Comments on: World Series Game 3 Chat

By: The Greek

The Greek — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:18:27 +0000

lol Pete, yes please let me know when it’s over.

By: pg

pg — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:43:47 +0000

Correction Dannie, I thought you were talking about last season and this season. My point about what he did this year is irrelevant. My apologies.

I still want to make my point about distinctions between last postseason and this post season.

By: pg

pg — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:38:42 +0000

????? Dannie, I am not trying to split hairs….. but he did throw his curve last year and this year. It is not great, nor does he throw it often (nor should he), but when mixed in effectively – it was enough.

I would also not say that he was not “tremendously successful” this year by any stretch of the imagination. He had a plus 4 ERA and was 10-11. You are right in that he was “tremendously successful” last year especially in the postseason and he threw the curve nearly 15% of the time. According to fangraphs he has thrown it 8% of the time in the months of September and October. Does not seem like experimenting to me when he is throwing it half of the time he was last year. If he is going to throw it, I would rather he throw it against the pitcher or the weaker hitter than any of the 1-6 in tough counts.

I am not trying to argue what his best pitches are, but that lineup is just too good to only throw two pitches against. He can get away with it against a Marlins lineup, but not this one on any given day. I agree that he should not be trying out a new pitch nor did I suggest that.

Again, I will concede I did not read his post game comments until you alluded to them, and that is serious cause for concern – and I will again point out I have no idea where his head is. I am not trying to argue that either.

Charlie is going to be put in a tough spot should there be a game 7. My thought process about not completely giving up on Hamels is that he has looked ok through the first three innings in the last three games. I don’t know how many innings Happ will be able to give when he hasn’t started in a long time and he has been pitching multiple innings in relief – which I see him doing tonight as well. I don’t know what will happen with the other pitchers between now and then. I would obviously love to pitch Pedro and CL Smooth every other day at this point.

Anyway, this is getting away from my original point in that Hamels does not nearly concern me as much as Howard and Utley have been swinging the bat. It does not matter who is pitching game 7….if Howard and Utley continue to look lost at the plate. I am not all doom and gloom because baseball can switch at a moments’ notice unlike any other sport. But Werth can hit all the solo homeruns in the world and it will still be really tough without those two coming through with either men on base – or getting on base period.

By: Dannie

Dannie — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:39:12 +0000

No way he can go through that lineup 3 times by exclusively throwing 2 pitches in my opinion.

You mean like he did ALL of last season and the postseason - with tremendous success?

The world series isn't the time for experimenting with a weak third pitch.

If you are going to get beat, get beat throwing your best stuff.

My problem with Hamels hasn't been his stuff. As you said he fastball and change looked perfectly fine to me. It's been his approach to games, hitters and different situations. I feel like he hasn't had a strong game plan for line-ups and his ability to effectively adjust as he goes through a line-up a couple times and handle tough situations has been sorely lacking.

At this point I don't think it should be all hands on deck. It should be all capable hands on deck. Hamels has yet to prove he is capable this season and imploded leading to a blown 3 run lead in a pivotal game 3 of the WS.

Had he stopped the bleeding after the A-rod homer I wouldn't be as critical. But that's just it, his ability to stop bleeding has been nonexistent. And I would worry that if you put him on the mound again we won't be able to get him out before he kills us again.

By: jjg

jjg — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:59:53 +0000

7 of the last 10 batters Hamels faced reached base … that’s poor pitching any way you cut it.

By: pg

pg — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:55:49 +0000

Dannie,
Yes his line was terrible. Bottom line, a good performance can be separated from a bad performance by a couple of key ABs – and he was the victim of a couple of bloop singles, what I thought was a terrible call (I guess we’ll agree to disagree), and yes as I pointed out before a bad pitch to Swisher. In retrospect, it was not a good pitch to Pettitt, but hindsight is 20/20. It is not a bad time to try to show that fact you can throw the curve for strikes. No way he can go through that lineup 3 times by exclusively throwing 2 pitches in my opinion.
I had not read his postgame comments before. As you indicate, I am really not impressed with his affect/attitude/confidence/whatever. When you are in the WS, you should not say “I am looking forward to the offseason.” Agreed agreed agreed.
However, I think we as fans are a little more entitled to look at where he broke down and analyze it honestly without sounding defeatest. Were I him in the postgame, I would have said something along the lines of, “I did not make my pitches, I sucked, and I am sorry to let my team down. I want everything in my power to get the chance to throw again, and show how I can pitch.” I am not going to come here as a fan and say that. Was he good last night? No. I just did not find his perfromance so terrible (and I’ll give you, I had not read his comments) that I feel like the sky is falling, and there is no way he can throw again – which was the sense I got from reading all the recaps from last night. If it goes to a game 7, it’s an all hands on deck, and I feel like he showed he can throw a few innings effectively. Obviously there is something going on in his head, and I do not pretend to know what is going on.

By: phillyfan

phillyfan — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:46:13 +0000

Hamels was OK. In the regular season – who knows he may have gone 7 innings and given up no more runs. Only 69 pitches. Our offense is killing us. Chase and Howard have dissappeared last two games – especially Chase in terms of men on base. We need to put up an 8-10 spot ourselves. That is what this team is built on and they aren’t doing it.

By: Dannie

Dannie — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:31:05 +0000

PG - I personally don't agree with your opinion of Hamels. You actually sound like Hamels did in his interviews after the game.

I think Hamels was horrible in terms of end results 5 ER and 2 walks in 4 and a third. I don't get how that isn't bad anyway you look at it?

But his pitch selection and timing was horrible in my opinion. Walking Tex in front of A-rod was a big mistake. For one he was ahead 2-1 in the count and threw three straight balls.

The pitch to Texeria could go either way on any given pitch. It was close. He it didn't go his way that time. I don't think it was a no brainer strike to be called "BS."

But the point is you have to attack Tex knowing A-Rod is behind.

A-rod gets credit for his strength but the pitch was still out over the plate and up. A-Rod has yet to prove he can hit hard stuff inside or the change down and away. The pitch was poor location and choice in my opinion.

The curve to Swisher was atrocious. Down and in would be right in Swishers hitting zone. He has looked terrible on off-speed stuff away.

And throwing a curve to Pettitte was again a terrible choice of pitch. He said after the game it was a clear bunting situation. I disagree. It was a running already in scoring position with 1 out. Moving him to third having 2 outs is a marginal play, not automatic. Especially when the that could be achieved with a ground ball swinging. Besides that throw something hard to force the guy to lay down a good bunt. Maybe he bunts it hard back and you can hold the runner.

Either way he got beat using his weakest pitch, to the Yankees weakest hitters that isn't good pitching to me.

I don't trust him and wouldn't pitch him again especially hearing his defeatist comments after the game.

By: pg

pg — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:01:33 +0000

Am I alone in that I don’t think Hamels was that bad last night? That was a bs ball call on Texiera, and ARod was late in his swing on the ball he hit out. Did you see how surprised ARod was when he realized it was not going to be a pop out. Tip your hat to his strength. The fifth inning, Hamels was not as sharp especially against Swisher and Damon – but those were two really fluky bloops with Jeter and Pettitt. The ball was not being hit hard. With the exception of the curve to Swisher, he was locating it as well as he needed to, to be effective. His fastball was pretty good locationwise. I was surprised more by his lack of use of the change, but I was guessing he was going to give the hitter a heavy dose of it in the 5/6th. If he had to pitch in a game 7, I honestly would take my chances starting him with an all-hands on deck approach.

A bigger concern to me is Howard. He is getting himself into waaaaayyyy too many 0-2 1-2 counts – and some off-balance swing and misses. It seems like, the Yanks are going to give him a heavy dose of breaking balls down and away. I would like to see him start taking pitches that aren’t inside early in the count – or really look to go the other way. Would like to see Utley have some more productive ABs as well. This lineup is deap enough to inflict some damage without those two hitting, but not good enough to beat the Yankees in a 7 game series without them.

Make CC work tonight – and let’s get some key hits by those two guys!

By: jkay

jkay — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:43:54 +0000

how long is Manuel going to babysit his players. Hamels keeps self destructing out there. well he’s got more faith in him than I do.
‘ I look at that, if he can do it for three innings, why can’t he keep going’- by that reasoning I should have Kyle Kendrick starting every game.