient with youngsters and mistakes and will over-rely on veterans. Not exactly what we need at the moment, although clearly Ratliff would love that. While his BBall IQ and knowledge of the game are through the roof…just doesn’t fit quite right to me. I like him 3rd right behind Avery and EJ though.
–Can Iguodala and Thad coexist at the wing spots? YES. They’ve proven it. Thad has proven he is dedicated to improving his shot and overall game…I very, very much feel confident we have a Danny Granger type of talent on our hands (6′8 athlete who played PF in college that can successfully make the transition as a wing player in the NBA, have a versatile game, hit 3’s, and still retain his post up game). You put Thad’s post scoring, continually improved shooting and more polished game next to Iguodala’s slashing, assists and drawing attention…this is a combo that can work.
As long as Thad gets his 3 point shooting up in the 35-37% range next year (something I see as VERY realistic), all we really need, as others have said, is a PG to draft (Lawson, Flynn, Mayner, Calathes, S Curry…all can shoot pretty well to amazing) that can stroke it from behind the arc, giving us that PG and Thad as two legit options in the future starting lineup capable of hitting a 3 pointer.
–I’m very VERY dissapointed Sammy D did not have the type of series he had against Detroit back in 04-05 under Obie, where in 5 games he earned his monster contract. If he had shown up AT ALL this series, it would have increased his trade stock exponentially (aka: trade talks with Twolves involving Sammy for a Mike Miller, or a Foye and vet big, would be realistic) and we could be talking about actually landing a player for him. Instead, we are resorting to talking about moving him just to move him, something obviously less than ideal.
I still do not think we should be moving him unless we get a capable veteran that can play the middle in return. I do NOT want Jason Smith as our starting center next year, nor Ratliff (although love him as a backup), nor Speights. Any move with Sammy made also can’t even be thought about until Stefanski decides whether he wants a PG or a backup SG/SF that can shoot in the draft.
Dan……Regarding Iguodala at the 2 and our options for next year, check out the article I talked about in #61 and see if it makes sense to you.
I think Atlanta is a good example of a team with athletes that are assisted by a p.g. that can hit the three. J.Johnson [37% for career], M.Williams [3o% for career] and J.Smith [25% for career] work together because Bibby can spot up at the key and bury it. I am confident Thad can become a 36% at least shooter from three and if Jason gets 15 minutes at the 5 hopefully he can assist [M.Bonner?]. We have to get a p.g. that can be a threat from deep and, as S.Antonio, find a corner three shooting 2 guard and I think we will be fine.
Dave T, “The fragile state” that you acknowledge must be eliminated. You don’t do that with reticent reason (Dileo) or undermanning on shooters & blowing smoke (Stefanski). This collection of players needs some truth-telling (especially in the defensive dept.) and some fire from a head coach & a fresh staff but also, importantly, game-time confidence (which springs from a dues-paid core) and deft adjustments. Collins (8 years, 3 teams, no Rings) would be an improvement; probably wouldn’t get ‘em to the top as passing of years have turned him from whizzing cager to wary codger (is he comfortable with 2009 player mindset?). Great player (with bad feet), good coach. I too would prefer Avery Johnson over him.
Dave T…….I don’t want to see Smith or Speights as our starting center either.
I know a few on here are really high on Smith, but I don’t see it. Granted, it was only his rookie year, but Smith did not show himself to be a good defender or rebounder. He also wasn’t particularly tough, getting pushed around for a 7-footer and picking up fouls. I’d like to think that he will improve, but I don’t know that yet. Also, coming off his knee injury, I don’t expect him to be at 100%. Don’t “they” say that a guy usually doesn’t get there until the second year after an injury like that? That’s way too much uncertainty for me to advocate having him as our starting center.
Speights has shown a lot of the same things this past season, again acknowledging it was only his rookie campaign, as Smith.
One of these guys, maybe both, could possibly develop into a starting center at some point, but neither one is there yet, IMO. I’m good with both of them getting backup minutes at the 4 & 5, depending on matchups.
****This is another reason why I really think we need Iguodala to play SG. I’m figuring that both Smith and Speights will be getting backup minutes at the 4, which will eat into Thad’s minutes there. (Besides, I would really rather not have Thad at the 4 all that much anyway.) Since I want Thad on the floor, his minutes will come at the 3, which means Iguodala is at the 2.*******
Anyway, since I really think we’re asking for trouble if we make either Speights or Smith our starting center, I agree with you about Sam. As maddening as he is, we can’t simply dump him, as we do not currently have anyone else who gives us what he does (albeit on an inconsistent basis.) I’d like to see Sam gone, but until we have a viable replacement he’s got to stay.
Bski, the article does make sense to me. But me fear is that Thad Young is not a spot up shooter. I doubt he’ll ever be a true dead-eye sniper, rather just a good shooter. Unless we get a point guard that is DEADLY from outside, I just don’t see how Iguodala and Young can co-exist at the 1 and 2. Keep in mind, that Iguodala’s numbers also improved once Brand went down and Iggy became the focal point of the offense again. Will him and Thad be able to consistenly drain the 3 on kick outs from Brand?
Regarding who the starting center would be if we moved Dalembert, the answer is simple. It has to be Brand, with Speights at the power. Even if we DON’T move Dalembert, that should be our PF/C starting combo. You win games by playing your most talented players, and right now Sam is 3rd maybe 4th in line.
I think everyone needs to have a reality check as well. This is a team that shouldn’t have made the playoffs the past two years. We got lucky that the Eastern Conference is such dreck, outside of the top teams, and we were able to make it. We were never supposed to contend for one of the top 3 spots this year, but were a year or two out at the beginning of the season. With the progression of Young, Speights, and if we keep him, Iggy, then we’re still right on track.
Generally, NBA is dreck. Is in serious need of franchise contraction, dispersal draft. Economy isn’t the only reason for empty seats in the McMansion-arenas. Something has been lost – sound players. Crank up the noise!
I wouldn’t count on Jason Smith to do too much in 2009-10. Guys typically need a full season back after a torn ACL to start playing like they did before the injury.
I’m going to have to disagree with you jjg. If college basketball is good, then what happens to the NBA when the best of the best from college get there? I’d more so attribute it to the league really not enforcing the rules of the game, a “me first, I’m going to get my money” attitude, and players being so goood with the same standards we had 20 years ago. Raise the rim, make the court bigger, etc and we may have better NBA. Call travel calls, palming, etc ON EVERYONE and not just the minor players and we may have a better NBA.
And Jason wasn’t Jack Sikma to begin with. Or even Mike Gminski. Or Tom McMillen.
-First, any team would gladly take Sam if we take back lousy players with longer contracts. He can be traded, its just whether it is worth it. There are a ton of bad contracts out there.
—
You guys are touching on some good issues that need to shape how we see next year.
The team is not in a position to make a run next year. They may take a step back or at best compete for a 4 seed next year. They need to make moves with a 2-3 year mindset (hopefully Brand at 32-3 can play at a high level.)
1. That effects what coach you can attract. “guys with rings” are not going to take this job. There is no superstar ready to contend nor is their capspace or roster flexibility. So the new coach will be a Builder not a Closer. Judge coaches accordingly.
2. Don’t focus on Iguodala/Young at 2/3 or Speights at C in terms of next year. If we think they can develop the needed shooting, rebounding, smarts to man the position in 2-3 years we should be willing to let them grow next year.
-I’m w/Derek in that Iguodala at SG works next to the right SF and PG. Thad looks like he will be the right SF, but they need to get a PG who can shoot with range. Those guys exist, especially if Iguodala takes some of the creating burden off them.
-Speights might develop to be a decent complement next to Brand. Certainly not ready to do great things at C next year- but maybe in 2 seasons? And he needs to be paired with another big guy like Brand, not and undersized PF like Young.
So I think a line-up of :
PG(shooter)/Iguodala/Thad/Brand/Speights has a lot of promise in 2-3 years. Especially since in 2 years Sam/Evans/Green come off the books, letting you add to the roster upgrades. You just have to deal with players not being quite ready for prime time next year.
Dan, Easy, early money; poor and entitled dispositions; a lack of respect for the game and its real history; league standards (inconsistent rule enforcement – or a total waiver - as you mentioned) – - many reasons for the dilution of the league. I contend that Reggie Evans is an entertainer, but he doesn’t play basketball as it was intended.
Don’t fully agree with you that college basketball is of high quality; even on that level there’s been a decrease in the number of complete and team-oriented players, and a celebrating (or a Vitale-ing) of the “Me” & the sizzle. One example, Tyreke Evans, a college freshman who will play in the NBA next year: a long-hyped unfinished natural who will get a nice contract, but will underachieve his full potential due to an abbreviated apprenticeship and inattention to finer playing detail. Just one case in point.
JJG, the decrease in the number of complete and team-oriented players can be linked directly to the NBA rule of no longer allowing 18 years to be draft. However, you’ll notice that the majority of those players (like Tyreke who you mentioned below, Beasley, OJ Mayo, etc) are going to schools that truly are not contenders to win it all the year they are there and allow them to be “the man” or else they’re now making the jump directly to Europe, ala Brandon Jennings and Jeremy Tyler.
However, to say that the upper tier of college basketball played is not high quality is a bit of a reach in my opinion. Take a look at this past year’s Final Four teams: Villanova, Michigan State, UNC, and UConn. All four were very complete TEAMS. Villanova was the shining example of how a true team, that might not be as “talented” as others, can go far. This year’s UNC squad was also about as complete of a basketball team that anyone could ask for.
NC was strong (due to an astute & rallying coach, a dominant PG, a white-hot shooter, a will-not-be-denied PF and complements), and played hard – a very fine squad. The others, played hard, not special.
No doubt there’s more hustle and energy in the college gyms. My statement is on fundamentally-declining play and excessive pastry – a generalization based on experience and observation. But it’s only one opinion. Many, as yourself, think college ball is great. Did ’Nova schedule Stockton State & Monmouth this Dec., or Neumann & Goldey-Beacom? … that month’s always a tough slog.
SF shoot – dribble – pass - rebound – defend [basketball is simple]
Iguodala: c- b- b+ b b = B- (B potential)
Young : b c- d c- c- = C (B+ potential)
JJG - You forgot the all important basketball IQ. To simplify/clarify that somewhat nebulous term as the ability to execute (effectively) those skills you presented above at the right time, the right way.
If you want a more visual and detailed depiction of basketball IQ check this out and read some good insight by Charley Rosen.
jjg, I can’t see how Iguodala is a B- SF. Maybe you are comparing him against your view of SF’s in NBA history?
Because in the league right now there is only 1 SF (Lebron) who is clearly better than Iguodala. There are another 6 players who are right around his overall level (you can argue which of those guys is best, but each has different skills they bring to the table.)
A B- player does not go 18+/5+/5+/.46%/top 8 steals while being a solid defender on a .500 team where he is one of the 2 main players.
B- Players are are either marginal NBA starters or solid bench players (like a KK or a Michael Pietrus.)
You could say he is a B- if all you measure is half court offense- but defense and creating, running and finishing on the break is a big part of todays NBA game. By that measure Bill Russell would be a B- player because he was not a dominant offensive player in the half court (not equating what Iguodala does with Russell, just taking a point to the extreme.)
Dannie, You’re right, b-ball IQ - a vital “difference-maker.” Scott Skiles & Scott Brooks don’t play & coach in the league without it. Nice flow (through the mind) chart! I like Rosen and his stories; he & Peter Vescey of NY Post are fun NBA reads; his IQ lists are quite interesting. Thanks.
tk76, Just an averaging of grades of basic skills that he shows throughout the ”semester.” Had he done his summer reading (“Refining Rim Shots And Other Bothers”) he probably would’ve achieved a B. An all-star berth is within the realm of his potential if he keeps his nose to the grindstone. He’s not to that level at this point. The danger is that he’ll get frustrated and regress.
B- players are good ones, but mottled with both detracting physical habits and mental distortions or distractions – unscrubbed talents, so to speak.
jjg, Maybe compared to you I am grading on the curve. I agree he has areas he needs to improve- even if he never becomes a great shooter.
To his credit, this years he did dramatically improve his ability to get and finish inside shots with the half court offense. he has really added a left hand.
Also his ratio of inside shots vs settling for jumpers has gotten better this year. 36% of his shots this year were inside shots, which is much better than only 28% last year. For comparison sake, here is the the shot selection numbers for some other other players:
% of total shots taken “inside” per 82games.com
Kobe: 21%
Pierce: 27%
Wade: 34%
Iguodala: 36% (in 2007 was 28%)
Lebron: 36%
The message being that Iguodala is not settling for jumpers, and is getting inside (where is finishing % is among the tops in the NBA, even exluding dunks.)
Granted, I’m not sure if these states are effected by fast break points (site does not say, just listed as “shot selection”), but either way, an improved area of Iguodalas’ game.
BTW Inside shot % with and without including dunks:
Kobe: .599/.655
Pierce: .528/.547
Wade: .590/.659
Iguodala: .565/.721 (in 2007 was .493/.690)
Lebron: .648/.718
You can see Iguodala’s inside finsihing % is tops amongst these stars. Part of this is that he finishes inside with dunks at a higher percentag of the time than the other players. Either way, very good stuff by Iguodala.
Good stuff, tk76. I don’t think he holds a candle to the other 4 though. Would you take him over any?
I don’t believe in grading (or paying) on a curve. The NBA wouldn’t exist without gifted athletes, but it surely isn’t in the business of self-esteem building. Harder evaluation (and accountability) by front offices, coaches and fans would engender a better product in my opinion. NBA franchises should tell players and their agents to suck eggs or form their own league. Might take a short term hit but would be better off in the long run. Things have gotten out of hand.
No, Iguodala is not in their league (although neither is Pierce IMO.)
Just used those players to show where Iguodala is at what he does best at on offense- and how he has added to his game. He also returned to form a bit with his defense- but regressed with FT and jump shooting.
Wade, Kobe and Lebron are top 10 players, and warrant max deals (19M after next year.) Iguodala gets payed 30% less, and is a second level star. I think on the right team he can be one of a group a 3 stars that makes a champion. Sort of like KG/PP/Allen. Pair him with the right other 2 players and he could be part of a winner.
I think he would be great replacing Pierce on thecurrent Celtics or Sean Elliot on those old Spurs team. He needs to be with a great shooter and an elite big man to be effective. On that type of team he can focus on defense, spurring the break (rebound or defense to trigger the break, and then push it coast to coast) and creating for others.
TK76 – Since you brought it up I will ask the group this question because I think it’s very important to consider:
If you swap out Paul Pierce for Andre Iguodala does Boston win the championship last year in your opinion?
Now this is knowing what you already know about how their run played out of course.
You could also go as far as to ask do they get out of the first round this year if you swap out Pierce for Iguodala?
Pierce is 31. I’d say this year’s Iguodala (lets say ge 25-31) would have been good enough to win it all next to a healthy Rondo/Allen/KG/Perkins. Iguodala fits well on that team, as would a lot of SF’s (Howard, Butler, Granger could all be champions with that squad.) They have enough shooting with Ray Allen and House (and posey last year.)
Iguodala would help them bring their defense and running game to an even higher level. He would get a ton of chances to lead th break, and have great options to either finish or kick to an open 3. His strength and defensive ability would really help when they go against Kobe or Lebron (to at least slow them down.) He would be a household name on that team.
As for pt 2, do they beat Chicago? It was really Ray Allen who provided the offensive firepower that series. Pierce is a much better scorer in the half court, but maybe Iguodala could have helped their transition game. i also wonder if Iguodala could have covered Rose some to slow him down, allowing Rondo to shadow Gordon and deny him the ball.
Overall, I don’t know if they would be as good, better or worse with Iguodala and no KG. it would certainly expose Rondo’s lack of a jumper, but as i said, it could open up a running game that Pierce does not bring- leading to even more open looks for Allen. Tough call- certainly not clear cut.
TK76: You’re kidding right? Please tell me that was a joke in saying Iguodala would be able to fill right in for P Pierce on Boston? Wow.
Pierce has consistently proven in the past decade that he is right there in that 2nd tier of “best players in the NBA”, below only the mega superstars. You will have your top 10’s (late 90s/00’s: Kobe, Duncan, KG, Kidd, Glove, T-Mac, Dirk, C-Webb…now LeBron, D-Wade, Kobe, C Paul, Deron, Dwight, Yao, healthy Gil Arenas, etc)…and then there is always a second tier of GREAT, AMAZING players right underneathe them.
Paul Pierce has been a member of the “elite 2nd tier” for years…right now I’d put Pierce, Brandon Roy, Billups there…maybe Melo as well. Before it used to be Marion, J’Oneal, Vince Carter (the good years)…Iverson I’ve always been torn whether he belongs in the top 10 or that “elite 2nd tier”.
But Andre Iguodala is NO WHERE NEAR THAT LEVEL. I’ve always been an Iggy defender…plays good defense, is a very good passer, has nice handle, and in the past month has shown himself to finally be capable of being a quasi-true leader. But he is not a reliable 20-24 ppg scorer on a legitimate team. He’s more, when surrounded with actual talent, a 17-19 ppg guy that will get you the 5 asts and rbs. Made great strides the last two years, but to put him next to Truth? Cmon. Paul Pierce is a legit franchise player or legit 1B banana next to a 1a. Iguodala I barely consider a quality 2nd banana.
DaveT- its not that I am over-valuing Iguodala as you are over-valuing Pierce.
The question was not who is the better player. I agree Pierce is better, but not by a huge margin. the question is how Iguodala would do in Pierces place… and I think that team would be a great fit to maximize Iguodala’s talents and mask his weaknesses.
Poerce is a very good player, but got his ring becasue they brought in KG and Ray Allen. He was one of three stars (and a second level one), and Iguodala is one of one.
Pierce is not a “not a reliable 20-24 ppg scorer on a legitimate team.” He is a 20/5/4 guy on a great team, and 21-26/6/4 on a 24-45 win teams that varied from terrieble to average depending on whether he had any onther good players on his team.
Pierce is a smarter team player and smarter defender, but at 31 he is not the same offensive force he was at 22-28. He is a much better player in the half court, but can’t trigger things on the defense end or put pressure on other teams on the break like Iguodala.
DaveT- say their is a healthy KG, Allen, Rondo, Perkins House/Posey. Add in Iguodala and how many do they win?
As I said before, a lot of SF’s- Howard, Butler, Granger- could all be champions with that squad.
pls excuse typo
What about Byron Scott if the Hornets said he was, “relieved of his duties”? Stefanski certainly knows Scott and the guy played for Pat Riley, a man who is all about details and commitment on both ends of the floor. The Hornets are on the verge of a possible firesale. Just something to consider if Byron was released.
Forget that I said that, the Hornets are looking to keep Byron Scott!
Guys, the question I would like to pose is could Iggy have taken Pippen!s place on those Bulls teams could M. Jordan have all those rings. Iggy seems more like Pippen than any other player to me. Pierce is asked to score on nights Allen is off and I don!t know if Iggy can go off for 30 on those occasions.
Boston doesn’t win a ring with Iggy replacing Pierce in my opinion.
MJ would still have got some rings because he is MJ but I am not confident at all he wins 6 if you replace Pippen with Iguodala. Furthermore I don’t think that Bulls team even gets to a controversial game 7 against the Knicks in 1994 the year MJ didn’t play and Pippen was the main guy if it was Iguodala either. I personally hold a high regard for Pippen and don’t think Iguodala is anywhere near that good.
Where I think the problems arise would be with Iguodala’s interaction and ability to handle MJ’s style. I don’t think mentally he is capable and Jordan would never accept that. MJ broke guys down and built them up so he could trust them when the game was on the line. He did the same thing with Kwame Brown when he drafted and played with him and Brown couldn’t handle it. It takes a certain type of player to handle playing with MJ because his basketball personality was different than most. I mean when you are punching teammates in the face in practice that says enough. Dude was on another level of competitiveness that you’d be hard pressed to find anywhere else. His style was abrasive but accepted because of his excellence.
Which is why I don’t really look at the Bulls question that much. Having a MJ caliber player for Iggy to play along side is not happening. But it is possible for the Sixers to position themselves like Boston with Iggy being in the Pierce role. If we don’t believe that Celtics team could win by replacing Iguodala I think that tells you he isn’t the guy we should be building around.
Iguodala is a shadow of what Pippen was.
But the 72-10 team could have won with Thunder Bob Thornton at small forward with that roster. Pippen “only” was a 19/6/6 player for that team, because they were so loaded. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1996.html
MJ probably could not have won nearly as many rings with Iguodala in his prime (25-31, he is 25 now) than Pippen. Many of those finals series were close. But MJ and the supporting cast was great enough that they would have gotten some rings swapping in Iguodala for Pippen.
That said, Pippen was leagues better than Iguodala (and Pierce.) Look at Pippens #’s ( http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html ). One year without MJ he led the Bulls to 55 wins averaging 22/8.7/5.6/2.9 stl/.49%. That was one of the better all around seasons in recent NBA history.
Dannie, sounds like we are on the same page about MJ/Pippen. But maybe I am not giving enough credit to Pierce. It is conceivable that my hatred for Boston clouds my objectivity.
As for Iguodala, you can’t build around him as the centerpiece. But he can be one of several stars fitting the Detroit model- which is really hard to pull of in this star driven league.
You’re talking 3 tiers of players:
1) Jordan
2) Pippen/Pierce
3) Iguodala
A 60s corollary (at SG):
1) Robertson/West
2) Greer/Sam Jones
3) Richie Guerin/Don Ohl
AI2 is far from a centerpiece.
If we need the star to win, aren!t we in a pretty good situation if we add a rotation guy in this draft. In 2 years we get the star and our young guys are ready to blossom. Shouldn!t that be managements mindset, clear 20 mill. in 2011 and go after Paul or whoever may be available?
I think Boston wins a ring last season with Iggy replacing Pierce. Of Course it would have been on the backs of Allen and Garnett, Allen would have score 4-6 more points without Pierce. Iggy would be a 15 pt scorer for the Celtics.
Correction: Iguodala doesn’t belong on a list with any of the above. Momentary brain cramp. I apologize to the players and their families.
The best Iggy comparison to an old-timer is ”Pogo” or “Jumpin’ “ Joe Caldwell of Watts LA, Arizona State, ‘64 Olympics, Pistons, Hawks, Carolina Cougars (ABA; the Curt Flood of basketball; Billy Cunningham’s then-teammate): 6′5, sculpted, could run & jump, defended well, scorer, not a great shooter. Competitor, a cog; helped you win. Not sure Iggy’s his equal yet, but he’s headin’ there.
29 teams passed on Sam after his trade request, it’s been reported. For the life of me I can’t figure out why. He looks like 10 million bucks in a uniform and, boy, is he a good goaltender when motivated.
The Sixers should go after Eddie House as your shooter off the bench this summer! Get a load of House in Game 2 of the Magic-Celtics series. WOW!
Don’t know why I’m even discussing a player I never saw and then compare him across eras…
but http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caldwjo01.html
At age 24-5 Calwell was a 14/5/1 asst player. Does not sound like Iguodala.
Now at age 28, in his last NBA season he was good for 21/5/3.5 and .505%. Sounds more like Iguodala, but he was still only tied for 5th on his team for assists.
Players often improve as they enter their prime. Iguodala just turned 25. Maybe in a few years he will exceed your expectation.
Those other 3rd tier guys you mentioned looked like they put up some good numbers, but on weak teams.
I see Iguodala on about the level of Sean Elliot. Maybe not the same shooter, but as good or better overall. Elliot was a good 2nd or 3rd cog on some very good Spurs teams.
tk76, Cross-era stats don’t tell the story; Google him and read beyond numbers – - or trust me, Iguodala’s not his equal yet. Caldwell played more without the ball whereas Iguodala needs it in his hands for his game to be effective. Less craziness to performance too.
http://joecaldwell.us/joeStory.html (contempororaries quotes at end provide insight)
JJG:
I might sound odd for saying this, given my above rant about PPierce in post #100 and the huge gap between him and Iguodala…but I would say the same about Pippen vs. Pierce.
You had Pippen/Pierce equal as a #2 banana. While I fully agree that Pierce is an ideal #2 option on offense in the NBA…THE guy you’d want playing off the mega star in today’s NBA…Pippen, IMO, is in another stratosphere than PPierce is.
People have always been divided on Scottie’s game…everyone agrees he’s a great all time player, but some people think part of his success is because of MJ, others believe much of MJ’s success is from playing with the perfect compliment in Pippen. I’m in the latter camp, and feel that Pippen will always be the single most underrated player in the 90’s decade.
Not only did he have a PG like ability to score zero points and still not just effect, but WIN a game for his team and be dominant without needing to score…not only could he lockdown literally anyone in the NBA…not only was his IQ off the charts and passing a thing of beauty…and not only was his 1-2 lone seasons without MJ on Chicago extremely good…to me we can really see Pip’s qualities come out in his Portland years.
People tend to forget one of the main reasons the Blazers stayed very relevant and still a legit contender, and then legit 2nd round playoff team after their fantastic 98-00 years, is largely because they plugged in an aging and over the hill Pippen into the starting lineup to shake things up. That “over the hill” Pippen proved to rejuvenize the team, still provided lockdown D, leadership, scoring, and a great all around game, in essence giving them a true selfless PG on the floor (as Damon Stoudamire never quite provided that) and propelled that team to far more wins then they would have had otherwise.
I’ve got a fever, and the only prescription is more Scottie Pippen! Love the guy as a player, can’t say enough about him. Iguodala should absolutely spend the next three summers watching nothing but video of Scottie and trying to emulate his game. Iggy is one of the few players in the league with the ability to be in that mold…unfortunately he’s sorely lacking in leadership qualities, jumpshooting, consistency, trying hard on defense for 40 minutes, moving without the ball and pick setting.
I loved Pippen as a player but my Iggy/Pippen comparison was made for one reason, I don!t think either player could be the man on a championship team. Similar 3pt.% numbers and ft.% numbers along with the fact the opposing defenses had M.J. and multiple shooters to worry about along with a stud p.f. most years just add to that feeling for me. D.T., What you said last is I believe what Scotty was, the glue to a team. Iggy does every thing well but maybe not as well as Scotty but their roles on a good to great team would be similar ,in my opinion.
I agree that Iguodala should emulate Pippin’s game- but not his personality. To his credit he was able to mesh well interpersonally with MJ (not an easy task), but I did not see Pip as a great team leader. Intense and dedicated, but also whiny and sometimes a distraction.
What do you guys think the chances are Sammy gets bought out this offseason since nobody wants him?
0% chance Sammy gets bought out. Typically buy out players that:
I don’t think Sam fits into any of those cases.
Agreed, no chance he’ll get bought out, and I’d be pissed if it happened. He isn’t that horrible and possesses enough ability to where it would be just stupid to have him on the books and not be able to put him on the floor
Sam and Lou Williams for Raymond Felton/Nazi and 2nd round pick. They have been trying to move Felton for some time now. They already have his replacement in Augustin. LB loves Lou Williams and Bell can continue to defend the bigger guards. Not totally sure if the money works, probably doesn’t. If it means taking that 2nd round pick and getting a third team involved to take back a bad contract I would be all for it. Felton is the main driving force, a solid young PG with 3 point shooting potential who defends well at his position. Someone is going to put this in the trade kicker and bust my bubble. Let Miller walk and draft another PG to back up Felton. The Sixers get younger at the PG spot and more defensive. Plus Felton is a young veteran not someone incapable of running a team or unproven player. Nazr is better than Ratliff, at least offensively. Brand and Smith can more than make up for Ratliff’s minutes. Just a thought.
I also said the Sixers would win the series 4-2. I really don’t know jack
Felton is a restricted (if they give the qualifying offer) free agent so that would have to be a sign and trade.
He’s certainly worth Lou money. He’s more than worth all the money Sam has received and will. With Miller money coming off the books this season I don’t know the cap implications but he is well worth the pursuit. Relying on a PG from the draft isn’t a great way to begin the season unless there is a Derrick Rose around the 17th or 18th pick, wherever they fall this year.
RRose:
Larry Brown loves Lou Williams? I don’t know about that. Larry Brown’s worst nightmare are players that who have awful shot selection (check), force the issue to much offensively (check), make sloppy passes and turnovers (check), overestimate their ability to hit long range shots (check), who are a little too selfish (check), and who aren’t great defenders (check).
Methinks Lou = not exactly an LB kinda guy. That said, I do like you’re thinking in that any trade offer where we give Sammy up, we’d need some type of big man short term veteran in return, and Nazr would fit that bill as a guy to plug in that is effective.
Also…Raymond Felton would not be the PG for us. He can’t shoot. Period. As noted by many, if we are going to pair Iggy (crap three point shooter) and Thad (potential to be a pretty good but not great one)…we NEED a PG that can dial it up from long distance.
Felton, while he excels at running transition offense and was a pass first guy while at UNC…does not fit the bill of what we need. I honestly wouldn’t see Felton as much of an upgrade over A-Miller’s skills, except for his youth and athleticism…two things we already have in abundance.
I’ll cast my NO WAY vote for Felton, too. I had him in the fantasy league, so I followed him closely. He’ll give you assists. He’ll get you rebounds. He picks up steals. He’ll even get a few blocks. One thing he cannot do is shoot. More often than not, he was putting up 6 for 17 (including 1 for 4 from 3) or 5 for 14 nights. Here and there he’d go something like 8 for 22 and LB would get ticked off. Maybe once every 5 or 6 games he’d have a good shooting night, like 8 for 14 or 9 for 15.
I agree with Dave T, Felton is not for us. With Iguodala and Young on the wings we’ll need shooting from our PG, and Felton doesn’t fit the bill.
And I say no F”N way to trading for Rafer Alston, the guy that Stefanski was gushing over after the Orlando series.
Feton looked best against the Sixers. But that was becasue any team with 2 quicker guards went nuts against the Sixers. Miller and Green shredded by Felton/Augustine, and swept by Harris/Dooling. 2 mediocre teams that looked at their best against the Sixers.
Miller is a good player, and he can defend some bigger guards well. But he got exposed when he was forced to chase a wuick guard all game- and really helped a guy like Felton look good.
As a Hornets fan, I’d do this trade. I love Peja, and he can win games for you, but the Hornets have a desperate need to get younger. I have more trust in Dalembert than Hilton Armstrong. If the Hornets did this deal, they’d probably look to pull a Camby with Tyson Chandler, as having a slightly better replacement would allow them to get TC’s injury issues off their roster.
I will go one step further and say if you all feel Iguodala has overstated his importance and the team wants to blow up a little more, you can have ANYONE else on the Hornets roster (except Paul and West) for Dalembert + Iguodala. Seriously. We don’t have a lot, but we DO have shooters. Dalembert + Iguodala for Peja + Mo Peterson + Julian Wright works. Philly gets: rid of a contract they don’t like, 2 3 pt shooters– one solid and one great, and a young super athletic guy. So what if he and Thaddeus Young are like the same guy? You’ll have 2! New Orleans gets: an athletic scorer who doesn’t have to be a franchise player because we already have one, a big man.
I know, I know. I’m dreaming. But you really can have Peja.
Sammy for Peja, sure. Sammy and Iggy for Peja and someone else not named west or paul, no thanks.
You can have Tyson Chandler too?
Haha. I kn0w. Our roster’s pretty awful.
Ticktock6 – Do you like the Sixers roster better?
Nope, I just noticed watching the playoffs that the Sixers were pretty much the opposite of the team I watch. I kinda enjoyed them because of it– change of pace. So you’re looking at two teams deeply flawed in opposite ways. We have an overabundance of outside shooting, and a lack of youth and athleticism.
It just seems like something could be done there… I think the Hornets should be looking seriously at ALL the young teams with athleticism, looking to make deals. As well as looking at teams with contracts that match Peja’s. Of course they’ll just sign another 32 yr old swingman….
Addendum, because I got off track re: the original post:
You want to get rid of your guy, and I bet the Hornets would do this trade if Philly offered it. If I know them, though, they wouldn’t use Dalembert as a backup. They’d use it to cheaply dump Tyson Chandler for other pieces (like they already tried to do with the OKC trade). If CP can make Dalembert better than he is, it gets rid of Peja’s contract AND solves the “but if we trade Tyson b/c of his salary, we cannot compete with Hilton Armstrong as our starting center!” problem.
Interesting stuff, Tick Tock. It gives me a glimmer of hope that a Dalembert trade could actually happen.
TickTock– tell me, whose time is up for the Hornets? And are there any deals involving the Sixers that are in the works for the summer. Is there a fire sale going on with the Hornets? Thanks man and welcome to the ReclinerGM Blog.
ESPN INSIDER QUOTE…interesting:
So I was looking on ESPN’s NBA page today, and in the right corner where they list all the NBA headlines, the last one reads as follows: ”The 76ers may be totally blown up.”
Anyone have ESPN insider by any chance that could further elaborate on this link? Obviously any of the Insider taglines are going to be blatently exagerrated and set up to make you want to click the link…but still, I’m curious to hear a bit more detail about this one, who said it, what it meant, etc.
”The 76ers may be totally blown up.”
Sounds interesting. I doubt they have some source that we have not heard about, but would like to here what it says.
I have insider. It’s just good copywriting that’s all. Attention grabbing headline. There is absolutely nothing that says the Sixers will be blown up. It’s the NBA rumors page and the two Sixers snippets are about Stefanski planning to talk to Dileo within the week and that he hasn’t heard from Andre Miller or Theo Ratliff since the last game.
I guess blown up means the assumption that Miller won’t be back.
It references two article you all probably read already – here and here.
IMO, blown up implies Brand or Iguodala. But I guess they can use whatever teaser leads they choose.
Absolutely hilarious, and spot on. I’d love Peja coming off the bench and am relatively comfortable with Speights/Smith…Brand doing center duties. I wouldn’t mind Ratliff signing for one-more-year despite his eoy hijinx.
Dave D – Stefanski said today on ESPN 950 the won’t be resigning Theo Ratliff. Probably has some to do with him bashing the coaching staff aka Tony Dileo but more so to do with Brand and Jason Smith back healthy (crossing fingers).
He was gone either way, but sealed it with his post-Game 6 remarks.