Once again the Phillies’ backs are against the wall. They have thrived in these kinds of situations during the regular season and post-season over the last 3 seasons. Can they do it one (or two) more times?
Here are my thoughts heading into Game 6…
- Pedro vs. Pettitte on 3 days rest. I personally would prefer our position here. We beat up Pettitte on 4 days rest (overshadowed by Hamels’ meltdown) and Pedro’s off-speed pitches have shown so much movement in the playoffs that I think he will continue to be effective.
- It is vital that we have the lead heading into the 8th inning. Otherwise we see Mariano for 2 innings, and while he’s not impossible to get to, he’s as close as it gets.
- Can Jayson Werth get to Pettitte again? Can Ryan Howard, who bats between Werth and the red-hot Chase Utley, make it impossible for Pettitte to pitch around both hitters?
- Speaking of Howard. HE’S GOING TO THROW YOU SLIDERS, RYAN. LOTS OF THEM. PREPARE YOURSELF AND TRY TO HIT THE BALL TO LEFT.
- Should Victorino be out there? I don’t think there is any way he is going to be able to handle a bat tonight, yet he insists he is playing. However, if he doesn’t, are there better options? Francisco would play center (downgrade defensively and CF and LF, where Raul would have to play over Francisco) and who would DH? Stairs? Dobbs? Bruntlett? I think a Victorino who can’t bat might still be an upgrade over those guys.
- Can we see Scott Eyre, please? You would think with how awful our bullpen has been in this series, we would see more of the guy who led our bullpen with a 1.50 ERA during the season. Not saying he should close, but at least for Matsui or something.
- If we lose, can it please not be in some sort of walk-off fashion, Joe Carter style. Can it please just be a normal loss, not a comeback against our horrible bullpen that ends with Jeter or Centaur-Rod hitting a walk-off HR that causes ESPN to halt all programming for a month to just show the replay over and over?
Feel free to discuss the Game here, before, during and after. We’ve had some great dialogue through the first 5 games.
GO PHILS!
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{ 171 comments… read them below or add one }
I love that picture. I saw it yesterday. But, um, isn’t that a bad omen? If I recall correctly, King Kong died in the end. King Kong did not win…
In other news, while we beat up Petitte early and had a 3-0 lead, I can’t agree that we beat him up for the game. After those 3 runs, Petitte was pretty dominant.
hmmmm… excellent point. I guess things didn’t turn out all that well for King Kong. To make matters worse, the famous line “was beauty killed the beast” infers the girl killed him. And the Yankees are indeed a bunch of girls.
on the flip side, the moral “victors” were certainly not the humans, who while they killed Kong, were pretty much a bunch of a-holes who exploited him.
what does this all mean? absolutely nothing.
I guess Pettitte’s line wasn’t as bad as I thought (6 IP, 4 ER). Would you take 4 runs off him tonight? I think we can get more than that.
I prefer our position, too. We’ve already had success against Burnett on 3-days rest, so I’m inclined to think that the same will hold against Pettitte. In addition, we do better against most pitchers the more we see them, which has me expecting greater success against Pettitte this time around after having faced him a mere 4 days ago, just as we did against Burnett.
The key for me is that we not only need to get to Pettitte early, like we did in game 3, but also to keep on him and get him out early, like we did to Burnett in game 5. This gets us into their bullpen early, which should really help the offense, today as well as in game 7, and also give Pedro some breathing room.
On the flip side, since the Yankees also faced Pedro just a few days ago, I’m not expecting him to be as successful tonight. He may grab the spotlight and dazzle, but the Yankees offense is good too, especially with Matsui back in there, and I expect Pedro to have a tougher time tonight. If it’s a close game, I don’t want to see Charlie push it and try to get “one more” inning out of Pedro. Whenever it’s time to make that decision, whenever Charlie is on the fence, I’d rather see him take what Pedro has given us to that point and remove him from the game. I know it’s not always easy to tell when that time is with Pedro, it’s just that he loses it quickly so the decision needs to be made quickly.
The non-usage of Scott Eyre has me puzzled, too. I mean, Charlie has openly stated that he’d be very careful with Eyre, yet he has gotten him up and warming about 75 times over the last few games but hasn’t used him. And we certainly could have used him, imo.
To me this game comes down to one thing. What will the stike zone look like when Pettite is pitching. If it is tight, then we win. If liberal, then we lose. The strike zone definitely shrunk for Burnett when he went to Philly, so I expect it will widen tonight for Pettie in the Bronx. Look for Howard, Utley and Ibanez all to be down 0-1 on outside sliders that are outside of the strike zone. That is the only reason I don’t like our chances. But I guess that is why they call it homefield advantage.
Victorino is in the lineup. From Todd Zolecki:
Charlie Manuel said Victorino (bruised right index finger) told him he can throw and hit, but he will be monitored closely.
I sure hope he’s better than just ok, as getting four weak-swinging groundouts, strikeouts, or popups won’t help us much.
I am sure victorino took a shot. I am not worried he will be limited by pain, but I am not sure if the shot would reduce his abilities due to “feel.” If the shot numbs it and he loses his feel of the bat then that isn’t good either. I would look first-pitch fastball if I were him because my guess is Yanks will think he will be looking to walk.
This lineup can’t be held down by a pitcher on 3 days rest, that said we need Pedro on 5 days rest to come up with a huge game, I think he can. That said I don’t see how we win the World Series with Ryan Howard contributing next to nothing, his bat needs to come alive like he did in the NLCS
Guarantee this song gets you pumped up. “Ill state of Mind” by Neeko a rip on “Empire State of Mind” by Jay-Z. The Philly version is better and Diana Marie sounds EXACTLY like Alicia Keys
We’ve already had success against Burnett on 3-days rest, so I’m inclined to think that the same will hold against Pettitte. >>
I know all that matters is winning, but if Pettitte is beat, its not necessarily for the same reason as AJ. AJ has a history of inconsistency, much more than Andy. Whatever and however we gotta get some runs.
<<On the flip side, since the Yankees also faced Pedro just a few days ago, I’m not expecting him to be as successful tonight. He may grab the spotlight and dazzle, but the Yankees offense is good too, especially with Matsui back in there, and I expect Pedro to have a tougher time tonight. >>
That’s a fine standard to predict a 2nd outing for most pitchers. Most pitchers are not pitching tonight. Pedro Martinez is pitching.
That’s all I have to say. Time will tell if I am talking about a 38 year old pitcher, who is as far removed from what he was as popular opiniion projects, or a Hall of Famer amongst Hall of Famers. It is true that the Yanks have a better lineup again tonight with Matsui, Posada back, but I still think Pedro does very well.
<<It is vital that we have the lead heading into the 8th inning. Otherwise we see Mariano for 2 innings, and while he’s not impossible to get to, he’s as close as it gets.>>
Only a fool would disagree, but I will say this. One potentially terrific scenario would be Rivera get in early, and catch him after he throws enough pitches that it effects him tomorrow night.
If I recall correctly, King Kong died in the end.>>
Did the remake end the same as the original which is now, wow 76 years old? He died in the original. Still a great pic.
<<I don’t see how we win the World Series with Ryan Howard contributing next to nothing, his bat needs to come alive like he did in the NLCS>>
Its apples to oarnges in a lot of ways, but Mick Schmidt, I think, was 1-21 or something really mediocore in 1980. Point well taken, but when you have 5 guys with 30 plus, others can pick it up. Ryan’s presence is worth a lot in and of itself. And I’ll tell you a little secret. Ryan still could jack 1, or 2, and the psychological lift would be priceless.
Days of rest for Pettitte in his last 8 starts (includes postseason): 5, 9, 5 5, 7, 8, 4, 5. For Pedro’s last 5: 5, 5, 10, 15, 12
(copied from a post on Twitter.
Dave Winfield: “I look for Pedro to add another page to his historic career.”
Ken I think you are agreeing with me. If Ryan Howard gets 1 or 2 hits tonight, the Phillies are winning this game. Another 0-4 night for the big guy and it’s lights out I think.
Ryan got off to a lousy start in the Series last year, and still hit 2 homers in 1 game before it ended. It’s absurd to think he won’t contribute before it’s over. Joe West has the plate tonight, has a rep of a small strike zone. If Ryan lays off the early breaking pitches and West calls them balls, maybe he gets a fastball and drives it deep into the Bronx night.
If he doesn’t, Phils can still win. Lotta balance, lots of good swings in Game 5. Power throughout the lineup. The Schmidt comparison was a team that won with next to nothing from its anchor hitter. Not sure if it’s a fair comparison, but this isn’t a 1 man, 1 dimensional lineup. In a whole season, you need his bat. Just like the Yanks need more than 4 pitchers. This is a 2 game season. We just need a hero, no matter who.
Light years easier if RH hits. No question.
that was a bad omen
not a good start for the offense. we got to Burnett right away.
that coulod not have been worse – and pettite only threw 7 pitches
i really hope that 84mph is wrong on his fastball
bugs bunny change-up is working though!
heard you the first time, phillyfan – you just the debbie downer of these chats, arent you?
is pedro joking? He had nothing. 80 mph fastball? Is this Jamie Moyer?
mlb.com gameday is saying he has only thrown change-ups – no fastballs.
I hope they don’t let pedro pitch more than 3 innings if this is all he has. He won’t get through the lineup twice
dude, seriously…
Pettite looks real good, locating that fastball up an din.
we look tight
From these posts you’d never know the Yankees have no hits.
phillyfan is clearly a yankees fan
might want to get Happ warming up – pedro’s pitches are slow and he is nibbling
Yea, he is not that sharp so far….
alright – 3 easy outs after the HR – and his velo is coming up a bit – hopefully he can settle down and we can get to Pettitte
I think Francisco will have a good game for some reason
Ruiz just always seems calm and cool….
pedro’s gotta shut ‘em down so our big guns can tie this baby up next inning
get Pedro and Victorino out of there now!
pretty lame they haven’t done a full HK tribute/montage yet
phillyfan-
just like blanton, right?
phillyfan has been right. Not a Yankee fan. It is obvious. Manuel again went 1 inning to long with Pedro
geez – this os do or die – get him out of there!!!!
well – this could be a problem…
not good
I would bring in Madson here
Whoa big strike out.
TK76 doesn’t understand why people refer to themselves in the 3rd person.
disagree with leaving pedro in against matsui
is manuel on drugs? How does he pitch to Matsui? What is he leaving Happ for tomorrow? There will be no tomorrow.
Stop pitching him inside
phillyfan- was that a joke?
Think Matsui is looking for his fastball….?
thanks Charlie – lucky you have one ring in the bag or you would be gone
FUCK
0-2 pitch. HORRIBLE decision to keep Pedro in against a guy that had 2 HR in 2 AB against Pedro! AND he hit several more foul.
phillyfan -
how old are you?
would you honestly fire charlie because of this inning? regardless of last year
Pedro not only has not had good stuff, but he has not made good decisions with his pitches. Why throw any fastball in an 0-2 count? What is the thinking there?
Manuel is going to and should be killed by the media for that inning.
yes – there is no reason Martinez should have been pitching to Matsui with Happ ready to go
I do not get throwing a fastball there. Matsui hit about 3-4 really hard in just 2 ABs….need some runs back.
agree. Pedro just didn’t have it tonight. Only reason I can think of is Happ has done poorly coming in with control out of the pen. Tough, tough start.
Well the inning is over. They have to take it from here.
need a run back here
Ok so that was a bad inning for Pedro but there is absolutely no reason to believe we can’t come right back and get at Pettitte. It’s on our hitters thought. Pettitte in my opinion has NOT been pitching well. He has been behind most hitters where 3 pitches have been thrown. Chooch has been the only one to capitalize on the cookie he throws behind in the count.
Phillyfan is on drugs…The Phils have been good pretty much since Charlie took over…Getting to the WS means nothing?…I dunno bout you guys but I been a phils fan for a while and regardless of this outcome, i haven’t forgotten the years since 93′…Bad call, but not for Manuels job.
Damon is out. That’s good.
Did anyone else notice Shane’s terrible throw on that Matsui hit?
how about a 2-run shot Raul?
yes, not a good throw
i could not watch Posada behind the plate for an entire season – he is the most atrocious defensive catcher i have ever seen
Here we go.
why is Feliz hitting 7th and not Francisco?
The Yanks have made the most of walks with 2 outs against us. It’s our turn.
ugh….Feliz…. (I had this pre-typed)
Those are the kind of hits we need to win this game…
The 1 shot of the pen was quiet. Bottom of the order, but he can’t bring Pedro back.
wow, I just don’t know about staying with Pedro.
Ok, I gotta say something seems fishy right now. What is going on? Why is Pedro still in?
don’t get it either – especially after Cano just rocked that to the wall. probably thinks he can get Pedro through 4 and then Happ for 3?
Pettite got squeezed and we still couldn’t get any runs out of it.
This is definitely Pedro’s last inning. I have to believe any trouble, he’s gone, and he’s not facing the top of the order next inning. Just not his night.
It took him 3 innings to get his velocity up. What’s that all about?
Has he thrown a breaking ball yet tonight?
Yes, I was joking about Charlie. BUT he is wrong about handling Pedro. He is managing like if we lose we’ll just get them tomorrow. I can’t believe he could let him pitch to Matsui. Even if Matsui gets a hit off Happ or Eyre, he has made the right move. It is driving me nuts. For us, it is “all hands on deck” for Game 6 and 7.
Next inning, we have a shot at gettig Ryan up with men on, and he has made contact tonight. Might be a good shot.
I must hand it to Pettite. I disagree with some here. I think he looks very sharp. He is paitning the corners and just not getting the calls. Our only hope as I see it is the get him the third time through the lineup when he should start getting gassed. We need to get this to a one run game by the 8th.
<<Ok, I gotta say something seems fishy right now. What is going on? Why is Pedro still in?>>
Charlie has the over?
Pettitte was thrown 62 pitches and only 31 strikes. He is NOT pitching well. We are not taking advantage of hitters counts. We are simply not hitting pitches we should be hitting.
don’t bother swinging at that fastball down the middle Ben
Ben how are you not geared up to swing at a fastball straight down the middle?
I think you have to hit for Victorino if men on base
4 walks in 4.1 innings. We are not getting it done right now. He is giving us plenty of chances.
Pettitte was thrown 62 pitches and only 31 strikes. He is NOT pitching well. We are not taking advantage of hitters counts. We are simply not hitting pitches we should be hitting.>>
He is making the pitches when he has to. # of strikes isn’t what is important. He has been around the zone the whole night
cmon jimmy, get something going here
Pettitte isn’t pitching great, but he’s locating on the corners when he needs to
Have the Yankees scored every batter we’ve walked this series? It sure feels like it.
I’f I’m Pettite I don’t throw strikes to the phils unless I need to. Just keep going for corners and making them chase. They seem willing to chase so far.
we’ve got 8 outs to get 3 runs before Mariano comes in
fuckin’ A Rollins’
Come on JRoll………
still say Petite isn’t pitching well? From my seat he is playing our hitters like a fiddle.
Has Rollins had a hit from the right side this postseason?
that Rollins AB was so huge. Still got chances, but that inning was a real chance. Pitch count was going good, and 2 on with Vic up woulda been good. Still in the game. Gotta keep them at 4 here.
doesn’t seem like it
Your seat in New York? Dude get off the Yanks d**k my god you have been on it every game all series. Or at least comment with a more appropriate name.
did JA do something horrible to Charlie? 8th best ERA in the NL this season, and exactly ONE appearance in the world series
season comes down to next inning for us. What a downer of a series. I really have to blame the offense overall. We had one hitter make big impact and 2 hitters make little impact (Werth and Ruiz). Big fat “F” for everyone else. No extrabase hits for Rollins or Victorino. Howard and Ibanez invisible.
this could get real ugly, real fast
Happ was waaayyyy too good of a pitcher to leave on the bench.
I hope he is saving Happ for a game 7. What’s the point of getting him up?
Phillyfan-
take a 6 game snapshot at any point during the regular season. there will always be really good and really bad hitters in such a short span. without Howard, we aren’t even in the series. Same goes for Victorino.
Also – if you have watched this team at all this season – you’ll know never to count them out.
its over – great run guys. Nothing to hang head about. We should be back next year.
great job Durbin!
Manuel royally screwed up this game
seeya phillyfan – come back when you are done celebrating the yankees victory
We have the heart of the order coming up. No choice but to think positive.
Pete – I didn’t say they stink as players. I am just disappointed. Other than Ultley, they didn’t rise to the occasion. Yanks pitching isn’t even that good. Our pitching wasn’t great, but I think our bats is what lost us the series.
I don’t care what you call it. Howard is probably my favorite player. And we still would have won even without Howard if Rollins or Ibanez or a few others just hit to their capability.
Pettite with 2 wins is inexcusable. We didn’t have trouble beating lefties in the regular season. Pettite isn’t even that good, so we kindof choked. That is what disappoints me.
Pete, I was thinking the same thing about Happ. Where the hell has he been? He’s been nothing short of stellar this year. You’d think he deserved a chance to help his team win.
This sucks
It’s like I don’t ever give up on games but we gotta stop the bleeding at some point.
Bottom line is we needed at least 2 out of 3 at home. Also, I agree that losing 2 to Pettite is inexcusable.
Walks and leadoff runners. It’ll bury you in the WS, especially against a team like the Yankees.
So we’ll see what happens this inning. Good part of the lineup to maybe start chipping away.
Drew, we didn’t need 2 out of 3 at home, because we only got one and we’re still playing baseball. We need four wins. period. Wherever we get them. Philly, New York, wherever. this team can still throw up a crooked number against any pitcher in baseball, it’s just a matter of executing.
I assume it feels good to wonder where Happ has been, and I’m not up for getting in an arguement, but its not like he’s shined in the playoffs. I mean the guy is good, but maybe his less than great post season is an indicator.
My take as a casual fan:
Other than Lee none of the pitchers seem to be up to the challenge of the Yanks line-up. Maybe Happ could have been, but never really got a chance to see.
The series goes differently with 2 top pitchers… but Hamels was not really here this fall (or this season.) They needed 2 elite pitchers… So now its up to trying for an offensive miracle.
Have the Yankees needed to move on defense at all. everything they hit has been right at a blue hat.
fifth walk, as buck just mentioned. one run to show for it. weak sauce.
bang
The object now remains to keep them scoreless. Get Ryan up again as the tying or lead run.
Probably the most balanced he’s looked in a week. got some help from the wind also. four more brotha.
now 3 runs to show for it! let’s make ‘em sweat a little boys!
Jesus Werth – what you looking for there dude????
What exactly were you looking for Jayson? I counted at least two decent pitches that admired like a house wife shopping for a new church hat.
Hopefully the pressure gets to Joba a little bit. We already know the bottom of the order can hit him.
Wonder who our best bet is for next inning to keep them at 7. Happ again? Whoever it is has to shut them down.
Cool, half decent blow up candidate comes in for them
TK76 – I agree and disagree. We got two strong performances from Lee for our wins. But we only scored 1 run in game down where our starting pitcher only gave up 3 in 6 and our bullpen gave up nothing.
Blanton’s line was very similar to Sabathia’s he kept us right there in the game. The bullpen blew that one.
In my opinion this series came down to game three and punk ass Cole Hamels not holding a 3-0 lead. That was the series changer right there.
Starting pitching was great but it wasn’t the biggest problem as a whole in my opinion. We didn’t hit at all in game 2. We blew a game late and we had Cole against Pettitte up 3-0 AT HOME. That is about as good a situation as you can be in.
Game 6 or the World Series in 93 we scored 5 runs when trailing by 4 in the 7th….just saying
Feliz has made the most weak outs I have ever seen in my entire life. I mean he doesn’t even make the defense move or work even a little bit. He hits slow, perfect bounce ground outs like he trains for it.
dannie – feliz is soo frustrating, he is the only player on the team I have no faith in offensively
Feliz is like the girl who can’t hit on your slow pitch softball team, but you have to play her (apologies to girls who can hit)
Definitely not in fat lady territory… not with this team.
if we win – phillyfan wins a permanent ban!
Feliz plays like a guy who quit the juice right after he signed with the Phil… Just lookin at the numbers.
Geez Howard – now you have to tease us with what could have been.
Happ you gotta keep this at 4 dude.
I think Girardi will go to Mo next inning if there is a rally of sorts. So our big hitters will be facing him the rest of the night. Give it a shot, and see what happens.
Feliz plays like a guy who quit the juice right after he signed with the Phil… Just lookin at the numbers.>>
I thought you said you were a casual fan? You have a long memory.
this is the inning – need at least 3!
what are you doing Jimmy? your run doesn’t matter!
Girardi – I’ll give you a $1 if you leave Joba in!
well at least we aren’t going down without a fight
wow, no Rivera? Guess who’s up if Chase walks with the tying run.
take a walk Chase is you can. The homer record would be nice but you can get it later or tomorrow. Load the bases for Howard
Odd series for Chase. He has come up really small with men on base for the majority of the series.
phillyfan – i thought this game was over and you quit?
do not pass home, do not not collect any RBI’s. just grab some bench Matsui.
hey! it’s Scott Eyre! he’s pretty good!
good call on that pete…too bad they didn’t listen to you earlier
Alright, they’ve had plenty of chances to see Mo so far this series. This is the biggest inning this team has played in two decades (until the next one anyway). It’s time to step up Ryan. And Werth, maybe you could swing this time around. And Raul. Let’s make it happen.
Hey Howard, breaking balls in the dirt and a foot off the plate probably won;t be called strikes. Leave them alone.
All night looking at strikes down the middle whether they are fastballs or breaking pitches, they looked out balls right down the middle. So passive tonight.
would be nice to get a couple guys on at least so the big guys get a chance in the 9th
Be nice to get at least 1 here.
why is Eyre still in?
Be nice if Pedro Feliz wasn’t the worst hitter still playing.
If only he was as good at the plate as he is in the field.
Wonder if Fransisco can somehow get on. Have to start somewhere.
If we do go down, I’m making a quick exit. No interest in the post game. Only ? I’d have for Charlie is when did he realize it wasn’t Pedro’s night. But I do want to thank Pete and Danni for the board, and enjoyed reading many of the posts.
It’s over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No go support the Sixers!
sorry meant to type now go support Sammy D’s Sixers
KB-
yeah, I will not watch the postgame, and will not watch anything on any channel about this for awhile.
get Howard up there!
Agreed, no sports sites, shows, or radio until Sunday for me.
I have to say I’m a bit stunned right now. I really thought they were going to send it to a 7th game. A couple thoughts before bed:
Utley had a historic world series, he won’t be satisfied without the title, but as a fan I’m very proud to have him on this team.
Cole Hamels has been unequivocally abysmal this year, regular season and post. He’s got a new family at home, and that’s the most important thing, but I hope he takes some time to decide if he wants to be a #1 starter for years to come. One title is great, it’s a hole-in-one, so few people have ever even sniffed that, but if you’re good enough to win one, you’re good enough to be disappointed in not winning more than one. To be the pitcher he can be he’ll have to put it an enormous amount of hard work, I hope he’s up for it.
I lay no blame on Ryan Howard for this loss. Like you said Pete, you can find up and down performances in any six game stretch. His happened at the worst possible time, but thats how it goes sometimes. He performed at an MVP level until game two of this series. Without him we don’t get here.
WHERE THE FUCK WERE HAPP AND EYRE??
A few key guys headed to free agency this offseason. Myers, Feliz, Park and Eyre specifically. Who stays, who goes? Can Myers be a part of this team? As a starter? Does Reuben bring back the defensively consistent Feliz or go try to upgrade with a guy like Figgins?
Final observation: Lets Go FLYERS!! Oh, and Shut the fuck up McCarver!!
Pete and Dannie, thanks for an awesome forum for all of us to vent and discuss. I really enjoyed all the material and the conversation.
thanks for coming out guys – hope to hear from you all this off-season as well…
Chris, If Hamels can get his head out of his ass the Phils should have a another great shot or two at another ring. Hamels/Lee both on would be hard to stop, even without this great offense.
tk47, I completely agree. I hope it happens. Not just because I’m a Phillies fan, but because I’m a Cole Hamels fan. Having two guys at the top of the rotation like Cliff and Cole would be stellar. It’d be like the Cardinals (Wainwright and Carpenter) but with an offense.
ahhhhhhhhhhhh i love thw world series