Based on what I’ve been reading last night and into this morning, it appears as though Phillies’ fans, Yankees’ fans and many media members have completely forgotten that this is a 7-games series.
Don’t get me wrong – the Game 1 win was huge (11 of the last 12 World Series have been won by the Game 1 winner), BUT there is a tremendous amount of work left to be done, and it won’t be easy.
I know from my perspective, hearing Yankees’ fans arrogant remarks and Media members clueless remarks about the dominance of their team made last night seem like we won the whole series, because we shut them all up in one fell swoop, but obviously that wasn’t the case.
First – here are my quick thoughts on Game 1
- My favorite Cliff Lee stat from last night – “And, most amazing of all, he became the first pitcher ever — yeah, ever — to unfurl a 10-strikeout, no-walk game in a World Series start in which he allowed no earned runs. In other words, Bob Gibson never did that. Koufax never did that. Curt Schilling never did that. But now Cliff Lee has done it. Against the Yankees. In Yankee Stadium.”
- The most promising thing for me was the offense didn’t look the slightest bit rusty. In fact, they looked sharp and well-rested.
- The Yankees middle-relief is really not very good. At all. Robertson? Bruney? Coke? Give me a break. We need to get their starters out of there (like we did last night) and feast on these guys.
- Someone should probably inform that Yankees’ fans that that was a World Series game, and they should get fired up and not leave early.
- I hope that A-Rod’s 3 strikeout performance in his first World Series game gets in his head a bit.
- I also hope “Jeter-cam” made it’s final appearance last night. We are up 6-0 and they are showing Jeter standing at his position and giving the pitcher permission to throw. Jeter is a great talent, but like Tim Tebow, he does a lot of pointless stuff to point out how hard he’s trying.
- Jimmy Rollins’ fake-out double play was one of the most brilliant defensive plays I’ve ever seen. Matsui (and Tim McCarver) had no clue what was going on. Whenever the umps have to have a conference because they have no idea what you just did – it’s pretty good.
And – here’s what I’m looking at in Game 2
- I’m not expecting Pedro to hurl a gem like he did against the Dodgers, but we need a good 6 innings out of him. Risky move by Charlie, but I think it was the right one.
- A.J. Burnett is erratic and easily rattled. He can also be dominant. We need to work counts like we did with CC. We also need our lefties to hit a bomb or two off of him.
- Speaking of lefties, I’m probably in minority here, but I start Ben Francisco in LF again. I think he’s just as likely to hit off of Burnett as Dobbs and Stairs (who can’t really hit off anyone), and I’m all about upgrading defense whenever we can. We’ll see what Charlie does.
- All the pressure is on the Yankees tonight, we already got our split. Hopefully we come out relaxed, Burnett comes out uptight, and we take a huge lead going home.
Once again – this will be the place to talk about Game 2 before, during and after. GO PHILS!
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phillyfan,
re: post #124 about Mariano Rivera from game 1 chat
I have all the respect in the world for him. I think he is the greatest relief pitcher in the history of the game. Not saying we can’t hit/beat him, but he has shut down a lot of hitters over a lot of years, all on 1 pitch no less, so it will be difficult. We might get to him once, but I wouldn’t expect to see 2 or 3 comebacks against him. Avoidance (read: get ahead early in games and stay ahead so he stays on the bench) is in our best interest.
Here are the numbers of our current players against Rivera:
Werth: 0-1 (1so)
Victorino: 0-2
Utley: 1-1
Stairs: 2-14 (4so)
Rollins: 0-1
Ibanez: 2-16 (2bb, 5so)
Howard: 0-3
Dobbs: 1-3 (2so)
Bako: 1-3
BTW, I’ve been checking in on the Yankees blog, Blogging The Bombers, to see what the other side has to say. I’ve seen comments from a phillyfan22. Is that you? If so, keep up the good work over there.
That was a fun game to be watching in a bar in NY with 95% Yankees fans. Weirdest thing ever was I was maybe 1 mile from yankees stadium and it never rained where I was yet it rained the entire game in the Bronx. Getting on the subway was fun since I was on the line that goes to Yankees Stadium with all the fans who left early reaching the stop I took to get home. They all looked so demoralized and then there I was in my Utley t-shirt. I still can’t believe people left that early. If we’re up 3-2, will anyone show up for Game 6?
Ken Bland,
re: post #135 from game 1 chat about Cliff Lee signing with the Yankees when he becomes a free agent.
I found this comment (#22–the comments are not numbered)on the Yankees blog, Blogging The Bombers:
ABronxDynasty
October 29, 2009 8:20 AM
Phillyfan22 – Hank & Hal both were also admiring the game last night.
Admiring how good Lee will look in pinstripes to go along with with CC after his option yr
You were on the money, my friend
I don’t like a continuous stream of baseball in cold, dreary weather. Takes some of the fun out of the proceedings. Starting the WS on Oct. 28th is a scheduling absurdity dictated by greed. THIS IS NOT BASEBALL SEASON. If MLB insists it is, they should play the games in Puerto Rico every year.
The most promising thing for me was the offense didn’t look the slightest bit rusty. In fact, they looked sharp and well-rested.
That was the biggest thing for me too, Pete. We had lots of good ABs, showed patience, worked the count, made their pitchers work, and ended up either forcing them into having to throw us a strike or capitalizing on their mistakes.
Everybody looked focused and determined, which is a great sign. They know what they need to do and there will be no lapses, I’m sure. Even though they did not win the series last night, they did send quite a message.
From what I read coming into the series, I got the impression that the Yankees (or at least their fans and the media) felt like they would ride CC to the title. Now that it doesn’t appear that Plan A is going to work (I know that CC could still pitch 2 more games in the series and things could change), the pressure is on the others (like Burnett, Pettitte, and possibly Gaudin), who will need to start the other 4 games, to step up.
BTW, I’m focusing on the starting pitching because I expect that our offense should at least be able to stand toe-to-toe with the Yanks, if not surpass it, and, based on what I saw last night (as you said, Pete), their relievers don’t look all that formidable, so our bullpen should also be able to at least match theirs (other than Rivera).
Even before Chase hit the HR, I was telling my 10 year old son that this AB was already a success, anytime you can force the pitcher to throw 7 or more pitches, you’ve won. I heard somewhere that something like 23% of all of C.C.’s pitches were to Chase, 1/9 = 11% so 23% would be massive.
Pete, read what you wrote about this being a 7-game-series and I couldn’t agree more. Just remember the ‘96 series. The Braves came into Yankee Stadium and took the first two games. Then they went back to Atlanta and the Yanks took the next four in a row. Girardi, Jeter and Petite were on that team.
Honestly, I’m sick and tired of all the shit about Yankee fans and the media. You think Rollins and Cliff Lee give a damn about any of that? Its all about the players on the field and we still need to win three more there, not in the papers.
If opposing pitchers continue to tip-toe around Phillies batters like each is Babe Ruth, it’s game over, lights out. Prior to game 1, Sabathia said he was gonna pound the strike zone. 20-pitch 1st inning made a liar out of him quickly. While Phils’ line-up is imposing, opposing pitchers need to rely on their eight able & willing friends, while also engaging in hurling combat with a will-probably-be-scathed but ultimate warrior mentality. It’s the only way to exterminate the Phillies.
Is throwing strikes that difficult nowadays?
I have to agree with you on Francisco in LF. Like I said last night: “Dobbs hits like Feliz and fields like me” No way you start him in a WS game over Pedro or Francisco.
Dobbs, iffy outfielder, may be a fine bullpen catcher in the future. Gotta keep him around as they don’t grow on trees. Irish Mike Ryan caught balls dropped from helicopters better than anyone.
jjg-
I honestly don’t think power pitching can get it done against the Phillies. You saw it in the first two rounds against the Rockies (Jiminez) and the Dodgers (Kershaw). Of course there was the Padilla game, but I doubt anyone could have hit Padilla consistently with the way he was dealing that day. Sabathia is just another power pitcher that has to hit the edges with the fastball/changeup in order to be effective. Once you start missing the corners against the Phillies lineup, you’re in for a high pitch count (usually high ER) game. Also, I can barely remember him throwing his curveball for strikes, only three instances stick out for me. I think another power pitcher, Burnett, could have big trouble against the Phillies lefties in the lineup tonight.
From Peter Gamons’ blog today:
“Jimmy Rollins went on the Jay Leno Show and predicted the Phillies will win the World Series. He was made to be a villain in a tabloid front page, and fans chanted obscenities at him Wednesday night. First of all, the old lockerroom bulletin board clichés are just baloney. Rollins brings an attitude and an edge and loves the big stage. And, in so doing, he plays the New York fans and media for fools. It’s comical.”
Just awesome.
At least Rob Neyer can poke fun at himself. From his article, Kneejerk Reactions: Game 1, on espn.com:
Goat: Rob Neyer. How could that idiot predict an easy World Series for the Yankees?
found this funny from a Keith Law chat today…
Kevin (Washington DC)
With each passing start, how atrocious does Cleveland’s “haul” for Cliff Lee look?
Klaw(1:05 PM)
When I heard Lee say post-game that he’s never been nervous before a big-league start, all I could think of was Carlos “The Human Panic Attack” Carrasco.
Interesting, it looks like Girardi is benching Swisher
THE BOOK doesn’t think it’s a good move…
“He finally benched Swisher and is going to start Hairston in RF tonight. How much will that cost? Hairston is probably a better fielder and much worse hitter, especially with a RH pitcher starting in Pedro. “
Girardi is also using Molina behind the plate instead of Posada, which is another significant downgrade offensively.
Todd Zolecki provided a link to an article in The Onion. It’s a funny piece, so I’m posting the entire thing below:
PHILADELPHIA—The last time the Philadelphia Phillies brought a World Series title back to the City of Brotherly Love, the nation’s financial sector was in complete ruin, the cost of a gallon of milk was only $2.74, fans watched the Fall Classic while huddled around their slightly-less-streamlined high-definition television sets, and Philadelphia slugger Ryan Howard was just 28 years old.
This week Howard, 29, hopes to lead the Phillies to their first World Series championship in more than 360 long days and end a title drought that has been punctuated by several embarrassing losses, including a 2009 opening-day defeat by the Atlanta Braves and a June loss to the Atlanta Braves. During its infamous dry spell, the team has also come up short twice, winning both an NLDS and an NLCS title but having absolutely no World Series ring to show for it.
To put into perspective just how long the Phillies have gone without a championship, the earth has almost made one full orbit of the sun since the franchise last paraded through downtown Philadelphia holding the famed Commissioner’s Trophy.
“We have a good group of guys this year, and if we block out all the stuff about how we haven’t won a World Series in more than 5,000 waking hours, we’ll be fine.” Howard said. “Frankly, I’m tired of all that talk. Yes, I know Michael Jackson was still alive the last time we won, and I know Boston Legal was gearing up for its final episode. But look, when the umpire says ‘Play ball,’ none of that matters.”
“After 364 days of constantly coming up short, I think this is finally our year,” Howard added.
According to Phillies manager Charlie Manuel, if his players get wrapped up in the fact that they haven’t raised a World Series banner since April 5, 2009, they’ll never be able to play to the maximum of their ability against the New York Yankees. The veteran manager admitted, however, that going nearly 52 straight weeks without a championship is bound to shake any team’s confidence.
“The bottom line is we’re a pretty inexperienced team, and for many of these young players, this will be the first time they’ve been to the World Series in a year.” Manuel said. “A lot has changed in that time. If you would have told me last October that this country would elect a black president before the Philadelphia Phillies made it back to the World Series, I would have laughed in your face.”
While Philadelphia players admitted the 11-month championship-winless streak has been difficult for them personally, most agreed that it’s the fans who’ve suffered most, enduring more than 500,000 minutes without a World Series victory.
“Our fans are incredible,” said left fielder Raul Ibanez, who was brought to the Phillies during the offseason in the hopes that he could help Philadelphia finally get back on the winning track. “If I were them, I would have given up on us weeks ago, after we lost our 69th game and failed to win the National League East by more than 10 [games]. But they stuck with us.”
Though the Philly faithful are understandably disappointed with their team’s title drought, many believe this will be the season when the team breaks the so-called Curse of 1981—the year in which the Phillies failed to follow up their 1980 championship season with a World Series victory.
“I guess part of me feels like the long wait will make a title all the more special,” season-ticket holder Mike Oliver said. “And even though I don’t like to compare teams, this Philly squad feels similar to the one who beat the Rays back in the day. They had guys like Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Jamie Moyer—guys who could really play the game and knew how to win; not like today’s players.”
“Man, whatever happened to Jamie Moyer?” Oliver added. “He’s got to be dead by now.”
“Truthfully, I never thought I would live to see the Phillies get to another World Series,” longtime fan David Oswald said. “When I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer last November, the doctor only gave me eight months.”
Dobbs has the flu apparently – GET HIM AWAY FROM THE TEAM! (I’m sure they are)
Also – Stairs is batting 7th tonight… maybe he can get his first hit since mid-September!
Adam, Both power guys are young and learning. Jiminez was good for 5 or 6 and Kershaw for 4, then they lost focus/control (Kershaw) or stamina (Jimenez). Sabathia is a different story. For all his size and all the hype that accompanies him, he’s disappointed as a premier pitcher in playoff games vs. Phillies, this season (though he pitched decently last night) & last. Finesse is a shampoo. Fire – in the arm and in the belly - is a great moundsman’s main ingredient. Haven’t see it in him to the degree that I expected. Phils are in his head. If opposing managers were smart and could stand the heat, they’d throw an accurate no-name at Phillies. Usually have difficulty against them.
or a sinker ball pitcher, we’re a fly ball hitting team no doubt.
Good inning. He made it out of the first, we may have something to be excited about…
There it is, long time coming!
Matt Stairs come through - Everybody hits WooHooooo (except Feliz)
Pete,
Do you see us resigning Feliz? If not who is our third baseman next season?
I think we have to resign Feliz unless we are willing to pay for a better bat (which we probably don’t need) with probably a drop in defense.
i’m pretty sure we have an option for him
man… those are pitches howard MUST kill
Feliz has a club option for 2010. They should resign him and then go after Rolen (unless we have a farm hand Reuben and Charlie have confidence in). Rolen’s deal is up at the end of next season and should still have at least 3 years left in the tank and probably won’t draw any big money suitors.
Pedro through three. Has given up some loud outs but the chilly air and his inability to break 90 might be keeping him in the park. So far so good, would like to see a little more offensively. Burnett’s curve ball has been good and his inside fastballs are really challenging the lefties. Feels a lot like last night’s game. Doubt we’ll see the Yankees scoreless much longer though.
95 on the fastball, 77 on the off speed stuff. Burnett’s got a lot to change up off of with that kind of velocity difference.
Damnit! You gotta be kidding me!
oh well, burnett WAS looking kinda wild that inning, just gotta get through this bottom half right here with the bats comin up
Can someone explain to me why we continue to start and stop with our base stealers on first? What’s with the hesitation?
Werth got picked off because he actually got a GREAT jumpand was at least a third of the way to 2nd before the ball reached the plate. That would have been an easy steal if he just followed through.
Starting and stopping is pissing me off.
So much for keeping him in the park…
I think we’re going to need 4 innings out of the bullpen. Pedro’s close to 80 pitches through 4. I think he’ll get through the 5th and they’ll have to see where he is in the lineup. Hasn’t looked as good as the LA start. I guess Happ’s your guy for the 6th, Park in the 7th. Madson 8th and Lidge 9th. Thats optimistic and a long way off still…
I can’t believe Charlie isn’t telling them to layoff the first pitch…we need to get to their bullpen and Burnett’s pitch count is getting up there…what a terrible at-bat by Shane….
Two things – this feels alot like that Game 2 against the Dodgers, we need some key hits
and
anybody feel like this is a must win for the Phils? I don’t like are chances with Hamels and Blanton.
Offense looks like complete shit right now. They have been undisciplined on the breaking balls that don’t even start in the strike zone. And more importantly they have not adjusted to the sinking action on Burnett’s fast ball. They’ve had plenty of pitches to cream they are fouling them off straight down into the dirt.
I’m getting sick of the Zimmer video. It;s beginning to reach the level of the snowballs at santa. Move on already, the fat, geriatric douchebag had it coming anyway.
Gotta tip the cap to Burnett right now for making the Phils offense look bad. He is getting ahead with fastballs, knowing the phils like to work the count. Then he is set up with the devastating curve. He just has it going right now. Phils may have to look for first pitch fastballs now. Let’s see how Burnett looks with 90+ pitches.
we need to get Burnett to 100 pitches this inning
Feliz has to be hurt. He seems to be leading his swing with his left wrist. His bat is way behind. I think his back is acting up. He doesn’t even look like a minor leaguer
This looks like one of the really ugly nights for Howard where he never seems to figure it out.
Werth should have killed that….
Howard is fine – again, Burnett is throwing off the outside corner and the ump is giving him the strike. Howard can’t reach that pitch. Again, you tip your cap. Relax. He is at 100 pitches. Both teams have decisions to make. It was a bonus geting 5 from Martinez with only 1 run. Personally I would take him out now. All his outs are flyballs, one of which left the park. I don’t like that in this park.
as we rave about Burnett, don’t look now but Pedro’s line is better. Same walks, K’s and one less hit
He strikes out A-Rod and Texeira and gives one up to Matsui?
Shit. That was a good pitch and a better job of hitting.
Look at the pitch not just the result. It wasn’t a bad pitch at all.
oops – not anymore.
6 IP, 2 Runs on two solo shots. I’ll take it. The back half needs to pick it up here and answer. This is what the Phillies do, they answer.
There should be no complaining or bitching about Pedro. He has given us 6 innings, 4 hits, 2 runs and 8 stikeouts. Offense hasn’t shown up to do their job tonight – period.
come on Phils – letting NY off the hook. Yankees only have 4 hits. We can’t go down 2-1. Would be fun to beat Rivera – you know we will see him start the 8th if NY still up
Man, Burnett is lighting up the outside corner.
Let Burnett get into a zone when we could have flustered him. Another wasted Pedro start.
You are right Dannie. Yankees have outhit the Phills tonight…so far
What the fuck was that DJ Hero thing. That’s going to give someone a fucking seizure.
personally I am glad to see Burnett out and Rivera in. We didn’t hit a single hard ball off him.
wow – real surprised to see Pedro out here
let’s get em in Philly! Would have been nice to wrap it up in Philly but hard to see us sweeping them 3 straight. Blanton vs Sabathia – yuck! We need our bats to come alive at home. We didn’t take advantage of the short porch enough with all those power lefties we have.
huge break on that one, the umpire strikes again.
i want a long inning here for MO, get a lot of pitches in the eighth!!!
Nice AB Jimmy, very nice. Lets put something together.
Rollins should have been running…would have been at third
no. double. plays.
Mo looks human here…
Fucking waste. Really pissing me off how passive they are on the bases.
Charlie must have really feared the strike-out/throw-out or line-out/throw-out DP.
that’s game
I’m with you Dannie, but that just as easily could have been a line-drive to Cano rather than a liner. With runners moving it’s an easy DP.
I replayed the play three times during the commercial break and it looked like Utley was safe. Fox just showed a blow-up slo-mo that confirmed he beat the throw.
Not so fast, Adam. Mo had to throw 23 pitches in the 8th.
that was our chance, but Mo looked like he was ready to blow another WS for sure…
Anybody think Francisco PH’s for Stairs should we get that far?
Francisco is 1 for 3 with a double lifetime against Rivera;
Stairs is 2 for 14 with 4 strike-outs.
Jason – Sure. It’s risk vs. reward. Playing passive ALL the time though isn’t going to get it done in the World Series AND I would think we would trust our superior base stealing ability. That situation called for a slightly riskier play in my opinion.
For me it’s a math decision. There were a lot of positive outcomes for running (extra base hit scores two easily, hard single scores one and moves Shane to third with one out still, takes away the double play particularly the guy at second which would bring up Ryan with two guys in scoring position, strike out 2 runners in scoring position instead of one etc etc.) compared to the negative outcomes. Also, people are always scared of the strike him out throw him out scenario and completely ignore the strike him out, throwing error possibility.
Somebody get that man a sombrero.
Bullshit strike
Somebody step into a pitch, something, please!
moment in history Raul, do something with it…
something like a double would work.
moment in history Matt, do something with it.
They struck Howard out three times on outside balls. The Yankee mystique is something else….er, I guess.
My final thoughts:
Great starting pitching both nights. We got them with 2 homers last night, they returned the favor tonight and that is the story. Phils fought hard tonight but missed the timely hit tonight. We aren’t used to that, but history suggests this team will shrug it off and move forward. This is eerily like the first two games against both the Rockies and Dodgers so they should have confidence that they can move forward.
Nobody really got an edge in the series so far. Yanks can be confident in their pitching and the fact that they face two very average pitchers next and their bats should wake up. They got one win and A-rod has contributed nothing. Phils playing their typical grinding ball. Also, I think the yanks bullpen can be had – all of it. This was their first look at Rivera and they will only key in more as they see him more, if they see him. They had some real good hacks tonight. I am not worried about Howard – strike zone should return to normal in Philly.
Best of 5 now. I don’t buy that the Phillies have the advantage because three are at home. I still give the Yanks advantage because the last two are at home, and their goal really needs to just be to win one in Philly and get it back to Yankee stadium. Obviously, Phils need to do no worse than 3-2. Lee must win game 5 and we need to find a way to win either the Hamels or Blanton start. Could they also start Burnett on 3 days rest against Lee?
On my wish list is more agressive baserunning. The one time we had Burnett out of sync was when Rollins was on first. We seem to be underplaying that advantage. We need to run all over the bases when Posada is back there. Nice to have Friday off – my nerves are shot.
one more thing – I think the Phils have to start Lee on short rest now. Unless Game 5 is the clincher, you would be looking to come back to New York with Pedro and Blanton, or Hamels on short rest?
Again Dannie, your point is very valid. In the post game press conference Charlie noted that he felt as though Utley had a much greater chance of striking out than he did of hitting into a DP. He also noted that Rollins stealing third was slightly exposed as a left-handed batter gave Posada a clear shot at third.
In the end, it’s six of one and a half-dozen of the other. I agree with you and would have been running, but that’s just me.
Between Game Thoughts – -
I’m finding last night’s effort by Pedro to contain some would be irony. Reaction is pretty positive. Had Cole Hamels pitched to identical results, I suspect it would be reviewed with a more negative tone. Hamels gave up what, 2 or 3 homers in his Game 5 start against the Dodgers. Matter of fact, it was the same against the Rockies, he pitched well to all but a couple hitters. That was actually positive, but the homers killed him. Same thing with Pedro, of course, 2 homers took him down. Yet the concensus on Hamels persists on his not being the same as last year, and Pedro gets strong reviews. An there is nothing wrong with that, its just relative to what’s expected, and ironic.
About this upcoming rotation. Shhesh. First, let me say that if the Phils lose, I think there will be some looking back by second guessers during Hot Stove time saying the Phils should have used Happ more in the playoffs. Sometimes, I have a feeling what Charlie is going to do, occasionally, with accuracy. I have no earthly idea if this would be a right thing to do, but why do I have this feeling that Happ may throw a simulated game today. It’s tough on Blanton or Happ starting any game at this point off their inconsistent schedules of the last few weeks, but somebdy has to start Game 4 or 5 besides Lee.
I wonder about Cliff Lee on 3 days rest. A month plus ago, he was hardly the pitcher he was the other night, and the innings pitched arguement certainly carried numeric merit. He was so good the other night it would seem to easily translate to being able to do it again on short rest, but I do wonder. Just how far can adrenalin take you? Let’s just say its in the back of my mind.
I don’t think the first 2 games offer any real apparent trends toward an outcome. That usually leads to a long series, usually being the operative word. It may come down to which cleanup hitter is able to lay off non strikes. So many things factor into that, but if I had to guess, it would be Ryan because of the upcoming home field, seemingly less unstable personality, less inglorious post season efforts to mess with his concenration.
Just one thought on the game 2: I feel like the Phils only got one half of a scouting report on Burnett – what to do with the bad Burnett. But what do you do when he’s on? Burnett (and Rivera) was throwing a lot of strikes, especially with that curveball, and it seemed like the Phils were taking the Pat Burrell approach and waiting for him to get wild and make mistakes. If, after 4 or so innings, you see that the pitcher brought his “A” game on this particular night, don’t you start swinging away, even at first pitches? You don’t have to do this for the rest of the game, but couldn’t you do this for an inning or two and, at the very least, mess with the guy’s rythm? Couldn’t you just sit on that curveball at the corner for a couple of innings, like, “A.J., I know what you’re up to there, buddy…”
Zack,
Interesting you should mention the scouting report on Burnett because none other than Burnett himself provided it. I read it in Wednesday’s New York Post.
Here is the key quote, imo:
“I am a guy that needs to go out there and get strike one,” Burnett said before the Game 1 tonight.
“So, I am not really trying to be too fine for strike one, but after that start I realize that early on I might try and be a little more finer, instead of just getting ahead. I won’t change anything as far as my plan and attack — just don’t be so careless from the get-go.”
He went out last night and did exactly what he said he was going to do, throwing first-pitch strikes to the first 11 hitters he faced and to 22 of the 26 hitters over his 7 innings, which is a credit to him.
Maybe the Phils players, coaches, and scouts should just read the newspapers and blogs, huh?
Ken,
About the different expectations for Pedro and Hamels, it goes beyond just the homeruns.
Over 2 postseason starts, Pedro has thrown 13 innings and allowed 3ER on 8 hits, 2 homeruns, 1HBP, and 2 walks while striking out 11.
Hamels has thrown only 14 2/3 innings over his 3 starts, and has allowed 11ER on 20 hits, 6 homeruns, 2 walks and 12 strikeouts.
Even if you were to look at Hamels’ starts individually, I would say that each of them was worse than Pedro’s start last night. So, yeah, my reaction to what Pedro has given us is pretty positive, and I am more negative about how Hamels has pitched. Rightly so, I think.
Game 2 loss. no need to sweat. liberal umpire made Burnett a strike machine. Pedro benefitted too. Hamels is going to pitch better than expected. need to support him. he can regain past glory in front of huge home crowd unlike that miserably quiet setting they call the Bronx. get back on track Game 3 – thats the plan. will they keep Matsui in the line-up? lets see Andy Pettite swing a bat.
SportsNation was just waiting for this. I bet now the Yanks win in six right?
Ken,
Forgot to mention that I understand you are saying that if Hamels pitched the same game as Pedro did last night the reaction would be different due to the greater expectations we have of Hamels (also that there is nothing wrong with that). You’re right.
When you look at the two of them———-One being a 38-year old we took a flier on in mid-season as a possible stopgap 5th starter and who has pitched sporadically over the last 6 weeks, while the other is a 25-year old NLCS and World Series MVP who has been taking his regular turn in the rotation the entire season———-I’d say the expectations certainly should be different, and markedly so.
I really want to be optimistic, jkay, but Hamels has made 35 starts this year and we’re still waiting for him “to regain his past glory”. I’m not holding my breath.
We need our offense to get to Pettitte and the Yankees middle relief. If Hamels delivers a gem, I’ll take it as a bonus at this point (not a sign that he has finally, it what could be his last start this year, turned it around).
Definitely agree that the Phils are being too passive. They need to get back to being aggressive like they were against the Dodgers, as pushing the action and making things happen is a big weapon for them.
This is especially true when they’re facing a guy like Rivera. He gives up very little, so you’ve got to make the most out of what you do get off of him.
bski: all it takes is one game. one game is all we need from him. Phils will be more aggresive in front of home crowd. Rollins needs to get it together. Rivera didnt look unhittable at all.
jkay,
True enough (unless we also need him for a game 7 of course).
And Rivera did look mortal last night. I really thought we were going to get something off of him. I was thinking that even if Utley grounded out (with the runners going, of course) or something, we’d have 2nd & 3rd with Howard coming up. Maybe he gets the intentional unintentional walk. Then Werth gets a shot. All the while Rivera’s pitch count would keep climbing, maybe to the point where Girardi would not want to risk bringing him back out for the 9th. Couldn’t make it happen.
Encouraging for the rest of the series though, especially since there are now 3 straight games in Philly with no off days.
Charlie Manuel has announced that Joe Blanton will start game 4. Here is his reasoning:
“He hasn’t pitched on three days’ rest, although I talked to him and he told me he had, or I thought he did,” Manuel said. “I also like him in Game 5 because we’ve got an offday Tuesday. If it goes seven games or something, that would be on his bullpen day and he might be able to pitch or whatever … I don’t think he’s ready for it on three days’ rest. That’s really pushing him because he’s never done it before. If he had done it before like CC has, and CC pitched consistently last year on three days’ rest. I think you’re taking a chance on really pushing him. He’s the kind of guy that he gets into the game and with his adrenaline going and everything, and definitely we don’t want to hurt him.
“And I think Blanton fits for us because I think we want to keep J.A. Happ in the bullpen, especially kind of in the middle where he could do some innings. Also Joe pitched last year in the World Series and he’s got a little bit more experience.”
Well, that means we’re only getting one more start from Lee while CC will most likely get two more. Not surprising, but we really need Hamels to step up now.
bski, I just saw that on espn. “…we really need Hamels to step up now.” is an understatement, this is a turning point for Hamels, the franchise, and series.
* If he pitches us to a win, where the offense doesn’t need to bail him out, then in a possible game 7, he’ll be more confident and it’ll be in the Yankees’ minds that Hamels beat them before. Plus, if he’s really good, and we have the series lead going into game 6, maybe Manuel goes with Cole over Pedro?
* If he pitches badly, do we throw him out there for a potential game 7? If we get there, that could be Manuel’s biggest decision ever. It would be between Hamels and Blanton, and if Blanton does well in game 4 it becomes a huge, huge call.
* Then there’s his value to the franchise – if he sucks tomorrow, and Charlie decides not to throw him out there for the rest of the series, what happens to him for next season and how does it affect the Phillies’ other moves? Do we try to move him, re-sign Brett Myers? Because after Lee who’s #2? Happ? If he does well, we wouldn’t have to worry about re-signing Pedro and making the same mistake with Moyer. Are we going to try to re-sign Lee, and if we do then Hamels’ contract would be a good one to move if he truly has lost that proverbial “it”.
I love Hamels, he’s one of my favorites, and I didn’t like to see him struggle this year, so I hope he comes back with a vengeance tomorrow, but it’s no ordinary World Series start - he’s supposed to be an important part of the Phillies’ foundation, but if it turns out he’s not anymore, then it’s a crack you just can’t patch over – the ramifications of his performance tomorrow might be felt for the next couple of years.
Zack,
……if he’s really good, and we have the series lead going into game 6, maybe Manuel goes with Cole over Pedro?
Can’t see that happening, as Hamels would only be on 3 days rest.
……It would be between Hamels and Blanton, and if Blanton does well in game 4 it becomes a huge, huge call.
Can’t see this happening either, as Blanton would only be on 3 days rest also, and, not taking his regular turn for a while now, I think it would be asking too much of him.
I’ve been tossing around different scenarios, but it seems to me like our rotation is now set: Hamels, Blanton, Lee, Pedro, Hamels. I mean, Happ is completely out of the starting equation and you can’t move the others around because of the required rest. I suppose if Hamels were to get hammered tomorrow, Charlie might have to come up with an emergency plan. Otherwise, I’d say that Hamels is our game 7 starter, my friend, although he’d most likely be on a very short leash since it’s for the whole ball of wax.
As for the rest of it beyond this season, I’d rather not think about that now (Other than to say that, unless it is a very cheap, 1-year, heavily incentivized deal, we shouldn’t re-sign Pedro. He’d be ok to have around for depth, but I can’t see counting on him taking his turn every 5th day for an entire season and pitching well consistently. I don’t think his body can stand up to it anymore.).
Just checked si.com and there happens to be a story from this afternoon about Cole Hamels by Joe Lemire.
“It’s a different year, so it’s a different gig.”
– “Lord Byron” Hamels, warming up for his next “Ellen” appearance
“… you don’t get guys out that you know you should be getting out, so it becomes a mental burden …”
– “Sigmund” Hamels, offering entrails
“… I call my grandmother in San Diego …”
- “Whole Milk” Hamels
I’ve sucked this season for the money I make and the attention that is lavished on me. I’ve gotta suck it up tonight and pitch with guts in the face of Yankees reality.
– “Don Quixote” Hamels