The Sixers have finally traded Willie Green (and Jason Smith). Everyone (except JJG) rejoice.
Willie and Jason were traded to the New Orleans Hornets for Craig Brackins and Darius Songalia. This was first reported by Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter, followed by our slow ass Philadelphia media.
You can essentially look at this deal as Rod Thorn moving two expendable players for a 1st round draft pick (Brackins).
Here is Craig Brackins college profile.
At 6’10, 230 Brackins is another stretch power forward. His best year was his sophomore season where he averaged 20 and 11 on 47.5% shooting.
Here’s the thing, while he played like a stretch four, that doesn’t mean he should continue. He was a subpar three point shooter in college never shooting better than 31%.
This is due in large part because he isn’t considered a banger as a power forward. He hasn’t developed the body for that and is more of a finesse offensive player. So he likes to face up, shoot jumpers and try to use his quickness against slower bigs to score.
Comparing him to a current NBA player some have said a LaMarcus Aldridge type power forward. With his array of offensive moves and shots maybe even Antawan Jamison without the three-point range.
Mark it down – Rod Thorn’s first move as new Sixers President.
Hey who knows this could be one of those blah moves that turns into something. It’s not like we lost anything.
Nice move Thorn. Songaila’s salary ($4.8 mill) comes off the books at the end of the year, roughly equaling what Green + J Smith’s salaries would equal (about $5.3 mill combined), and we get a shot at seeing if Brackins can ball. I’m a big fan of GM’s that know how to make little tweak moves. You add up tiny moves like this over time, and it makes a difference for the franchise.
And WILLLLIE GREEEEN IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
…the other nice bonus to this move is that this opens up some legit playing time for my offensive man-crush Mr. Jodie Meeks. I think having the Lou Williams (good ball handling, slashing, quickness, drive & kick) and Meeks (3 pt shooting, midrange game, natural scorer) guard combo off the bench will give us a nice little punch when we need some scoring.
There was a logjam that has now been relieved in guards and PFs. However, Smith and Green were better defensively than Speights and Lou. But hopefully, this will open things up with Meeks and Speights can play the PF instead of C.
GO SIXERS!! NICE MOVE ROD AND ED!
I love this move!! Willie Green has been bad baggage for this team for too long. A shoot-first guard who can’t shoot. Jodie Meeks is the same type of player, only younger, quicker, and with a better shot. Now you can get Meeks on the floor more often.
With this trade, you get an expiring contract (Songaila) that will, at least for this season, give you more than Jason Smith ever would have – not to mention, he’s unreliable. And Craig Brackens is a nice project who will contribute on the boards and on the defense end. I saw him play some at Iowa State. He is ridiculously athletic (more so than Speights, maybe even more than Thad Young), and he has plenty of room to improve with not much being expected of him as the 12th man. I think down the line, he will eventually be a part of the regular rotation.
Here is how I see the team shaping up:
STARTERS
PG Jrue Holiday
SG Evan Turner
SF Andre Igoudala
PF Elton Brand
C Spencer Hawes
SUBS
G Lou Williams
SG Jodie Meeks
F Thaddeus Young
PF/C Marreese Speights
SF Andres Nocioni
PF Darius Songaila
PF/C Craig Brackens
Looks like an actual NBA team to me…
Rob - That’s not actually true.
We just acquired two PFs with only one going out. So unless they simply plan to not play Brackins or Songalia we still have quite a few players that are or could play PF…
Remember Warren Kidd– don’t forget about Tony Battie as well!
This trade pretty much puts us out of the hunt for Carmelo Anthony thus far, whether it be a 2 team deal or a 3 team deal!
Dannie- let me elaborate there. Smith and Speights kind of play the same game and both have been fighting more major minutes off the bench. But one hustles on both ends, while the other is mainly on offense. But you’re right, the Sixers do have a lot of players at PF.
Rob - First off we were never really in the hunt for Carmelo.
But this deal doesn’t exclude the sixers from being involved. The main pieces in all those deals rumored was Iguodala, one or more of our young players and expiring contracts which we still have.
Well, Rob, typically we can’t dress 13. The NBA limit for players allowed to dress for a game is 12, right? Who gets regularly deactivated? I’d prefer to see Brackins get some game action than Battie, but then again, I’m always in favor of the young guys…
Still though, gotta like any scenario where you get an expiring contract and a first-round pick for two tomato cans.
That’s true– but wow. This 15 man roster, including Battie and Kapono is interesting and probably some more changes might come. But Battie could be a great mentor in helping Speights, Brackins, and Hawes in getting down and dirty.
GO SIXERS!!
Brackins looks very interesting, like an Andrew Bynum kind of game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdelSuiYJk
Dannie, Contrary to your intro, my prayer’s been answered. I’m very happy: Willie Green has been freed from the ridiculous scapegoating of some of the fanbase and, also, from the limitations of the 76ers organization. May Willie continue to walk in faith, and prosper. He’s an earnest, unflashy player, and a contributor. I’m proud of him and wish him only the best. The Hornets just added a quality individual to their organization. GO WILLIE! BEST OF LUCK. AND THANK YOU.
JJG – With the Hornets having only Marcus Thornton and Marco Bellineli as the other guard options for SG and backup PG, Green’s defensive presence and toughness should be a nice gap-stop addition for them, I’m sure he’ll get plenty of burn.
I’m with you that he did get a lot of unnecessary scapegoating, but I think for many, like with Sammy D, he became a symbol of Sixers mediocrity since AI left. For every good defensive stop and tough play he had, he made another bone headed offensive play on the other end of the court, usually an atrocious looking contested shot or taking it 1 on 5 to the wrack and turning it over, stalling our offense. But best of luck to him in New Orleans.
…but all that said…WILLIE GREEN IS NO LONGER ON OUR TEAM!!!!!!
I don’t understand why Willie took as much heat as he did in Philly. He was a second round pick who had second round pick talent, and he played like it. He played to his potential (which isn’t saying much) and played hard. The fact that our woeful GMs couldn’t draft/trade for/sign someone better than him at the two in all of the years that he was here should have no bearing on Willie whatsoever. I’m not a Willie Green fan by any stretch of the imagination, I’ve just never understood the heat that he has taken here.
Anyway, on the trade: I like this trade, without a doubt, but it now seems to me that we have THREE project big men that are shoot first types with questionable defense. What I’ve seen and read about Brackens has lead me to believe that he’s just like Speights. Are there enough minutes to develop these guys? (Note: I just did the breakdown below and I think there are) Here’s how I see the rotation by the starter and their minutes, followed by the bench guys at that spot and their minutes:
Point Guard: 1. Jrue (30) 2. Lou (18)
2 Guard: 1. ET (25) 2. Lou (10) 3. Iggy (13)
Small Forward: 1. Iggy (25) 2. Thad (15) Nocioni (8)
Power Forward: 1. Brand (25) 2. Thad (10) 3. Speights (8) 4. Nocioni (5)
Center: 1. Hawes (20) 2. Speights (15) 3. Brackens (13)
I’m guessing Meeks and Songalia will be last on the bench, and Battie will most likely be inactive. If Speights doesn’t work hard on D and rebound, though, I wouldn’t be surprised if Collins gives a lot of his minutes to Songalia. Also, I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if Collins ended up not playing Lou at the 2 at all, and gave his minutes to Meeks.
Dave T, Bad comparison. Sam, fraud; Willie, genuine. You’re right though in the sense that they’re both ‘former regime’ recruits. But so is Iguodala. He, too, is an agent of mediocrity, despite the longstanding hype.
Don’t agree with overstated sentence 2 of paragraph 2, but comprehend the derogatory nature of such.
I thought of Brackins as “poor man!s version of Spieghts” on draft night. Effort and toughness issues along with a talented faceup game and ability to score the ball in many ways. It seems Collins wants bigs that can open the lane for our 3 amigos. Our front office MUST have confidence in our new coach getting effort out of Spieghts, Hawes and Brackins and getting them to buy in defensively. I like the fact another talented youngin has joined the team and the roster is balanced better. Songaila is soft but may play some highpost center if Elton is on the floor with him.
Jumpin, Willie shot the ball better last year and will have a job on somebody’ bench if he continues to do so. He was a good soldier who never was allowed to be what he is, a solid 15 to 20 minute a night guy because until this year we never had a solid s.g. . I still feel Jason will have a long career if his role is defined; is he a M.Bonner sniper or a energy guy off the bench. I will miss his solid screens and hope they didn!t give up on him too soon.
Crooked Man – I really don’t think Brackens is going to get much PT. This is the year we need to see what we want to do with Thad and Speights. They need all the time they can get both for our own benefit to develop their growth, and to showcase their talents enough so that their stock still rises across the league if we look to trade one of the two in the future. This directly effects Bracken’s minutes because I can’t see Thad or Speights getting under 25 minutes a game (which you did have them around in your breakdown).
But what you didn’t account for is that there is no way Brand will only get 25 mpg. He HAS to be playing 30+ minutes per given the enormous salary he is making and to give him one last chance to prove he’s got legit juice left in the tank, and will likely be in the 32-35 mpg range. He’s had two seasons now to fully recover from his injuries, and I’m sure Collins will want to kicks start Brand’s confidence by trusting him with a lot of minutes right away.
I also think Nocioni is going to log plenty of time. Doug Collins is going to love him. Dude is tough as nails, leaves it all out on the court, is not afraid to bang and hustles his ass off. aka: the second Collins senses Thad, Speights or Hawes being lazy or taking plays off on defense, they (hopefully) will be getting their butts benched, and we’ll probably go small ball with a frontcourt of Iguodala/Nocioni/Brand. An unorthodox move, but I think we’ll see this lineup a bunch in spurts when we need some energy and defense.
I like the move. Who knows what becomes of Brackens? But we knew what we had with Green and Smith. I like the move. Expiring contract and then someone that could end up being quite good if he puts it together. If he doesn’t, no biggie either.
Interesting Q&A with Collins: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/All_about_Doug_Collins.html
“I talked to Jrue Holiday today and I looked at him and said, ‘I have me a good point guard.’ …. I honestly believe that this kid is such a good kid, he’s such a hard worker, and he’s so pure — he’s pure — that I honestly believe that next year you’ll talk about him being one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA. I think you’ll speak about him in the same breath as Chris Paul, Darren Williams, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, and Jrue … because he can play both ends of the floor. He can disrupt you on one end. He’s unselfish. He’s a teammate. He makes the game easier for other people.”
No pressure Jrue
Wow, great find Pete. Those are some strong words.
…just finished reading the whole Fagen interview. I have to say, with all his TNT media experience and time away from the hardwood, Collins has really mastered what to say and how to say it when answering questions. He’s honest, forthright, to the point, confidence without being cocky, but realistic. He knows exactly how to spin a glass is half full attitude with every questionable aspect of our roster…I absolutely loved that interview and every nugget he says about how he hopes to use the players on our roster and find success. He was 100% spot on with every single point she brought up, I can’t speak enough about his attitude towards this team.
The question is…can he follow through with his actions? Time will tell.
Glad they finally freed up the wing players. Now send the project to the D League for awhile and buy out Songalia. Guess our front office forgot they had Tony Battie as well.
Dave T-
Yeah, it obviously matters what he does on the court, but like some commenter said over there, can you imagine Eddie Jordan giving an interview like that?
Dave T: Good points on my depth chart, especially about Brand’s minutes. However, I think that as the season progresses, if Brand rebounds as poorly as he did last year, his minutes will go down to around that 25 mark. Of course, for that to happen, someone else will have to be rebounding well, and I have no idea who that will be (hopefully Speights.)
Nocioni is absolutely a Collins kind of guy, and when they first traded for him I imagined him being one of the first guys off the bench, but with Iggy playing close to 40 minutes, and, as you said, this being a year to evaluate Thad, where are those minutes going to come from? Sure, he can also be used as a “stretch 4,” but considering that there’s a logjam there, too, Collins is certainly going to have his hands full trying to get everyone minutes.
Dannie, on your last point about this deal not excluding us from being out of the hunt (that we’re not really in) for Carmelo:
I think, if anything, this deal would actually give us better trade chips than we had. Before, we could have offered, for instance, Iggy (talented player) Green/Kopono (expiring contract) and picks, where now we could offer those things (sub Songalia for Green) and a prospect in Brackens. Denver would probably push hard to get Turner in a deal for Melo, but giving up Iggy and Turner for Melo would be extremely counter-productive.
So Collins is more upbeat, media-friendly and articulate than Mr. Jordan Who Came Questioningly From Washington (hardly a difficult standard to surpass; and why is Stefanski still employed?). Question remains, will stable of last year’s key players – Iguodala, Williams, Holiday, Young & Speights – gobble up his buckets of basketball oats during pre-season and suddenly become court-frisky. court-savvy and court-efficient? Talk is talk when the ledger is 0-0. Don’t look now, but there’s that pesky factor, live opponents, that often gets in the way.
Oops, I left out Brand from last year’s key players. Probably because I consider him washed up – at 252 lbs, or 232 or 272. A possibility: Collins, Snyder & he together channel some old Duke winning energy for a fast
individual start, but Elton comes be back to earth with other NBA plowhorses in short time.
Norman Rockwell Collins & additional half-dozen roster X factors, starting with Turner & Hawes, do add intrigue to coming season.
jjg-
yeah, that was more a “oh-my-god-Eddie-Jordan-was-such-a-weird-dude” statement than “oh-my-god-Collins-gives-good-interviews-were-gonna-be-awesome” statement.
The Sixers also invited Chris Quinn to training camp!
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/09/23/chris-quinn-going-to-camp-with-76ers/
It’s a decent backup for Lou if it works out.
I mean Holiday! oops
LOVE Chris Quinn (yes, because he went to Notre Dame and was one of the few ND basketball players that didn’t totally suck)
He’s the perfect Kevin Ollie type guy. A PG who doesn’t need to play but if people get hurt he can get in there, not turn the ball over and hit some jumpers.
Career 39% from 3. When he actually played in ’08, he had a 3.3-1 Ast/TO ratio.
Since I’m bored, here’s the list of ND players that DIDN’T SUCK, since I enrolled there in 2001. Dave T might be the only one that reads past this sentence.
Pete – What I actually like about the Chris Quinn signing is that we actually have three legitimate shooters on this team now instead of just one (Kapono, Meeks, Quinn). Quinn and Kapono will barely get off the pine, Meeks (my guy!) hopefully will get 10-12 minutes per, but it’s just nice to know that if we NEED a 3 point shot at the end of a game, we can toss a few guys out there that can actually hit it. As opposed to, say, Iguodala, Willie Green and Lou Williams.
I’m glad you put Tory Jackson up there in your list of fav’s from Notre Dame, I always liked his game. He and Ishmael Smith from Wake Forest I thought were real underrated PG’s on a national scale. When you started in 2001, was Pat Garrity a senior, or were he and Troy Murphy already in the league? Troy should have a big stat-season for New Jersey given that aside from Favors, he’s the only real PF on the roster and by default should log huge minutes.
Also, I’d be very curious to hear your thoughts on the total self destructing bomb that was the Notre Dame team for Harangody/Jackson/Mckalarney’s seasons during their junior and senior years. When they were soph’s they really seemed to gel and became national darlings…I didn’t see enough of them in the past two years to know what went wrong. They don’t seem like selfish me-first-hog-the-spotlight guys…what happened? Do you put the blame on Brey, or did defenses just figure out how to the Harangody/Mackalarney combo better?
Dave T-
Murphy left for the NBA when I was a senior in HS.
The reason I put Gody on the “sucked” list even though he holds a million records, is the same reason why those teams underachieved. Gody thought he was unstoppable and refused to adapt his game to the team. He would hog the ball, not play defense, take HORRIBLE shots when players were wide open, started jacking up 3′s and was just completely inefficient.
That’s why we played so well without him last year. Beat Pitt, Uconn and Gtown 3 straight. When he came back, we didn’t play as well.
Pete – I didn’t realize he sunk to that low…especially the shooting 3′s, jesus. Sounds like he’ll be a good fit for the C’s. If the six headed all-star monster of KG, Pierce, Ray, Shaq, Jermaine and Rondo can’t put Harangody in his place, no one can.
As Bill Simmons has mentioned, it’ll be fun seeing Harangody carry Scalabrine’s torch of continuing the token ugly-red-headed-white-guy tradition on the Celtics.
Clumsy Collins’ ‘on practice court’ communication of trade to Willie Green - with McKie, other players and Green’s 10 yr. old son in attendance – was observed bad decision number 1 of his new coaching reign. If he’s so smart, why did that embarrassment happen? The 7 yr. Sixer vet deserved
initial privacy on the news. Brought to mind Cheeks’ being informed of his trade while sitting in car by a reaction-seeking local newsman and rolling camera. I hope Collins’ in-game adjustments are better, more poised, as the season unfolds.
Brings to mind his frantic sideline coaching style of early days. A botched handling.
I hope the Melo trade goes through because I wasn!t looking forward to dealing with a Lopez/ Favors combo for the next 10 years. I would rather have Favors, Harris and the cap room and #1 pick than Melo.
Collins made interesting comments about Turner not being rushed into playing off the ball; this offense will be interesting and the ball better move quickly because teams will pack it in and who takes the catch and shoot jumpers?
A potential Melo for Iguodala deal has resurfaced!
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Sixers_in_talks_for_Carmelo_Anthony_Western_exec_says.html
Even the Denver Post is talking about it!
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16180436?source=rss&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter
RealRob – Just saw the same thing and rushed over here to see if anyone had other info about it. Hoopshype and RealGM both had it as their major news piece headliner, one having used the Denver Post article, the other using Philly Daily News.
ESPN’s Marc Stein also reported the same in his latest update. One big thing worth mentioning is that he wrote that “according to sources” Melo would not be agreeing to sign an extension with the Sixers if traded there. Which likely means, it aint happening.
Kinda exciting to see us at least making headlines getting involved in the mix, but I sincerely doubt it goes through.
…CBS Sports has reported the Sixers rumor as well, along with ESPN.
What I think will happen – I think Melo is going to be traded to NYC. NYC, right now, can present 2 of the 3 requirements any team would want in return for a superstar:
-Talented young players: Danilo Gallinari & Anthony Randolph
-Expiring contract/cap space: Eddie Curry’s contract, around $11 mill I think
…meaning the only thing they are missing is a 1st round pick or two. I think given how bad Melo seems to want to play in NY (according to past reports) and how badly NY obviously would want to get him, I can see NYC swooping in with some sort of 3 team trade where they acquire 1st round picks for smaller pieces (Chandler or Azubuike maybe) & cash and flips them to the Nuggets along with Gallinari and Randolph.
How awkward will it be for Denver if they hold their media day and Melo shows up to camp without any of this resolved? Yikes.
We would need to give up Iggy, Jrue a 1st rounder or Turner to sniff Melo. That seems stiff to me.
phillyfan: I don’t think we’d have to give up Jrue or Turner. Denver already has a great starting point guard, as well as their future point guard. If you look at what Denver was likely going to get in that 4-way trade that was rumored, I don’t think that it’s any better than what we could offer. AK-47 is a solid contributorbut one who is making more than double what he’s worth, is constantly injured, and whose contract is expiring at the end of the year, just like Anthony’s. We obviously can’t offer a Derrick Favors, but a combination of Iguodala, an expiring 6ish million dollar contract (Kopono) and a prospect like Brackens, along with a pick, to me trumps what they would have gotten in that 4-way trade.
That is the major road block right there if Melo does not sign the extension. Either way, I like the way this team is built or building. Rod Thorn and Doug Collins’ impact is certainly there!
Melo for Iggy. Big time scorer (24.7 career) for big time bricker (15.9 career). What’s not to like?
Favors for Iggy. Possible big time big man for medium time redundant SF. Again, what’s not to like?
JJG – Three big things not to like with Melo. Namely: he’s a crappy defender, isn’t exactly Mr. gets-his-teammates-involved, and never attacks the glass with any kind of tenacity, resulting in him being a more sub-par rebounder than he should be. And until the last two years, his shot selection was pretty suspect, but his game has really rounded into form and he’s come into his own the past two seasons. I’m in the “no way the Bulls should give up Noah to get Melo” camp exactly for the above reasons.
But obviously for the Sixers, Melo would be an enormous acquisition, well worth the Iguodala trade, and I think Jrue/Turner/Brand/rest of the gang would be nice pieces to grow alongside him.
Dave T, “Crappy defender” = typical NBA defender, until it matters. Ain’t bad when he applies. ”Isn’t exactly Mr. gets-his-teammates-involved’ = perfect! want my shooter shooting, a lot, especially on this Sixers squad missing reliable go-to option.
Right on jjg – if we could get Favors or Melo for Iggy it would be a heist.
What I want to know if who in the league “covets” Iggy as I saw one article put it when they mentioned that Denver has coveted Iggy for a long time. They need a new talent evaluator.
Phillyfan – Many teams would covet an athletic, top 6-7 SF in the league that is a good defender, willing passer, can run the floor with the best of them, very good slasher, and can get to the free throw line.
Andre Iguodala is a good basketball player. People talk about him on here sometimes like he’s this washed up bum, or a talent-less hack. The guy can play, he’s just completely ill-suited to be the #1 scoring option on any team, which is the role he’s been forced to take on since we traded AI. If he’s the 3rd best guy on any team, where he can concentrate more on his versatility, he’d be a great acquisition for anybody.
And yes, he’s overpaid, but only enormously so in the last two years of his contract. The first 3 years, when making around $12-$13 mill…he is still overpaid, yes, but nothing so outlandish as to trash the guy. I’m sick of people dogging Iguodala. And trust me, I’m SICK of the guy when he hoists of jumpers as if he thinks he’s Rip Hamilton…but I believe he’s going to cut down the J’s under Collin’s tutelage and we’re going to see a much more efficient player this season.
Might as well stop with the Iguodala for Melo talk as that rumor has been refuted as false.
We did not offer Iguodala. We offered Turner, Thad and Kapono.
Source?
If true, skimpy serving for a player of Anthony’s caliber; offer lacked seriousness. Turner, Thad and Kapono: an unknown plebe, an undecorated veteran and an AWOL recruit for a Lieutenant Colonel.
I watched the discussion about the Melo stuff on ESPN and Chris Broussard reported to the contrary that the Sixers had not offered Iguodala but the package in the quote above.
JJG – While Denver has expressed an interest in Iguodala it’s also been reported that they want cap flexibility, a cheap, good young player and draft picks. Which is exactly what the Sixers offered.
Thanks, Dannie. Good stuff. I would think Denver wants the best grab it can get for both ’10-’11 performance and down the line. It’ll be interesting to see how things pan out.
JJG – I don’t think anyone…you, me, Ujiri, Stefanski or Thorn…can honestly say whether Denver would be getting a better deal with Favors + draft picks alone, or E Turner, Thad and draft picks alone (obviously Kirilenko’s expiring salary is far more than Kapono’s). We’ve seen far more of what Evan Turner has the ability to do over the course of his career in college than Favors, and all the doom and gloom against E Turner is because of one lousy training camp, which may turn out to mean absolutely nothing if he has a solid rookie year. And for all we know, Thad may well be a player that would just explode on the scene with a new team if they all the sudden threw gobs of SF 35+ mpg at him and he had a fresh start.
I always like your comments JJG, so if I sound grumpy I don’t mean to be coming after you, and it’s just because I had a long work night…just throwing it out there that I think Favors is as much as an “unknown plebe” as our own Mr. Turner, and I think it’s laughable that Denver is satisfied with acquiring one young, raw, unproven big and two mid 1st round draft picks in exchange for a top 7-8 NBA player.
Dave T: I whole heartedly agree. I have absolutely no idea where this overwhelming certainty that Favors will be a star stems from. He played one year in college, where he was up and down, is, by all accounts, quite unpolished offensively, and had as bad a summer league as ET did. Realistically speaking, he’s just as likely to be Kwame Brown as he is Dwight Howard.
Derrick Favors, “realistically speaking, he’s just as likely to be Kwame Brown” - I don’t think so. He’s clearly a better athlete and his prospects are bright and promising:
nbadraft.net player comparison: Al Horford. “Explosive athlete w/unique combination of power and quickness” … “Possesses an extraordinary wingspan … “Tremendous leaping ability … “Runs the floor like a gazelle showing great speed from baseline to baseline” … “Finishes w/power around the rim – a dunking machine” … “A shot blocking menace” … “Not a boastful personality but rather allows his game to do the talking” … “Excellent student and quick learner”
dimemag.com player comparisons: a defensive-minded Amar’e Stoudemire. Emeka Okafor and Antonio McDyess. “Athleticism: Some could argue that Favors is the best athlete in this Draft. His combination of speed, jumping ability and size reminds Georgians of Dwight Howard and Josh Smith from back when they were in high school. Grade: A” … “Fundamentals – Grade: B-” … “NBA Readiness – Grade: B” … “Potential – Grade: A”
Kwame is built like a Redwood but lacked the passion and inner fire that sculpts great players. Favors’ future will easily surpass the low bar Brown set.
Tom Moore saying on depressedfan that when let in to watch the first team was Hawes, Brand, Young, Iggy and Jrue with Turner running p.g. with 2nd unit. Our coach promised a slow approach with Turner, I guess he wasn!t kidding.
Suede – Interesting about the 1st vs. 2nd unit. Who knows if thatll be the actual starting lineup that is used, but I had simply assumed Thad would be coming off the bench. I kinda like the idea of Turner playing backup PG with the second unit, having the ball in his hands like that.
In the Fegan article Pete posted earlier, Doug Collins made a point of mentioning how well Evan Turner & Lou Williams played together in reverse roles…Turner as the PG and Lou Williams off the ball as a scorer, so maybe we’ll be seeing those two as the 6th and 7th men in games for the guard spots.
JJG – Listing what draft websites compare a 19 year old player to is pretty meaningless. People do that with near every lottery player that comes out, including Kwame Brown, Eddie Curry, etc. Just because a website says “player xyz has the potential to be Al Horford,” or “player xyz is the most athletic in his class”…doesn’t really mean anything. The way draft websites and recruiting websites talk about each of the top incoming freshman to college teams youd think they are all the next MJ’s, Kobe’s, Barkley’s and Ewing’s. A quarter of them wind up being amazing and worth the hype. A quarter turn out to be real good, but not studs. A quarter turn out to be good, but take 3-4 years to get there and come into their own. And a quarter wind up being ridiculously overhyped because people fall in love with their athleticism and bodies and ignore the fact they don’t know how to play ball.
All I’m saying is…we don’t know. No one saw enough of anything at G-Tech to be able to make these outlandish predictions, IMO. I’m sure Favors will turn out to be a fine player, and damn I’d love to have him on the Sixers, but for what he’s actually SHOWN with his one year at G-Tech, all I’m saying is he’s very raw, unpolished, and has an awful lot of work to do. Lots of players have great athleticism…putting it together on the basketball court and understanding the game are far more important though and a different ballgame.
Dave T, It’s only meaningless if you dismiss the intelligence gleaned from others’ observation and inquiry. Do assessments prove to be erroneous sometimes? – sure. I’d say more often than not, the capsules give you at least a sense of the player that you haven’t witnessed.
The players to whom he is being compared – Howard, Smith, Horford, Stoudemire, Okafor, McDyess – are/have been significant players on their respective teams and their athletic ways have been key to their production. Those comparisons (and the viewing of video footage) allow me to project Favors beyond the Kwame line (6.7 ppg & 5.4 rpg). How far, time will tell. I like him already, and I’ve never seen him play live.
By the way, am thinking of starting an NBA Draft scouting service and have tossed a few names around: Blind Audacity (“we promise opinions from the jump”), Baskets By The Bushel (“give ‘em the pill; he’ll pay the bill”), Fragmentary-Americans Coalition (“no sieves served before their time”) and Starwatch 5 (“where your deadlines are immaterial”). I’ll let ya know when I’m up and running.
‘im, not ‘em, i.e., him, not them … spelling is crucial in marketing
JJG – I guess my thing is that I wouldn’t ever form opinions on a player unless I’ve seen him play in 3-4 actual whole games. I just would never trust a description of someone else summing up a guy and not actually seeing him in a game…I would never ever trust media sources because, just like we the posters on here have such different views on all the Sixers players, media sources are comprised of ten zillion different individuals with completely different perspectives. Some might know their stuff, some not…or some might really know their stuff but be off on a particular player. I love hitting up basketball analysts for their opinions on players after I’ve had a chance to check out said player in a bunch of games, because then I can compare my view to their own. But personally, I just don’t like relying on what they say without my own eye-witness account to go with it.
And video footage, especially if on youtube, has a natural subjective bias in that they tend to be a highlight reel of what a player does right. You can barely tell any nuances of a player’s game from video highlights of them scoring, hitting shots or making nice drives and dunks…there isn’t any context of the actual situation the play was made within the game, the timing of it, how he was reading other players on the floor, etc. That stuff is great for entertainment value as a fan, but IMO completely fails to serve as any kind of legitimate analysis of a player’s skill.
That said, I will greatly look forward to your “Blind Audacity” NBA scouting service haha.
Opening camp video footage & commentary from Kate Fegan:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/Sports_Video_SIXERS.html
Nice nugget from the Fegan article:
“At the end of practice, Collins had the team do a conditioning/shooting drill that lasts 4 minutes. The first time through, it was a little sloppy, a lot of missed jumpers, and the team didn’t hit the correct number. Collins had them do it again and the reaction was much different than in past years. In the past, the team would certainly go through the drill again, but this time there was a level of communication and discussion that hasn’t been seen. It’s early, but there’s some ownership already within this team. Considering how last year went down, this seems important.”
I like Kate Fagan’s insightful writing, but she’s shown a strong pro-Collins slant in her work recently. I guess that’s a natural reaction (a rhetorical sigh of relief) to having covered Coach Quirky and Team Despond & Quirky throughout last season. What elevates her as a writer is a cool objectivity and her willingness to disseminate her observations, whether they’re positive, neutral or negative in message and tone. I hope as the season evolves she resumes her ‘pulling no punches’ style. A rare fine basketball scribe, but a little ga-ga over Dougie so far IMO.
DaveT., thanks for the link; Jumpin, I love Kate’s writing also and think with all the good vibes this summer that she, like most of us, is happy to see possible progress with this team. I feel Thorn AND Collins will work well and any negativity will be focused on the players that don!t give effort this year.
suede, Yeah, I think now is the grace period. On your concluding sentence – that would be a two good developments.
Elton Brand has sworn off Twizzlers. Andre Iguodala compares Steve Hawes to Peyton Manning. Your two veteran leaders, folks.
I think I’m going to like this kid. What a bold interview!
http://www.nba.com/sixers/video/2010/09/30/brackins100930mov-1428247/index.html
(From DeepSixer blog):
Thaddeus Young as only a small forward. Collins said today he does not want to play Young at the power forward.
“I’m not going to do that right now because I want him to think as a three,” Collins explained. “I told our big guys, ‘I do not want to have to go to a small lineup right now so you have to rebound and defend your position so you don’t make me want to tinker around and do that.’”
Dannie – Any new columns coming up for the Sixers preseason games?
Dave T – I’ll write something after each game. Sucks that they aren’t being televised. I’ll have to settle for Miami vs. Detroit on NBATV.
Dannie – Pete gave out this link a while ago, I’ve always had good luck with it. I’m watching Miami on it right now:
http://channelsurfing.net/
Dave T – Yeah I know the site. I don’t tend to watch TV online, not my thing.