I know everyone is still on the honeymoon with the Elton Brand signing, but Ed Stefanski and the Sixers still have some work to do. First and foremost they need to get Andre Iguodala and Louis Williams re-signed to long-term deals. Then they need to fill out the remainder of the roster. As I see it the Sixers will only have 10 total players after they sign the guys we all assume are locks to be on the squad.
- Samuel Dalembert – C
- Jason Smith – C/PF
- Elton Brand – PF
- Reggie Evans -PF
- Marreese Speights – PF
- Thaddeus Young – SF
- Andre Iguodala – SG/SF
- Willie Green – SG
- Louis Williams – PG/SG
- Andre Miller – PG
I estimated those 10 players will bring the Sixers payroll to roughly $60,629,995.
We need 5 more players (2 active) to fill out the rest of the roster. Most importantly, everyone agrees we need to bring in a shooter to create the well-rounded team needed to compete for a championship. Preferably a guy that can both shoot the three and maintain the defensive level we all expect. The problem: the 76ers have no more cap flexibility (2008 cap is $58.68M and the luxury tax threshold is $71.150M). To my understanding all the Sixers have in terms of exceptions or flexibility is the veterans minimum, which this season tops out at $1,262,275 for a player with 10+ years experience and decreases based on tenure in the league.
Potential Shooters for the Sixers
I have one big qualification for making this list. The players MUST shoot the three better than the Sixers’ best 3pt shooter career-wise (Louis Williams at 34.7%). College stats apply for rookies. Just so you get an idea of what other considerations I had, I only put guys on this list that I feel would take or have little choice but to accept the minimum salary if they plan on playing in the NBA this season. Everyone is either an unrestricted free agent or undrafted rookie.
Unrestricted Free Agent Shooters
Eddie House (Looks like House won’t sign for the minimum) – Eight year NBA vet who shoots 38% from three for his career. He would bring playoff and championship experience from his run last year with Boston. He made $1.5M last season and the Sixers could offer him just over $1.14M. If the Celtics have to go full mid-level exception or more to bring back James Posey, Eddie House becomes more attainable.
Michael Finley – 37.1% career three-point shooter. Championship experience. Can play two positions. Also brings good defense even at 35-years-old. The Spurs have 4 unrestricted free agents and with the addition of Roger Mason, it looks like they won’t bring them all back. Robert Horry might retire and his numbers, games played and minutes have been decreasing at a rapid pace the last few years. I know they want Kurt Thomas back if he doesn’t retire. So I think the Spurs will have to make a choice between Finley, Damon Stoudamire or neither. They need to get younger, and Mason was a step in that direction.
Gordan Giricek – 36.8% from three in his career. The 31-year-old has been in the league only 6 seasons. Is a decent defender, but I have seen him at times look to do a little to much on offense. He isn’t a great playmaker, and the Sixers would only need him to make open shots and not be a dog on the defensive end.
Kareem Rush – I really like this option. He is only 27, shoots 36% from three for his career. Last season he finally got an opportunity to play 70 games at 20mpg and shot 3.7 three-point attempts per game at 38.9% both career bests. He is a 6′6″ shooting guard with good athleticism and the potential to be a good defender.
Damon Stoudamire – I really don’t want any parts of a 35-year-old (in September), 5′10″ point guard who shot under 35% from three in his last three seasons. BUT, he is a career 35.7% shooter and won’t get more than the veterans minimum so he makes the list.
Salim Stoudamire – I actually prefer this Stoudamire of the two. He is younger and taller, shooting 36.6% from three in his first 3 seasons. This guy shot 50% from three on 6.6 attempts per game at Arizona. That is ridiculous.
Derrick Byars – I loved Byars in college; he was a leader and good scorer. He also shot 40% from three at Vanderbilt on 4.4 attempts per game over his 3-year career. At 6′7″ he can play shooting guard or small forward. As far as I know he played 5 games last season in Europe and is currently on the Orlando Magic summer league team.
Casey Jacobsen – Remember him? 3rd all-time leading scorer in Standford history – in only 3 seasons. Shot 42.7% in college and was drafted by Phoenix in 2002. He is a career 35.2% NBA three-point shooter. Prior to last season with Memphis, he was playing overseas in Germany and the Euroleague. In 2007 he was the MVP of the Finals in which his team won the German Basketball Championship. At 6′6″ and 27 years old this is my diamond that most people wouldn’t even think to consider.
Pay Garrity – I think its more likely we end up with this Orlando shooter than J.J. Redick the guy everyone is clamoring over. The 31-year old is a career 39.8% three-point shooter who can spread the floor from the PF position.
JamesOn Curry – Chicago Bulls free agent who played 13 games in the NBDL last season shooting 37.7% from three and averaged 20ppg. In college Curry was a very good long-range shooter, attempting 5.6 three-pointers per game, shooting 39.6% from deep in two seasons at Oklahoma State.
Pat Carroll – 44.5% three-point shooter in college with good size. After he graduated in 2005 he went to Italy and ended up hurting his shoulder which kept him from playing the entire season. The last two years he has been playing overseas shooting 44.7% from three. What is pissing me off is that he isn’t shooting many threes on the Sixers summer league team! He does know that is the only way he can win a roster spot right?
Eric Piatkowski – He is turning 38, and I have no idea whether this guy can even still play. Got in 16 games last season with Phoenix and shot 11-26 from three. He is a career 40% three-point shooter.
2008 Undrafted Rookie Shooters
Josh Duncan – I think Duncan can be a decent NBA player if he can improve his lateral quickness to defend NBA small forwards and finds a specialty as a big outside shooter. He proved to be one of the strongest players in the draft and very versatile. He shot 39.4% from three in college, and we could use a back-up small forward now that Carney is gone. You also get the bonus that Duncan should be a good rebounder at small forward as well. He is currently on the Miami Heat summer league squad.
Shan Foster – Everyone knows Foster, big time scorer from Vandy. His senior season was ridiculous for a perimeter player. 20ppg, 52% from the field and 46.9% from three. He clearly has NBA range and size. The knock on him was he didn’t do much else besides score. He’ll have to improve his defense if he wants to play extended minutes or have any longevity in the NBA. He is currently on the Mavs summer league team.
Drew Neitzel – 40% career three-point shooter on 5 attempts per game at Michigan State. Brings leadership and steadiness at the point. And he had some of the best coaching a college player could get from Tom Izzo. Neitzel is on the Timberwolves summer league team.
Chris Lofton – This guy could turn into the new Eddie House. An undersized shooting guard who is a great 3pt shooter (42.2% in college) and a great foul shooter. He is also the definition of a specialist attempting 8 threes per game in college representing 67% of his overall field goals. He is currently on the Denver Nuggets summer league team.
Stanley Burrell – Another Xavier alum who shot 37.8% from three on 4.7 attempts per game. He is 6′3″ and a very strong defender. He is currently on the Pacers summer league roster.
Pat Calathes – If you follow local college hoops you should know Calthes from Saint Joe’s. He shot 38.1% from three on 2.9 attempts per game. He is 6′10″ and averaged over 7 boards per game his last two seasons. He is only 210 pounds and more of a big small forward than power forward. He will have to improve his, strength and quickness on the defensive end significantly to guard guys in the pros. Pat is on the Miami Heat summer league team.
Anthony Morrow (signed with the Warriors after a fantastic summer league performance) – I watched a lot of ACC this season as a UNC fan so I know for a fact Anthony Morrow is an NBA caliber shooter. He has good range, great form and decent size at 6′5″. He shot 42.1% on 5 attempts per game for his career at Georgia Tech. Last season shot a blistering 44.8% on 5.6 attempts. He apparently signed to play in Ukraine as a fall back plan if he isn’t picked up by an NBA club this summer. He is currently on the Miami Heat summer league roster, but it doesn’t look like he has played at all.
Brian Roberts – Very good player from Dayton who could be a solid back-up point guard on a team that needs a shooter (Sixers!). This kid shot 44.1% in four years in college, never shot under 41% in any given season and last season shot 45.5% on 6.5 attempts. He is currently on the Orlando Magic summer league squad, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they signed him since they are in need of point guard help and love to shoot the three as a team.
Jaycee Carroll – Carroll can flat out shoot the rock. He comes from Utah State where he shot 46.5% from three on 5.9 attempts over his four year career. He is currently on the New Jersey Nets summer league team and has very little chance of getting picked up there since they are well stocked with guards.
Jamar Butler – Another very solid college point guard with a nice outside shooting touch. Butler shot 47.2% on 4.7 attempts per game at Ohio State. More importantly he is a capable back-up floor general, who is a tough defender and solid shooter. He was listed on the Nets summer league team, but I don’t see him showing up in any boxscores.
Sixers Must Wait and See
Because we can only offer the veterans minimum, the Sixers will likely have to wait and see what players get signed for more money and pretty much pick from what is left. Stefanski has proven he can get a big time player in here almost out of thin air. So it isn’t out of the question that he could convince a proven veteran shooter to come to the Sixers as the final piece to a championship puzzle now that we have Elton Brand.
This is by no means a complete list (I left out the top 10 NBDL 3pt shooters), and I am sure you guys will contribute greatly in the comments. As players get signed elsewhere I will cross them off this list. If you have anyone you want added let me know in the comments – but please do your homework first.
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I think most of the rookies you mentioned will make their respective teams so that would take them out of the equation. I like Rush, but he takes a lot of bad shots and isn’t very good from the free throw line. Derrick Byars intrigues me. Particularly because we could use some height in the backcourt.
In order that I like
1. Eddie House (based off his performance in the finals he would def be a great addition. I honestly think he was big reason the celtics won. The lakers could not leave him like they could leave Rondo)
2. Kareem Rush (I like his size and skills and if I remember correctly I think he lit up the Sixers in a
game this year)
3.Salim Stoudamire (Have only seen him in limited action but he reminded me of a young Eddie House when I did see him)
4. Derrick Byars (I loved him in college, he was a very clutch player, a great scorer and showed leadership. Was injured a lot in the Sixers summer league games last year and almost poked out Lou Williams eye. But besides all that would like to see the Sixers give him a shot.)
I am not familiar with a lot of the other players listed, but if at all possible would love to find a way to get Marco Bellinelli from the Warriors, Suede pointed out on a previous comment why that prob wouldn’t happen but I think he is going to be really good, I think we should make a push for him now before he has actually done anything and would still be pretty cheap.
I wouldnt mind seeing Rush brought in here. Byars could be interesting, though they couldnt find a spot for him last year.
@Kevin
With Carney and Korver on our roster at the start of last season there really wasn’t a spot for Byars. Much different story this year.
I’ve seen Salim Stoudamire many times in Atlanta. He’s not a bad shooter, but is a selfish player. He’ll dribble down and shoot without letting the offensive set.
He’s a poor man’s Iverson, a very poor man.
Good work Dannie.
I believe Chris Quinn is restricted. I think Miami gave him a QO.
These guys really are scrubs outside the top 4, but that is all we can look at. Maybe the Sixers get lucky and get a productive 3 point shooter who can defend out of the blue. That would be awesome.
Dannie, question for you: where do we want the shooter, playing the 2 or the 3?
About Pat Carroll, I’ve watched the two summer league games, and you can’t blame him for not shooting a lot of threes because a) he’s just not getting a lot of minutes, and b) except for Jason Smith and Mo Speights, everyone seems to be out for themselves and not really passing the ball, even Thad. When Carroll gets it, he definitely looks to shoot, and he’s looked good.
He kind of looks out of place when he’s out there, you’ve got 4 guys looking to go one-on-one, waiting for their turns, but Carroll’s constantly moving, trying to lose his defender and get open, instinctively getting to an open spot whenever anyone attacks the basket. It’s like the coach told the other 4 players to space it out and give room for drives to the hoop, but he told Carroll to pretend he’s in Utah’s offense. Must be that European experience. He’ll remind you of Korver with that quick release, and how he’s constantly reaching back to touch his heels during dead balls. He could be the Rip Hamilton-type Cheeks wanted Carney to be. Not the fastest guy, but quick enough.
My choice for the shooter is Michael Finley, I like him even better than Brent Barry:
a) Would be a great influence on the team as a wise old head, like Kevin Ollie; he’d be the been-there, done-that guy; I think he’d be terrific for LouWill’s, Thad’s and Iggy’s development
b) Can still shoot
c) Recent durability
d) You know how when you work with real talent at work, and if he isn’t a bastard you can really learn a lot and it helps you become a much better (profession)? He just spent 3 seasons with Gregg Popovich, one of the best coaches in the game.
I think our backcourt is set;[Iggy,A.Miller,L.Will.,W.Green,J.Gordon]. Want a veteran, preferably a 3 or 3/2. Finley would be my first choice, but why would the Sixers be his first choice? Not concerned with this guys defense, he would be here for one reason, my top choice:Garrity. Don!t want a small guard[House?]; at the end of a game when trailing want this player on the court along with L.Will.[our best breakdown guy]; can!t have 2 small guys out there together.
suede, have you been watching the games? What’s your take so far?
great post. i like Rush and Finley. i also am intrigued by casey jacobson. that guy was a good player and a great shooter. had no idea what happened to him, but if he is winning MVP awards in europe, maybe he is pretty good. we are on a real low budget here
You were right about Carney, so I’m trying real hard to see the good about Gordon:
- NBA body, and athleticism
- can get to the line
- passing
- can really run the break
But the same reasons you wanted Mario Chalmers over Kyle Weaver applies here, right? BTW, I’m disappointed by Weaver’s play so far, I wonder if he’ll play better under Brown?
Zack, are you the infamous Sixerzguy; Gordon and Weaver, to me , serve the same purpose for us; allow L.Will. to play the 2 and guard the 1 on opposing teams. Neither are shooters but they both would make the team better. Guys, related to Dannies topic, were the 2001 Sixers a good 3pt. shooting team, and can you win a title now while being average at best at it?
suede, thanks for the compliment, glad to see you finally over here. I saw jjg was here, too. It’d be great if Statman, Dean, hugh, KM, sfw and others could make it over here, but it’s kind of late now, all the big stuff is done. Dean’s head probably exploded when he found out we got Brand without trading Andre Miller…
A.McKie, my thing with Jacobsen is, why can’t he stick with an NBA team if he’s such an asset? If Utah needed a white guy shooter so bad, why didn’t they go after him instead of Korver? Why didn’t D’Antoni fall all over himself to sign him in New York? There’s something negative there that’s not obvious, but whatever it is makes him NOT an NBA player, IMO.
I still think exploring a Willie Green, Jason Smith or some 2nd rounders for Morris Almond of Utah is the ideal choice, but out of the guys on the above list, my order would be:
(1. Morris Almond)
1. Gordon Giricek
2. Kareem Rush
3. Jamar Butler
4. Brian Roberts
5. Casey Jacobson
(E House I’m not counting as I don’t think the C’s let him go…especially if they let Posey walk)
Giricek: Dannie, I’d say Giricek is far better then a decent defender. IMO, he’s extremely talented on that end of the floor, and when getting burn for the Jazz, has played some phenomenal individual lock down defense for spurts against the NBA’s dominant two guards. He has the size to play backup SF (which we need), can hit threes, plays great D, and is very effective in 15 mpg.
K Rush – Have loved this guy since Mizzou, when he was their money crunch time baller that could light it up on any given night. I think Rush is a far more complete basketball player then Eddie House is…he has far better handle and can blow by a defender for a jumpshot and finish around the hoop nicely, plus he plays more of a team game then other guys that just jack up ill-advised threes. He’s always performed well (albeit not efficiently) when given PT, and keeps getting cut because he’s always on teams with gluts of swingmen.
Jamar Butler – You guys have heard me babble about him before. This guy is the classic college PG that flies under the radar this year. He is a 4 year senior that can do everything. Started college as a score-first tiny off guard…was thrust in the PG role at OSU his soph year and did surprisingly well…Jr. year he had to take a backseat to Conley Jr…Sr. year he was PHENOMENAL on a mediocre team that never gelled.
Not only can he hit NBA range threes from anywhere on the court…he has truly developed into an excellent all around PG. 15 pts, 6 asts, 94% FT’s, 38% 3’s…hit more then three 3’s a game last year (104). Has a wonderful sense of the court, great passer, great at getting teammates involved, regularly took over OSU games when they needed scoring, and hustles his butt off on D. Great example of a guy that stayed 4 years that really improved and is criminally underrated. His game is PERFECT for an NBA backup PG that can both run at team, score off the drive, and shoot lights out from deep.
Josh Duncan and Stanley Burrell are guys I think CAN hit the three, but aren’t really 3 point shooting guns. I really like both their skill sets (especially Burrell as a Posey tough nosed defense/midrange J type)…but we need a lights out shooter, and these guys are not that.
And if Pat Calathes ever winds up on a Sixers roster I will puke, I’ve never seen such wasted talent. Poor man Josh McRoberts at the SF position…hugely talented, very versatile, bball IQ through the roof…and on court is nothing but whiney, makes terrible decisions, has never put it together, and time and again proves he has zero mental strength and caves when the slightest thing goes wrong. Ugh.
Also…Dannie, great call with Pat Garrity, I wasn’t even sure he was still on the Magic’s roster last year. He’s been bitten horribly by the injury bug three years running, but if Garrity is healthy, I’d put him in my top 3. Great size, great bball IQ, and is lethal from anywhere on the court.
Great list and very informative. @DaveT- I would also like Giricek so hopefully he will take a big pay decrease. Wasn’t he making like $4mil when we traded for him last year?
I have a salary cap question that I’m sure at least one of you would know. Can the sixers sign multiple FAs for the Vet minimum or do they just have one?
And can they sign as many undrafted FAs for the minimum whether they are over the cap or not?
“Dean’s head probably exploded when he found out we got Brand without trading Andre Miller…”
Heh heh. Thanks for that, Zack.
Morty, I miss you and Dean’s “smackdowns”… ha ha. Deep Sixer was the wild, wild west, I loved it. Now it’s a mental institution.
bball, wikipedia to the rescue:
Minimum Salary Exception: Teams can sign players for the NBA’s minimum salary even if they are over the cap, for up to two years in length. In the case of two-year contracts, the second-season salary is the minimum salary for that season. The contract may not contain a signing bonus. This exception also allows minimum-salary players to be acquired via trade. THERE IS NO LIMIT to the number of players that can be signed or acquired using this exception.
Good info Zack, One thing that seems to come in play now with certain guys [Giricek, Hermann,Nachbar] is the money the euro teams can pay now. Actually love Hermann because at 6!9″ he is very athletic and his one year he got minutes his numbers were off the charts.S.F.W. is my older brother, been bugging him to join us, we go back and forth by phone; he will be here eventually.
Guys, I really don!t want a small guard but if they add one, C.Lofton could work, he reminds me of an old Sixer[ D.Barros] who if not overused like he was, could have been a valuable player on a good team.
If Giricek can really defend he might not be a bad option, but he probably can make more money in Europe than with us. We need that 2/3 hybrid player to do what Carney did for us.
Garrity is the best shooter of that group, but I don’t know if he fits otherwise. Can he guard a SF?
Zack: I wish Dean was here to eat crow. Although I doubt he actually would do so I could try to make him!
Suede: get sfw over here.
Carroll has shot well so far in the summer leaguebut his height, 6!4″ maybe?, doesn!t help. Letting Giracek go to a contender last year should be a feather in our managements cap with him but it comes down to money. Dean must travel alot, he shows up very sporadictly. Read today we are paying Boothes whole salary and 2/3!s of Carney!s, Mchale must of held out bigtime!!
Another way to look at the “shooter” issue is this: It’s near the end of the game, with about 5 possessions per team left, and we NEED a shooter out there because they won’t let us attack inside. You take 1 of the shooters mentioned above, and 4 current Sixers – what’s your team? If we don’t get that shooter, our 4th quarter lineup is gonna be Sammy, Brand, Iggy, LouWill and Miller – who do you take out and replace with the shooter?
Zack – I prefer the shooter to be on the taller side and if possible can play either the 2 or 3.
Looking at this roster we seem to have room for a back-up at every position besides power forward.
You also raise a good question on your last comment. I would sit Lou down if we need a shooter in the game. The interesting part is; if the defense leaves anyone to double Brand it will be Andre Miller! The reason I still want Miller on the floor; on the kick out he is the player I want making the decision now that the defense is in scramble mode trying to get their rotations right having doubled Brand. Miller would be the guy that finds the right shooter on the court to take the shot. I only see Lou shooting it if he gets it.
-Dannie, hope you are wrong, for L.Will. to become better he has to become a very good 3pt. shooter[38 %?].Agree about A.Miller, can!t take him out in that situation, besides decision making, a very good open shot maker.Need a low post threat in there also, my 5 ;Brand,[Garrity?],Iggy, L.Will. and A.Miller.
Zack, Who do you take out? Whoever is not playing their role well at the time. Basketball being what it is, could be any of ‘em, depending on opposition, matchups, day, health, pre-game traffic, pet deaths, bio-rhythms, horoscopes, etc. Gotta have that deadeye shooter out there, if that turns out to be Sixers-possible. And since ball possession is the most critical aspect of a game in the balance, Miller, Brand and, dare I say it, Dalembert (from among those you mentioned) are probably the least dispensible game closers–unless you need creative initiation from the wing in Iguodala (cross your fingers).
jUMPIN, forgot the offensive rebounding aspect of Sammy. Dannie, just got a little depressed looking at our 3pt. numbers compared to the top teams;32%to an average of about 37%.Makes me understand a bit better the “trade Iggy” faction that is out there. We need a shooter that is more than a specialist , or 2 if one doesn!t emerge from our current group, to win a title in the next 5 years. The disparity is scary!!!
Yeah the Sixers haven’t proved they can shoot beyond the arc. Hoping we see some overall improvement in-house this season but adding two players of the 5 remaining roster spots we have that are specialists can help get teams out of zones for stretches during the game.
The end game scenario is great to talk about but at that point in the game you really just need guys to make good plays down the stretch whether its hitting the three, going to the basket or just getting fouled. What we can’t have is guys taking contested, bad shots.
Another area that I am really concerned with is free throw shooting. The Sixers got to the line 26 times per game last season good for 10th in the NBA but they were also the worst free throw shooting team as well. We don’t have one player on the team, who plays 10+ minutes per game and 80% or better from the line that is just disturbing to me.
Other than our defense we do not fare well in most catagories. I think next summer the last big decisions will have to be made. Can a true inside presence, maturity of our young players and a couple of specialty type players get us into the top 8 of the shooting teams in the league this year, hopefully.By the way, J.Will.[75th] and Iggy [106th] are our highest ranking 3 pt. experts last year.
Dannie, in bringing up the end-of-game scenario, I was thinking about how you narrow down your list of players to one or two guys. “…you really just need guys to make good plays down the stretch… What we can’t have is guys taking contested, bad shots.” Doesn’t that eliminate all the rookies if we GOTTA bring in a shooter for the last possessions? Remember we were discussing that one play in the playoffs where a 3-point shot was designed for Carney, the Pistons saw it coming and made the right adjustments, but Carney took it anyway and you thought they should’ve run something for Willie Green? In that spot, we’d want a shooter to recognize that the play had broken down and not force the shot, right?
If we assume all these guys can shoot, what’s the next selection criterion?
Zack, playoff experience?,b ball I.Q.?, and probably #1 [size and position?]
Zack, funny thought; guess who has a player option for 5.2 mill. next year?[K.Korver] Wouldn!t that be perfect; Mid-level exemption?
Strong rebounding at both ends and, as Dannie alluded to, strong foul shooting are the end-game ingredients to winning. Bad shots are inevitable in the heat of an NBA 4th quarter; the idea is to limit them. Will Sixers’ team IQ/decision-making improve with addition of Brand and a year of maturing? A key question, especially as it pertains to half-court sets.
suede, leave Kyle in the purple mountains; his defense has no majesty.
On Korver: there was much ado about average.
jjg: Good to see you didn’t leave your wit at philly.com. However, I must say that Korver’s hair was well above average.
Morty, we have to get Korver back. Who am I? On a serious note, should we add 1 and not 2 shooters this year? Doesn!t it benefit E.S. to put our current players in end of game situations THIS year to weed out the have and have nots moving on. A few less wins and a better read on 2010 should be more the goal, don!t you think? Jumpin, he averaged over 30 min. per game here, twice what he should on a good team,[ us in 2010?] wouldn!t mind him and Budinger [Draft?] as the final pieces to our “parade puzzle” in 2010. Back to work tomorrow, I!m all blogged out.
Zack – For me it eliminates rookies as the first option off the bench if we need a shooter at the end of a game. That is why I think it is important they bring in at least two one veteran and one rookie.
The Carney situation was different that your proposed situation above in that it was for a specific play. Not having a shooter on the floor for the last 3-5 minutes to keep the defense honest. I wouldn’t be setting up a play for Carney at the end of the game at all, but that’s just me.
If we assume all can shoot I would go:
1. Bball IQ and “knowing your role” I don’t want guys thinking they need to shot every time they catch it
2. Defense and size for the position kind of go hand and hand for me
3. Playoff experience
Morty, …as was his charity work, reportedly. And in all fairness, he had a friendly smile.
all you guys ranking giricek as your top choice—do you forget he was a sixer last year and didnt fit into this style—why would he one year later??
mole, he did seem like a fish outta water, but part of that is attributable to Cheeks’ misuse of him. If I were Giricek, Philly is the last place on my list. He’s better than he showed here.
Giricek came into a team where management didn’t want im to play. He also got his most playing time when the team was in total disarry. Can’t knock him for that. That said, if his point % is only 37%, that’s not crazy impressive, it’s league average in fact. Lou shot 36% last year, and is constantly knocked for how he is below average.
Morty, To further the comparison, Giricek plays tougher D, is stronger, has better grasp of game. Of course, Williams’ leaves him in the dust in a sprint, shows a stronger scoring instinct.
Please disregard the possessive apostrophe re Williams. My bad.
Jumpin, with a #1 scoring option in the post[20 ppg.] what is your feeling towards Iggy as the 2guard.
suede, obviously, a better situation now with a legitimate forward in Brand, but if roster stands pat, I think you’re still sacrificing offensive balance and half-court effectiveness in deploying a (relative) non-shooter like Iguodala at the 2 when team is short other shooting threats. Can get away with it in regular season, but as you saw in Piston series… . While recognizing his talents, I like ‘Iggy sign & trade’ idea but Stefanski reportedly promised Brand otherwise.
Three remaining signings/tweak trades we need to fill out our active 12 player list:
1. A large or average sized, SF shooter that can hit 3’s. (Giricek, KVH, Nachbar, Garrity, Jacobson, etc).
2. A young backup PG that can run the offense, and hit 3’s (Jamar Butler, B Roberts, C Lofton, C Quinn, T Diener)
3. Another big man…3rd stringer, preferably some kind of veteran that’s been around a while. Think a poor man’s PJ Brown…a guy like Adonal Foyle, Tony Battie…someone of that caliber that we could get for 1 million to make sure we have big man insurance in case the injury bug hits.
The above three would give us two three point gunners off the bench, and round out our front court to give us another vet option after Reggie Evans and Jason Smith.
Also wanted to agree with others that said Giricek was completely misused and a non-factor in Sixer plans last year. We had no reason to play him, hence his low minutes and eventually being waived. Has nothing to do with his on court game.
Nachbar will probably be slightly too expensive, unless we trade Willie Green. The more I think about it, if we went SF backup to shoot 3’s, I really like C Jacobson. Guys that are great college players, bounce around the NBA getting a few minutes and practices in, that get caught in logjams and eventually wind up in Europe…then come back…tend to have transformed into VERY solid NBA guys. See: Parker, Anthony.
JJG – How is the offense much different with Iguodala at the two rather than Willie Green? Wouldn’t it be more potent? Unless we get a starting caliber SF or SG that is a real shooter I don’t understand not starting Iguodala and Thad together and moving Willie to a scoring option off the bench.
Dave, if they wanted a young 3 pt. shooting pt. they probably would have put him on the summer league team, it seems they are more concerned with a defensive backup pt. [Gordon] because L.Will. can play that role. I don!t expect the 3rd p.g. to play this year except in blowouts anyway. Can we add another veteran big, with 6 at the 4/5 positions , not sure, hopefully Reggie fills that role. Spieghts is real long and may be a 5 more than a p.f. if he fills out. I like Jacobson also, I hope our shooter is no smaller than 6!6″.
@Suede:
Summer league rosters for a team doesn’t necessarily correspond to who they might sign. It’s much more a showcase for a guy’s individual talent for all the GM’s and league coaches.
Take a guy like James Singleton on the Mavs summer league team. So far he’s playing stellar, tough nosed bball, scoring and rebounding in the paint great. But since the Mavs just signed a guy like that last year (Brandon Bass) and have Fazekas on roster as backups, it’s much more like Singleton is impressing the scouts of other teams that will lead to a minimum contract with them.
The summer usually becomes a whirlagig of minor signings and stocks increasing and decreasing that gives various players more exposure. I really hope the Sixers would opt for another team’s summer league standouts for the backup point, instead of Jamont Gordon…who, while having a great skill set, can play point forward, and great D…cannot shoot farther then 5 feet from the basket.
Curious, I haven’t even seen our summer league roster yet, is Herbert Hill on it or have we let him go after the Elton Brand signing?
Dave, read a week ago he volunteered to play with them after he was released but his D.U.I. was in N.York. Surprised he didn!t get an invite somewhere.
@Dave T.
I think Fazekas is on the Clippers and actually played very well for them in very limited minutes.
Your right Joe, good call…I had lost track of The Fazekas, forgot he wound up on the Clips during the 2nd half of last year.
Just looked over our summer league roster for the first time…not very full of impressive names, is it? Although it’s nice to see a foreign player (Bavcic) show up on a roster, as the Sixers have probably been the most Xenophobic team in the NBA the past 15 years.
Dannie, the best way to obtain a good player is to use the $2.8 million trade exception that we obtained in the Carney/Booth trade. We can use that to sign a player, even if we’re over the cap.
According NBA rules, the required minimum to fill out a roster is 13 players. So with the $2.8 million I get Kareem Rush, and the fill the other two roster spots with Jamont Gordon and Pat Carroll.
what happened, did all the guys who used to post on Deep Sixer move here? good for the Recliner GM !
Dannie, great job as usual, the only name missing that I would like to consider is Brent Barry, I would take him over Finley. JJ Redick would be fun…
fellow guido Marco Belinelli is also a great call, I think he doesn’t mesh well with Don Nelson and he will be asked to be traded soon, maybe we could get him before the deadline
I just talked to the top italian journalist covering the NBA and I will have a post up soon about this
always great coverage on Recliner GM it’s a pleasure to read posts and comments, thumbs up one more time
Ricky – Brent Barry signed with Houston so he is off the board for the Sixers. Looking forward to your next post.
L.A. Steve – My understanding is that the Sixers renounced the $2.8M Traded Player Exception they created through the Carney/Booth deal. Exceptions count as salary until you use them on a player or renounce them (they also decrease in value over time). So that $2.8M would have been taking up valuable cap space they can offer Brand. So they renounced it to get it off the books in order to add that to how much they can sign Brand for. Which is why Brand called this deal the “Philly-Max,” meaning the Sixers gave him every penny they could possibly give him.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Dannie, you are right on about the trade exception. It doesn’t exist anymore.
About Jacobsen vs. Parker -
Jacobsen got around 19 mins a game his first three seasons; that’s about as good a shot as you’re gonna get to show that you can stick around in the league, but he still wasn’t able to. There’s something negative about him we don’t know about. I bet it’s something related to his personality (aloofness, arrogance, weirdness, he’s a bad guy, clashes with teammates, dislike for basketball, closet racist), or maybe he has a low basketball IQ. It’s a very different situation from Anthony Parker’s, Parker was never given the chances Jacobsen was.
I think it is safe to say Steve Novak is going to be our shooter. He can be gotten for the league minimum via a trade for “future considerations” aka nothing I THINK. Houston has something like 18 players signed for next season right now. A guy with insider info on realgm said they are talking to Houston about Novak. It makes sense. He can be our 10-11th man and play spot minutes as a shooter. I think this move is a good smart move.
It of course isn’t even close to done yet, but makes sense to me.
I go with Drew Neitzel or Chris Lofton. One of these guys could be the eventual replacement guard that winds up the backup to Lou Will down the line. Not to mention they both can flat out shoot the rock.
Wouldnt mind a shooter with a 2 guard type body who can also defend, cuz god knows Bill Green cant.
Joe – I just saw that as well. I could probably “drum” up a rumors post on it after reading this article as well. Which indicates Houston is going to do something to trim their roster some more. But I don’t really think the guy posting on the RealGM is a good source for a rumor post.
Dannie, what you say makes sense, providing a trade exception does, indeed, count against the cap before it’s used. I would be inclined to think the money wouldn’t count until a player is obtained. Similar to a draft pick, they don’t count the value of a draft pick until the player is drafted and signed. I’m not saying your wrong, (I don’t know), but it does seem a tad unfair.
After all, it is called a salary cap, a trade exception isn’t salary, it’s potential salary. According to NBA rules, a trade exception last one year. The possibility exist that a team could be forced to renounce it prior to year’s end, that doesn’t seem quite fair to me. Theoretically speaking, a trade exception could put at team over the luxury limit and cost them mucho money. For example, I believe Golden State had a $9 million dollar trade exception this year. If they were at the tax limit when they obtained it, they’d be libel for a big bill ($9 million), come tax day.
L.A. Steve – This might help clarify…
“If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can’t act like they’re under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.
Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room.”
Joe, Houston makes sense; Barry, Novak, D.Green, M.Leuen; can!t keep them all.
Blake Ahern
He went through a ten game stretch in the D-League last year where he average over 30 ppg then got signed for the rest of the season by the Heat. He can flat out shoot. He is playing summer league in Vegas right now and has been doing well so far. Lead the NCAA Div I in FT%
@Dannie
lol. I know. This guy seems to be in the know honestly. I trust him. At worst, he does tons of research to make himself look like he has insider info and I am cool with that as well. I saw that chron article as well. It seems to just make perfect sense to me, so I am inclined to believe it. He hasn’t been off base in anything he has said really from the few months I have been reading him. Maybe he just knows a guy… completely possible.
@Joe:
I agree about Novak, he would be a nice addition. He also has some nice height, which is never a bad thing to have if we bring a guy in to only hit threes. Someone also mentioned players Houston has that are swingmen shooting the rock…there is also Luther Head, who the Rockets are definitely committed to after nixing a deal to send him to the Wizards.
@Zack:
Disagree about what you said about Jacobson vs. A Parker. I’d argue that their paths are very similar. Anthony Parker finished college as a 4 year, versatile senior with a pretty polished game from Bradley, but wasn’t ready for the NBA. We had him, then he bounced to the Magic who were loaded in the backcourt , got logjammed out of the NBA, and slowly evolved his game in Europe, became a star, and came back to the States a much more complete player. His game had wildly improved from watching him on the Raptors compared to back when he came out of Bradley.
Jacobson is nearly the same thing. He played three years at Stanford, was nationally recognized as one of the top SG’s in college that year, but came in with a lot of holes in his game and as a very one dimensional player. Even though he got some burn his first few years, he was never really given a chance, and was more thrown in and out of lineups. His game wasn’t up to par. Since then, he’s played in Europe against very good competition (Tau Vitoria in the Spanish Premier league, Brose in Germany’s Bundesliga), and won finals MVP in the Bundesliga.
I think players from the States that play in Europe and find success have been forced to really learn the game and become a more well rounded player. This has happened to guys like Anthony Parker, Trajan Langdon, Louis Bullock, Charlie Bell, Marcus Fizer, Terence Morris, Shammond Williams, Terrell Mcyntire, Lynn Greer, etc…all these guys have had great success overseas because they worked hardcore on their games and evolved as players, choosing to stay there because of more $$ or contractual obligations.
Anthony Parker really is nice talent for what he brings to the table (great shooting, defense, team play, bball IQ), and I’m not saying Jacobson will literally be or bring that, but I definitely trust former college stars that flamed out because of logjams in the NBA, and have found success at the highest level in Europe.
It’s no accident that Tau Vitoria went on a hot streak of reaching two Euroleague final fours while Jacobsen logged heavy minutes for them, and Brose won the German premier league with Casey as the MVP. I definitely think he’d be a great pickup that we could nab for cheap.
Championship!!! Did you say Championship???? You guys feeling pretty smug just because you got Elton Brand. Do you honestly think you are a contender in the East now? You used all your money on Brand. Where you gonna get a shooter from. I bet you wish you had Korver back. Ha Ha!!
ATLHawks, What do you know about championships? Last time Hawks won one they lived in St. Louis and Eisenhower was President. Now that’s what I call a drought!
CLIPPERS JUST WERE GIVEN CAMBY!! Now Denver has the same number of defensive players as championships.
Jumpin, that was cruel but to the point, beautiful!!! Swap of 2nd rounders and money. Cap room is a beautiful thing!!
ATL: Trash talk is unbecoming for a Hawks fan. Just be thankful we got Brand before having to turn our attention to Smith. With the Clippers acquiring Camby, the Hawks have backed into keeping Smith. Call it a day.
Suede: So, unless I’m mistaken, with the last team under the cap (Clippers) out of the picture, the only remaining options for Igoudala are to sign a deal on management’s terms, or accept the one year tender and go unrestricted next year. Which side will blink first?
By the way, LA going this route really demonstrates how afraid teams are to sign restricted FA’s.
Morty, hope it is amicable for both parties, what more could E.S. have done. Move makes sense for Clippers; D. Jordan couldn!t have a better mentor and they can probably get by with less scoring with Davis,Gordon and Thornton.
LA made a stab at the playoffs. Simple. They are planning on showcasing Kaman as “the guy” in the post this year with Camby to complement him. It really is a no lose for them imo. Assuming they start Ross and don’t throw Gordon out there too much, this team could make a push towards 45 wins which may be enough out west nowadays.
Why would Nuggets give up a core player (10, 11 & 3) in Camby for 10 mil exception unless a significant acquisition is around the corner? Have to give Clips credit for bein’ in the game. Baron & Marcus – 2 legit pieces to go with remaining cast of ‘08, along with further roster tweaking.
Jumpin, thought they would use him to at least get a p.g. [Henrich?] Doesn!t make sense.
Maybe Chicago would rather take back cap room than a player for Henrich; renounce the trade exemption and use the money towards Gordon and Deung.
Al Thornton might very well be in the top 3 for Most Improved next year with this trade (aka: gift) going through). They are really going to be relying on him to step up for the majority of their scoring at the wing spots. Interesting move.
From the Nuggets perspective, IMO this can’t just be because they want some extra cap room. It’s not like there are any free agents or defensive pieces to sign at the time being, and the AI/Melo window is not going to last much more then next year. Plus, they already lost Najera, a nice hustle-defense big, to the Nets.
To me this means the Nuggets must have some good reports about how Nene’s recovery has been going, and have seen some good progress from K-Mart this offseason in his his continual attempt at coming back from microfracture surgery the year before this. If Nene can ever stay healthy for a year, he’s still a legit 16 & 8 threat or so, has shocking quickness given his body type, and plays great one on one defense.
I think they’ll go small but intimidating with a PF/C combo of K-Mart/Nene starting together, try to make a tweak trade for a bigger PG for some depth to A Carter, and really look to give Linus Kleiza a lot of minutes this year. Although there could be some huge Melo trade in the works, but I doubt it, since he is Denver’s cash cow (despite the fact that he squanders his ridiculously high talent level with his abysmal shot selection and kills any flow their offense might have any chance he gets because he chucks up terrible jumpers, and doesn’t pass and wait for open shots, which he should do, because he is an excellent passer and has a great midrange game…but doesn’t, because he doesn’t “get it”).
<–Not a Melo guy!
Dave T, I hear what you’re saying, but where my thinking differs from yours is regarding Jacobsen’s readiness for the NBA coming out of college. Getting 20 minutes per game says someone thought he was good enough to be getting those 20 minutes over other players. That means in practice, he was clearly showing that he deserved to be on the floor for those 20 minutes per game, whereas Anthony Parker wasn’t.
To sum – he’s good enough to be in the NBA, but for some reason he’s not. No wonder he’s doing well in Europe, not because he’s developed, but he brings high-level NBA skills to those clubs, any player with Jacobsen’s skills would make those European teams better. But I totally get your point that it was possible that he was getting those minutes even though he wasn’t ready – was that a Mike D’Antoni misjudgment?
Zack, went to Liacoris to watch Parker after we drafted him, looked real good that night in exibition. Thought foot issues hampered him early in his career, dont know if that is why he had to go to Europe.
BTW, I told Jordan at sixersoul that I’d help him cover the summer league games – he writes something up and I chime in in the comments section:
http://sixersoul.blogspot.com/
Watching J.Thompson, Kopponen and Bayless now, Indiana may regret the trade of Bayless; he and T.J. Ford could probably play together for long stretches in the “no handchecking” N.B.A. of today.
@Suede:
Be curious to hear your thoughts on how J Thompson played. I’ve only seen him once at Rider and it was during the 06-07 season, no clue whether this guy is an overrated bust waiting to happen or a total gem that could actually have some skill from a small conference.
Portland got a freaking coup with Bayless. I really wouldn’t like Bayless on a lot of teams, he’s far more of a scorer then distributer, but I think Portland is the perfect fit. It allows them to have him and Brandon Roy be completely interchangeable at the PG and SG spots. Both aren’t pure points, but both are capable of running the team as well as getting hot.
I think they both really compliment each other well…Bayless’ ability to get to the rack and take over in clutch situations is pretty damn impressive. That team is just going to be sick with Rudy F, Oden and Diogu being added to the mix, where Outlaw and Webster are still improving, and Pryzbilla is a very capable backup big.
@Zack:
I just looked up Jacobsen’s stats…I had thought you might have been exaggerating with the 20+ mpg bit, but it looks like my memory was the one that was foggy. I really had no clue he had gotten that much time in Phoenix and the Hornets. With D’Antoni…I have a feeling it had more to do with the lineup of the 02-03 then, before the Nash signing. Frank Johnson was the coach that year, could be wrong on that though.
I think the 02-03 season was the Marbury, Joe Johnson, Marion, Amare (rookie year) season, when they played better then expected, made the playoffs, got a SLAM magazine cover, and people were actually still high on Marbury (my how times have changed).
If I’m getting that lineup right…then I think Casey got a lot of burn basically out of necessity, because they seriously lacked any kind of swingmen to give scoring punch off the bench. They didn’t have Barbosa yet, Quentin Richardson hadn’t arrived, and Raja Bell was still on Dallas. That means the Suns literally didn’t have a single either G/F to play…or maybe Penny was still kicking around that year giving 15-20 mpg or so. Either way, Casey probably got thrown to the Wolves to early because that team had no depth.
As for the D’Antoni and N Orleans year after that, your guess is as good as mine. I guess I just think that a lot of times, rookies that are college talented but not uber-talented and ready for the NBA sometimes don’t pan out, but I fully believe in a guy’s ability to come back several years later ready to play ball with a more well rounded game through hard work, and some more pro experience.
As a Knick fan, would the sixers want to take Q-Richardson off our hands. Maybe waiting till the trade deadline once Q has shown he is healthy and has recovered from last years dissaster of a season. He is a 2-3, an above avg 3-shooter, supposedly is a good defender, and I believe has 2 years left on his contract. Knicks would likely take a future #1, or maybe Willie Green and Smith. Might be tough to make the salaries work, unless they really like him and decide to swap him for Lou Will??
Paul, I’d LOVE to get Q-Richardson on the Sixers. He’d be a great fit at the 2-3 spot. He’s a very good (if streaky) 3 point shooter, very solid defender, athletic, good at attacking the basket, and has clearly proven he can be successful as the 4th or 5th option on offense with superior talent around him, aka with the Phoenix Suns. I think he’s gotten a bad rap due to health issues, and just being mired in the whole Knicks mess.
Given the fact he makes around 8 million a year though, I can’t see salaries matching, unless we included both Reggie Evans and Willie Green in a deal. The deal might make a bit of sense for NYC though, as if they trade either Lee or Zach Randolph they’d need some PF beef on the bench, and in losing Q they wouldn’t mind a nice scoring 2 guard off the bench in Willie Green. Plus, they’ve been looking to shed his (along with Steph, Zach, Curry and J Jeffries) salaries for a while now.
Paul, I honestly wouldn’t want Q Rich for free, let alone trade for him… I watched enough NY games last year and all he does is standing around the 3pt line, wait for the pass and shoot a brick
he’s become so one-dimensional that makes Craig Hodges look like an all around player, LOL
For everyone who thinks this teams DESPERATELY needs a shooter, I have news for you: we made the playoffs last year WITHOUT any shooter, and just added Elton Brand to the same core…
Stefanski will address this needing in the best way, maybe he will wait for the trade deadline to get one, I am very confident and not worried at all
i think Morty was correct in saying…..” with the last team under the cap (Clippers) out of the picture, the only remaining options for Igoudala are to sign a deal on management’s terms, or accept the one year tender and go unrestricted next year. Which side will blink first?”
its about time mgmt has made a smart decision. Iggy is a guy that should have terms dictated to him rather than getting an overblown contract that puts us in mediocrity for the next 6 years.. im so tired of overpaying players. this is a big vivtory for our mgmt.
i can see the face to face meeting…. “Sorry Andre, but you shot 25% against Detroit in the playoffs. we are not paying you $12mm per year. here is $7mm per, take it or leave it. Now get out of my office!!!”
Dave, Thompson would be a good fit here, more of a small forwards game now; ex.] a dribble drive from top of the key, after the play I couldn!t believe it was him. When he fills out some he could be something. Ricky, in some cases numbers don!t lie. Dannie and I discussed the BIG difference in 3 pt. perc. and free throw percentage bet. us and the top teams last year, getting in the playoffs is easier than taking the next step.I think there is one option left for us with Iggy if we don!t match up number wise, I!ll put it out there tonight, it actually makes sense off of all the summer rhetoric and the sheer numbers; gotta get to work!!
I watched a decent bit of last night’s summer league game, and with the caveat that the screen is mighty small, and the game mighty sloppy, here are my observations: Thad’s handle seems improved, but is still a work in progress, and it’s good to see him trying to draw fouls. Jason Smith’s jumper seems more fundamentally solid in that he releases at the top of his jump instead of on the downside, but he still seems mostly out of place on the defensive end, and still needs to finish stronger at the rim. Speights seems as advertised. He can finish at the rim, and has a very nice mid range jumper. With some added bulk, could he be Sammy’s eventual replacement? I could easily see Speights and Smith battling for playing time this season, with Speights winning out.
Ok this seems to be the question, What is a “fair” price for Andre Igoudala? Fair being relative being this is the NBA and all pro athletes are grossly over paid. That being said Franchise players like Kobe get around 20 milion/yr, while we just signed Brand for around 14 million/yr. I personally don’t think that 10 million a year for Igoudala is outrageous. Its less than we offered him last year, and he would probably be insulted by the offer but if he wants to win than he should realize that reasonable contracts help teams win.
10-12 mil is fair for Igoudala, more than fair actually.
Back to the Camby trade for a sec. If I’m a Nuggets fan I am not happy, they just gave up on this season before it began. If I’m a Clippers fan I’m scratching my head, although it is a good deal for them. Why not sign your favorite of the restricted FA’s (Smith, Okafor, Deng) to a deal and wait the 7 days for a response? The Camby deal would almost certainly be there in a week, since the Clippers were the only team in the league with which Denver could have negotiated a straight salary dump.
Factoring in his years of service, rate of inflation, expected future dividends and the bleak economic forecast, I’d offer him $399,999.99 per annum, one penny less than our President makes, and scads more than most citizens…but I half-kid.
For Nuggets.. yeah.. sucks for their fans.. pure savings.. Why they didn’t hold out for a #1 pic for an all star and defensive player of the year, I don’t know.. but 40 million is 40 million.
For Iguidala: Compare him to J. Crawford, R. Jefferson, T. Prince, M. Dunlevey, G. Wallace, S. Marion, R. Lewis, J. Howard, S. Battier, Pega, D. West, C Maggette, A Harrington.
These guys all make varrying amounts of money, but none are below 7 mill starting.
Simply put, loosing Iggy at this point would be devistating to the teams talent level, and I bet ensures that Andre Miller doesn’t come back. Iggy does everything on the court well, and still has room to improve pieces of his offensive game.
He is 24 yrs old. He’s missed 6 games total in the last 4 years. His scoring has improved each year, and his percentages will likely go up as the 2nd option to Brand on offense. He is your main defensive stopper. He’s 5 reb and 5 assists and could very well run their offense for a month or 2 if andre miller showed some age. He is a team leader and excellent community guy.
I see this AI leveling out at 17 ppg with 6 and 6 for the length of this countract as a 2nd scoring option. With more open shots and others to take shots at the end of the shot clock, I see his shooting percentage creeping up to 49%, and his 3pt % getting to near 35%(he reminds me of scotty pippen who eventually became a solid 3pt shooter.)
I keep this AI with a starting offer of 9.5 mill. 10.5,11.5,12.5,13.5 for a 5 year deal worth, 57.5 million. Then I add an opt out at the end of the second season as extra incentive for him to sign this deal and stay the next 2 years, which are the sixers too best shots at a tittle. It is fair, but shows that they value him and now that without him, they are back to being mediocre. With him they can win a tittle.
Paul, great analysis, well done
(100 comments, wow !!)
Paul – sounds pretty much what they offered him to extend $57M. He turned that down. I have said it before and will say it again and write a post about it tonight…
The question isn’t what is fair market price. The question is how much does he want and how much difference is that from what the Sixers and the market suggest is fair. I just wish I could step inside the head of Iguodala right now and pull out that answer.
I hope they don’t piss him off to the point he signs the one year tender and becomes unrestricted at the end of the season. If that happens we could lose him for nothing of use him as trade bait at the deadline. Either scenerio is BAD idea.
Off-topic here, but a quick one – can anyone explain to me why Jason Smith has so much trouble rebounding? I know he’s got short arms, but it can’t be that simple, right? Is it possible that he just doesn’t have that rebounding skill, doesn’t have a feel for it? Can this be corrected?
Zack, Smith’s trouble with rebounding is that he’s not hungry enough and willing to pay the price to get the ball. It’s mostly about desire and commitment to the act. Simply put, he’s soft.
I tend to agree with jjg. I just think he is soft. He isn’t really a banger. Rebounding is certainly skill, which coaches can help with. There is also that uncanny ability to know where and how ball is going to come off the rim that guys like Rodman had. Then there is the mindset and desire to get every board. Don’t think he has it.
@Zack
I think Smith just doesn’t have the weight or overall strength to hold his position. He is a pretty thin guy. Add in the shorter arms and you have a recipe for poorer rebounding.
His rebounding isn’t that bad. 7.5 per 36 minutes. It is almost as good as Lemarcus Aldridge, Okur, Sheed, Gasol. Better than Al Harrington, Boris Diaw, Bargnani.
Maybe he will follow the path of a Troy Murphy who improved dramatically from year 1 to year 2. Hard to judge these things. I think he will improve this year, but not a ton.
@zack, I think its rebounding skill. He doesn’t appear to box out at all. Doesn’t appear to have that mental toughness ala Evans who goes after every rebound. Funny we have very good rebounders in Sam and Evans yet Jason hasn’t learned anything from them. He needs to hit the weight room and fast.
@jjg
I disagree. Smith tends to go for every ball he can. He tends to hustle for loose balls. He isn’t soft imo. He isn’t afraid of contact. He just isn’t strong enough and doesn’t have a low center of gravity.
Let me add in that it’s also positioning. Smith may just not have a good sense of where to be on the defensive end. It always seems like the ball is bouncing away from where he is. If he has short arms that would explain things as well. I think he has plenty toughness, like Joe says he doesn’t seem to shy away from contact.
Joe, Agree, sheer strength isn’t his long suit either but his concentration on rebounding fundamentals isn’t consistent; shows lapses in execution as I recall. Can handle it at times, but doesn’t initiate, hold and enjoy contact as better rebounders do.
Morty, You’re right in that part of rebounding is knack, a developed sense of where the ball is coming off the rim.
I still say Jason is not NBA tough. Will be interesting to see if he shows growth with respect to rebounding come Oct. He reminds no one at this point of Rudy LaRusso or Tom Meschery.
Zack:
I’m with RRose, J Smith doesn’t box out, he seems to go straight for the ball, and it allows other smaller players to sneak by him, and doesn’t allow full effectiveness of stopping whatever big he is guarding from sliding quickly underneath to grab the offensive board.
I also like what (I think) Joe said…J Smith doesn’t understand how to use his body, or center of gravity yet. Part of it is that he’s soft, the other part is that he doesn’t have the proper footwork and balance to know how to cement his body to the floor and not be moved (things, thankfully, Elton Brand is a model example of).
@Iguodala contract:
He turns down the 10-11 million deal…has a great season, increasing his stock…then throws up a stinker in Detroit’s six game series. I think even though that WE think the stinker in Detroit means he stepped right back to the 10-11 range, doesn’t mean that HE thinks that. If I’m the Sixers GM, I immediately offer him a 5 year, 60 million deal with a sliding payscale. That way it looks like we’re giving him a slight pay raise from our last offer, without breaking the bank, and letting him know we’re committed to him.
If Iguodala rejects that, and really starts getting greedy in holding out for 13-14 million, then things get tricky on our end. I think fair price for him is 11-12 million…I’d be willing to pay 13 (although I don’t want to)…but a 14+ average per year would be really pushing it and not helping our payroll.
I crossed Eddie House off the shooters list, his agent says he won’t sign for the minimum and he has offers for more than that already.
RECENT SET OF EYES: Draft Express opines 7/13/08, LVSL Day 2: Jason Smith “needs to develop a mean streak to reach his potental…his aggressiveness leaves a lot to be desired..and it almost seems like he gives up after he makes a play, letting the ball go when he meets contact in the lane or allowing his man to score after blocking his shot.”
@jjg maybe it was his level of competition in college or what he was asked to do defensively. Its pretty obvious he doesn’t have a rebounders mentality. I believe he made comments about wanting to be like dirk. Unless he’s going to wake up one day with 3 pt range to his jumper he needs to be more like Jeff Foster and crash the boards hard.
He compliments what we have now with Brand and Spieghts, hopefully ,RRose, his 18 ft. range can increase.
Dannie, I was ready to suggest moving Iggy for a shooter after what you said last week [We were last in ft. perc. and 3pt. perc. last year] but instead did some legwork, so here goes; Sixers last year [71% ft. perc.]. top playoff teams [avg. 77 %] Swapping Carney[64%] for a sharpshooter should help, swapping Brand [74%] for Reggie [47%] should REALLY help. A.Miller shot 77%, down from his usual 80%, Iggy dropped 10 perc.points from the previous year [82% to 72%], his avg. for his career is 77%[pretty good]. L.Will. shot 78% [good]. Thad shot 74%, which he should improve on.Sam shot 71%, better than his career 68%. Willie shot 76% and Jason [66%], a number he should definitely improve significantly. So Dannie, all in all we are better than we shot it last year. As far as 3 pt. perc. we were 32% compared to about 37% for the playoff teams above us but we were 11th in f.g. percentage WITHOUT a low post threat. We were 23rd in offense but 7 th in defense. The most encouraging thing is we scored and gave up 96 ppg. while the champ [Boston] gave up 90 ppg. while scoring slightly better than us.
Oh god Suede I hope my comments didn’t suggested I wanted to move Iguodala. In fact I am waiting until we formally sign Iguodala to put out the post i am working on that compares Iguodala to nearly every SG, combo guard, and combo guard/forward of any significance in the NBA. Basically trying to provide as much info as possible to answer the 3 big questions we talk about all the time – Can Iguodala play SG, Should Igoudala play SG and should the Sixers trade him for a true shooter.
I will tell you guys how much of a dork I really am – I have a spreadsheet with like 60 guard/forward in the nba and all their 2007 stats. I have spreadsheets for all Sixers players and team stats. SAD (sports addiction disorder) I know.
Dannie, big props to releasing a detail of your basketball-geek-for-life habits…spreadsheets? I love it haha, and you are not alone!
While I don’t have spreadsheets mapping out every player (that gave me a good chuckle) I will say that for the last five years I have basically ignored watching all actual news on TV, and reading any actual real news content on the internet, in favor of religiously reading every bball related article at: ESPN, SI, Yahoo, Hoopshype, Hoopsworld, RealGM, Draftexpress, Collegehoopsnet, Rivals.com, SLAMonline, Euroleague.net, various team fan blogs like ReclinerGM, and various podcasts…pretty much on a daily basis.
Basketball dorks unite!
Dannie, wanted to sell myself on resigning Iggy. If we can!t win it all unless we shoot ft.!s and 3!s a lot better a scoring 2 would be the answer but I feel better. By the way, another good game tonight for J.Smith, Spieghts and J.Gordon.
Wouldn’t mind having our Swedish (or is it Finnish?) pick from last year back, Kaponnen, given our current lineup. David Thorpe describes him as a “Quicker, better shooting version of Steve Blake.”
Lets go with a sign and trade of Iggy for Michael Redd….
Any takers?
215 – Save that conversation for one more day. I will have a post up about Iguodala tonight which I am sure will draw all kinds of ideas like that.
You sound like Mike Missanelli with this sign and trade Iguodala for Michael Redd talk.
Yea thats where I heard it. Just wondering everyone’s thoughts on that deal.
I think I would pull the trigger real quick if I was Ed Stefanski on that if it was available.
Iggy won’t dissapoint. He is solid, and will shoot the three better this year b/c he will be less contested. Don’t do anything rash. Start him at 10.5 mill a year if you have to.
Ever heard of the phrase, the Grass is always greener? Well, Michael Redd is a very good shooter, but that is all. No way he does all that Iggy does on or off the court!
The only core I would part with is Sammy Dalembert. That is it. I still don’t like Sammy after all this time. He has improved but not really.
Sammy Dalembert for Mike Miller? Any takers? Minny might do it to get their much needed defensive-minded big.
We would probably be worse off after the trade, but whatever.
I’m new to this board…trying to follow the Philly teams out here in LA, it’s a delight to view the comments of real fans having intelligent discussions. I must say, though, that while it’s clear that the Sixers could use a shooter or two for depth through stretches of the game, the real benefit of having Brand is that he will provide Iggy and Williams, and even Thad, with much better looks, so there outside %’s will go up. I can assure you, lacking any other significant moves [which seem impossible] the 5 on the floor at the end of games will be 5 of the top 6 guys we have now [w/ Dalembert or Thad out depending on match-ups + possession], not some journeyman like Garrity or Jacobson.
One question, too — Didn’t the Sixers acquire a small trade exception in the Carney/Booth deal? Otherwise, how did it help their cap situation if they’re paying all of Booth’s and 2/3 of Carney’s salaries?
And, finally, is everyone watching Speights in Vegas? I know it’s just the summer league, but this guy looks like an NBA talent to me. Wouldn’t be surprised if Sixers eventually dangle Evans out there to a team that’s desperate for rebounding [as many are].
Offensively, Iguodala is ambitious whereas Redd is a natural (prior to last season, averaged healthy 25.4 & 26.7). Acquiring Redd would instantly improve team perimeter shooting and foul shooting – areas of serious need. Iggy fans will point to a wide disparity in defensive play, but Iguodala’s effectiveness there is a sporadic reality now as the Sixers – due to a talent vacuum after Iverson’s departure – have let this versatile player steer more, and more often than he should. He’s a piece, not a centerpiece; as is Redd. If a sign & trade were possible, I’d make the personnel switch. Miller, Brand & Redd – 3 solid veterans with whom to enter the playoffs–where poise is at a premium.
@JMK
No we don’t have the exception. We had to renounce it. More here…
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#20
We aren’t paying Booth/Carney directly. We sent Minny some cash that they can then use to pay for Booth/Carney. Cash in trades has no bearing on cap space.
Speights: Productive big in college with upside. Hard to go wrong there.
As for Evans, the Sixers have a logjam now at PF. He has a hefty contract. He won’t be easily moved.
Joe, thanks for clarifying about the trade exception. WRT to Evans, I know he has an onerous contract, but it seems that there are plenty of potential matches…equally tough contracts, perhaps, but better to fill the need the Sixers have — for example, Matt Carroll, Damon Jones, Vlad Radmonovic [that one, especially, as Evans would be decent replacement for Turiaf in Laker rotation] or even maybe Mo Pete, who looks like he’s getting squeezed out of Hornets rotation. Rebounder/defender who can’t shoot for a shooter who doesn’t really rebound or defend. Not perfect, but could help.
I would never do a Redd for Iggy trade.
“Iggy fans will point to a wide disparity in defensive play, but Iguodala’s effectiveness there is a sporadic reality now as the Sixers – due to a talent vacuum after Iverson’s departure – have let this versatile player steer more, and more often than he should.” jjg, you’re smarter than this statement.
Versatile players are invaluable in the NBA, when you put a one dimentional player on the floor it allows teams to game plan for him therefore making life difficult. Redd is a better shooter, much better at this point, than Iggy but the gap is closing and should continue to do so.
The intangibles that Iggy brings to the table can not be replaced with an extra 6 -8 points per game that Redd would bring.
dre, Check out comparitive stats of last season; think you’ll be surprised. In 2 more minutes, Iggy gives team merely 1.1 more rebounds, 1.4 more assists and 1.2 more steals than “one-dimensional” (a bit of a misnomer) Redd. I’ll take the established, pure shooter over those advantages; nothin’ like a quick, easy bucket to buttress a team psychologically (and extend a defense next time down). And I think a leadership tag on Iggy is misplaced; a leader doesn’t cry to refs, carp at teammates, or strain unsuccessfully come playoff time. Granted, he’s versatile, but so is Wal-Mart. The ‘intangibles’ idea re Iguodala, at least from my vantage point, is overdone.
jjg – I beg to differ regarding a minor point you made “a leader doesn’t cry to refs, carp at teammates” I think just about every major player/leader in the NBA does that with Kobe being the #1 culprit.
MJ may not have “cried” to refs rather massaged them the right way to get what he wanted and sometimes being more forceful, but he fought teammates in practice man, we are talking practice. As well as carping. And Jordan is my dude.
I thought Iguodala was an emerging leader, not quite there yet 100% but definitely headed in the right direction.
And…1.1 more rebounds, 1.4 more assists and, especially, 1.2 more steals is a SUBSTANTIAL difference in overall productivity in 2 more minutes of play!
Dannie, Fair enough – by present standards, set by the likes of star-trippin’ Bryant. But can you imagine Bill Russell or Jerry West , two great leaders by stellar example, publicly berating officials and/or teammates. Iguodala, an “emerging leader”? Am not convinced by what I’ve seen. How so?
JMKinLA, The capitalized ’substantial’ doesn’t fit those numbers when the comparison was between the purportedly multi-faceted leader, Iguodala, and the supposedly uni-dimensional one trick pony, Redd. We just have a difference of opinion on the two players and their respective value to a team.
jjg – I agree the evolution of players and team leaders in the NBA has without question changes in terms of style.
If I may ask what have you seen that turns you off to Iguodala as a leader? It seems like much of the focus hinges on the complaining about calls (which as far as I am concerned every player does to varying degrees *cough Tim Duncan aka greatest PF aka big ass baby *cough). What else? The glares, the figure pointing at teammates? I haven’t heard much public blaming of teammates by Iguodala.
Leaders are always stern and often times very critical of teammates depending on their leadership style. Have you watched much of Chris Paul play this past season? Look at how he “handles” his teammates especially Tyson Chandler when he screws up – the kid is like a little pit bull with a steak in his mouth.
But I think leaders and teammates adapt (Steve Kerr came back and asked and nailed that game winning jumper even after Jordan cracked him in practice). But in order for the teammates to want to adapt the “leader” has to be a proven star or at the very least proven his ability to get the job done himself (playoff performances are huge) and I think that is where Iguodala is lacking, IMO.
But, he is still only 24 and has 1 chance to prove himself under his belt and he failed (so did Kobe “AIR BALL(s)”).
From my perspective having gone to a bunch of games last year I’ve seen little signs of him growing as a leader as well as the negative stuff I think we all agree that he does sometimes. I have seen him take Lou Williams under his wing in both bad times and good times. He has stepped up in a bunch of regular season games. And his next step is doing it in the post-season to earn the respect needed to be a true leader.
Example of my own personal experience: Check my last bullet on this post.
Dannie, To respond to your question in short, my focus is his overall good yet spotty play and occasional questionable court demeanor. Gotta do it first yourself before judging others. Who is he at this point to ‘thumbs up’ or ‘thumbs down’ anyone? I’m not the only one who knows he has a ways to go…even though he’s got the gumption to expect a disproportionate contract, he’s never been selected as an All-Star. I appreciate your rather extensive reply yet remain in disagreement on the basic point of leadership worthiness.
Since there seems to be some extensive cap knowledge here, I have a question. Currently there is a cap hold of $9 million for Iguodala. If he takes the tender offer ($3.8 million I think I heard) and becomes unrestricted next year, does that mean we would have cap room to sign a player?? I think it is similar with WIlliams, who has a $3 million cap hold.
jjg –
Let’s agree to disagree on Iguodala’s leadership skill because if his teammates thinks of him as a leader then that’s good enough for me.
I still wouldn’t trade him unless we had no other choice. I feel the Sixers’ have given up on young talent too early in the past, Tim Thomas, Larry Hughes, Raja Bell to name a few (I know Larry Brown had something to do with it).
Why give up on a player that’s still getting better. He has yet to hit a plateau (like Sammy has).
Dre, On your first suggestion: done. Moving on, agree, they gave up early on Bell due to Larry’s aversion to youngsters. Anthony Parker too. Mario Ellie, forget who coached him here. Your last idea certainly has merit to consider. I agree that Iguodala can improve, and probably will.
Anthony Morrow is now crossed off the list. He was MVP of the Rocky Mountain Revue Summer League and was then signed by the Warriors. I told you guys Morrow was an NBA shooter and as an undrafted player to get signed to a contract before training camp is a testament to how good he is.
Looks like Luke Jackson played well also, and could be a shooter option for the Sixers if they were to look that way.
I think the Sixers should sign and trade Iggy and willie green to Sacrament for Kevin Martin. Martin is a great three point gunner and a prototypical shooting guard. This would let Young start at small forward.
Imagine:
PG- Andre Miller- 15- 17 ppg
SG- Kevin Martin- 25- 300 ppg
SF- Thaddeus Young- 15-20 ppg
PF- Elton Brand- 20-25 ppg
C- Samuel Dalembert- 10-15 ppg
And from the bench LouWill giving us an easy 15 ppg and Speights. How bout that for next season. Finals, I think yes!
Sixers sign Donyell Marshall. How in the world can Willie Green be on this team. If Donyell has anything left with him and Rush we are good to go.
Lets face it guys, we are heading towards a long rebuilding process at a team. Even if Elton Brand comes back and plays at his highest level, we are not a championship team – maybe a first round playoff team as the East is getting stronger. We need to invest in some very hard nose defensive minded players. This will get us back the fastest and this is what wins championships. So while I am hopeful that Brand makes a full recovery and can lead the franchise – this is just one piece of the puzzle.
Brian Raymond Callahan
Philadelphia, PA