Well, I guess the top of the 6th was playable, but the bottom of the 6th wasn’t. I guess the huge puddles weren’t any indication of unfair playing conditions. I didn’t want to win the World Series in a shortened game, but I don’t want to lose it that way either.
Hamels is completely out of the equation for the rest of the series. We had all the odds in our favor, and we get a 5 1/2 inning game that eliminates our best pitcher, kills our momentum, and puts it all in a 3 1/2 inning, fake baseball game or else we get to go back to Tampa for 2 unfavorable pitching match-ups.
I don’t know who to be mad at. But I’m furious nonetheless.
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Pete, are you sure Hamels is completely out of the equation? Assuming they have a day off between games five and six, Hamels will have untill Friday to rest for a potential game seven.
Regardless, a weird game. The umpires have been terrible all series and I feel that Tampa has probably seen more of those bad calls go against them. Tonight should settle any questions concerning karma.
We were one strike away from being World Champs. Twice.
The purist in me says it not the way to win but if that ball gets by Victorino and we lose, it would count, so I’ll take the “cheap” win anyday.
On the bright side, we get four at-bats to their three in the continuation. If the team isn’t pumped for that, they deserve to go to Tampa.
just to be clear….selig said he would NOT have allowed the game to end in a 2-1 phillies victory after 5.
Bud Selig LOVES ties.
Pete – Yep, just heard that also. I can sleep better tonight knowing that wasn’t a possibility.
Agree on all points, mostly Hamels pitching under water right before the game is called in an extra half inning that should never have been played and now the Rays get to regroup and ready whoever they please to come in to pitch, properly prepared.
Question: if you lost your ticket stub are you now out of luck?
Also, you’re telling me they couldn’t have moved the game up 2 hours in lieu of a weather report? What, so the West Coast could comfortably watch this game? I am fuming.
“I don’t know who to be mad at.”
God.
Seriously, what would have made you happy in this situation, a dome? Stop it in the fourth and fifth, and you lose Hamels early. Stop it after the sixth and you had to suffer through an even worse field (because of the extra rain from the time between innings).
Real question: when did the rain start? If it was while the Rays were pitching, then playing that extra half inning just made it even as far as innings played in the rain goes.
I know you Pete and other Phillies’ fans and I know you would be bitching if you had to play the bottom of the sixth in that slop. True, it might be harder to pitch in the rain, but it’s certainly harder to hit, and run, in the rain also. Would it have been fair if Upton was thrown out at the plate because the muddy field slowed him down coming around third or made him slip?
Just taking a stab at your answer to my last question: “No, it wouldn’t have been fair, which is why it should have been stopped earlier.” But then we get back to the problem of Hamels being taken out early. So, seriously, I know you’re mad and emotional, but what could you do here? Not play at all?
By the way, Pattie LaBelle sucked last night.
Jimmy-
yes, you could have not played at all, it rained the entire night. jayson stark said it better than I did:
• They were furious that this game wasn’t stopped until Hamels had surrendered the tying run in the top of the sixth, even though the field had begun looking like a veritable Sea World attraction at least a half-hour earlier.
• They weren’t happy that it was started in the first place, since glop had already begun falling out of the sky during batting practice and the worsening weather forecast was the No. 1 topic of pregame conversation — just ahead of how many layers of clothing they were all going to have to wear to avoid frostbite.
• And, most of all, they were incensed by the whole situation — having their best-laid World Series plans steamrolled by the needless rush to play a game in conditions more suitable for the Iditarod than the most important game of their careers.
A mere one day ago, the Phillies had this Series set up with their ultimate dream scenario — one win away, their most dominating starter lined up to pitch it.
Now, one soggy, half-baked, suspended-animation debacle later, they’ve essentially wasted a Cole Hamels start.
And they’re almost certainly looking at having to deal with the terrifying prospect of facing David Price when play resumes.
The rain was expected why didn’t they move the game up instead of playing it at 8:30? And I don’t want to hear any B.S. about TV – make it work its not just “some other baseball game.”
More importantly why was the decision to not go by the rule book on how the outcome of the game will work ( Bud Selig saying “I would not have let the World Series end like that”) told to anyone but the teams? That decision to not let a game end without 9 innings was made on Saturday. It’s a little but important thing called managing expectations that MLB neglected to do for it’s fans. Even the announcers had not clue it would go down like that. But all reports I’ve heard are the Selig and both teams came to this agreement before Saturday’s game that if weather came into play they would not allow a team to win or lose without playing a full game.
Alot of the bitching, complaining and frustration by the fans could have been headed off by just disseminating that information prior to the inevitable situation occurring.
agreed, mostly angry that they didn’t move the start time up in lieu of the forecast. I mean, you play every game of the year with a 7:05 start time and now all of sudden you have to start at 8:40 while the weather is at its coldest, on a weekday? Not to mention they play the NLDS games starting at like 3:05 on a wednesday, which screws most of the normal fanbase from watching. Why change now?
whats making me more and more angry is that I keep reading that the doppler clearly showed that there was 0 chance of the rain stopping (as evidenced by how quickly they suspended the game after they delayed it) and 0 chance of the rain missing.
Bud Selig’s plan was to play the entire game in the rain. That’s just stupid.
Kind of lost in all the weather is the fact that the game is 2-2 for a very very bad, yet familiar reason.
Scott Kazmir went 4 innings and gave up 4 hits and 6 walks and the Phils had the bases loaded twice and we have are left with 2 runs. I think it’s safe to say we would all be a little more comfortable and confident if the score was 6-1 or 6-2 coming back from the delay. Ryan Howard back to his old tricks again with 2 stikes outs (the first with two runners on and 1 out) in 3 at-bats.
Another opportunity to pound this team and lock it up that goes wasted. Frustrating…
I agree with you, Dannie, that the game should have been pushed up.
This is crazy. When will the game resume? Will game 5 resume in Philly? What will this do to the Sixers home opener? I need to take frustration out on something. Let’s finish evaluating the last three NBA teams. On a bright note, the NBA season begins tonight!
Rob, that’s funny that you know exactly how many teams are left.
I say let them play anyway. Im sure everyone here has a memory from when they were young, playing you’re favorite sport in some adverse conditions. No ever stopped because of rain, it’s not like it was only raining on one side. Play the damn game, because that’s all it really is.
And games will never get pushed up, when fox is involved anyway. The want to make sure their marketing to an entire country, not just the east coast that gets off of work 3 hrs earlier.
OK. Even in the face of this mess I am going to remain positive. It has worked for me throughout this entire postseason, so I’m not going to stop now.
I am positive that Selig is an idiot.
I am positive that Selig and MLB care more about their sponsors, tv contracts, and money than they do about their players and fans.
I am positive that there is no way on god’s green earth that Selig got a favorable weather forecast from anywhere prior to last night’s game.
I am positive that Selig saying as much was simply a case of CYA.
I am positive that the game would have continued if the Rays did not score in the top of the 6th. As much as Selig said that he would not allow the world series to be determined by a rain shortened game and that he had the authority to make that call, he wanted a tie game to take him off the hook so that he would not need to make that call.
I am positive that if Selig was not going to push up the start time, he should have waited as long as necessary for this storm system to pass before allowing the game to start.
I am positive that when game 5 resumes it will still be at CBP.
I am positive that the Phils still have a 3-1 lead in the series.
I am positive that the Phils are ripping mad and they are going to come out determined to put this thing away.
I am positive that the Phils have 4 turns at bat to only 3 for the Rays.
I am positive that the Phils will start the bottom of the 6th like this: Pinch hitter, Rollins, Werth.
I am positive that Hamels can still earn the victory if the Phils score in the bottom of the 6th, hold the lead, and close out the game.
I am positive that the top of our order will get at least two shots at the Rays bullpen.
I am positive that the Rays start the top of the 7th with the bottom of their order, which means that the Phils should only face the top of their order once.
I am positive that our bullpen is better than theirs.
I am positive that Maddon has used the Rays bullpen a lot in this series; that the Phils have gotten a good look at each of the Rays relievers; and that having seen them so much will be to the Phils advantage.
I am positive that this is our year to finally break through. After watching this team and what they have done over the last few weeks, I sense that they have what it takes.
The bottom line is that I am staying positive that we still have a very good shot at finishing off the Rays in the remainder of game 5 and locking up a championship. GO PHILS!
bski I am positive you said nothing derogatory about Selig’s decision-making on Saturday night, following just-as-ridiculous after 10 o’clock start in crappy weather and Phils’ near-2 a.m. win. “There’s no crying in baseball!” I can’t believe all the whining I’m reading and hearing today (yours being implicit) about mutually-faced conditions, and the poor put-upon Phillies. Vagaries of weather bore influence. Happens all the time in an outdoor sport. If Phils are champs, they’ll get it done when play resumes. If Rays rise to the challenge, they’ll have earned the title. Fair play continues, weather permitting.
Hey, Zack. On Saturday you were talking about how you did not like Charlie Manuel’s comments and the Phillies’ attitude after game 2. You felt that they were not giving Shields the credit he deserved. Well, how do you feel about these comments from Joe Maddon:
Rays manager Joe Maddon, however, said the fact that Carlos Pena and Evan Longoria were a combined 0-for-29 with 15 strikeouts going into last night has less to do with what the Phillies were doing and more with what his hitters were – or weren’t – doing.
“I see them getting themselves out more than anything,” he said. I’m not denigrating the Phillies game plan. I think it’s wonderful. I know exactly what
they’re trying to do. From our perspective, we’re permitting them to do it.
“When you’re making outs on strikes, your kind of pitch, that’s one thing. But we’re making outs on their pitches, primarily. For the most part our guys are good at [working pitchers] and we haven’t been in this series. All of a sudden we’re coming out of our zone. We’re giving them an advantage by swinging at their pitch.
“They’ve done a great job preparing for us, [but] I just think we’ve gotten out of our game a little bit.”
I actually think Maddon’s comments are worse because, while Manuel was talking about one pitcher in one game, Maddon is talking about every Phillies pitcher during the entire series. I think our pitching has pretty much shut them down, but instead of giving our pitchers the respect they deserve, Maddon is saying that they are getting themselves out.
It’s like Dannie and I said on Saturday. Maddon is doing what Manuel and all managers do, and what I’m sure all players would want their managers to do, which is to remain positive, keep the faith in your players, focus more on what your team needs to do instead of mostly on what the other team is doing to you, and turn the things you can control into solutions going forward. There is no disrespect or lack of regard there.
In above comments, Maddon is honestly addressing his team’s uncharacteristically undisciplined batting approach during Series, not attempting to slight Phillies’ pitchers. Revealing, inoffensive quote. My opinion.
jjg…I’m not saying that last night was unfair to the Phillies at all. If I am whining at all it is because, as commissioner, Selig is supposed to protect the “integrity of the game”, if there is such a thing anymore. Instead, he allowed a world series game (not a regular season game) to be played in absolutely horrible conditions. He forced both teams to battle the elements more than battle each other, which led to some bad baseball (which is bad for baseball and certainly no way to decide a championship). He also exposed every player, again from both teams, to the very real possibility of injury.
You are correct that I did not say anything about Saturday’s game. I will admit that we did not have ideal conditions on Saturday, BUT the weather report showed that there would be a window of a few hours in which to play the game. The report was correct, the rain passed, the window arrived, and the game was played under pretty good conditions. The late start time is an issue and you have a valid point for questioning it. I would have been fine with a postponement due to the late hour, but I don’t see it as that big of an issue. It certainly pales in comparison to last night. Every radar and every forecast showed this large swath of foul weather that was moving in on us. Also, it was well known that this was not just a passing front, but a weather system we would have for a couple of days. Finally the field conditions at the beginning of game 5 were worse than those at the end of game 4.
I don’t see the decision for the late start on Saturday as being anywhere near as bad as the decision to begin, let alone continue for so long, last night’s game.
jjg…I feel the same way as you about Maddon’s comments. I was pointing this out to Zack because he felt that similar comments made by Manuel last Friday were actually a slight to Shields and the Rays.
bski In my opinion, for the good of baseball, postponements were in order both Saturday & last night. Unfortunately, money and convenience rule, once ducks are lined up.
I am really worried that this team is going to come out tight this evening. Some runs in the bottom of the 6th would really ease those concerns!
jjg...Agreed.
Will the insults never cease? I just got the latest issue of Newsweek in the mail. I found this in the “Conventional Wisdom” section in the front:
What Fall Classic?
A ho-hum World Series has CW looking to football and the return of the NBA. Can Celtics repeat? And how ’bout them Cowboys?
World Series
Philly and Tampa? Ugh. Even if it goes seven games, will likely be one to forget.
Game on Wed. Gonna be at the sixers opener at 6:00pm. Phillies better start around 9:00pm(Obama’s time). What a night. Here’s my spin.
FOX TV is thrilled to have an additional prime time game. The series actually has a controversial weather related identity. Supposedly, no one was watching except Philly and Phlorida. Thanks to their underdog story, likeable coach and the perception that the umpires are working against them, People outside of Philly will watch and root for those Rays. It’s us against them as usual for Philadelphia. The Philly phaithful are in angst waiting for another catastrophe. Our team needs the fortitude to work through this and persevere. KEEP the PHAITH! Go Phils!
Here is the GOOD news.
With the game cancelled tonight, it pushes Game 7 to Friday and gives Hamels a chance to pitch on 3 days rest. He only threw 75 pitches last night, we don’t have to worry about how it would afffect his future starts, and he said he would do it if asked.
SFW – I will be at the Sixers home opener as well so I am hoping the exact same thing. Late Phils start so I can get somewhere quick to watch after basketball.
Dannie, could the sixers put the game on in the arena?????
Sixers will move start of opener to 6pm should there be a World Series game on Oct 29
Philadelphia, Pa. – October 24, 2008 – The Philadelphia 76ers will move the start time of their home opener against the Toronto Raptors at the Wachovia Center on Wednesday, October 29 to 6 p.m. (from the scheduled 7 p.m. time), should there be a World Series game that evening.
“We will move the start time of our home opener to 6 p.m. should there be a World Series game that evening to allow our fans an opportunity to attend our game and to be able to see the Philadelphia Phillies in the World Series,” said Lara Price, Sixers Senior Vice President.
If there is a World Series game that evening, the AT&T Pavilion at the Wachovia Center will remain open after the Sixers game late into the evening for fans to watch the baseball game with half-price domestic beer specials and delicious food, including Chickie’s & Pete’s world famous Crab Fries and chicken tenders. This post-game block party is free and open to the public.
Tickets to the home opener are on sale now exclusively through ComcastTIX at SIXERS.COM or by calling 1-800-298-4200.
Tickets to 40 of the Sixers 41 home games are on sale now exclusively through ComcastTIX at SIXERS.COM or by calling 1-800-298-4200. The lone game not yet on sale is the Sixers return to their former home, the Wachovia Spectrum, on Friday, March 13, when they host the Chicago Bulls in a night to “Celebrate the Memories” at the Spectrum. These tickets are available only through game packages and season tickets. Individual tickets are expected to go on sale on January.
So they cancel the game with a 40-50% chance of rain, and not the one with the 80-90% chance. Ol Bud does it again.
Game 5 will not resume tonight, due to inclement weather, according to Major League Baseball. Instead, the final innings have been scheduled to begin at 8:37 tomorrow night, weather permitting.
kevin- fox has been pushing this episode of “House” way too hard for a measly baseball game to get in the way.
I mean, House and Dr. Cutty might kiss!!! CMON!!!!
Selig’s plan was indeed to simply play through rain and hope it would not be too bad. Dumb idea, especially in hindsight.
That said, although the game is tied, the Phillies do have the edge. They have 4 batting innings left, compared to the Rays’ 3. They have a better bullpen, and I do not agree with Stark’s charactariztion of Price as “terrifying.” No one who gives up a pinch hit HR to Eric Brunlett can be called terrifying. Additionally, the Phils can spend today comfortable at home, while the Rays are stuck in Wilmington. Let’s hope room service is terrible (and late) on top of everything!
Morty, I agree on all points. I think we were a bit full of ourselves before yesterday’s game. That will not be the case going forward in this series. It will be interesting to see how they respond.
im concerned about that the players are as fired up as some of the fans are that the game was played yesterday. you need to be calm and focused at bat, not ticked and riled up.
Now that the remainder of game 5 has been pushed back to tomorrow, I think that Montgomery, Gillick, and the rest of the Phils’ ownership and management really need to fight hard for keeping a travel day in the schedule. Having the teams finish game 5 on Wednesday night, travel immediately afterward, and play game 6 on Thursday would leave Selig and MLB open to more criticism, IMO. If the Phils could get them to keep the off day, then Hamels would be able to pitch game 7 on Saturday on his regular 4 days rest if we get to that point.
sfw-Good one, I almost fell out my chair and everyone is looking at me weird at work now.
bski-I agree that they need to push for that, hopefully that doesnt become necessary!
And Price as terrifying? Please. Early Randy Johnson was terrifying, Price not so much
Kevin, a bit confused. what was a good one? It was probably unintentional………………………. I agree about Price.
I agree about Price as well. He is good, but not terrifyingly so. Bruntlett homered off him, nuff said.
Todd Zolecki just reported on Charlie Manuel’s teleconference this afternoon. Here is part of what Manuel had to say:
“Charlie Manuel talked with reporters today during a teleconference. Here is some of what he said:
Q: Many of your players left the clubhouse last night upset. Are you concerned at all about their ability to refocus tomorrow night?
A: I know we’re going to be ready to play. We come to ballpark and we’re going to concentrate on winning tomorrow’s game. That’s all that’s important to us. That’s all we’re thinking about. We’ve got 3 1/2 innings of baseball. We get to bat four times. They get to bat three. We get 12 outs. They get nine. We are definitely coming with the mindset that we’re going to win that game. And that’s all we want to be focused on. I feel like that our team will be the same way. I’ll go around tomorrow and I’ll talk to all of our players. I’ll get a feel for what they’re thinking. And I’ll look them in the eye and talk about things and we’ll make sure that we’re ready to go. I don’t think there’s going to be any problem at all. I think that we’ve been resilient now for the last couple years, and I think we know exactly where we’re going and what we want to do. We’re going to be ready.
Manuel said he absolutely would not use one of his starters tomorrow night. He might need them for Games 6 and 7. This is going to be a bullpen game. Manuel would not say who he would pitch, and I don’t blame him. No reason to tip off the competition.”
Sorry sfw it was pete not you with the house joke. My apologies.
Hey Dannie they are going to keep the Wachovia Center open after the game to watch the phills with 1/2 price beer and food. just a thought if you didnt know already
oops sfw already posted it
The travesty is not lost on everyone…
I caught the BBTN crew on Sportcenter. Karl Ravich interviewed Selig about his decision making process in game 5. Selig said that he was thinking about the players and the fans. That’s why game 5 was played. He said that the Phillies had the same forecast (1/10 inch of rain over a 4 hour period) that he had, that the teams wanted to play, and that he gave in. Right.
I’m hoping Selig remains overly cautious and play doesn’t resume until tomorrow. It is supposed to be sunny and warmer on Thursday(not that it makes much of a difference at 9pm). It would give the field more time to dry out. It would also keep the Rays in Wilmington (I believe I read that is where they are staying) for one more day while we’re comfortable at home.
Oh, one other thing. Selig said that there would not be a travel day. So, pushing things back to tomorrow would mean that game 7 would be played on Saturday and Hamels would be available to start on regular rest (just an insurance policy).
The Hotel DuPont in Wilmington has prestige, is chock full of amenities and offers comfortable accomodations that match any in Philly. Hardship for Rays? Not.
Cole Hamels is an impressively talented and heady, goose-necked southpaw; but am still waiting for him to lay 9 golden eggs in 1 game. Should have it in him at 24, especially when he’s got his “bread & butter” pitch, the ‘change-up’ going. [Chuckled at the irony of his fastidious argot.] ‘The Prince’ should ’stretch it out’ before the adoring, grubby, stubby-fingered proles of the City of Brotherly Love. Instead, he lets us drudges eat cake after 7 innings (usually).
I think that this is the first time in Philadelphia history that all four teams are playing games that count at the same time.
JT Late October, 1980. All four sports franchises reached championship series/game that year! Probably had schedule synchronicity of some sort then.
jjg: That is terrible news to hear about the Hotel Dupont. Well, maybe the turn-down service is sporadic, and they don’t leave a mint on the pillow!
Morty The only sacrifices: It was requested by concierge that Maddon leave ear-muffed cap and Clark Kent eyewear at front desk and that Garza remain in his room, chaperoned, until check-out. The Aussie, Balfour, has been in fine form in the piano bar, especially rousing on repeated renditions of “Tie Me Kangaroo Down”; Upton eagerly requested “Slip Slidin’ Away” before retiring.
Well, it’s official. Game 5 will resume tonight. Time to wrap up a title before this world series gets any more bizarre than it has already become.
Balfour opened game in hyperventilating state, acted like 1st batter meant all the marbles, grooved 3-2 fastball to a nearly washed-up Jenkins after getting into count predicament on account of a frenzied approach; might need to build, or at least vary, his release-obscenity vocabulary for next season. Having seen Balfour’s emotional side in earlier appearance, I questioned at the start Maddon’s choice of hurler.
Baldelli made an “uncourageous” play on ball at wall, imo.
Upton’s impatient swing on 0-0 pitch in 8th that yielded a tailor-made DP was boneheaded – and nail in coffin, based on Ridge’s unbelievably perfect save season. B.J.’s a special talent though.
Maddon’s decision to let Howell bat? Overthinking/worrying about next inning 1st up lefty hitter (didn’t pan out anyway).
Playing with a ‘12-9 outs’ disadvantage to begin with, gotta send your guns to the plate.
Evan Longoria was no Matt Holliday. Carlos Pena, no ‘Big Papi’.
PHILLIES ARE WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS, deservedly so. Played as a team. With grit. When it counted.