We can continue under the new topic.

When I say that it is not Durbin’s role to pitch the 9th, that is the reality of today.  That’s why I said earlier that I do not blame Manuel for using Durbin Thursday night.  These comments are based on the facts on the ground.  I would like for things to be different but, for now, they are not and we have to deal with

It would be hard to re-define the role of the closer because of the “save” stat.  Given the situation you gave above – 2 on, no one out – how could you compensate a good performance by a reliever with some sort of quantifiable number?  Because that’s what a lot of players look for, some stats counting their feats, because those stats mean bigger paychecks.  Those bigger paychecks come because fans will want to come to the ball park and watch TV to see you get those stats.

My way to change the game would be much simpler than your smacking around Jimmy’s coach, telling him everyone should get a chance to shoot, not just Carmelo – if you pitch under save conditions in the 8th inning instead of the ninth, you get a save, or half a save.

I’m beat, been up 24 hours straight, catch you tomorrow.

The 3 run cushion is exactly why a further effort on his part made sense, unless his arm was utterly shot, which I doubt.    Tired to a degree, yes.  Shot, hardly.  Give for the team – the max, not the self-measured; very small chance that his arm health was in jeopardy.  He’d been given an extra day’s rest by the club (missed Mets as a result).  Whether it was a Hamels or coach/mgr. call - a costly mistake.

As for your charge of contradiction, I expect more of my ace than a jerry-rigged bullpen.  That surprisingly-effective pen – up to 8/26 - is partly illusory and increasingly threadbare.  Cubs eyes probably lit up at sight of Ryan Madsen, after scant success vs. Kid Cole.  Result:  1 loss; 1 pea removed from under mattress after 7th inning.  
  

furthermore, I’m not about to get on the NL leader in IP for not pitching enough innings, especially with his history of injury problems. It was 4-1, not 1-0, the bullpen should be able to handle that, regardless of rest. (its a tad contradictory to say Hamels should overwork his arm and pitch well, but the bullpen, with the best ERA in baseball, should be held back due to arm overwork)

Yes, players are comfortable in certain roles which prevents them from bring effective when asked to do something different.  Yes, it should not be done without proper preparation.  Finally (and this is the biggie), a huge part of it is mental.

You have hit on everything! It is exactly what I want to see change. I am going to try and be as clear as possible in my explanation this time.

I believe that the “role of the closer” is an artificial construct built around the rules governing how a save is awarded.  It has evolved over the last 30 years (damn that LaRussa) into what is is now.  Since it has changed, I believe that it can change again.  What I am talking about is a paradigm shift that literally redefines the “role of the closer”.

I’m with you.  I don’t go for all this bowing and scraping at the feet of the modern day closer.  I think that, if properly prepared, many relief pitchers could certainly handle 9th inning (or late inning) duties.  The reason they cannot do it now is because an entire generation of pitchers now behold the closer as a hallowed position, with an impenetrable aura and mystique to which many of them can never aspire.  In essence they are mentally conditioned to believe that a pitcher needs to be a very special, rare breed in order to do the job.  I believe that many relievers could physically do the job, but they psyche themselves out mentally.  They destroy their chance at success in their own mind before they even attempt it.  I truly believe that if we could pull back the curtain, as it were, many relievers would find that the wizard is nothing to be feared after all. It’s going to take time, but I think eventually we can deprogram relievers so that they are mentally able to deal with different situations.

This may seem like a goofy analogy, but I’ll give it to you anyway.  I have coached youth sports for a while (basketball, soccer, and baseball).  I have coached against guys in basketball who have told certain kids to never shoot the ball. Well, if Jimmy doesn’t shoot the ball in 3rd grade, or 4th grade, or 5th grade, Jimmy will never be able to shoot the ball.  While ignoring the fact that it is totally screwed up to tell an 8 year old that he stinks and should never shoot the ball, it becomes a self-fulfilling kind of thing, you know?  If Jimmy never shoots, he never gets better.  If he never gets better, he is never allowed to shoot.  So, Jimmy (if he sticks with the game) becomes a defensive specialist or a rebounder or whatever.  The same thing goes for relievers.  If they are never allowed to pitch in certain situations, they will never be able to pitch in those situations.  When that happens, they do not feel comfortable or are not mentally prepared to pitch in other situations so that, when they are called upon out of necessity, they fail.

About last night’s game. A mere 8 hours after I post about wanting to use the closer earlier in the game, what happens?  Our 8th inning set up men blow the game.  The frustration of seeing that happen too many times in the past is exactly what prompted me to say what I did yesterday.

I’m not saying that Lidge should have necessarily even started the 8th (although I would have preferred if he did), but certainly I would have loved to see him come in instead of Durbin.  I’m not blaming Durbin (or Manuel for using him).  He has been fantastic all year.  It’s just that it was a perfect illustration of the point I was trying to make.  Again, 25-30 years ago, every manager in the game brings in his “fireman of the year” candidate in that situation without hesitation.  That is exactly what they were in the bullpen for.  We are talking about a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 8th, runners on 1st and 3rd, nobody out, and the 3-4-5 hitters coming up.  If that is not the most crucial part of the game, then I’m missing something.  If Lidge gets us through that, even if the runner from 3rd scored, we have a 4-3 lead going to the 9th, the 6-7-8 hitters are coming up, and the next reliever starts a clean inning.

That 8th inning should be a save situation (without the reliever being required to finish the game) and Lidge should pitch it, period. Instead, Manuel keeps his biggest bullpen gun securely holstered, keeping him in reserve for a save situation that never ocurred.  We lose while  Lidge watches from the bullpen (all warmed up I might add), good night.

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